View Full Version : Path of a Midwife: Circumcision, From a Child's Point Of View
MotherNurture
07-02-2008, 02:27
Link (http://midwifeapprentice.blogspot.com/2008/02/circumcision.html)
Jen
That made me feel sick :no:
mumx3littlies
07-02-2008, 06:01
That made me feel sick :no:
Me too:(Very very sad that people ***unnecessary text removed*** allow this to be inflicted upon their normal, healthy boys for no medical reason.
sam's mum
07-02-2008, 08:41
that was very well written and I hope that people can read it with an open mind to try and get an understanding of how it may be for the child.
prideNJoy
07-02-2008, 08:48
I only got to the part of them shoving the 'plug' in his mouth and then "exposing the penis" ....can't read any more. :( :no:
no offence to anyone that has had their boys circumsised but i think it's a painful procedure done for no reason at all. especially since as recently as 2000 the doctors didn't even use anaestetic because they believed that babies feel no pain.
secondtimearound2
07-02-2008, 14:20
Gee I'm glad they don't do it that way in Australia!!
sam's mum
07-02-2008, 15:17
Gee I'm glad they don't do it that way in Australia!!
which bit do you think is different?
they still take a person with no understanding of what is happening.
has an oral painkiller on a dummy
has his penis exposed, clamped etc
returns to his mother
the only part that would be materially different is if it wasn't a teaching situation then it would be somewhat quicker as you wouldn't need to slow down and explain to the students.
MotherNurture
07-02-2008, 17:49
the only part that would be materially different is if it wasn't a teaching situation then it would be somewhat quicker as you wouldn't need to slow down and explain to the students.
:yes:
Baby's still being taken from his mother's protective embrace, experiencing needles/injections (if he's lucky), being strapped down and descended upon by the gloved hands of a stranger wielding clamp and scalpel, the odor of antiseptic permeating his nostrils, a pacifier-often dipped in sugar water-stuffed into his mouth to hush him (hearing him cry might upset mom/dad if they happen to be present), having the most sensitive and intimate part of his body irreversibly surgically altered---literally, skinned. What a confusing, traumatic experience for a perfectly healthy, normal baby boy to be subjected to, whether it takes 10 minutes or an hour.
Shanaynay
07-02-2008, 17:59
And don't forget the effects last a lifetime, no matter what country it's done in ;)
punkbaby
07-02-2008, 18:22
Very well written but quiet disturbing to read :( makes me want to cry
I don't think I have the heart to read it :(
I'm too scared.
reAllytee
07-02-2008, 18:35
which bit do you think is different?
they still take a person with no understanding of what is happening.
has an oral painkiller on a dummy
has his penis exposed, clamped etc
returns to his mother
the only part that would be materially different is if it wasn't a teaching situation then it would be somewhat quicker as you wouldn't need to slow down and explain to the students.
:yes:
Baby's still being taken from his mother's protective embrace, experiencing needles/injections (if he's lucky), being strapped down and descended upon by the gloved hands of a stranger wielding clamp and scalpel, the odor of antiseptic permeating his nostrils, a pacifier-often dipped in sugar water-stuffed into his mouth to hush him (hearing him cry might upset mom/dad if they happen to be present), having the most sensitive and intimate part of his body irreversibly surgically altered---literally, skinned. What a confusing, traumatic experience for a perfectly healthy, normal baby boy to be subjected to, whether it takes 10 minutes or an hour.
My son was taken in with his dad in loving arms.
He wasnt strapped down.
He wasnt clamped.
He wasnt given a dummy with sugar water.
He was given a block which he didnt worry about.
He was circ'ed using the plastibell method which is the most common way here in Oz is why secondtimeround made the comment.
Remember this is the discuss it area so others are allowed to have varying views & have their say without having to feel the need to justify it.
Remember this is the discuss it area so others are allowed to have varying views & have their say without having to feel the need to justify it.
:iagree:
I also want to remind ppl of the guidelines for language (http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=120819) used when posting in any of the circ sections. Some earlier posts have been edited, any more in this thread that require editing will also recieve infractions.
Cheers
DivinelySophistimicated
07-02-2008, 22:04
I have just written an argument article on this very subject. Wow I wish I had the balls to explain it the way that midwife did!!
It just makes your heart cry
MotherNurture
08-02-2008, 02:07
And don't forget the effects last a lifetime, no matter what country it's done in ;)
:yes:
He wasnt strapped down.
If he wasn't strapped down, which is quite unusual, he was held down, legs spread.
Babies move and kick; don't want them doing it when there's sharp objects near by.
He wasnt clamped.
The plastibell is a type of clamp, the foreskin is still clamped laterally with a hemostat and then slit down the side before the bell is placed. It's just instead of metal against metal clamping the flesh, the plastibell is tightly wrapped and knotted suture against plastic. The same thing happens after the tissue is strangulated; the foreskin is trimmed away with a scissors, blade, or scalpel.
He was given a block which he didnt worry about.
Babies don't "worry" much because they don't have the ability to anticipate, especially something as surprising as having their genitals cut...unless it's the second or third time it's happened. That being said, the injections themselves are painful, like a bee sting, as the anesthetic infuses into the sensitive tissues. I've had Lidocaine injected into my ankle for a procedure and I can say from personal, first hand experience: It hurt.
He was circ'ed using the plastibell method which is the most common way here in Oz is why secondtimeround made the comment.
I still don't see how the story wouldn't apply to the plastibell procedure; all it said with regard to method is that the practitioners go to work with "scissors and clamps". Those are also instruments utilized during a typical plastibell circumcision.
Jen
reAllytee
08-02-2008, 14:53
If he wasn't strapped down, which is quite unusual, he was held down, legs spread.
Babies move and kick; don't want them doing it when there's sharp objects near by.
The plastibell is a type of clamp, the foreskin is still clamped laterally with a hemostat and then slit down the side before the bell is placed. It's just instead of metal against metal clamping the flesh, the plastibell is tightly wrapped and knotted suture against plastic. The same thing happens after the tissue is strangulated; the foreskin is trimmed away with a scissors, blade, or scalpel.
Babies don't "worry" much because they don't have the ability to anticipate, especially something as surprising as having their genitals cut...unless it's the second or third time it's happened. That being said, the injections themselves are painful, like a bee sting, as the anesthetic infuses into the sensitive tissues. I've had Lidocaine injected into my ankle for a procedure and I can say from personal, first hand experience: It hurt.
I still don't see how the story wouldn't apply to the plastibell procedure; all it said with regard to method is that the practitioners go to work with "scissors and clamps". Those are also instruments utilized during a typical plastibell circumcision.
Jen
I find it really frustrating that you feel the need to pull apart everyones post but hey thats how you get your message across so fine.
As i was just stating what happened with my son & for your info yet again when ive had this dicsussion with you before my son was done due to various infections. So this was a far better outcome for him.
No i dont want to read just happy posts on it i read everything around thanks.
I was just stating that this is the area that its meant to be discussed in so guess what you on the anti side do also have to accept that others are going to have varying views to yours. Like it or not others will have these differing views & differing statements to make. This means that we have every right to post in here.
So maybe you also need to think about sticking to the anti side if you cant take someone like myself stating my own factual information from what happened with my son. Thanks.
secondtimearound2
08-02-2008, 17:26
Don't worry Ally :). It's no-ones business as to the reasons why you have had it done. As you and I both know you have to go out of your way to do it. It's not the norm, we are not just doing it cause it is the done thing!! We were fully informed and have gone out of our way to do it in the best interest of our Son's. We are not America and have I said..... it is not routinely done here in Oz :p. The op link is not how my Son was done either ;) .
secondtimearound2
08-02-2008, 17:31
which bit do you think is different?
they still take a person with no understanding of what is happening.
has an oral painkiller on a dummy
has his penis exposed, clamped etc
returns to his mother
the only part that would be materially different is if it wasn't a teaching situation then it would be somewhat quicker as you wouldn't need to slow down and explain to the students.
Gee was you in there with my Son...mmm I don't think so ;) .....you might want to get some facts straight before posting and quoting my post.
Cheers
sam's mum
08-02-2008, 21:26
Gee was you in there with my Son...mmm I don't think so Love ;) .....you might want to get some facts straight before posting and quoting my post.
Cheers
I was actually asking the question because I would like to know. I wasn't being sarcastic or a smart@ss.
you made a statement that you were glad your son had been done in Australia and I wanted to know what was different and then quoted the parts that I felt would have to be duplicated in order for the operation to actually take place.
I thought that we were having a discussion and I was trying to get further information from you so that I could understand how it was different in Australia.
I think we need to acknowledge that there is not one single circumcision method and that we can't assume how or why any one particular boy was circumcised.
Can we keep our discussion to the article that was posted? It is one person's summary of a number of circ procedures that she has witnessed. It is relevent? Is it current? If you have info to share that would enlighten us, please do.
Cheers
secondtimearound2
08-02-2008, 22:13
STA: I think she has a very valid point here. You have just taken it upon yourself to assume her post as being directly targeted at you and your situation. I think, in general thats what happens to most babies when undergoing this procedure, so yes, its very much the same.
MN: once again you provide clear informative posts that clearly express an obviously passionate, informed and educated standpoint. They are a pleasure to read. Thankyou. :hugs:
I do believe the post was directed to me and also other parents who have chosen to circ thier Son's. I don't find the article very relevant, informed or educational. I find it as an opinion article for the anti circ brigade!! We live in 2007 not the 1950's where the OP link may well be the truth back then. You have to understand that IT IS NOT ROUTINELY DONE ANYMORE. I am truly sick of reading "I'm a better, loving parent then you are" because of a choice we have made on behave of our child. I'm telling you now I certainly love my Son to bits. He and my other cheeky monkey are my world. Don't anyone even question that....ever.
jessaboo
15-05-2008, 13:52
OMG OMG OMG. My little boy is due early August and have been unsure whether to circumcise or not as his dad is. My question has been answered NO!!!! It is his body and he can decide if that is what he wants when he is old enough. Am totally horrified...
Milliner
15-05-2008, 14:00
:yelclap: Jess for doing some research and not just getting the procedure done 'cos daddy is'. :hugs:
Mummaholic
15-05-2008, 14:15
Oh how awful. Not for me or my boys, that's for sure.
I recently found out my dad was cir'd (fairly common for his gen) and my brother never was. We never even realised dad was circ'd! So getting him done just to be like daddy would have been pointless.
I couldn't even take them doing the heel prick test...it was so hard!
PaperTiger
15-05-2008, 15:55
OMG OMG OMG. My little boy is due early August and have been unsure whether to circumcise or not as his dad is. My question has been answered NO!!!! It is his body and he can decide if that is what he wants when he is old enough. Am totally horrified...
Your little boy thanks you jessaboo!! :goodvibes:
Lillynix
15-05-2008, 16:57
I can't finish reading it, it made me feel physically ill.
chicky2lala
15-05-2008, 17:47
I couldnt even read it, it would just upset me too much.
MamaSage
15-05-2008, 17:48
Erm... a bible fella. Jacob? His daughter was raped by a prince and then Jacob (or whover) made all the subjects and family of that prince be circumcised. (I think :confused: )
Mamalicious
15-05-2008, 17:48
Can I just ask AND IM NOT BEING A SMART@SS...
Who started circumcision? Weird question, I know, but who just thought, "Hey, lets cut this kids foreskin off". Kinda like who was the first person to discover cows milk...what was he thinking he was doing? LOL :p
Depends who you talk to. For Muslims, they would most likely say something along the lines of Allah wished it and Mohammed gave the message.
Jews would probably have something similar.
For medical reasons, I would say it probably came about like any other sort of amputation, it's infected, needs to be removed before it causes damage to the rest of the body.
jessaboo
15-05-2008, 18:15
I am with you on this,in this day and age, parents are against this procedure so when they grow up alot of their friends will probably be the same so they won't feel different
Mamalicious
15-05-2008, 18:26
I am with you on this,in this day and age, parents are against this procedure so when they grow up alot of their friends will probably be the same so they won't feel different
Mmm, for some people.
My sons will grow up in the Muslim community, where they would be the ones who are different if they weren't being circumcised.
For a Muslim boy, to not be circumcised is just STRANGE.
When my DH was done they had huge groups of boys done altogether and there was dancing, yummy food, music, celebrations, it's a rite of passage for them
So to not give my boys that, because YES, it is considered something good that is given to them, I would be setting them up for big troubles in the future.
Lillynix
15-05-2008, 18:37
Circumcision is wrong. Always has been, always will be. You can try and justify it all you want but it doesn't make it right.
Chopping off part of a human beings body will NEVER be okay, no matter what you call it. Amputation or Circumcision. It's still blantantly wrong and should never be done unless for valid medical reasons.
There are many Muslims who will grow up with their foreskins intact. Circumcision, while still the norm, isn't regarded as absolutely necessary and more and more parents are turning away from this practice. It is not stated as a requirement in the Quran - only in the Hadiths. Which are a bit hit and miss as to which are trustworthy and which are not.
I have been to many circumcision "parties" in my time and you know what? Not one of the boys that came out of that room looked like he wanted to celebrate. Not one.
It's hard to go against culture and tradition but it's the only way that these poor little boys will have the genital integrity that they deserve.
Mamalicious
15-05-2008, 18:45
I have been to many circumcision "parties" in my time and you know what? Not one of the boys that came out of that room looked like he wanted to celebrate. Not one.
I haven't been to one, I have what my DH experienced, and he ran around showing everyone, as did most of the other boys.
I have found ONE website that is against circumcision is Islam, it's a shame that whenever I visit it is under construction.
It's not about websites, S. It's about what you know to be right and wrong through your own research into the matter.
I had a few resources bookmarked a while ago. I'll see if I can find them on the old computer.
In my experience, the boys came out withdrawn but looking otherwise okay. Within 15 minutes they were crying and wailing, begging their mums for help. The party seems to be for the benefit of the grown ups, to salve their guilt over the matter, to take their minds off what is actually happening. They think what they are doing is right but they FEEL it's wrong.
I think we need to pull this thread back on topic. We have other threads that discuss the religious implications of circumcision, or feel free to start your own. This thread is about ppl's reaction to the link that was provided in the OP.
Cheers
JimJamsMum
20-05-2008, 09:41
Remember, the story is fictitious and I don't think that anyone here can say that it is accurate unless they have actually witnessed a circumcision. Has anyone here actually seen one done in the manner that the story describes?
Secondly, no-one is mentioning medically necessary circumcisions. Are they done differently to other circs? No of course not. Perhaps have a think about how such a post might make someone feel if their son had a medically necessary circ done.
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