View Full Version : School meetings during working hours...
Question for all you parents who work during and after school hours, how do you get to the meetings for parents that are normally held directly after school, or does your school offer any alternative for working parents?
Does your school offer meetings at a later time, or minutes of the meetings? Or do any do video conferencing/webcasting?
Our school normally gives very little notice of these meetings, eg, note came home on Friday night and they wanted a response by this morning who was attending, and the meeting is this Weds at 3pm. Therefore working parents had no chance to run this past their employers before responding to the school.
My DH made an interesting comment that we are being discriminated against as we both work, and the school offers no alternatives, interesting comment I thought.
BTW, this is not having a go at teachers, as I know many teachers put in extra hours just like any other diligent employees.
missie_mack
10-03-2008, 18:42
Maybe thats something you can raise with your P&F- I mean to give you more notice so you can organise something to be able to attend or to have the meetings agenda/minutes placed on the school website.
I think you will always find it difficult to get meeting at night as most teachers are on salary and dont get overtime. I know all too often my DH has stayed back for evening meetings to find half the parents with appointments forget or dont even turn up
I too am a salary employee, I work many hours that I'm not paid for...Like any good employee, who cares about their job.
Just a thought..
aardvark
10-03-2008, 18:55
Constantly find I can't get to things. Peeves me no end.
They either put them during the day, or so soon after I would collect the kids from after school care that I can't get back to the meetings.
It's been like this for yonks, my eldest is in year 12, and it started in Prep.
missie_mack
10-03-2008, 19:05
I too am a salary employee, I work many hours that I'm not paid for...Like any good employee, who cares about their job.
Just a thought..
If you look at it in that light you have to look at the other in a similar light. So if you cared enough about the meeting you would get there regardless of the time of day :laughing:
But I personally think they should be balanced for both because not everyone can get there during the evening (When Im working I wouldnt be able to) Likewise DH wouldnt be able to attend a day meeting during school hours. If sufficient notice is given people have more ability to move appointments around.
I guess you need to consider that everybody has a life with people waiting at home. I was always peeved with 2 days notice being given to DH for evening meetings at his last school. We lived over a hour away from the school and often had to change long held appointments and that of the like because of the lack of notice
I know the school where I work, it all comes down to the office lady. If she doesn't check her board in time, then the notes get sent out with very little time to be returned. This is only a small school though, and we are a lot more lacksadasical about these things.
Call the school. Is it possible to return the note with a tentative time and then once you have consulted the boss, either call and confirm or call and change? Or can you set up a morning meeting?
Teachers are on salary, so no extra pay for anything, but we do appreciate if the parent will go to the effort to make a meeting, most teachers will make the effort of sticking around a little later than usual.
forbetoel
10-03-2008, 20:17
I know our school tries to include anyone. I am a sahm, and one of the reasons I am is because I really want to be involved in my children's school. We put in a lot of hard work, and we have 80% of our meetings at night, but our Parents and friends commitee is made up of mainly parents who are at home with small children who would rather have extra meetings during the day, as we already have one a month at night.
I don't think that it is about excluding at all, it is just what happens when most of the mothers who run the school commitee are home during the day.
punkbaby
10-03-2008, 20:21
Our schools pretty good, i am lucky as i work pretty much my own hours from home so i can duck up to the school and have a chat if needed or go to meetings in the evenings, but generally they give 10 days notice and most of the time they send out a "what time suits" form and i guess what ever time gets the votes is what time it ends up being.
I'm normally the "office lady" (well, not my official title but - also a very small school - I wear many hats) and I just want to say - Don't blame the admin!! The job is hard enough in the office without people pointing their fingers to say that they're to blame for late notes and other such, so many other office duties (ESPECIALLY in a small school) come up and there are no other people to delegate to! If you need a job done (teachers) do it yourself, type the note up, run it past the principal and send it out yourself.
Ahem.
You need to bring this issue up with your teacher. Most teachers are parents and have families as well and if you KNEW the sacrifices that all school staff make to their family life you'd just grovel at their feet, honestly, educators are worth their weight, if they're in your 'free' hours, they're also in the teacher's free hours.. iykwim.
Perhaps you can ask for notes from the meeting?
WorkingClassMum
10-03-2008, 21:25
.... So if you cared enough about the meeting you would get there regardless of the time of day
Sorry - thats unfair. I do care about my child's education - very very much. But I cannot always just drop work and attend some things.
I recently had to forgo watching my DS get his SRC badge as it was handed out at assembly 3pm Friday afternoon.
As I cared so much about my son, I had already taken him the Friday previous to see an ENT, and needed to take him to a follow up appointment the Friday fortnight.
The employer I work for on Fridays was quite OK about the 2 Dr's appointments but would not have been happy about losing another 3 hours. It would have meant losing 9 hours over 3 weeks - and I only work for them on a Friday.
WorkingClassMum
10-03-2008, 21:31
**sigh** - there's no easy answer is there?
I work full time, and cannot do the reading thing or the sports day stuff, or go on excursions.
If you are teacher - after school hours meeting go with the territory. (I don't think they get paid enough) - but after hours meetings are in their job description.
BTW - I will NOT bow down and grovel at the feet of anyone just for doing their job.
The point of my post was not to have a go at teachers or admin staff, I was interested if other schools attempt to cater for parents who cant attend a meeting, ie hand out minutes or offer video conferencing etc.
I often can get away from work for school meetings, but this one is scheduled to run for 1.5 hours, so a significant amount of time off from work.
BTW, I too will bow down to no one. School teachers are like any other professions, their are very good teachers and also some not so good.
If you look at it in that light you have to look at the other in a similar light. So if you cared enough about the meeting you would get there regardless of the time of day :laughing:
I am hoping this comment was made in jest, as its very unfair. I "choose" to be a working parent, so I can "choose" to pay our mortgage. By "choosing" to work, we are securing our financial future in retirement (paying off a mortgage, paying super, saving for DD tertiary education), therefore will not be a financial burden to my daughter and she will have our home after we are gone, therefore giving her financial security. So yes, that is my "choice".
forbetoel
11-03-2008, 10:03
I don't really think that teachers should have to do have any extra meetings out of work hours. They do enough as is. When you work fulltime, one of the downfalls is that you don't have anytime for school events. I have a friend who works .8 of a week so that she can be at the school also.
A teacher is also doing their fulltime job, and I don't really see it as fair if they are the one's that have to accomodate the best times for parents. If they did, they would never get home to theri own children.
It is all about choices, no one is wrong or right, but different choices allow us all different bonus' and downfalls.
forbetoel
11-03-2008, 10:07
Sorry -
I recently had to forgo watching my DS get his SRC badge as it was handed out at assembly 3pm Friday afternoon.
.
When should they have given it to him? It had to be in school hours. No mother can have it all, I have sacrificed a lot by being at home everyday so that I don't miss anything. Every choice and decision we make as a mother has sacrifices, and while I certainly understand how frustrating it must be, there really isn't much alternative when school hours are between 9 and 3 pm.
forbetoel
11-03-2008, 10:15
Sorry - thats unfair. I do care about my child's education - very very much. But I cannot always just drop work and attend some things.
.
That quote of missiemacks has been taken out of context. She was responding to a quote that said if you cared about your job you would put in the extra hours, so she was just referring it back to motherhood, that other important job. She didn't mean anything nasty by that, it was a good point, that's all.
grovel at feet wasn't the best term... hmm.. perhaps simply sing praises? :)
And sk6, I know you weren't having a go at school staff.. simply venting frustration - one no doubt felt by many. My grievence was more aired towards someone saying something directly about admin staff, sorry if it seemed that I was saying something to you about it.
grovel at feet wasn't the best term... hmm.. perhaps simply sing praises? :)
And sk6, I know you weren't having a go at school staff.. simply venting frustration - one no doubt felt by many. My grievence was more aired towards someone saying something directly about admin staff, sorry if it seemed that I was saying something to you about it.
No offense taken, Seekrit. I think we are all trying to do the right thing for our children. Think my major frustration is the lack of forward thinking. I cant see why parents cant be advised at the start of a term when key meetings will be held, that way, everyone can be organised and have a chance of attending. BTW, my husband really wanted to attend this meeting, and couldn't due to his pre arranged work commitments.
forbetoel
11-03-2008, 10:29
sk6, yes I agree, it would be a lot better if the schools gave better notice. It would mean that working mums and dads could plan ahead with their boss for the time off. I do see your frustration.
missie_mack
11-03-2008, 10:43
Think my major frustration is the lack of forward thinking. I cant see why parents cant be advised at the start of a term when key meetings will be held, that way, everyone can be organised and have a chance of attending.
This is the butt of my own frustrations with DH. Really I think except for things that cant be planned all meetings (like parent teachers etc) should be set out early in the year or at least the term. However many schools really arent all that organised and it affects everyone. I cant tell you how many after school meetings DH has only been given a day or 2 notice on that has upset our plans. So really I can appreciate your frustration and understand it.
And no I wasn't having a go at you. Just showing you the other side of the coin if you wanted to imply teachers who dont stay back dont care enough about their jobs or are poor teachers- which could have be considered offensive too.
And no I wasn't having a go at you. Just showing you the other side of the coin if you wanted to imply teachers who dont stay back dont care enough about their jobs or are poor teachers- which could have be considered offensive too.
missie_mack, Im sorry if I came across the wrong way. Can see the teachers' side of things 100%, especially when teachers stay back and very few parents show up.
I don't know, in todays modern world, there are so many options to "attend" meetings remotely, either through video or voice, maybe schools don't have the IT resources. even placing meeting minutes/ relevant literature on the school website.
Cordelia
11-03-2008, 12:19
If you have kids, you have to make sacrifices - it goes with the job description. Sorry. Teachers are humans as well. We have lives and families.
BTW - meetings outside of school being "part of the job description"? Yes, there are requirements as far as staff meetings and parent-teacher nights but that's as far as it goes. I think most teachers however, are very generous with their time as it is. And, I think yours is an isolated case as I always plan my calender at the start of the year and give plenty of notice. I don't know many teachers who would give you such short notice unless it was an urgent meeting.
I don't know many offices that open at night to conduct work meetings. No one would stand for it. Why should teachers?
forbetoel
11-03-2008, 12:22
sk6...you should be able to get a copy of the minutes from a meeting from the office. I know our minutes are available to everyone. Check with your school.
WorkingClassMum
11-03-2008, 12:27
...
I don't know many offices that open at night to conduct work meetings. No one would stand for it. Why should teachers?...
If you work for an organisation that is run by comittee - all work meetings are after hours - it goes with the territory
I work two days p/w for such an organisation - funnily enough it's a teachers organisation. :raspberry:
grovel at feet wasn't the best term... hmm.. perhaps simply sing praises? :)
And sk6, I know you weren't having a go at school staff.. simply venting frustration - one no doubt felt by many. My grievence was more aired towards someone saying something directly about admin staff, sorry if it seemed that I was saying something to you about it.
I will admit, that was me making the comment. BUT, it was not directed at ALLLLLLLLL admin staff, I was just talking about the one at MY school. We know she has a problem with keeping up with all the work.
I was just mentioning this is the problem at my school, which causes late notice. Sorry, didn't mean to offend!
melbryan
11-03-2008, 13:46
Maybe thats something you can raise with your P&F- I mean to give you more notice so you can organise something to be able to attend or to have the meetings agenda/minutes placed on the school website.
I think you will always find it difficult to get meeting at night as most teachers are on salary and dont get overtime. I know all too often my DH has stayed back for evening meetings to find half the parents with appointments forget or dont even turn up
I agree with this post, Well said. It would be good to raise this with the P&C so they can address it. You'll find school will try and place meetings when the majority of parents can come not when the minority can come. As for the notice thing that is understandable. Most parents can shift things around if the need is there if they ahve the notice.
The thing is schools are not going to make everyone happy all the time, they can cater for most but not all. At our school you can make individual appointments with the teachers when it suits you providing the teachers can stay back or it's in their free periods.
I can see your point of view
I have taught now for 12 years and have stayed after school for many meetings both straight after school and those starting at 6 where you question the point of going home first. With kids this is becoming even more of a struggle.
I stayed back for a meeting last year that involved parents of year 7, 9, 11 students (about 450 students in total) 6 families attended. You can bet we all questioned why we went to the hassle of organising special child care and staying at school for an extra 5 hours without pay. Unfortunately in many schools low attendance at meetings is a reality.
On the other side of the argument it is interesting to think about what reaction I would get if I called a bank, insurance company, accountant etc and asked for a meeting outside of their normal working hours. Haven't had much luck with this myself.
In my experience of schools (and I have now worked in 5) most teachers work 8-5 each day as it is. They have staff meetings often once a week that can go til 6 and twice a year (at least) they have PT interviews which can go til 9pm. Don't get me started on their other commitments (reports, afterschool/Saturday sport, camps, marking etc)! It is a job you do for the love of children and the hope of making a difference, not the money. It certainly isn't a job you do for the appreciation because there is precious little of it - certainly when you are teaching the secondary years.
Most schools try to put out a calendar of events at the beginning of each school year and often it is even printed in the diary. This should contain most meetings. Occasionally meetings do crop up which are not in the calendar of events and generally these are announced through the school newsletter. There are always minutes taken at every school meeting I have ever been to so it is worth looking into that. As far as video conferencing and podcasts it may have not been thought of. I'd suggest it to the school, they may be unsure about how to do this. I have found a lot of information technology illiteracy at schools.
blackdog
10-04-2008, 10:32
Touchy issue!
This comes back to the myth of the 'supermom' who can 'have it all'. Well, we just can't.
If you are going to work full-time, then you are not going to be able to make it to all school events, and if you choose not to do paid work so you can be fully involved in the school then you will miss out on the benefits of a higher family income. That's just how it is.
Last year the school sportsday was cancelled due to rain and run the next day instead. Many working parents had taken the day off work, and of course could not change it at such short notice. That's life. The kids were disappointed, but don't we have to learn to deal with disappointment, too?
I agree with the comment (several pages back) that for alot of the meetings run by Committees of the P&C....who work unpaid, that daytime is more convenient. The P&C meetings at my school are held at 6.30pm, which I can't attend because that is my 6 year old's bedtime, but I get the minutes emailed to me by the secretary.
The fundraising committee I am on meets on the weekend, and we bring our kids with us if we have to.
My children's teachers both produce information sheets for parents who are unable to attend information sessions.
My grade oner's teacher has a one year old at home and she is at the school before 8am, and happy to make an appointment to speak with parents in that time.
Parent/teacher interview notes are sent out about 2 weeks in advance, and you have to be pretty quick to get your prefered appointment! As I am a sahm, I always tell the teachers to slot me in around everyone else, because I figure people who have to get time off work can't be as flexible and should get first pick.
As for children recieving awards at assembly and things like that....there is always at least one parent there with a video camera! If you don't know any of the other parents, then maybe you could ask to put a notice in the school newsletter to ask if anyone has footage.
I think teachers deserve medals. Most go above and beyond "just doing their job" and what would we do without them? It's ridiculous that the role of moulding mankind of the future is given so little regard. If teachers actually wanted grovelling, I would be the first on my knees!
Edited to add: Hey sk8..I just noticed your DD is 6...so grade one? It does take a while to get used to how schools work. They are not like companies. Everything runs much more slowly and inefficiently! Schools have very little funding. Things like webcams etc have to be bought from the money raised by the P&C...and there are usually more pressing expenses, like keeping playground equipment safe. You'll get used to it. Good luck!
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