View Full Version : Infants should sleep alone: coroner
WorkingClassMum
30-06-2008, 15:21
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=589219
Parents have been warned by a coroner not to share their bed with infants.
Coroner Olivia McTaggart has released her findings into the deaths of four infants in Tasmania in 2005 and 2006.
Three of the children died from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS), she said.
The fourth infant died from overlaying, brought about by a parent accidentally rolling on to the infant in bed, she said.
"In each case the infant's death was contributed to by an unsafe sleeping environment," Ms McTaggart said.
She warned parents against allowing infants to share their beds, and also emphasised the importance of sleeping infants on their backs.
In her findings, Ms McTaggart referred to figures on overlaying, asphyxia or undetermined causes of infant deaths for 31 Tasmanian babies under the age of 12 months between May 1999 and July 2006.
Another three infants died with the cause of death given as bronchopneumonia in circumstances of bed sharing or an unsafe sleeping environment, she said.
"In 33 of these 34 infant deaths the circumstances involved an unsafe sleeping environment, she said.
"Predominantly the infants died while co-sleeping with one or both parents in an adult bed.
"Nine deaths occurred after the infant had been put to sleep in their own cot, but on their stomach or side."
Ms McTaggart said additional risk factors in many of these deaths were the infant apparently being in an overheated environment, parental smoking and parents' consumption of alcohol and drugs.
She recommended that the Tasmanian Department of Health and Human Services adopt a lead role in a clear prevention strategy.
She wants the government to advocate a single set of consistent guidelines defining the appropriate strategies to be implemented by parents, carers, and health professionals for the reduction of risk factors in sudden unexpected deaths of infants.
The state government's Council for Obstetric and Paediatric Mortality and Morbidity welcomed Monday's report.
Its interim chair Associate Professor Peter Dargaville said parents need to be aware of the vital importance of safe sleeping arrangements for new babies.
"Information is already provided by maternity hospitals and newborn units to new parents about the need to avoid sleeping with their baby in bed with them," he said.
"However, the coroner's report makes it tragically clear that the message is not getting through in all cases."
Ms McTaggart recommendations will be examined to see where improvements can be made, Prof Dargaville said.
I thought this would be interesting to discuss and debate - nicely
I co-slept whilst bfeeding DS, but DD wouldn't co-sleep - so I let my babies make the decison. I would prefer to co-sleep - MOTH hates it
forbetoel
30-06-2008, 15:23
I would never have my babies in my bed because of sids. SIDS recommend seperate sleeping surfaces for you and your baby. :( So sad, these stories break my heart. The poor parents. :(
MummaBear03
30-06-2008, 15:24
Well that's what happens when it's not done safely. How many babies have died alone in cots compared to in their mothers' beds?
MummaBear03
30-06-2008, 15:25
I would never have my babies in my bed because of sids. SIDS recommend seperate sleeping surfaces for you and your baby. :( So sad, these stories break my heart. The poor parents. :(
According to the SIDS information I had when pregnant it's better for babies to sleep with the parents under the correct conditions.....
There are safe ways of doing it, but it's really not for me.
I've always found having DS in a cot right next to my bed to be a good middle ground.
Too many pillows and a quilt in my bed! I love to be snug.
forbetoel
30-06-2008, 15:27
Well that's what happens when it's not done safely. How many babies have died alone in cots compared to in their mothers' beds?
That is not what it is about though.
It is about the increased risk of sleeping on the same surface as an infant.
It has nothing to do with cots, and if it did, you would then need to look at how many of those cots had bumpers, and how many were on theri belly in the cot etc, etc.
It is just about the increased risk, which is valid and is IMO a bit of common sense.
forbetoel
30-06-2008, 15:28
According to the SIDS information I had when pregnant it's better for babies to sleep with the parents under the correct conditions.....
Yes...they recommend seperate sleeping surfaces.
Well that's what happens when it's not done safely. How many babies have died alone in cots compared to in their mothers' beds?
It states 9 in the article. They were placed on their stomachs or sides.
I would of loved to cosleep with my babies, but DH wasn't keen at all. So they only cosleep when he's away with work (4 weeks/year) or if they are sick and now with DD2 for her daysleeps with me at home (if I can get DD1 to nap at the same time).
shelle65
30-06-2008, 15:31
Ms McTaggart said additional risk factors in many of these deaths were the infant apparently being in an overheated environment, parental smoking and parents' consumption of alcohol and drugs.
I think this is a key point that should have been further emphasised.
cinnamonbear
30-06-2008, 15:33
there are safe ways to co-sleep
and if people actually do research into it..there is alot of benifits to co-sleeping
i co-sleep with dd who is now 9 months..she has never spent a night without me asleep by her side...but i guess each to their own
Hollywood
30-06-2008, 15:37
How tragic :gloomy:
We co-sleep, and will continue to do so until DS wants to go to his own bed because we practice SAFE co-sleeping. We have done research and still feel it's the best option for us.
Here's some of our findings:
Co-Sleeping, Safety, and SIDS:
Japan has the lowest rate of SIDS in the world. Japanese babies routinely share their parent's beds (McKenna 1998).
In 1999 the CPSC put out a report based on research done by Suad Nakumara Ph.D and stating that their own study indicates the practice of co-sleeping is dangerous and accounts for 64 deaths each year from suffocation and strangulation.
La Leche League International responded the next day. (LLL 1999) with a press release which outlined the benefits of co sleeping as follows:
"Studies have shown that co-sleeping with a breastfeeding infant promotes bonding, regulates the mother and baby's sleep patterns, plays a role in helping mother to become responsive to her baby's cues, and gives mother and baby needed rest. Co-sleeping... assists mothers with breastfeeding on demand, ....maintaining mother's milk supply."
They go on to cite a quote from Dr. McKenna
"we agree with the authors and others that special precautions need to be taken to minimize catastopphoic accidents. However, the need for such precautions is no more an argument against all co-sleeping, and specifically bedsharing, than is the reality of infants accidentally strangling, suffocating, or dying from SIDS alone in cribs, a reason to recommend against all solitary, unsupervised infant sleep."
He goes on to say that specific hazards of adult beds are not an indication that all bed-sharing is unsafe. McKenna criticized the study because the authors based their findings on incomplete and anecdotal evidence rather than hard scientific data.
McKenna, (2000), Gordon (2000), Sears (2002), Fleiss (1999), Screiber (1999) and others all responded by saying the study was flawed for several reasons. They point out that 90% of SIDS deaths occurred when the baby was alone in its crib. They say that the study wasn't a valid study and that the recommendations go too far. Assumptions were made based on limited or flawed data which was obstructed by cultural bias, and overlooks proven benefits of co-sleeping, all of which is outlined in detail in McKenna 2000 and Gordon 2000. Rather than ban co-sleeping all together, the authors suggest practicing safe co-sleeping which includes the following:
Parents should not co-sleep with their infant if the parents are under the influence of alcohol, recreational drugs, or if they smoke.
Parents should not co-sleep with their infant on a soft mattress, couch, water-bed or arm chair as the child may suffocate. By the same token, the family bed should have tight fitting sheets and the mattress should be firm and fit snug up against the wall and care taken so that infant cannot roll out of the bed.
Baby's head should not be covered and infant not be blanketed more than the adults to avoid overheating.
Additionally, Parents should avoid wearing garments with long drawstrings or bows that can become undone and pose a strangulation hazard to the infant.
Both McKenna and Sears recommend the Arms Reach Co-sleeper as an alternative to bed-sharing when bed-sharing is not a viable option (McKenna, Sears, 1999).
neostudded
30-06-2008, 15:38
How sad for those poor babies and families :(
My bub sleeps in my bed, I love co sleeping, I never wold have though I would but I do.I read having the baby in the same room but in a cot ect is the reccomended thing to do.
From the SIDS research I have read I beleive the safest set up to be having the baby in the same room as the parent but in a separate sleep space ie a cot.
That way they can hear your breathing (which apparently helps them remember to breath), and you can hear if they are in distress but there is no risk of you rolling on them or them smothering under your doona.
Safe co-sleeping is just that...SAFE.
sam's mum
30-06-2008, 16:06
From the SIDS research I have read I beleive the safest set up to be having the baby in the same room as the parent but in a separate sleep space ie a cot.
.
that's what I had understand as well.
I know that there definately seems to be a consensus that there are groups of people who should not share a bed with their babies.
I think this is a key point that should have been further emphasised.
I agree.
I think its irresponsible for people to take things out of context and then say co-sleeping itself is unsafe. More babies die in their cot alone than die from safe co-sleeping. Unsafe co-sleeping shouldn't be lumped in with safe co-sleeping any more than any other unsafe practice.
More info here for those who want it:
http://www.nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/safe.html
MummaBear03
30-06-2008, 16:21
It states 9 in the article. They were placed on their stomachs or sides.
I meant in total in Australia.
We Co-sleep with a side cart next to our bed, that way no chance of rolling on DD. It worked for us and is so beneficial for me and DD to be so close.
Phyllis Stein
30-06-2008, 16:41
ApprenticeMomma summed it up for me.
I read an article about those Tassie deaths recently (will try and find it...), and it specifically pointed out that each baby's death had at least one unsafe factor involved - that did not include co-sleeping itself.
I'm so glad I co-sleep - I've learnt to wake the second Jas stirs, so I can feed him back to sleep immediately. Plus, he woke up struggling to breathe a few nights ago, due to mucous congestion. Hate to think what would have happened had he been in a cot in a separate room (which I see as far more risky than safe co-sleeping).
:iagree:I totally agree with Mahna Mahna.
TheMamma
01-07-2008, 07:21
As long as we all make decisions that are best for our family - and do these in the safest possible manner - then I don't seem the harm in co-sleeping. (I don't co-sleep, but don't have anything against it at all)
punkbaby
01-07-2008, 07:24
Safe co-sleeping is just that...SAFE.
:yes: I co slept with all mine
Only my 4th is choosing to do it part time which is fine, although i miss those cuddles.
Personally, I never slept very well with a baby in the bed because I was so worried about the doona covering her face, or rolling on her or similar. So co-sleeping wouldn't have worked for us ... if the mother's need for some sleep is any deciding factor!
I think the reason co-sleeping came off so badly in this report is that unsafe sleeping practices WHEN co-sleeping seem to pose a higher risk than unsafe sleeping practices when the baby is in a cot.
And that brings us back to our theme for the month:
Bad parenting is the biggest danger to our children. :gloomy:
Personally, I don't think any comparison can be drawn between those who practice SAFE sleeping (whether in bed or in a cot) and those who don't. And the risk factors for SIDS - smoking, overheating etc - would seem so easily avoided. :gloomy::gloomy::gloomy:
Duchessa
01-07-2008, 08:46
[moderator's text removed by user]
The emphasis that the various posters have placed on unsafe co-sleeping practice is an important route to the truth. Anyone who is intoxicated, a smoker (and a whole other host of indicators) is not a safe co-sleeper. There are very clear guidelines about how to co-sleep safely and you will find that most of the women who choose to are very strict about following them.
[text removed by moderator]
So some coroner says unsafe co-sleeping can cause babies to die, well d'uh.
Doesn't mean co-sleeping is unsafe so its a good thing to have the innaccuracies pointed out. I can't stand it when so-called learned professionals take things out of context to make parents doubt their decisions. The research and opinion IS flawed, so good bloody job that its been picked apart, should be more of it IMO.
Just with almost every parenting style, there a pros & cons.... Safe practices & not so safe.
Thanks for the info Kayte... I co-sleep with Mitch every night, and Lincoln when he needs me, and am very sure that it's the safest way for us to sleep. Physically & mentally :yes:. It's always good to read over info like that, though... Just to make sure that I'm doing everything in the safest way.
I can't stand it when so-called learned professionals take things out of context to make parents doubt their decisions.
So well said Shed... Pffft to learned professionals!
I think the important thing to remember as well is that if you are cosleeping with your baby and you DH then it is unsafe if you or your DH smoke, drink, take certain medications etc It's not only the mother that has to abstain.
Ashleigh<3
01-07-2008, 09:09
There were days/nights where we co-slept, but we mostly had her in a bassinet, right beside our bed and I wake at a pin drop.
She was fairly easy to feed back to sleep and didn't seem bothered by being put down into her bed. I had a very sleepy infant.
I love that one story someone posted months back, it was about this tribe within the amazon where the Mothers are found to be co-sleeping with their infants till they were grown children, it went on to talk about how very rare SIDS was within their tribe in comparison to modern culture.
Just because I myself, found it hard to co-sleep 24-7, does not mean I don't recommend it, on the days/nights that we did, I could see how beneficial it was. There could never be anything wrong about sleeping next to your infant in a safe sleeping environment.
I swear, some of the articles we read, books we read, makes you wonder if the journalist or author are being paid off by baby furniture distributors, "CO-SLEEPING is bad, put your infant in a 'Buckingham' cot from birth and save your child from SIDS!".
I swear, some of the articles we read, books we read, makes you wonder if the journalist or author are being paid off by baby furniture distributors, "CO-SLEEPING is bad, put your infant in a 'Buckingham' cot from birth and save your child from SIDS!".
snigger. Oh so young and oh so cynical :laughing:
couldn't agree more!
Mischief
01-07-2008, 09:25
Ive noticed in my Maternity *Manual* that there is a sticker in it now advising parents to not allow their baby to sleep in their bed.
Oliver never slept with us, Steven and I both toss and turn all night, we knew it wouldnt be safe for him. He's had his own room right from the start.
He does LOVE coming to jump into bed with us in the mornings for snuggles and jumping! :laughing: :)
Ashleigh<3
01-07-2008, 09:29
snigger. Oh so young and oh so cynical :laughing:
couldn't agree more!
*buries foot into ground* :D
He does LOVE coming to jump into bed with us in the mornings for snuggles and jumping! :laughing: :)
That's what I want!
I have the opposite, I'm waiting for her to actually want to come in our bed for snuggles but instead we get, "Mum! Dad- DOWNSTAIRS!".
She has made it quite clear that bed's and cots are for sleeping in (at night).
No time for cuddles with this lil gal, always on the move!:(
The best outcome would be to discover what the one key cause of SIDS is, not just what increases the risk.
84zsazsa
01-07-2008, 10:09
What causes SIDS changes almost monthly according to facts and evidence as everyone keeps quoting!!! The time would be better spent pin pointing as you said what causes it. My family has been affected by SIDS and we wait the day of finding. Facts will do you no good when the worse happens may i put out there.
Danni
Thats why we should all buy a red nose this month to support SIDS and kids in their research!
SorenLorensen
01-07-2008, 10:36
SIDS scared the **** out of me, we have lost a family friends child to a few years before i was born it so it is something i have always known about.
co-sleeping for us isn't safe, so we don't do it
Just a reminder everyone, let's keep it nice. You are welcome to discuss and debate the coroner's opinion without being insulting to others who hold views that differ from yours.
Thank you.
make sure you are reading what they are saying. Don't suggest researchers are saying one thing when they might mean another.
On the second point re research - People need information, that's why most of us arrived here on BubHub in the first place.
BUT ... Criticise the RESEARCH, not the researcher. A good critique is a very valuable thing, but its about facts, not opinions.
Saying, for example, "they have failed to show that SAFE co-sleeping practices are dangerous" is valuable critique that will help anyone reading the post
Saying (not that you did, just for an example) "the research is worthless because its slanted/biased etc" is useless BECAUSE it doesn't give any worthwhile information to back up that opinion.
Sorry if I seem a bit dogmatic on this, but my background is in reporting scientific and legal information. I have seen scientists careers destroyed because of sensationalist reporting of their research, and public dismay as a result. Didn't make their conclusions any less valid, tho ...
my eldest would get in bed for about 5 mins and then want out. My twins had there own beds right from the get go.
I had angel monitors for each of my boys so if they stopped breathing or there heart stopped I would know about it-I didnt want to risk having them in bed with me and something happen even though I didnt smoke my hubby did at the time-he has since given up.
The thing for me mostly was that regardless of medical reasons etc etc for not having them in my bed the fact was that because I fed them we both needed our space. I needed to sleep until there next feed as much as they did. Being all in the same bed would have resulted in less sleep for one or all of us. :)
Sorry if I seem a bit dogmatic on this, but my background is in reporting scientific and legal information. I have seen scientists careers destroyed because of sensationalist reporting of their research, and public dismay as a result. Didn't make their conclusions any less valid, tho ...
oh I hear you on that!! wholeheartedly agree!!
and dogmatic is good :yes:
For all we know this poor coroner may very well be spewing about being misquoted anyway :detective:
Ive noticed in my Maternity *Manual* that there is a sticker in it now advising parents to not allow their baby to sleep in their bed.
Oliver never slept with us, Steven and I both toss and turn all night, we knew it wouldnt be safe for him. He's had his own room right from the start.
He does LOVE coming to jump into bed with us in the mornings for snuggles and jumping! :laughing: :)
We are exactly the same but DS slept in the same room with us in his cot in his first month.
Having said that, the only times DS co-sleeps with me is when he is ill so I can keep an eye on him. I don't get much sleep though. DH sleeps in the guest room when this happens.
I still think this needs more looking into - it says that 33 out of the 34 were in unsafe sleeping environments. That still leaves one baby who tragically passed away in a "safe" sleeping environment.
None of the babies who died in cots were placed on their backs safely.
I think this researcher is probably distressed at the amount of SIDS sufferers she had to come across, I don't see a problem with her warnings, I certainly don't think it's something to get worked up about. :confused:
Interesting..... because when I was in hospital and couldn't get my DS to settle the midwife suggested I co-sleep with him in the hospital bed which I did and still do (even though bub does have his own bed we still co-sleep).
I thought it was interesting that a hospital would encourage/allow me to co-sleep especially a newborn.
Mamaduke
01-07-2008, 11:38
Interesting..... because when I was in hospital and couldn't get my DS to settle the midwife suggested I co-sleep with him in the hospital bed which I did and still do (even though bub does have his own bed we still co-sleep).
I thought it was interesting that a hospital would encourage/allow me to co-sleep especially a newborn.
Depends on the hospital. I was told I could not co-sleep with Lucas when he was born because I was a c/section mother.
I did it anyway.
MummaBear03
01-07-2008, 11:45
Depends on the hospital. I was told I could not co-sleep with Lucas when he was born because I was a c/section mother.
I did it anyway.
That may have been more for your comfort than anything. I had the mw put the rail up on one side of the bed and put DD beside me on that side. I had no drugs during the birth so no drugs in my system, a non-smoker and hadn't had a drink of course being pregnant so it was considered safe to sleep like that. They said to just make sure my pillow was on an angle and not near her, and that she was asleep on top of my blanket, not under it, but wrapped in her own rug to keep her warm. There are safe ways of co-sleeping and unsafe ways of doing, just like there are safe ways of cot-sleeping and unsafe ways to sleep baby in a cot.
For all we know this poor coroner may very well be spewing about being misquoted anyway :detective:
Absolutely! Always worth keeping in mind ....
I think this researcher is probably distressed at the amount of SIDS sufferers she had to come across, I don't see a problem with her warnings,
Can you imagine how awful it must be to see dead baby after dead baby? Her JOB is to try and make sense of why those poor children have died, and political correctness etc can get in the way of that. She may have co-slept with her own children, but she has to draw her conclusions from the data she has in front of her - 34 dead babies. :angel:
Now there's a job I'd hate to do. Three cheers for that poor woman - REGARDLESS of her conclusions.
"Information is already provided by maternity hospitals and newborn units to new parents about the need to avoid sleeping with their baby in bed with them," he said.
I think this is the wrong conclusion. The term that springs to mind is "throwing the baby out with the bathwater".
There is nothing wrong with safe co-sleeping but they make out like there is.
:no:
Mamaduke
01-07-2008, 15:57
I think the SIDS group, while they do a great job, seem to just stab away at anything and everything they can think of which 'may' cause SIDS, without knowing anything for certain.
I just wonder why they were so intent on disproving the mattress theory that some scientist in NZ came out with...maybe because they didn't think of it?
I also don't think cot bumpers are as evil as SIDS would have us believe...
*waits for the :shame: and :eek: to come raining down*
lovebeingmummy
01-07-2008, 16:09
I agree.
I think its irresponsible for people to take things out of context and then say co-sleeping itself is unsafe. More babies die in their cot alone than die from safe co-sleeping. Unsafe co-sleeping shouldn't be lumped in with safe co-sleeping any more than any other unsafe practice.
More info here for those who want it:
http://www.nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/safe.html (http://www.nd.edu/%7Ejmckenn1/lab/safe.html)
:iagree::yelclap:
Hell, I'm still trying to figure out what a cot bumper is. Too busy :detective: to :shame:
But ... SIDS is a bit like asthma or cancer. It's a catch-all term created to describe something that happens, not what causes it. They can identify risk factors - some more convincing than others - but no one has ever claimed to have found the cause of SIDS.
Human nature is probably at fault: we all desperately want to understand HOW something so seemingly random and heartbreaking can happen. So we are willing to clutch at straws in our need to understand.
(Not that this denies the more convincing danger of smoking, overheating, and smothering bubs.)
Mamaduke
01-07-2008, 16:19
http://www.livingtextiles.com.au/Products-List.asp?CategoryID=93
Mamaduke
01-07-2008, 16:23
Just to add another theory to the mix...
(this is the one I was talking about earlier)
http://www.thecauseofsids.com/index.asp
lovebeingmummy
01-07-2008, 18:15
Interesting..... because when I was in hospital and couldn't get my DS to settle the midwife suggested I co-sleep with him in the hospital bed which I did and still do (even though bub does have his own bed we still co-sleep).
I thought it was interesting that a hospital would encourage/allow me to co-sleep especially a newborn.
Yes this happened with me as well:yes:
Interesting..... because when I was in hospital and couldn't get my DS to settle the midwife suggested I co-sleep with him in the hospital bed which I did and still do (even though bub does have his own bed we still co-sleep).
I thought it was interesting that a hospital would encourage/allow me to co-sleep especially a newborn.
Really!!!
when i was in hospital DD wouldnt settle and i was just laying in bed with her on my chest trying to get her to sleep and the mid-wife went nuts at me!:confused: going on about rolling on the baby etc, not that you can roll in a hospital bed (well i couldnt:p;))
i was a bit peeved as neither of us were asleep!!
i half co slept with DD she would sleep in her cot till her 3am feed then would sleep in my bed till 8 or when she woke up.
sam's mum
01-07-2008, 18:39
I co slept with DD1 and DS in two different hospitals. DD1 the midwife was the one who put her in with me, just told me not to put her under my blankets.
DS, the midwife saw that he was in with me and said - good idea, you won't have to be up and down to him, and also told me to not put him under my blankets.
I don't know if we will ever know what causes sids or not. I do know that they have shown that by doing certain things it greatly reduce it from happening, so I am going to do the things that reduce the risk.
I don't know if we will ever know what causes sids or not. I do know that they have shown that by doing certain things it greatly reduce it from happening, so I am going to do the things that reduce the risk.
Me too! thats why we didn't get the whooping cough vaccine.
But I guess that's a whole other thread...
Interesting..... because when I was in hospital and couldn't get my DS to settle the midwife suggested I co-sleep with him in the hospital bed which I did and still do (even though bub does have his own bed we still co-sleep).
I thought it was interesting that a hospital would encourage/allow me to co-sleep especially a newborn.
I had the same.... My dd was VERY unsettled in hospital, and wouldnt sleep... she hated the crib thing at the hospital with a passion, and as i was a c-sect, i had the catheter in, i couldnt get out of bed until the second day, and even then, was hard to get to her, was very hard to reach her to bring her to me, and the nurses were so busy, she'd be screaming by the time any of them could get her out for me. One of the mw even said to me at one stage "looks like you're wearing this baby".. anyway, they were the ones that suggested the cosleeping and setup the bed up so it was safe, and she slept much better, though i must admit, i didnt very well, as was still worried about rolling, etc...
She still has many days where she will sleep better with me, but i try to limit her sleeping with me in my bed, because i dont sleep to well, im a tosser and turner, and like to sleep on my tummy, so i cant get comfrtable and i worry about her... i just bring her in if she wakes up super early in the morning...great for these winter mornings...lol
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