Maths

[Mariposa]

Hi all.

My eldest DD is now in grade 4. This morning I had an interview with her teachers as she really struggles in maths.

One of the things that was mentioned was that my DD lacks confidence in what she does in class with the maths that they are teaching.

The way the she is able to understand simple addition is by doing the sum like this

128
27
155

but at school they do the different strategies like this

128 +27 - break the numbers down so its 128 + 20 = 148 then break the 7 down (2+5) so 148 +2 = 150 +5 = 155.

The above stratedgy is confusing for my DD.

She has extra tutorial with a teacher a couple of days a week, and she seems to be doing quite well in a smaller group as opposed to the whole class group.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to make this fun for her, or more simple for her?

[missie_mack]

Is the teacher saying she needs to use their method of adding??

[Chickadee]

I'm not sure if this will help your daughter or not, and this is purely guesswork and my own opinion.

The first method, I think, is a more visual based method. It's how I learned to do math, on paper, so many years ago.

The 2nd method, again in my opinion, is targetted a bit more for learning to do sums in your head. There is no need to remember to 'carry the 1' for example. It's a useful method to know for quickly estimating what the right answer should be close to. And so it's a good habit for students to use when faced with a tough math problem. Even if she is more confident with method 1, if she understands method 2 then she can check her own answer.

I suspect that teachers are promoting method 2 because calculators are so common these days. I never bother to manually add up columns of big numbers with pen and paper, but will use my calculator. BUT, it's always possible to enter a wrong number in the calculator and not realise it. So I need to know, and students need to know, what the approximate answer should be. If my calculator says the answer to your math problem is 255, and in my head I quickly think that the answer should be around 150 (128+20 = 148 or around 150), then I know I must have done something wrong with the calculator.

A difference between them that might help:
Method 1 - add the '1s' column, then the '10s', then the 100s, etc.
Method 2 - exact opposite to Method 1. Add the 100s, then add the 10s, then add the 1's column.

[Mariposa]

Is the teacher saying she needs to use their method of adding??

yes they are. The way that she understands has apparently gone way out, so it's the new way (which has been around for awhile - so they tell me)

[missie_mack]

Strange because she will need the old version when she goes to high school :confused: especially in senior maths (which DH teaches)

I guess she really has to get the whole left to right factor out of her head and start at the easiest part and work backwards but I dunno how in earth to make that fun :confused:

[Mariposa]

The 2nd method, again in my opinion, is targetted a bit more for learning to do sums in your head. There is no need to remember to 'carry the 1' for example. It's a useful method to know for quickly estimating what the right answer should be close to. And so it's a good habit for students to use when faced with a tough math problem. Even if she is more confident with method 1, if she understands method 2 then she can check her own answer.

A difference between them that might help:
Method 1 - add the '1s' column, then the '10s', then the 100s, etc.
Method 2 - exact opposite to Method 1. Add the 100s, then add the 10s, then add the 1's column.

pinpointed well Martha :)

As of next week, they will be using numbers in the 1000 figures, so we will be acting on this at home this afternoon. I will use the strategies that they use.

It's hard to hear of her struggles, as normally at home (bar a few times) she has done ok with her maths.

[Chickadee]

Making it fun... ummm... buy some large bags of M&Ms or other sweets she likes. The aim to get between 20 and 200 pieces per bag. Label bags 1, 2, 3, etc. Starting with bag 1, open it and count how many (in groups of 10 or 20 pieces). Put them in a jar. Open bag 2, count them. Before she's allowed to put them in the jar she has to add the columns correctly. Continue till she has a full jar or a tummyache :)

Another option - ask her to help with the laundry. Her job is to check pockets for change (make sure there will be some there!). Any change she finds she gets to keep, BUT, first she has to add it all up and then add that day's total to the previous week's total. This might make the other girls jealous though.

[Nomsie]

Honestly, if she was in my grade, I would be teaching her the older method. It makes the most sense and is the quickest to do.

The other method should really only be taught once she has mastered the 1st. Obviously, different learners learn different ways. Some of us are visual, some are tactile etc, and this should be taken into account, but I wouldn't say that she is bad at maths because she can't do it the teachers/schools preferred way.

Ultimately in the end, as long as she is getting the right answer, I wouldn't be too concerned how she got there!

[Mariposa]

. Continue till she has a full jar or a tummyache :)

Another option - ask her to help with the laundry. Her job is to check pockets for change (make sure there will be some there!). Any change she finds she gets to keep, BUT, first she has to add it all up and then add that day's total to the previous week's total. This might make the other girls jealous though.
tummyache indeed! she can only tolerate a very small amount of junk food. I like the coin idea also, although DD2 would be asking for money also!



Ultimately in the end, as long as she is getting the right answer, I wouldn't be too concerned how she got there!

That was part of my reasoning also Nomsie. The teachers otherwise want them (which I understand also) the other way.

[Funkychicken]

Different schools use different teaching methods to come to the same conclusions. Sometimes children 'click' with one method and other children may find a different method easier.

Our children are taught from class 1 how to do maths using all of these methods-basically so that they can not just repeat counting etc... but to be able to process thr same thing in a few different ways. Once they have mastered that, they can move on to more skilled maths.

Something that really helps them is to have a small bag (as Martha has suggested) of counters. My DD for instance took 100 gumnuts to school, others took acorns, shells etc... and these become a big part of their maths lessons. They can visualise the numbers and amounts at all times as their head catches up so to speak.

I know your DD is older but going back to basics is often helpful. Kind of going back before forward.

[Mariposa]

I know your DD is older but going back to basics is often helpful. Kind of going back before forward.

I agree with this, hence we still do it :D

In the past we have used quite a few different "tools" such as paddlepop sticks, marbles, and lego.

Thanks for the other ideas though ladies.

[Theboys&me]

hi there

Do you know if this is Go Maths being used?? Just asking because I teach Year 5 and we use Go Maths and they tend to focus on Mental maths. It is really hard for some kids when they first start doing it - but I saw amazing results in the long run. By Semester 2 the children were familiar with both methods ( I get them to write their operations using the algorithm you talked about earlier as well).

[Mariposa]

hi there

Do you know if this is Go Maths being used??

Yes, they do use go maths! as well as go figure. :yes:

[Theboys&me]

And they probably test them using Go Check!!

Yeah I have found as a teacher that alot of it is mental based - although like I said I use both methods in my classroom. From what I have seen the kids tend to grasp it heaps better as the year goes on.

best of luck

[charlen49]

schooly teacher here..yes the second..and there are other methods as well is used to calculate in your head quickly...though the best method is for your dd to find the one she understands..as alreaddy pointed out..she will also be taught other methods of computations!

[charlen49]

Strange because she will need the old version when she goes to high school :confused: especially in senior maths (which DH teaches)

yes but its those children that can computate quickly in there heads and really understand whats going on, that will be more able to to do advanced maths in highschool..the maths curriculum now carries on from primary school(well in nsw anyway)..and they are also the kids in everyday life that wont need calculaters to work out simple or even complicated equations..or they may even be the the check out chick that can work out the change when the the old registers go breakdown;):thumbsup:

[charlen49]

I agree with this, hence we still do it :D

In the past we have used quite a few different "tools" such as paddlepop sticks, marbles, and lego.

Thanks for the other ideas though ladies.back to basics is what a good teacher will do until they find the method that makes the child' lightbulb glow..in line with the curriculum..the last class i taught was year 4 that ranged in varying degrees of ability...i would teach the same methods but go around it a different way to suit the abilities..those that got..were given more challenging..more abstract questions..those that didnt were given hands on material , using the same method to work out the problem..so yes go back to basics then gradually move on from there:thumbsup:

[Lila]

our dd (grade 4) doesn't like maths a bit
she is not really bad in it, but has no interest, so rather guesses than doing the hard work...
so what we did was, we bought this maths booklets they sell in bookshops.
we bought basic maths, maths grade 3 and maths grade 4.
we also let her do some internet maths (there was world maths day yesterday, did your dd bring something home from school?? my kids did, was a lot of fun they played against other kids worldwide..)
so she gets mixed extra work at home.
also, they do an extra class for *slow* maths kids at school, which is GREAT for her. she really enjoys this small group sessions.
good luck

[Mariposa]

thanks Charlen and Lila. Yes DD1 is participating in world maths day today. She has been onto the site also. We have got some math equation games online aswell.

She seems to have improved more this week, which I think is fantastic. Hopefully the lightbulb will shine brighter in her head, so she doesn't feel left out as much with maths anymore.

Another "game" we started, I got DH to make a little wooden dice, and got some little round dots to stick on it. we change the numbers frequently, doing doubles and calculations on the numbers that she has rolled. she does the strategies herself, and the bonus is she is enjoying it. :D

[Chickadee]

The dice game is a great idea!

[Mariposa]

Poor DD has been trying to get onto the world maths day site since coming home from swimming, but there is too much traffic! The teachers told the kids that they didn't have to do their normal homework, that they could do the world maths - but she couldn't get on :(