In the old days

[heymamma]

Hi all,

I was speaking to my sister yesterday & she was telling me how she was at the butcher & her Son(3.5) was being naughty & smashing his hands on the glass & she told him to stop 3-4 times & warned him if he didnt stop he would get a smack. Anyway he didnt stop ..so the butcher came up to him & said " Hey you stop that listen to your mother!!" & he still kept going...so when she went to grab him to stop him ..he took off out of the shop...she chased him & dragged him back into the butcher & smacked his bottom twice & said "Now stand there next to that trolley & dont let go young man or i will leave you here if you want to run off!!" All the people in the butcher's said "yeah good on you love!!" they said thats what kids need these days...there is to many parents out there that dont smack there kids & thats why children are so bad these days. I do agree ..i think there is to many people out there that dont smack there kids & the kids believe they have the power. I did say to her though...that i dont smack my kids in public as i have heard of kids being taken away from the parents because the wrong person seen it. Dont get me wrong i dont beat my children...but if Alyssa or phoenix does something wrong they get a smack on the hand or butt. Sometimes the naughty spot isnt enough.

[sopolicha]

So, is what you are saying if we all took to smacking all children a lot more, they would be better behaved? :confused:

[razzle]

It makes me think - "how did the kid get to be so naughty in the first place?"

[rynosmum]

I believe that it shouldn't be a 'smack or no smack' discussion.

To generalise that children who aren't smacked, believe that they have the power over their parents may be an observation of some, but not all. We have all seen kids who get away with all sorts of things and their parents have no control. We have also all seen people who are way too heavy handed and deal out severe physical punishment on their children where it isn't warranted.

IMO, if you parent well and are in tune with your child, your child will behave out of respect. I do not smack my son at all but I believe I parent him well. He always says please, thank you and excuse me. He doesn't touch things that I ask him not to, he doesn't throw tantrums when he doesn't get something in a store.

If he's tired and I see the signs of that, I take him home - it's that simple. Respect for him. Respect breeds respect.

Smacking should never be an excuse for parenting. If you smack your children, that is your business but to allude that children who aren't are unruly, that is an unfounded comment IMO.

[the_queen]

It makes me think - "how did the kid get to be so naughty in the first place?"

I agree.
:)

[ButterflyKisses]

I believe that it shouldn't be a 'smack or no smack' discussion.

To generalise that children who aren't smacked, believe that they have the power over their parents may be an observation of some, but not all. We have all seen kids who get away with all sorts of things and their parents have no control. We have also all seen people who are way too heavy handed and deal out severe physical punishment on their children where it isn't warranted.

IMO, if you parent well and are in tune with your child, your child will behave out of respect. I do not smack my son at all but I believe I parent him well. He always says please, thank you and excuse me. He doesn't touch things that I ask him not to, he doesn't throw tantrums when he doesn't get something in a store.

If he's tired and I see the signs of that, I take him home - it's that simple. Respect for him. Respect breeds respect.

Smacking should never be an excuse for parenting. If you smack your children, that is your business but to allude that children who aren't are unruly, that is an unfounded comment IMO.
Katrina, sounds like you and I went to the same parenting school

[draught]

I agree with Rynosmum.

Whether you smack your child or not is your own business but suggesting that more children should be smacked is a wide generalisation. It presumes that children these days are not well behaved, that parents are doing a bad job, and that other people know what is going on in each situation and are in a position to judge it. If my child has a tantrum in public because she is overtired, unwell, hungry, or overstimulated - all of which are in MY control, not hers, and people suggest that I should smack her to stop the tantrum I would be horrified. Why should she be punished for my error in judgement in taking her out in the first place? Having said that, if she misbehaves because she is testing the boundaries I ensure that the boundaries are enforced - without smacking. I am particularly opposed to smacking in public as there is the humiliation factor on top of the discipline.

I am also aware that some children who are truly badly behaved in public, at school, etc are physically abused and beaten and yelled at by their parents - which begs the question - are they misbehaving because of the beating or are they beaten because of the misbehaving.

Forget the "old days" - parents weren't perfect then either - why do you think there is such a lot of money to be made in psychotherapy these days?

All you can do is parent as best you know how, and ignore the judgements of others.

[shed]

Maybe they were just trying to be nice and let her know that they weren't going to report her or anything. It might not have been that they were the all-out smacking brigade, maybe it was just in that particular situation they saw that she was doing the best she could at the time and that its hard enough without trying to control a kid AND trying to avoid being judged for whatever you do about it, and they just wanted to let her know that, in their clumsy way?

I was in the supermarket last night and there was this little darling boy, so cute, and his mum was chatting away to him and then all of a sudden he started up a tantrum because he wanted something opened before it was paid for. She reasoned with him and was trying to distract him but he just continued until he was throwing a full-on wobbly.

Not one person in the room threw a disapproving glance her way. Everyone either just ignored it or gave her one of those half smile things that people do. She didn't smack him, and no one made out like she should. So maybe it was like that, except this lady did smack and no one said she shouldn't, but because its more sensitive because she actually did, then they decided to back her up with their supportive comments?

does that make sense? Its not a pro-smack or an anti-smack statement, its a don't judge the parent in their parenting decision' statement.

[Chickadee]

My mother used to be a primary school teacher, in the 50s to 70s in Canada. She used to have to give the strap on her kids hands and hated it. I can remember being spanked once, probably I was 7 or 8 and deserved it. I hated her for it, she went and cried to herself. I don't see that there was anything good about it.

[Pixie]

I disagree we should be smacking our children to make them better behaved.....where is logic in that?

My mother use to beat me senseless at times in my teen years (for no reason)..hence I will never smack my children...

I see it this way and I have said this on many other threads in regards to how people disaplin their children.

You're the parent, therefore the authorative figure, your children should respect that and verbal communication should be enough.

I'd also like to add I have nothing against people who smack their kids, it's their child and their style of parenting. I am just saying what I plan to do.

violence and aggression shouldn't be fought with the same behaviour

excuse my spelling lol I am typing one handed :D

[Ana Gram]

If he's tired and I see the signs of that, I take him home - it's that simple. Respect for him. Respect breeds respect.



This is something I simply cannot do. If I have a lot of things to do and DD is starting to misbehave because she is tired, I am certainly not taking her home! I still have things to do which don't get done unless I do them. I might be tired too but I don't get to throw a tantrum. I am getting DD used to the fact that when you are an adult you still have to do stuff you don't feel like doing.

[zactyl]

heymamma,
If your sister has always parented in that way, and your nephew is 3.5 and behaving like that, might I suggest that it's not working and she try another method?

[Jem]

Just doing a bit of surfing, and came accross some kids points of views on smacking:

I think smacking is right if it doesn't leave a mark. After all I was smacked and I haven't turned out scarred - if anything it taught me discipline. If smacking is banned I predict this country being over-run with anti-social youth.

Mimi, 14, London

I don't think they should smack children. There are other ways of punishment but parents know that is a result of anger. Most children who get punished don't do the thing because they know it's wrong - it is because they're scared of being hurt again.

Jessica, 15, Wokingham

Smacking makes little children scared of their parents and makes older ones hate them. Children might think if the parents can smack them the kids can do it back. I say NO to smacking. No no no. And anyone who tolerates it needs to start thinking.

Sarah, 11, Belfast

I don't think that children should be smacked but if they do something bad then they should be punished.

Lou, 10, Birmingham

I don't think smacking children is a good idea. The children may then abuse their children when they are older. I think people should watch Super Nanny for ideas.

Laura, 14, Bridlington

I think it depends on what the kid has done, and how hard the smack is.

Terri, 13, Winsford

You shouldn't smack children, even if they are being naughty - you should just simply tell them off, and send them to their room. It's just not right.

Nosheen, 12, Accrington

Smacking children of all ages should be classed as abuse, there are many other methods of punishment that can be used. Such abuse may have mental/emotional effect in the future.

Aminah, 15, Oxford

NO there should be a law or a campaign to stop it.

Jack, 10, Dudley

I agree - I think there are better ways to punish children. But I think that under the circumstances if children are always abusing their parents and the parents smack them once or twice then that's fine but if it's constant then it should be stopped.

Rhia, 14, Sheffield

I think it is wrong to smack children, even if it gets to the very worst they should only punish them to do something suitable for their age.

Candy, 10, Milton Keynes

No - if someone did it to an adult, they could be arrested, why should it be ok for adults to do to children. Parents should find other ways of punishing kids because when their kids get older, they won't be able to do it anymore, and they won't know how to punish them. I just don't agree with it.

Becky, 14, Lytham St Anne's

I think smacking shouldn't be banned. Small children need to be punished if they did something wrong, or they won't learn.

Lizzy, 15, Edinburgh

At the end of the day there are better ways to punish children; and better ways to teach them. Adults are our influences so what are they teaching us by smacking?

Leighann, 14, Solihull

I think that smacking your kid for no reason is abuse, but if you smack them for being bad that's ok. I agree that parents should smack their children if they're bad.

Mariah, 13, Germany

Yes, but not if it leaves marks for a long time.

Jenny, 11, London

I don't think it's very nice for parents to smack children because it hurts a lot. It's abuse and I don't think it's right ! There MUST be other ways for children to be taught the differences between right and wrong!

Zoe, 12, Devon

I think smacking should be allowed as long as there is no mark left, that it isn't hard and that parents cannot do it all the time.

Ana, 11, London

Adults shouldn't smack children because it makes them angry and more likely to be bad again. Also kids have rights too.

Abby, 11, Radcliffe

I think that smacking should be banned - no-one should have the right to smack anyone, let alone unprotected children, whatever they have done. There are other ways to punish children humanely.

Katie, 12, Swindon

I agree with a ban, I think there are better ways of punishing a child, smacking is a bad example.

Becky, 13, Cheshire

They shouldn't really smack them. They should just punish them if they are bad.

Leelah, 13, Tunbridge Wells

I think hitting kids is wrong...mums and dads may of been hit when they where young but it does not give them the right to do it to their kids.

Lewis, 11, Upperlands

They should and they should not. It all depends on what they have done wrong and how bad it is.

Abbey, 9, Sheffield

Children, whatever their age should have the same protection as adults. You don't see adults getting that punishment.

Aisha, 13, Slough

It's wrong!

Nathan, 7, Skegness

I think children should be smacked as it has disciplined children in years gone by and just look at the way today's kids are. There is no discipline and this starts at home, but also the parents no longer look after the kids because they have to go back to work so strangers are looking after them.

Joanne, 14, Surrey

I think it's perfectly fine because the parent is the boss.

Jamie, 14, Boise

I don't believe in smacking because won't it make the children more angry??

Martin, 11, Nottingham

NO!!!! Parents should not smack children because it is not nice at all and children may think that their parents don't love them anymore.

Laura, 10, Abertillery

I think it is totally unfair that parents should smack kids. Adults should respect the fact that kids are humans as well!

Miranda, 9, Clifton

No. An adult can't smack another adult so why can an adult smack a child. Anyway where do you draw the line at lightly?

Lily-May, 10, Bristol

What is the point of smacking children it just makes us want to hit back.

Struan, 11, Edinburgh

It is not fair. If adults have a ban on smacking each other, why can't children have a ban on being smacked!

Rosie, 10, Reading

Smacking should be banned because it hurts and gives children the wrong idea.

Zoe, 11, Redhill

I'm still smacked and I think it's not right. My parents think that they are right and I'm in the wrong because I'm a child. Smacking is NOT a good punishment.

Sam, 13, Birmingham

Smacking YOUNG children is only a bit acceptable but not older children as you can explain the situation with older children but not younger children. I also want to say I don't like it when I am standing in front of child who's getting smacked!!!! I start crying myself!!!!

Naseerah, 12, Blackburn

No, because kids won't learn like that - they will just be afraid of their parents.

Stassy, 12, Austin

I don't think that smacking should be allowed as it encourages violence. With violence taught to children it's no wonder that people are afraid to walk the streets alone.

Matthew, 14, Camborne

I think smacking kids should be completely banned. Adults tell us we can't use violence but they can. If adults are going to have rules they should stick by them too.

Emma, 13, Oakworth

I think in some cases smacking can be right, but only if it doesn't leave a mark.

Elouise, 13, Thatcham

I think smacking should be banned as it's not fair on the kids. If kids were to smack adults then it would be a different story.

Abbie, 8, Fife

I don't think smacking is a good idea, because if children get smacked at home then they'll just smack at school as well, won't they? A small tap is alright but I think telling-off is better than smacking.

Summer, 10, Bournemouth

Smacking children makes them angry and be more naughty and it teaches them to smack other people.

Anna, 11, Shropshire

I think smacking should be allowed. It teaches discipline and stops the anti-social behaviour problem and will teach children respect.

Heather, 11, Edinburgh

I think parents SHOULD be allowed to smack their children - up to a point. I was smacked until I was about 9 but then I was punished in other ways. Smacking is the only way to discipline a small child...you can't explain it to them.

Alice, 13, Broadstairs

I think parents should be able to tap their child lightly if the child has done something wrong because young children sometimes don't understand their parents if they just yell at them.

Hayley, 13, Newcastle-under-Lyme

I don't think that smacks that hurt should be allowed but I think little taps should be allowed. After all you only get it if you deserved it!

Mehreen, 11, Accrington

I hate smacks.

Rex, 8, Coventry

Smacking shouldn't happen because I think shouting at your kids is enough and it should send a sign to the kids brains telling them not to do it again.

Katy, 10, Preston

I think parents should not smack their children.

Rowen, 10, Liverpool

Parents always say that if you get in a fight at school you should tell someone. But who do we tell when out parents hit us???

Leah, 12, Maidstone

I don't think parents should be allowed to smack their children because it hurts and only teaches them more violence. If adults want to discipline their children they should do it by taking away their privileges.

Emma, 11, Unknown

I think that smacking is unfair. Children are always told not to use violence so why should adults be allowed?

David, 13, Portsmouth

[suemp]

sorry but i have to reply. how could anyone say the kid is behaving that way still ,so obviously heymammas sister is obviously doing things wrong. its not up to us to judge. 3.5 year olds still chuck tantrums regardless of the way they are disciplined. my son is going thru a saying "shut up" stage and believe me i have tried every discipline in the world to stop it. the only thing that has worked FOR ME is to scare him with the thought of washing his mouth out with soup. this said im not going to carry a bar of soap with me shopping , so if he was to say it to me in public am i a bad mum,discipling him all wrong, because he is 4 and still misbehaving. im a smacker (not an abuser) but i dont call anyones ways of disciplineing wrong, so would prefer the same non judgemental attitude back.

[polony]

I think choosing whether or not to smack your child is a very personal decision. I don't think there is any right or wrong answer to this.

The only thing I think though is that the smacking should only be used as a last resort and it should be a smack, not a belting.

I was smacked and it did make me think about my actions and what was right and wrong. My dad used to take my hand and count to three and on three he would smack my hand. The thing was, he wouldn't even touch my hand, as he had his cupped around and would hit his own hand. I was so scared and sorry for what I did that I would cry anyway and then realise what I did and apologise.

I wasn't naughty often. And I knew when I was being naughty! :devil6:

From my experience, I will smack ONLY as a last resort but even then, it won't be hard. As someone said, respect breeds respect. I totally agree with that. But sometimes trying to do just that doesn't get results.

What get me angry is parents seeing their child act up and they say over and over in such a nice tone "don't do that dear". What child is going to listen to that or even respect it? You can use your voice to enforce discipline without yelling. Being a push-over parent causes naughty children IMO.

I don't like getting into these discussions as they are such a personal thing to decide, but felt I should say something. Please just take what I have said as my own opinion. I apologise if you do not agree.

The choice is ultimately yours.

[SassyMummy]

I'm very "each to their own" with the smacking thing. I can see how some people feel the need to do it, and why others don't.

IMO, disciplining your children is about what gets results. For some it might be banning TV (that was the one I dreaded...lol...I love TV!), "grounding" or using a "points" system. For others, it might be smacking. There is a major difference between smacking and beating IMO.

Smacking with "weapons" is a bit scary though, I must admit. My mother used the "wooden spoon" for a while, but we no longer cared about that so she moved on to the "feather duster handle". THAT STUNG SO BADLY! One whack with that and we'd do our best to stay out of trouble. The belt is a frightening thing though...at least I remember being scared of it (I think I only got it once). I think open palms are fine, and not a beating, just a smack or two.

I do agree though, that years ago kids were much better behaved. It MAY be because smacking was the thing to do, not something parents were shunned for doing. If it IS because of smacking, then it could be because smacking works for that child, or because the child is AFRAID to be bad because they're terrified of the punishment. It could be either way - but that's the individual child.

I was never too scared about getting smacked...it didn't work for me, so my parents used different methods. It was the ONLY thing that would work on my brother, however, who is super-stubborn and would never fear any punishment other than a smack.

I don't necessarily think smacking teaches children to solve problems with violence. If a child whinges and the mother simply responds with a smack, then perhaps it does. But I'm sure many mothers who smack try to talk to their child beforehand..and only after all else fails do they smack.

Anyway, if smacking teaches a child that violence is okay, then there are a lot of other problems with other discliplinary techniques too.

Parents who don't use punishment, but only focus on the good might teach their child that you'll get rewarded in life if you do good, but being bad holds no consequence.

Parents who say "If you do that then I won't let you watch tv" or whatever may teach their children that blackmailing is perfectly acceptable.

Parents who say, "If you behave for Mummy now, then I'll give you a chocolate later" may be teaching their children that bribery is fine, or that every time you behave WELL there will be a reward.

There are potential problems in all forms of parenting, IMO.

I do believe that all parents should choose what method works best for them, but I also believe that punishment is NEEDED. It's a fact of life. You rob a bank, you go to jail. You swear at a teacher, you get detention. You have unprotected sex with a skank, you run the risk of getting an STD/pregnancy.

We also live in a world where good behaviour is an expectation, and not something that always deserves a reward. The reward often is, that there are no bad consequences. IMO, this is what we have to teach our kids, because it's just the way the world is, like it or not.

[Ana Gram]

As for a tired child I might not necessarily drop everything and go home but I might let them sleep in their push chair or go to a coffee shop with comfy napworthy loungechairs and read the papers they have there for half an hour whilst the child had a short rest. Even grab a cuppa and go sit in the car. I know how dreadful I feel when I'm tired and I will sometimes just leave things undone and go for a nap. They're still there when I awake refreshed but no harm has been done by delaying.




Sorry but that wouldn't work for me. If I have stuff to do, I am not going to wait until my toddler is in the mood to not make a fuss. If she is tired she can sleep in the stroller while I get the things I needed to do done. I'm certainly not going to sit in the car and wait for her highness to be ready.

And you could certainly try and embarrass me if you saw me smack my daughter in public, but I very much doubt it would work.

Bottom line is you do what works for YOUR child as YOU are the only one who has to look after them 24/7.

[bronny-jane]

when i was smacked by my parents, i felt fear, degraded, and unloved....how could anyone who loves you hurt you.

i have smacked my children, but try not to, and havent for a while, ive noticed that they think its ok to hit or smack someone else, because mummy does it.

[Funkychicken]

I'm not sure from reading this thread if it is a debate about smacking or not smacking or as was said in the original post, more about 'children these days'. I was brought up in the smack your children generation. It was what it was and that's what we as children knew to be the punishment for wrong behaviour. There was also a wooden spoon at times which grew to need only be a 'shake' of the utensils drawer to quiet us.
The next generation which probably includes quite a lot of the younger mums on bubhub was more about acknowledging the good things children do and focusing on positive reactions to thr right behaviour instead of only responding to naughty behaviour. I for one think this has been a huge leap forward in parenting-BUT-have we gone too far? It seems we have developed a whole lot of narcissistic teenagers who feel that they are perfect in every way without having actually worked for it. I don't mean in a job sense, more that they have been praised their whole lives for everything from a scribbly picture to puting away a dish. They haven't done any hard yards to get to where they are-it has been handed to a lot of them by parents who, with good intentions, are afraid to discipline their children in any negative way. Parents who are worried that their children won't love them if they don't provide for them every thing they ask for. These children will be in dire trouble when it comes time to actually work for a living. Employers aren't as forgiving as parents and many younger peolpe starting out in the workforce just can't cope with being told what to do. We have had numerous people work for us who have statements such as "But that's not my job" or "I can't do that in case I hurt myself" or "I'm entitiled to x amount of sick leave and I haven't used any so I'm taking a day off." And one of the most common "But it's 5o'clock and this is when my wages are paid to so I can't help you finish up."
These are examples of people who have been completely cotton woolled from the reality of the world and have no idea how to fend for themselves.
Boundaries have to be in place if a child is to feel safe. They need to be aware of the consequences of their actions and if they choose to 'do it anyway' they also have to cop the results, be it a smack, timeout, or other form of discipline. There doesn't have to be long drawn out arguments with children-this achieves squat.
This is not intended to offend anyone, it is just a bit of harsh reality. We are the adults in the relationship and this means we have a duty to make our children feel safe in the world by instilling in them a sense of right and wrong and the consequences for what decisions they choose to make. These are called boundaries.
OK, I've had my rant... I'll go now.:D

[Jem]

I'm not sure from reading this thread if it is a debate about smacking or not smacking or as was said in the original post, more about 'children these days'. I was brought up in the smack your children generation. It was what it was and that's what we as children knew to be the punishment for wrong behaviour. There was also a wooden spoon at times which grew to need only be a 'shake' of the utensils drawer to quiet us.
The next generation which probably includes quite a lot of the younger mums on bubhub was more about acknowledging the good things children do and focusing on positive reactions to thr right behaviour instead of only responding to naughty behaviour. I for one think this has been a huge leap forward in parenting-BUT-have we gone too far? It seems we have developed a whole lot of narcissistic teenagers who feel that they are perfect in every way without having actually worked for it. I don't mean in a job sense, more that they have been praised their whole lives for everything from a scribbly picture to puting away a dish. They haven't done any hard yards to get to where they are-it has been handed to a lot of them by parents who, with good intentions, are afraid to discipline their children in any negative way. Parents who are worried that their children won't love them if they don't provide for them every thing they ask for. These children will be in dire trouble when it comes time to actually work for a living. Employers aren't as forgiving as parents and many younger peolpe starting out in the workforce just can't cope with being told what to do. We have had numerous people work for us who have statements such as "But that's not my job" or "I can't do that in case I hurt myself" or "I'm entitiled to x amount of sick leave and I haven't used any so I'm taking a day off." And one of the most common "But it's 5o'clock and this is when my wages are paid to so I can't help you finish up."
These are examples of people who have been completely cotton woolled from the reality of the world and have no idea how to fend for themselves.
Boundaries have to be in place if a child is to feel safe. They need to be aware of the consequences of their actions and if they choose to 'do it anyway' they also have to cop the results, be it a smack, timeout, or other form of discipline. There doesn't have to be long drawn out arguments with children-this achieves squat.
This is not intended to offend anyone, it is just a bit of harsh reality. We are the adults in the relationship and this means we have a duty to make our children feel safe in the world by instilling in them a sense of right and wrong and the consequences for what decisions they choose to make. These are called boundaries.
OK, I've had my rant... I'll go now.:D

pheew.. thanks for writing my thoughts also... saves me having to do it...lol
well worded. :thumbsup: :yelclap:

[rynosmum]

..., more that they have been praised their whole lives for everything from a scribbly picture to puting away a dish. They haven't done any hard yards to get to where they are-it has been handed to a lot of them by parents who, with good intentions, are afraid to discipline their children in any negative way.

All due respect as you make a number of valid points about current workplace behaviour....but you can bet on this, my son absolutely gets appreciation and cuddles for a scribbly picture and he will ALWAYS get appreciation and a thnak you for putting away a dish, or anything else. These are positive actions deserving an equally positive appreciation.

My parents brought me up the same way - I still get absolute positive reinforcement for even the tiniest of things. But they also taught me the value of money early on, I always had after-school jobs and earned my own money (but sometimes they would add in some of their own as I had worked so hard on something). I was always shown that as long as I did my best, that was what mattered. The handful of times I was smacked is discussed with regret - we all remember each incident and although there was no harm done, agree that nothing was solved by it.

Active positive parenting should not be compared similarly to parents who are afraid to discipline. I learnt right from wrong and so has my son. Active positive parenting develops good children with empathy and understanding as things are discussed with them. I have no problem discussing cause and effect with my two year old and it's amazing how early his understanding happened.

I personally don't believe smacking is warranted and that is my opinion. It is also my opinion that if you positively parent your child, you may not get to the point that you need to smack.

[Funkychicken]

All due respect as you make a number of valid points about current workplace behaviour....but you can bet on this, my son absolutely gets appreciation and cuddles for a scribbly picture and he will ALWAYS get appreciation and a thnak you for putting away a dish, or anything else. These are positive actions deserving an equally positive appreciation.

My parents brought me up the same way - I still get absolute positive reinforcement for even the tiniest of things. But they also taught me the value of money early on, I always had after-school jobs and earned my own money (but sometimes they would add in some of their own as I had worked so hard on something). I was always shown that as long as I did my best, that was what mattered. The handful of times I was smacked is discussed with regret - we all remember each incident and although there was no harm done, agree that nothing was solved by it.

Active positive parenting should not be compared similarly to parents who are afraid to discipline. I learnt right from wrong and so has my son. Active positive parenting develops good children with empathy and understanding as things are discussed with them. I have no problem discussing cause and effect with my two year old and it's amazing how early his understanding happened.

I personally don't believe smacking is warranted and that is my opinion. It is also my opinion that if you positively parent your child, you may not get to the point that you need to smack.
Hi Katrina,
I didn't mention more on the positive reinforcment of children's behaviour as I thought I said enough. I agree entirely about praising our children for good behaviour and for the beautiful things they present to us, in fact we do this all the time. It is a huge part of our own parenting style. The more positive reinforcement, the less of the not so nice behaviour. Just trying to point out that we don't necassarily have to put our children on pedastals to make them feel good about themselves. Also I wasn't condoning smacking as a discipline, just using an example of what some parents may do.:)

[Funkychicken]

I beleive teachers are undermining what I am trying to install eg gov produced booklet my daughter brought home stated that sex is legal from the age of 10 as long as both people were consenting and within 2 years age difference, alcohol can be leagally consumed at any age as long as you don't buy it or consume in public and smoking is also legal as long as you didn't purchase them. Arghhhh

Spend more time with your kids, communicate and continually question them, where, what, why, when, where and how. I even ring other parents just to make sure my kid is there and what I've been told is actually happening right at that moment.
What the???? I can't believe our government have handed over the decisions as to whether to have sex or drink and smoke to our children!! That is disgusting-I'm absolutely sure the majority of parents will guide their children through these decisions and not allow some piece of paper to state when is the right age for these things, but how much power will some of these children believe thay have because of this? *More than Arrggghhhh*

You're spot on with the communication issue-where, why ,how , when. It's something Steve Biddulph refers to in his talks about spending time with our children. The years of 0-7 are primarily the mother-child years, the 7-14 age is when the father's role steps up and 14 -21 is when parents both step up and get more involved in their children's lives-keeping the lines of communication open and allowing the child/teenager to grow knowing they can come to their mum/dad to discuss issues without fear of judgement.:)

[Ana Gram]

Ummm, they're a child why put adult concerns on their shoulders. Comes around quick enough as it is. Teenagers studying VCE are at their highest risk of self harm due to the pressures they feel parents, teachers and society now places on them. I remember my senior years at school as being fun and only the odd thoughts about what was ahead ie in choosing subjects.
This risk of self harm is getting younger and younger with each generation so something is very, very wrong.

Yes everyone has to do stuff they don't feel like doing eg going to visit smelly grandparents, cleaning your room but hey keep it to kids stuff and if something can be put off to accomodate a child's tiredness that can quickly turn to crankiness then why cause yourself and the child more stress.


I'm not putting adult concerns on her shoulders, all she has to do is sit in the stroller. I don't care if she chucks a wobbly and screams the entire time, I still have to do what I have to do. I can't exactly turn around the the landlord and say "Sorry I couldn't pay rent today, my toddler was feeling tired and didn't want to go out".

We don't always get to do what we want in life and being a toddler is no exception. She doesn't get to dictate what our plans for the day are, I do. This works for us.

[shed]

If someone was belting the cr*p out of their kid then no one would stand by and let it happen, so this obviously wasn't the case.

I think the issue gets clouded by people presuming that a smack and a belting are the same thing. They're not.

I was belted, which has made me less likely to smack because I am scared that it is going to turn me into a belter, start slow and build up, so I am just not going to start.

My DP was not abused in this way so he doesn't have the same feeling about it. It is very likely that he will give our son the odd tap on the bum if he is acting up. Very very likely in fact. I won't like it but that's his decision and his to make as a parent.

The reason I won't do it is because of how it makes me feel. I don't think our son will grow up scarred if he is given the occasional smack. It will only be very occasional though, after that I will step in.

There will be no belting, no humiliation and no anger used when disciplining my child. And that is not negotiable.

[SassyMummy]

I tend to agree with Chelle about the whole tired toddler thing...if I returned home whenever my daughter started getting stroppy...nothing would ever get done. And whilst she might be tired and miserable about sitting in her stroller some days when she'd much rather be crawling around trying to eat every bit of a fluff from my carpet (eek!), I'm sure she'd be far more miserable if she had no food to eat, no nappies to wear etc because I had left the shops because she got cranky.

My daughter being happy is a priority, but making sure that she is safe and healthy is a bigger one for me. If that means that for a few mins (or an hour even) she has to whinge and be cranky, then so be it. She'll be much happier in the long run because of it.

I also feel that as the parent, I am the boss. What I say and do might not always be "right" but I have more insight into what is right and what is wrong, compared to her, and therefore I will do whatever I need to, and she will just have to deal with it. Not saying she won't ever get her own way - I buy her things that she seems to want, and I give in and carry her around whilst in the shops instead of leaving her in the pram...but some things NEED to be taken care of, and my grizzling daughter is not going to stop me from doing that.

As for the "good old days"...well, I wasn't nearly around back then, but I can even see how things have changed from when I was little (I was born in 86...so it wasn't that long ago...lol). Back then, you smacked. You also gave positive reinforcement to kids and discliplined them in other ways.

Perhaps it's just me, but from my observations kids nowadays are more likely to be a brat than NOT be one. I think it's to do with the constant need of parents to make sure their child is 100% happy all of the time. Parents are AFRAID to disclipline their children as children are much more aware of their "rights" than they were way back when. Kids know that if Mum smacks them, they can yell abuse...that'll teach Mum! They also know that they can just refuse to do what they are told. If they're grounded...so what? What is Mum going to do, lock them up? No TV? Pfft...Mum can't watch me 24/7...I'll watch it when she's not around!

I'm also quite sure it has something to do with the fact that kids have EVERYTHING these days. Really young children (think pre-school aged) are BRAND WHORES. They won't settle for a target t-shirt...it has to say "Roxy" or "Billabong" or at the very least, "Bratz" or "Barbie". And most of them get it? Why? I dunno...but I have the suspicion it has to do with the fact that Mum is afraid to make her child mad.

There are PLENTY of children, IMO, who could do with a good swift kick up the bum. And when I say that, I don't LITERALLY mean a kick up the bum. I mean a good smack on the bum. Not a really hard slap or punch or anything that would leave a mark. Just a smack. Abuse and smacking are not the same thing.

As for the questions about whether I'd like to be hit if I did something "wrong"? Not necessarily. But IMO, a punishment isn't something you're meant to look forward to. If my child said "YES PLEASE MUM - SMACK ME!" not only would I have a weird look on my face, but I also wouldn't want to offer it as a form of punishment.

I'm also THE PARENT and therefore the adult. I KNOW what is right and wrong, at least the basics which I expect to teach my children...I don't NEED anyone punishing me for not doing things "right."

I believe that positive reinforcement is necessary for good self-esteem, but there's a difference between having high self-esteem and believing that the universe revolves around oneself. My daughter will be praised for doing things...at first the basic things and then, once she has mastered those, then I'll move onto the more complex things (at the moment she gets praised for copying "ch" and "th" and "sssss" etc...I won't be praising her for that when she's 10).

I believe that the world doesn't offer positive reinforcement that often, and therefore children should not be given praise for every thing that they do well. Also in this world of ours, negative behaviour is punished (be it going to jail, getting fired, having a detention at school...etc etc) and therefore my daughter WILL be punished for doing wrong. It's all a matter of balance IMO.

Will I smack? If I try other methods which seem to fail I will try a smack. I will soon learn if it's not working. She's only 9 months old now...so I've got a while before I have to worry about it.

As for children feeling degraded, unloved etc etc after being smacked...perhaps some do...but some don't as well. I didn't. I felt that I got what I deserved for being a brat. I KNEW what the consequences are and I chose to be naughty anyway. I got what I knew was coming...so in a sense, it was my own fault.

As for injuries that smacking may cause...it MAY cause injury...but I highly doubt that the vast majority of smacked children are likely to be injured by it. I NEVER was, and neither was anyone I know. I caused more injury to myself by disobeying my parents (running around with something in my mouth caused me to knock a tooth out...running on the lino with only socks on made me slip and smack my face into the bench...etc).

[pegasus]

I think a lot of it comes down to consistency right from the beginning. I don't necessarily think the reasons that parents give into their children is that they are afraid to make their children mad - it's more that it's easier to shut them up than to deal with consequences (which might not always be anger).

I guess a bit of a background here would be a comparison my MIL made between me and my stepkids' biomum last week. My stepkids are two such children who will only accept clothes if branded and get anything they ask for (my DSS got a new xbox about a month ago - why? - when it's his birthday in less than a month). I was shopping with my MIL and had taken DS out of his pram for a comfort cuddle as he was overtired and getting cranky (but I had things to get done - like Chellegoth said). Anyway - I went to put him back in and warned MIL that he'd likely have a tanty but it would probably only last about 30sec. She was quite pleased I was right. Her words to me were then - "That's one of the places x went wrong - she didn't control the kids when they went out, so they got to misbehaving worse and she stopped taking them places". (My DH and I find these days that if we take them to some places we have to monitor their behaviour as to appropriateness)

Okay - it might not seem fair to compare the behaviour of a 2year old to a 13 and 11 year old, but the point is that I never saw these children disciplined from an early age (I've known them since they were 2 and 4 and only for ~10% of their lives). I have no qualms about taking my 2year old anywhere (I took him to a church wedding on Friday and thought he did pretty well).

Point being - if you don't give in from the beginning, the child learns respect without it being fear. I was smacked as a child, but we never were sent to our room or given time out or whatever. The punishment was given at the time of the 'crime', and that was the end of it. My mother never had any other means for punishment, but I am trying a different tack with my children. The positive reinforcement is crucial - try to catch your child doing good things, but we all know that there will be times that kids will disobey you and punishment may have to given out. I'm going to continue with the methods I have been using (without smacking), but I admit I have many more resources available to me that my mother didn't have. I had to - I could never smack my stepchildren (although their mother threatened me early on that she would report me for it as she said that one of the kids told her I had - not true) that would be death to my career if a wrong accusation came out, considering I work with kids.

At a certain point - smacking isn't effective if brought in as a punishment - the child learns that (if it is given in the way of a smack on the bum and on your way), it doesn't have any lasting consequences. This is why I advocate getting the positive reinforcement from a very early age, so the child wants to do the right thing for their own reasons, not just to avoid a punishment.

Hope all that made sense - it's getting late for me here and with pregmentia!

[suemp]

as to sassymummys post all i can say is
BRAVO :smiliedance: :smiliedance:

[the_queen]

(Firstly: pregmentia :laughing: fantastic, i am SO using that term!!!)




This is why I advocate getting the positive reinforcement from a very early age, so the child wants to do the right thing for their own reasons, not just to avoid a punishment.

I completely agree.

[Funkychicken]

I believe that positive reinforcement is necessary for good self-esteem, but there's a difference between having high self-esteem and believing that the universe revolves around oneself. My daughter will be praised for doing things...at first the basic things and then, once she has mastered those, then I'll move onto the more complex things (at the moment she gets praised for copying "ch" and "th" and "sssss" etc...I won't be praising her for that when she's 10).

I believe that the world doesn't offer positive reinforcement that often, and therefore children should not be given praise for every thing that they do well. Also in this world of ours, negative behaviour is punished (be it going to jail, getting fired, having a detention at school...etc etc) and therefore my daughter WILL be punished for doing wrong. It's all a matter of balance IMO.

.

I think I understand where you are coming from here.
I remember attending a seminar by a renowned child pyschologist (name eludes me right now!) from, Melbourne and she had a wonderful way of explaining how to use positive reinforcement in a way that is beneficial.
Examples:
Your (small) child has just done you a picture of coloured scrawl and shows you with a beaming face. You can respond in various ways such as the following:

What a beautiful drawing you have done and look at all those lovely colours. Can you tell me which colours you have used?

Gee, your drawing is looking really nice-you must have worked really hard on that one.

What a clever little girl you are. Aren't you just wonderful? Look everyone ,????? has done a drawing, isn't she clever?
The first two examples are using positive reinforcment, the third is telling the child she is something she is not.

It explains a bit more about how our children can grow up thinking they are 'great' for doing little. It's not about the inner person or anything like that. We all know everyone is special for who they are, this is just ways of pointing out to the child why they have received praise.

[zactyl]

One in five men considers it to be all right to hit their partner or wife.

Here are some resources that may help parents who want to stop smacking their child/ren.
Spanking, Ages 1 to 3 (http://www.ahealthyadvantage.com/topic/spanking1to3)
10 Pro-Corporal Punishment Arguments & 10 Commonsense Answers (http://stophitting.blogspot.com/2006/01/back-in-good-ol-days-and-other.html)

[Maghan]

Ahhh, kids these days... if the way we parent "these days" is wrong and our children are so much more out of control, then why are our jails full now?

[drewid]

Ahhh, kids these days... if the way we parent "these days" is wrong and our children are so much more out of control, then why are our jails full now?

Good point :D

[suemp]

ok aijent you dont like smacking, we get it. im glad it does not work for you and you have found an alternative that does. but smacking, unless on the head (as you mentioned) is not illegal so can you please stop with the "your damaging you child" quotes. no one enjoys smacking, nor is it the only punishment used but it works for our family and many others. if all smacked children turned out as bad as you think virtually my entire generation would be a menace to society, or cowering in a corner as it was the norm back then. sure some of my generation are messed up, but can you entirely put that down to being lightly tapped on the behind to show them right from wrong. i do not condone being abusive what i do condone is to let parents , parent their own way with out judgement unless of course the children are being abused by excesive violence (which is not smacking) or sexually abused.

[zactyl]

The point we're trying to get across is that smacking has no place in modern parenting.

"In previous centuries, special defences existed in legislation in many states to justify corporal punishment of wives, servants, slaves and apprentices. Violence to women remains far too prevalent, but in most states it is no longer defended in legislation. It is paradoxical and an affront to humanity that the smallest and most vulnerable of people should have less protection from assault than adults."
Click here for PDF (550KB) of the Global Initiative Handbook: Hitting people is wrong and children are people too. (http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org/pages/pdfs/hittingwrong.pdf)
From EndCorporalPunishment.org (http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org/pages/intro/intro.html)

[Funkychicken]

i saw a program on telly a few years ago in which teenagers ans 20 somethings in Sweden were in terviewed and asked about their views on smacking. As Sweden has for the last 20 years had smacking as an illegal offence, most of these people had never come across parents hitting their children. Even I was surprised by the looks of surprise on their faces when they were told that in some countries parents smack their children. They found this very hard to digest. I can't recall the name of the program unfortunately.
I'm not offering an opinion here just recalling a very interesting program!:)

[Ana Gram]

Just a quick word: we get the point.
Those who don't smack are wonderful people who never get anything wrong and we who do should have been sterilised to never have the oppertunity to have children.

For the record, your tactic hasn't worked into making me feel like a terrible parent who needs your help to change my life. It has however given me a fairly negative opinion of several people in this thread but I wouldn't write what I actually think of these people on a public forum.

Mods delete away, I just need to say it.

[hippee]

I'm not sure from reading this thread if it is a debate about smacking or not smacking or as was said in the original post, more about 'children these days'. I was brought up in the smack your children generation. It was what it was and that's what we as children knew to be the punishment for wrong behaviour. There was also a wooden spoon at times which grew to need only be a 'shake' of the utensils drawer to quiet us.
The next generation which probably includes quite a lot of the younger mums on bubhub was more about acknowledging the good things children do and focusing on positive reactions to thr right behaviour instead of only responding to naughty behaviour. I for one think this has been a huge leap forward in parenting-BUT-have we gone too far? It seems we have developed a whole lot of narcissistic teenagers who feel that they are perfect in every way without having actually worked for it. I don't mean in a job sense, more that they have been praised their whole lives for everything from a scribbly picture to puting away a dish. They haven't done any hard yards to get to where they are-it has been handed to a lot of them by parents who, with good intentions, are afraid to discipline their children in any negative way. Parents who are worried that their children won't love them if they don't provide for them every thing they ask for. These children will be in dire trouble when it comes time to actually work for a living. Employers aren't as forgiving as parents and many younger peolpe starting out in the workforce just can't cope with being told what to do. We have had numerous people work for us who have statements such as "But that's not my job" or "I can't do that in case I hurt myself" or "I'm entitiled to x amount of sick leave and I haven't used any so I'm taking a day off." And one of the most common "But it's 5o'clock and this is when my wages are paid to so I can't help you finish up."
These are examples of people who have been completely cotton woolled from the reality of the world and have no idea how to fend for themselves.
Boundaries have to be in place if a child is to feel safe. They need to be aware of the consequences of their actions and if they choose to 'do it anyway' they also have to cop the results, be it a smack, timeout, or other form of discipline. There doesn't have to be long drawn out arguments with children-this achieves squat.
This is not intended to offend anyone, it is just a bit of harsh reality. We are the adults in the relationship and this means we have a duty to make our children feel safe in the world by instilling in them a sense of right and wrong and the consequences for what decisions they choose to make. These are called boundaries.
OK, I've had my rant... I'll go now.:D

Gosh that was good thankyou.:yelclap:

[Maghan]

Whoa, did the temperature in here just go up?

When did this turn into a smackers -v- no smackers thread.

Is this more a subjective -vs- objective test???

[xkwzit]

Can we keep it objective please (thanks Maghan).

Please provide your own information and experience, without attacking others. Tea Lady made a good point that any form of discipline can be abused, so no smacking hardly means that you are a perfect parent. Discipline is only one aspect of parenting, it is OK to disagree with each other, but please keep it civil.

Cheers

[Odessa]

I was smacked regularly and with a fair bit of force as a child, in fact I have vivid memories of my dad's weightlifting belt, the wooden spoon, egg flip, etc. As it happens, I have not become a violent criminal, I have never been to gaol, and I am a balanced and productive member of society. My parents were young, it was the early 80s, and they did not know any better. The argument that children who are smacked turn into deviants and criminals is hype and nonsense. This is not to say that I will or will not smack any children that I have, I will make that decision when the time comes. But no one has the right to tell someone else how to parent their children, regardless of how "right" they think they are.

[Ana Gram]

So we aren't allowed to have an opinion or give our experience on what works for us in our home? No-one is advocating child abuse here. People who are abusing their children will more than likely continue to do it no matter what someone says on an internet forum.
Your idea of what should be allowed to be said could pretty much cover every aspect of parenting like formula feeding, disposable nappies and control crying.

Also in a previous post in this very thread, you asked people to take offence at what you were saying and now you are saying don't take it personally???? :confused: Which is it?

[BJelly]

I would like to strongly disagree with the posters who suggest that not smacking children equals no discipline. I haven't smacked my child but she is well disciplined. She knows the boundaries and she is very well behaved. I am consistent with my discipline and she does the right thing because she wants to please me, not because she doesn't want to get a smack or is afraid of me, or of me getting angry and losing my temper (which may or may not affect how hard people smack).

As an aside, at my playgroup there is only one mother I've seen smack her child or hit her child on the head with a toy after her DD (2yrs old) hit another child on the head with a toy and it is the mother who appears out of control ( I have to say the first time I saw this I was quite shocked) - the child seems a bit spirited but well within the normal range of a two year old. I can't help but think that if the mother was calmer and modelled a more moderate form of behaviour herself, whether she'd enjoy her child more (she often makes negative comments about her child and her behaviour) and her child would be better behaved.

I have sympathy for the mother because she otherwise seems like a very nice person - maybe her daughter has been difficult since she was a baby, or maybe she doesn't get much support at home, and that is what causes her to be so tense and feel that smacking is her only way of controlling her child. But being a disciplinarian requires that we model self control before we can expect a toddler to do the same - it seems very hypocritical to expect a toddler or young child to show more self-control and social skills than we as adults expect of ourselves.

I agree with the previous poster who said that we seem to have a generation of overindulged children, and I am determined my DD will not be spoilt - I don't crumble and give in whenever she cries because she wants something - the world doesn't work like that and to give into her would be for my sake, it wouldn't help her in the long run.

[heymamma]

Well gee,,, i didnt realize this thread would go so bad like this....i dont normally come to this section...but i thought i had a story to tell may aswell go to the right section for it.

I just want to say yes i do smack my kids...well not ethan is to little & doesnt do wrong yet... But i do disapline my kids...i dont just go.. Oh well you have been bad there have a smack & thats it.... I normally put Alyssa in her room on her bed in the corner etc... & phoenix gets a tap on the hand or butt...if its something really bad i will put him in the porta cot for 1min.
I am so shocked at the amount of people saying dont take it personal....yet you surely must know what you are saying to the smackers is putting them down as a parent. i was smacked as a child & turned out ok..... it was other things that made me rebell(sp?) Parents divorcing...being molested etc.

I would just like to say Chelle You sound like an awesome woman & most times you take the words right out of my mouth....i totally agree with what you have said & couldnt have said it better. :thumbsup:

[xkwzit]

All the people in the butcher's said "yeah good on you love!!" they said thats what kids need these days...there is to many parents out there that dont smack there kids & thats why children are so bad these days. I do agree ..i think there is to many people out there that dont smack there kids & the kids believe they have the power.

Heymamma
Some ppl have made the decision not to smack and actively seek other ways of disciplining their children. Surely you can see that comments from your first post (as highlighted above) are something that they would disagree with and might feel that you were putting down non-smacking parents. But disagreement is not necessarily having a go at someone, is it? We are never going to all agree on this or many other topics.

Differences of opinion are welcomed on the hub, it's a way we can learn from each other. But keep it nice and on topic, impolite posting won't be tolerated.

Cheers

[xkwzit]

I thought aijent missed one important question (sorry aijent):

How does a child handle the inconsistency of not smacking when out, but smacking when at home?

I just ask because I do know of some women whose kids will act up when they are out specifically because they know that mummy won't smack them in public. Personally I'd prefer it if my kids behaved all the time, so I discipline them consistently all the time.

Cheers

[Ana Gram]

As for parents who go overboard/ don't understand how sensitive children are to physical pain, not refraining from physical discipline after reading a public forum posting.
The written word along with the www is one of the most powerful and influential tools available to us today. Give people real alternatives that have worked for other parents, some positive feedback themselves and together we can make society a much better place. Give people a little credit not all abusers are intentionally horrible or low intellect people.



As I said before I have just as much right to say what discipline works for my family on a public forum as you do. You can say what works for you and YOUR children and I can say what works for me and MINE.

[Ana Gram]

Ok, I gave my honest, factual opinions on not to smack, so how about answering some questions on why you do smack because I'm afraid I really don't understand why people do smack other then it worked on them and they didn't suffer.

Why do you smack?

What does it acheive?

How do you feel afterwards, emotionally?

Could you have used a different technique? If so, what ? If not, why not?

Do you give permission to friends, family, child carers and teachers to smack your child?

If not, why not? If so, are limitations set ?

Would you like to see the cane brought back into schools and why/why not?


Although I highly doubt many people are going to be game enough to answer you little questionare for the fear of a countering tirade of why they are wrong, perhaps this would be better as a new thread.

[suemp]

well i will answer your questions aijent

why do you smack? to let my ds know what he did was wrong and unnacceptable

what does it achieve? my ds knows straight away what he did was wrong (obviously)

how do you feel afterwards? i love it. what do you think of course i dont like to discipline my child in any way. also when i send him to his room and see his sad little face i dont like that either but its called discipline

could you use a different technique? of course. what works for me is using afew different techniques from a firm "no" to being in time ot, or removal of privelages.

would i like others to hit my child? no but i also dont want anyone else to yell at our put my child in time out either except me, his dad and the teachers if necessary.

do i want the cane back? how is this relevant for starters as we are talking about lightly smacking our children not getting a cane out and whipping them. teachers have lost all rights. ok a cane is not the best answer but teachers are no longer even alowd to console a child by giving them a hug in fear of being accused of making sexual advances (esp male teachers)

and xkzwit q about the inconsistency about smacking , for starters if we are out and i feel my son deserves a smack i give him one. as i said i do not violently attack my son and so the taps he would recieve in public are the same as the ones he gets at home, and if any one has a prob seeing it "in public" that is thier prob
as for the consistency what would you do if your punishment was time out in a corner at home? try doing that in public!!


i have answered your q honestly as you asked so now dont try and turn them into an attack against me thankyou

[Tea Lady]

Although my DD is too young to get many smacks I will also answer your Qs (and btw I'm not advocating smacking, just trying to explain how I think about it. I believe different techniques work for different kids and different parents at different times, but I do expect to smack my DD from time to time, so I assume my answers will be relevant.).

why do you smack? as a deterrent from repeating bad/ dangerous behaviour or as a punishment for doing the wrong thing.

what does it achieve? as opposed to other methods, I think smacking can have the advantage that it gets the whole episode over quickly (ie doesn't drag out like time out etc can). The way I see it a smack should be preceded by a warning, then the child should be asked to tell the parent what it is they have done (assuming they continue the behaviour) and then the smack administered ONLY if / when the parent is calm and not angry, then the child says sorry and the parent forgives and reaffirms their love for the child and they can both move on. This provides closure as well as teaching the child to be sorry and say sorry. I worry that it is easy to let resentment about bad behaviour continue if there is no closure after the child is disciplined, and that this is really damaging to the child. I am not in favour of smacks without warning (although I may if my child was about to run on the road or something) or that the child doesn't understand.

how do you feel afterwards? I don't / won't enjoy it if that's what you're getting at, and I certainly don't plan to smack as an emotional outlet for me. If I'm angry or frustrated I think it would be a big mistake to smack. I think discussing with the child what they have done before smacking is an important chance for the parent to cool down so they don't just lash out.

could you use a different technique? I do / plan to mainly use other methods but I think smacking can be part of the broad spectrum

would i like others to hit my child? Nobody but my DH and I will have permission to smack my child.

do i want the cane back? Strangely enough I am yet to meet a teacher (and I know alot!) that thinks it was a good idea to take the cane away, but that's a different story........:rolleyes: :)



This is an issue I have thought about alot and I'm certainly not just repeating what my parents did to me without thinking about it, and I'm definitely not suggesting that people should smack their kids. Just trying to show that not everyone who does is a violent psychopath :)

[Beany]

Okay, I'm game to answer the questions. I will state upfront that I am not yet a parent but, due to the traditional cultural set-up of my family (everyone living together and thus everyone being a caregiver to their siblings' children), I do have experience disciplining children.

Why do you smack?
There was really only one situation in which I would smack a child: to snap the child out of a tantrum loop that they had got themselves entangled in - where they scream and scream, no longer able to do anything else as their own screaming razzes them up further. I found a sharp smack to the bottom interrupts this particular vicious cycle and prompts a behaviour change.

What does it acheive?

The interruption in that cycle makes them finally able to hear what is being said and allows them to detangle themselves from the tantrum.

How do you feel afterwards, emotionally?

I don't know how to answer that as a smack doesn't really come from an emotional place for me. Its a rationally thought-out decision to achieve a particular result. I suppose there's an element of gratitude for the break from the tantrum.

Could you have used a different technique? If so, what ? If not, why not?

Could I have? Yes. Have I? Yes. Did they work? Ooooh lordy no. All it led to was the child and me becoming increasingly frazzled to a stage where something bad could have happened.

Do you give permission to friends, family, child carers and teachers to smack your child?

Like I said, this was something I did as an aunt that the child lived with and interacted with day in day out. I had implicit permission to do so. If I were having my child in that same situation (I'm not: I live on the other side of the world) then yes, my immediate family would have permission to discipline my children, I trust them, their judgement and their control enough to feel secure with that.

I don't discipline my friends' children, nor would I ever presume to do so. Not only do I not t know their children well enough to know what methods are being used with them or know what is effective, I also have absolutely no right to entangle myself in someone else's family. I expect the same in return.

Child carers and teachers would also have no right to smack my child for the reasons stated above.

Would you like to see the cane brought back into schools and why/why not?

No I wouldn't for the reason stated above.

[Kirstlea]

Why do you smack?
What does it acheive?
How do you feel afterwards, emotionally?
Could you have used a different technique? If so, what ? If not, why not?
Do you give permission to friends, family, child carers and teachers to smack your child?
If not, why not? If so, are limitations set ?
Would you like to see the cane brought back into schools and why/why not?

I will smack my dd when she does something dangerous that she knows full well she should not be doing.

I don't even think about it as I more relieved that she is not dead or seriously hurt.

In situations like that there are very few techniques I can think of that I haven't already tried and obviously haven't worked in certain situations.

Even in the old days teachers did not smack children so thats an irrelevant question. My family and dd's carer have been told if she does something dangerous to smack her on the bum once, which is all she gets from me.

Yes I would like to see the cane brought back into schools as its a great deterrent.
It hardly ever got used in my school of over 880 pupils so sure worked as a deterrent.

Now in writing all these comments I have also lost the plot a few times and smacked dd as I have lost my patience. When that has happened I have felt terrible and apologised to her. Infact it was only last week that I realised that I need to make a more concious effort to keep my cool and realise that she is only testing her boundries.

If she turns out anything close to what I am like she will keep pushing as far as she can.

Also my dd is the perfect angel with everyone else so they have no need to smack her, though she does throw the odd tanty for them. It doesn't bother them as they see her for maybe one day at a time, where as I have her with me 6 days a week 24/7.

I can not stand kids running riot in shops and pulling things off shelves. To add insult to injury I see parents just letting them do it, I hate that with a passion:banghead: I hate it even more when a parent says don't do that and walks away without even checking to see if their child has listened to them.

My dd knows she is not allowed to touch a thing even toys and because of this she was given a small toy from a shop owner the other day for being such a good girl. I was pleasantly surprised but now I have something else up my sleeve to remind her why we don't touch things in shops, besides the fact that they are not ours to touch unless we buy them.

To me the old school way has not hurt the system its the air fairy way of discipline that has turned all our future generation into blamers for their actions and have no concept of accepting the consequences of their actions.

Good grief I could go on and on I think I had better stop.

To Heymamma I kind of agree with the butcher but of course everything in moderation as usual.;)

[SassyMummy]

I'm quite shocked at some of the replies this topic has recieved.

It's all well and good that some are for smacking, some are against, and some are uncertain...but what I find the most horrible about this topic, is that those that have admitted to smacking their kids have been treated so horribly by some members of the forum!

While I don't really discipline my baby in any way just yet (she's 9 months...just the use of the word "no" seems to get the point across), I am as yet uncertain as to whether or not I will smack her when she's older. I plan to try other methods, but if all else seems to fail, then I won't hesitate to try giving her a smack.

As I have earlier stated, all methods of punishment and disclipline could have adverse effects. Of COURSE some children who have been smacked will end up in jail...but so will those who haven't. Smacking doesn't mean that your child will grow into a criminal, or a model citizen...just as every other method of discipline doesn't mean your child will end up better or worse.

I was smacked. I am not scarred. Nothing is wrong with me as a result of smacking. I have not been an abusive child or adult. I am intelligent, and was top of my class in many subjects. I have never been in hospital, other than to visit, have my baby and be born. I have never had so much as a detention...let alone go to jail. The only thing I have done which some might think is a "failure" is have a baby at 19. Therefore, I doubt that simply smacking a child can cause signifigant damage.

As a smacked child, I am horrified that people would consider my mother a child abuser. Because, admit it or not, that is basically what many of the non-smacking parents of this thread have inferred. All parents do the best they can with the knowledge they have...and for some, smacking works MUCH better than anything else.

I'd also like to add that saying "I do not mean to offend but..." actually means nothing. It is something which is said so that if anyone DOES get offended (which they are likely to, considering it is normally placed BEFORE an offensive comment), the original author can claim that it was "not meant in offence" and therefore the offended really should just get over it. So please, just be honest. There's really no point in saying something similar to: "Smacking is abuse. IMO, parents who smack are abusing their children...sorry, no offence to those who smack, I'm sure you're great parents." It's just a huge cover-your-a*se type of statement, and a massive contradiction.

[draught]

I think Sassy's Mummy has made a good point. This is not a Smacking vs non-smacking parents game of point scoring. There have been some valuable and insightful posts made. But she is quite right - simply adding the words " I don't mean to offend" does not make a post any less offensive.

So in the interests of returning the forum to a place of support this thread will be closed.