View Full Version : I think this is DISGUSTING (possibly distressing)
Loopy Linda
10-03-2008, 20:18
Ok i seen this article in UK telegraph and honestly i am disgusted.
here is link http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/main.jhtml?xml=/health/2008/03/10/hjulia110.xml
i feel sorry for the mother and i can sympathise that giving up her child to another as the best thing for the child. i realise that the biological mother could not cope with this special child.
i think how this story is told is disgusting. i am glad that Imogen will never be able to understand how much her mother did not want her. but mostly i am disgusted that with this attitude she has written a book and will profit from this experience!
i am still shocked at how much these parents despised their imperfect child and the steps they nearly took, but more shocked that the newspaper is actually publishing the facts.
what is there is another family in their situation who reads the first few paragraphs and think thats the answer!
maybe i have taken this the wrong way but i am disgusted and wanted to see how others felt about this
:confused: I can't understand how they would actually thing giving people 'ideas' on how to kill their children is even allowed in print!
They could just as easily have said: "at times one or both parents entertained thoughts of ending her life"
rather than a word by word written documentation of their discourse...
It's worrying... I hope they don't see a rise in 'cot deaths' of children with severe disabilities.
onemummmy
10-03-2008, 20:30
u can tell if someone has been suffocated though. The article is over the top graphic.
Loopy Linda
10-03-2008, 20:31
ojandme this was along the lines i was thinking.
onemummy exactly too graphic, i think the shock value of it may have been a bit of a promotional thing for book.
all i can say is i am disgusted
mischief79
10-03-2008, 20:34
The first few paragraphs absolutely floored me. It was harder to take the rest in because I just kept thinking back to what they wanted to do to her.
I don't know what to say. I haven't been in the situation they were in to understand the stresses, but why on earth would you want to go to that extreme? How could you? That's murder.
Hopefully the UK government will pick up on this and improve their policies to help families who have dependant disabled children in their care.
Cordelia
10-03-2008, 20:34
I feel quite shocked.
I think everyone would agree that there is other help and support other than validating killing your child.. i'm probably missing the point. Surely, right?
I'm glad that poor little girl is with a family who loves her. It makes me feel sick to my stomach that her own mother would want to be so violent with her... and now she's making money from it.
Tam-I-Am
10-03-2008, 20:38
I'm sorry, but I don't agree. I have had thoughts about hurting my child at times when I was in deep despair, and in the throws of deep PND. I'm so glad that there are women and men out there who are brave enough to consider putting such controversial and badly-thought-of (by society at large) thoughts into written print. I don't think that the story was told graphically, or was OTT - I think that it was told in a very heart-felt way. These people clearly love their daughter and were pushed to absolute breaking point - I can appreciate that, I've been there myself. And my child isn't even disabled.
I think that what's disgusting is that families are left with so few resources, so few coping mechanisms, so few outlets, so few places for help, that they feel driven to this kind of feeling.
I hope never to be as harshly judged as this family was :(
Loopy Linda
10-03-2008, 20:38
cordelia i am with you, surely i am missing the point!
I am not so disgusted more saddened by this story...
I think it has been put so bluntly so people out there can benefit from the story, and hopefully it will help someone. I think maybe details could've been left for people to read the book and more along the lines of OJ's idea...
There is a huge difference between thinking something completely irrational when you are physically, emotionally and mentally drained and then acting on that thought. Having suffered from PND and having fought depression most of my life I completely understand irrational thoughts and how damaging they can be. Some of the thoughts I had make me feel sick. Until someone is in that situation one can't say how they would react.
I'm just so glad that the little girl is now in a safe and happy environment, and both 'parts' of the family are functioning well. What a horrible decision for that family to have to make. I don't envy them one bit. :no:
Loopy Linda
10-03-2008, 20:41
tam i am i do understand that parents could feel this way about a child ( a little anyway) i am not wanting to judge on those feelings. more on the actual writing of this article. but i still disagree that they will profit from this book, it just feels wrong to me.
Tam-I-Am
10-03-2008, 20:44
But how do you know that they won't be donating all the profits to a) their little girl's care or b) to some sort of charitable organisation that helps families with similar issues?
I think that just by bringing such a horrible issue to the attention of the world, they are doing a community service - I know I couldn't be brave enough to write down everything that I thought and felt in the depths of depression.
I think hasty judgements have been made on little-to-no-evidence. All I'm saying is, we don't know the facts about that aspect of it (the profits, I mean), so maybe we shouldn't be judging.
Mum&bubs
10-03-2008, 20:45
Such a sad story and probably the most hardest decision that family has ever made. I pray that I will never have to go through what they did.
The first few paragraphs were hard to take it and shocked me quite a bit, I didn't need to know or want to know how they could have killed their child, far too graphic details IMO.
I feel for the poor little girl :(
Loopy Linda
10-03-2008, 20:47
tam i am maybe you got the point of the story more than i. and i do hope these profits will go to better services, i have jumped to conclusions.
mumofcuties
10-03-2008, 20:48
oh my god!!!!! that would have to be one of the most discusting things that i have ever read, why does that woman think that she would be helping other mothers with that book all she is doing is telling people how uncaring she was for her daughter that was born not as perfect as she would have liked, its lucky that she is now with someone that truely loves her and cares for her and someone that would never think of ending her life just so they can make their own better. :no:
FishFace
10-03-2008, 20:53
I am amazed..
at her strength to come out and talk about it honestly.
I have not had these thoughts but I know plenty of women do.
The more it becomes spoken about the more you open up communication.
Women going through the same might read that and think..there is help. I can ask for it.
mum_inlove
10-03-2008, 20:53
:hissy: I feel so sorry for the little girl..
I don't think that she is uncaring at all, she was heart broken by her daughters situation, she felt horrible, I think the decision she made was probably the most caring, loving thing she could've done.
Realising that she could not do it and asking for that help to 'help her child' is the most selfless thing she has done IMO. What would've happened if she had of continued with that struggle? IMO they all would've been a h*ll of a lot worse off.
She didn't do it for her, she did it for everyone involved, including her husband her daughter and her other children...
No PND is not the only reason for children being hurt or abandoned, but I hardly think people use PND as an excuse. I'm actually quite offended by that remark.
It is not easy to make a call or ask for help, especially when the signs can be ignored. It is definitely not an easy thing to go through and there isn't a great deal of help available out there at all. I know from experience.
This lady asked for help, she admitted she needed help, she did what she thought was best for her child AND her family.
InSaneOne
10-03-2008, 21:29
I'm sorry, but I don't agree. I have had thoughts about hurting my child at times when I was in deep despair, and in the throws of deep PND. I'm so glad that there are women and men out there who are brave enough to consider putting such controversial and badly-thought-of (by society at large) thoughts into written print. I don't think that the story was told graphically, or was OTT - I think that it was told in a very heart-felt way. These people clearly love their daughter and were pushed to absolute breaking point - I can appreciate that, I've been there myself. And my child isn't even disabled.
I think that what's disgusting is that families are left with so few resources, so few coping mechanisms, so few outlets, so few places for help, that they feel driven to this kind of feeling.
I hope never to be as harshly judged as this family was :(
I am not so disgusted more saddened by this story...
I think it has been put so bluntly so people out there can benefit from the story, and hopefully it will help someone. I think maybe details could've been left for people to read the book and more along the lines of OJ's idea...
There is a huge difference between thinking something completely irrational when you are physically, emotionally and mentally drained and then acting on that thought. Having suffered from PND and having fought depression most of my life I completely understand irrational thoughts and how damaging they can be. Some of the thoughts I had make me feel sick. Until someone is in that situation one can't say how they would react.
I'm just so glad that the little girl is now in a safe and happy environment, and both 'parts' of the family are functioning well. What a horrible decision for that family to have to make. I don't envy them one bit. :no:
:iagree: with both of these posters. i must have been a hard decision for the parents to make and at least they still see their daughter and obviously love her very much. i have had moments myself where i needed to give myself a timeout from my dd and she is healthy. i am glad she had the courage to speak out and tell people how she felt and what prompted their difficult decision.
Cordelia
10-03-2008, 21:29
I dont think her issue is PND... in fact she says she couldnt get help with that. The problem was her daughter. i have suffered from PND and have had some absolutely shocking, terrible thoughts. That's not the debate. The argument is why the Schwarznegger is she writing a book about giving away her disabled daughter who she clearly doesnt' think deserved to be recussitated at birth. Her argument is not about PND.. its' about the right for newborns to be recussitated.
** I have tried every combination of letters for "recussitated" and I know I still dont have it right.
This is appaling IMO, just because her daughter screamed and took a long time to feed her AND her husband wanted to kill her!!! I mean come on, I have PND and a child with special needs who had acid reflux and therefore screamed constanlty but to want to kill him or just give him away. Never I am his mother, for me this is about not being able to accept a child that is not perfect. It sounds to me like they wanted their two 'normal' children and now they've got them. Oh and they are profiting over it.
If the foster mum can cope with two special children how come they couldn't make some sacrifices to their middle class life style and devote themselves to their special child.
The thing that was apparant to me in this story was the total lack of support for them. They definately didn't receive any help or attention to adequately care for their DD, they could have been another arrangement made, maybe more respite care to give them a break, not a permanant break. They also sound like they need counselling to deal with the trauma of her birth as it sounds to me that she may have been fine if it wasn't for the problems during labour (the lack of oxygen to the baby) seems to have done the most damage. I have witnessed being around people who have had a hypoxic brain injury and they are permanant vegetables. Could you imagine the horror of knowing your child would never walk, talk and be permanantely cared for 24/7 into adulthood??? I have seen many young adults who need this type of care due to DH having to be in a rehab hospital with other Brain injured people. The results are absolutely distressing to say the least. I have also survived PND and my child was absolutely healthy, he was difficult, but he didn't have anything medically wrong with him.
I am appalled at the lack of compassion these people seem to deserve, i think the article was written quite flippantly and maybe their anguish and heartache wasn't portrayed as openly to some. I just saw it as a blunt account of what happened and how they felt, very raw but very real. I think it's good that they are sharing their story to highlight the importance of support services to others. I can understand their feelings in a way too, when i hear of people surviving car accidents with severe head injuries etc etc, i think to myself poor family, they probably would have been better off dead. This is coming from my own account and experience of seeing what life is like after a horrific accident and the affect it has on familes, and in some cases i think people think the exact same thing and it is not often talked about.
Tam-I-Am
10-03-2008, 21:47
I'm not saying she had PND - I'm saying that when I had PND I had thoughts about harming MY child - and there was nothing even wrong with my child. She certainly wasn't brain dead. I can't even BEGIN to imagine the pain, heartache, stress and torture this family went through, having a child with such severe, debilitating and life-long issues.
I think that people are forgetting the one of the BIG problems when you are going through something entirely traumatic, especially with your own child, is that it is very isolating. To simply know that there are other parents in the world who have felt as you do, and got through them in some form or fashion, is comforting. So yes, I think that she might actually have thought that she was doing some good by publishing the book.
I also think that until you've walked a mile in somebody else's shoes, you can't POSSIBLY know how they feel. I chose to believe that this family loved their little girl SO MUCH that they would have prefered the heartbreak of not having her in their lives, to her living with no quality of life at all. I certainly know that my DH felt this way about his father right at the end of a terminal illness when he was losing all his faculties - what's the difference?
I think that it would take an incredibly selfless person to realise that they could no longer provide the necessary care for their child - and let them go. I don't know that I would ever have the strength to do so.
And I reiterate - we have NO IDEA what this woman is doing with the profits from the book. She may be donating them. She may be using them to help other children. She may be using them to help her OWN child. We DO NOT KNOW.
TBH - I'm constantly amazed at the kinds of judgements we're so willing to throw around a) without knowing all the facts and b) without having ANY idea about the issues involved in a case.
I have lived through the isolation lack of respite care and anguish that comes with a special needs child and yes I still judge these people. Because even when I was told that my child might be deaf or blind I never turned my back on him and I never would. Even if I had to sacrifice my marriage for him I would do it. I find the concept of giving up on your special child abhorrant particually as I have one and know many others who do. The mothers who get my sympathy are the ones that stick with their child no matter what, and I know many of them.
forbetoel
10-03-2008, 21:56
What ever the reasons behind the thoughts of the parents, I feel sorry for the poor child. No child should have his/her parents disscussing ways in which to kill him/her.
I am sure that the parents were under a lot of stain, but to talk of killing your child as though it is some sort of high maintenance pet is a little too sick and twisted for my liking.
What ever the reasons behind the the thoughts of the parents, I feel sorry for the poor child. No child should have his/her parents disscussing ways in whch to kill him/her. I am sure that the parents were under a lot of stain, but to talk of killing your child as though it is some sort of high maintenance pet i a little too sick and twisted for my liking.
:iagree: And then to have those conversations published in a PUBLIC paper...
:iagree: ^^^100% :yelclap: Very well said both Tam and V8.
PND is not the issue, but I also referenced it to my story where I had horrible thoughts (referenced in earlier posts) which were completely irrational and would've horrified some, and my daughter was also 'perfect' I always received comments about how lucky I was to have such an 'easy baby'.
We don't know all the intimate details, we have snippets from a book and an article that the media has moulded into what they want portrayed to gain more exposure. It all comes down to the $ with them, and unfortunately stories like this make more money than happy ones.
Tam-I-Am
10-03-2008, 22:01
I wish to point out that the little girl in this article was essentially brain dead. She had no intelligence - no ability to learn, to adapt. No ability to communicate, to respond to her parents. No ability to recognise them as they walked in the room. No chance of learning how to walk, or talk, or toilet, or feed herself. No chance of anything resembling a 'normal' life - nor even a severely disabled life.
If we were talking about a family who's 20 year old son had been in a car accident and had been left as above - essentially in a severe vegetative state - and that family decided to turn off his life support, I doubt that there would be ANY debate. But because we're talking about a 2 year old child, the idea that her parents would prefer her to be dead than have no quality of life is somehow abhorrent to us.
I also doubt that if said hypothetical family as in my example above were to write a book about their experiences - that they would be persecuted in the same way that this family has.
forbetoel
10-03-2008, 22:01
I would also like to add that I see nothing corageous about them giving away their child instead of killing it.
The reason they didn't kill this child appears to be because they actually love and want to keep thier 'normal' 2 year old child.
I have lived through the isolation lack of respite care and anguish that comes with a special needs child and yes I still judge these people. Because even when I was told that my child might be deaf or blind I never turned my back on him and I never would. Even if I had to sacrifice my marriage for him I would do it. I find the concept of giving up on your special child abhorrant particually as I have one and know many others who do. The mothers who get my sympathy are the ones that stick with their child no matter what, and I know many of them.
I think that is fabulous what you do and how you care for your child with special needs, but does that mean that you can't empathise with others in similar situations?
They very nearly could have killed their child, yet they have made a decision to put her somewhere she is safe and happier. I hear horrid stories every day on the news of mothers not coping and harming their child, would they not have been better off in another family where they would be cared for adequately rather than abused/neglected or killed in a parents home.
I don't think there is any reason to judge someone so harshly when we have no idea of their day to day life, just a short news article. I am a full-time carer of an adult and it's not fun for him or I most of the time, but we get by because we love eachother, i didn't abandon him when he had an accident and our lives changed and he became disabled, but many people saw my situation and said that there's no way that they would cope and would have left him. So i'm just trying to point out there are so many situations that's easy to judge on the outside, but until you are in it, you don't know how hard it is. Give this poor woman a break.
I don't think the OP was saying anything about the terrible strain that the parents were under, or even the descisions they made..
I think it was more about the actual WORDING of the snippet in a public paper...
To commence an article with "cot death is no different to suffocation" and then to continue on later in the piece "we could do it together..."
Having THOSE specific phrases made available to public reading... not even those who choose to read the book...
I think the concern is that people who are NOT so stable, determined to make a better descision, might take those quotes and put them into use....
Nothing to do with PND... just to do with wording and the consequences of 'could be' copycats.... people with or without children with disabilities.
The poor poor child Im glad she is in care and safe with a foster mother that loves her and is going to care for her
YEs the mum was having a hard time i get that i understand that been there got the Tshirt still wearing it BUT to think about dong that to your child is monsterous and discusting yes the mum was sufering and mourning for the perfect child she lost when her DD was born that has special needs but what about the child she was sufering a helll of a lot more
I realy should notof read this post tonight, tonight of all nights
Discusting horrible women
Ana Gram
10-03-2008, 22:09
I actually applaud this women. Most of you have NO idea how difficult it is to be open and honest about feelings you may have about motherhood or your child if they are not within the realms of society's vision of a mother.
forbetoel
10-03-2008, 22:11
Chelle, I don't think that is true. I would not want to kill my child under any circumstances. I love being a mother, I get that it is not your thing, but I am sickened that someone would want to kill thier own child. It is certainly not me trying to hide any of my feelings.
I wish to point out that the little girl in this article was essentially brain dead. She had no intelligence - no ability to learn, to adapt. No ability to communicate, to respond to her parents. No ability to recognise them as they walked in the room. No chance of learning how to walk, or talk, or toilet, or feed herself. No chance of anything resembling a 'normal' life - nor even a severely disabled life.
If we were talking about a family who's 20 year old son had been in a car accident and had been left as above - essentially in a severe vegetative state - and that family decided to turn off his life support, I doubt that there would be ANY debate. But because we're talking about a 2 year old child, the idea that her parents would prefer her to be dead than have no quality of life is somehow abhorrent to us.
I also doubt that if said hypothetical family as in my example above were to write a book about their experiences - that they would be persecuted in the same way that this family has.
:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:
I totally agree with that and was trying to outline a similar scenario with my post. :)
This is again another discussion that comes down to quality of life, this poor little girl is as Tam said 'brain dead'. This poor family had to make probably the hardest decisions of their lives and they are being judged so incredibly harshly. What life could they have provided for their other children with all their time consumed with a child with such severe special needs? Don't get me wrong I admire all of those women out there who can manage, I don't know if I could, but this woman, and her husband clearly couldn't so they did what they thought was best. They still visit her, and although it is only once a week it is probably heart breaking for them every time.
The book is being published in hopes of preventing incidents of children being abused or killed. Letting people know that there are other options, that they don't have to do it alone, there are services, such as respite, available to help.
I really feel for this woman and her family, and also the little girl who has to live the life she has been given.
I think Chelle is pointing out that what these parents felt may be only felt by a small small minority of people in the community, but oh no because it's not within societies scope to hear about such awful truths, people do not generally open up about these issues. I'm sure if we were able to talk openly and honestly about some of these particular issues it would go a long way towards healing and support from others in the community rather than condemnation and disgust. How about turning your thoughts into empathetic ones and being more compassionate to others who feel differently to you.
To me, i find it fascinating and i am always open to others feelings etc, as they are THEIR feelings, they should be acknowledged and warranted, not just ridiculed and judged, no wonder people don't speak out when they need help and then seek dire actions to their problems......
This child was NOT brain dead, I have seen brain dead children in PICU and they are on vents life support. She was at home and able to cry and even feed orally. More than many can do.
the term brain dead is being used very loosely in this post, if the little girl was brain dead she would be in the hospital on ventaltor and would get her wings shortly after being extubated, this child was at home and breathing so NOT brain dead
forbetoel
10-03-2008, 22:18
V8, yes I agree, there may be other parents who feel this way, and I am not denying that, but just because others may relate doesn't make it right or acceptable. No parents should be thinking of ways in which to kill thier own child.
Ana Gram
10-03-2008, 22:19
Chelle, I don't think that is true. I would not want to kill my child under any circumstances. I love being a mother, I get that it is not your thing, but I am sickened that someone would want to kill their own child. It is certainly not me trying to hide any of my feelings.
Being someone who loves motherhood, you have trouble understanding people who don't. And it isn't just you, it is ingrained in our society, this image of mothers. For instance, a mother who gives up custody of her child, the majority's first thoughts are that she is heartless and selfish, how could a mother give up her child etc.
Tam-I-Am
10-03-2008, 22:21
To quote from the article: (bolded bits are my own add-ons)
Antidepressants made little impact on their despair as the news about Imogen became worse. First they learnt that she would never walk or talk. Then they were told she had microcephaly: an unusually small head reflecting a reduction in brain size, which results in problems in brain function ranging from mild to severe. When she was five months old, they were shown a brain scan. There was a black area where Imogen's cerebral cortex should be.
"Strictly speaking, she has no intelligence," said the consultant. The abruption (coming adrift) of the placenta at birth had deprived her brain of oxygen. The "insult" to her brain had caused it to atrophy. There was no hope she would ever know her parents, though she might live to be 20.No intelligence MEANS no capacity to learn. A severe vegetative state does not = brain dead, you're right - but it means absolutely no capacity to learn, to interact, to communicate, to respond, to do ANYTHING.
V8, yes I agree, there may be other parents who feel this way, and I am not denying that, but just because others may relate doesn't make it right or acceptable. No parents should be thinking of ways in which to kill thier own child.
Whether or not they 'should' feel a certain way doesn't negate the fact that they DID feel that way - and that there was next to NO support for them.
forbetoel
10-03-2008, 22:23
Being someone who loves motherhood, you have trouble understanding people who don't. And it isn't just you, it is ingrained in our society, this image of mothers. For instance, a mother who gives up custody of her child, the majority's first thoughts are that she is heartless and selfish, how could a mother give up her child etc.
No, that is not true. I understand that some people don't like being a mother. I don't think that all woman are cut out for being a mother and that their skills may be better suited to contibuting to society in other ways.
This isn't about me not understanding how someone could not like motherhood because this woman apparently wanted to keep her 2 year old, but just wanted to kill her other one.
Lots of woman may not love being a mum, but they don't think of ways in which to dispose of the burden.
To quote from the article: (bolded bits are my own add-ons)
No intelligence MEANS no capacity to learn. A severe vegetative state does not = brain dead, you're right - but it means absolutely no capacity to learn, to interact, to communicate, to respond, to do ANYTHING.
yes i realise that this child has no intalligence and I know what i means, Im not disputing that I am disputing the loose wayu the term brain dead is used to discribe a child that is breathing and wel enough to be home
Im not saying that the mum was not having a tough time I realise that i have sent enough time on the wards to know that, and know the heart ache she was going through, but she is stil a mum
I comend her on putting her child up for fostering i beleive with the nasty thought going through her head it was the best option I just cant understand that she could consider doing that to her helpless baby, and im sory but i can symperthise either
:iagree: she was obviously quite happy being a mother before her 'imperfect' child was born.
forbetoel
10-03-2008, 22:27
Whether or not they 'should' feel a certain way doesn't negate the fact that they DID feel that way - and that there was next to NO support for them.
I understand that, I really do. Yes they should have had more support, and I understand that they did feel that way, I am not arguing that point. Just saying that I don't feel sorry for the parents, only the child. We are talking about a child, sure it would be hard for the parents, but I can't look past the needs of a child and the fact that they were willing to kill her as if she were nothing.
Again, i'll just agree with Tam-I-Am.
The thing is you may not understand how someone can feel like that, but that doesn't mean that they are wrong to feel like that.
On the news tonight a woman was charged with manslaughter cause her 17 week old baby was left unattended in the bath. She may not have even thought for 1 min and in that 1 minute she lost her child and probably will feel guilty for the rest of her life. Bad things happen all the time, and in this case i feel the child was actually saved and put into better care, and the circumstances that led to the baby being put into care was from the parent's own doing.
I have a cousin who has some rare condition and her parents had no idea how to deal with her and the abuse the poor child suffered was horrendous, but from lack of support, they didn't know any other way, now my cousin has been in respite care for her whole adult life as she is unable to care for herself. We were glad she went into care as it was more stable for her than being in her own parents home. There are just so many different aspects and dynamics to people and what they can and cannot deal with, i just feel that judging does bugger all, support and compassion could go a long long way.
forbetoel
10-03-2008, 22:31
The thing is you may not understand how someone can feel like that, but that doesn't mean that they are wrong to feel like that.
.
Well in my books it is certainly not right to want to kill your own child.........
I agree again! It's never ok to want to kill or abuse a child whether they have special needs or not and my sympathy is reserved for the child. If people say they want to sexually abuse a child we dont applaud them for that do we.
Tam-I-Am
10-03-2008, 22:35
Have you never, ever had an irrational thought that you didn't carry through with? I know I have. They DIDN'T kill their child - they didn't harm their child. They did the best that they could, and they eventually admitted to themselves that their best was not good enough, and so they made sure that their little girl GOT the best that they could provide for her.
They thought irrational thoughts, and GOD FORBID - they actually published those thoughts BECAUSE so many other people have them. And blame themselves, and punish themselves, and beat themselves up for an eternity.
I don't think that its 'right' that people think a LOT of things that they do - but thoughts are only that. THOUGHTS. They are not acts. We are persecuting this family as though they acted on those thoughts. In which case - put me in jail now, because I've certainly thought a LOT of illegal things in my time.
I understand that, I really do. Yes they should have had more support, and I understand that they did feel that way, I am not arguing that point. Just saying that I don't feel sorry for the parents, only the child. We are talking about a child, sure it would be hard for the parents, but I can't look past the needs of a child and the fact that they were willing to kill her as if she were nothing.
you are assuming ... that they were doing it only for themselves.. purely for selfish reasons ..
From my perspective,... I can see them viewing their own child with a huge range of grief based emotions ..especially as her injuries occured during the birth process - I know that I would be blaming myself ...
To me .. as parents they would have beeing thinking of her quality of life .. and whether she would have one... they would have been thinking of future pain she would be in .. seizures, operations .. what she would do - for the next 20 years ..
Many many mothers who have children WITHOUT impairments, think icky thoughts about their child.. mostly a fleeting silly thought when the child wont stop screaming at 3am .. heck .. the news is filled with mums who DO those horrid thoughts .. and regret them later ..
I Think lots of people are judging this lady VERY harshly .. when she has been open and honest about a very traumatic time in her life .. you can not POSSIBLY state what you would do in her situation .. I am absolutely not condoning what she and her husband discussed .. but I really think we need to be careful how we judge others.. when they are in a completely different situation.. no two parents or children are the same ..
xx
Jen
I don't believe that the parents WANTED to kill their child, they had thoughts of it, just as I know a lot of other people in desperate situations have just as disturbing thoughts.
As a foster carer myself I would rather that a parent willingly place their child in care when they get to the point that they can't cope, it is in the best interest of the child and that is the most important thing here
I have seen first hand and had kids living with me that were forcibly removed from their parents because the parents didn't know how to ask for help or were afraid they would have been judged if they did, and trust me...when it gets to that point, you, me, ANYONE, would rather that they reached out for help sooner!
the only thing that struck me about the article (other than as a PP said it was real, raw and a very moving account of a grieving parent) was that it possibly should have said at the start that it was actually a story of hope
I think that someone who has been in such a situation to write a book is a great thing... if it helps just one other parent in a similar situation to reach out for help it is worth it... and I don't believe the issue of any profits made by the author to be relevant
I feel sad that these things happen in this world, and that not every person is built to cope with such a situation.. do you think there is anything that YOU couldn't cope with, your worst nightmare? does that make you a bad human being?
forbetoel
10-03-2008, 22:39
Have you never, ever had an irrational thought that you didn't carry through with? I know I have..
Yes I have. I have thought about turning around and slapping my toddler when he was having a hissy fit on more than one occassion.
It was a split second thought and I didn't discuss whether or not I should carry through with it with my DH.
But thinking about slapping your child and actually talking about ways in which to kill your child are two different things.
The 'thoughts' they had of 'killing their child', were just that, 'thoughts', completely irrational ones at that, which they no doubt realised as the child is still alive today. I know of many mothers, myself included, who have had those split second thoughts in the middle of the night when you've had no sleep for days and are completely and utterly exhausted. This family obviously went through hell, and they gave it their best from what I can gather.
If they really had of been the monsters that they are being made out to be do you really think that poor little girl would still be alive today? Surely if they were that awful to her she would've displayed signs of abuse, but she hasn't. The only thing they have done 'wrong' is to give their child to someone who was better equipped to love and care for her because they knew that they couldn't cope.
I just don't comprehend how she can be judged so harshly for doing what she thought was ultimately best.
Well in my books it is certainly not right to want to kill your own child.........
They FELT like killing their child, they did not actually go through with it, so therefore they must have acknowledged somewhere along the line that thinking that is not right and then sought whatever help was available. If perhaps they had of received some sort of support or help before it got this bad, maybe they wouldn't be where they are now, maybe they could have cared for their daughter. I just think it's hard to paint such a bleak picture of people when we have no idea about the in's and out's of their life.
The 'thoughts' they had of 'killing their child', were just that, 'thoughts', completely irrational ones at that, which they no doubt realised as the child is still alive today. I know of many mothers, myself included, who have had those split second thoughts in the middle of the night when you've had no sleep for days and are completely and utterly exhausted. This family obviously went through hell, and they gave it their best from what I can gather.
If they really had of been the monsters that they are being made out to be do you really think that poor little girl would still be alive today? Surely if they were that awful to her she would've displayed signs of abuse, but she hasn't. The only thing they have done 'wrong' is to give their child to someone who was better equipped to love and care for her because they knew that they couldn't cope.
I just don't comprehend how she can be judged so harshly for doing what she thought was ultimately best.
beautifully said ..
xx
Jen
forbetoel
10-03-2008, 22:41
TamIam, yes it is great she is being honest, but I think that it is quite normal of a lot us to be horrified at the thought of a mother actually discussing killing her child. We are not talking about a crazy thought in the depths of dispair, it was much more than a passing thought.
But thinking about slapping your child and actually talking about ways in which to kill your child are two different things.
And looking it up on Google.....
Yes I have. I have thought about turning around and slapping my toddler when he was having a hissy fit on more than one occassion.
I seriously dont think you are thinking about the mental and physical state these parents were in .. this isn't about a hissy fit .. this is about a LIFE LONG DISABILITY .. and a family affected by it .. how can you compare the two???
xx
JEn
SilverStarfish
10-03-2008, 22:59
This thread has been discussed by the moderation team and it has been decided that it will remain closed.
While I understand that many of you feel very passionately about the news article, there have been some extremely negative and judgemental posts - some of which are overwhelmingly offensive to our many members who have been affected by PND.
I'd also like to take this opportunity to gently remind everyone that as members of the BH community you all agreed to abide by the rules and terms of usage when you signed up. This includes:
The owners of The Bub Hub Community Forum reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.
The Mods thank you for your understanding. Have a nice evening :goodvibes:
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