Evidence of problem if kids not vaxed.

[CarolineF]

I'm from the UK. We have had a massive debate ongoing for the past decade on the benefits or otherwise of vaccinations.

In the mid to late 90's a huge debate started over the alleged MMR/autism link.

This resulted in 3 differing viewpoints emerging.

1. Parents who vax cos they believe the risk of their child contracting one of the diseases outweighs the risk of autism occuring.

2. Clinics appeared offering the MMR and other jabs in single injection form i.e. one month have the measles vac, the next the Mumps vac etc

3. Some parents just chose not to vax out of fear.

The result?

Vax rates in the UK have dropped dramatically. There is now a serious problem occurring in schools and universities surrounding the recurrence of measles and mumps in particular. Children have died or become quite seriously ill :thumbsdown:

A new campaign to persuade parents to vax is up and running and few drs or paeds will hold back their views if parents decide not to vax.

That news is not good, and could easily be repeated here in Oz.

Just thought I would add that into the pot. These diseases have not been wiped out. We should not forget that with the popularity of air travel and migration etc more and more people are being exposed to supposed extinct diseases.

I debated about the single jab option, but decided that I could not justify risking my daughter's health by delaying. She has a heart problem (congenital) but I am still glad I took option 1.

Circ? Not for me, i respect it for religious reasons but cannot see the benefit for any other reason. JMO:ecomcity:

My view is each to their own.

[CarolineF]

Cos I am new to this I have posted a thread on Vaccs in the circumcision thread!!!! I was reading an old but heated thread on it.

Don't know how to cut and paste it into here but some may think it useful info when making a decision. Its about the effect of non-vacc on children in the UK.

Cheers to all:D

[Link to post added by moderator : http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?p=294714#post294714]

[Chickadee]

Caroline, I've moved your other thread out of the circumcision section for you and merged it into this one. You may want to modify or delete your now 2nd post to reflect that :)

[CarolineF]

Thanks for that Martha. You are a star.:yelclap:

[the_queen]

Just wanting to check: are you implying that "non-vaxers" are of the belief that diseases such as mumps and measles have been wiped out, and therefore that is why they don't vaccinate their babies??

Or are you saying that some parents see one dodgy news report, and then make a snap decision about their child's immunological health???

:confused:


I am certainly aware of the dangers of diseases such as mumps, measles, etc. I would never EVER take lightly any kind of decision about my child's health.

For me, the issue is about risk assessment, and also "what is the lesser of two evils?".


I am honestly interested in the statistics regarding what you said about recent mumps and measles outbreaks in the UK. Can you please post some numbers/studies, or at least a link to a website where I can find this out for myself?

Like I said, I do not take the vax decision lightly AT ALL, and am very interested in reading not only the "anti" literature but also the "pro" literature. The only way to make an informed decision is to be informed about the whole issue.

[Seekrit]

1. Parents who vax cos they believe the risk of their child contracting one of the diseases outweighs the risk of autism occuring.
I will vax because I think that the risk of autism is a load of ****. Not because I think that risks are outweighed.

[CarolineF]

Yes, Seekrit, you are right and that is a 4th category. When I was typing it I put 4, then lost the plot half way through and could not remember the 4th (DOH!!!) Hormones again. Well, that's my excuse.

As for stats - I can't remember the website, probably the BBC some time ago. But before we arrived here in Feb 2005 they were something like (going by a BBC report)

Govts target for vaccinations: 95%
Current Vaccinations rates: in 2005 rose to 81% up from the year before that fell to below 80%

one article, only slightly on point was:

www.news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4758062.stm

I shall check the whole bbc web site cos they are really good, and independent.

If I find somehting else I shall note it.:detective:

I am not saying that those who don't vaccinate automatically believe the diseases have been wiped out.....but some do believe that, or believe the risks to be so remote that they will not be affected.

It is very much a personal decision, its just I don't see it as a decision that is difficult for me.....I have no doubt that Vaccs is the way to go. JMO not a criticism of anyone else.

[CarolineF]

Just a few more articles: If you can't get the link I have given the name of the article so that you can do a google search and find it.

I hope they help a bit.

1. Mumps epidemic hits young people
www. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4235453.stm

2. MMR immunisation rate falls again - 23/9/04
www.news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3683930.stm

3. Cases of Mumps Soaring across the UK
www.news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4539887.stm

4. Rapid Increase in cases of Mumps
www.news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4384189.stm

These are just a few.

A search on the health section of the BBC website under MMR will probably bring them up.

I did not realise that if a man/boy gets mumps it could make them infertile!!!!! Yikes!!!:eek:

[the_queen]

That link didn't work Caroline. :)




There are probably some people who just blindly "refuse to vaccinate" based on one article in a tabloid, or one story on a news show. But then again, there are some people who switch their baby to formula because they are told one piece of ridiculous mis-information about the quality of their breastmilk. That doesn't mean that every mother who has been forced to formula feed is ignorant and suggestible. I'm certainly not comparing feeding options to vaccination options - just using it as an example. Generalisations made an argument less credible.

True, some people believe the risks to be so remote that they will not be affected; but even that statement is a little broad. Someone who has made an informed decision does not only consider the risks of the disease; they also consider the risks of the vaccine. I don't just look at disease statistics, I also look at vaccine ingredients. I don't just look at how many children caught the disease, I also look at why they caught the disease, and how my child can be prevented from catching the disease. I don't just look at anecdotal evidence, I consider research and studies on both sides of the argument.


I agree Caroline - it is very much a personal decision, one that each family makes in the best interest of thier child/ren.

[the_queen]

We posted at the same time - I will check out those links now, thank you :)

[CarolineF]

I don't disagree with you one bit! I'm not generalising broadly...really. There is so much info out there and it can be a confusing decision for some people to make. Nobody wants to do something that could potentially harm their child.

I know this decision is made either way with the best of intentions.

Re: the links - it will need a google search on the article names - I'm really not very proficient on computers - so sorry! Or go to the bbc.co.uk websites health section.

All I am doing is pointing out the effect in another jurisdiction. :ecomcity:

[jessgray]

i vaccinated my DS who is 1 today and i think the risk of not vaccinating is more worrisome then vaccinating. just this weekend int he hearld son it said there is a nation wide alert for germal measles becasue a group of children linked to a tour group had contracted it and werent vaccinated.
i understand my DS may get some illness but surely a mild case is better then not having somethign to stop a severe one JMO

[the_queen]

I did not realise that if a man/boy gets mumps it could make them infertile!!!!! Yikes!!!:eek:

Sounds scary. But then again, so does this statement: "If I drive my car, I could get hit by a truck." It's too general, isn't it?! There's a lot of variables which could make the outcome swing one way or the other.


http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/pink/mumps.pdf


Orchitis (testicular inflammation) is the most common complication in postpubertal males. It occurs in as many as 50% of postpubertal males, usually after parotitis, but it may precede it, begin simultaneously, or occur alone. It is bilateral in approximately 30% of affected males.

There is usually abrupt onset of testicular swelling, tenderness, nausea, vomiting, and fever. Pain and swelling may subside in 1 week, but tenderness may last for weeks. Approximately 50% of patients with orchitis have some degree of testicular atrophy, but sterility is rare.

[CarolineF]

Again, I don't disagree.....its just a discussion!:D

[the_queen]

:) I don't mean to turn it into a debate!

[shed]

I have had german measles. I got a rash and felt a bit fluey for about a week. I got it when I was about 19.

I missed the vaccine because I wagged school that day. I have natural immunity now and the disease was hardly a blip on the radar.

I have had chicken pox as well. When I was little. In the old days your mother used to want you to get it over and done with so you wouldn't get it when you were older and it was more dangerous. So I have natural immunity for that as well. Nearly everyone I know in their thirties had chicken pox as a kid.

Some of these childhood diseases aren't all that bad to get and then you have natural immunity. Some of the vaccines last less than ten years, which is effectively delaying your susceptibility until you're older and some of these diseases are life threatening when you're older.

So its self fulfilling to say that some of these diseases are life threatening, because some of the kids who are being immunised now will catch the disease as an adult, and some of them will die from it. Causing people to fear what was once considered a relatively harmless childhood disease.

Just my opinion. More than happy to be "re-informed".

[Oscar's mum]

I did not realise that if a man/boy gets mumps it could make them infertile!!!!! Yikes!!!:eek:

I thought chicken pox could do the same thing yet we never used to vaccinate against that!;)

[shed]

I have never heard that about chicken pox.

All I have ever heard or seen is people who have a little dent scar here and there. A pock mark.

[reAllytee]

My best fried had chicken pox when she was 18yrs & became seriously ill from it & was in bed for 3mths from it & at one stage nearly lost her life due to it.
Its easy to say "oh they are childhood illnesses that we never used to vaccinate against so whats the fuss now?".
We never vaccinated against meningiccol (sp? sorry not really with it at the moment ) but look at all the damage it has done to kids over the many years it has run wild. Just because we dont hear much about these diseases nowadays doesnt mean they are harmless.
I have never had the measles, mumps or chicken pox & im going to have mine done in a few weeks because once bubs goes to school there is a likelihood i will come into contact with it & im not prepared to risk it once im pg. Luckily i had rubella as a child & yes lucky for me i only had a really bad rash for 3wks but was off school for a month with it as i was so weak but my cousin who had it was a lot older & spent some time in hospital from it.
Some kids come away from it no dramas but a lot are carriers also which pass it along to many others.
My mum was the only child within her area to get polio at the time but what she suffered & possibly allowed other kids to become carriers at the time due to it not being diagnosed at first.
Im sure my grandparents thought the polio epidemic was all a bit of fuss until it was their own child that became infected.