I am afriad for these babies!!

[Skittles]

I know this couple very well and they currently have two children. One year and one day apart in age even the worlds best mother would be stressed. However these children are constantly coming over some days not feed (and this is at about ten in the morning), and they are still wearing the nappies that they slept in. They are constantly left in dirty soiled clothing and are bathed once a week if they are lucky. One one visit i notice the 18 month old have head lice. I mentioned it to the mother and she hust shrugged. They came over again two weeks later and she still had them!! Not only her now but the six month old had them as well and the mother was scratching away at her head. I know they are not short of money because they earn more then myself and my hubby, however the baby constantly has no formula and both are left in the same nappy all day long and not changed. When i am around them the mother just sits on her butt and yells at the kids. Not just yelling i guess screaming would be a better word for it. And on a few occassions i have seen her smack BOTH kids so hard she has hurt her hand. I have spoken to them before and i get no response. And now her first is about to turn 2. Second about to turn one and the day after that she is due to have baby number 3. PLease help as i am at my whits end and dont know what to do. These kids deserve better but they are not willing to change. :(:confused:

[Bewitched]

This would be a very difficult situation to be in. This mother sounds very ignorant and lazy imo. I do not believe that mothers like this 'just need some help', if they know they have to wipe their own butt to keep clean, they're smart enough to work out that babies need the same treatment :rolleyes: There is no excuse for this sort of behaviour towards innocent dependant children. You say you've spoken to her without effect? I would be writing out a letter to her, about how you see it as an outsider (like what you've written here), because if you call child welfare is it likely she would know it was you?

[canberramomma]

I would be calling welfare. You wouldn't be the only one to notice the state of these children, I'm sure. Maybe the mother needs some counseling and some parenting classes. Maybe she came from a similar environment and is just parenting through learned behaviour/experience.

You can speak to someone anonymously if you feel better doing that.

[WorkingClassMum]

Before racing off to DHS/DOCs

If you know the mother so well, what does the father do and say? Why hasn't he spoken up or done something about all of this? He's obviously happy to impregnate her. Is the house full of squalor?

Have you spoken to him and voiced your concerns?

Do you know the rest of the family? Have you spoken to her parents/sister etc?

Granted it sounds as if the kids are being neglected - but maybe this women need some help/guidence.

Do you know her well enough to even speak to her MHN?

Having two babies so close and being that pregnant would be hard - especially if all she gets is critiscm and judgement and no real help

Can you suggest the kids go to Child Care one day a week so that she has time to get her thoughts sorted?

I don't like seeing kids that age being smacked - but she sounds like she may be at breaking point.

[reAllytee]

Before racing off to DHS/DOCs

If you know the mother so well, what does the father do and say? Why hasn't he spoken up or done something about all of this? He's obviously happy to impregnate her. Is the house full of squalor?

Have you spoken to him and voiced your concerns?

Do you know the rest of the family? Have you spoken to her parents/sister etc?

Granted it sounds as if the kids are being neglected - but maybe this women need some help/guidence.

Do you know her well enough to even speak to her MHN?

Having two babies so close and being that pregnant would be hard - especially if all she gets is critiscm and judgement and no real help

Can you suggest the kids go to Child Care one day a week so that she has time to get her thoughts sorted?

I don't like seeing kids that age being smacked - but she sounds like she may be at breaking point.


:iagree:

I would really try changing the behaviour before reporting to DoCs because honestly they are over stretched & while this does seem horrible etc it isnt actually serious where the kids are in immediate danger.

Nits arent actually a sign of 'squalor' as much as people tend to believe this. They actually need clean hair to thrive so the kids arent necessarily that dirty. Oh & i bathe my kids weekly ... I believe in saving water as well as not aggravating their skin ! ;)

She does sound like she needs some support desperately so maybe trying to offer a hand & help out or even helping her change her behaviour by her witnessing how you handle things iykwim.

Good luck !

[Skittles]

HI. Thanks everyone. I do know her family and they have just about had enough of her. they have spoken to her so many times, they have even offered to take the kids for a while so they can sort out their life. As for their home. Well they recently got evicted from the third rental house in 12 months and are now living in a caravan park. I dont want to go to Docs because i believe a child is best with its mother. but she will not listen and i dont want these children hurt. The father is an idiot. I have been friends with him my whole life and every pregnancy has been a result of a break up where he leaves...she cries baby and then 11 months later.....a baby. Go figure. I am just at a total loss.....

[Skittles]

oh and allyoo i wasnt having a go at not bath the kids every night. She has left them for upto a month at one point. I was also in referance to face washing..teeth hands etc. The baby had dreds!!!! I agree with the water issue and i didnt mean to offend if i did. Sorry!!!

[justmum]

TBH, the mum sounds like she might be depressed. Is she very different to how she was before she had children?

It's very hard, I feel for the poor mum, the children and for you too being in this very difficult situation.

But I agree with Kayte. She gives good advice ;)

[Hokey Pokey]

I'd go to docs as a last resort, if your close friends with her I would sit down over a cuppa and get her to open up with you, it sounds like she is in desperate need of some kind of help.

[Benji]

I would report her.

I don't care what her reasons are for this neglect and abuse of these children, it has to be stopped.

My main concern would be the children first. Then the mother's issues.

[the_queen]

DOCS wouldn't remove the children anyway - they're stretched, like someone else said, and neglect (while certainly abhorrent) isn't enough to remove the children. She would get counselling and help offered to her, and the Welfare people would at least be aware of the existance of these children. That's important in the long run.

[Shanaynay]

Why do people seem to think that all DOCS do is take children away?
It's simply not true and is the LAST resort the organisation will go to.

I have worked with a family who sounds similar to the family described.
DOCS helped an enourmous deal - they helped the family with financial counsellors so they could organise their money better, they paid for the mother to have driving lessons and her licence (her not being able to get out of the house was a major problem).
They bought a cot and change table when the new baby was due.
The mother and father both take part in parenting classes organised by DOCS.
They even printed off little behaviour/star chart thingos for the older children and showed the mother how to use them.

Basically DOCS gave them the resources and support they needed, and gave the mum a kick up the butt so she stood back and took a look at how bad her parenting was.

Things are going HEAPS better for that family and it's all the result of the help of DOCS. Removing the children from their homes may have been one consideration at the beginning, but now with heaps of help and support the family is doing much better.

[mumofcuties]

i have two children 10months apart and they would bever still be in there night time nappys at 10 oclock or not be fed, she might need some help but having another one isnt going to make the situation any better do you know if she has any family that could help her on friends that you could talk to

[V8]

I haven't had anything to do with DOCS, so not sure what their actually policy and that is, but i would assume and from what The_Queen and Phineas has said that the children will not automatically just be taken away. Surely the mother will be given some advice and attention as to her parenting skills and sounds like they definately need some help she isn't listenting to her family and friends, i'd definately resort to getting her some professional help, isn't that what docs is for??

[purplefairy]

Wow, it does sound like she needs help, especially expecting number 3. Could be a number of reason for this behavour, like depression. I was wondering though, because you mentioned that they are on good money but still cant find money for formula or rent, is there or could there be drugs involved?
That would maybe explain a lot but it maybe just depression.
I dont believe that you can turn a blind eye to this. If her family has tried to help and you have tried as well than I suppose other steps need to start being taken to ensure the heath and welfare or those children.
If you felt bad about calling DOCs maybe could you try once more with her family to suggest some type of help to try to get to the bottom of her behavour?
Like another post said, DOCs will only remove the child if it is the last and truly last resort. There aim and goals is to keep the family together and offer help counciling and assistance.
I think it sound pretty bad if those kids arnt having there bottoms changed etc, its very neglectful and will or may have already caused Major developmental problems. If it was my friend I would try to talk firstly, say hey whats the prob, this is not the go, this is neglect and Im worried about you and your kids. Give her some info on neglected children and whati it does, try and educate her and if she doesnt want to reach out for help, then I would call Docs because it really isnt in the end about her if she is neglecting those Kids its about their health and safty. No one wants to treat their child for nits but hey thats life and it has to be done. She sounds like she needs some help.

[Qube]

Why do people seem to think that all DOCS do is take children away?
It's simply not true and is the LAST resort the organisation will go to.

I have worked with a family who sounds similar to the family described.
DOCS helped an enourmous deal - they helped the family with financial counsellors so they could organise their money better, they paid for the mother to have driving lessons and her licence (her not being able to get out of the house was a major problem).
They bought a cot and change table when the new baby was due.
The mother and father both take part in parenting classes organised by DOCS.
They even printed off little behaviour/star chart thingos for the older children and showed the mother how to use them.

Basically DOCS gave them the resources and support they needed, and gave the mum a kick up the butt so she stood back and took a look at how bad her parenting was.

Things are going HEAPS better for that family and it's all the result of the help of DOCS. Removing the children from their homes may have been one consideration at the beginning, but now with heaps of help and support the family is doing much better.
:iagree: I was just about to say that :p Reporting them to the child abuse report line will not mean that someone will march in and remove their children. They will be offered assistance, counseling, referred to support networks etc. If talking to them hasn't helped, then I would personally be making that difficult call :hugs:

[reAllytee]

oh and allyoo i wasnt having a go at not bath the kids every night. She has left them for upto a month at one point. I was also in referance to face washing..teeth hands etc. The baby had dreds!!!! I agree with the water issue and i didnt mean to offend if i did. Sorry!!!

Sorry i wasnt offended i was being cheeky ... whoops !

Phin - I hope you didnt think i was saying that she shouldnt report to DoCs as they will take the kids away that wasnt what i meant:no:

It was more that they are overstretched etc & while yes maybe they will follow up to help her out etc i really cant see it happening if they are struggling with harder cases iykwim.

I just really hope these kids can get help from family but if not maybe her family can look into where they stand legally in terms of forcing the issue ????

[RHJ]

DOCS wouldn't remove the children anyway - they're stretched, like someone else said, and neglect (while certainly abhorrent) isn't enough to remove the children. She would get counselling and help offered to her, and the Welfare people would at least be aware of the existance of these children. That's important in the long run.
:iagree:

[Veritas]

Why do people seem to think that all DOCS do is take children away?
It's simply not true and is the LAST resort the organisation will go to.

Well said Phin.... as someone who has a family member fairly high up in the Dept, I have a very good understanding of their processes.....

Definitely call the helpline and let them know of the conditions these children are living in.... it would most definitely be classed as neglect.....

DOCS will only remove children from their families if their lives are in immediate danger, or they have been witness to fairly severe abuse.... having said that severe negligence is considered immediate danger, and they are much more diligent on this now after the recent cases.....

DOCS have many many many support services that families in need have access to, and this is obviously their first port of call.....

They may be able to offer her some education, counselling, financial or physical resources, child care, etc, to help her get her parenting skills in order, and if all else fails then they will look at other avenues....

Have you spoken to her about the way she parents, or lack thereof??? Does she give reason as to why she is neglecting the basic needs of her very young children???? Has she been treated for Mental Health issues.... if she has, Mental Health Depts may be able to offer some resources too.....

[Skittles]

Hi again. You guys have really had me thinking all day!!! I have spoken to her. So many times. As has the MIL and her father. They are just young (she is 19 and he is22) and i really dont think they understand. they have had their child care centre talk to them becasue of the kids nappy rash (was so bad needed two lots os anitbiotics to clear it) and they just took the kids out of that centre. I dont want them to lose thier kids but the assistance sounds like a good option....She has no mental health issues that are known of....but she constantly is seeking attention. Thank you all so much for your input. Will have a chat to her again and then see how things go....

[MyFourCubs]

Could you speak with the local child health clinic? Or speak ("anonymously") to their child care centre? I couldn't sit on it and not do anything. Would break my heart!:crying:

[V8]

Definately need to do something, talk to her parents and IL's again and if there are several of you ringing DOCS and having concerns then maybe something will be done. This could all get much worse by the sounds if they are not listening to anybody.

[prideNJoy]

I would report her.
Yes, a child is best left with its mother but only when the mother is a fit one. Baby #3 is on its way and how stressed out will she be then?

Hungry, uncomfortable and dirty is no way to keep children and she sounds like an absoultely useless woman to me. Report away!

:iagree:
Hopefully this way she would get the help she truly needs.
That is just awful to think of those two little bubs living this way, and another due to be bought into the horrible situation. :(

[Little Gorilla]

Obviouly these parents need some direction.

Leaving nappies on kids all day - not having enough formula and having kids go hungry - not washing them properly - hitting them (they are only 1 and 2!!) - this is not on in my book.

Plus you said they weren't financiall struggling - there is no excuse for letting kids live like this.

I hope they can get some direction from somewhere - they need professional help.

I don't think you speaking to them or their parents speaking to them is going to help.

Personally a visit from a child health nurse or DOCs or some government department might shock them back into reality - what they are doing is very neglectful.

It is a huge worry that she is expecting her 3rd child - she obviously can't cope with 2 - I already feel sorry for no. 3 if this family doesn't get some help.

[SpecialMumma]

Why do people seem to think that all DOCS do is take children away?
It's simply not true and is the LAST resort the organisation will go to.

I have worked with a family who sounds similar to the family described.
DOCS helped an enourmous deal - they helped the family with financial counsellors so they could organise their money better, they paid for the mother to have driving lessons and her licence (her not being able to get out of the house was a major problem).
They bought a cot and change table when the new baby was due.
The mother and father both take part in parenting classes organised by DOCS.
They even printed off little behaviour/star chart thingos for the older children and showed the mother how to use them.

Basically DOCS gave them the resources and support they needed, and gave the mum a kick up the butt so she stood back and took a look at how bad her parenting was.

Things are going HEAPS better for that family and it's all the result of the help of DOCS. Removing the children from their homes may have been one consideration at the beginning, but now with heaps of help and support the family is doing much better.

:iagree:


I would report her.
Yes, a child is best left with its mother but only when the mother is a fit one. Baby #3 is on its way and how stressed out will she be then?



I agree. What about the children who HAVE been left with their mother/parents and HAVE ended up dead? They weren't best left with their mothers/family.


DOCS wouldn't remove the children anyway - they're stretched, like someone else said, and neglect (while certainly abhorrent) isn't enough to remove the children. She would get counselling and help offered to her, and the Welfare people would at least be aware of the existance of these children. That's important in the long run.

:iagree:


Hi again. You guys have really had me thinking all day!!! I have spoken to her. So many times. As has the MIL and her father. They are just young (she is 19 and he is22) and i really dont think they understand. they have had their child care centre talk to them becasue of the kids nappy rash (was so bad needed two lots os anitbiotics to clear it) and they just took the kids out of that centre. I dont want them to lose thier kids but the assistance sounds like a good option....She has no mental health issues that are known of....but she constantly is seeking attention. Thank you all so much for your input. Will have a chat to her again and then see how things go....

The childcare centre should have also reported them.

Also, just be careful how much you DO chat to her about this. She MAY run from you too if you keep pushing the subject. Even if you are a good friend.


Call DOCS/whoever appropriate in your state. As previous posters have said, they wont just walk in and remove the children. They will assess the situation. Offer help. DOCS arent all big bully meanies like they are made out to be!

But please, for the childrens sake. You wouldnt want something to happen to the children and you regret not contacting someone.

[Bewitched]

They are just young (she is 19 and he is22) and i really dont think they understand. they have had their child care centre talk to them becasue of the kids nappy rash (was so bad needed two lots os anitbiotics to clear it) and they just took the kids out of that centre. I dont want them to lose thier kids but the assistance sounds like a good option....She has no mental health issues that are known of....but she constantly is seeking attention.

Hmmm, this has had me thinking some more. I am starting to think these two people didn't even want to have children :( They sound scared to face up to responsibility - yes i know they are young but still, if you choose to have babies, you are choosing to grow up and be responsible for them. It's quite possible the mother is depressed, and being unhappy with her life it's normal she is seeking attention, however because she is so young and immature she probably believes her needs are more important than her childrens :shame: These two need direction - and NOW. Report them immediately so someone can show them how to move on in their lives and be responsible parents to those poor kids.

[ashleerose]

From what you have posted, the parents have been spoken to a number of times and nothing has come of it.

Now is the time to stand up and say enough is enough. You can report it anonmously, when reporting it be sure to mention the fact that the preschool knew of the situation as well and that the kids were removed from the preschool as a result of it.

Docs will help them out they will not take the kids from them but help them sort themselfs out so that these innocent children are not left in this situation.

Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind, i myself would rather look back at this situation and know that i did the right thing than look back and think omg why didnt anyone else get them help and i wish i did.

Just knowing that there have been so many other kids left in situations because everyone else didnt take action and tragically in some cases the children have been killed is enough for me to act otherwise those that are aware of situations such as this and others and do not act may as well be hurting the children.

So please dont be afraid to get them help, docs will come in and help them and if not at least give them the wake up call that they need for the kids sake.

[blackdog]

TBH, the mum sounds like she might be depressed. Is she very different to how she was before she had children?

It's very hard, I feel for the poor mum, the children and for you too being in this very difficult situation.

But I agree with Kayte. She gives good advice ;)

:iagree:

Maybe, depending on her personality, she needs someone to do more than 'offer to take the kids'. Maybe she needs someone to tell her what to do. I'm a bit like that. If someone offers help, I think I will come across as weak, so my friends know they have to say, "Right, this is what is going to happen!"

Does she go to baby clinic? When my daughter was a baby it was the local free clinic that picked up my PND and I got free counselling and everything.

Good luck, anyway. It's a toughie.

[Emi]

i think this is a very delicate situation... i would try talking to the family and find out wahts happening... if that doesnt get you any where i would talk to someone at docs...
last year in my course (diploma of children services).. we did a section and whole topic on this.. and what we would if confronted by the sitaution... i think its important to protect to the children at all costs... but then you have to seriously think... what would the children benefit from more???
a family friend try to help and sort this out? some one they know?... or complete strangers coming into thier lives...???

try and help them yourself... or call social worker or someone (a professional) and ask them for advice...

good luck!!!

[bubbleyblossom]

i think this is a very delicate situation... i would try talking to the family and find out wahts happening... if that doesnt get you any where i would talk to someone at docs...
last year in my course (diploma of children services).. we did a section and whole topic on this.. and what we would if confronted by the sitaution... i think its important to protect to the children at all costs... but then you have to seriously think... what would the children benefit from more???
a family friend try to help and sort this out? some one they know?... or complete strangers coming into thier lives...???

try and help them yourself... or call social worker or someone (a professional) and ask them for advice...

good luck!!!
:iagree: I also remember doing this in class (emi and i are in the same course) and I would also recommend seeking advice from a professional. At all costs these children need to be protected, but as Em said it is a delicate situation. You dont want something bad to happen to the children if the parents get angry from DOCS or someone being called.
I wish you the best of luck with this, and I hope things improve for these kids