So tired of it all... [Archive] - Bub Hub Pregnancy & Parenting Forum

OJandMe

01-05-2008, 10:02

Dropped them off at kindy this morning.

Even the girls there are getting over their 'new' behviour quickly... *sigh*

I'm so upset. I have no idea why my kids are so naughty.

We set boundries, we have rules, we interact with them ALL THE TIME, we speak positively to them, we praise and encourage them, we encourage their talents and interests.

And yet, they are still soooo defiant and rude.

I don't even know how they come up with some of the things they do... it certainly hasn't been modelled by us.

I don't know why they scream at us all the time, DH and I never yell at each other. We've always had excellent conflict resolution... talk and discuss, come to a compromise or understanding...

I don't know.

I need help.

I'm not handling this.

KatiesMum

01-05-2008, 10:15

Many :hugs:

Grizabella

01-05-2008, 12:55

Sorry to hear theyre being so awful Hun. Brion was the same til I changed his diet, but I am sure that that's an avenue already travelled...

Just hope you get 5 minutes of peace at least today. Maybe shut them in their room for 5 and have a shower with bubs?:hugs:

sunnyflower

01-05-2008, 13:01

OJandMe

01-05-2008, 14:42

Hey there,

Have you ever tried reading the book 123 Magic?

Your sons sound a lot like my son,i set rules etc but he was just carrying on like a spoilt brat,whinging,wining,shouting at me ,being disrespectful and basically i just hated him.

This book was recommended to me on this site and it really worked.He is still not perfect but i feel a lot more in control of his behaviour,

I hope u feel better soon.:hugs:

Yep! Read it, tried it.

They just WILL NOT stay in their room. I say '5 mins in your room" and they say "NO! I WILL NOT"

So I pick them up, put them in there and say "you can come out in 5 mins, or when you're happy."

And they just come out. All the time! They will not stay in there! It just ends up with me having tp pick them up and keep taking them back...

and honestly, I just can't do it. Especially if I've got both of them in time out... they play off each other.. and I can't spend 30 minutes carrying them back one at a time.

And what do I do with the baby while I'm doing that. :hair:

I don't know what to do. :crying:

I loved the ideas in 1, 2, 3.. .. but my kids just WILL NOT comply, with ANYTHING! :crying::crying:

Areca

01-05-2008, 14:51

Yep! Read it, tried it.

They just WILL NOT stay in their room. I say '5 mins in your room" and they say "NO! I WILL NOT"

So I pick them up, put them in there and say "you can come out in 5 mins, or when you're happy."

And they just come out. All the time! They will not stay in there! It just ends up with me having tp pick them up and keep taking them back...

and honestly, I just can't do it. Especially if I've got both of them in time out... they play off each other.. and I can't spend 30 minutes carrying them back one at a time.

And what do I do with the baby while I'm doing that. :hair:

I don't know what to do. :crying:

I loved the ideas in 1, 2, 3.. .. but my kids just WILL NOT comply, with ANYTHING! :crying::crying:

Ok, some people might be horrified by the idea but can you put a lock on the outside of their door? Up high so they can't lock you in there but at least that way they won't be able to get out and will have to do their time out. You could even put a lock on the outside of a couple of rooms so they can have their time outs seperately and not play off each other.

I actually rang first step parenting (a government based program designed to help parents with gentle disciplinary techniques....I had to get a referral) a few weeks back cause DD1's behaviour was soooooo disgusting and I just did not know what to do. Anyway on the time out section of the handout they gave to me it actually says that if you're child won't stay in their room during a time out to lock them in so they can't get out.

01-05-2008, 14:57

I know this sounds awful, but it works for us so we will keep doing it if we have to. For time out we put DD in her room, tell her how long then shut the door and put a door stop under it. She can't open it then. She can cry and scream and kick as much as she wants, but she's in her room where she can't hurt herself or anyone else and it gives her a chance to calm down. After the allocated time, if she's still crying and carrying on then we ask her if she'd like to come out. If she says yes, the we say, ok you need to calm down, then you can come out. Upon opening the door we ask if she's ready to say sorry. If so, she comes out, if not then she's told she can stay in there a few more minutes until she is ready to say sorry then the door is shut.

As I said, sounds awful, but works really well with DD. We had a shocker of a day yesterday but have stuck by this this morning and had a very happy little girl afterwards. She knew the boundaries and stuck to them.

Best of luck Gret, I can only hope that you find something that works for you and your family.:hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:

OJandMe

01-05-2008, 15:03

I admit, I actually have been locking them in the loungeroom...

For some weird reason it's the only room in the house that locks. :confused: The LOUNGEROOM.. locks... bizarre.

BUT... because all their toys are in there, they don't even see it as discipline thing.

And they'll happily play in there for 30 mins.

(last weekend I told them they had to stay there for 30 mins, because I asked them not to keep playing with the vacuum cleaner... and they kept going back to it... so I told them that everytime they touched it, they'd get another 5 mins.... and yeah.. well.)

But they didn't even care... just said "okay.. I'll read books. (to each other) let's make a cubby house!"

I'm seriously considering taking all toys away until they learn to listen.

I don't want to smack. I don't like it. It's so 'bullying' "do as I say or I'll hit you." :no:

But I have been...... :(

They were really picking up behaviour wise before they went to their Grandmother's for a week..

And now they are just little ferals.

I'm so ashamed/embarrassed of them.

I can control a class of 30, but I can't control two 3 yr olds.

naiwen

01-05-2008, 15:03

Have you tried my patented ball of string tactic (or knitting wool will do), when they are naughty tie a peice of string to their leg at one end and their bed at the other, everytime they get naughtier shorten the peice of string. If they are bad enough they will end up in bed.

OJandMe

01-05-2008, 15:14

ooooh... novel idea.

I did have a system which was working like this.

first offence: "We don't ........" or "that's not okay with me. We speak nicely to each other"

2nd offence: time out in chair for 3 mins... if they don't comply....

time out in bedroom for 5 mins.... if they don't comply...

miss out on a fun activity we have planned... if they STILL don't comply...

smack.

But now none of it's working. :banghead:...

I love them.... but I just DREAD being around them.

We're living in an emotionally abusive situation, and our 3yr olds are our jailers.

I want the order in our house to be back where it should.

WE are the parents, WE should say what goes.

And I'm NOT really 'strict' I let a lot of things go. If they are playing a game and it's 'messy' they can play it. I don't care if they pull all the blankets out of the cupboard to make a mountain... as long as when I say.. "okay guys let's pack this up" they say "okay" and HELP me... Instead of saying "NO I WON'T.*spit at me*.. YOU DO IT!" and then running away....

There are only a few 'rules' in my house:

1: Speak nicely to each other
2: keep your hands to yourself
3: Look after your things
4: Put things back where they belong
5: Respect each other's space and peace

*sigh*

Is 3 old enough to understand a 'behaviour chart' type of thing??

naiwen

01-05-2008, 15:17

You could definatly try a reward chart, if they behave well they get a star, when they get 5 or 10 stars they get a treat type thing.

But when you desperate a ball of string works too! (my parents did this with me and I remember being very bored on my bed and deciding to be good so I could play)

01-05-2008, 15:19

I'd think 3 is old enough for a behaviour chart. I know it's not quite the same, but DD(2yo) has a chart for TT and completely grasps the concept of it.

I agree with taking toys away. I had to do this to get DD into bed when DH was away for a week. First went the night light, then her teddy, then her pillow, then her picture of our puppy, then her glass mickey mouse. I'm so glad she learnt after that as I was quickly running out of options!

grass is always greener

01-05-2008, 15:30

:hugs: gret.
I have had some trouble with DS lately. Not to the point that you have reached, but i can see it getting there.

Something popped into my head while reading this thread. Maybe you can ask them to get their favourite toys, say 5 each, and put them into a special toy box. Now everytime they are naughty they have to take one out and give it to youa nd you have to 'throw' it away (hide it). They dont get them back until they have been behaving themselves for 30 mins, or something like that.
Another idea is something that my mum did to us :o she got the broom and a garbage bag and swept up all our toys and 'gave them to charity' (hid them) we didnt get them back for weeks. You could make them earn them back with a reward chart system, when their good they get a star and when they have 7 they get a toy out of the bag.

:hugs: i really hope something works for you.

Qube

01-05-2008, 15:43

I don't probably have anything helpful to add, but I remember watching Dr Phil (yes, yes I know, I should be studying) and he said to lock kids in the toilet, they can't get out (assuming you can barricade), there are no toys and they can use the toilet if they need to. It would be BORING, and therefore hopefully effective. :hugs: to you mate, hope it gets easier soon

Areca

01-05-2008, 16:14

Gretel - We have the rule in our house that if I have to pick up DD1's toys they get put away. I put them on top of the fridge so she can see them but she isn't allowed to play with them for the rest of the day. If she gets cranky and starts pulling other toys out because she's mad I don't say a word but pick up each toy she pulls out and put them on the fridge too...she learns pretty quickly! DD1 couldn't care less about reward charts right now....she'd rather get her own way. It might work for your boys but it might not.
My cousin's little boy is almost 4 and I don't know what he did, but he was so naughty that his mum packed up every single toy and put them all in the garage. He has to earn them back one by one. Three weeks on and he has one toy. He tells everyone it's 'iridiculous' but I bet he is bored out of his brain and he is eventually going to give in cause his parent's sure aren't!!!

You need to find a place that's toy free for time outs. Strap one in a highchair and one in a stroller? Or the toilet is a great idea. Just get one of those locks for the toilet seat so they can't dump the toilet rolls down there!

I'd pack all their toys away (and anything they make in to a toy) and then if they want to play with something they have to ask for it, then if they don't pack it up, or they need a time out there isn't anything. Sounds like they have taken control and you need to get it back to get them to listen to you. If it takes extreme measures to do it (locks on doors/packing all toys away etc.) then so be it. At the end of the day (week, month, year...however long it takes) it's going to be a lesson they remember, instead of a quick smack that lasts all of 30 seconds before they can get back into mischief (I am not having a dig at you for smacking either just so you know).

:hugs: Sounds awful...I can't imagine how hard it is having Gabe and being pregnant as well. If it gets too bad talk to your paediatrician because there are programs out there to help parent's out when it comes to discipline.

OJandMe

01-05-2008, 21:01

LOL.... Dr Phil doesn't know my kids... :laughing:

They lock us OUT of the toilet... and then decide to make paper mache, flush everything, flood the bathroom with the hand basin... :dizzy:

I have thought about taking away all their toys... only prob is, I've confiscated so much aready that I don't have any space left in my garage. :no:

I was talking to the girls at kindy today when we picked them up (DH and I went down together so we could both talk to them) They said they haven't been playing up to the same extent as they are at home, but there has been a definite shift negatively in their behaviour since they came back from MIL's.

So we've decided on a strategy that we can bring back and forths, to keep it consistent.

We've formulated 6 household rules:

1. Listen to Mummy and Daddy
2. Talk nicely to each other
3. Keep your hands to yourself
4. Look after your things
5. Put things back where they belong
6. Respect each others space and peace

They will each have 2 jars.. A good jar and a naughty jar (but I'm not sure what to call them yet.... maybe a 'thumbsup' jar and a 'thumbsdown' jar, or smiley face, sad face.. I don't know)..

Anyway... they'll have 2 jars. When they are behaving they will get marbles added to the 'good' jar. When they are misbehaving they'll get marbles taken from the 'good' jar and put in the 'naughty' jar.

If at the end of the day they have more marbles in the 'good' jar, then they can have a sticker or something (I don't want to use lollies) and add a piece to a teddy bear puzzle on the wall. (3 piece puzzle)

So after 3 days they should have a full teddy bear... once they reach a full teddy bear they can choose a prize from the 'special' box.

Once they have 3 full teddies... we'll go on a fun outing as a family.

That way they can take the jars back and forwards to kindy... and we can all be consistent with it.

So from now on our house will work like this:

Follow the rules.

1st offence.. lose marbles

2nd offence... time out in room for 5 mins (I've nailed a hook into the outside of the door on the otherside, so I can loop a band around the handle and the hook to keep the door shut)

3rd offence... miss out on some fun activity we were going to do.

Hopefully they won't need more than that...

*sigh*

Anyway, I'm feeling positive about that. I feel really glad that the girls at kindy are so willing to be in on it too, that should make it easier.

Do you think it will work???

Oh.. and I've been to all those PPP seminars... nothing worked on my 2.

WorkingClassMum

01-05-2008, 21:14

Have you thought about divide and conquor?

I was chatting to sis#1's friend who has two sets of twins - 2Xboy and 2Xgirls. The girls are easy, but the boys where devils...

It'd be really hard to do, but can the kinder give them seperate kinder times and can you possibly give them different bedrooms etc?

I think (hmm and maybe you know) - they're feeding off each other - so play their game, and play them against each other and treat them as two seperate kids.

Different bath times, even different tea times or something.

I'd even go so far as to have two seperate reward systems - even slightly different

It's maybe worth a thought to incorporate in your battle plans?

lots of :hugs: anyhow, and I've taken back all thoughts that you'll have a girl like mine - you deserve an angel

reAllytee

01-05-2008, 21:29

When you have sorted out yours please by all means come sort mine one out.

Ive had it with him.

I dont want him anymore.

Im sick of being told to " try this it works " pfffft yeah right !!!

If i locked Boof in his room he would break down the door ... Seriously !

I held it closed one day because of how feral he was & it sent him into such a meltdown that he attacked the door & left holes in it ... So as you can see time out in a room is a joke for us to !

The only other place to lock him into that he couldnt break out of is the garage ... Ever ever so tempting :devil6:

I am just so so so over it.

Benji

01-05-2008, 21:39

Aww OJ... :( and allyoo :crying:

I can't say I know how you feel right now as I only have one two year old, but just wanted to give you some :hugs:

OJ - it's nothing you have done or taught them. There are two of them! They gang up on you. I feel defeated by my one boy sometimes :laughing: I can't imagine what you are going through.

I have absolutely no advice, but you have my support and I hope things get sorted soon (oh and maybe get your man to give you a break every now and again, it's hard enough being pregnant!) :hugs::hugs:

~Temet Nosce~

01-05-2008, 21:45

Have you tried giving them fish oil tablets for kids? I have heard that works wonders on behaviour..

2made3

01-05-2008, 22:09

I hear ya OJ

and sweetie - I am so with you ***sigh****

:iagree: Yup... me too :hugs:

OJandMe

01-05-2008, 22:16

Got the fish oil tablets on my list.:thumbsup:

Ally... :hugs: I've been locking them outside lately... only place they can't really destroy. Ollie went into total meltdown when we got home from kindy, kicking, coughing, frothing at the mouth, head spinning... because..... I undid his seatbelt. Sorry Ol. :o I think you and I need a holiday.

And don't worry.. I am sooooo over hearing "Oh this works!" I had a friend over today with her 3yr old who was trying to give me 'tips' (love her though.. she was trying. lol) And Carlo and I just stared at her.. and said "A.... DS is cheesecake compared to O and J." She just said... "Yeah, I know" *hugs*

Kayte- they DEFINITELY play off each other... big time. The seperate rooms, seperate kindy days is not an option :no: I've looked into it before.

Carlo and I have always made it a specific point to not treat them like 'twins'.. they are treated individually. But my twins are borderline 'independent/co-dependent' so differences in things like bedtimes would cause WWIII in my house. I can't even give one an apple with a sticker on it if the other one doesn't have an apple with a sticker on it. The one without the sticker feels like he's 'missing out'.:rolleyes:

I think it's important that we do sort out some way of spending time with them individually though.

reAllytee

01-05-2008, 23:45

Have you tried giving them fish oil tablets for kids? I have heard that works wonders on behaviour..

Ok yes this does help to a degree.

Look you know what i will admit changing his diet, adding fish oil & supplements as well as using certain parenting techniques do help.

Unfortunately that only works 80% of the time & seriously when you are in that 20% area all you want to do is scream !!!!!!!!

Dont get me wrong i am all for people offering advice & help in some form. Im not against it. Its just frustrating when they offer something that so hilarious because of it being so 'easy' that i get frustrated & then there is the fact i have read nearly every freaking book i can on toddlers & behaviour ... Ok not every thats over exaggerating a little but it feels like it !!!!!

I love Dr Phil & a lot of what he says rings true because its common sense but seriously when you have tried all those options & they have failed you feel like the failure because you are honestly wondering what the hell you have done wrong.

I am so damn sick & tired of seeing this perfect angel who can be so freaking amazing turn into a complete alien that froths at the mouth & totally looses it for no real reason. Im trying my damned hardest to cope & then to have perfect friggen strangers then try to tell me what i should be doing makes me want to choke them ( oh btw i mean strangers in shopping centres not on here lol ). One day its going to happen.

I know both my kids have issues that are way out of my hands but at the same time when you share genetic material you cant help but feel its something you have done wrong.

Ok soooo i have just written a diary entry in here & im wondering who the hell im talking to ... La di da ! Dont mind me will go back to playing with the fairies !

Gret - Seriously when are we moving somewhere tropical ????????

~Temet Nosce~

02-05-2008, 06:50

ok sorry.. well I was just making a suggestion..

Grizabella

02-05-2008, 15:23

Qube

02-05-2008, 15:45

reAllytee

02-05-2008, 15:49

ok sorry.. well I was just making a suggestion..

AS i said i wasnt having a go at you !!!

Sorry !!!!!

Its just frustrating at times tis all especially when you want a magic cure all ... Guess thats never gonna happen though lol !

OJandMe

02-05-2008, 22:14

Gretel - have you heard if "Twin Escalation Syndrome" ?? Here's a little bit on it (http://multiples.about.com/cs/familyissues/a/twinescalation.htm) - I am sure you can find out more though through more googling. Sounds a lot like what you are facing with the boys.

Heya.. thanks for that.

I'm actually doing my postgraduate dissertation on twins and the different types of relationships between them (and how that effects them within an eucational setting)..

So I know a 'fair' ;) bit about the different types of twin behaviours. :laughing:

Doesn't stop the fighting though... or the 'egging on'.

DH was saying today that maybe they have some kind of behaviour disorder...

But I said "nope, because they pick and choose their behaviour based on where they are and who they're with... that's selective, not impulsive"...

Sitting here scrubbing jars..... hope it works! :fingerscrossed:

OJandMe

02-05-2008, 22:23

Sorry Gretel, I wasn't trying to be patronizing on the Dr Phil thing, just when i heard it thought it was funny almost....
i guess what you really need is less advice (sorry) and more of these :hugs: Hope it gets better, really I do :)

:laughing: I didn't think you were!!! :laughing::laughing:

I'm not the 'easily offended' type.

I really appreciate all the advice... lol, hoping one day I stumble on something that works!

So keep them coming. :)

Areca

03-05-2008, 21:58

:laughing: I didn't think you were!!! :laughing::laughing:

I'm not the 'easily offended' type.

I really appreciate all the advice... lol, hoping one day I stumble on something that works!

So keep them coming. :)

Could you possibly seperate the twins for a week? You said they got worse after your MIL had them both. Could someone possibly take one twin for a week (and Gabe if you were prepared to) and then you could spend one full week wearing one twin down (the leader of the two of them if there is a definite leader?) with whatever strategy worked best in the past. If there's a definite leader out of the two of them then maybe that would be enough, if not swap twins, work them both down seperately and see if it helped (of course twin 1 would have to go to someone who wasn't going to allow the hard work to be undone).
I could be talking completely out of my butt here cause I'm not sure if twins would actually cope being seperated from each other for a week but if it was possible to tackle them one on one could it help?

Qube

04-05-2008, 09:21

That's good! I am sure I will be back here asking for your wisdom when ds is 3!!

OJandMe

05-05-2008, 22:45

Carmen it's a 'good' idea. But you hit it on the head.. there is no way the boys could be separated for a week.. they would just pine for each other.

They have a hard enough time if one of them is sick and stays home from kindy while the other one goes.

(something else to work on... :cool:)

Well we implemented our Jar idea..

and it's WORKING

I decided to 'test' in on Sunday (coz they just behaved like angels on Saturday) They'd left their train set in the loungeroom, and were outside riding on their cars... and I said to them "I need you to come and put your train set back where it belongs if you've finished playing with it."

and straight away Ollie came inside and started packing it up!

(Mind you... Saturday had a LOT of teething problems... including quite a few smacks for not staying on the Time Out chair... judge me if you want... I'm not spending 30 mins playing 'tag' with 3 yr old who completely disregard everything I say"

We are taking back control in our house!! :smiliedance:

And you know what! THEY LOVE IT!! They are so much calmer, and playing so much better together... they played with their trains yesterday afternoon, WITHOUT FIGHTING for one and a half HOURS.. while DH slept on the couch in the other room, and I had a lie down with Gabriel.

They are sleeping better, eating better, listening (although we're still working on the listening skills) fighting less, playing more independently.

It's tiring though.. lol.. having to give them 'good' fluffy balls for every little thing.. but hey.. it's paying off...., so bring on the fluffly balls.

They got to pick their first 'prize' today out of our prize bag. Jordan chose a pack of car stickers, and Ollie chose some coloured pencils. And you know... they even put them away straight away after they'd chosen them when I told them it was bath time and they could play with them tomorrow!

I'm so happy.... I just hope it lasts.

05-05-2008, 22:52

That's awesome news Gretel, i hope the boys continue their enthusiasm for the little reward jars and give you guys a well deserved break!

studyingECS

05-05-2008, 22:53

Thats awsome Gret:yes:, you and Carlo should be very proud of yourselves:yelclap:

Mum2Bug

05-05-2008, 22:54

Gretel Im glad to hear its working hun. Would you like to try it on Bug now?

reAllytee

05-05-2008, 23:02

Gretel Im glad to hear its working hun. Would you like to try it on Bug now?

Exciting news hun & Boof is after Bug !

Mum2Bug

05-05-2008, 23:04

Exciting news hun & Boof is after Bug !

No no hun.....we just send them both to her together:devil::devil6::D

reAllytee

05-05-2008, 23:08

No no hun.....we just send them both to her together:devil::devil6::D

Actually yes i agree with that ! :devil6::devil::raspberry:

Mum2Bug

05-05-2008, 23:16

Actually yes i agree with that ! :devil6::devil::raspberry:

See, the way I see it, she is doing it with two now so she knows how to make it work with two kids. No use giving her just one at a time, it might be different:D:p

Grizabella

05-05-2008, 23:57

Awesome stuff Gretel - so glad the jar idea is working ***touchwood***!!!! Hope you've regained a little sanity and peace :)

Qube

06-05-2008, 08:09

Glad to hear it Gret!
I was talking to my Mum the other day and she has also introduced a marble/jar system for my brothers and sister (10, nearly 12 and 6) She said it's working for them too and they also trade their 'good' marbles for rewards...Such a cool idea!

OJandMe

06-05-2008, 15:40

See, the way I see it, she is doing it with two now so she knows how to make it work with two kids. No use giving her just one at a time, it might be different

:laughing::laughing: You guys crack me up.

ahh.. :fingerscrossed: it keeps working.

I'm so sorry I haven't been around lately. It's been sooo tiring having to try and get them back in line.

Gosh, I wish you guys could send them both up for a week so you guys can have a break. :hugs::hugs:

I'm back now anyway.... So I'll be stalking ya. :p

Just Add Water

08-12-2008, 11:39

I know this thread is rather quite old.. but am wondering how it's all going with the marble system... we have a five year old who has regular meltdowns. I actually had to get in the shower with her this morning just to wash her hair... for no other reason than she said no and I ignored her... I'm dreading when school finishes for the day and I have to pick them up... and don't even mention holidays to me. If I wasn't pregnant I'd be taking every anti-stress medication on the planet *sigh*... sorry for the whinge but I'm with the other posts... tried everything (that we can anyway, changing diet has been tried but "the mother" sabotages it when she sees them for a day once a fortnight adn MIL does her bit to wreck it as well)... personally I think Dr Phil should come to Australia, either that or put me in the 'house of the tiny tearaways" - why are these shows always overseas???? I want to sign up now!!!!

I've even started trying to teach them sign langauge, I figure if I can get to a point where we can sign to each other then it might encourage actual listening. It's a good theory but it's hard work and still yet to figure out if it works...

mumma sienna

08-12-2008, 14:40

I heard this idea on the radio the other day, and after reading your thread it sounds like it could work.

IDEA: If your boys don't listen and don't do a proper time out with no playing etc. Warn them once that if they don't sit still and do time out for the designated time then there will be a consequence.

If they still do not listen, tell them to pick a toy each. After they have picked a toy each, get into the car with them and drive them to a charity bin.

Tell them that they have to put the toys they have picked into the charity bin for a child that knows how to listen and behave nicely.:laughing:

The lady on the radio said that after the 3rd time of doing this to her DD, her DD knew that after the warning there was no point defying her because she would lose a toy, forever. This is good because it's not a temporary fix. Once it goes in the charity bin, there is no getting it back!

Let me know what you think.