Modified CC for younger baby?

[monkeytoes]

My 4 month old was a good sleeper. She would go down around 8pm and wake for a feed at 4am, then back to sleep until 7:30am.

3 weeks ago she got sick and has become a restless sleeper since then. She goes down at 7pm, then wakes around 9:00pm looking for her dummy. Wakes around 1:30am then wakes every half an hour :eek: looking for her dummy. She still has her 4am feed.

So basically I need to get rid of that dummy!!!

I used CC for my first daughter when she was 6 months and it worked a treat. I am just concerned that at 4 months DD2 is too young. Is there a modified version of CC that I can use on a 4 month old?

[Mrs Potts]

No doubt there will be plenty of posters come in and tell you not to consider it on such a young bub, but I disagree. We did a modified form of CC on DS when he was 6 weeks old, as he had barely slept since he was born. This was under the supervision of our CHN.

The basic principle is the same but you don't leave them for as long. Essentially you put bub to bed, then leave. As soon as they start crying you go in and rock or pat them in their bed. The best way we found was to turn bub on her side facing away from you and pat her bottom or gently rock her. Once she is quiet but not asleep (we used to wait until we could see the eyelids starting to get heavy) you leave the room again. This time when she starts crying you stay away for a minute, then resettle again. Then 2 minutes, but not longer. Keep repeating the 2 minute intervals.

Remember though, you need to listen to bub's cries. If you're out of the room for 2 minutes and when you're ready to go back in there are gaps in the crying then stay out a little longer. The gaps mean she is starting to self settle. Also remember, some babies need to cry to go to sleep. My DS was like that - the more we went in to settle him, the longer it would take for him to settle.

There is a great book called "Sleep Right, Sleep Tight" which goes over methods to use on younger (and older) bubs. It comes up with a Google search.

Good luck!

[Benji]

I used "CC" on DS when he was 9 months old and I was on the verge of running away.

I probably wouldn't use CC as a way of getting a dummy off a 4 month old baby, I've heard some people say that rather than putting the dummy back in bub's mouth, put it in her hand instead to encourage her to find it herself.

Maybe before resorting to CC, you could try to see if someone can help you for a few nights to settle the baby with no dummy - rocking, lullabyes, etc.

I think with a young bub I would only use CC as an absolute last resort, but of course in the end it's your baby and you know her best :)

As for the "babies cry for a reason" yes, they do. Often because they are tired and are trying to sleep! I swear, my DS was so sick of me picking him up all the time when he just wanted to grizzle for a while before going back to sleep lol.

Best of luck, I hope you all get a good sleep :hugs:

[Mrs Potts]

As for the "babies cry for a reason" yes, they do. Often because they are tired and are trying to sleep! I swear, my DS was so sick of me picking him up all the time when he just wanted to grizzle for a while before going back to sleep lol.

Angike, that was exactly the point I was making. For some babies, having a cry/grizzle is how they settle themselves. With my DS the more we tried to rock/pat him to sleep the more he would cry, the more tired he would become, and so the cycle would continue. Leaving him alone for a few minutes was what worked for him.

[Benji]

Angike, that was exactly the point I was making. For some babies, having a cry/grizzle is how they settle themselves. With my DS the more we tried to rock/pat him to sleep the more he would cry, the more tired he would become, and so the cycle would continue. Leaving him alone for a few minutes was what worked for him.

:yes: Mine was the same! The second I would hear him cry I was up and already rocking him in my arms and I did more harm than good doing that - he just wanted a bit of a grizzle and then back to sleep.

ETA: when I picked him up or hushed him, I was actually waking him up more, as opposed to settling him. He just wanted peace & quiet.

Wish I knew this in the beginning :rolleyes:

They're all so different. What works for one, won't necessarily work for another! :yes:

[forbetoel]

Will your baby self settle at all? I found with my babies just a couple minutes of grizzling and they would be asleep. Maybe you just need to try that. My babies all self settled and loved their sleep. If you put her down with a full belly, and nice dry bum, you might find that she falls asleep in just a few minutes on her own.

I personally would get rid of the dummy at night. She will forget about it really quickly at this age. Save the dummy for when you feel you have no other options. Lots of babies just wake out habit, including to look for the dummy. Maybe just keep the dummy for day sleeps.

Goodluck.

[Phyllis Stein]

OP,


I used CC for my first daughter when she was 6 months and it worked a treat. I am just concerned that at 4 months DD2 is too young. Is there a modified version of CC that I can use on a 4 month old?

4 months is too young for CC, according to every expert I've come across. The reasons for this are developmental, and are backed up by research. It's not just about the amount of time you leave them to cry. My 18 week old DS has periods of very broken sleep, which is completely normal for his age. Young babies are not meant to "sleep through" - babies that do are the exception rather than the rule.

If you want a broader range of opinions and non-cc options, you could post your question in the "No cry sleep solutions" or "sleeping/ settling" sections. I'm just saying this as your OP sounded doubtful about whether CC is the best thing for your daughter.

[monkeytoes]

My 18 week old DS has periods of very broken sleep, which is completely normal for his age. Young babies are not meant to "sleep through" - babies that do are the exception rather than the rule.

I realise young babies are not meant to sleep thru. That's not the reason I am considering CC. My baby is waking every half an hour looking for the dummy. I know I am feeling really tired from getting woken up every half an hour, I am sure it is not good for my baby to be woken up so often too.

Thanks to everyone who replied. Mrs Potts was the only one that actually answered my question.

[Mrs Potts]

Thanks to everyone who replied. Mrs Potts was the only one that actually answered my question.
Glad I could help, monkeytoes. Please feel free to PM me if you have any more question, as it seems you won't get what you need on the boards. :no:

[forbetoel]

Thanks to everyone who replied. Mrs Potts was the only one that actually answered my question.


:confused: huh? *shrugs* Well I tried. :cool:

[monkeytoes]

:confused: huh? *shrugs* Well I tried. :cool:

Sorry 4B2L, I wasn't having a go at you. I have already tried putting bubs down as you suggested and it doesn't work. Instead of a few grizzles and whinges I get up to an hour of screaming if I put her down without the dummy. My original question was "Is there a modified version of CC?".

For the others that posted..........I'm just annoyed at posting a question in the 'pro-CC' section and getting negative comments.

[~Bec~]

Grr, just typed a response and lost my connection :hissy:

Anyway, we did a watered down version of CC when DS was 4 months old. In summary it was all the usual stuff like making sure they are calm before you leave the room. The first time he cried was for 1 min the second was for 2 mins. We agreed that if he went on longer or cried again we would try and think of something else. This never happend though as he managed to get himself off to sleep. Anyway, the exercise was a success :thumbsup:

Hop things work out for you. :)

Can I just say I can't believe the audacity of some of the posts in this thread. :thumbsdown:

[Ange&Seth]

Monkeytoes - I'd try what Mrs Potts suggested, or perhaps you could try replacing the dummy with a different sort of comforter like a teddy or something? Just something a bit bigger than a dummy that bub can find easily if and when they wake.

Good luck with it. It can be exhausting for both you and bubs.

[GeorgeousGirlBubbas]

Monkeytoes, i have a four month old and i have my own modified version of cc. :)

I let her cry for 3 minutes then put the dummy back in each time. If she hasn't gone to sleep after 15 minutes of doing this, i pick her up and rock her off to sleep which doesn't take long.

I have been doing this for the last two weeks and now im able to wrap her up put her into bed, and i only need to go in once at 3 minutes to put the dummy in and she is asleep.

I believe she is crying because she wants to go to sleep but cant do it by herself. There is no other reason and people who suggest there is shouldn't comment, you know your child.

[forbetoel]

Baby's do most certainly cry becasue they just want to sleep. Some don't want to be held, rocked or patted...they just want sleep.

[guerin]

Constantly going in and pestering an overtired child is cruel which is what you do when you have silly ideas that children will never cry your ability to be rational goes out the window.

Yes she is crying for a reason, she is overtired and needs to be given time to settle. This happens and people who put unrealistic and quite frankly wrong ideas into mothers heads so they do the exact opposite of what the child needs are not helping and someone needs to tell them that.

Leaving an overtired child for 2 minutes so they have time to settle and go to sleep which is what they need is not cruel. Keeping an overtired child awake because you go in as soon as you hear them cry and don't give them that time to settle causes them to stay awake longer, causes them to get less sleep, causes distress. I think we have all seen a child so tired that they start to scream. I think we have all learnt what constant pestering can do.

If you chose not to cc then don't.

[Verdi]

Great post ^^

I did control cry with 3 of my kids my oldest was great from the start.
I did it from 8 weeks.
I certainly agree that babies cry cause they are tired, i also believe that a child that learns to settle to sleep is a very happy one.

Mr potts gave very good advie. i also might siggest maybe some soft music or noise in the background some babies feel alot more comforted by the noise.

Goodluck with it all.

[meggs11]

My son was a terrible sleeper in the day from newborn to 4 months, at night he was good, self settled from a young age. I used a gentle CC on him with my childhood health nurses input and after a sleep clinic. It worked for us and we were both happier.

The point is, of course all babies cry for a reason, that is how they communicate.

I think any mother who is using CC is doing it because they have tried many other things.

I am sure monkeytoes has checked for all of the other reasons, I am sure her baby is fed, warm and dry etc all of her possible needs are met that she can think of.

It may just be that the baby is over tired which makes it hard to settle, babies sleep in roughly 40minute cycles, so if she is waking every half an hour she isn't getting to that deep sleep, so I agree to try some CC, take the dummy away if that is what is forcing her to wake up when she loses it, play the same music every time you settle her, so she gets used to the idea. That is why if your bub is only catnapping, it is worth trying to leave them if they wake after half an hour or patting/rocking.

I will warn you though, it can take some time, it can be distressing to hear your baby cry, but it does improve most days for most people to a point where your baby should settle themselves. And it is usually a quick process, a couple of weeks should have you seeing a difference.

But then ONLY if you are comfortable trying this sort of a routine, if you are a mum who rocks her baby to sleep or carries them around to sleep or bubs goes to sleep at the breast and it works for you then that is great.

It is such an individual thing and I don't think it is as black and white as some people tend to think.

Meagan

[FishFace]

I think 4 months is too young to be doing CC...and taking away comforts like a dummy.

Its such a young age and she may just be at a growth stage which is causing her sleep to go astray.

If you REALLLY have to then try patting to sleep and if tis really getting to you maybe go to a sleep school..?

I have doen CC with my son but he was10 - 12 months...

I think 4 months is a hard one as they still dont have any knowledge of trust in you and are still forming comfort bonds.

[monkeytoes]

Wow........didn't realise my thread would be so contoversial. Thanks for all your advice.

Still having the wake up issues due to the dummy falling out. We have gentle music playing in her room all night long, she has a warm bath, clean nappy, warm PJ's, a BF then off to bed at 7pm. We've tried warming her room with a heater before putting her down. We've tried having the room dark, and having a night light on. I've even tried giving her formula as her last feed. Nothing seems to help. So DH and I have agreed that the dummy is causing more harm than good. We have organised for our toddler to spend some time with grandparents this weekend so that we can concentrate on DD2.
We are going to try and swap the dummy for a comfort teddy and do a gentle version of CC (something like what Mrs Potts suggested:thumbsup:).

Will let you know how we go.:fingerscrossed:

[jaq]

Hi there monkeytoes,

I was going to suggest the dummy might be the problem, but you beat me to it! I'm not anti-dummy, but in this case it's obviously falling out and waking her ... she should sleep better without it (though you are likely to have a tough few days as she adjusts and she'll need extra comforting then).

The only other thing I have to say is that 4 months is a time when their sleeping patterns are still emerging - you may find she is going through a generally unsettled period as a part of her development. Or maybe it was just the cold?

My point is basically wait two weeks and you might get your happy sleeper back. Or not. Unpredictable little creatures are that age!

Good luck with it all. :D

(And the very words CC in any forum can launch an avalanche of discontent .... next time try breast or bottle, or circumcision if you want to keep up the hit rate ;))

[meggs11]

(And the very words CC in any forum can launch an avalanche of discontent .... next time try breast or bottle, or circumcision if you want to keep up the hit rate ;))

:laughing: Too true Jaq!!!!! ROTFL!!!!:laughing:

[Meadow]

No doubt there will be plenty of posters come in and tell you not to consider it on such a young bub, but I disagree. We did a modified form of CC on DS when he was 6 weeks old, as he had barely slept since he was born. This was under the supervision of our CHN.

The basic principle is the same but you don't leave them for as long. Essentially you put bub to bed, then leave. As soon as they start crying you go in and rock or pat them in their bed. The best way we found was to turn bub on her side facing away from you and pat her bottom or gently rock her. Once she is quiet but not asleep (we used to wait until we could see the eyelids starting to get heavy) you leave the room again. This time when she starts crying you stay away for a minute, then resettle again. Then 2 minutes, but not longer. Keep repeating the 2 minute intervals.

Remember though, you need to listen to bub's cries. If you're out of the room for 2 minutes and when you're ready to go back in there are gaps in the crying then stay out a little longer. The gaps mean she is starting to self settle. Also remember, some babies need to cry to go to sleep. My DS was like that - the more we went in to settle him, the longer it would take for him to settle.

There is a great book called "Sleep Right, Sleep Tight" which goes over methods to use on younger (and older) bubs. It comes up with a Google search.

Good luck!

Hi there monkeytoes, this is an excellent post by mrs potts. IMO if you follow this you won't go far wrong. Just be aware and attentive to the 'sound' of the crying so that you can attend to her the moment she starts to get distressed.

Its so very hard to be so exhausted that it's difficult to function, but I think if you follow this excellent piece of advice all your sleeping problems will hopefully soon be resolved. :hugs:

[Phyllis Stein]

FYI, even that book only recommends CC for "older babies and toddlers". :) [quoted from the author, Tweddle's website].

[FishFace]

Ok even I am confused now.

CC is only recommended for much older babies.

I know this is pro cc and yes I have done it myself but please..we cant go round suggesting newborns are left to cry.
They only just arrived.

My puppy used to cry when he first came home and I didnt even leave him on his own.

I dont want to be judgemental..I KNOW how tiring a new bubba is but in a few months you will be thinking back to this time and remembering how sweet and totally new she was.

You will get back to sleep...it doesnt go forever..

I mean this with the most love and respect!

[forbetoel]

.

I know this is pro cc and yes I have done it myself but please..we cant go round suggesting newborns are left to cry.
They only just arrived.


!


I don't think anyone has suggested that, and if they did....well that is not even CC.

The OP was actually talking about her 4 month old, but the thread has moved away from that.

[FishFace]

I don't think anyone has suggested that, and if they did....well that is not even CC.

The OP was actually talking about her 4 month old, but the thread has moved away from that.


ahh I see a 4 month old as newborn..lol..

Still too little to be left to cry.

But its JMO and to be honest I have done CC with my son just a different age and i thought the recommendation was always over 6 months?

Sorry if I read the thread wrong..
4B just follow me round tonight and help me out ok?:hugs::hugs:

[forbetoel]

4B just follow me round tonight and help me out ok?:hugs::hugs:

:laughing: I am a bit of a stalker today aren't I?

[Phyllis Stein]

I agree with Sass. I believe it's pretty irresponsible for people to encourage its use on a young baby, as though there's no risk of harm, when most health professionals discourage it.

[FishFace]

:laughing: I am a bit of a stalker today aren't I?

nah stalkers are unwanted Lol..

More like a mother in law
hahahahahahahahha

:thumbsup::hugs:

[forbetoel]

Oh well that is O.K, as I like my MIL. She gave birth to my DH. :flowerz:

[FishFace]

I agree with Sass. I believe it's pretty irresponsible for people to encourage its use on a young baby, as though there's no risk of harm, when most health professionals discourage it.

Thats what I am trying to say...
Phew..someone gets me...lol.

I just think a forum is a bad place to suggest something that is clearly dicouraged by experts...

[forbetoel]

Thats what I am trying to say...
Phew..someone gets me...lol.

I just think a forum is a bad place to suggest something that is clearly dicouraged by experts...





And luckily the OP is the expert in her baby. I am sure she will make whatever she decides feels is right.

She was asking about modified versions of CC, so lets give her a break.

[FishFace]

Ok I cant leave well alone can I ?
Lol..
4b I love ya ok..

But....lol...


I know we all know our babies best but ...if we start saying well its ok you know your baby, it could get dangerous.

theres a reason they say the ages they do.

I wont go into other things but as soon as we start allowing ourselves to go against the experts, we are in dangerous territory.

I am not anti CC I am just anit going to far into allowing a mother to decide whats best against the guidelines..
I mean what if a mum was just sleep deprived and didnt know any other way out?
She thinks CC is fine cos right now thats all that she has...?

But if she got some advice sayign no ..lets try another way, then she has more.

I am all for non judgement BUT there are reasons they say not till over 6 months...even modified.

[forbetoel]

The point is the OP said she wasn't comfy with CC on her 4 month old and was looking for a 'modified' version. Modified can be as simple as putting her baby down clean and dry with a full belly and then see if she will fall to sleep with no more than a bit of grizzling, which I myslef have done with my babies.

[Phyllis Stein]

I can't leave well enough alone, either. :D

The only real modification that's been suggested though, is to reduce the time waited, and that's not the only reason infant mental health professionals say not to use it before 6 months. It's more to do with the stage of development a baby of that age has attained, i.e. the level of attachment/ security the baby has developed.

4B2L, what you just suggested is what I do, too. I don't think it has anything to do with CC. :confused:

[~Bec~]

The only real modification that's been suggested though, is to reduce the time waited


I posted in this thread about the modified version we used on DS at 4 months which included not only reducing the amount of time left to grizzle/cry but also limit the amount of times left to cry.

[Phyllis Stein]

Anyway, we did a watered down version of CC when DS was 4 months old. In summary it was all the usual stuff like making sure they are calm before you leave the room. The first time he cried was for 1 min the second was for 2 mins. We agreed that if he went on longer or cried again we would try and think of something else. This never happend though as he managed to get himself off to sleep. Anyway, the exercise was a success


The only modification you suggested was to reduce the time period. Other than that, you simply made the personal decision not to continue if it didn't succeed within a certain time frame.

[Mrs Potts]

I just think a forum is a bad place to suggest something that is clearly dicouraged by experts...
See that's the thing - modified controlled comforting ISN'T discouraged by experts/health professionals/call them whatever you like. If it were, why would centres like Tresillian (as an example, insert the name of your local sleep school) and MCHN continue to use/recommend these methods on babies as young as 6 weeks? In our current litigious climate I can hardly see them encouraging practices that have proven to be detrimental to the well-being of infants. And don't try to tell me that they don't - I have been there and we did it.

[Benji]

I saw 2 doctors who recommended CC for DS.

[xkwzit]

A number of off topic posts have been deleted from this thread. Does any one have any further to add to address the OP which was (in part):

I used CC for my first daughter when she was 6 months and it worked a treat. I am just concerned that at 4 months DD2 is too young. Is there a modified version of CC that I can use on a 4 month old?

[Verdi]

I agree with Sass. I believe it's pretty irresponsible for people to encourage its use on a young baby, as though there's no risk of harm, when most health professionals discourage it.
That is disputable comming from a nursing background myself i have not found this to be the case.

To the Op if you feel comfortable with doing then go ahead you are the mother you are the one who has the istincts, you will find it in yourself what is right, you know it cause it feels right.
Books and so called experts have been wrong on so many counts, thats why it is very important for you to by your instincts we all have them, what is right for you is just that.

if it worked for you in the past and you feel okay with it then i see no problem with it.:hugs:

[Ange&Seth]

4B2L, what you just suggested is what I do, too. I don't think it has anything to do with CC. :confused:

I really believe that everyone has a different idea of what CC actually means. I thought we CC'd our boy but after numerous attacks by other members on here I found out that what we actually did was classed as Controlled Comforting.

I have no doubt that leaving a child to cry hysterically or in distress COULD be detrimental to their health but that's NOT what we did and I'm fairly sure that's not what alot of people have done. So yes, when people got up me for 'neglecting' my child, of course I was offended.

It all comes back to peoples interpretation of what Controlled Crying is - maybe we need to label it further to Controlled Grizzling, Controlled Babbling, Controlled Sooking etc etc :laughing:

[forbetoel]

4B2L, what you just suggested is what I do, too. I don't think it has anything to do with CC. :confused:

Maybe the problem is that we all have different ideas on what exactly CC is.

I have only done what I thought was CC with my then 16 month old son. I won't go into boring details, but after he cried for about 10minutes, he fell asleep and that was the end of it. He just continued to sleep though after that. I never needed to do anything else, and it was such a life saver for me at the time and for the rest of the family.

Anyway, I do think that letting a baby grizzle themselves to sleep is a modified version of CC, considering there are some mums who never sleep without thier child, let alone letting them self settle, and those who will pick their baby up at the first squeek, so I do think it is probally a very valid answer to the OP's question.

[Meadow]

I agree with Sass. I believe it's pretty irresponsible for people to encourage its use on a young baby, as though there's no risk of harm, when most health professionals discourage it.

Health Professionals? There are things that health professionals actively encourage that I personally disagree with, such as vaccination, so...meh....I take everything anyone calling themselves an expert says with a hearty dose of skepticism.
Monkeytoes, experts and health professionals are chopping and changing their minds all the time. It's enough to drive anyone complete batty all this chopping and changing and disagreement of opinion that goes. In the end, all we have is our own intrinsic belief and understanding about our own babies and our own health and how we can best balance that.
Monekytoes if you know in your own heart that it is right for you and your own baby then that is all you need; you don't need permission or approval from anyone else. :thumbsup:
Good luck with everything!!

[xkwzit]

This thread is now closed, thanks to all who answered the OP's question.

Cheers