View Full Version : Why would one elect to a c-section ?
hayleysmummy
16-05-2008, 16:29
I just dont understand unless its medically nessecary why someone would want to have a c-section :confused: Is it because they dont want to ruin their vagina, are scared of the pain, dont want to push ?
I dont want this to turn into any sort of argument I'm just genuinely asking why?
onemummmy
16-05-2008, 16:37
*sigh* people choose for many reasons, & its not up to you or anyone else to judge those reasons.(im not saying you are) Why does it matter?
Here is a link to a thread where the exact same question was asked
http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=128371
Chunkydunks
16-05-2008, 16:37
My SIL chose to with her 2nd daughter because she had complications with her 1st that she was told would more than likely reoccur. Well thats what she tells us. The complications wouldn't have occured is she hadn't insisted on being induced before her due date.
forbetoel
16-05-2008, 16:50
For lots of reasons, sometimes for reasons that I or you may not consider valid. Sometimes it is psychological, which is a valid medical reason.
Mamalicious
16-05-2008, 16:51
There are probably heaps and heaps of reasons.
Previous birth trauma
Issues in the past that make them uncomfortable with a VB
'Cosmetic' reasons I guess you could call them, the whole looseness thing*
Health problems- placenta praevia, shoulder dystocia, gestational diabetes....
*How common is that? Because I honestly have never heard of anyone actually doing that. Just curious.
onemummmy
16-05-2008, 16:54
'Cosmetic' reasons I guess you could call them, the whole looseness thing*
*How common is that? Because I honestly have never heard of anyone actually doing that. Just curious.
I havent heard of the 'looseness' thing(as in someone actually havong a csection to prevent that), but for me the amount of damage that has been done to my vagina means I no longer have any sexual feeling or function so yep that is a factor in how I would have another baby if it ever happened.
SassyMummy
16-05-2008, 16:57
After the thread I started that onemummy linked... I still am not sure I understand.
My caesarean was straight-forward, but it was still horrible... I cannot see why anyone would choose that for themselves... BUT...I guess they probably think I'm nuts for wanting a HBAC too...lol.
I chose mine because the first birth had complications ..which several OBs deemed could easily happen again .. i didn't want an emergency c-section .. I didn't want to chance the fact that I my second child .. might get distressed and end up in a humidicrib like his brother ..
my second c-section .. was honestly .. a brilliant experience .. BEST decision I ever made .. so overwhelmingly stress free .. fantastic staff .. fantastic hospital .. I felt safe and secure at all times - and my recovery was ultra fast :D
I wouldn't opt for a c-section the first time .. but the second time .. was a positive experience for me
Mummaholic
16-05-2008, 17:11
I am having a c-section in about 10 weeks due to medical issues with my first birth.
It's called elective as it is planned, but my dr recommended it although did not push me.
Mamalicious
16-05-2008, 17:12
I felt safe and secure at all times - and my recovery was ultra fast :D
I wouldn't opt for a c-section the first time .. but the second time .. was a positive experience for me
That's really cool. :goodvibes:
hayleysmummy
16-05-2008, 17:56
Thanks for the link Onemummy and to others for sharing their reasons/thoughts
Veve thats great that your c-sections were positive experiences its not very often you hear that :yelclap:
I totally understand why after a traumatic first birth one would opt for a c-section again
squiglet
17-05-2008, 10:47
I don't think people just 'choose' to have a cs do they?
I had a cs with DD and I certanly think it's not the easy way out. It's a long painfull recovery wich sucks:cool:
I will not 'choose' to have 2nd cs either.
chickaboo
17-05-2008, 12:39
It wasn't my initial preference when I was pregnant, but I had a C-section because DD was breech. I was really disappointed that I would have a C-section. We attempted to have her turned, but that was unsuccessful. The whole experience was fine, and all the hospital staff were fantastic. My recovery went well, albeit you just take things pretty slow for a few weeks. I'm 37 now and if I go back for a second pregnancy, I would be considering an elective C-section....although I'm still in two minds.
Well, I'm considering having caesarean, not for medical reasons. I can explain from my point of view...
The thought of a vb scares the hell out of me. Whereas a cs doesn't. (Well not as much.) I've always been terrified of childbirth, and it is the single biggest factor why I haven't tried to fall pregnant earlier. (DH and I have been together for 10 years now, so we've had plenty of time.) Pregnancy and birth feels so very dangerous to me. My mum almost died having me, as did I - in the end she had to have an emergency caesar. My aunt laboured for hours only to be told that her pelvis was too small - all three of her babies were born by caesarean. My biggest fear is not the birth itself, but things going wrong - distressed baby, tears, episiotomy etc. I also feel quite certain that I won't cope well if the birth damages me - I'm hopeless (teary, angry) whenever anything goes wrong with my privates (UTIs, thrush, discomfit) so I'm quite certain that a tear or cut or (god forbid) incontinence would be very traumatic for me.
So that's why I am considering it as an option. That said, I have just been to antenatal classes and they were fabulous in terms of explaining the birth process etc. so I'm not quite as scared any more. Part of me thinks I should try for a vb and see how it goes. But then I think, if it does go pear-shaped, I really don't want it to affect my time with my baby.
Part of me thinks I should try for a vb and see how it goes. But then I think, if it does go pear-shaped, I really don't want it to affect my time with my baby.
Have you researched the risks of things going wrong with c-section?
Fuchsia!
17-05-2008, 13:52
Lots of reason really. I could go on for ever.
IMO people who say they had one "just cause they wanted to" have much deeper underlying reasons. Not just cause they want to. Sometimes people just don't want to share the reason why and they say that "just cause they wanted too"
I had and elective C/S because of previous birth trauma and the benifiets of a CS outweighed the benifiets of a VB.
Here are some reasons as to why people may go for a C/S
* because they have a fear or phobia of childbirth, which is more common then you may think
* previous sexual abuse
* previous birth trauma
*Fear of damaging their vagina
* Previous C/S
* people who think that a C/S would be much easier and less painful.
there are lots of reason :)
Have you researched the risks of things going wrong with c-section?
Yeah, I have. Which is why I haven't made a final decision. Birth - whether vb or cs - is so uncertain. There are no guarantees. It's hard to know what is the 'right' decision. I know lots of people say the right decision is what is right for you. But the fact that I actually have a choice is quite stressful in itself. I mean if it does go pear-shaped, I have no one to blame but myself. Decision-making is not my strong point!
hayleysmummy
17-05-2008, 14:24
Thanks for sharing ladies and Jaxcoop you made some good points but what I'm talking about is people that just choose too because of not wanting to ruin 'down there' breech, previous c/s, they are totally understanable
Kas3- It is up to you :yes: but please try not to dwell on previous family members labours and births no 2 are the same.I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide
When I was pregnant with DD I was just over 40kgs and had a really tiny waist you would not believe the amount of women that told me I should elect to have a ceasearian (sp) because I was so tiny and my hips wouldnt handle pushing out a baby :rolleyes:. I proved them all wrong and had a wonderful just under 5hr labour, VB with no stitches, tears whatsoever.
Fuchsia!
17-05-2008, 14:31
but thats what i mean J, people may say that "they don't don't want to wreck things down there" to cover up other underlying reasons that they may not want to discuss.
And also i think people are not educated about the alarming risks of a C/S. It seems that C/S are becoming much more popular these days and i guess a fashion trend so people don't question the risks involved.
OB's don't talk about the risks either, women just assume that the OB will tell them everything and they have too much trust in them! Its also easier and a much better pay packet to peform a C/S for an OB so they don't really have a problem with it
Just seems that a C/S is the easiest way but it sooooo isn't!!! lol!
Pina Colada
17-05-2008, 14:32
I chose mine because the first birth had complications ..which several OBs deemed could easily happen again .. i didn't want an emergency c-section .. I didn't want to chance the fact that I my second child .. might get distressed and end up in a humidicrib like his brother ..
my second c-section .. was honestly .. a brilliant experience .. BEST decision I ever made .. so overwhelmingly stress free .. fantastic staff .. fantastic hospital .. I felt safe and secure at all times - and my recovery was ultra fast :D
I wouldn't opt for a c-section the first time .. but the second time .. was a positive experience for me
This is me too (except the humidicrib part). But compared to an emergency c-section, the elective was brilliant, and the recovery so much quicker. They took the sheet down, and I saw him coming out, and was the first person in the world to see he was a boy, which I thought was pretty great.
Like veve said, I never considered a c/s for my first, but after the trauma of my first (not the c/section part) I had my second birth was a much more positive
onemummmy
17-05-2008, 14:45
when you catually have a 'ruined down there' you may understand. Im not sure how I feel about women having a csection as their first just for that reason, I have had the vaginal birth that did the damage so I know I would rather avoid it again.
OB's don't talk about the risks either, women just assume that the OB will tell them everything and they have too much trust in them! some of them are quite good at explaining, but of course I think if you are going to have a csection no matter the reason you should do plenty of research on your own, just like you would with a VB(wel I did lol)
Ana Gram
17-05-2008, 14:53
when you catually have a 'ruined down there' you may understand. Im not sure how I feel about women having a csection as their first just for that reason, I have had the vaginal birth that did the damage so I know I would rather avoid it again.
Me too. Things are still not completely recovered just over 4 years later. I can no longer have sex and I am never having another child.
hayleysmummy
17-05-2008, 14:58
Can I just ask how the vagina gets ruined from a VB?
when you catually have a 'ruined down there' you may understand. Im not sure how I feel about women having a csection as their first just for that reason, I have had the vaginal birth that did the damage so I know I would rather avoid it again.
some of them are quite good at explaining, but of course I think if you are going to have a csection no matter the reason you should do plenty of research on your own, just like you would with a VB(wel I did lol)
Me too. Things are still not completely recovered just over 4 years later. I can no longer have sex and I am never having another child.
:hugs::hugs: I don't like talking about it, but I can totally relate even though I will go through it again.
Can I just ask how the vagina gets ruined from a VB?
Prolapse of any sort, serious tearing on outter, inner even cervix just to name a couple...
onemummmy
17-05-2008, 15:12
Can I just ask how the vagina gets ruined from a VB?
sure
this is how mine is ruined.. I had an episiotomy to use a vacuum to get a large shoulder dystocia baby out. As I was unable to push they pulled bubs head out in one go then did what is known as a McRoberts manouvre to get the body out(hold your legs up at your head, not a normal human movement unless u do a heck load of yoga) this method of delivery left me with the episiotomy, which got infected & as a result I have a huge amount of scar tissue from, internal tearing, a prolapsed internal vaginal wall(doesnt come out of my vagina but 'hangs' down inside) a collapsed urethra(thanks to the catheter needed for the vacuum), severe damage to my clitoris, as well as damage to my bottom which I dont want to go into. I have NO feeling in my vagina at all, except extreme pain when I try to have sex or use a tampon.my clitoris may as well be gone, it has no feeling at all.
onemummmy
17-05-2008, 15:22
:hugs::hugs: I don't like talking about it, but I can totally relate even though I will go through it again.
:hugs::hugs: u are very brave! sometimes I think, well how much worse could it get, but as I was so kindly reminded by my OB/GYN, 'you dont want to end up with a colostomy bag' :eek: Im far too scared of that!
yep. that's what scares the hell out of me. everyone always talks about how it's best to vb, but when it can lead to that kind of damage, it's very frightening. thanx for sharing onemummmy - i hope things improve for you :hugs:
onemummmy
17-05-2008, 15:26
thanks for the hug kas3:hugs: I admit its not nice to talk about, or hear, but in reality stuff like this does happen. Its not about me 'being loose' or thinking I am, its quite severe damage. I just wanted hayleysmummy, & others who may not know, to understand that its more than a vanity thing.
TeamAwesome
17-05-2008, 15:32
I had a pretty traumatic recovery after my first (3rd degree tear) and now have a mild prolapse after my third bub (who came out with her hand touching her shoulder) so can certainly see why women would choose to go down the elective c/s for "cosmetic reasons" as I may myself for my next baby should things down there not have improved or gotten seriously worse.
Hollywood
17-05-2008, 15:35
sure
this is how mine is ruined.. I had an episiotomy to use a vacuum to get a large shoulder dystocia baby out. As I was unable to push they pulled bubs head out in one go then did what is known as a McRoberts manouvre to get the body out(hold your legs up at your head, not a normal human movement unless u do a heck load of yoga) this method of delivery left me with the episiotomy, which got infected & as a result I have a huge amount of scar tissue from, internal tearing, a prolapsed internal vaginal wall(doesnt come out of my vagina but 'hangs' down inside) a collapsed urethra(thanks to the catheter needed for the vacuum), severe damage to my clitoris, as well as damage to my bottom which I dont want to go into. I have NO feeling in my vagina at all, except extreme pain when I try to have sex or use a tampon.my clitoris may as well be gone, it has no feeling at all.
OMG how awful! :( Sorry to hear you had such a traumatic time.
They had to get DS out with a vacuum, so I had to get an episiotomy because they had to do it in a hurry. He was turned the wrong way and wouldn't budge despite 2.5 hours of pushing. But I don't have prolapse or anything (that I'm aware of!), so I guess I should be thankful for that.
Despite all that I still want to have a VB next time I have a baby. I haven't been totally scared off the experience and for me the risks of a c-section out-weigh the pros, so I'll give the VB another go.
I can fully appreciate why some would choose to have a c-section though, as I've heard plenty of scary stories for it to be justifiable.
hayleysmummy
17-05-2008, 15:52
sure
this is how mine is ruined.. I had an episiotomy to use a vacuum to get a large shoulder dystocia baby out. As I was unable to push they pulled bubs head out in one go then did what is known as a McRoberts manouvre to get the body out(hold your legs up at your head, not a normal human movement unless u do a heck load of yoga) this method of delivery left me with the episiotomy, which got infected & as a result I have a huge amount of scar tissue from, internal tearing, a prolapsed internal vaginal wall(doesnt come out of my vagina but 'hangs' down inside) a collapsed urethra(thanks to the catheter needed for the vacuum), severe damage to my clitoris, as well as damage to my bottom which I dont want to go into. I have NO feeling in my vagina at all, except extreme pain when I try to have sex or use a tampon.my clitoris may as well be gone, it has no feeling at all.
:eek: I never even knew half of those things you mentioned could happen :hugs: I cant believe how much you have been through it certainly opens my eyes as to why someone would consider c-section thanks for sharing and I'm certainly understanding much more now
ETA- The only thing I knew that could happen from a vb was incontinense
onemummmy
17-05-2008, 15:56
:eek: I never even knew half of those things you mentioned could happen :hugs: I cant believe how much you have been through it certainly opens my eyes as to why someone would consider c-section thanks for sharing and I'm certainly understanding much more now
ETA- The only thing I knew that could happen from a vb was incontinense
glad I could help you to understand:) you can see though why people may say 'oh cos I wanted to' or whatever, rather than go into detail like I did.
SassyMummy
17-05-2008, 15:58
I suppose it must be hard for someone who has a good VB experience to understand... or someone like me, who has a negative caesarean experience.
They probably don't understand why I'm so dead-against having another - how I'd seriously think about never having any more children if i could only have them via caesarean... how I'd rather birth alone in a field of cows than go into hospital and risk having another caesarean.
I guess everyone is kinda tarnished by stories they hear, or things they've been through. :)
hayleysmummy
17-05-2008, 16:03
glad I could help you to understand:) you can see though why people may say 'oh cos I wanted to' or whatever, rather than go into detail like I did.
Yep totally :yes:
And I also agree with you Sassymummy I had a positive VB so it was hard for me to understand whjy someone would choose a c-section this thread has made me realise why
I'm just glad its stayed on topic and not turned into a csect v VB thread :thumbsup:
onemummmy
17-05-2008, 16:07
I suppose it must be hard for someone who has a good VB experience to understand... or someone like me, who has a negative caesarean experience.
They probably don't understand why I'm so dead-against having another - how I'd seriously think about never having any more children if i could only have them via caesarean... how I'd rather birth alone in a field of cows than go into hospital and risk having another caesarean.
I guess everyone is kinda tarnished by stories they hear, or things they've been through. :)
I can understand that:yes: its kinda the opposite of me, because of ur experience u never want another csection, because of my experience i never want another VB, I can appreciate that.
Ana Gram
17-05-2008, 16:08
They probably don't understand why I'm so dead-against having another - how I'd seriously think about never having any more children if i could only have them via caesarean...
But Sassy, we do understand because that is exactly how we feel. I will never have another child because I don't really have to option of demanding to have a c-section in the public system, nor can I have another birth and demand not to have a midwife touch me.
StrawberryTheMilkshake
17-05-2008, 17:25
I will probably opt for one next time (with my obstertricians advice) because of vaginal and bladder trauma i suffered with first birth.
So i would opt for one because i do not want my incontinence to get any worse.
hailsntwang
17-05-2008, 17:51
It's not about being too posh to push for me, i will have another c-section (elected) because next time round, (unlike my first birthing experience) I would like to be the one in control.
I gave birth 4 weeks ago. I had wanted a natural birth so bad and so when things took a turn for the worst and my doctor advised me that I was going to have to have an emergancy C- Section, I was so dissappointed. I originally felt like a failure of a woman because i couldn't push my own baby out.(although I don't feel like that anymore.)
My baby was stuck in my pelvis, my blood pressure was unbelievably low, and after an extremely long labour he was getting distressed and I was in danger so it was performed.
My next birth, as I said previously, it will be me calling the shots. I will know what to expect and nothing (should) take me by surprise. I choose the Doctor, I choose the hospital, I choose the date and i'm hoping the experience will be much more calm and collected. A whole different, more positive, relaxed atmosphere which I didn't have with my first.
(I could attempt a VBAC but the risks of my first birthing experience reoccuring - from my Doctor's point of view- is quite high), to me it's not worth it.
I recovered well from the c-section, was at home 2 days later and walking around, bending over and so on only 6 hours after the operation.
It's my choice and my decision is based on the health and welbeing of my baby and my control over my birthing experience.
reAllytee
17-05-2008, 18:05
I was going to opt for one with Squeak because of all the problems & issues i had with Boof.
Instead being just as scared of that as i was another VB i started to freak out. I had counselling & starting working through all my emotions as well as looking into all my options.
I did tonnes of research & no matter what i was always lead back to having a VB.
I did more research into making sure i didnt have the same issues as i did with Boof then when i hired my Doula it all started to become a reality of things being incredibly different this time around.
It paid off & i am soooo glad i wasnt another statistic being told i should have a c/s or that i needed to have one etc etc etc.
I can completely understand why many want to have one especially when having dealt with prior birth trauma.
I really dont have major issue with those who choose to have a c/s by choice. If they are truly informed making that decision so be it. The problem is many arent & thats where i take issue.
Fuchsia!
17-05-2008, 19:12
when you catually have a 'ruined down there' you may understand. Im not sure how I feel about women having a csection as their first just for that reason, I have had the vaginal birth that did the damage so I know I would rather avoid it again.
some of them are quite good at explaining, but of course I think if you are going to have a csection no matter the reason you should do plenty of research on your own, just like you would with a VB(wel I did lol)
yep i can totally relate to that. Some may have already read my story. I had a straight forward labour and birth, i had a supposed 2nd degree tear.
When the doctor stitched me up i could feel some it. The pain was awful i could feel the needle go through and stitch. Afterwards i knew something was not right. I went and got it checked out and it was not stitched properly, and i had hardly any perineum left. I was told to get it fixed, the doctor who fixed it dodged that up too, so i was left with even less of a perineum, this leaving me with faecal incontinence (yes you heard right).
It has ruined my life, and it effects the kids in everyway. I suffer social anxiety, panic attacks, depression and even OCD from it. Im on the mend now, im seeing some really great doctors and a psychologist. If i knew what i know now i would have had a C/S 1st time round.
For future babies i will have to have a C/S or face the big possibilty of having to have a colostomy bag if i were to have another VB
Im angry at myself because i didnt look into VB's enough. IMO i could have prevented the tear, but im not blaming me for what happened. I stuffed around by the doctors that were suppose to fix me but now im left with an even greater fear of doctors.
Anyway thats my story, my long story is in the birth trauma section.
Thanks for reading :)
my first 2 births were vaginal, but my next baby is to be a c/s.
First birth - no tearing - no real long term damage.
Second birth - very quick labour - 3rd degree tearing, although now from ultrasounds it appears to have been 4th degree.
I have phyical problems still from the last birth (the actual delivery wasn't all that traumatic, it's just what has happend in the time since then).
After seeing 2 surgeons they have both said that I need to have a c/s in order to stop further damage, as it is quite possible my next birth could be even quicker and if I was to be damaged again it could have very serious consequences.
Although it is terms an "elective" c/s, for me I don't personally feel this is the case. If I had not been damaged in the last birth I would definately have another vaginal birth - I'm not scared of the labour and birth (apart from what is normal LOL), but the risk to my future is too high. I feel by the term "elective" that it is a choice I am making, however, it is only from medical advice of specialists that I am going to go ahead and have this down.
For me, having a vaginal birth would have been alot easier as far as looking after my other 2 kids after the birth, whereas now I will need a lot more help.
I feel disappointed that things have turned out this way....
yep i can totally relate to that. Some may have already read my story. I had a straight forward labour and birth, i had a supposed 2nd degree tear.
When the doctor stitched me up i could feel some it. The pain was awful i could feel the needle go through and stitch. Afterwards i knew something was not right. I went and got it checked out and it was not stitched properly, and i had hardly any perineum left. I was told to get it fixed, the doctor who fixed it dodged that up too, so i was left with even less of a perineum, this leaving me with faecal incontinence (yes you heard right).
It has ruined my life, and it effects the kids in everyway. I suffer social anxiety, panic attacks, depression and even OCD from it. Im on the mend now, im seeing some really great doctors and a psychologist. If i knew what i know now i would have had a C/S 1st time round.
For future babies i will have to have a C/S or face the big possibilty of having to have a colostomy bag if i were to have another VB
Im angry at myself because i didnt look into VB's enough. IMO i could have prevented the tear, but im not blaming me for what happened. I stuffed around by the doctors that were suppose to fix me but now im left with an even greater fear of doctors.
Anyway thats my story, my long story is in the birth trauma section.
Thanks for reading :)
:hugs: Just had to say that is terrible! I have never heard of that before :hugs:
Stories like these make me glad I was forced (placenta previa) into an elective c/s! :eek:
I think people forget that no matter which way a child is born, getting something that big out of your body is going to leave a mark! :dizzy:
Fuchsia!
17-05-2008, 20:27
But you have to remember that something that happened to me is quite rare. C/S are can still very dangerous and i have heard of many more C/S complications and stuff ups then i have with vaginal damage.
I just love to preach the word education. Educate yourselves with everything :)
yep. that's what scares the hell out of me. everyone always talks about how it's best to vb, but when it can lead to that kind of damage, it's very frightening. thanx for sharing onemummmy - i hope things improve for you :hugs:
Yes but for me even though my birth damaged me.. It wasn't until after the birth that I felt the problems I loved labouring and knowing that I birthed my baby properly which why I will be having a VB next time but I will be trying to avoid the same problems again by having a homebirth. I don't think of my sons birth as a bad thing I loved it, it was a great birth! It just happened to damage me alot physically but to me c-section is far too risky and I would even go through double the problems I have now from birth then have one. It scares the hell out of me..
Just remember... There are sooooooooooooooooooooooooo many succesful VB's if it was so dangerous you would have to have an OB at every birth.:)
Stories like these make me glad I was forced (placenta previa) into an elective c/s! :eek:
I think people forget that no matter which way a child is born, getting something that big out of your body is going to leave a mark! :dizzy:
Not neccesarily and if you research and watch some birthing videos you will see that it is very rare. Most women come out of birth with no damage, some say things are even tighter then before.:)
Lucybelle
17-05-2008, 20:49
I just love to preach the word education. Educate yourselves with everything :)
Word.
jaxcoop, you really are a warrior. I am so sorry things worked out the way they did, but your insightful posts are inspiring to read.
Absolutley, educate yourself. Think about employing a Doula if you can, surround yourself with wise women - you CAN be in control.
Doulas are brilliant.
Fuchsia!
17-05-2008, 20:53
they are brilliant, thats why im about to start training to be one :)
onemummmy
17-05-2008, 20:54
some say things are even tighter then before.:)
I find that incredibly hard to believe. Stretching something cannot make it tighter. They may not have any noticed stretching or were lucky they went 'back to normal' but tighter?:no: dont believe it.(unless they were stitched tighter)
I find that incredibly hard to believe. Stretching something cannot make it tighter. They may not have any noticed stretching or were lucky they went 'back to normal' but tighter?:no: dont believe it.(unless they were stitched tighter)
It's true, I have met many women who have felt like this...
onemummmy
17-05-2008, 20:59
sorry I just cannot believe it. I will definately be asking my OB/GYN next time I see him cos I dont even know if its physically possible:confused: if its true then I feel rorted:laughing:
Lucybelle
17-05-2008, 21:00
Oh no way! I was "back at it" 2 weeks after my first was born......and it was waaaaay better!
ETA - I didn't have any stitches...
onemummmy
17-05-2008, 21:01
it may feel better, but I very much doubt its actually tighter. Know what I mean?
Mamalicious
17-05-2008, 21:03
I find that incredibly hard to believe. Stretching something cannot make it tighter. They may not have any noticed stretching or were lucky they went 'back to normal' but tighter?:no: dont believe it.(unless they were stitched tighter)
Well my DH says I feel just as tight as before I had my son, and I agree with him, sex feels the same, better in fact.
If you do enough kegels who knows what could happen. :p
Well, I'm considering having caesarean, not for medical reasons. I can explain from my point of view...
The thought of a vb scares the hell out of me. Whereas a cs doesn't. (Well not as much.) I've always been terrified of childbirth, and it is the single biggest factor why I haven't tried to fall pregnant earlier. (DH and I have been together for 10 years now, so we've had plenty of time.) Pregnancy and birth feels so very dangerous to me. My mum almost died having me, as did I - in the end she had to have an emergency caesar. My aunt laboured for hours only to be told that her pelvis was too small - all three of her babies were born by caesarean. My biggest fear is not the birth itself, but things going wrong - distressed baby, tears, episiotomy etc. I also feel quite certain that I won't cope well if the birth damages me - I'm hopeless (teary, angry) whenever anything goes wrong with my privates (UTIs, thrush, discomfit) so I'm quite certain that a tear or cut or (god forbid) incontinence would be very traumatic for me.
So that's why I am considering it as an option. That said, I have just been to antenatal classes and they were fabulous in terms of explaining the birth process etc. so I'm not quite as scared any more. Part of me thinks I should try for a vb and see how it goes. But then I think, if it does go pear-shaped, I really don't want it to affect my time with my baby.
7 years ago I could have written that word for word. Except the part about the Aunt..my mum only had brothers.
But my mother has extremely negative birth experiences with my sister and I and I was petrified of Labour when i was pregnant.
I would break into a cold sweat and start to shake everytime I thought about it. I was terrifed of the pain, I was terrified I was never going to be the same again, I was terrified for a few reasons I wont go into.
Then I went into labour and didn't even know it. By the time I got to the hospital I was 8 cm's dialated and not in any pain at all, bad backache but no real pain.
That gave me a confidence boost. I kept thinking, wow- its supposed to hurt more than this- i can do this.
And do it i did- 4 hrs later I pushed out my 9pd 4 posterior baby. The first words out of my mouth were 'whats the big deal- that didn't even really hurt'.
I mean it hurt but it was no where near the pain that I was expecting thanks to the media and all those well meaning oldies in the supermarket.
I've since done it 3 more times, all a whole lot quicker than the first. My 4th baby was born in 24 minutes and in all 4 births I have never had a drug and never had a stitch.
Im now studying to become a Doula in the hope that I can help more women like me.
What I am trying to say is your fears can be overcome, with the right help and support, you can conquer your fears:hugs:
onemummmy
17-05-2008, 21:07
Well my DH says I feel just as tight as before I had my son, and I agree with him, sex feels the same, better in fact.
If you do enough kegels who knows what could happen. :p
operative word being just not tighter. I believe you can be just as tight(gosh I feel a bit gross saying that so much:o) but not tighter. A rubber band can snap back to its original shape, but never smaller(or tighter) & yes, every time you stretch it it will lose some of its elasticity.
Mamalicious
17-05-2008, 21:11
operative word being just not tighter. I believe you can be just as tight(gosh I feel a bit gross saying that so much:o) but not tighter. A rubber band can snap back to its original shape, but never smaller(or tighter) & yes, every time you stretch it it will lose some of its elasticity.
I think if you do your Kegels then you can keep that elasticity, I have, and the more I do the better it gets.
A year on, I'm still doing them, and have no intention of stopping. :D
onemummmy
17-05-2008, 21:13
kegels wont do anything for me, read my post a few pages back. My only option would be surgery.
Mamalicious
17-05-2008, 21:18
kegels wont do anything for me, read my post a few pages back. My only option would be surgery.
Obviously, not if you have vaginal damage. I don't.
KatiesMum
17-05-2008, 21:36
Firstly - a huge congrats to all who have posted!!! It is so nice to see one of these threads not degenerate into a slanging match :p
Secondly - Onemummy and Jaxcoop - huge :hugs:. You are both amazing women.
Thridly - to the op and others - keep in mind that you are mainly hearing stories about vb's which went wrong ...... so while it answers your question about what can go wrong, it is easy to get the wrong idea about the number of women who have these kinds of issues with vb's. Yes it can happen, and when it does happen it can be pretty bad, which is why these women will choose (or haven chosen) a c/s next time round, but for the most part there are less complications both in number and degree of seriousness in vb's than in c/s's.
and Lastly - to me .... I had a c/s as bubs was breech. It would not have been my choice, though I was not really into birth as an experience or anything - just wanted bubby delivered safely. However - my c/s went absolutely wonderfully, recovery was really easy and everything was perfect. My c/s was a really really posative experience for me, and I fully understand why anyone would choose that.
I agree 100% with Jaxcoop - education is the key. I am a great believer in informed choice. If you have done the research, you should be able to choose whatever birth you wish....... without judgement from others.
Your body, your baby, your choice.
Terrible2+1cutie
17-05-2008, 22:37
I had a emergency cesarean with my first son after a 24 hour labour and being told his head was too big, second time round i elected cause didnt want to go through the same thing as the first time and same with this current pregnancy. Each to there own but i know i was glad when i had a elective cesarean the second time round because bubs was heaps bigger than the first time and i would of experienced similar labour if i tried naturally again.
I only have c/s's for medical reasons, but I would say that most women who have a c/s for no reason at all would most likely be private patients, who can choose, a public hospital would not deliver a baby by c/s unless it was an emergency, and after having 9 kids myself the thought of going through labour again absolutely terrifies me, and a c/s for me is always going to be the easy way out.( at the moment it is the only way out :laughing:)
neekynoo
17-05-2008, 23:19
I had to have an emergency c/section(induction wasn't a safe option) with DD which happened so quickly I didn't really get time to process what was going on. I've also been told that next time round bub will be monitored closely towards the end and I may need to again have an emergency c/section. I will try for VBAC but if I need the ceasar I will have it no problems. :yes:
I had a c/s so nothing 'happened' to my bits :p and sex has been 10x better since my son was born than it ever was before I fell pregnant.
Going technical here:
This is because it is not the actual birth process that changes anything down there, it's a combination of hormonal changes post pregnancy and psychological changes, a new confidence in your own body (since you managed to create a baby, however it was born) that make sexual enjoyment easier to achieve.
The muscles themselves may be more toned after birth than before IF you didn't do kegles before but do after, otherwise it is physically impossible unless you were stitched tighter.
Did that help?
Blueberry Crumble
18-05-2008, 00:38
Gosh, some of these stories are shocking and I really feel for you ladies! :(
I was very lucky and had a very positive vb- one and a half hours labour and about 4 pushes and he was out. No episiotomy, no vaccuum, just came out from my own pushing. I only had a few grazes and needed a couple of stitches, but my "down there " looks exactly the same as it did before I had DS.
I thought I would put a positive story in here just incase this thread scares first time mummys into having c-sections!!
It is hard, because as a first timer, you really dont know what kind of vb you will have- you cant predict the trauma that could happen always.
But for those of us lucky enough, it can be a truly magnificent experience
Blueberry Crumble
18-05-2008, 00:47
Vaginismus
:confused::confused:
Is that like Christmas for vaginas?
reAllytee
18-05-2008, 00:48
But you have to remember that something that happened to me is quite rare. C/S are can still very dangerous and i have heard of many more C/S complications and stuff ups then i have with vaginal damage.
I just love to preach the word education. Educate yourselves with everything :
:iagree:
Which is what i was aiming to say in a round about sorta way which lead to nothing :laughing:
It really angers me that this sort of thing is often kept hidden yes but at the same time we are often telling so many mums " quick c/s cause it will be so much better !!! " .... Ummmm nooooo :no:
kegels wont do anything for me, read my post a few pages back. My only option would be surgery.
We are a different kettle of fish. Damage has been done & that is irrepairable by 'natural' methods but for the majority of women they bounce back really well & often then some. But in saying that funnily enough birthing again after major damage can actually help 'right' things which is what i found with my scarring.
Firstly - a huge congrats to all who have posted!!! It is so nice to see one of these threads not degenerate into a slanging match :p
Secondly - Onemummy and Jaxcoop - huge :hugs:. You are both amazing women.
Thridly - to the op and others - keep in mind that you are mainly hearing stories about vb's which went wrong ...... so while it answers your question about what can go wrong, it is easy to get the wrong idea about the number of women who have these kinds of issues with vb's. Yes it can happen, and when it does happen it can be pretty bad, which is why these women will choose (or haven chosen) a c/s next time round, but for the most part there are less complications both in number and degree of seriousness in vb's than in c/s's.
and Lastly - to me .... I had a c/s as bubs was breech. It would not have been my choice, though I was not really into birth as an experience or anything - just wanted bubby delivered safely. However - my c/s went absolutely wonderfully, recovery was really easy and everything was perfect. My c/s was a really really posative experience for me, and I fully understand why anyone would choose that.
I agree 100% with Jaxcoop - education is the key. I am a great believer in informed choice. If you have done the research, you should be able to choose whatever birth you wish....... without judgement from others.
Your body, your baby, your choice.
:iagree:
I had a third degree plus internal tearing then a prolapse thrown in first time round & even with doing the 'right' thing with Squeak still managed a second degree but i believe that was because he was out within 3mins & because i really do believe im a tearer & thats what my body does.
There is another member on here who is the same in some ways 'our little treasures' is her username & she has torn badly with all 3 of her babies but no matter what she still goes done the VB path.
This time round it wasnt such a shock to be told i required more stitches but this time didnt involve internal problems so my recovery time was much better & as i said there wasnt shock or the likes so i just dealt with it if that makes sense.
I was also told that a lot of my scarring etc would be better once Squeak was born & i do find this to be very true. I still have my prolapse nothing will change that until i have surgery but all in all i am so damn glad i looked into it as i said earlier otherwise i would have blindly believed all the doctors as to me needing a c/s !
spiritedbirth
18-05-2008, 01:53
I don't think people just 'choose' to have a cs do they?
I had a cs with DD and I certanly think it's not the easy way out. It's a long painfull recovery wich sucks:cool:
I will not 'choose' to have 2nd cs either.
Yes some people choose to have a c/s. In my experience most mums either choose an elective c-scetion besides medical conditions(some of which are still no valid reason for c/s) due to birth trauma. Birth Trauma normally starts when mums go down the path of a medical birth eg. induction, epidural, monitering continuously. Unfortunately this can be due to lack of research, knowledge, appropriate care, support and a whole lot of fear surrounding birth.
When we feel FEAR we feel TENSION when we feel TENSION we feel PAIN Its is abbreviated as F.T.P and also known as FAULIRE TO PROGRESS.
I believe hospitals and especially obstetrcians have a lot to answer to. They are not giving women correct information on how to have the best birth possible and this work does not start just as you walk into the labour suite. You must work at getting your baby into a good position (optimal fetal positioning) during pregnancy, keeping fit & healthy, learning about active birth (not laying on the damn bed on your back so your pelvis does not open up), read up on alternative pain relief measures (hypnobirthing, heat, water, reflexology, aronotherapy, homeopathics, rescue remedy, massage, accupressure) how to use bean bags, water for labour & birth, fit balls, birthing stools, birth positions etc.. read up on your hormones in labour and birth, LEARN ABOUT YOUR PELVIS!! This list goes on ladies.
Read up about the risks of medical pain relief and how it can interfere greatly with the normal process of birth. it can stop labour, delay it, make it hard to open your pelvis because your are on your back, induction can bring on contractions from the start which are way too intense and painful, it can make baby go into distress, lowers your blood pressure which in turn decreases oxygen flow to your baby which then puts baby into fetal distress.
Medication in birth has its place but rarely and is normally the cause of more complications to mum and baby further into the birth. It is a snowball effect or cascade of intervention.
I am sorry to say but if you go into hospital trusting everything your care giver (obstetrician or midwife) says without researching your own rights and conditions first then the cascade of intervention will start. You will be more prone to Birth Trauma or a medical birth (c/s or assisted delivery)
Doctors ahould be ashamed of themselves for not letting women know the truth about birth and how blissful and safe it can be, but I have also come to the conclusion that women have to also start taking responsibilty for their own birth.
Read, gain knowledge and ask questions!! Heaps of questions, then go get another opinion if you feel it may enhance your birth outcome.
I am sick of hearing about birth trauma in women..it is so sad. the medical system is letting women down in so many ways!!
Gain the support you need, talk to independant midwives, go to your local community midwifery centre , look at websites on birth that are created by homebirth midwives, doulas etc..
This is where you will learn the truth about birth and how to have the best birth possible in the current maternity system.
Also I was sad to hear about mums who have had trauma through their birth or c/s but what about the baby??
If anyone needs a resource list of books and articles on all the things I mentioned above I will be happy to post in here.
SO YES TO THE OP WOMEN DO CHOOSE ELECTIVE CEASERS BUT SOME OF THESE COULD OF BEEN AVOIDED IF THEY HAD THE RIGHT SUPPORT, KNOWLEDGE AND POWER TO FIGHT AGAINST THE SYSTEM. NORMAL MEDICAL INTERFERED BIRTH IS COMMMON IN AUSTRALIA AND BIRTH IS NO LONGER A RITE OF PASSAGE TO WOMEN BUT SOMETHING TO FEAR. I HOPE ONE DAY THIS CHANGES AND THE CORRECT INFORMATION ABOUT CHILDBIRTH IS GIVEN TO ALL WOMEN......
This post is not mean to offend or upset in anyway just enlighten and get women thinking..
:)
Can I just ask how the vagina gets ruined from a VB?
It shouldn't, it's usually doctor done. Unnecessary episiotimy, unnecessary tearing because of lack of support/doctor encouraging mother to push, etc...vacuums, pulling on the baby, etc...In a stress free environment the vagina would not be affected in that way.
:confused::confused:
Is that like Christmas for vaginas?
:laughing:
NonnyMouse
18-05-2008, 09:27
Onemummy: I am one of those women who felt they were tighter after a VB.This is because I had a lot of grazing internally, and when that grazing healed, the skin in that area was less elastic. While this doesn't mean it was 'technically' tighter when in a resting state, it was certainly tighter during intercourse because of the lack of elasticity.
cocobambino
18-05-2008, 09:39
Ok so heres my story...
I was diagnosed with polyhydrominsis at around 4 months of pregnancy and at what we thought was 38 weeks (its hard to tell with a poly baby) I was MASSIVE and so uncomfortable and my blood pressure was up so the doctor decided to induce me i was admitted to hospital the next day
1 week later and after every induction method they could use still no baby, so I had the choice go home and deal with being this big and uncomfortable i was unable to do anything for myself or my daughter or have a C-section DH said it was up to me so i CHOSE to have a c-section and when she was born she was infact 4 weeks early but after 2 weeks in hospital she was fine and I was fine and at the time is was the best choice
will i choose a c-section next time the answer is NO but for those who do i will never judge its an individual choice and in the end its not about the birth its about the baby so why are people SOOO focused on how it comes out i just dont get it everyone is entitled to bring their baby into the world they way that makes them feel safe
Lucybelle
18-05-2008, 10:05
Spirirted Birth- Failure to Progress = Failure to WAIT, and let the birthing mother do what she needs.....ggrrrrr
Yes some people choose to have a c/s. In my experience most mums either choose an elective c-scetion besides medical conditions(some of which are still no valid reason for c/s) due to birth trauma. Birth Trauma normally starts when mums go down the path of a medical birth eg. induction, epidural, monitering continuously. Unfortunately this can be due to lack of research, knowledge, appropriate care, support and a whole lot of fear surrounding birth.
When we feel FEAR we feel TENSION when we feel TENSION we feel PAIN Its is abbreviated as F.T.P and also known as FAULIRE TO PROGRESS.
I believe hospitals and especially obstetrcians have a lot to answer to. They are not giving women correct information on how to have the best birth possible and this work does not start just as you walk into the labour suite. You must work at getting your baby into a good position (optimal fetal positioning) during pregnancy, keeping fit & healthy, learning about active birth (not laying on the damn bed on your back so your pelvis does not open up), read up on alternative pain relief measures (hypnobirthing, heat, water, reflexology, aronotherapy, homeopathics, rescue remedy, massage, accupressure) how to use bean bags, water for labour & birth, fit balls, birthing stools, birth positions etc.. read up on your hormones in labour and birth, LEARN ABOUT YOUR PELVIS!! This list goes on ladies.
Read up about the risks of medical pain relief and how it can interfere greatly with the normal process of birth. it can stop labour, delay it, make it hard to open your pelvis because your are on your back, induction can bring on contractions from the start which are way too intense and painful, it can make baby go into distress, lowers your blood pressure which in turn decreases oxygen flow to your baby which then puts baby into fetal distress.
Medication in birth has its place but rarely and is normally the cause of more complications to mum and baby further into the birth. It is a snowball effect or cascade of intervention.
I am sorry to say but if you go into hospital trusting everything your care giver (obstetrician or midwife) says without researching your own rights and conditions first then the cascade of intervention will start. You will be more prone to Birth Trauma or a medical birth (c/s or assisted delivery)
Doctors ahould be ashamed of themselves for not letting women know the truth about birth and how blissful and safe it can be, but I have also come to the conclusion that women have to also start taking responsibilty for their own birth.
Read, gain knowledge and ask questions!! Heaps of questions, then go get another opinion if you feel it may enhance your birth outcome.
I am sick of hearing about birth trauma in women..it is so sad. the medical system is letting women down in so many ways!!
Gain the support you need, talk to independant midwives, go to your local community midwifery centre , look at websites on birth that are created by homebirth midwives, doulas etc..
This is where you will learn the truth about birth and how to have the best birth possible in the current maternity system.
Also I was sad to hear about mums who have had trauma through their birth or c/s but what about the baby??
If anyone needs a resource list of books and articles on all the things I mentioned above I will be happy to post in here.
SO YES TO THE OP WOMEN DO CHOOSE ELECTIVE CEASERS BUT SOME OF THESE COULD OF BEEN AVOIDED IF THEY HAD THE RIGHT SUPPORT, KNOWLEDGE AND POWER TO FIGHT AGAINST THE SYSTEM. NORMAL MEDICAL INTERFERED BIRTH IS COMMMON IN AUSTRALIA AND BIRTH IS NO LONGER A RITE OF PASSAGE TO WOMEN BUT SOMETHING TO FEAR. I HOPE ONE DAY THIS CHANGES AND THE CORRECT INFORMATION ABOUT CHILDBIRTH IS GIVEN TO ALL WOMEN......
This post is not mean to offend or upset in anyway just enlighten and get women thinking..
:)
Great post!
It shouldn't, it's usually doctor done. Unnecessary episiotimy, unnecessary tearing because of lack of support/doctor encouraging mother to push, etc...vacuums, pulling on the baby, etc...In a stress free environment the vagina would not be affected in that way.
Even though my damage I now had nothing to do with midwifes doctors because they were barely there because I wouldn't let them come near me and just did my own thing (I wanted a homebirth but let people get to me about what a stupid teenager I must be:rolleyes:) but I got damaged badly because I lost control of my own body and pushed too hard because I had researched everything but ways to prevent tearing :doh:.
onemummmy
18-05-2008, 18:50
We are a different kettle of fish. Damage has been done & that is irrepairable by 'natural' methods but for the majority of women they bounce back really well & often then some. But in saying that funnily enough birthing again after major damage can actually help 'right' things which is what i found with my scarring.
I was also told that a lot of my scarring etc would be better once Squeak was born & i do find this to be very true. I still have my prolapse nothing will change that until i have surgery but all in all i am so damn glad i looked into it as i said earlier otherwise i would have blindly believed all the doctors as to me needing a c/s !
Im glad it worked out for you:) I wont be taking that chance though.
onemummmy
18-05-2008, 18:55
Yes some people choose to have a c/s. In my experience most mums either choose an elective c-scetion besides medical conditions(some of which are still no valid reason for c/s) due to birth trauma. Birth Trauma normally starts when mums go down the path of a medical birth eg. induction, epidural, monitering continuously. Unfortunately this can be due to lack of research, knowledge, appropriate care, support and a whole lot of fear surrounding birth.
When we feel FEAR we feel TENSION when we feel TENSION we feel PAIN Its is abbreviated as F.T.P and also known as FAULIRE TO PROGRESS.
I believe hospitals and especially obstetrcians have a lot to answer to. They are not giving women correct information on how to have the best birth possible and this work does not start just as you walk into the labour suite. You must work at getting your baby into a good position (optimal fetal positioning) during pregnancy, keeping fit & healthy, learning about active birth (not laying on the damn bed on your back so your pelvis does not open up), read up on alternative pain relief measures (hypnobirthing, heat, water, reflexology, aronotherapy, homeopathics, rescue remedy, massage, accupressure) how to use bean bags, water for labour & birth, fit balls, birthing stools, birth positions etc.. read up on your hormones in labour and birth, LEARN ABOUT YOUR PELVIS!! This list goes on ladies.
Read up about the risks of medical pain relief and how it can interfere greatly with the normal process of birth. it can stop labour, delay it, make it hard to open your pelvis because your are on your back, induction can bring on contractions from the start which are way too intense and painful, it can make baby go into distress, lowers your blood pressure which in turn decreases oxygen flow to your baby which then puts baby into fetal distress.
Medication in birth has its place but rarely and is normally the cause of more complications to mum and baby further into the birth. It is a snowball effect or cascade of intervention.
I am sorry to say but if you go into hospital trusting everything your care giver (obstetrician or midwife) says without researching your own rights and conditions first then the cascade of intervention will start. You will be more prone to Birth Trauma or a medical birth (c/s or assisted delivery)
Doctors ahould be ashamed of themselves for not letting women know the truth about birth and how blissful and safe it can be, but I have also come to the conclusion that women have to also start taking responsibilty for their own birth.
Read, gain knowledge and ask questions!! Heaps of questions, then go get another opinion if you feel it may enhance your birth outcome.
I am sick of hearing about birth trauma in women..it is so sad. the medical system is letting women down in so many ways!!
Gain the support you need, talk to independant midwives, go to your local community midwifery centre , look at websites on birth that are created by homebirth midwives, doulas etc..
This is where you will learn the truth about birth and how to have the best birth possible in the current maternity system.
Also I was sad to hear about mums who have had trauma through their birth or c/s but what about the baby??
If anyone needs a resource list of books and articles on all the things I mentioned above I will be happy to post in here.
SO YES TO THE OP WOMEN DO CHOOSE ELECTIVE CEASERS BUT SOME OF THESE COULD OF BEEN AVOIDED IF THEY HAD THE RIGHT SUPPORT, KNOWLEDGE AND POWER TO FIGHT AGAINST THE SYSTEM. NORMAL MEDICAL INTERFERED BIRTH IS COMMMON IN AUSTRALIA AND BIRTH IS NO LONGER A RITE OF PASSAGE TO WOMEN BUT SOMETHING TO FEAR. I HOPE ONE DAY THIS CHANGES AND THE CORRECT INFORMATION ABOUT CHILDBIRTH IS GIVEN TO ALL WOMEN......
This post is not mean to offend or upset in anyway just enlighten and get women thinking..
:)
well it has offended me bigtime! I did all the research I could and things still went the wrong way, you sound exactly like my OB who told me my birth trauma was my fault for having high expectations about my birth.
I think unless you have gone through the trauma yourself - it is hard for others to understand - both my labours and births were okay and I felt really proud of myself to be able to do it.
I have been advised by 3 surgeons (not just one) that if I have a vaginal birth again, i could end up having faecal incontinence - yes - I already have it to a small extent and it has impacted my life very considerably - similar to the stuff that jaxcoop has said that she deals with.
If i end up being totally incontinant - what type of mother I am going to be - one that will never want to take her kids out in public, incase of accidents. As it is I always have to know where toilets are as I have about 2 minutes to get to a toilet when I need to do no. 2's. Believe me, this is not the way I ever wanted to be. To risk this to full incontinence is too much too ask.
I have had numerous invasive tests done to see what damage I have and my sphinster muscle is a c shape rather than a donut shape due to the tearing in my last birth. Which therefore doesn't hold poo in the way it's meant too!
ananas - you said that this shouldn't happen in a normal birth without interefence from doctors eg, episiotomy, no support, being told to push too soon etc.
Well this simply is not true - I had an extrememly quick natural labour and birth with my second child - I had no drugs, the doctor only just got there in time, the midwives were trying to tell me not too push, no vacuum or anything else you said. I do know of ladies who have quick births with no real problems, but this simply was not the case for me.
I think it's important not to say things as fact when this simpy is not true in all circumstances.
Believe me, I would love to have a natural birth again, but how many of you would risk total bowel incontinence in order to do that.
As it is I have to have surgery down the track to repair the damage that is already there.
I do find it insulting that some people form their opinions but have not experienced something like this. It has made me feel like other's on here think I'm doing the wrong thing...not until you are placed in this position perhaps would your opinion change - and I honestly hope none of you have to go through what I have.
I'm sorry you're feeling this way onemummmy :hugs: Only you can make the right choice for you and your baby. Don't feel pressured or guilty. It's easy for people to make suggestions, and sometimes this is good (gives you a different point of view), but ultimately it's your life, your body, your baby. Go with what feels right for YOU.
I'm sorry you're feeling this way onemummmy :hugs: Only you can make the right choice for you and your baby. Don't feel pressured or guilty. It's easy for people to make suggestions, and sometimes this is good (gives you a different point of view), but ultimately it's your life, your body, your baby. Go with what feels right for YOU.
:iagree::iagree: You know onemummy i support you 100%:hugs:
I am someone who choose my c-section my choice my way. Yes i researched both and from experiences in my past, c-section was the right choice for me.
No one pressured me into it, i had some issues with one certain midwife about it. I refused to tell her my reasons and she didn't like that (well to bad i didn't like her).
For the record i had told my consultant OB (yep i was public) and a couple of the other midwives who were so very nice to me, and didn't pressure me either way just gave me risks etc from both sides of the arguement. I am so sure if that women really wanted to know it would have been in my file.
I think it is easy for some people standing on the outside looking in to not understand some one who truly does want a non medically neccesary c-section.
Not to every stranger in the place (not this place IRL as well) do i want to be telling and discussing my reasons. I can't imagine standing in the middle of the shopping center discussing my past to some random stranger who chooses to roll there eyes because of my want of a ceaser.
So my answer to the OP is due to experiences in my past that affect my relationship with any health professionals i had a non medically necessary c-section.
spiritedbirth
18-05-2008, 20:11
onemummy
well it has offended me bigtime! I did all the research I could and things still went the wrong way, you sound exactly like my OB who told me my birth trauma was my fault for having high expectations about my birth.
When in my post did I say it was your fault? I put most of the blame on the current maternity system.
Well you must learn to respect the opinions and helpful replies of other women too. You have made some replies on here that I am not so sure of either. Each to their own...
As for being referred to an obstetrician you obviously have missed the point in my whole post and I am nothing like an obstetrician!!
If you do not like someones opinion maybe you should think about leaving if you cannot accept varied opinions. My post was not to offend and it was put in the c-section discussion and debate section ! Sorry for you birth trauma noone should have to go through that.
I am not sorry for my post I stand by every word I said in it. By the way I do support women who have medical births just for your information..
Thanks for your lovely, delightful and informative reply!:yelclap:Hope it pleases you.
Ana Gram
18-05-2008, 23:08
Gain the support you need, talk to independant midwives, go to your local community midwifery centre , look at websites on birth that are created by homebirth midwives, doulas etc..
This is where you will learn the truth about birth and how to have the best birth possible in the current maternity system.
You know what, I wouldn't let another midwife anywhere near me as my birth trauma was the result of one idiot midwife.
Lucybelle
18-05-2008, 23:17
Midwives are not all the same!
Why would you use that quote? I'm not being a smart *** but did you actually read the quote?
Ana Gram
18-05-2008, 23:30
Midwives are not all the same!
Why would you use that quote? I'm not being a smart *** but did you actually read the quote?
I don't care if they aren't all the same. One incredibly bad experience has tarnished the whole profession for me and I would not trust another one with my body again.
And yes I did read the whole quote.
Vaginismus
Can be achieved.
The muscles do their own thing during that time. Pregnancy also makes you more elastic in that region to aid the birthing process. And there are ways and means to prepare yourself - including the epi-no. Ultimately you just have to trust that your body can do it - because it can.
It can be done. I know because I did it.
spiritedbirth
19-05-2008, 00:12
You know what, I wouldn't let another midwife anywhere near me as my birth trauma was the result of one idiot midwife.
Yes unfortunatley some (not all) midwives in the Hosptial system are now known as obstetric nurses not midwives. In my post I did refer to independant, homebirth and community based midwives not hospital midwives. It is a shame you have put all midwives in that catergory. Some of them are the only ones who still fight for womens rights in birth and try and help normalise the process for you.
Sorry you feel this way. This is one of the reasons I have opted out of going into midwifery as I do not know if I could work in a hospital situation (obstetric nuse) and watch the ways some (not all) demorilise women and the natural process of birth. I would do the 3 year direct entry course if i could be guaranteed community based midwiferey eg. homebirth midwife, independant etc..
Lucybelle
19-05-2008, 08:20
Thats sort of like sayng you can trust anyone named Tracey, as one bullied you in school or something!
I know of three Doulas that chose the profession after having bad birth experiences, they are passionate that no one have the same experience as them.
I also know 2 Doulas that have just taken on Middy studies (hard to get into!), so they CAN get into the hospital system and work from 'the inside' so to speak.
I had a bad midwife experience too for one birth, but was lucky enough to have 3 brilliant (non medical, non pushy) for my others.
I have also seen a midwife bring my friend through the memories of a horrific first birth, to go on and birth her second so beautifully it took much of the memories of the first away, and give her her body back.
It's up to you if you want to right the rest of the world off, but there are so many other options.
Ana Gram
19-05-2008, 09:23
That's sort of like saying you can trust anyone named Tracey, as one bullied you in school or something!
I know of three Doulas that chose the profession after having bad birth experiences, they are passionate that no one have the same experience as them.
I also know 2 Doulas that have just taken on Middy studies (hard to get into!), so they CAN get into the hospital system and work from 'the inside' so to speak.
I had a bad midwife experience too for one birth, but was lucky enough to have 3 brilliant (non medical, non pushy) for my others.
I have also seen a midwife bring my friend through the memories of a horrific first birth, to go on and birth her second so beautifully it took much of the memories of the first away, and give her her body back.
It's up to you if you want to right the rest of the world off, but there are so many other options.
And if someone called Tracey was responsible for that amount of emotional and physical damage to my body, I probably wouldn't want to go near anyone called Tracey.
I was bitten by a rottweiller a few weeks ago and has tarnished my opinion of all dogs. I know all dogs are not going to bite me but after the pain, terror and then ongoing problems from that bite, I don't want to go near another dog.
If it was simply bad service, I wouldn't feel so strongly about it but the fact of the matter is, serious damage was done to my body and I almost bled to death. I also haven't been able to have sex since giving birth. I absolutely do not want to go through it again and if I could find a doctor to remove my uterus, I would have done it already.
The experiences we have are important. Please don't discount mine because it goes against something you believe or doesn't come close to the experience you had. Mine was a horrible birth and I never want to go through another birth ever again. Yes, lots of women go on to have good births after having birth trauma, I'm just not interested in going down that path ever again.
I think people need to realise that some of us aren't interested in trying again to get the promised magical natural birth.
Lucybelle
19-05-2008, 12:43
I'm not pushing natural birth, I'm pushing empowerment and education. Nothing more.
Spirirted Birth- Failure to Progress = Failure to WAIT, and let the birthing mother do what she needs.....ggrrrrr
Absolutely!!! Thank you for that. :yelclap:
well it has offended me bigtime! I did all the research I could and things still went the wrong way, you sound exactly like my OB who told me my birth trauma was my fault for having high expectations about my birth.
The OB shouldn't have said that. But- research isn't everything. When you put yourself in a situation where you have no control...well, you have no control. There's absolutely nothing you can say or do for your body.
You know what, I wouldn't let another midwife anywhere near me as my birth trauma was the result of one idiot midwife.
Emphasis mine. You know how many idiot doctors there are? How about if you had an idiot plumber, would you never call one again? An idiot dentist, would you never again go to a dentist?
You really can't blame an entire profession for one person's mistakes.
Ana Gram
19-05-2008, 14:11
Emphasis mine. You know how many idiot doctors there are? How about if you had an idiot plumber, would you never call one again? An idiot dentist, would you never again go to a dentist?
You really can't blame an entire profession for one person's mistakes.
I really don't see why my decision to not have any more children because of the birth of the one I had really affects anyone else.
One persons actions whilst they are on the job DO tarnish my opinion of the lot of them. I don't see how this affects anyone else but me.
And for the record, yes I did stop seeing dentists because of a bad experience when I was young. But again, that is my decision based on my experience. I don't know how many more times I can say that.
I should really expand, it was one midwife who caused most of the problem but the rest of the midwives during my nightmare 4 day stay were all bad. So I not really basing my opinion on one singular midwife.
Chickadee
19-05-2008, 14:21
Our personal experiences shape our life and future decisions. There is no avoiding that. Some women on here will avoid obsteticians due to past bad experiences. And some will avoid hospital births or a particular hospital. And some will avoid midwives. Childbirth is a highly emotional issue for many women, so each to their own choice and lets not start picking each other apart.
In any case, this discussion has gone way off topic. Lets move on.
In any case, this discussion has gone way off topic. Lets move on.
I think it's still completely on topic. These are the issues surrounding birth, including c-sections.
I really don't see why my decision to not have any more children because of the birth of the one I had really affects anyone else.
One persons actions whilst they are on the job DO tarnish my opinion of the lot of them. I don't see how this affects anyone else but me.
And for the record, yes I did stop seeing dentists because of a bad experience when I was young. But again, that is my decision based on my experience. I don't know how many more times I can say that.
I should really expand, it was one midwife who caused most of the problem but the rest of the midwives during my nightmare 4 day stay were all bad. So I not really basing my opinion on one singular midwife.
And nor should you feel as though you have to 'justify' or explain.
Those are your feelings based on your experiences and are as valid as anyone elses.:)
I think it's a bit rough really to question things like this- birth is such an intimate experience, no matter how many times we, have been through it we cant ever begin to imagine what another womans experience was. Yes, we can empathise but we certainly cant say..oh I understand...., because we all have such different experiences.
MrsMiggins
19-05-2008, 15:05
I think it's still completely on topic. These are the issues surrounding birth, including c-sections.
These may be issues surrounding all forms of childbirth, however the original topic pertains to why women would choose to have an elective c/section. There are many reasons as members have clearly shown here, but this thread was not created to argue the pros/cons of any form of childbirth.
While a certain amount of veering from the original topic is tolerated, arguments & heated discussions revolving around aspects of a single post tend to divert the entire thread and this will not be allowed to continue.
spiraldancer
20-05-2008, 15:45
:flowerz: hi at times i find bubhub fascinating at others it seems to become a viscious debate vag v c/s i think no one should have to justify there reasons because all our experiences are different.
Mummaholic
20-05-2008, 16:16
Midwives are not all the same!
Similarily, either are natural birth experiences. I had birth trauma from my natural 26 hr long birth for a variety of reasons.
Needless to say, neither are OBs all the same.
LilMissnBoo
20-05-2008, 17:45
i think no one should have to justify there reasons because all our experiences are different.
:iagree:100%.
CrankyAndTired
20-05-2008, 18:10
I am having my first baby in November by caesarean. 100% elective c-section.
I don't need to be "proud" of my choice, or ashamed. It's MY choice.
And yes, the risk of damaging my vagina permanently does factor into my decision. My sex life is important to me - I don't apologize for that.
I just wish everyone could make their own decisions about how they have their babies without the constant judgment..
What matters is a healthy happy baby, and a healthy happy momma..
Peace :o
In answer to the OP, I decided to have a c/s. No medical reason, no pressure from my Ob, just completely my decision from day 1.
I won't go into the reasons because even if I did list them, it probably wouldn't mean much to you as they are based on my feelings, my experiences in life and my circumstances. So as so many people have said, my reasons for having a c/s were because it was the right decision for me and my baby.
spiritedbirth
20-05-2008, 18:43
hi at times i find bubhub fascinating at others it seems to become a viscious debate vag v c/s i think no one should have to justify there reasons because all our experiences are different.
Yes but where else can you debate this topic not in the positve caeser thread of course!! I think it is ok to debate this topic and have your opinion in this forum as it is in a c-section debate subforum isn't it?
What I see happening in the current maternity system is women are starting to believe c-section has better health benefits to mum and baby which research has shown to be quite the opposite.
On the other hand I do know of women though who have been sexually abused and have decided on a c-section for this reason and who can blame them!!
Women have been designed to birth and some obstetricians and carers (not all) are stripping this away from women by telling lies regarding the state of their own welfare and babies whilst pregnant...pelvis too small, not enough fluid around baby, baby heads to big etc..the carers seem supportive of a vaginal birth at the start and then towards the end of the pregnancy when it all seems so real & baby is bigger the families are hit with the misinformation...(some are legit but not all) I think we need to do a c/s
I will be the first one to say in labour if a major complication arose and I had to have a c-section I would do it to save my baby and/or myself. I would put my hand up gladly. If I was told when I was preganant a medical condition arose i would probably not book in my date for c-section, I would get many other opinions before making my decision.
I would not though elect a c-section without a medical reason because I know the many many benefits baby and mum receive from going through labour and birth:)
This is my opinion and please I have respect for your choices to have a c/section so please be respectful of above post to birth vaginally.
This is my opinion and please I have respect for your choices to have a c/section so please be respectful of above post to birth vaginally.
But do people respect our choice to c/s?? Why do these threads come up time and time again asking us for our reasons why we chose to have caesars. Why do you need to know our reasons??
I wouldn't dream of going into the natural birth section and asking women to justify and explain their reasons for making the choices they do.
Please note I'm not directing this post at you, I just can't work out why I and others who elect c/s need to justify it to others.
spiritedbirth
20-05-2008, 19:18
You know why I am so passionate about these topics and will debate them till I can no longer talk and old and grey ??LOL!! I see the end results of women who dearly wanted to birth vaginally and could not because they have been told reasons that are unjustified. Some end up with lifelong counselling, marriage break-ups, infections, lack of baby & mum bonding etc.. There is no excuse for it and if I can do anything right it is to let women know I am sorry it has happened to them.
It is a shame...Carers sometimes are making out like it is a walk in the park to have major abdominal surgery, it can be in some cases but majority no.
I do not look down on women who have c/sections. I look down at the medical system who have let birth turn into the state it is in today..everyone pregnant is looked at as a complication or something needs to be fixed.
Misinformation is the key to these topics
Sorry for the rant.. :ecomcity:good question OP I have heard some great replies
You are right no choice is wrong or right choice for personal reasons.
For health benefits and risks to mum and baby there is a wrong and right choice..
Fuchsia!
20-05-2008, 19:20
I think because people are curious thats all. And its great that people ask, it means they care enough to ask and they want to learn. Its a good thing i reckon.
No one is asking people to justify your reasons. If people don't want to say why then they don't post, its as easy as that. If you are 100% happy about your decision to have an elect C/S then what does it matter? Im happy about the decision i made. No one is going to make me feel guilty, cause they can't make me feel guilty cause im 100% happy with my decision.
I have gone into the homebirth section and ask why they have homebirths. To me it was a stupid idea, and i wanted to know more. I came away with a much better understanding and respect for homebirthers and i would never have that if i never asked.
There are always going to be people who don't understand or don't care, but there are always someone in the bunch who DO care and its up to us to tell them our reason :)
Fuchsia!
20-05-2008, 19:25
You know why I am so passionate about these topics and will debate them till I can no longer talk and old and grey ??LOL!! I see the end results of women who dearly wanted to birth vaginally and could not because they have been told reasons that are unjustified. Some end up with lifelong counselling, marriage break-ups, infections, lack of baby & mum bonding etc.. There is no excuse for it and if I can do anything right it is to let women know I am sorry it has happened to them.
It is a shame...Carers sometimes are making out like it is a walk in the park to have major abdominal surgery, it can be in some cases but majority no.
I do not look down on women who have c/sections. I look down at the medical system who have let birth turn into the state it is in today..everyone pregnant is looked at as a complication or something needs to be fixed.
Misinformation is the key to these topics
Sorry for the rant.. :ecomcity:good question OP I have heard some great replies
You are right no choice is wrong or right choice for personal reasons.
For health benefits and risks to mum and baby there is a wrong and right choice..
:iagree: 100%
spiritedbirth
20-05-2008, 19:28
If you are 100% happy about your decision to have an elect C/S then what does it matter? Im happy about the decision i made. No one is going to make me feel guilty, cause they can't make me feel guilty cause im 100% happy with my decision.
:iagree:
OMG that is so funny we must have been typing nearly the same thoughts at once I just posted the same comment (worded slightly different) in another thread!!
tyler's mum
20-05-2008, 19:40
I just dont understand unless its medically nessecary why someone would want to have a c-section :confused: Is it because they dont want to ruin their vagina, are scared of the pain, dont want to push ?
I dont want this to turn into any sort of argument I'm just genuinely asking why?
If i was ever to have another baby the only way i would if is i could get a c-section. Both me and tyler almost died. tyler's heart rate dropped down to 30 she got stuck and i got cut and tear very bad. It took them over a hour to stitch me back up:( I would never go through that again. Tyler is 2.5 and i still have nitemares about it
ComeBackKid
20-05-2008, 20:07
i have been following this thread but didnt want to enter into it because it was getting a bit vicious and personal but I have to say while discussion/debate might be needed in this area to question people's motives for birth choices is not necessary. I have had one emergency c/s (where the midwives and doctors did everything to get DS out naturally when it just wasnt going to happen) and one 'elective' c/s. At the end of the day, as mothers we have made the decisions that we think is best for our children and best for us so we can perform our role as mothers. C/S is not a walk in the park and personally I think a lot harder to recover from than a STRAIGHT FORWARD vaginal birth. While there might be some interest in why women elect to have caesars I think it is just plain rude and disrespectful (no matter how one much one protests that they respect another's choice) to question anyone's decision on such a personal topic. I would have liked to have a vaginal birth but it didnt work out that way. No one questions why women 'choose' to have natural births and I dont think women who choose or otherwise have c/s should have to either. No one should have to justify or explain their method of birth even though women are expected to have a 'good' reason not to have given birth vaginally. While there may be genuine interest in this topic, the pressure for women to have a 'valid' reason for a c/s is not respecting them or their choices in the least.
Personally, I am in awe of women able to birth vaginally as I did have a painful and prolonged labor without sucess and I know it is damn hard and an absolutely amazing experience. And I also have a huge amout of respect for women who have had c/s by choice or necessity because I know it is hard to recover and makes the initial time with a newborn difficult.
At the end of the day I respect all mothers because being pregnant, giving birth and raising kids -regardless of the methods- is a damn hard job and i dont think we are given enough credit for it. Huge hugs to all the mums out there, cos i think you are ALL wonderful.
Thats my two cents worth anyway!
PrincessT
01-06-2008, 10:06
I chose to have a c/s and its got nothing to do with the fact that I didnt want to have a stretched vagaina or was too posh to push.
The medical system did not let me down. Its the everyday layperson who constantly let me down. I was informed when I chose my c/s and had lots of reasons why I elected to have one.
First of all. I'm not afraid of birth or the pain. I have been through so much trauma through an accident as a child that birth pain would feel like a walk in the park. I suffer pain daily and I live with it.
Secondly, I do have medical reasons. I have irreversable spinal trauma. My pelvis is so damaged that my spinal specialist suggested for me that child bearing would be quite difficult. But through determination and strengthening I have learnt how to make what is damaged a little more normal.
Even without this, I would have easily elected a c/s. Not because I am misinformed or let down but simply because I can. Many tried to change my mind (even those who know my medical problems and some who dont) but I told them quite frankly that its not their business. What their business is, is their own body.
I so admire those who are so passionate about natural birth. I'm sure it means a lot to you but I found my c/s empowering and I find it difficult to understand how people find it silly when I say that my planned medical induced birth empowering. I felt so powerful and strong after her birth. It was the most amazing moment of my life.
Well, to put it simply for me, the object of falling pregnant was a baby not a birth. The baby was my desired result. I didnt care how she came out... even if she came out of my nose, the objective was a live healthy bub.
Now, I am sure that this sounds very strange to some (most likely many) women but I dont mind. I would never, ever presume to ask some other couple to explain anything to do with their birth or why and how it was achived. Thats their business and mine is mine.
I have supported friends who have birth naturally. I gave support when asked by a friend who wanted a VBAC and was very active it helping her prepare. What I love is that it was their choice just as mine was mine. Nobody tired to make my decision for me and I was really informed on each of their births and objectives.
One of the things that stands in my mind was a woman who just couldnt understand why anyone would have a c/s as she thought it was no unatural. I calmly asked her if she would care to go into the IVF clinic and tell all the couples in there that what they were doing was not natural and she blushed. Its funny how, in her mind, it was ok to have medical intervention for the conception but not for the birth.
kerrysinead
01-06-2008, 10:34
Excellent reply :iagree:
Mummaholic
01-06-2008, 11:03
What their business is, is their own body.
I so admire those who are so passionate about natural birth. I'm sure it means a lot to you but I found my c/s empowering and I find it difficult to understand how people find it silly when I say that my planned medical induced birth empowering. I felt so powerful and strong after her birth. It was the most amazing moment of my life.
Well, to put it simply for me, the object of falling pregnant was a baby not a birth. The baby was my desired result. I didnt care how she came out... even if she came out of my nose, the objective was a live healthy bub.
Now, I am sure that this sounds very strange to some (most likely many) women but I dont mind. I would never, ever presume to ask some other couple to explain anything to do with their birth or why and how it was achived. Thats their business and mine is mine.
I have supported friends who have birth naturally. I gave support when asked by a friend who wanted a VBAC and was very active it helping her prepare. What I love is that it was their choice just as mine was mine. Nobody tired to make my decision for me and I was really informed on each of their births and objectives.
One of the things that stands in my mind was a woman who just couldnt understand why anyone would have a c/s as she thought it was no unatural. I calmly asked her if she would care to go into the IVF clinic and tell all the couples in there that what they were doing was not natural and she blushed. Its funny how, in her mind, it was ok to have medical intervention for the conception but not for the birth.
I love your whole post but particularly these bits :)
sockstealingpoltergeist
01-06-2008, 13:34
I chose to have a c/s and its got nothing to do with the fact that I didnt want to have a stretched vagaina or was too posh to push.
The medical system did not let me down. Its the everyday layperson who constantly let me down. I was informed when I chose my c/s and had lots of reasons why I elected to have one.
First of all. I'm not afraid of birth or the pain. I have been through so much trauma through an accident as a child that birth pain would feel like a walk in the park. I suffer pain daily and I live with it.
Secondly, I do have medical reasons. I have irreversable spinal trauma. My pelvis is so damaged that my spinal specialist suggested for me that child bearing would be quite difficult. But through determination and strengthening I have learnt how to make what is damaged a little more normal.
Even without this, I would have easily elected a c/s. Not because I am misinformed or let down but simply because I can. Many tried to change my mind (even those who know my medical problems and some who dont) but I told them quite frankly that its not their business. What their business is, is their own body.
I so admire those who are so passionate about natural birth. I'm sure it means a lot to you but I found my c/s empowering and I find it difficult to understand how people find it silly when I say that my planned medical induced birth empowering. I felt so powerful and strong after her birth. It was the most amazing moment of my life.
Well, to put it simply for me, the object of falling pregnant was a baby not a birth. The baby was my desired result. I didnt care how she came out... even if she came out of my nose, the objective was a live healthy bub.
Now, I am sure that this sounds very strange to some (most likely many) women but I dont mind. I would never, ever presume to ask some other couple to explain anything to do with their birth or why and how it was achived. Thats their business and mine is mine.
I have supported friends who have birth naturally. I gave support when asked by a friend who wanted a VBAC and was very active it helping her prepare. What I love is that it was their choice just as mine was mine. Nobody tired to make my decision for me and I was really informed on each of their births and objectives.
One of the things that stands in my mind was a woman who just couldnt understand why anyone would have a c/s as she thought it was no unatural. I calmly asked her if she would care to go into the IVF clinic and tell all the couples in there that what they were doing was not natural and she blushed. Its funny how, in her mind, it was ok to have medical intervention for the conception but not for the birth.
What excellent points you have made! They probably won't be addressed though.
I will say this -it is true that some women get an uneeded/unwanted C section- no one is saying that is OK! However there are plenty of women who choose to have c section or had to have or where advised to have and are at peace and even very happy with this!
Why must women who have an elective C section have to justify it over and over agian??? The real reason these topics are bought up by some is because they feel that they have the right/superior ideas about birth and those who opt for a c section are soooo misguided and just don't get it. WE GET IT- we just disagree, and that is perfectly OK!
I would never go into the home birthing threads and tell a home birther that they are wrong and real off stats and studies to them (we can all do this) - because I happen to believe it is their body their child and their birth.
Empathy can go along way! Some people may like to try and use it.
:iagree::iagree:
I want to know 'What is so WRONG with a c/s?'
I have had 2 and have absolutely no regrets, although i was devistated when ds1 was born cause i didnt get to push him out and experience a v/b, and then devistated again to have to repeat the c/s with ds2. But i got over it and now am proud of what i went through and have like i said NO regrets.
I too got pregnnant to have a baby not to birth, and i couldnt be happier.
Although there are many riskd in c/s there are just as many in v/b. I would never put any woman down for how she delivered her baby, therefore would expect not to be put down for the way my babies were born. I am still a mum and have been through the pregnancy like all other mums.
Iam going to have a vba2c for no3, i am determined to do it, but i am still happy about births 1&2.
for the record i didnt 'elect' to have any of my c/sections, but i am happy bout it now.
After reading previous threads, i did notice that al ot of women think that the only way to have a baby is vaginaly, that is not the case i dont think.
I also think too that there are alot women out there who are misinformed by ob's and m/wives, and some dr's dont want to take the risks in vbac's we do have rights so stand up and be heard and do what ever you feel comfortable.
Fuchsia!
01-06-2008, 16:59
I will say this -it is true that some women get an uneeded/unwanted C section- no one is saying that is OK! However there are plenty of women who choose to have c section or had to have or where advised to have and are at peace and even very happy with this!
Why must women who have an elective C section have to justify it over and over agian???
The real reason these topics are bought up by some is because they feel that they have the right/superior ideas about birth and those who opt for a c section are soooo misguided and just don't get it. WE GET IT- we just disagree, and that is perfectly OK!
No one is making any one justify themselves, its up to each individual if they would like to state their reasons why.
Yes there are some woman out there who have had a wonderful C/S, me for one. But what about the people who didn't? The ones that still have nightmares, and the ones who cry themselves to sleep each night? What about the ones who cry each time they look at their scar and cry and wonder why they couldn't have the birth they wanted? How about them? DO we just fob them off? Shouldn't we help protect women from having to go through that? There are always naive women out there who don't have any idea about the risks about C/S's they just go along and think that its easy and its the best option, or they get pressured into it from OB's, when they could have had a natural birth.
I will never shut up about the risks of C/S. If i can save one woman from the trauma of an un-nescessary C/S i'll be happy.
I would never go into the home birthing threads and tell a home birther that they are wrong and real off stats and studies to them (we can all do this) - because I happen to believe it is their body their child and their birth.
Empathy can go along way! Some people may like to try and use it.This is the C/S discussion boards so this is where we discuss it.
Yes empathy CAN go along way ;)
I want to know 'What is so WRONG with a c/s?'
Although there are many risks in c/s there are just as many in v/b.
I am going to have a vba2c for no3, i am determined to do it, but i am still happy about births 1&2.
There is no where near as many risks involved with a VB as their is a C/S, you can't even come close im afraid.
Good luck with your VBA2C, i wish you all the best :flowerz:
I would never go into the home birthing threads and tell a home birther that they are wrong and real off stats and studies to them (we can all do this) - because I happen to believe it is their body their child and their birth.
Why would you compare a caesarean birth with a homebirth? I don't understand why you think there is a comparison.
A homebirth is just a normal vaginal birth, same as in a hospital. It's no different. It the same way women have been giving birth forever. Why do you think homebirth deserves to be singled out? Why not all vaginal births? I am genuinely curious.
I am sure the homebirth threads would welcome your stats and studies. The quest for information includes all information so I am sure people would love to know what you have found out.
I reckon you should do it. I am considering a homebirth for my next child and if there is something that you know that I don't know, then I would love it if you shared it with me. I want the safest possible outcome I can and I haven't come across the stats and studies you are referring to.
Im just curious what makes everyone sure they have the right information statistics, risks etc?
Is it from the net, books are have you studied?
I know i have researched lot of things and asked alot of questions and got conflicting info on the same subjects.
How will we be SO sure?? Can we really way up our options based on this.
MyFourCubs
01-06-2008, 21:29
I have come into this thread late and I have tried to read all the posts. I just want to say that my c-section was a wonderful experience. I did not "elect" to have one- I had placenta praevia and my bub was delivered via emergancy c- section as she was IUGR and my placenta was conking out, but I would have fought for a c-section regardless as my two vaginal births SUCKED.:thumbsdown: Major heommorages, surgery required, awful. AWFUL. I have come to the conclusion that while there are many women out there who "birth the proper way...." I am not one of them. Ceasers are not the end of the world, really enjoyed mine- recovery was fantastic, only lost a litre of blood woo-hoo!!:smiliedance: and got a very cute baby girl at the end of it!:)
Just one comment though, I'm sure if many women saw the "ceaser belly" that you end up with post-op they would probably try a vb if they could!
Sara
I completely understand why someone would want a caesarean for placenta praevia or even after a traumatic vb.
PrincessT
01-06-2008, 21:50
Are there women who would cry themselves to sleep because of a scar? Thats sad if its purely for beauty reasons because often they have this scar and as a result they (most often) have their own beautiful baby. I feel so much pain for any woman who has had any trauma any kind of birth because for what should be an amazing experience for so many is not.
You know, I have a friend with a hiddeous c/s scar and even her husband commented that they are pretty bad on the scale of things and she told me that she would rather have thousands of them then cry over the fact that something happened to her child that an emergency c/s could have prevented.
I believe sockstealingpoltergeist was referring to the fact that many people come on the c/s boards and try and make us feel inferior because of our choices or deliberatly question why we would chose a c/s. I think she was trying to say that she would like the respect and wouldnt think about going onto another sub-section (such as homebirthing for an example) and start asking why they would choose to have their bubs at home and be invasive with questions that are often of no concern to them -Thats how I read her post anyway! Perhaps I am wrong?
And yes, I understand that these are the c/s boards but realistically, its one of those sub sections that on pretty much all parenting websites where there is a lot of arguments and it does get tiring after a while.
You know the main objective here should be that we feel comfortable with our decision. Sometimes this decision is taken out of our hands and sometimes its not and it should be. I for one see the evidence of this - my aunt died 14 years ago from birth complications and I just wish something was done for her sooner. She had her baby at 26 weeks (or 27 cant remember) and the baby survived and she didnt. Ever since then, I saw birth in a different light - not about not choosing one birth type over another but rather that we should all be proactive in our decision and supportive of those made by people around us. I also am a firm believer that if you think something is wrong and your help (medical or otherwise) is not supportive in your view than you should always ask for a second opinion.
Im just curious what makes everyone sure they have the right information statistics, risks etc?
Is it from the net, books are have you studied?
I know i have researched lot of things and asked alot of questions and got conflicting info on the same subjects.
How will we be SO sure?? Can we really way up our options based on this.
You can't. A lot of what our parents 'knew' as 'fact' 20-30 years ago we scoff at now, and a lot of what we know as fact today our kids will scoff at in 20-30 years time.
That and even 'research' in journals, by third parties is often biased. As much as the scientific community like to think we're going in it for discovery or whatever it is common practice, and very easy to nudge the experiment one way or the other depending on the result you want.
All research given out by a certain belief group (too tired to think of a better term) like a pro-VB or pro breastfeeding or pro certain type of child car restraint or whatever place is biased. Doesn't matter if it was done by a third party I guarantee it is biased.
I've worked in labs and I know the games people/organizations play.
These sorts of groups don't just commission 1 lab to do their research, they commission at least half a dozen and publish the results they like best. Every lab still gets paid, and they get the influence they want.
People think they are doing the 'right thing' and getting the 'best' info by extensive research, trusting everything they read because it sounds scientific are often being conned. Unless you have done the actual experiment yourself you can't know 100%
But honestly what else can people do? All we can do is our best, time will tell if it was good or completely misguided.
our little treasures
01-06-2008, 22:41
No one is making any one justify themselves, its up to each individual if they would like to state their reasons why.
Yes there are some woman out there who have had a wonderful C/S, me for one. But what about the people who didn't? The ones that still have nightmares, and the ones who cry themselves to sleep each night? What about the ones who cry each time they look at their scar and cry and wonder why they couldn't have the birth they wanted? How about them? DO we just fob them off? Shouldn't we help protect women from having to go through that? There are always naive women out there who don't have any idea about the risks about C/S's they just go along and think that its easy and its the best option, or they get pressured into it from OB's, when they could have had a natural birth.
I will never shut up about the risks of C/S. If i can save one woman from the trauma of an un-nescessary C/S i'll be happy.
This is the C/S discussion boards so this is where we discuss it.
Yes empathy CAN go along way ;)
There is no where near as many risks involved with a VB as their is a C/S, you can't even come close im afraid.
Good luck with your VBA2C, i wish you all the best :flowerz:
:yelclap: I agree
Im just curious what makes everyone sure they have the right information statistics, risks etc?
Is it from the net, books are have you studied?
I know i have researched lot of things and asked alot of questions and got conflicting info on the same subjects.
How will we be SO sure?? Can we really way up our options based on this.
I don't think anyone needs statistics to know that cs are major abdominal surgery which would come with risks of complications not only to the mum but to baby. Why would you go out and do that unless it was absolutely without a doubt needed?:confused:
All research given out by a certain belief group (too tired to think of a better term) like a pro-VB or pro breastfeeding or pro certain type of child car restraint or whatever place is biased. Doesn't matter if it was done by a third party I guarantee it is biased.
I've worked in labs and I know the games people/organizations play.
These sorts of groups don't just commission 1 lab to do their research, they commission at least half a dozen and publish the results they like best. Every lab still gets paid, and they get the influence they want.
Are you saying that the "pro vb" movement is biased? For what purpose?
I know who makes money out of the high caesarean rate (an OB in private practice can make around a million dollars a year).
Sorry, I am having trouble understanding your comments.
PrincessT, they don't cry for beauty reasons, they cry because they had a caesarean that they didn't need and an experience they wanted was taken away from them. Of course some caesareans are medically necessary OF COURSE!! We know that!! They are wonderful for that purpose and the women who know that that is why they needed it are usually fine about it, happy even, relieved and thankful.
But many are not. That is the problem, not caesareans themselves. Not at all. Nor the people who have had them. Its not about individual people, its about what is happening in the system. They are being performed on people who don't want them and don't need them.
I don't know why people have so much trouble understanding that?
People have a right to have one if they want. But they also have a right not to have one if they don't need one. This right is being taken away from many women every year.
Mother Duck
01-06-2008, 22:51
I haven't got time to read the thread properly tonight (sorry) but in answer to your q'n
My dear friend (who is very clever, tenacious, and can do anything she puts her mind too) had a Csect with her 1st after a HUGE attempt at vag. birth - then she had a VBAC with her second (strong woman her!) but it was a really difficult birth
She just had her third bub and elected for a csect to put her mind at ease
She was in a point blank panic even just thinking about the birth, until she made that decision.
I just had a homebirth with number 3 (complete opposite you might say) and I have to say the panic that I emitted at the thought of going to the hospy to birth was prob equal to the panic that she felt to try vaginal birthing again
Both of us were so calm at the thought of birthing in a way we could deal with well
And now we both have two GORGEOUS, healthy and equally cared for number three babies
anyway - just in case it is any help that is my two bobs worth
Are you saying that the "pro vb" movement is biased? For what purpose?
Yes I am saying it is biased. For the purpose of converting as many people as possible to the same belief system. I surely don't need to remind anyone that human beings are notoriously arrogant creatures who want everyone to believe what they believe or at least on some level agree with it. Wars have been waged based purely on differed beliefs.
I know who makes money out of the high caesarean rate (an OB in private practice can make around a million dollars a year).
Money isn't the issue, belief is the issue.
Sorry, I am having trouble understanding your comments.
I doubt it is trouble understanding, more trouble agreeing. ;)
Accept it or refuse it, it's up to you. :thumbsup:
chicky2lala
02-06-2008, 07:04
:yelclap: I agree
I don't think anyone needs statistics to know that cs are major abdominal surgery which would come with risks of complications not only to the mum but to baby. Why would you go out and do that unless it was absolutely without a doubt needed?:confused:
Because it is our right and we want to.:confused:
chicky2lala
02-06-2008, 07:07
People have a right to have one if they want. But they also have a right not to have one if they don't need one. This right is being taken away from many women every year.
Aha sums up my feelings on the matter.:yelclap:
:yelclap: I agree
I don't think anyone needs statistics to know that cs are major abdominal surgery which would come with risks of complications not only to the mum but to baby. Why would you go out and do that unless it was absolutely without a doubt needed?:confused:
I think everyone knows that it is major surgery and of course there may be complications, what i was saying there are also risks in v/b's that maybe people dont want to admit.
I know there are people who think that women who have c/s are cowardly and dont want the pain of a v/b or for what ever reason.
There are a lot of mums on here who have had traumatic births and just dont want to go through that again,i dont blame them, they have generiously shared their birth stories with us let us really know what can happen.
Correct me if im wrong, but the OP was that relating to first time mums or all mums?
Im not PRO anything really i just know what i agree with. :)
Just a thought that popped into my head!
If c/s hold so many risks, way more than v/b's.
Then why are VBAC's deemed soooo dangerous?
twotrunks
02-06-2008, 10:41
Well, to put it simply for me, the object of falling pregnant was a baby not a birth. The baby was my desired result. I didnt care how she came out... even if she came out of my nose, the objective was a live healthy bub.
Isn't the point many ("pro-VB") posters are trying to make that you have a better chance of getting a "live healthy bub" if you have a VB?
Obviously if there are prevailing medical conditions that necessitiate you having a CS then that is one story - we all know that CS which are termed "elective" are not always elective as such. It seems the OP was talking about people who choose CS without a serious medical (or serious psychological) reason. I really don't think that anyone can argue that the statistics on this one are biased or lie - in a uncomplicated birth situation, it is simply safer for mother and baby to have a VB. If you choose to have a CS that is of course your right. But I think anyone who convinces themselves that VB are just as risky as CS is kidding themselves. The outomes for most babies are better if they are delivered by VB. Simple. (Again I say MOST babies - not babies of people who have medical conditions or other circumstances beyond their control - so please don't get offended those of you who have HAD to have a CS, that isn't what I am talking about).
TT
Dabneygirl
02-06-2008, 11:53
Just a thought that popped into my head!
If c/s hold so many risks, way more than v/b's.
Then why are VBAC's deemed soooo dangerous?
because of a scar on the uterus of course. From the c-section.
If you avoid a c-section in the first place you won't have that problem.
Shed: I wish I knew people like you when I was pregnant with my first child. I wish I wish I wish :(.
I am one of the women you mention. Who had a c-section she didn't want or need. At the time I was so greatful. Now I am just angry at being deceived. The VBAC helped heal me somewhat, but I still want to try and help others.
Some things just cant be avoided.
So obviosly you are saying that the risks of having a VB outway those of a CS, i get that but mums and bubs have died giving birth vaginaly. Whether it was their first or second, third whatever.
And mums and babies have died during c-sections or directly as a result of the procedure due to complications.
Vaginal births are statistically the safest way to birth for both mother and child.
Mummaholic
02-06-2008, 16:49
Sigh. This thread is supposed to be about why would you choose to elect a caesar. Not why caesars and obs are the devil and vaginal births are all utopian.
SassyMummy
02-06-2008, 16:53
Sigh. This thread is supposed to be about why would you choose to elect a caesar. Not why caesars and obs are the devil and vaginal births are all utopian.
Yeah... come to the homebirth section if you wanna read about that...:devil::raspberry::laughing::p
mythreelittlemonkeys
02-06-2008, 17:19
I chose to elect a ceasar for my 2nd child
Main reasons they would have chopped me open anyway if laboured longer than 10 hours. anyhow..
My DH and I felt more comfortable with it after umming and ahhing the pros and cons...not just physical, but emotional, environmental and practicality.
I had a totally relaxed, happy and to me (though I know some of you wont understand this) beautiful experience of birth.
My recovery much speedier than after the emergency c section.
Okay my DS has had feeding issues but I know a homebirther and a regular VB'er whose babies have had exactly same issues and we have all come good...I am fully Bfeeding as I did with my other csect baby.
I have no regrets, no sleepless nights, like I have said in other threads I have a beautiful son and daughter and quite frankly dont give a second thought to the fact they came out of the sun roof.
I must say I agree that it seems that this subsection gets swamped with people who havent actually had them or who want to make sure we know we made not such a great decision...
sockstealingpoltergeist
02-06-2008, 18:38
Why would you compare a caesarean birth with a homebirth? I don't understand why you think there is a comparison.
A homebirth is just a normal vaginal birth, same as in a hospital. It's no different. It the same way women have been giving birth forever. Why do you think homebirth deserves to be singled out? Why not all vaginal births? I am genuinely curious.
I am sure the homebirth threads would welcome your stats and studies. The quest for information includes all information so I am sure people would love to know what you have found out.
I reckon you should do it. I am considering a homebirth for my next child and if there is something that you know that I don't know, then I would love it if you shared it with me. I want the safest possible outcome I can and I haven't come across the stats and studies you are referring to.
I don't understand why you can't see the comparison to home birth.
There have been risks associated with birth for forever.
The only problem is the homebirth camp and alot of the community seem to think C sections are flat out wrong. In most cases and alot of the community see homebirthing as wrong. That is where the similarity lies, there are dangers involved in both- you have read literature to back up your way of thinking and thus think you are right and justified in your opinion - and so have I.
The difference is I support you and your rights however you do not support others rights.
As I have allready mentioned- it is not right to give women c sections willy nilly. However if someone wants a C section then let them have it! And if someone wants a home birth thenlet them have it.
Again this thread is about trying to get women to justify why they would choose one.:hair:
So really you are all doing nothing to stop unwanted C sections and really at the heart of it I find that most of the homebirthing anti C sects are trying to also stop VERY wanted C sections, and change people to think like you! Why??????????
I have already had one emergency one and I am overdue with my 2nd child presently depending on what you consider overdue. And planning a HBAC I would rather book an elective then get induced, labour and labour and end up with another emergency one.
And really it has nothing to do with anyone but myself and my DH.
SassyMummy
02-06-2008, 19:00
Poltergeist, take a look at how many views this thread has compared to the replies.
I think a lot of the pro-VB posts in here are not directed at those who are actually replying, but those who may be reading and NOT replying. Those who have perhaps googled caesareans, and came in here for a peek.
If someone says, "I wanted a caeasarean because I feel it's safest for me," the pro-VBers aren't saying, "Well you're an absolute twit of a person and you honestly deserve to have no children, now go rot and die in some ditch somewhere." Not at all (I know I got a bit carried away...:p).
Instead, they're responding to the fact that someone might read that and, especially if there are other replies in here in agreeance to it being safe, believe it as gospel. Call women not that stupid all you want - I went and blindly had a caesarean because I trusted that it was safest for me because I was an absolute idiot. That's not the case with everyone who has a caesarean, certainly, but I was... and I'm surely not the only one who believed the lies she was fed, and ended up suffering for years after as a result.
I think it's so THOSE women can see that there is another side, without having to venture into a thousand different sections of the forum, and a billion seperate threads. They can see basic conflicting opinions, which may lead them to perhaps question the decision for them to have a caesarean... or perhaps look into getting a 2nd opinion... or ANY of that...
And I think THAT is why the pro-VBers post. Not to make you feel bad, not to make you feel inadequate as a woman or mother... but to make sure that some other woman out there can get a fantastic experience... and not just be suckered into something she may live to regret.
I know that, for me, it took a terrible birthing experience to get me to learn more... I only know what I do because I had a rubbish time with my caesarean (and it wasn't even a complicated one... just straightforward and routine)... and it would be great if someone could learn from those bad experiences and make a positive out of it for themselves...
I also think that pro-VBers get scared about the alarming rates of caesareans being performed. The more caesareans that are performed, the less support vaginal birth will have from the medical community, and then the ACTUAL community (general public I mean), and then...well... we have daughters to think of.
I don't want my daughter thinking that there's something wrong with her body, and that its design is somehow so flawed that it can't even do the most basic of what a female body is designed to do. I mean, choose a c-sec if she wants (though I'm hoping she wouldn't!), but I don't want her to believe that it's just the way things go when it comes to birth... and so it frightens me that c-sec rates are rising... what support will there be for her when she's having a baby and wants a VB?
I think the motives behind pro-VBers commenting in threads such as these are far from trying to make you feel cr*ppy.... they're just trying to make sure other women out there have the absolute best birthing experience they could have.
sockstealingpoltergeist
02-06-2008, 19:44
Poltergeist, take a look at how many views this thread has compared to the replies.
I think a lot of the pro-VB posts in here are not directed at those who are actually replying, but those who may be reading and NOT replying. Those who have perhaps googled caesareans, and came in here for a peek.
If someone says, "I wanted a caeasarean because I feel it's safest for me," the pro-VBers aren't saying, "Well you're an absolute twit of a person and you honestly deserve to have no children, now go rot and die in some ditch somewhere." Not at all (I know I got a bit carried away...:p).
Instead, they're responding to the fact that someone might read that and, especially if there are other replies in here in agreeance to it being safe, believe it as gospel. Call women not that stupid all you want - I went and blindly had a caesarean because I trusted that it was safest for me because I was an absolute idiot. That's not the case with everyone who has a caesarean, certainly, but I was... and I'm surely not the only one who believed the lies she was fed, and ended up suffering for years after as a result.
I think it's so THOSE women can see that there is another side, without having to venture into a thousand different sections of the forum, and a billion seperate threads. They can see basic conflicting opinions, which may lead them to perhaps question the decision for them to have a caesarean... or perhaps look into getting a 2nd opinion... or ANY of that...
And I think THAT is why the pro-VBers post. Not to make you feel bad, not to make you feel inadequate as a woman or mother... but to make sure that some other woman out there can get a fantastic experience... and not just be suckered into something she may live to regret.
I know that, for me, it took a terrible birthing experience to get me to learn more... I only know what I do because I had a rubbish time with my caesarean (and it wasn't even a complicated one... just straightforward and routine)... and it would be great if someone could learn from those bad experiences and make a positive out of it for themselves...
I also think that pro-VBers get scared about the alarming rates of caesareans being performed. The more caesareans that are performed, the less support vaginal birth will have from the medical community, and then the ACTUAL community (general public I mean), and then...well... we have daughters to think of.
I don't want my daughter thinking that there's something wrong with her body, and that its design is somehow so flawed that it can't even do the most basic of what a female body is designed to do. I mean, choose a c-sec if she wants (though I'm hoping she wouldn't!), but I don't want her to believe that it's just the way things go when it comes to birth... and so it frightens me that c-sec rates are rising... what support will there be for her when she's having a baby and wants a VB?
I think the motives behind pro-VBers commenting in threads such as these are far from trying to make you feel cr*ppy.... they're just trying to make sure other women out there have the absolute best birthing experience they could have.
Most threads have more views then replies.
I understand what you are saying and I have all along. I do not feel that they are trying to make me feel crappy, because they couldn't if they tried! I am happy with my life and decisions as a parent. I have never ever said that they were. I still do not agree with you.
If these threads were started or responded to in a way that really led me to believe what you are saying- I would have no problem with it. I would still disagree with you on alot of points though.
I do believe that C sections are a safe way to give birth. I have read many many studies and articles and I believe for a lot of women they are the way to go.
Homebirths- vaginal briths- hospital births, whatever you want or like, do not have to be one at the expense of all others. Before the C section rate was high home births were allready an almost non event. The two do not have to cancel each other out - women should have more choices not less. I will say this and ask this question once more??????
Again this thread is about trying to get women to justify why they would choose one.:hair:
So really nothing is being done to stop unwanted C sections and really at the heart of it I find that most of the homebirthing anti C sects are trying to also stop VERY wanted C sections, and change people to think like you! Why??????????
I don't understand why you can't see the comparison to home birth.
As I have allready mentioned- it is not right to give women c sections willy nilly. However if someone wants a C section then let them have it! And if someone wants a home birth thenlet them have it.
Again this thread is about trying to get women to justify why they would choose one.:hair:
So really you are all doing nothing to stop unwanted C sections and really at the heart of it I find that most of the homebirthing anti C sects are trying to also stop VERY wanted C sections, and change people to think like you! Why??????????
Your comparison is flawed. A homebirth is just a vaginal birth. That's all it is. Its the way that women have been giving birth forever and the species has thrived. All birth carries risks, that's true, so why increase them for no added benefit i.e. why have a caesarean if you don't need one? Its not a challenge, its not a request for justification, its just a question. Its interesting, that's all. Most people do all they can to avoid the things, and some people are drawn to them. That is interesting :detective:
And I totally, completely, one hundred percent agree with you about women who want a caesarean being allowed to have them. I couldn't agree more. I support this absolutely and completely without reservation.
To be honest I couldn't give a stuff about that, it makes up such a small percentage of caesareans anyway.
Which brings us to the question really. Most caesareans are therefore performed due to other factors, on people who don't actually want one.
This is a problem, I am sure you agree.
I don't want to stop 'wanted C-sections', I couldn't care less, I can't stress that enough, I honestly couldn't give a rats @rse mate. Seriously.
I desperately want to stop them being performed on unwilling women due to them being misinformed or straight out lied to, or having intervention that wasn't necessary in the first place.
I also want to stop them having them because they are basing their decision on fear of childbirth and they think its a better option when all they really need is nurturing and to be listened to and to have their fears allayed and have good support.
but the women who decide they just want one for whatever reason and then get all huffy when people refer to them as being too posh to push? I don't even think about them, they are happy so I am happy.
Lets keep things clear so we don't get confused about what the actual problem is so we don't get confused about people's motives when they try and solve it.
To the OP question. I dont really know most people but an example is my mother. She had several MCs and ando for years. AFter 9 years they finally fell pregnant and went full term. She was told due to cervical scarring from previous ops and procedures after miscarrages she might not be able to have a VB but she wanted to try. He let her go 19 days overdue before induction. She had a full enduction and he let that go on for 24 hours and she only dialated 2 cm. It was obvious to her and him that is wasnt going to happed so she had an Emerg C-sect. Wow what I woman I say and what a Dr. She was so proud of herself having made it that far. When my brother was born she didn't care how. She didnt even get to hold him. He was born in Nambour hospital which was really dodgey. The op room was at the other end of hospital to the nursery. A doctor ran my brother to the nusery with my dad running madly behind him. He was checked over and then sent back to mum. She BF him and continued that for around 12 months very successfully. She was offered a VBAC with my sister but she said no she tried VB and it didnt work. She saw no point in pushing her body further. She is a VB due to polyhydramnious, pre eclampsia and several other minor issues. I had a fantastic drug free labour. SHe was amazed at mother nature. How beautiful my labour was and how strong I was pushing through my contractions which as soon as my waters were broken were they were 30 secs apart for my whole labour. She said she is so glad she got to watch that as she missed out on the chance. Then she said later, wow amazing but really do you really care how you birthed?? I love that I had a VB but I dont really care how it happend. At 36 weeks my DR told me to throw out my birthplan because the problem with women is they expect the best possible outcome and if they dont get it end up fighting against their labour. Sure have a plan but expect to deter from that plan. I said to my Dr in no way do I want a epidural. NO MATTER WHAT. I would have rathered a c sect with and epi than a VB with one. She said sure but just remember you have never laboured before so dont put unneccessary expectations on yourself. She said I cant legally make you do a thing or its assult, she said I cant hook up a drip or epi or anything for that matter without your consent. What happens is up to you. So I dont think its Dr bullying because in my time in hospy I dealth with the majority of the Drs in the mater mothers and they were all the same. Great. They told us all the info we needed. I think its harsh to blame Dr's for women having high C sect rates. And I dont think it matters either. I dont like the whole too posh to push idea but I also dont like abortion. What I do like is womens right to have control over their bodies and however they can get that should be ok. I wish ppl would stop caring so much about why ppl birth a certain way.what we should care about is that Mum and baby are safe! That is the main priority.
Mrs Potts
02-06-2008, 20:59
Again this thread is about trying to get women to justify why they would choose one.:hair:
Ummmm.... why should "we" have to justify our choices to anyone? :confused:
reAllytee
02-06-2008, 21:01
Your comparison is flawed. A homebirth is just a vaginal birth. That's all it is. Its the way that women have been giving birth forever and the species has thrived. All birth carries risks, that's true, so why increase them for no added benefit i.e. why have a caesarean if you don't need one? Its not a challenge, its not a request for justification, its just a question. Its interesting, that's all. Most people do all they can to avoid the things, and some people are drawn to them. That is interesting :detective:
And I totally, completely, one hundred percent agree with you about women who want a caesarean being allowed to have them. I couldn't agree more. I support this absolutely and completely without reservation.
To be honest I couldn't give a stuff about that, it makes up such a small percentage of caesareans anyway.
Which brings us to the question really. Most caesareans are therefore performed due to other factors, on people who don't actually want one.
This is a problem, I am sure you agree.
I don't want to stop 'wanted C-sections', I couldn't care less, I can't stress that enough, I honestly couldn't give a rats @rse mate. Seriously.
I desperately want to stop them being performed on unwilling women due to them being misinformed or straight out lied to, or having intervention that wasn't necessary in the first place.
I also want to stop them having them because they are basing their decision on fear of childbirth and they think its a better option when all they really need is nurturing and to be listened to and to have their fears allayed and have good support.
but the women who decide they just want one for whatever reason and then get all huffy when people refer to them as being too posh to push? I don't even think about them, they are happy so I am happy.
Lets keep things clear so we don't get confused about what the actual problem is so we don't get confused about people's motives when they try and solve it.
:yelclap::yelclap:
Everything this wonderful woman has said is what most of 'us' are doing in here.
I was going to be one of those blindly led into a c/s & im so damn grateful for the likes of Shed for opening my eyes as well as many others as to what its all really about !
*bows down*
MyFourCubs
02-06-2008, 22:46
I also think that pro-VBers get scared about the alarming rates of caesareans being performed. The more caesareans that are performed, the less support vaginal birth will have from the medical community, and then the ACTUAL community (general public I mean), and then...well... we have daughters to think of.
I don't want my daughter thinking that there's something wrong with her body, and that its design is somehow so flawed that it can't even do the most basic of what a female body is designed to do. I mean, choose a c-sec if she wants (though I'm hoping she wouldn't!), but I don't want her to believe that it's just the way things go when it comes to birth... and so it frightens me that c-sec rates are rising... what support will there be for her when she's having a baby and wants a VB?
I think the motives behind pro-VBers commenting in threads such as these are far from trying to make you feel cr*ppy.... they're just trying to make sure other women out there have the absolute best birthing experience they could have.
I have a few issues with this:) And I give you a smily face so you know I am not fighting with you, I just have a few issues:
What I worry about with the "pro-vb's" (and personally I don't understand why there has to be pro-vb's, the way I see it if you cab birth vaginally you do, if you can't you don't!") What I worry is that by putting such an emphasis on vb's you risk making women feel like a failure if she cannot deliver this way. Many women feel like they fail their baby by not being able to birth naturally and it doesn't help when some people go on about vb's as though they are the holy grail and if you can't vb then you haven't birthed "properly." Someone else in this thread, not naming names, also made reference to having birthed the "proper way." Now, after 2 vb's that went horrible wrong I didn't give a hoot that my 3rd was "removed," instead of, "delivered," but a 1st time mum may well be devastated especially when stumbling across a thread like this. All the talk of being made powerless and having the right to birth taken away, it really makes some women feel like absolute failures. My best friend had severe pnd after her 1st bub- baby got stuck in pelvis after labouring for hours and ended up with c-section. Took her a long time to get over it. I feel very, very sorry for women who do end up with a ceaser against their will and I absolutely agree that a c-section should only be performed as a last resort, HOWEVER having one for whatever reason doesn't make you a failure. I would be careful saying things like feeling bad that your body " can't even do the most basic of what a female body is designed to do." I mean seriously, that is a bit offensive. My body is clearly a failure, then. If I was birthing 100 years ago I would have died in childbirth. Seriously. Luckily with modern medical intervention this isn't the case and I am thankful that if my body conks out I have a back up:D Anyway, I hope you don't take offense to this, I just wanted to make that point.
Sara
I have a few issues with this:) And I give you a smily face so you know I am not fighting with you, I just have a few issues:
What I worry about with the "pro-vb's" (and personally I don't understand why there has to be pro-vb's, the way I see it if you cab birth vaginally you do, if you can't you don't!") What I worry is that by putting such an emphasis on vb's you risk making women feel like a failure if she cannot deliver this way. Many women feel like they fail their baby by not being able to birth naturally and it doesn't help when some people go on about vb's as though they are the holy grail and if you can't vb then you haven't birthed "properly." Someone else in this thread, not naming names, also made reference to having birthed the "proper way." Now, after 2 vb's that went horrible wrong I didn't give a hoot that my 3rd was "removed," instead of, "delivered," but a 1st time mum may well be devastated especially when stumbling across a thread like this. All the talk of being made powerless and having the right to birth taken away, it really makes some women feel like absolute failures. My best friend had severe pnd after her 1st bub- baby got stuck in pelvis after labouring for hours and ended up with c-section. Took her a long time to get over it. I feel very, very sorry for women who do end up with a ceaser against their will and I absolutely agree that a c-section should only be performed as a last resort, HOWEVER having one for whatever reason doesn't make you a failure. I would be careful saying things like feeling bad that your body " can't even do the most basic of what a female body is designed to do." I mean seriously, that is a bit offensive. My body is clearly a failure, then. If I was birthing 100 years ago I would have died in childbirth. Seriously. Luckily with modern medical intervention this isn't the case and I am thankful that if my body conks out I have a back up:D Anyway, I hope you don't take offense to this, I just wanted to make that point.
Sara
:yelclap::iagree::yelclap:
I know a woman who had to watch her baby die slowly (between birth and 3 months old) as she was convinced women had been giving birth vaginally for hundreds of years and was also convinced that her Dr was just pushing for a c/s for no good reason. So she was going to have her VB no matter what. Her baby was stuck, deprived of oxygen for too long, because she point blank refused an emergency c/section.
As harsh as it is to say her determination to have the 'perfect' birth experience cost her child its life, she knows that and given her next child was born via elective c/s I think it was a hard lesson learned.
It is sad to me that women out there do risk their child's life thinking they know better than a trained professional.
OK yeah there are women who believed they could against medical advice and did it with minimal fuss, but there are also those who believed they could and ultimately their child payed the price.
Would you like to live knowing you cost your child their life?
I swore to myself I'd never again post in a C/S vs vag birth debate thread.. they just make me angry ....:o but
I just had to point out - have you ever considered that some women say they were told they 'had' to have a C/S really want to say that they WANTED a C/S but are too afraid of judgement, so they say their doc told them they have to have one??
I did :o
I was so sick and afraid of judgements thrown at me....not anymore though :)
my first child my OB said at about 35 weeks "you might have to consider a C/S" because of position, sizes etc - I jumped at it, because I was more than happy NOT to vb. My second I walked in and said "I had a C/S with my first, so I'll have another one" - I wanted a C/S!! .... do I think I could have vb'd? yeah, most probably.. could I have pushed my ob for me to vb? yeah...did I want to? no!... did I go along with what he said blindly? no way!
. I am ashamed to admit that when people asked me I have told them that my doc recommended them - not untrue, just a bending of the truth. To me it was far easier than to say, "because it was offered and I wanted it" and cop all the flack and get the 'too posh to push' thing
not anymore - I will be proud of my choice and tell anyone who asks :yes:
I just don't see vb as a magical thing, I have never felt the deep spiritual 'need' to have one ... if you do, cool - but I don't, and I don't think I'm the only one
Would you like to live knowing you cost your child their life?
No. Would you?
What is your point?
Vaginal births are the safest option for women who are able to have them. What is your point?
I just had to point out - have you ever considered that some women say they were told they 'had' to have a C/S really want to say that they WANTED a C/S but are too afraid of judgement, so they say their doc told them they have to have one??
I think that is a VERY good point and its why the issue gets clouded (and heated) at times.
For instance, someone says "my doctor said I had to have a caesarean" and all the people who are concerned about the rising surgery rates and who care that people are having them when they don't want them pipe up and say "oh no, you poor thing, bluddy doctors and their bluddy surgery etc etc etc" to warn other women who haven't had their babies yet and stop them from being told they need one if they don't.
They are not judging. They are trying to help others by talking about what goes on. But because you have blamed it on the doctor, then others have followed your lead.
My friend had placenta praevia and ended up with a caesarean. It had moved completely out of the way by the time she gave birth, but she still had one. I would have vb'd because that's what I would have wanted. She wanted a caesarean, so she had one. She doesn't say "the doctor said I had to", she says "I wanted one and they already said I could have one so I took it!".
trooouble
03-06-2008, 08:01
I was in a car accident when I was 16 and broke my back and neck. I have learned to deal with most of the pain but certain things are just unbearable. One of the worst is when I go to the bathroom and have to push out a number 2 :eek:. I had been told by doctor that I would never have any children due to my injuries and I had convinced myself that it didn't matter to me anymore. Now I am pregnant and without labour there is already a huge risk of the bub pushing on my spine and a 70% chance of becoming paralysed just from being pregnant. The choice does come down to me. :hair: I am terrified of not being able to walk again (which I didn't for 3 years after the accident) Since it is my lower back I can't even get any injections in my spine so I will have to be put to sleep. If the risk wasn't so high I would love to be able to deliver my bub the natural way. I also want to be able to run around and play with my baby. :smiliedance:
So thats why I choose to deliver via c-section.
Hope that helps you understand how some people sort of have a choice but choose
c-section
http://www.bubhub.com.au/tickers/image.php?image=MDEwMTAyMDEyMDA5MDE==.png (http://www.bubhub.com.au)
No. Would you?
What is your point?
Vaginal births are the safest option for women who are able to have them. What is your point?
I think this lady was obviously able to birth vaginally and developed COMPLICATIONS, Its not only c/s that may develope complications.
My friend had placenta praevia and ended up with a caesarean. It had moved completely out of the way by the time she gave birth, but she still had one. I would have vb'd because that's what I would have wanted. She wanted a caesarean, so she had one. She doesn't say "the doctor said I had to", she says "I wanted one and they already said I could have one so I took it!".
and that is her choice and right.
Why are people so against c/s????:confused:
I think you're missing shed's point completely. She didn't say there was anything wrong with that and in fact brought that example up as a c-section that was completely elective and completely neutral.
If you have/had a c-section because you want/ed to, then no one cares, really. People are concerned about the high rate of c-sections because people that don't want them/are uneducated on them are railroaded into a decision that they will later regret. It's those c-sections that people care about. It's those hearts people are trying to prevent from breaking.
PrincessT
03-06-2008, 10:08
I was in a car accident when I was 16 and broke my back and neck. I have learned to deal with most of the pain but certain things are just unbearable. One of the worst is when I go to the bathroom and have to push out a number 2 :eek:. I had been told by doctor that I would never have any children due to my injuries and I had convinced myself that it didn't matter to me anymore. Now I am pregnant and without labour there is already a huge risk of the bub pushing on my spine and a 70% chance of becoming paralysed just from being pregnant. The choice does come down to me. :hair: I am terrified of not being able to walk again (which I didn't for 3 years after the accident) Since it is my lower back I can't even get any injections in my spine so I will have to be put to sleep. If the risk wasn't so high I would love to be able to deliver my bub the natural way. I also want to be able to run around and play with my baby. :smiliedance:
So thats why I choose to deliver via c-section.
Hope that helps you understand how some people sort of have a choice but choose
c-section
http://www.bubhub.com.au/tickers/image.php?image=MDEwMTAyMDEyMDA5MDE==.png (http://www.bubhub.com.au)
You. Me. Same.
I was in a bus accident when I was 12. Same injuries and same risks with my spine.
I put my absolute trust in my spinal specialist who told me that the risk to me is so great - one specialist even suggested that being pregnant was a risk in itself and its true.
But with understanding and a great OB it was all possible! I had a wonderful c/s with my first and am in the middle of writing my c/s birth plan for my second bub in October.
Spinal injuries suck hey!
chicky2lala
03-06-2008, 10:18
So, people who are coming on here saying the doc told them to have the C section, rather than admit they chose it themselves should be able to tell the truth and not be judged.
It would also make it easier to see just how many women out there are REALLY being pushed into having c sections by their docs.
I do think the women on here who chose elective c sections get a lot of flack on here and that isnt right, no one should have to justify why they had their c section.
BUT I think the main point in this thread is that no one is saying our right to have a c section should be taken away. No one is really saying it's wrong.(well, some of them are maybe but we'l just ignore them) :) What they are saying is that the women who are advised to have c sections when there IS a chance they could deliver vaginally are being duped out of potentially having the vaginal birth they wanted. They aren't given all the information they need to be able to make an informed decision, whether they decide VB or CS.
Dabneygirl
03-06-2008, 10:50
and that is her choice and right.
Why are people so against c/s????:confused:
Ithink its pretty obvious that Shed was saying that she agrees it was her friends choice and her right and her friend was honest about it so everyone knows there is NO problem. no one has been lied to or told the need one when they dont.
People are against c/s because they are being done to people who don't WANT them!!!!
I do think the women on here who chose elective c sections get a lot of flack on here and that isnt right, no one should have to justify why they had their c section.
BUT I think the main point in this thread is that no one is saying our right to have a c section should be taken away. No one is really saying it's wrong.(well, some of them are maybe but we'l just ignore them) :) What they are saying is that the women who are advised to have c sections when there IS a chance they could deliver vaginally are being duped out of potentially having the vaginal birth they wanted. They aren't given all the information they need to be able to make an informed decision, whether they decide VB or CS.
No one is really asking them to justify it. Just say the reason, so we know what reasons are given in case we want to avoid one. If they don't want to say the don't have to. They have alreayd had the surgery so its not like anyone can say their reason isn't good enough so they can't have one after all :laughing:
I was one of those unfortunate people who had one. I was uneducated. I didn't know. I didnt want one but I was given bad advice. I am very angry about it now.
It was my choice and my right to have one, but I didn't want one!!
People are against c/s because they are being done to people who don't WANT them!!!!
Then why make the person feel bad who has had it when they didnt want it.
Isnt the op about why a person would ELECT a c/s,when they are able to v/b, not the ones who didnt elect it.
but I didn't want one!!
neither did i but unfortunately you cant change it or turn back time.
Dabneygirl
03-06-2008, 11:19
Then why make the person feel bad who has had it when they didnt want it.
Isnt the op about why a person would ELECT a c/s,when they are able to v/b, not the ones who didnt elect it.
neither did i but unfortunately you cant change it or turn back time.
1. some people find it hard to understand why people who choose to have surgery when others do all they can to avoid it. yes, its their right, but thats not a reason is it? no, they don't need a reason, but if they have one then its educational for other peopl.e to kow what it is so they can avoid that situation if they dont want one.'
its not about making people feel bad if they have had one. it not always about YOU. maybe they are trying to help other people.
3. no, you cant turn back time but you can try and help other people instead of just thinking about youself all the time. I have had a c/s and I dont feel judged because it wasnt my fault. I do want to help other people avoid it if I can. because it wasnt nice. it wasnt as great as you seem to make out. but mostly because I didnt want it and some other peole dont either.
c/s carry risks. that is a fact.the reason to have one should be overcome the risks. if there are no other medical reasons to have one then pepole are taking risks with their unborn baby, and other people are wondering why anyone would do that. yes yes its their right, we got that already :rolleyes: doesnt explain why though does it.
reAllytee
03-06-2008, 11:34
I think you're missing shed's point completely. She didn't say there was anything wrong with that and in fact brought that example up as a c-section that was completely elective and completely neutral.
If you have/had a c-section because you want/ed to, then no one cares, really. People are concerned about the high rate of c-sections because people that don't want them/are uneducated on them are railroaded into a decision that they will later regret. It's those c-sections that people care about. It's those hearts people are trying to prevent from breaking.
Exactly !
Shed nor any of us trying to make certain points arent doing it to make anyone feel bad ... I dont get how we can do that if you are happy with your choice anyways :confused:
We understand that in many circumstances like in regards to medical needs & psychological needs that they are needed ... We also get that many women want them because well they do !
Fine. If you want one fine. We. Dont. Care.
You are happy with yours .... But apparently you need to keep acting like we attack your position when we arent doing this at all :no:
We are trying to stand up for all those who are being bullied, are being told they 'need' them because their baby is too big or because they have small pelvises .... We want to stop this, we want to stop the unwanted c/s which happen so damn often.
We want to stop those who feel that their doctor does know best & doesnt question them until after the fact when they then go on to find out that heck i couldve had a VB.
We want to stop people believing they are safer because sadly this is whats becoming the thing to say when comparing a VB to a c/s which is completely untrue. They are not safer, they arent even close but people just dont seem to get that.
Ob's are offering them because its easier for them in regards to their busy schedules & its also so they avoid the " you made me have a VB & something went wrong ".
But also you know what & this is probably going to cop some flack but anyways.
Obs are all good & well & many medical interventions are all good & well but in reality most women are fooled into the idea that they are whats needed to survive pregnancy & childbirth.
In a normal, healthy pregnancy they arent needed.
If a woman is allowed to labour as to how it comes naturally, unhindered & safely she will come through it without major incidence.
I suffered some major trauma with Boof's birth & as i have said in previous posts it was assumed i would need a c/s for any other births from there on in. I was told i couldnt birth naturally obviously & would have major issues yadda yadda yadda.
This was a lie or maybe not really a lie but something that was said to cover their a$$es & also because of them not knowing any better. What usually happens in hospitals does all lead back to greater trauma & greater problems.
Yes i tore again with Squeak but being allowed to labour how i wanted & without any medical staff interferring etc things went so much more smoothly. Staying away from pain relief & allowing my body to do what does come naturally allowed me to birth without issue. Had i blindly been led down a medicalised birth path again i do not for one moment believe that i would have come away from this birth as easy as i did.
So yes there are problems with VB's no one denies that but a lot of those problems stem from the way we have allowed medical technology to take hold. Now dont get me wrong yes this technology has allowed many women to get VB's when they wouldnt have had them otherwise & yes this technology allows many women who get scared or the likes to get through it also. I do not deny this nor would anyone else again but the problem is this technology is often used when its uneccesary which means much more intervention is then used in the end.
Anyways im rambling now :o
Cordelia
03-06-2008, 11:58
Why oh why do women do this to each other?!?!?
I don't think it's mum's we should be blaming. It's our health system. It's obstetricians pushing for convenience and a system where we're strapped in a hospital bed, induced if things aren't progressing quickly enough and then end up with a C-section because the baby is distressed (good emotional leverage here).
Why do we keep blaming ourselves? We have been pushed into this.
me? I will most likely elect to have a caesar this time over the VBAC because I cant' handle the stress and anxiety over the process of ending up with a caesarean anyway.
I'm giving up. Do'nt blame me - blame the scare tactics of our health professionals. I cant' be bothered fighting. So long as I end up with my beautiful baby atthe end of it.
Don't fight each other. Mum's have enough guilt to contend with. Why can't we just support each other and acknowledge that everyone has different situations/beliefs/priorities?
this is going to cop a lot of flack but...
does anyone even think to look at the women who didn't educate themselves before having this unwanted C/S? do you always blindly follow what a person says to you? I'm sorry, but if someone truly wants something (ie, a VB) then isn't it up to them to research/seek second opinions/educate themselves etc?
and before you jump down my throat for not having empathy.... I am truly, truly sorry to the women out there who feel badly about the birth experience they had. No person should ever have to go through that.. :no:
but what about taking responsibility for yourself and what happens to your body?
true, most OB's don't point out all the risks of C/S .. but they don't point out the risks of VB's either. If an OB was to tell you every risk in pregnancy, every appointment would be 7 hours long!!!
it's up to us to educate ourselves sometimes before we consent to what happens to our bodies. You do have to sign a form giving your consent, it's not the a doc will knock you out and strap you down without your consent!
Firstly, most people are brought up in a way to trust doctors. I dare say there are many women that believe there is no need to research or get other opinions as they believe their ob knows best and will do as they suggest. In fact, most people I know in real life are like this.
Secondly, when you are in labour and vulnerable and are told that something horrible is going to happen if you don't have surgery / induction / other intervention, most women have a really hard time saying no or getting on the net to do some independent research.;)
One other thing, they should point out the risks of c/sections as they are so much higher than a v/birth. Your baby is 3 times more likely to die in the first month of their life! I'd want to be told that!
KatiesMum
03-06-2008, 12:32
Unfortunately Jo you are right .... many women do not research this stuff before they give birth - and often times they are the ones who are pushed into an unnecessary c/s
becuase they dont know .... and becuase they beleive what they are told by someone with a bias.
I had a c/s - bubs was breech. I did have the oppurtunity to do a lot of research beforehand, so felt that the choice to have a c/s was mine. This made a HUGE difference to me and how I viewed my birth. I am 100% happy with my decision, my obs and my birth experience.
BUT ......
Not everyone gets to do that - many just accept what the obs is telling them, then find out afterwards that they had other options, That there were things they could have done to get the birth experience they want, but werent told about these things by the people who SHOULD be helping and advising them (obs / midwives etc). Things such as fetal positioning, excercises, more active birth, birth positioning, massage etc. Things such as refusing an induction unless there is a reason not just because you are 'overdue'.
I have to say, some of the people entering into this discussion perhaps need to read back on previous threads a fair amount. Many of the 'pro-vb' camp do and have vocally supported women who choose to have a c/s. There are many threads of this nature. They do stand up for peoples rights to choose.....are just upset at the rising number of unwanted and unnecessary c/s.
This thread was simply asking why people would elect a c/s. The same way as Jaxcoop ask why someone would Homebirth? To get a greater understanding ....... not to make anyone who did chose this to feel bad about their birth.
If you wanted it, and got what you wanted - fantastic!!!!
And to add to tickle's list: thirdly, some women are forced into it by being threatened with a dead baby. The baby will die if you dont do this, do you really want that? Others again are forced into it by the number of seemingly innocuous other measures that are taken: induction leading to c-section.
As tickle said, we are raised to trust doctors, to believe what they tell us. And why wouldn't we? When I go to get fillings, I don't research all the latest dental research, the methods, the risks, the procedure, the aftermath: I trust my dentist to do his job. Women also trust their OBs to do their job in facilitating a complication free vaginal birth. Sometimes that happens (yay me ;) ). Other times, it doesn't.
Yes, women should certainly educate themselves about it all and that's why the people that have been so vocal about unnecessary c-sections on this thread and so many other s are so vocal - they are trying to reach those women that didn't think about it, that aren't thinking about it. They are helping women realise that they need to educate themselves.
SassyMummy
03-06-2008, 13:03
Sara - It's okay, I'm not offended... but I honestly did not mean to offend. I really should have clarified - having been one of those women who was landed with an elective caesarean which was far from what I wanted... I DO feel like a failure. That is how I feel - that my body failed me. Or at least, that's how I felt. Now, after the help of the pro-VBers, I've learnt that I quite likely COULD have birthed my baby via my vagina... it was just something that didn't happen because I was led to believe otherwise.
What I meant was that I do not want my daughter to end up feeling the same way that I have - that my body is such a failure that it cannot even push out a baby (it didn't even go into labour and I made it to 42 weeks... which made it that much worse... it's not like tried but failed, it's like I didn't even get the chance to try... I failed long before that).
So I mean, that's what I meant.
I think people forget that I post here as someone who HAS had a caesarean... I'm a pro-VBer FOR ME... if I was told the only way to ever have another baby was via caesarean (and I was sure that it was true, not just some lies spun to make me agree to surgery), then I would never have another baby.
I couldn't give a stuff what other women want to do with their bodies - I think they're a little crazy for CHOOSING to go through something that I found so traumatic... but I mean, more power to them if they enjoy it. I just don't want other women, like myself, who DID NOT want a caesarean, to end up with one.
What they are saying is that the women who are advised to have c sections when there IS a chance they could deliver vaginally are being duped out of potentially having the vaginal birth they wanted. They aren't given all the information they need to be able to make an informed decision, whether they decide VB or CS.
Exactly. :yes:
does anyone even think to look at the women who didn't educate themselves before having this unwanted C/S? do you always blindly follow what a person says to you? I'm sorry, but if someone truly wants something (ie, a VB) then isn't it up to them to research/seek second opinions/educate themselves etc?
and before you jump down my throat for not having empathy.... I am truly, truly sorry to the women out there who feel badly about the birth experience they had. No person should ever have to go through that.. :no:
but what about taking responsibility for yourself and what happens to your body?
true, most OB's don't point out all the risks of C/S .. but they don't point out the risks of VB's either. If an OB was to tell you every risk in pregnancy, every appointment would be 7 hours long!!!
it's up to us to educate ourselves sometimes before we consent to what happens to our bodies. You do have to sign a form giving your consent, it's not the a doc will knock you out and strap you down without your consent!
It's true, and honestly, that's where a lot of my guilt and trauma lies. The fact that I AGREED BECAUSE I WAS STUPID.
Why did I not research?
Well, why should I? I didn't know there was a reason to - I didn't know that doctors would be happy to cut you open before letting you do as nature intended... I figured it was more work for them if they'd have to cut me open... so why bother unless I absolutely needed it?
Any why research birth? I figured it would be like researching "how to breathe" or something... I mean, something that would just come naturally, and that I'd just do. I wasn't going to decide how I wanted to do it... it would be like deciding which position is best during sex without actually ever having had sex... you just don't know until you're there doing it.
So my approach was, "Take it as it comes - my body was designed to do this, so why would I need to read a book about it?"
Naive, yes, but you can see my rationale. There was NO reason, in my mind, why it should go bad. I'd just go into labour, do my thing, doctors would tell me if something was going wrong (and they'd not exaggerate for their own convenience), and that would be how it all worked. Drugs would be something I'd consider if I felt that the pain was too much... etc etc.
So yeah - women don't research and end with sh*t experiences. I'm living proof. But surely you can understand WHY we don't... I mean... why would you research something you believe your body would just know how to do..?
Researching never crossed my mind. Seriously.
chicky2lala
03-06-2008, 13:11
,
Researching never crossed my mind. Seriously.
Same. I would never and have never researched exactly what dentists put into my mouth before i have a filling.....Iv never looked up the actual ingredients that are in my anti's....Iv never questioned the doctor that told me I had to have my tonsils out and researched whether he was right, simply because they are meant to have our best interests at heart, we are supposed to be able to trust them and their decisions. It is their job :yes: I know this is diff to having your uterus cut open, but we are brought up to trust these people....doctors/surgeons/Obs ect......some people just take these people's word as gospel and the thought doesnt cross their minds that these people might not be doing what is right for them.....so therefor dont even think to research.
MrsMiggins
03-06-2008, 15:20
I am stepping in here with mods hat on to remind everyone to keep this thread on track.
I have let it go, while it clung to the edge of veering toward the whole "choice" debate, but now most of the posts seem to be replying in that vein, I feel the need to step in.
There is certainly no problem with debating this discussion in an informative way, however I think this thread is not the place.
Please post all comments in direct relation to the OP from hereon in. Any off topic posts will be deleted.
Thanks all! :)
My SIL elected one because
A) her OB said she was small
B) because vaginal birth is traumatic for babys
C) VB makes babys heads go funny
D) So she wouldn't become incontinent
E) So that her vagina wouldn't stretch
She is very happy with her 2 CS.
mummynow
03-06-2008, 16:33
I had an elective c/section for my first and only birth so far. I researched it for months throughout my pregnancy. I discussed it with DH in great depth, I discussed it with my OB and a midwife in length too. No-one pushed me into anything. They were all willing to support me in whatever decision I made.
It was a tough decision that was not finally made til about a week before I did it. But in the end I was 100% happy with my decision and even to this day I have no regrets.
There was so much thought that went into it for me - none of which I expect anyone else to understand. But it definitely had nothing to do with vanity I can assure you. It was far deeper things than that.
I am currently working through deciding how to deliver this new bubs due later this year. I am tending towards another c/section at this stage - but that could change. However nothing anyone else says or opinions anyone has will make that decision for me as it's my body and my decision.
MyFourCubs
03-06-2008, 18:17
Sara - It's okay, I'm not offended... but I honestly did not mean to offend. .
Very relieved! Am very sorry that you did not get the birth you wanted, can imagine that would be awful. I didn't get the birth I wanted with my ds- I wanted a ceaserean (only because of 1st experience) and I was made to have a vb. The entire experience was so traumatic and went so WRONG, it took me a long time to get over. It seems really ironic reading this thread that people seem to have been forced into c-esections went I wasn't allowed to have one- and nearly died. That was in the public system. My private ob 3rd time roundwas more than happy to grab the scalpel:D I shouldn't joke but it was a relief. I'm all for whatever works and for me the c-section did.:)
Sara
At my first ob appt my DH asked for a caesarean - at my request. I was so sure this is the way I wanted to go. Then I went to antenatal classes and the midwives were so good (approachable, reassuring) that I started to think I might try for a vb. But the more I think about it, I'm starting to swing back to a cs. The hospital (private) I'm going to does not do epidurals for pain relief. Only gas and pethidine. This will be my first delivery. I have no idea how I'm going to handle it. I suspect I may not handle it very well. Tonight DH and I tried perineal massage for the first time - I cried pretty much the whole time. I think I might be better off with a cs. I am very confused. I think there's so many reasons (medical, psychological, emotional) why women elect to have cs - often it's more than one reason too. I guess in some ways I'm pro-cs, but that really is in relation to me. I don't think anyone should be forced or coerced into having a cs, or vb for that matter. It really is so individual.
MrsMiggins
04-06-2008, 13:30
I believe this thread has now run its course. The OP has had several responses as to why women would elect a caesarian, so I trust your question has been answered.
Thank you to all who have contributed positively to this thread.
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