Its happening all over again...

[QTB]

DS1 never gained his birth weight back... at 2wks old he was put on formula top ups... i burst into tears when the midwife said we would have to top him up... we ended up fully FF at 12wks, as my supply had disappeared... i was guttered, im 99% sure not being able to BF was what lead to PND...

Iv been trying so hard to establish a good supply this time, bubs been feeding as much as possible... im expressing if he sleeps longer than 3hrs... and i know i have heaps of milk cos im leaking like crazy, hes content after feeds, he falls asleep sucking and comes off and milk runs out of his mouth... and he has heaps of wet and dirty nappies...

anyway, harlan got weighed today for the first time since birth (10days) and hes 3800gms- he was born 3970gms - what am i doing wrong? why isnt he gaining weight? :(

i have 1 week to get him gaining weight - nxt monday he gets checked and if hes 3800g or less we are going to have to go down the stupid FF topups again... which i know will go the same way DS1s did :(

[Chunkydunks]

Doesn't sound like you're doing anything wrong:hugs::hugs:

I don't know what its like for bub not to gain back birth weight cos Kynan never lost weight to start off with. He just gained right from the word go. But I do know what its like when you find out your supply has dropped. At 3 months Kynan was losing weight rapidly and I was adviced to give him top ups. In the end he was so unhappy with my supply that he went formula full time.

I honestly don't know what to say because it really sounds like he's feeding heaps and should be gaining weight. Isn't there some way of testing the nutrition of the milk? Not saying thats the problem but maybe ist another avenue to explore.

Good luck with it and I hope he starts gaining weight soon :hugs::hugs:

[V8]

Alarm bells are ringing for me here sweetie, i had similar issues with Josh and him gaining weight. I realised afterwards that there was no reason to give him formula, i was pretty much beaten down till i relented and gave him top ups at 4 months. You know what, he still didn't gain weight, but he was as healthy as!!

To me, you sound like everything is going beautifully, he's having wet/pooey nappies, you have plenty of milk, he's feeding well. Don't introduce formula because of his weight, i believe if you think he is healthy and not dehydrated, then weight is just a side issue, it really annoys me that they put so much pressure on you for the baby to 'fatten up' it's just ridiculous they do that. Please please, listen to yourself and your baby, tell the MCHN or whoever told you to make him put on weight to bugger off!! You know once you introduce a bottle there is no going back and then your supply will diminish and you'll be back at square one like with Brayds and having to fully FF him. You are doing wonderful Mel, you really really are. :hugs:

[sueliz]

Alarm bells are ringing for me here sweetie, i had similar issues with Josh and him gaining weight. I realised afterwards that there was no reason to give him formula, i was pretty much beaten down till i relented and gave him top ups at 4 months. You know what, he still didn't gain weight, but he was as healthy as!!

To me, you sound like everything is going beautifully, he's having wet/pooey nappies, you have plenty of milk, he's feeding well. Don't introduce formula because of his weight, i believe if you think he is healthy and not dehydrated, then weight is just a side issue, it really annoys me that they put so much pressure on you for the baby to 'fatten up' it's just ridiculous they do that. Please please, listen to yourself and your baby, tell the MCHN or whoever told you to make him put on weight to bugger off!! You know once you introduce a bottle there is no going back and then your supply will diminish and you'll be back at square one like with Brayds and having to fully FF him. You are doing wonderful Mel, you really really are. :hugs:

Sorry to hijack this thread but Vee I don't think you know how much I needed to read this right now. My DS2 is 5 mths and not putting on a lot of weight. He is reaching all his milestones and have lots of wet nappies and at least one pooey nappy a day and is ow sleeping throgh most nights, but he just isn;t putting weight on - and he was born a big bubs so I was really starting to get concerned. Have gone out and bought bottles and some sachets of formula just in case but something is stopping me for some reason from introducing it just yet - however I am still concerned about the weight thing. This has made me relax a little and see how I go. So thank you!!

[xkwzit]

You might want to consider swapping paediatricians, I have the name of a very pro BF paed (Wesley Hospital based) who was happy with DD1's weight gains when they were only 90 grams/week (at 6 - 8 weeks of age). 10 days isn't a very long time either, I think you can take a week or two to get second opinions etc.

I would also see an LC, she will be able to watch you feed and see if there is any physical problem with the feeding and suggest other tricks and tips (it is not as simple as just breast + baby, there are many different variations on that theme).

Please don't base your decisions on what a CHN says, my personal experiences of them have been confusing and demoralising. Confusing because they always said the opposite of what my Paed and LC would say, demoralising because they sucked my maternal power from me like psychic vampires.

Second opinion is required.

[cheezelkat]

what V8 Said!

Most babies don't regain birth weight until 14 days anyway.

Liam only gained max 125g a week...even now he is quite slim but happy and healthy... I would find a new CHN!

[Areca]

Hang on a second...I'm confused. It's normal for babies to lose up to 10% of their body weight in the first few days which means on day 4 he was able to weigh 3573gms so he's almost 300gms above that at day 10. So what if he hasn't gained his birth weight back yet, he is still doing well because he is above that 10%. It sounds like you have plenty of milk for him, and from your post the other day regarding how many wet and dirty nappies he has had he is getting plenty to eat.
I don't know who you are seeing that is giving you this information on his weight (CHN or GP) but please, please, please talk to the ABA. I can't see a single reason as to why he would need formula top ups. He is not dehydrated, he is feeding well, he is content and satisfied after a feed.
A friend of mine FF her DD from day one (no bm at all) and it took her 3 weeks to start gaining weight.

You said he got weighed for the first time today since he was born. Who's to say he isn't gaining weight? Like I said before, he could lose up to 10% of his birthweight. He hasn't! Or he did and he is gaining weight again. Please don't be guilted in to formula top ups when everything is going so well! Ring the ABA, arm yourself with info and take all that info with you on Monday and use it if you need to! You are doing a wonderful job!

[Areca]

I also just wanted to add for sueliz - DD1 was born 4.1kg at birth. At 3 months old she weighed 6.4kg. At 12 months old she weighed in at 8kg exactly. I bf her for 14 months. She was happy, healthy, and had plenty of wet and pooey nappies. She has just now tripled her birth weight and she is 2 1/2 at the end of the month and hasn't been bf since she was 14 months old. Thankfully my GP was supportive of bf'ing and the word formula was never mentioned until I went to see a paed when she was 11 months old. She insisted that I put DD1 on formula and I walked out and never saw her again. I went to a different paed, one who was supportive of bf'ing and never looked back! I chose to wean her at 14 months.

[stellarella]

OK firstly, stop seeing your CHN and no you don't have X number of days to get him back to his birth weight, he is your son and you will decide when and if he is put on formula FFS...where do these CHNs get off? They know nothing!!!

OK, now some of these :hugs: :kiss:

All children are different, all children gain weight differently......the charts mean nothing at all, we are quite frankly better off without them and unfortunately I think most of us are better off without CHNs.

You say you have lots of milk? Is Harlan happy most of the time, is he weeing/pooing, are his skin and eyes bright? I am guessing yes!!

You sons both gain weight slowly....in 6 months time he could be piling on kgs...just as my son gained like an elephant for the first 6 months and has since gained a measly 2 kgs (2kgs between 6 months and 22 months!!)

Please don't let this shake you...try forgetting the scales for a while and just enjoy him, enjoy BFing...monitor his output and relax :kiss:

[neostudded]

I agree with V8 and double ace!

Good luck, sounds to me like there is no problems.:hugs:

[Hollywood]

My DS was the same, he went below his birth weight at 2 weeks. He was 4.375 at birth (so big to start with, and was 2 weeks late). At 3 weeks he was finally back above his birth weight again.

We were advised by our MCHN to give top ups with expressed milk, and unfortunately she gave me sachets of formula to give in case I wasn't able to express. I say unfortunately because I instinctly knew that any formula would threaten my own supply and I was determined to build it up on my own without formula.

Thankfully by about 8 weeks I had no need for the formula anymore, and we still have a great BFing relationship at 15 months.

I realise that we're all different, but I thought I would tell you my story so that you can see that it's not the end of the world when they go below birth weight at the start. They had food on tap in the womb, so it's only natural that they need a bit of time to adjust to feeding at intervals IMO.

If you can, really try to BF as much as possible (one side perhaps for 2 or 3 hour blocks if bub needs feeds often), and hopefully you can do away with the formula. It doesn't have to end, hang in there!

[QTB]

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!

thank you all so much! your all right! i think ill take him and get him weighed on sunday at the chemist - then if he hasnt gained i might skip the appointment on monday and get another opinion...

im waiting for a lady from ABA to ring me at the moment...

thanks again! its just the reasurrance i needed! :yes:

sueliz - im glad my thread helped you too :D

[V8]

Sueliz - I am glad that it gave you some hope, my single biggest regret is introducing formula to DS at 4 months, i was lucky that it didn't completly end our BF relationship, but i knew then that once it's introduced, you can't go back, so DS was having comp feeds from 4 months.

My personal experience was i introduced one bottle due to not much weight gain, he still didn't gain any extra weight on the bottle, and he was perfectly fine before. As i said, the biggest indicator is if your baby is dehydrated, babies grow how they want, i don't think scales is a very good indicator, think about how much our weights fluctuate.

Also i had a big baby too 9pd1, and he isn't massive now at all at 2.5 he's probably about 13kgs. Which is completely healthy! :thumbsup: This time i am going to just feed feed feed, and listen to my baby, not going to weigh him or get him measured, it's all pretty pointless.

[KatiesMum]

Hi :wave:

I had some other issues with BF, so didnt actually continue for very long.....but for me - even while I was bf'ing, DD obviously was not getting enough and was screaming for more all the time so I did introduce top-ups. I just didnt have enough milk to satisfy her right from the start.

My point here is - it is often quite obvious if bubs is still hungry/not getting enough. As people have mentioned, wet nappies, bright eyes, settled behaviour etc (and most important of all - Mums instinct) are much more reliable indicators of how bubs is doing and whether or not top ups should be introduced. Weight gain (especially at 10 days old) is not really much of an indicator as all bubs are very very different, and in circumstances where you think that everything is fine - it probably is!!!!!

CHN's are quite often totally wrong about a lot of things. Calling the ABA, a LC or pead is a great step in the right direction.

Many Many :hugs:

[sueliz]

I also just wanted to add for sueliz - DD1 was born 4.1kg at birth. At 3 months old she weighed 6.4kg. At 12 months old she weighed in at 8kg exactly. I bf her for 14 months. She was happy, healthy, and had plenty of wet and pooey nappies. She has just now tripled her birth weight and she is 2 1/2 at the end of the month and hasn't been bf since she was 14 months old. Thankfully my GP was supportive of bf'ing and the word formula was never mentioned until I went to see a paed when she was 11 months old. She insisted that I put DD1 on formula and I walked out and never saw her again. I went to a different paed, one who was supportive of bf'ing and never looked back! I chose to wean her at 14 months.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! This thread has made me feel so much better that I could almost cry with relief!!
Thanks for starting it QTB - and allowing me to hijak! :)

[reAllytee]

Yep unless dehydrating, losing weight & not being the normal baby there is nothing to worry about !

All i was advised was that staying steady or gaining even 50gms here & there was fine because b/f babies are notorious for not gaining for weeks then having a gain !

We only had issues because of Squeaks intolerances !

You will certainly know when something isnt right !

You are doing great :hugs:

[MilkOnTap]

DS1 never gained his birth weight back... at 2wks old he was put on formula top ups... i burst into tears when the midwife said we would have to top him up... we ended up fully FF at 12wks, as my supply had disappeared... i was guttered, im 99% sure not being able to BF was what lead to PND...

Iv been trying so hard to establish a good supply this time, bubs been feeding as much as possible... im expressing if he sleeps longer than 3hrs... and i know i have heaps of milk cos im leaking like crazy, hes content after feeds, he falls asleep sucking and comes off and milk runs out of his mouth... and he has heaps of wet and dirty nappies...

anyway, harlan got weighed today for the first time since birth (10days) and hes 3800gms- he was born 3970gms - what am i doing wrong? why isnt he gaining weight? :(

i have 1 week to get him gaining weight - nxt monday he gets checked and if hes 3800g or less we are going to have to go down the stupid FF topups again... which i know will go the same way DS1s did :(

Jedd didn't get back to his birth weight til 12 weeks!!! Will come back later but the advice everyone has given awesome advice already :)

[QTB]

and in circumstances where you think that everything is fine - it probably is!!!!!

your so right!! :yes: unfortuntly "health professionals" dont look at the full picture... they look at the fact bub isnt gaining weight, they dont look at the fact hes happy and content, weeing and pooing well, and the fact that I as his mother dont feel there is anything wrong!



Thanks for starting it QTB - and allowing me to hijak! :)

No worries! im glad we both got good results from it :thumbsup:



All i was advised was that staying steady or gaining even 50gms here & there was fine because b/f babies are notorious for not gaining for weeks then having a gain !

We only had issues because of Squeaks intolerances !


wow! iv never heard that! thats fantastic to know! i was talking to my mum about this issue today (she breastfed 4 kids including twins all for at least a year!) and she said that i gained a pound a week, yet my brother only gained 1-2oz a week, yet we were both healthy... i thought that was awesome too!


Jedd didn't get back to his birth weight til 12 weeks!!! Will come back later but the advice everyone has given awesome advice already :)

WOW!! 12 weeks! im looking forward to hearing your story! i think i would be realllly panicing by 12weeks!

[reAllytee]

wow! iv never heard that! thats fantastic to know! i was talking to my mum about this issue today (she breastfed 4 kids including twins all for at least a year!) and she said that i gained a pound a week, yet my brother only gained 1-2oz a week, yet we were both healthy... i thought that was awesome too!


My aunty b/f 5 boys & they were all different !

Some gained weight no issue whereas the others were notorious for no weight gain for 6 or so weeks then BAM a huge 500gm increase ! Thats why its not really worthwhile even weighing them weekly or even fortnightly unless there is an issue !

Birth weights in babies arent necessarily their 'true' weight if that makes sense. As in the idea is that they store up as much fat as possible before they arrive so the idea is that they can survive on virtually nothing ! Remember there are newborns found after earthquakes still alive & 'well' sometimes up to 2wks after !!!! They have 'fat' to lose so to speak so thats why they are meant to lose some & then you will find that they often take awhile before adding anything back on. Obviously there are those that are outside this box lol but remember babies are only born with a tiny tiny stomach. Size of a marble to be more precise so they really only do get whats needed !

[justmum]

Apologies I don't now if this has been covered but I wanted to add that those silly weight charts (with the percentiles) are for formula fed babies.

Please disregard them for BF babies, they are misleading and upsetting.

QTB sounds like you are doing an amazing job :goodvibes: have faith in your boobsicles to feed your bubba!

[Sheer Bliss]

Sounds like everyone lese has already done a good job at convincing you that you are doing a great job & not to let yourself get bullied into formula top-ups!

As for the weight gain - it's all soooo different!

DD was 4weeks premmie, 2.6kg, and at 6months 5.7kg, DS was also 4weeks premmie & 2.7kg, at discharge from hospital he was fully breastfed and weighed 2.1kg. At 3months he was 6.4kg (same as DA's bubba at 12months) then at 11months he hit the 10kg mark and has only made it to 10.5 now at almost 13months. BOTH my bubbas were exclusively breastfed, until 5-6months and the weigh gain was drastically different, so the same food, just different results on different babies. DS took 2 weeks to reach his birth weight again, and nobody even mentioned formula in that time.

[GraceUnhearing]

OK firstly, stop seeing your CHN and no you don't have X number of days to get him back to his birth weight, he is your son and you will decide when and if he is put on formula FFS...where do these CHNs get off? They know nothing!!!



:iagree:

stop getting him weighed! if he is having wet and dirty napies and you said he is content there is no need for weigh ins all the time

sounds to me like you are doing a GREAT job sweet!

DS was born 4.155kgs, he now at 16months has just hit 10kgs
apparently he is underweight

he is fine! hes alert, very active and reaching milestones before he should!

there is no need for topups.

[reAllytee]

Apologies I don't now if this has been covered but I wanted to add that those silly weight charts (with the percentiles) are for formula fed babies.

Please disregard them for BF babies, they are misleading and upsetting.

QTB sounds like you are doing an amazing job :goodvibes: have faith in your boobsicles to feed your bubba!

Here in NSW the blue baby books the mums have, have actually been updated to the new b/f baby charts .... Its just a shame the CHN ones havent so while Squeak has dropped down on my charts & all that jazz they have freaked me out at times saying he was off the charts for me to come home & realise he isnt ! ... Which reminds me i need to go talk to them about that !

[MilkOnTap]

WOW!! 12 weeks! im looking forward to hearing your story! i think i would be realllly panicing by 12weeks!

Oh yes there was plenty of panic attacks and plenty of threads just like this one :hugs:

I had gestational diabetes (which was only diagnosed 2 weeks before he arrived!) and so that stacked on a lot more weight than what he would have genetically been. Jedd was born 4.3kg - but when we left hospital he was 3.8kg. I reckon he kept on losing more weight (fluid) when we got home because at his first weigh in when he was 2 weeks old he was only 3.7kg. It took us 12 weeks to get back to his birth weight!

He did have other issues going on which no 'health professional' would diagnose or confirm for me. He had silent reflux and even though my gut told me that something wasn't right - he was my first baby and I had no idea what was right or wrong.

Unfortunately I listened to the CHN's advice and at 6 weeks I began giving him top-up bottles at night (which he was only just weaned off at 7mths). But you know what - his weight gain didnt' change at all! He still gained only small amounts here and there and his sleeping got worse!!!

Once I got him on Losec at 4mths for his silent reflux he was a different baby. Then when I got him off the formula at 7mths (with the help of karitane) he slept better too!

I had SO many CHN's and apparant health professionals telling me that my son was STARVING because he drank the whole bottle at night. Thing is - he only drank it cause it was easy peasy to do - he didnt have to work for it like he did with the breast. He is also a comfort-sucker; so he was probably just comfort sucking on the bottle and unknowingly filling his poor lil belly :(

We have our instincts for a reason - and yours are definitely telling you that your lil one is fine, healthy, happy and rosey. CHN's do tend to make us doubt ourselves - and I'm positive that this is why there are so many formula feeders out there.

Even midwives in chemists dont know enough about breastfeeding though! A friend of mine is a dietician and is currently studying maternal health and infant health. She did a mystery shop on 86 pharmacies on the Gold coast.
Scenario --> mother is having probs with her breastfed baby's weight gain and is wondering what formula to put baby on.
Result --> Only 4 of the 86 midwives asked the mother if she was aware of the risks of formula and offered breastfeeding support instead of advocating the use of formula... :shame:

Anyway - I'm off track lol. My point is - take everything the CHN's say with a grain of salt and do what you know is best for your baby :hugs:

Your doing great! :flowerz:

[~Emmylou~]

mel it's normal for newborns to take a full two weeks to regain their birthweight.

It sounds like Harlan is doing very well, and your supply is good...look at him, is he alert when he's awake? Is his mouth moist? Aside from all the other positive signs you have that he's getting enough.

You're doing fine! You just need to stop listening to everyone else that doesn't know your baby and listen to your gut ;)

Hang in there!!

[justmum]

Here in NSW the blue baby books the mums have, have actually been updated to the new b/f baby charts .... Its just a shame the CHN ones havent so while Squeak has dropped down on my charts & all that jazz they have freaked me out at times saying he was off the charts for me to come home & realise he isnt ! ... Which reminds me i need to go talk to them about that !

That's great Ally. WA hasn't done this yet to my knowledge :(

[punkbaby]

As everyone else has said you sound like you are doing a wonderful job, indie is 6 months and only just doubled her birth weight, even my CHN said to me Oh shes not putting alot of weight on but looking at her she is happy, shes healthy and to me she is doing wonderfully.
I think that rather than scaring mums into thinking that they dont have enough supply etc or their baby needs formula top ups etc ALL professionals should be looking at the bigger picture which each and every individual child, not the charts!

You know your baby better than anyone if his happy his wet and his doing well in general then thats enough to know that your doing an amazing job!!

[Lillynix]

I haven't read the other replies yet, but wanted to come in with my experience with DS (DD was always a fatty bum).

DS was born at 4.16kgs, so a big baby (9lb3oz) but it wasn't to stay that way. For the first 2weeks of his life he was losing weight. It wasn't until the 3rd week that he had actually gained anything. I was determined to exclusively breastfeed as DD was on formula from 3.5weeks after I lost my supply completely, i'm sure due to her traumatic entry into this world.

DS is now 3months old and only weighs 4.49kg and it took him the first 6weeks to get back to his birth weight. He averages anywhere from 50-70grams a week weight gain compared to the 100-150grams the CHN would like to see.

I was given flack from the time DS was 2weeks old from the CHN and from my in-laws to comp feed with formula, to top up with formula all because he had lost more than 10% of his birth weight.

Even when he started gaining weight again I was still being pressured to give formula to try and "fatten him up" I had to battle with not only the CHN and in-laws, I had to battle with myself, that was the hardest.

I knew deep down that DS was healthy, alert, bright eyes, content, lots of wet/dirty nappies etc etc etc but STILL I kept doubting my bodies abilities, doubting my supply, doubting my milk.

And here I sit, 3months on, still excusively breastfeeding, I have given the CHN the flick completely, and when DS had his immunisations 2weeks ago, the GP wasn't concerned about his weight.

If you look at the charts (the WHO ones) he is sitting just on the 3rd percentile for weight, but 50th for length, but hey, 3rd percentile is still normal, otherwise it wouldn't be there.

I am STILL battling my in-laws over this issue as I was told just 2weeks ago that DS looked sickly and unwell, like the malnourished kids in third world countries (yeah, thanks for that MIL, you cow!!!) but I know what is best for my little man, no one else.

If YOU think your little one is healthy, that's ALL that matters. You need to be strong, STOP having your DS weighed, it's as simple as that. Ask yourself this...

Would you be concerned about him if you didn't know what the scales were saying?

Numbers mean nothing, weight is the LAST indicator of a healthy baby, you're his mother, you know him best. Stick to your guns and refuse the formula, he doesn't need it!!! Your body works and you have great milk :D

Some babies are just meant to be skinny. There's nothing wrong with that, no one ever said that for a baby to be healthy, it must be fat. We are all different.

Besides, what is formula going to accomplish? He wont eat what he doesn't want, so formula wont suddenly make him feed more, in most cases breastmilk has a higher calorie content that formula and formula is far worse in terms of quality, giving any amount of formula will effect your supply and then you have the possibility of nipple confusion and breast refusal...why would you do it?

[QTB]

thank you all so much for sharing your stories with me! im no longer worried about his weight hes showing all the signs of getting heaps of milk, hes happy, so im happy! :D

[Hollywood]

Yay for you :yelclap:, glad to hear it's all going well and that you're not worrying. Keep up the great work! :thumbsup:

[stellarella]

thank you all so much for sharing your stories with me! im no longer worried about his weight hes showing all the signs of getting heaps of milk, hes happy, so im happy! :D

That's so wonderful! In have been wondering how you were getting along.
It's a great confidence builder when you can let go of scales and charts and just be a mummy and listen to those motherly instincts we all have (if we listen to them ;))

Please continue to have faith in your abilities and trust your baby and your body, if you ever need another "pick me up" I'm all ears :hugs: