baby dies of heartattack following circumcision

[chicky2lala]

:( http://www.ejpress.org/article/14206

15 mins after he was circumcised he died of a heart attack...:(

[the_queen]

:( That is a sad story, I've read that before and it is very very very sad :( Poor bubby boy. They can say "no causal link" as much as they want, but how would you feel, as parents, for the rest of your life. :( :(

[Jakois]

:( Oh my, such a terrible thing to happen. So unnecassary as well.:no:

[neostudded]

I just read the article and told my mum.
She couldnt believe it she so so upset.
poor, poor baby...I cant even explain how sad that is.At least he is safe now.:angel:

[Blueberry Crumble]

It should be outlawed

[GraceUnhearing]

poor little thing

it should be outlawed unless its 100% medically necessary!

its completely unnecessary to perform such thing on babies

[punkbaby]

Thats so sad, unfortunately there are a few cases like this though and other horror stories :(

I agree with GraceUnhearing....i think it should only be done if absolutely necessary too

[♥Heaven Sent♥]

That is so sad :(

[preciousbabyboy]

poor little thing

it should be outlawed unless its 100% medically necessary!

its completely unnecessary to perform such thing on babies


So sad, :iagree:

[Ashleigh<3]

If pro-circers knew more about the possibility of a heart attack whilst circing, (and the long list of other terrible outcomes), I bet they'd think twice about not going through with it. :(

I can't wait till it becomes outlawed!
:thumbsup:
I have a strong feeling that it may happen sooner then we think. It's so unfortunate that terrible incidents like this happen in order for idiot health professionals to wake up.
Sad that not all health professionals care.

[MoonstoneMumma]

if they are soooooo heavily religious - would they not then wonder why god put it there in the first place???????

[Ashleigh<3]

if they are soooooo heavily religious - would they not then wonder why god put it there in the first place???????

I have wondered that too.

[kas3]

I'm not against circumcision as such. I can't see much point in it though.

[sam's mum]

there are so many risks to circumcision, and I am yet to be advised of any advantages that warrant these risks.

death is a risk of circumcision, the odds are that it won't happen, but even if odds are 1 in a billion, someone is that 1.

[kas3]

Sorry... I know I'm going to sound ignorant... I've always been anti-circumcision because of the pain... Sam's mum, you mentioned that there were a lot of risks as well... do you mean infections, that kind of thing?

[xkwzit]

Hi Kas
I know that we have discussed complications / impact of circ at length, check out these threads from the hub library:
http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?p=2329633&highlight=circumcision+complications#post2329633
http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=124803&highlight=circumcision+complications
http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=98461&highlight=circumcision+complications
http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=69138&highlight=circumcision+complications
http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=56733&highlight=circumcision+complications
http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=41642&highlight=circumcision+complications

Of course, there may well be more, but we should prob open a new thread if ppl want to discuss that.

Cheers

[Nowhere]

Poor darling RIP little one

and the parents as well i feed bad for them also

[PaperTiger]

That poor baby boy, his suffering must have been immense. His poor little body would have been overwelmed with stress hormones to cause a heart attack like that 15 mins after surgery. I could not read the story, but I hope there was a coronial inquiry, and I pray that some good can come out of this tragedy.

RIP little angel. :angel:

[Milliner]

That poor little boy. I can't even bring myself to read it.

:(

[sam's mum]

Sorry... I know I'm going to sound ignorant... I've always been anti-circumcision because of the pain... Sam's mum, you mentioned that there were a lot of risks as well... do you mean infections, that kind of thing?

excessive bleeding
infection
meatal stenosis
damage to glans and frenulus
skin bridges
excessive amputation (up to and including total loss of penis)
scarring
death

there are more, but they are anecdotal, the ones above are proven.

[MummaBear03]

excessive bleeding
infection
meatal stenosis
damage to glans and frenulus
skin bridges
excessive amputation (up to and including total loss of penis)
scarring
death

there are more, but they are anecdotal, the ones above are proven.
:crying: I know there are times it's necessary like if there is ongoing infections, but these are rare anyway. I'm just thankful that circumcision isn't big over here anymore and many doctors will not do it. In America it's still perfectly accepted, not only that but it's also expected that if you have a boy he will become circumcised, it's like they go hand-in-hand. I'm really waiting for this to be outlawed, even a single baby dying is too much. How would those parents feel now, knowing that they caused it :( even if it cannot be absolutely proven, it's proof enough just in the fact that their baby is now dead, it would sure be enough for me to blame myself entirely for it. Nothing is getting off my child unless it's faulty and needs to be removed that's for sure!

[the_queen]

:( :( when a girl has ongoing infections though, there's no talk of female circumcision. :( :( :( Oh this whole topic is all just so sad :crying:

[MummaBear03]

:( :( when a girl has ongoing infections though, there's no talk of female circumcision.
Good point.

[WorkingClassMum]

if they are soooooo heavily religious - would they not then wonder why god put it there in the first place???????

The circumcision of Jewish boys is described in Genesis, the first book of the Old Testament, in a passage in which God tells Abraham that all boys must have their foreskins removed on the eighth day of their lives as a mark of the covenant between God and the Jewish people.

I also wonder if the poor bubs had a cogenital/underlying medical condition that would have caused a heart attack either way?

No matter the reason for death, a poor babe has gone, and two parents will have to live with that forever.:gloomy:

[my_lot]

: How would those parents feel now, knowing that they caused it !


I dont think they caused it at all. Their baby probably had a heart condition (or any other medical condition!) that wasnt picked up at birth.

I dont see the link.

He may well have died while she was breastfeeding him would we all run around with cry icons saying how sad it is?

[Milliner]

If the child did have a heart condition then the shock of circumcision could have very well triggered a heart attack. This is not the first story of it's kind, I can see a link. The pain during the circumcision process often is severe and persistent. There is a 50% increase over the baseline in heart rate in males undergoing the procedure, and an increase in level of blood cortisol by a factor of three or more times has been recorded.


Losing a child no matter what the circumstances is 'sad' - Whether or not that child was breastfeeding at the time or was hit by a car it is still heartbreaking.

[Ashleigh<3]

Thanks for that info Milliner.


There is a 50% increase over the baseline in heart rate in males undergoing the procedure, and an increase in level of blood cortisol by a factor of three or more times has been recorded.

That warrants crying icons indeed.

[xkwzit]

I think that we need to stop assuming that the baby was not given pain relief. The sidebar of the article states:


The Mohel, many of whom are doctors or Rabbis, removes the baby's foreskin under local anaesthetic, using a special knife called an Izmel.

Any mention of pain is a bit speculative and unwarranted, given the above information.

Thanks

[naiwen]

I thought traditionally they gave them a rag soaked in wine to suck during the bris?

[icugal]

I doubt very much that the circumcision caused the heart attack. This baby must have had an underlying and undiagnosed cardiac condition. In a normal healthy person, a stress reponse is very unlikely to induce a cardiac arrest.

It's unfortunate to say, but this baby probably would have succmbed to his heart condition eventually anyway (unless it was picked up and medically treated before getting to that stage).

Still tragic though.

[Milliner]

Maybe this should be moved to the discussion section.

[forbetoel]

HOw sad, the poor parents. I am sure that there was some underlying cause.

[onemummmy]

I think people who do circumcise are immediately going 2 say things like 'it didnt cause the heart attack, the baby probably had an underlying conditon'

how sad 4 the parents, RIP baby:angel:

[forbetoel]

I think people who do circumcise are immediately going 2 say things like 'it didnt cause the heart attack, the baby probably had an underlying conditon'



Ummm...well I said exactly that, and I wouldn't circ my boys for a million bucks. Just because I am against routine circ doesn't mean that I am quick to use this story as reason #126 not to circ.

[onemummmy]

sorry didnt see ur post I think u posted just before me

[forbetoel]

Thats cool :)

[icugal]

I think people who do circumcise are immediately going 2 say things like 'it didnt cause the heart attack, the baby probably had an underlying conditon'


For the record... my son isn't circumcised. I'm also currently pregnant with my second son and he will not be circumcised either.

But I do work in Coronary Care (and ICU) so I have a little bit of knowledge in this area (I definately do not claim to be an expert though).

[Shanaynay]

There is a 50% increase over the baseline in heart rate in males undergoing the procedure, and an increase in level of blood cortisol by a factor of three or more times has been recorded.

That's enough for me to say 'this is another reason not to'. (sorry I didn't make sense, I mean that with that knowledge it just seems more likely that the heart attack and the procedure are linked)
Poor little dude :(

[onemummmy]

For the record... my son isn't circumcised. I'm also currently pregnant with my second son and he will not be circumcised either.

But I do work in Coronary Care (and ICU) so I have a little bit of knowledge in this area (I definately do not claim to be an expert though).


I didnt mean anyone who has said this is a circumciser, I just meant I think circumcisers are more likely 2 blame anything but circumcision..make sense? just my humble opinion LOL sorry 2 confuse.

[Kachow]

My nephew was circumcised when he was ..... cant remember how many days old. Anyway the doc didn't weight him to see how much anesthetic he should of administered.he was given to much and as a result my nephew suffered a heart attack and was clinical dead for 1 min. He was on life support for 7 days, and my sister and her DH had to face weather or not to turn off the machine.

30 mins before the decision need to be made he started breathing by himself and within 3 days was off life support. Now he is a healthy 10 yr old.

After that day i vowed NEVER to circumcise my sons.

[Bewitched]

I thought traditionally they gave them a rag soaked in wine to suck during the bris?

They give infants wine soaked rags to suck on? :eek: This whole procedure is sounding worse by the minute :(

RIP lil bub :angel:

[Shanaynay]

They give infants wine soaked rags to suck on? :eek: This whole procedure is sounding worse by the minute :(

RIP lil bub :angel:

They don't do that. Probably in biblical times they did. Maybe also in areas with no medical facilities.

[Bewitched]

They don't do that. Probably in biblical times they did. Maybe also in areas with no medical facilities.

Thank heavens!!

[onemummmy]

phineas u are a fast editer!!

[naiwen]

Actually it is still a very common practice to give the infant a cloth soaked in wine as he only anasthetic at a Bris,



The naming complete, the doctor began the circumcision. First, he solicited the help of a man from the group and instructed him to hold the boy's legs apart and down so they would be out of the way. Another man was asked to hold the boys arms still. The doctor then applied two surgical clamps to either side of the foreskin. It must have hurt a little, because the boy began to cry. From this point forward, they had difficulty keeping the wine soaked guaze in the boy's mouth and had to keep tucking it back in.

Extracted from http://www.circlist.com/rites/bris.html

[Shanaynay]

Actually it is still a very common practice to give the infant a cloth soaked in wine as he only anasthetic at a Bris,


Extracted from http://www.circlist.com/rites/bris.html
Really? Eeek! I stand corrected :confused:

[ThisIsLiving]

Oh my goodness that is terrible beyond words. How extremely sad and loss of a precious infant's life so unnecessarily.

Oh poor poor little mite.

I feel so sad right now. Lots of prayers for you sweet angel. Rest in peace precious boy. :angel:

I hope parents, doctors, everyone really learns from this - routine circ on our innocent infant sons should be outlawed.

[Bewitched]

"The naming complete, the doctor began the circumcision. First, he solicited the help of a man from the group and instructed him to hold the boy's legs apart and down so they would be out of the way. Another man was asked to hold the boys arms still. The doctor then applied two surgical clamps to either side of the foreskin. It must have hurt a little, because the boy began to cry. From this point forward, they had difficulty keeping the wine soaked guaze in the boy's mouth and had to keep tucking it back in."

It all just sounds so ******** :crying:

[the_queen]

Before they used surgical clamps, the mohel used to use his teeth.




I wish I was kidding :( :( :( :(

[sam's mum]

Before they used surgical clamps, the mohel used to use his teeth.




I wish I was kidding :( :( :( :(

it was only two years ago that a baby in America died because he caught herpes off the mohel.


Rabbi probed for circumcised infants' herpes
Baby died from disease after undergoing procedure
MSNBC staff and news service reports
updated 11:50 a.m. ET Feb. 2, 2005
Under Jewish law, a mohel — someone who performs circumcisions — draws blood from the circumcision wound. Most mohels do it by hand with a suction device, but Fischer uses a practice rare outside strict Orthodox groups where he uses his mouth to draw blood after cutting the foreskin.

[forbetoel]

Before they used surgical clamps, the mohel used to use his teeth.




I wish I was kidding :(:(

:no::barf::crying::mad:

[charlen49]

Before they used surgical clamps, the mohel used to use his teeth.




I wish I was kidding :( :( :( :(they still, actually ive seen it done to animals such as sheep and bulls

[xkwzit]

I think this thread is digressing a bit...let's stick to the OP.

Cheers

[wendyangel]

to chicky2lala:no:
im sad to haer that your baby boy died.
i have 6 sons and did not get any of them circumcisioned i just decided to leave them the way they were made!:wave:

[serendipity22]

I saw an article somewhere that presented evidence that baby boys sometimes experienced a mild heart attack during circumcision (though not detected at the time).

The fatal heart attack might be the tip of the iceberg.

[Fuchsia!]

reading this thread, (even though its old) Is making me feel incredibly sick and angry

[Pax]

I have always supported choice for parents in this issue..

I think i am swaying to being against it though..

this is exceptionally sad :crying:

[veve]

I think this thread has run its course (considering the age of the thread)

thanks to all who contributed..

Jenny