ABC Catalyst - IVF & acupuncture [Archive] - Bub Hub Pregnancy & Parenting Forum

isobelsmum

04-04-2008, 08:16 AM

I watched it - it was great. They said it did help. It was more geared towards acupuncture than the herbs - but all good.

I believed it anway as I used herbs to have my little one and have known numerous women who used acupuncture with success.

Are you in Brisbane? I can refer to you a fantastic chinese doctor who I swear by.

shellf

04-04-2008, 08:34 AM

Hi Isobelsmum

I live in Brisbane - I have conceived (6weeks today:smiliedance:) but would be very interested to know who you recommend. I have been taking some natural things pre-conception but have always been interest in the accunpuncture.

hopeforbub

04-04-2008, 08:38 AM

We read the study and it prompted us to use acupuncture for our 3rd cycle, success! We are sure this helped us as well as a change in diet and changes to lifestyle (less cycling). I can recommend a great acupuncture practitioner in Townsville if relevant.

Transcript of show last night here

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/2008/04/03/2205046.htm

Desper8forbub

04-04-2008, 10:18 AM

Thanks for much for posting the link hopeforbub - I missed it too.....was really annoyed, but thanks to you, now know what it was all about.

Just wondered if anyone can tell me::confused:
* Am I too late for accupuncture to help me. I am waiting for AF (any day) and then start a Flare Cycle on Day two (injections of Lucrin and Gonal F) - which is a really short program - from AF to Transfer will only be about 12-14 days.

Thanks heaps,

Sonja

04-04-2008, 11:31 AM

Hi Desper8forbub,

I wouldn't think you're too late. I understand the critical time is during egg development (for egg quality) and then at EPU and transfer (for helping with the lining). I started seeing my acupuncturist while I was on the pill before I started injections and she said I had plenty of time before they ramped up the visits. Still I on'y go once a week.

Definitely see someone and they'll let you know but it sounds like your timing will be fine.

If it's any comfort, the woman in the show last night had only 3 acupuncture treatments in her whole cycle and got a BFP.

Sonja

nevergivenup

04-04-2008, 02:26 PM

MrsMacsPies

04-04-2008, 05:51 PM

hey Desper, definately not too late. coincidently i saw a chinese medicine woman yesterday and she said the most important part (for me as i worry about implantation) is to have an acupuncture session before & after transfer...

ChilliGirl

04-04-2008, 07:34 PM

Acupuncture is great!!! I was really lucky and saw Caroline Smith too. ICSI #1 (male factor only) and a BFP for us!! I saw her for a couple of sessions during my cycle but most importantly, on the day of ET I saw her just before ET and just after ET. Her research is well worth a read! All the best with your cycle!

hopingfor2

04-04-2008, 08:09 PM

Hi
Thanks everyone for replying. I wanted to see the program mainly to validate my own experience with acupuncture and chinese medicine which has been great but wondered if it generally does help.

From my experience my cycles are now regular and it increased my lining thickness before transfers from 7.5 to 11mm. Also since doing acupuncture and chinese medicine I have had three pregnancies, sadly all miscarried because of NK cells hyperactivity.

Good news is that this is now treatable so I am now seeking a donor and really hope we can finally have another baby.

If anyone is interested I can recommend a really good chinese doctor in Sydney.

Desper8forbub it's not too late, if nothing else definately do the acupuncture day before transfer and just after a transfer as . IMrsMacsPies says. I swear by the herbs as well.
Sharon

isobelsmum

04-04-2008, 08:14 PM

Hi shellf - I have PM'd you

cantwait08

05-04-2008, 12:26 PM

out of interest, where do the practitioners insert the needle for ivf support? I wonder if the treatment success depends on the points that the acupunturist uses.

MrsMacsPies

06-04-2008, 12:39 PM

Yeh i'd be intersted to know the above question too as i'll have the acupuncture hopefullylater this week? Anyone had it before. Until I saw Catalyst I assumed back... now i'm thinking all over?

becster05

06-04-2008, 12:56 PM

Yeh i'd be intersted to know the above question too as i'll have the acupuncture hopefullylater this week? Anyone had it before. Until I saw Catalyst I assumed back... now i'm thinking all over?

Hi Girls,

I don't know the exact names of the positions that they put the needles, but they do put them all over your body. It also depends on what part of the cycle you are in i.e. they can improve egg quality, improve circulation to your uterus after EPU etc. I have been going for the last month or so and they generally put 1 on the top of my head (relaxation point, I think), 1 between my eyebrows, 1-2 on each arm, 2 on tummy below navel, and 1 between big & 2nd toe on left foot. On occassion it has changed with 1 below left knee I think but can't remember which part of the cycle.

I don't know if it has helped me yet, but I do know I have a great sleep whilst I am there, and I generally wake up pretty clumsy!! :laughing:

If for nothing else, it is great relaxation!! We all certainly need some of that going through these cycles thats for sure!!

Hope this helps....

ziggyzena

06-04-2008, 03:22 PM

Hi Girls,

I don't know the exact names of the positions that they put the needles, but they do put them all over your body. It also depends on what part of the cycle you are in i.e. they can improve egg quality, improve circulation to your uterus after EPU etc. I have been going for the last month or so and they generally put 1 on the top of my head (relaxation point, I think), 1 between my eyebrows, 1-2 on each arm, 2 on tummy below navel, and 1 between big & 2nd toe on left foot. On occassion it has changed with 1 below left knee I think but can't remember which part of the cycle.

I don't know if it has helped me yet, but I do know I have a great sleep whilst I am there, and I generally wake up pretty clumsy!! :laughing:

If for nothing else, it is great relaxation!! We all certainly need some of that going through these cycles thats for sure!!

Hope this helps....

:iagree:
I have been having accupuncture for the last three months i have one in my fore head between the eyebrows, one on each of my wrists, five sometimes six under my navel abdomin area, one in the side of each my knees, and one in each side of my ankles. Yes thats it, I have the same every week.. yes its such a great sleep isn't it!! LOL

MrsMacsPies

06-04-2008, 04:07 PM

Thanks for that info - most helpfully.

Now honestly girls - does it hurt?!?! :) (i'm a softy)... If my doc gives it the nod i'll be having one before and after transfer. The acupuncturist said to make it as close bfore and after transfer... i'm hoping to improve implantation.

becster05

06-04-2008, 04:39 PM

I don't find it painful at all. Occassionally you feel a little pinch when it goes in (I find it mainly on the one between my toes), mostly I find it relaxing. If you move a lot after then you can feel them sitting in there as well, but I find I fall asleep!!

You will be fine, I promise!! :yes:

ziggyzena

06-04-2008, 08:28 PM

No it doesn't hurt, it can feel a little weird sometimes but not painfull!!!!
Just like a little pinch yes a little pinch i think thats how to explain it!!!!

But yeh then i fall asleep toooo! so I don't feel anything xx

blondekelli

07-04-2008, 11:50 AM

HI There,

I have been seeing an accupuncturist in Melbourne at 'Fertile Ground', they specialise in IVF and fertility treatment, and know more about the IVF cycles and protocols than I do!

You need to have treatment within 24 hrs before and after ET. Before they will concentrate on head, hands and around stomach, afterwards they will avoide stomach area. A good acupuncturist wont hurt a bit!

There is a great article in the last New Woman about fertility and they state 'statistics' on how acupuncture improved IVF success.

Yet to know if its been a success with me yet... BT on Friday. :fingerscrossed:

Kel x

Naards

07-04-2008, 04:15 PM

Yep I've been doing accupuncture too... for me they generally put in 5 needles... 1 on foot or ankle, 1 on other ankle, 1 in top of wrist, 1 in other wrist or between the thumb and index finger (this is the only one that hurts for me) and then 1 in the top of my head (I can tune in channel 10 from there! :laughing:).

I absolutely agree that if nothing else accupuncture is great for relaxation. You do feel physically relaxed as soon as the needles are in... last time I fell asleep three times and woke myself up with snoring!! :o

I too haven't had my result yet (I'm same day as Kel) but it has certainly made me feel more relaxed about the whole process! :yes:

cantwait08

08-04-2008, 09:18 PM

how long has everyone been having the acupuncture treatment? I would be interested if you have had BFN with the treatment.

On that catalyst show recently the lady that was treated and successful was actually on her 4th ivf attempt. With a 20-25% chance of ivf success makes u wonder whether acu had anything to do with it. Maybe if it was first or 2nd attempt?

What do u think?

Naards

09-04-2008, 06:18 AM

cantwait08

09-04-2008, 08:15 AM

Well i have been on IVF/ICSI for 4 years now and had three cycles. This is the first time I've done accupuncture and i get an indication today.... fingers crossed it has made all the difference! :fingerscrossed:

Wishing you well Naards. I hope you get the excellent news and looking forward to hearing your result! :fingerscrossed::wizard::babydust2:

hopeforbub

09-04-2008, 08:38 AM

Hi again,

Cantwait08: We used acupuncture for the first time on our third cycle and had success.:yelclap:

My understanding of the study (very basic as it is) was that the people who had acupuncture improved chances of BFP to over 40%. People without it stayed at the 20 and 25%.

NAARDS Good luck! lots of this:babydust2:

rachwantsababy

09-04-2008, 08:54 AM

Hi girls,

does anyone know if accupuncture helps with quality of eggs? mine are quite fragile and havent had any fertilise, just wondering if anyone had had any success regarding quality of eggies???

hopingfor2

09-04-2008, 09:26 AM

Hi,
The chinese doctor I see recommends the herbal medicine for improved egg quality. They make up a 'tea forumula' for you.

I found it really made a difference with the regularity of my cycles and no PMS.

But as I am seeking an egg donor I can't comment on whether it would have improved my egg quality.

I would give anything a try if there was some suggestion it helped. The herbs certainly can't do you any harm....only downside it's like drinking mud!
Sharon

rachwantsababy

09-04-2008, 09:34 AM

hopingfor2 - you havent done another cycle since using the herbs? How many cycles have you done with transfers etc? Im just curious, sorry if Im asking to much..

oldchuck

09-04-2008, 09:40 AM

rachwantsababy - I believe it helped me. I was classed as having poor quality eggs. I have been having acuputure and herbs. My last IVF I got 16 eggs, 13 eggs suitable, 11 Frozen the most I ever got before was 3-4 eggs and non suitable for freezing. I believe the combination worked. Although I haven't had a BFP I'm continuing on with acupunture and herbs for my next FET.

Good luck

rachwantsababy

09-04-2008, 10:43 AM

oldchuck - thanks so much for that advice, I really do believe it can help me and I am going to give it my all, that is a hug difference for eggies for you on your last EPU. I have only ever had 1 fertilise, so hopefully this will help us, I will try anything to get this dream to happen for me.

hopingfor2

09-04-2008, 10:52 AM

Hi rachwantsababy,

Sorry my story is probably is a bit confusing.

With my first egg donor we always had transfers...her egg's were really good but I never got pregnant.

She only wanted to do it three times so then another friend offered. I then started with traditional chinese medicine (TCM) and first transfer I got pregnant! Unfortunately I miscarried and same thing happened with next cycle. The last cycle we did we had only 1 dodgy embryo to transfer.

So they have finally worked out why I am miscarrying (only took them 2.5 years...I have an immune problem but it's treatable). Typical isn't they finally work out what the problem is and now I need a donor as my last donor is concerned that her eggs are not that good from the last cycle.

I guess the answer to your question is that without the TCM I couldn't even get pregnant.
So I really have so much faith in TCM
Sharon

rachwantsababy

09-04-2008, 11:26 AM

thanks hopingfor2 - I have had 3 cycles on my own no fertilisation, donor cycle 5 eggs no fertilisation, they feel they may have left the eggs in there too long.... AARGGHHH. They may say my eggs are the best quality, but I am going to do everything I can to get my baby.... miracles happen everyday!

serenity2008

09-04-2008, 12:49 PM

Hi girls,

I did my 1st antagonist cycle in march 08.. we got 2 eggs, both fertised, but no transfer.
I was on a low dose of Gonal F.

So this time they will up my meds.

I watched the show on IVF and acupuncture.

I have managed to get hold of Caroline smith as I live in Adelaide. So we will be starting our 2nd ISCI antagonist cycle in May.

I have 1st apt with her on 13th may.

I think I will be doing treatments on day of transfer.. which will be good.

Serenity

nevergivenup

09-04-2008, 02:29 PM

Rach - just let me know if you are interested in contacting the herbalist/acupuncurist I have been seeing... she is fantastic! She goes above and beyond to try and help. You could still see Caroline for acupuncture and then Lea for herbs if you would prefer. It's a good idea to start herbs as soon as possible as it can take a little while to get the combination of herbs just right for you. Lea does either straight acupuncture or combined acupuncture with herbs depending on what people want to do. I decided to change from Caroline to Lea only because I could get both treatments done whilst seeing Lea. I really think it could help but totally up to you. :flowerz: I reckon you can do it!! .... make some beautiful embies for transfer all on your own

rachwantsababy

09-04-2008, 02:45 PM

nevergivenup - thanks so much. I am hesitant about the herbs as my FS said there was research done to show it can hurt IVF attempts? However the accupuncture is something I am definatly going to do. where did you go? Im so focussed on healthy now its not funny, I have been working out each night, and have just got Ben to join me back up to the gym for my birthday pressie! I feel it gives me something to focus on without the focus of IVF for 3 months.

nevergivenup

10-04-2008, 08:02 AM

Thanks Rach - My FS said that they can't back it up because there isn't enough information out there about chinese herbs so that can't say if it helps or not. She did say that they do know that some herbs can mimmic hormones which can conflict with their drugs which would cause a problem. She also said that some of the drugs they use are actually derived from herbs. Basically FS advised me that I should make sure none of the chinese herbs replicate hormones.

I am more confused than ever about my next cycle. I have tried x2 stim cycles with just acupuncture and x2 with acupuncture and chinese herbs. And had a BFP with both approaches. I just don't know what to do with my next cycle. I think it is just starting to hit me that I am embarking on my 5th stim cycle and 9th attempt at trying to fall pregnant. I feeling very nervous today.

rachwantsababy

10-04-2008, 08:10 AM

nevergivenup- as you had pregnancies with and without chinese medicine I would go with whatever makes you feel confident, surely doing both cant hurt. I know how you are feeling, you feel so excited knowing you are doing another cycle and then so terrified when the times comes to start. I think it was you that once told me to stay positive and keep on going, that we will get our dream, ours just may take a little longer than some peoples right? On a bright note you know that your eggs are ok and they fertilise, so that is one hurdle, now we need to make the little bugger stick!!!! I will be crossing everything for you, well almost, still need to keep trying naturally you know and thats hard with legs crossed! LOL....

If I were you, I would do the accupunture and the chinese medicine..... but of course its your decision at the end of the day. Just trying to offer my advice.
xxxxxxx

nevergivenup

10-04-2008, 08:28 AM

Thanks Rach, what would we do without each other to put us back on the right track. Your right I am terrified of this cycle not working, I looked over all my embryo photos this morning and counted 8 of them... made me feel all teary that none of them have given me what I have been longing for. It's so easy in the lead up to the cycle to feel fantastic and then when it starts getting close the anxiety starts to set in. Probably feeling like this right now as AF is due so I am probably feeling more emotional. Thanks for pepping me up and reminding me about keeping positive and keeping on going. :goodvibes:

rachwantsababy

10-04-2008, 08:40 AM

nevergivenup - anytime hun, thats what friends are for. when AF is due everything seems so much worse, I have been so up and down lately I dont know if Im coming or going, sometimes I think, yep, I going to do all of this and it will work, I will defy the odds, then other times I think Im grasping at straws, the thought of never having a baby terrifies me so much, but we will all get there! One way or another we will all have babies in our arms, and we are all here for each other to support each other in getting there :hugs:

oldchuck

10-04-2008, 09:41 AM

Hi nevergivenup

I'd agree with rachwantsababy, go with what feels right. I've done 4 transfers with acupunture and herbs and one without. DH always questions why I continue to have acupunture and herbs, when I always get BFN, but I can see and feel the benefits, I too questioned whether I should continue with them but made the decision that I would as I have every faith in my acupucturist and herbalist.

The journey is hard. Mine and DH's approach was as long as as have tried everything available to us then that is all we can do.

Please know you are not alone and I'm sure we all have an idea as to how you feel and an understaning of your pain and anxious. There's support here when and if you need it.

serenity2008

10-04-2008, 05:06 PM

hi girls
I have been thinking I have apt on 13th May with caroline smith for accupuncture.. but I used Reiki in my last cycle and the energy from that was amazing. I want to use Reiki again.. but Reiki does have similar effect as accupunture as it works on Chi and the energys.. so I am doubling up and overdose if I have accupuncture as well..:hair: the mind games with IVF.. you want it to work.. but don't want to stuff it up either.

Gosh I can talk :ecomcity:

cantwait08

10-04-2008, 07:55 PM

I had my second acupunture appt today and after seeing others post on where the needles go im a little concerned with my current practitioner. At the moment im treated with needles - one in each hand (btw index finger and thumb), one on side of each knee, 2 on each leg around the ankle, and 3 in a line down my stomach below my navel. I asked whether these would be the same points at transfer and he said yes.

Kel - in your previous post you mention that your acu. practitioner avoids the stomach area after transfer and i googled this and found that is correct, there should not be needles in the stomach after embie transfer.

I now not sure whether i should go back to this person and try elsewhere for my transfer acupuncture.

What have others experienced at transfer?

hopingfor2

10-04-2008, 08:44 PM

Hi cantwait08

I have been to two acupuncturists. Both of them specialising in IVF with very good reputations.

They use the same points as you have described and they also do needles in the stomach area after transfer, however not in the same areas as before a transfer.

Where did you find the info when you googled?

Sharon

cantwait08

10-04-2008, 08:52 PM

This is one of them - http://www.americanpregnancy.org/infertility/acupuncture.htm

Here is the extract:

Your acupuncturist should not place needles in the abdomino-pelvic area after insemination or transfer. There are 6 contraindicated acupuncture points which should be avoided when the patient is pregnant or pregnancy is suspected. These include Gallbladder 21, Stomach 12, Large Intestine 4, Spleen 6, Bladder 60, Bladder 67 and any points on the lower abdomen.