View Full Version : mums who pinch!
Was out at a public swimming area today and saw something that is really bothering me! A mum and her 2 daughters about 2 and 4 years of age were having a bad day - miss 4yr old was having a screaming fit - I'm not sure what caused it but she wasn't happy. The mum grabbed her and threw her into the wadding pool, she ran out screaming so mum grabbed her again and held her really tight and as she was scalding her I saw her pinching her on the arm - THE MUM WAS PINCHING HER DAUGHTER! - is this the way of smacking a child in public and hiding it?:mad: Of course the little girl kept screaming and mum shoved the beach ball in her face!!:mad: The screaming continued from both mum and daughter till they left! What the hell was that:eek:
Up front I will say that I don't smack my children, or pinch them, and I hate stories of children being hurt.......but I think we need to be really careful not to jump in too quickly to judge another mother's discipline of her child. If we aren't walking in their shoes we have no idea of what is going on.
That being said a friend of mine told me a story about her DIL who was out with her children and one of them was misbehaving quite badly. Not wanting to smack him in the supermarket and have the disapproval of the world on her she gave him (3 year old) a quiet pinch and told him to behave. He responded by yelling at the top of his voice "Why are you pinching me mum, that's not nice!" She didn't do it again.
mummycloud
18-03-2006, 20:52
What you whitnessed was child abuse and should have been reported.
Hang on - do you report every mother who smacks her child? Because I see this as very much the same thing (pinching / smacking that is).
My mother used to do that to me, she just didn't want to make a big scene so she would tell me that I would get a pinch instead of a smack. I do not think that my mother "abused" me. Even though I have made the choice not to smack my children, I don't judge those who do.
I agree that what you witnessed was totally inappropriate, she should have simply removed the child from the pool and taken her home, having said that once when i was shopping and running errands with my 3 children and completly frazzled, my then 7 yr old was being soooo naughty and in desperation i leant in and whispered 'just stop it' and gave him a little pinch on the arm, the same thing happened to me as Draught's friend, he said in a really loud voice 'dont pinch me mum!!' needless to say I have never done that again:o
Kamaikia
18-03-2006, 22:22
Sorry buts its amazing how quick some are to judge around here. Maybe she was just having a bad day - I know we have all had them and done something - even if you don't want to admit it - thats innagpropriate. Its amazing how as soon as we have children we become perfect??
I need to just say as well - wether you choose to smack your child or not its none of your business what others do. A smack is not abuse, a pinch or a yell from a frustrated, overtired mothers is not abuse.
Hardly something worth reporting - how bout we save our overworked child protection workers for the real cases of abuse.
I would have to say that I agree with Kamaikia. Are you going to report me? And yes I admit it I give my son a little smack or a pinch (apart from pinching he justs laughs) when he knows he has done something wrong.
Well said Kamaikia!!!
I don't think that such small things like that should be screamed about as abuse! I agree it may not be the best course of action or perhaps your choice of action, but there's a huge difference between a smack or a pinch as discipline and a black eye.
misskittyfantastico
18-03-2006, 22:35
Sorry buts its amazing how quick some are to judge around here. Maybe she was just having a bad day - I know we have all had them and done something - even if you don't want to admit it - thats innagpropriate. Its amazing how as soon as we have children we become perfect??
I need to just say as well - wether you choose to smack your child or not its none of your business what others do. A smack is not abuse, a pinch or a yell from a frustrated, overtired mothers is not abuse.
Hardly something worth reporting - how bout we save our overworked child protection workers for the real cases of abuse.
I agree. I'm not really for smacking but was smacked as a child and certainly could in no way call it abuse (although I would pipe up in a loud voice after the event "Abuse, abuse, I know my rights!!- my poor mother:laughing: )
I just think that frustration causes a lot of behaviour that while probably isn't the best, doesn't constitute abuse.
Girls I think the original poster and mummyclouds point was that this scene obviously went beyond the occasional frustrated little smack or pinch, she threw the child in the pool! i dont care how frustrated i was, i would never do that, and believe me i and my children are far from perfect, but if this is the sort of scene this woman puts on in public, imagine what she does behind the scenes? i dont think anyone is judging, just sharing something that obviously upset her. :)
Melissa1983
18-03-2006, 22:41
Please don't jump or judge me for what i am going to say...
My daughter pinches me or my other DD so i do pinch her back, i don't do it hard, she doesn't cry or anything like that, but i think she needs to realise that you don't pinch or hit... I was smacked in my life and i wouldn't call it Child Abuse, and back in our parents day it was alot worse than what it is now.
Don't get me wrong i disagree with what that mother done to her child, she shouldn't have pinch her child for no reason, or with the beach ball in her face.
I have to agree with the last few posts. I was smacked as a kid and would hardly call it abuse!!!
Why do we judge each other so harshly, when one: we know we've done it as a kid and two: we all know what kids can be like - they love test us!! Mothers can be the harshest critics!
But, in saying all that - i wasn't there today jessica and there may have been more to it than what i have taken from your post.
the_queen
18-03-2006, 23:08
:( That would have been a sad thing to witness, Jessica. Not only physically painful for the little girl, but also very embarassing.
Kids take their emotional cues from their parents (we all know that) and I know myself that if I am at the end of my tether and raising my voice and being "less than perfect" then Vallerie behaves just the same way. But when I'm calm and in control of myself, then she (eventually!) is too.
Of course every family is different. And we all have bad days. I have smacked Vallerie 5 times in her life, and every single time it has been more about my short temper/sleep deprivation/depression etc. She has never "deserved it". And I regret each and every smack.
I have tried my very best to be a gentle parent with her. Teaching her by role modelling how to be gentle, and polite, and compassionate. Of course, like I said, at times I haven't been perfect - but who among us is??
Incidentally, she has never pinched me, thrown things at me, been violent at all towards me. Oh, she did smack me on the arm once during a tantrum - but interestingly, that was later the same day after I'd smacked her.
:)
My daughter pinches me or my other DD so i do pinch her back, i don't do it hard, she doesn't cry or anything like that, but i think she needs to realise that you don't pinch or hit...
Not jumping or judging, but what you are teaching her is that people DO pinch. Some parents bite their child if the child bites, or slap their hand if the child hits. Children learn by example, and if their parents hit or pinch them when they do the wrong thing, they will hit and pinch when someone smaller and weaker does something they don't like. There are alternatives, NSW Health publishes a brochure on "12 Alternatives to Hitting" and there's numbers for Parentline and Centacare at the bottom of this page that may be useful. http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/health-public-affairs/mhcs/publications/5815.html
misskittyfantastico
18-03-2006, 23:45
Not jumping or judging, but what you are teaching her is that people DO pinch. Some parents bite their child if the child bites, or slap their hand if the child hits. Children learn by example, and if their parents hit or pinch them when they do the wrong thing, they will hit and pinch when someone smaller and weaker does something they don't like.
Hmmm, I was smacked (about 5 times as a child) and have never raised a hand to anyone else. I think that parents do the best they can do and whether they smack/pinch or not is really no ones business (unless of course there is real abuse taking place):)
Not jumping or judging, but what you are teaching her is that people DO pinch. Some parents bite their child if the child bites, or slap their hand if the child hits. Children learn by example, and if their parents hit or pinch them when they do the wrong thing, they will hit and pinch when someone smaller and weaker does something they don't like. There are alternatives, NSW Health publishes a brochure on "12 Alternatives to Hitting" and there's numbers for Parentline and Centacare at the bottom of this page that may be useful. http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/health-public-affairs/mhcs/publications/5815.html
I dunno.. I bit my sister and my mum would bite me back.
I learnt that biting hurts and that it wasn't something that impressed my mum. So I didn't do it again.
the_queen
19-03-2006, 00:02
While there are never ever any absolutes when it comes to child-rearing, children do generally mimic their parents. I too was smacked as a child, but I guess that's why I don't smack (or why I try very hard not to, I mean). So my mum's behaviour modelling didn't rub off on me. It just bemused me. I used to get smacked because I'd hit my sister. In retrospect, no wonder I hit her. My childish line of thinking was, that's what you do when someone is naughty, isn't it?
I think maybe Zactyl is just trying to point out that being a positive role model means behaving in the way you want your child to behave.
Just like that ingham's ad :laughing: "you've got a great mum, michelle" "BLOODY OATH" :laughing:
Ana Gram
19-03-2006, 00:09
We live by the idea that if DD went and hit, pinched or bit someone as an adult in everyday life there would most likely be serious consequences!
SassyMummy
19-03-2006, 00:43
I have pinched my daughter's arm a few times...because there's no other way I can really teach her not to play with powercords...other than to show her that each time she does, there is a consequence. Sometimes she cries...but I don't do it hard, and I believe she is just trying to make me feel bad (she's just beginning the guilt-trip thing...).
I don't think that pinching or smacking is the best way to discipline a child, but I don't believe there IS a perfect way to do so. We are all human, and though we might think smacking is wrong...sometimes we just lose it and so we smack or pinch. I haven't done it yet...not in a "losing it" way (only with the power cords)...but I know the day will come when I will just lose it and smack my daughter.
I don't think that smacking your child necessarily leads to violence as an adult. My parents smacked me - hell, they had "weapons" (as in, "the belt" and "the wooden spoon"...and the worst of all: the plastic end of a feather duster which stung like hell!). I've never gotten into any phsical fights (except with my brother - because he deserved it! lol...but even then I was only a kid). I don't think smacking is the "right" way to discipline but I don't always think it's the "wrong" thing either. There's a different between beating a child and smacking them because they were naughty. At least, that's what I believe.
reAllytee
19-03-2006, 01:13
While i dont agree with what this mother did i guess its hard to judge without knowing the full story. Just not keen on throwing a child into a pool due to either them being knocked out or other various reasons.
That being said im not really keen on the idea of smacking my bubs BUT he does get a light tap on his heavily clothed nappy LOL. Like SassyMummy's lo he plays with powercords as this has become his favourite pass time & i also believe in there being consequences its never hard enough to cause harm but just to get his attention. Ive tried "No!" in a deep voice or a growl. Ive tried taking him away & playing with other toys or the likes but he just goes back. Most of our cords are hidden but there are some you just cant get away & even if i do just for the day while he plays he will go for the powerpoint :rolleyes: . He also has been aggressive towards me since little slapping my face when frustrated or even head butting me & i hadnt starting tapping his butt until a month or so ago.
I was smacked as a child as were my sisters with the wooden spoon i never hated my parents i hated the spoon LOL. Ive never been aggressive towards others neither have my sisters ( ok well lets not count my middle sister on her spat on NY's day LOL ). Oh & my eldest sister was a biter to which my mum bit her back one day to show her it hurts, my sister never bit anyone ever again. She is the most laid back easy going person i know & that frustrates the hell outta me sometimes LOL.
So i think there is a difference from a child being disciplined to a child learning abuse yeah a fine line i know but i think if a child learns you get beaten for no reason they think its then fine to do so out in the real world. Thats just my thinking maybe im wrong i dunno its really really hard.
Parenting is so complicated at times im honestly lost !
I dont' think violence breeds violence. I was beaten up on a daily basis by my father whilst my mother watched. I know how it felt. That is exactly the reason I will never ever hit my child.
Mind you, my brother had the same thing happen to him and he has been expelled from several schools for bullying and getting into fights:confused:
He also beats the hell out of my little sister:mad:
I guess it depends on the individual, or maybe it changes when you have children of your own.
I don't like to see other mums smack their children, but I am open minded about it all, you never know their situation.
I know when my DD really hits me and hurts me it takes a lot of will power not to turn around and bite/hit/scratch her back. Therefor I can't look down on mums who I see doing it.
Just my thoughts:p
I think that the whole throwing the child into the pool and the beach ball in the face was overstepping the line.
My mother used to pinch me under the arm when out in public when I used to do my good ol tanty chuck in the middle of the shopping centre, and it worked. Not because she hurt me, but because it was enough of a shock to bring me back into line.
I don't know what the situation was, but if she pinched her child for no reason, then I don't agree with that.
I have seen children being smacked across the face in public, now THAT is something that I would report.
mummycloud
19-03-2006, 13:09
Was going to defend my coment, but already has been ;)
A pinch on the arm and whisper in the ear is much different from pinching, yelling, throwing a child in a pool and the throwing a ball in the child's face, put altogether it's definetly child abuse.
I don't report every mother I see doing silly things, but I would report THAT or atleast step in and say something, like, hey! that's enough, come and have a coffee and clam down!
mummycloud
19-03-2006, 13:14
I will also add, people have mentioned that she may have been having a bad day, well, how do you know, maybe that's just a small part of the bigger picture. If she IS just having a bad day, then protective services will see that and perhaps offer some counselling.
I called protective services on MYSELF a month ago. I WAS having a bad day and felt like doing something really awful to my teenage daughter. It's when parents have "bad days" that abuse happens. It's not like child abusers belt there kids on a good day is it? That girl who chopped her sons leg off, was obviously having a bad day!
Anyway, I'm glad I called them, I now have free counselling for myself and my daughter ;)
heymamma
19-03-2006, 13:30
First of all you dont even know this woman.. I do not think it is abuse...i was smacked as a child & if my daughter does naughty she gets a smack...i dont smack her everytime she is naughty ..sometimes she gets warning's then after plenty of warnings if she doesnt stop then she gets a smack... but other times she will be told to sit in corner. As for phoenix is he is naughty..he gets a lil smack on his hand & told naughty or NO! .... so i think i am like alot of women out there... i dont know 1 person that does not smack there kids.
So report me but gee there would be alot of people out there in trouble if that was the case.
I do agree with the person that said ..some of you ladies are so quick to judge everyone. :rolleyes:
mummycloud
19-03-2006, 13:54
I think what Jessica whitnessed was far more than a mother pinching her child and having a yell. The whole scenario was over the top. That sort of behaviour shows a woman who had lost control and gone beyond the "normal" disciplinary actions.
Sometimes parents behave this way in a public as a cry for help. If more people stepped in then there would be alot of grateful babies and mummies :D of course alo of people would see it as sticking unwanted noses in, but that's why you can do it anonymously. Also, you don't have to contact protective services, sometimes gentely approuching a mum and child in need works wonders. I've heard epople say that they are too scared to step in, well if the mother is that terrifying then imagin what that poor child is going through :crying:
um.. wow.. what a response - I had to quickly go back and read my entry to check but I know I never claimed this was abuse!! What got me was the whole pinching thing - I have never (till now!) heard of mums pinching rather than smacking - I don't want to judge the action it simply shocked me - can I be shocked without judging? I don't know. Personally I'm not a big fan of smacking - DD has had a few light smacks on the hand for touching dangerous things after being told not but since she just looks at me quizically and does it again I figure it dosen't work! I remember my mum chasing my little sister around the house with a wooden spoon, mum yelling and my sister laughing!!:rolleyes: we're trying the naughty couch/time out strategy at the moment:fingerscrossed:
Anyway I just wanted to say that alot of people JUDGED my post without really reading it (haha:D ).. and while I don't agree with the pinching strategy I know we all have bad days (I know!!)... I know I feel as guilty as hell when my bad day at work comes home to greet my little one - sometimes it's hard to put on your happy face after a long day but I do my absolute best, as I know we all do!!!;)
Hi Jessica
Don't take all this too much to heart - you wanted to discuss something that shocked you - that's OK. You can certainly be shocked without judging.
Some ppl read about the incident, thought it was abuse and said so, others didn't think it was. Some have experienced this very thing as children and shared that also. It's part of what make the hub such and interesting and valuable place to be, all the different opinions and experiences that we all have. It makes perfect sense that all of our differing backgrounds lead us to have different opinions about all the topics that we discuss. Disagreements are fine, as long as it is in a respectful manner. Also remember how easy it is to misinterpret what ppl post in our text only medium, try not to take offence easily or reply hastily.
Cheers
no offence taken - just wanted to clear things up and make sure I hadn't offended anyone!!:D
heymamma
19-03-2006, 16:25
Dont forget jessica...some people may have actually been making a reply to somthing someone else said.... i know i was. I do agree that you were quick to judge this woman without even knowing her or her situation.
Trust me you know what this site is like...its mainly full of women...that have alot of opinons. i just got anoyyed (sp?) at the fact that it seems like so many mother's act like they are perfect & do no wrong. Alot of them there child may still be young & havnt had to put up with the bad attitude door slammed in your face stuff!!
SugarBlossom
19-03-2006, 16:29
Sassymummy I have a baby a few days older than ur little one....do you really pinch her arm?
I could never do that......
I think the whole course of conduct may equal abuse. A pinch on the arm and yell, probably not, but throwing the child in the pool, putting the beach ball in it's face - that indicates to me a mother who cannot control her children or her temper.
I only wish someone had made more complaints about my sister before she screwed her kids up to the point that they suffer from reactive attachement disorder.
Child protection is everyone's business and we need to look after those who are most vulnerable.
Had my 10c worth now and am exiting stage left...
if my daughter does naughty she gets a smack...i dont smack her everytime she is naughty ..sometimes she gets warning's then after plenty of warnings if she doesnt stop then she gets a smack... but other times she will be told to sit in corner. As for phoenix is he is naughty..he gets a lil smack on his hand & told naughty or NO! .... so i think i am like alot of women out there... i dont know 1 person that does not smack there kids.
So report me but gee there would be alot of people out there in trouble if that was the case
Its great to hear different opinions on how people handle disipline. As my two are not at that age yet I am yet to make a decision on whether I will smack or not. I think what you are saying makes total sence to me heymamma, this is what I will probably do BUT aying that i cant imagine myself smacking them at all.... the time will undoubtedly come though.
Blessed Mum
19-03-2006, 18:14
mmmmmmmmm.....this is an intresting topic for me coz some of you know that DH & I are foster carers & I do a lot of training thru DOCS on CHILD ABUSE & I can tell you I've had to care for children at both ends of this scale. My house is a strictly no smacking house it wasn't always like that when DS was younger & I continue to learn a lot everyday as a parent. I think we all do , I also agree that as parents we do the best that we can at the time & I believe we need to re-educate parents who are abusing their children because nine times out of ten they are only either parenting their children the way they were parented or are just simply not coping. As I said at the beginning of my post it is really intresting to me to see what other mums see as 'abuse'. This is a tough subject & one that will always cause difference of opinion as we all are different in how we raise our children. Some one else said save Docs for serious cases of child abuse I just want to add I don't think I should be raising someone else's children because they've smacked them however I believe if you see or hear something that just doesnt sit right with you - report it. Because it is our job as a community to protect innocent little children. Sorry :ecomcity: :ecomcity: :ecomcity: .
So Jessica if that was the case you have every right to report it.
Just my 2cents worth.
kiwibird27
19-03-2006, 18:33
I think there is a huge difference between smacking or pinching to relieve adult frustration, and a smack as a form of punishment e.g. after the parent has calmed and is in fully in control of his/her emotions
As a nanny I have never had the need to smack a child, however I will have to let you know as a parent when the tensions are there???!!!
That woman must of been so angry and frustrated at herself to need to physically harm her child, in public to vent, she probably ended up feeling worse, think it's sad when people honestly don't know a better way of doing things and can't get past there own anger and frustrations to deal with there children in a better way
I'm with Tara25, report it, DoCs do a fantastic job - TARA25 - What a fasinating but emotional job u must have, have cared for children who have been physically abused before, and found it incredibly rewarding seeing them come out of there shell, however very frustarting when they return to the environment hence they came!!!!!
Oscar's mum
19-03-2006, 18:37
I think perhaps that mother needed some time off!:thumbsup:
I don't think her actions were really fantastic but then again I wasn't at the pool I didn't see the whole story!
If she is willing to lose control like that in public, I wonder what she is like in their home? It's true we don't know her story or why she feels the need to behave like that, so we can't judge.
To be honest it scares me
My mother physically abused me for 11 years so much so I lost my front teeth. I will never ever lay a finger on my children and I have made this point darn clear to my partner. Who said he agrees, but thinks a slap on the hand is fine..But he didn't grow up with my mother!!
I see zero need to physically harm a child weather it be a pinch or a punch. Your voice and the fact you are the parent therefore the authoritative figure should be enough to get the point across. I also don't believe in screaming and shouting to solve issues.
I find it really, really sad:(
nemosmum
19-03-2006, 19:25
Im with you DM:)
I was never physically abused as a child (we got one or two smacks) but the threat was always there so much so that I became very stressed as a child.
I dont think we can ever truly predict how smacking/pinching etc effects a child emotionally iykwim
Some children may be fine with it, I know DH used to get hit all the time for "wild " behaviour ( he even got hit wih a cricket bat once:eek: )
But to this day he believes his parents did it out of love and thinks they did a great job of raising him etc
Now like I said I was never physically abused but it still effected me as a child (the fear that is of what might happen) so I am very much against using physical punishment on my son.......doesnt mean I havent been tempted or had some really challenging moments, believe me I have:rolleyes:
But I make the effort not to use physical punishment as a way to gain control of my child, I really dont see the point in it any way. DH and I have discussed the issue and he agrees with me (so far) that we should discipline not hurt our son.
To me children are just little people and deserve just as much respect as I would give an adult in the street:)
Mummabear
19-03-2006, 19:40
Just my 2c worth......
Parenting for me is about respect. I behave in a manner that will hopefully enable my children to respect me and what I say. Growing up I was smacked occasionally, but it didn't have much of an effect on me, I was more fearful of disappointing my parents than getting a smack.
As for the pool incident. I have a real problem with seeing parents behave like children. That woman was no better than a 2 year old throwing a tantrum because she didn't get her way. Of course her child is going to misbehave and throw tantrums when things don't go her way - that's what Mum does :thumbsdown:
Blessed Mum
19-03-2006, 20:03
I just wanted to say I'm truly sorry for some of what you ladies are describing that happened in your childhoods.:( . You are trye survivors to get where you are today.
:hugs: to you all
Tara
I just wanted to say I'm truly sorry for some of what you ladies are describing that happened in your childhoods.:( . You are trye survivors to get where you are today.
:hugs: to you all
Tara
:confused:
I agree Tara
Pumpkin, read back over some of the posts;) :)
misskittyfantastico
19-03-2006, 21:31
I just wanted to say I'm truly sorry for some of what you ladies are describing that happened in your childhoods.:( . You are trye survivors to get where you are today.
:hugs: to you all
Tara
What she said:hugs: :hugs:
I think Tara was talking about the other people who have posted on here and told of their discipline experiences as children. Some of them conveyed really harsh stories, so I think she was impressed that they are survivors who have made a stance and will not get sucked into the cycle of violence on their own children.
Blessed Mum
19-03-2006, 21:47
I think Tara was talking about the other people who have posted on here and told of their discipline experiences as children. Some of them conveyed really harsh stories, so I think she was impressed that they are survivors who have made a stance and will not get sucked into the cycle of violence on their own children.
That's exactly what I was saying thanks Maghan for maybe making it a little clearer:o . Thanks for the support milliesmum & coopsntilly. I really was touched by what some of you bubhub ladies shared here today/tonight.:hugs:
I think that when you go through something like I did you have to use it, there was a reason for it, we don't know the reasons but I believe everything in our lives happens for a reason good or bad. And what you do with it is up to you, maybe by sharing like I did,and the others it can help someone else. Writing it made me cry, writing this makes me cry. But it has taught me that I never ever want my children to feel like this.
hence my outlook on the subject.
:hugs:
Having a nearly three year old, I do smack him. Though his behaviour is improving tenfold and the days where I seemed to be telling him off every five minutes seem to be diminishing - thank goodness.
What I was going to say was if he was being naughty while we were out, sure I would probably give him a smack, but I would take him and sit him down away from where the fun was and make him watch. If he didn't improve that would be when we'd leave.
It's hard to judge when you're not there and you don't know the whole story or are in this womans shoes.
Here are some resources that may help parents who want to stop smacking (or pinching) their child/ren.
Spanking, Ages 1 to 3 (http://www.ahealthyadvantage.com/topic/spanking1to3)
10 Pro-Corporal Punishment Arguments & 10 Commonsense Answers (http://stophitting.blogspot.com/2006/01/back-in-good-ol-days-and-other.html)
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