Question for non-vaccinators

[Mister Noodle]

A simple question for those that choose not to vaccinate your children:

If you had to choose, would you raise your non-vaccinated child where virtually everybody else vaccinates their child, or a country where virtually nobobdy vaccinates their child?

State your reasons.

[tammac77]

Very interesting question - even more interesting that no non-vaccinators have taken the poll.

I vaccinate, and though I feel it is every parents right to choose what they think is best for their babies, it sometimes annoys me that it is us that vaccinate who protect those who don't.

I don't think any parent who hasn't vaccinated their child would risk taking them in to a country where children aren't vaccinated. The argument against vaccination is about protecting children from possible side effects, so they would also want to protect them from visiting places where these diseases are present.

I know there are risks with vaccinations but who wants to go back to the days when thousands of children died every year from preventable diseases. Not me.

[EskimoMumma]

I am a very avid vaccinator, and i feel that every child should, no one needs to die of preventable illness's now adays. and thats good :smiliedance:

[pegasus]

This should perhaps be elsewhere, but did anyone hear yesterday of the measles cases that are being found at the moment in Australia after some people went to a seminar given by a gentleman from Sri Lanka. Apparently more cases were being discovered....

[MamaSage]

We will be putting off travelling to Asian countries until Bridie is older as I am not willing to vax her. It is not realy an issue though, as I am not willing to have the jabe either.
And I DO raise my child where virtually everyone else vaccinates! Non vaxers are still the minority. As for the question, I think you need to be more specific. If you are talking about India, where disease is rampant, that is one thing. But there are European countries where the instance of disease os low and people do not vax as much.
And at the end of the day, if vaxing was a 100% risk free exercise, with 100% coverage against preventing disease, I would do it. But it is not.

[SugarBlossom]

I'm a non vaxer and to me this question is irrelevent and not even a consideration in my decision. So I will not be voting in the poll

[cosmic]

That question is impossible to answer. Which country? What diseases do they have? What's their supply of clean water and nutritious food like? etc etc etc etc etc......

[the_queen]

I'm a non vaxer and to me this question is irrelevent and not even a consideration in my decision. So I will not be voting in the poll

Exactly why I haven't voted in the poll or contributed to this discussion.

[MamaSage]

I didn't actually vote either. :rolleyes:

[Tea Lady]

I think that the point Mr N is trying to make (correct me if I'm wrong!- I'm sure you won't hesitate :laughing: ) is that people who don't vax need people who do vax to take the risks with their kids that they are not willing to take with their own kids in order to maintain a low risk of disease (did that make sense?).

That was what I thought the point of the poll was but if it wasn't I will happily be corrected :)

[Sarie]

Yup I got that too. Though I'm a vaxer... so I can't vote.:D

[reAllytee]

I think that the point Mr N is trying to make (correct me if I'm wrong!- I'm sure you won't hesitate :laughing: ) is that people who don't vax need people who do vax to take the risks with their kids that they are not willing to take with their own kids in order to maintain a low risk of disease (did that make sense?).

That was what I thought the point of the poll was but if it wasn't I will happily be corrected :)


Yep thats how im seeing it.
But i also cant vote due to being a vaxxer.
Can understand why some would be offended however.

[the_queen]

I can only make as informed a decision as possible, based on my family and my situation. So if I lived in the slums of India, I'm sure the issues I had to consider would be entirely different.

[sunnyflower]

yes i am a firm believer in vaccinations,sorry but to the non-vaccinators out there,i feel as though your attitude is a bit selfish.if we all had the same attitude as you guys do,i.e did not vaccinate our kids,these deadly diseases would be running rampant and then where would your children be?

[misskittyfantastico]

I don't know if that's really on topic sunnyflower:) the decision to vax or not is an incredibly personal decision and one that is made generally after an awful lot of research.:)

[MamaSage]

Sunnyflower, we have been there ;) Lets not go there again.

[Chickadee]

The pros and cons of vaccination have been discussed elsewhere, or a new thread could be started if members really want to debate it again. Please stick to the original question posed.

[sunnyflower]

however the question still remains,if the majority of us did not vaccinate our children in this country what would be the risk to your children helathwise?

[Mum&bubs]

I choose to vax but i dont judge ppl who dont coz they have their reasons but i do get a bit upset at people (e.g my friend) who does not vax her baby because she doesnt want to deal with him being sick for 2 days.

[xkwzit]

Aijent, you've gone and corrupted the sample :shame: Skewed results here now. (not that I can see them, cause I haven't voted either :laughing: )

Cheers

[Mister Noodle]

Tea Lady:

Exactly. I do get the feeling that people are happy to take a free ride on the health benefits that widespread vaccination provides to the community - they just don't want to pay the fare.

And to clarify, for those delaying their vote: just assume two countries just exactly like Australia - same standards of living, same resources, same everything, but all the vaccinators emigrated to one, and all the non-vaccinators emigrated to the other.

Do you expect that there would be no noticeable difference in the health of the population at large? Where would you prefer that your child grew up?

[SugarBlossom]

Ummm, just want to say that as a non vaxer I'm not "taking a free ride"

I have made an INFORMED choice and that choice was not easy to make.

I think that the question is totally irrelevent and did not play any part in my decision...as I have already said

[Mister Noodle]

I wasn't asking whether the question had any bearing on your decision. I'm asking where you'd rather live, having made it.

If you had to choose between one of the two countries, which one would it be?

Why are you afraid to answer?

[SugarBlossom]

it is certainly not about being afraid!:laughing:

I actually think it is the other way around!

The question is just so stupid and irrelevent I still am not going to bother putting the time in to think about it.

No offense to you mr noodle:)

[xkwzit]

I'm not sure that anyone is afraid to answer...

I did have a similar thought when trying to decide whether to vax. In my perfect world, everyone else would be fully vaccinated and I wouldn't have to vax my kids. And that thought is what showed me the truth. I do believe that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks - therefore I must vaccinate.

However, the poll question (I believe) is not relevant to non-vaxxers (and please correct me if I am falsely representing you lovely ppl ;) ). Non vaxxers do not believe that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks. So they either believe that:
a) the actual risk of a serious disease is pretty low
b) the risk of the vaccination is too high

So ppl who believe a) will not think there is any real difference in the two places for the poll and ppl who believe b) still believe b) even if there is increase in risk of disease in the non-vaxxed place, given their view of the high risk of vaccination.

Its all about risk assessement...and we've all got different views

[WeThree]

It is a very interesting question Mr Noodle, and although Im very much respectful of parents making an informed choice regarding their child and vax, id be interested in actually reading some answers (i dont think anyone actually has yet :confused: ) i had never thought of it like that before, is it up to me to inject my children with all that **** so that others dont have to?? if someone who doesnt vax lived in a place like india or africa, would they then vax? oh they things you are making me ponder now mr noodle!! I am now genuinly curious, as i sit on the fence a bit regarding vaccination, in fact we have not had Tillys done since 4 mths,( my DH is against them), i am not here to poke fun or judge, just would love to see what people think about this :)

[xkwzit]

Hi Erin
I see that this has tickled your curiosity.

I don't think of vaxxing as protecting society at large (that would bring out the worst in me:D ), I do it because I believe that the benefits of immunisation outweigh the risks for my children.

Cheers

[WeThree]

Indeed it has X :D

[Pippi Longstocking]

However, the poll question (I believe) is not relevant to non-vaxxers (and please correct me if I am falsely representing you lovely ppl ). Non vaxxers do not believe that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks. So they either believe that:
a) the actual risk of a serious disease is pretty low
b) the risk of the vaccination is too high

So ppl who believe a) will not think there is any real difference in the two places for the poll and ppl who believe b) still believe b) even if there is increase in risk of disease in the non-vaxxed place, given their view of the high risk of vaccination.


'Zactly! I believe that here in Australia, where I happen to live at the moment and therefore can base my decision on the current health situation now rather than on an imaginary scenario based on a ridiculous hypothesis, my child will be MORE at risk if I chose to vaccinate her.
What would I do if I lived overseas? What would I do if a blue monkey flew out of my @ss? Who knows - it isn't the case and am currently and always have been free of rectum-dwelling blue monkeys ;)

[DoulaFelicity]

Weren't Mister Noodle's bewilderingly irrelevant analogies and theorising on the selfishness of non vaxers amply addressed in this previous thread?

http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=16342&page=7

Why has a new thread been started for the same views to be repeatedly espoused?

We understand your feelings, can we move on? This repetition seems designed solely to stir the pot and offend.

[cosmic]

...vulnerable people are being influenced by others they beleive more knowledgable then themselves without knowing the complete story
I agree aijent. More people should be pointed in the direction of that research we are all talking about so that they are influenced by real information, not ridiculous hypothetical polls. :)

[Mister Noodle]

It's really a very simple question, and methinks miladies do protest a little too much.

If hypothetical questions are really so foreign to people (I use them, along with analogy and metaphor to isolate principles from the surrounding details, but oh well), the non-hypothetical version is this:

Do you feel that the widespread vaccination in the general population at large provides significant protection to your unvaccinated child, by limiting the spread of infections through the community?

Or is there a reason why you couldn't possibly answer that, either?

[DoulaFelicity]

Mister Noodle, your questions were answered several times over by multiple members in the aforementioned thread. I really don't understand why you're repeating them here as if they haven't been. Nor do I understand why you're squaring up to non-vaxxers and doing the equivalent of jeering "chicken, are ya?!" in their face when they get tired of repeating themselves and being insulted.

I think everyone understands what an analogy is. It's just that yours in particular are ineffective; they don't make sense and they have no relation (neither on a metaphorical nor a literal level) to the topic at hand.

And when your ladies arrive, I'll let them know you think they're protesting too much.

[SugarBlossom]

Ditto what doula felicity said!

[Mister Noodle]

DF: Actually, no, I haven't received a single straight answer on the actual question I've been asking.

I've been told lots of times that people think that vaccinating carries a higher risk to their child than the risk of the disease it's intended to prevent. Lots and lots of times. If I'd been aksing that question, I'd have been answered a hundred times over.

But I wasn't asking that question.

I've been told lots of times that people don't believe that unvaccinated children are necessarily infected.

And I most certainly was not asking that question, either.

I've also been told that people don't believe that unvaccinated children pose any kind of risk to others. I don't agree, but here's news for you:

I'm not asking that question either, in this thread.

I'm asking whether people feel that having a mostly-vaccinated population around them affords more protection to an unvaccinated person than a mostly-unvaccinated population would.

And nobody wants to answer that question. They'll go to great lengths to explain why they can't bring themselves to type a single word in direct answer (or even a direct answer involving as many words as they want), they'll attack the question, they'll attack me, they'll change the subject, or most commonly, they'll creatively misinterpret it in order to give one of the answers listed above. (this latter tactic is known as the Straw man fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man_fallacy) - but it's usually applied to arguments, not to questions.)

And in my experience, people generally only do this in cases of great insecurity, or cognitive dissonance. However, I'm more than happy to be proved wrong on this.

[WeThree]

Do you feel that the widespread vaccination in the general population at large provides significant protection to your unvaccinated child, by limiting the spread of infections through the community?

Or is there a reason why you couldn't possibly answer that, either?

your right mr noodle, not a single person has answered this question, so i will :D
having one child who is not fully immunised i believe that yes, the reason that i can do this is because the majority of children ARE immunised so my dh and have the luxury of deciding to vax her or not, if i lived in a country surrounded by unimmunised people and the diseases were running rampant, then in that situation i would give them to her in a heartbeat.

[SugarBlossom]

Look Mister Noodle, as I have already said, I hold no fear or insecurity. (what the? sort of statement is that?:rolleyes: )

As I have already said the question is stupid and irrelevent

I think you are a pot stirrer.

If you haven't got the message in the numerous threads you have participated in about vaxxing....hmmmm will you ever?:confused:

People are allowed to make an informed choice. People are also different, and thats no reason hang cr*p on them and be all condesending.

Thats whats beautiful about this world, we are all different.

So just let it go.

[Mister Noodle]

And the most amazing thing of all?

You still completely avoided the question.

Why am I not surprised?

[WeThree]

are you referring to me mr noodle? :confused:

[Mister Noodle]

Coops:

Argh, double crosspost.

Thank you for the answer - it's hugely appreciated. :)

My reply was to LBB

And my timing is atrocious

[draught]

Okay people let's calm it down. As the attacks are becoming personal and the question seems doomed to not be answered lets leave it alone. If this behaviour continues the thread will be closed which seems unfortunate given that a few people have professed to be looking at the question from a different perspective for the first time.

[WeThree]

ahhh, i guess not :)

[SugarBlossom]

mr noodle....hello??:confused: ......let it go.....

[WeThree]

little buddah baby, if you dont find it interesting, then perhaps you could let it go? just dont reply, some of us are genuinly curious about this. :)

[xkwzit]

Now I'm absolutley not stirring, but genuinely interested, as I truly believed that the majority of non-vaxxers don't think that immunisation provides all that much protection (or at least not enough to risk the side effects of immunisation)....

Erin, you say that the fact that most children are immunised gives you the luxury of not immunising (at the moment). But with that philosophy (and this is directed to anyone with the same idea, not specifically Erin): aren't you currently sabotaging the very same environment that you are trusting to safeguard your child?

Only asking because I'm curious too

Cheers

[SugarBlossom]

your right.

the original author just got under my skin with the below the belt comments. lol silly really.:rolleyes:

LBB signing off now:smiliedance:

[WeThree]

Erin, you say that the fact that most children are immunised gives you the luxury of not immunising (at the moment). But with that philosophy (and this is directed to anyone with the same idea, not specifically Erin): aren't you currently sabotaging the very same environment that you are trusting to safeguard your child?

Only asking because I'm curious too

Cheers

I guess i probably am, its one of the questions i ask myself. how many people would have to start not vaxing in order for it to become unsafe to not have my child vaxed? is it a luxury? i think it probably is, i feel privileged to live in a country where we have this option open to us.

[WeThree]

Thanks aijent :)

[Mister Noodle]

Coops: I guess my concern is that not only is it sabotaging your own advantage... but even below the level of one's own effects on society, it seems a bit unethical.

Everyone else takes the risks and so contributes to the greater good - it doesn't seem right to take advantage of everyone's cost but one's own.

Nesspar?

[WeThree]

I agree. It is one of the things I battle with in my decision to vax or not. It is the reason my oldest son is fully vaxed, but my DH is againt vaccinating and he has shown me things I had not thought of before, however I am still very much on the fence about it, I guess that is why I am so interested in others responses on this topic.

[MonkeyMum05]

I believe in vaccintating my child/children... so far.
Humans are ever evolving... and if a disease has become 'preventable', then I'm going to 'prevent' my child from getting it... as far as possible. Thats part of evolution, isn't it? Why would I try to stop evolution?!

DISLAIMER: I have had two beers, so If the above makes no sense... its the beer!!!!!!:D

[youngbrismum]

This is my first visit to the Bub Hub and to be honest I am amazed at the negativity been thrown back and forth between pro-vax and con-vax.

Every mother wants what is best for her child/ren and therefore makes the decision she thinks is best. How can we criticize each other for that? Those of you who choose to vaccinate, thats great, and those who choose not to, that is great too.

I find it interesting that as non-vaxers we are constantly asked why we do not vaccinate and yet we never ask why do you?.

Brooke

[Mister Noodle]

Doesn't that completely devalue both sides?

If doing X is exactly as wonderful as not doing X... there can't be very much wonderfulness floating around. In fact, you're pretty much stating that it's competely neutral.

And the reason that nobody calls people out for vaccinating their children is that doing so doesn't increase the risk to anyone else. Widespread vaccination is the single most effective public health intervention in the history of mankind. The spread of utterly devastating epidemics has been reduced a hundredfold or more. There's just very little fault to find with that.

[Pippi Longstocking]

The spread of utterly devastating epidemics has been reduced a hundredfold or more.

Yes, it has. But I don't attribute that to immunisation. I think it has more to do with a much higher level of hygeine, better nutrition, and a natural decline in disease rates, as has been demonstrated to occur throughout history.


Before the first Salk vaccine trials, polio incidence had already declined greatly. Decline was even greater by the time the Salk and Sabine vaccines came into widespread use. The intensive use in 1958 was followed by more than a doubling of incidence. At no time after the introduction of the two vaccines against polio was decline greater than before vaccine introduction.
http://www.vaclib.org/basic/polio.htm

Human beings also have the ability to adapt to different diseases, which I believe has also contributed to the decline in contagious illness rates.

[CarolineF]

As those of us who have vaxed have been told in no uncertain terms that we are not welcome to comment or write in the non-vaxxers thread - I just wanted to add a comment or 2 about something said in that thread about the big drug companies and those of us who vacs being to bullied into it, not having researched and being like sheep etc

1. I did research, my mother's a maternity nurse and we had many discussions on the topic as well as speaking to other parents and drs about it.

To assume that those who vacs only did it cos of a lack of effort, knowledge or being just plain bullied is offensive.

2. Doctors and drug companies are there for a reason. They help people with cancer, with the flu, with all types of illnesses. Its because of the drug companies and researchers that most of the dreadful diseases of the past have been wiped out or are dormant e.g. small pox etc. It was due to the small pox vax that it was wiped out in the UK and Australia....it still exists in many other countries. Both my parents have cancer but both are still alive notwithstanding being diagnosed some time ago. My mother had Stage 111 Ovarian Cancer - she was said to be terminally ill. She has survived because of the invention of new drugs, the intervention of great doctors.

Yes the drug companies make a lot of money, but they also spend a lot on research and they save a lot of lives. If a child contracts measles etc one would assume you would not leave it to nature to cure it, but would see your doc and ask for the appropriate medication. I have just chosen to shut the stable door BEFORE the horse bolts.

Vaxing is a very personal decision, I understand the reasons why people don';t do it. I respect that. But to assume that one set over the other is right is wrong. Pro vaxers took time coming to a decision just a much as the anti vaxers did.

I really ummed and ahhed about writing this, but we are all parents and should support each others decisions rather than berate them. Everybody has their own personal experiences which should be remembered when people are coming out with bland unsubstantiated comments. My daughter was kept alive by these drug companies. I for one, thank them for all they do.:ecomcity: :smiliedance:

[CarolineF]

p.s. I am sorry if I ranted, but my family has had a horrid few years with illness and its just a sore topic. I know they would not be alive without interventions, I know that the drugs may well have only extended their lives rather than cure.....but just think of what this world would be without those companies.

I am sorry. :(

[CarolineF]

"never the twain shall meet" - :sleeping:

why can't we all agree to disagree? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I have mine and, if anything, what I have read on this forum has only strengthened my view.

It is clear that there are 2 diametrically opposing views. Once someone has taken a view and jumped in one camp or the other there is absolutley nothing that can be done or said to persuade the other's views. That's Life.

Just on the point of the thread.....it is interesting to note that only one person has actually answered the question asked...I know that must have been difficult coopsntilly. I follow where you are coming from.....I don't agree but that's the point of a democracy. I am not sure why the non-vaxers find the question offensive. I am sure it is asked purely out of curiousity rather than trying to identify people to shake a stick at. I am curious cos yesterday someone had a go at me for even suggesting that some parents may choose not to vax cos they benefit from the fact others do. Listen I am sure I have done the same on other issues.:rolleyes:

Coopsntilly, I am interested in your response - and just wish to take it one step further - if the vax rates did drop to a level here in Oz where some of these diseases were on the up again - would you change your mind and then consider vaxing?

I am only asking cos in the UK - 81% total vax rate (target is 95%) there has been a resurgence of measels and mumps partly as a result of people panicking about the MMR, and partly as a result of students who did not gain the benefit of vaxs as kids cos they had not been introduced fully. I accept that it is a smaller more densely populated country, but what would you do then?

These debates are interesting and valuable in helping others reach a decision and they show that there are areas of grey.

Hope you all have a good morning.:smiliedance:

[youngbrismum]

I still can't believe this negativity. Mister Noodle I feel like you have attacked me for simply stating that it is a mother's choice and that she has that right to choose. I am saying that doing what we feel best is "great" and that noone should feel degraded for that decision.

I also agree that a downhill trend in disease had been linked with vaccination when infact that trend had begun far before vaccinations were introduced.

Brooke

[mysonroger]

yes i am a firm believer in vaccinations,sorry but to the non-vaccinators out there,i feel as though your attitude is a bit selfish.if we all had the same attitude as you guys do,i.e did not vaccinate our kids,these deadly diseases would be running rampant and then where would your children be?

good girl. well said.

[mysonroger]

I don't know if that's really on topic sunnyflower:) the decision to vax or not is an incredibly personal decision and one that is made generally after an awful lot of research.:)

lets hope the research is objective and both arguements well covered. a lot of the time people look for evidence that only supports what they were already thinking. unintentionally biased. happens in all research.

[MamaSage]

good girl. well said. i look at non-vaccinators as selfish too.

Why is it ok for comments like this to be said, when if the same comment was said about people choosing to feed with artificial baby milk would be frowned on.
I think people who follow the crowd and do not research things themselves are stupid. I guess I'll be busted for saying that though.

[the_queen]

i look at non-vaccinators as selfish too.


Hmm. See, if I said I LOOK AT VACCINATORS AS IGNORANT AND UN-INFORMED then I'd be the one getting censored and warned about the UA.



By the way, I don't think vaccinators are ignorant or un-informed. I think there are plenty of ignorant people in the world, regardless of whether or not they vaccinate their children.

[mysonroger]

it is certainly not about being afraid!:laughing:

I actually think it is the other way around!

The question is just so stupid and irrelevent I still am not going to bother putting the time in to think about it.

No offense to you mr noodle:)

i got the question from the start, but agree that the parameters had to be set a little firmer. i don't think its stupid at all. i don't see what so hard about answering it.

[mysonroger]

Hmm. See, if I said I LOOK AT VACCINATORS AS IGNORANT AND UN-INFORMED then I'd be the one getting censored and warned about the UA.



By the way, I don't think vaccinators are ignorant or un-informed. I think there are plenty of ignorant people in the world, regardless of whether or not they vaccinate their children.


??? what the ua

[Ana Gram]

Why is it ok for comments like this to be said, when if the same comment was said about people choosing to feed with artificial baby milk would be frowned on.


I think you need to go over to another thread currently running, people who formula feed get called selfish ALL the time and don't see anything wrong with it.

[SugarBlossom]

Unbeleivable, I am astounded that non vaxxers are still being called selfish.

If i'm selfish , you are ignorant close minded people.

We have the right to make an informed choice about OUR children and it is certainly no business of yours!

Why on earth are you vaxxers so worried if your children are vaccinated.

I wasen't going to partake in this thread anymore but being called selfish has really got my blood boiling!

How Dare You!:mad:

My son roger : of course you woulden't see as a hard question cos you vaxxed:laughing: duh

[MamaSage]

Chelle, I know what thread you mean. I do not agree with people being attacked for FF by choice, even though I personally do not agree with it. I would never attack something that another person chooses to do, as it is not my place. Ditto I do not like being called selfish for my educated decision not to vax.

[the_queen]

??? what the ua

The User Agreement.

[mysonroger]

Why is it ok for comments like this to be said, when if the same comment was said about people choosing to feed with artificial baby milk would be frowned on.
I think people who follow the crowd and do not research things themselves are stupid. I guess I'll be busted for saying that though.

are you suggesting i haven't done any research.

[the_queen]

She said PEOPLE... she didn't mention anyone by name, she was being general. Why are you so defensive??

[Ana Gram]

I think what the problem is that non-vaxxers continually tell everyone that they are informed and have done lots of research ect. reguardless of if you mean to or not, you could be seen to be saying that vaxxer are not informed and qute happily jab our kids with needles because it's the done thing. Everytime the arguement is countered with "I didn't vax because I made an informed choice" you are pretty much saying that those of us who did vax didn't make an informed choice. You see what I am saying?

I am sure there are peopel who only vaccinated because it was the done thing but there are plenty of us who did research it and did vaccinate. And I am sure there are non vaxxers who "researched" by reading one thing from a credible source such as Today Tonight and that made them not vax.

So what I am saying is that part of the reason it gets so heated and everyone gets so annoyed is from what we aren't saying when we are saying what we are saying. ;)

[MamaSage]

If you have, you should understand the reasons that people choose not to vax. Not agree with, but at least be aware that people don't not vax for fun, like I understand that people DO vax and why, although I wouldn't.

[mysonroger]

Unbeleivable, I am astounded that non vaxxers are still being called selfish.

If i'm selfish , you are ignorant close minded people.

We have the right to make an informed choice about OUR children and it is certainly no business of yours!

Why on earth are you vaxxers so worried if your children are vaccinated.

I wasen't going to partake in this thread anymore but being called selfish has really got my blood boiling!

How Dare You!:mad:

My son roger : of course you woulden't see as a hard question cos you vaxxed:laughing: duh

people get called all sorts of things all of the time. you just have to put it into perspective and see where it fits in your life.
i still don't get why its meant to be a hard question for non-vaxers. i have to go back and read more. i skipped to here to see what was being thrown my way. i will happily eat any of my words. i'm good like that. give me a moment.

[Chickadee]

This thread is way off topic and degenerating into personal attacks on other's and their opinions. I think in 8 pages of posts only 1 or 2 people have addressed the original question. There has already been one Moderator warning, by Draught. So this thread is now closed.