View Full Version : Who would you hold responsible?
MummaBear03
06-02-2008, 18:48
A 4 year old came into daycare after a few days away. The child's father is overseas at the moment and the mother is a nurse, so she uses daycare through the day and a live-in nanny as well for nights. The mother was at work at night, and at 11pm the 4 year old fell and made a lot of noise in the bathroom. The nanny ran in their and found that the child had climbed up on a clothes hamper and got into a bottle of liquid Maxalon. He was taken to hospital and had his stomach pumped. The mother blames the child, the nanny blames the child, and nanny also blames the big brother (who was sleeping) for letting him out of the room at night, I blame the mother for not having a lock on the medicine cabinet, and I also blame the nanny for going to bed before making sure the boys were asleep and also for not closing the bathroom door. Other staff at the daycare centre are saying he's 4 years old and should know better. Just after opinions on this, as to me a 4 year old is still only a small child and should be watched to ensure these things don't happen. Maybe I'm just an over-protective mother, maybe I'm not alone. Who would you blame?
rynosmum
06-02-2008, 18:54
I wouldn't blame anyone. Accidents unfortunately happen.
I hope the little boy is okay.:yes:
I wouldn't blame anyone. Accidents unfortunately happen.
I hope the little boy is okay.:yes:
:iagree: I think at times like this the last thing people should doing is playing the blame game. They should be focusing their energy on their child.
WorkingClassMum
06-02-2008, 19:01
The child is a child. Whilst at 4 he may understand right from wrong, at 4 he has no concept of consequences. He knew he was doing the wrong thing, but by virtue of the fact he has no awarness of consequences, he has a reduced capacity and cannot be held accountable for his actions. This is why he has legal guardians - parents and in this case a nanny.
The mother has the responsability to ensure that her child has a safe environment to live in. An item such as that should be in a child-safe cupboard.
The nanny has the care of the child from X time to y time. It is her responsibility to ensure that the child is cared for during that time.
It is jointly the mothers fault for not having the medication where the child couldn't get it and for not alerting the nanny to the fact that medications are not locked away, and partially the nanny's fault in not ensuring the child was safely asleep.
ETA - it is considered that a child under & cannot reason and fathom consequences. A person is considered a minor in Victoria until 17, 18 in other states. You cannot charge a child under 12 with murder, but can charge them with lessor crimes - theft.
ShadyCharacter
06-02-2008, 19:04
A 4 year old wouldn't and shouldn't be expected to know any better.
That said, I don't think it matters who is to blame... it sounds like a combination of errors and poor judgment. I think all that matters is that the child is ok and measures have been put in place to make sure it doesn't happen again.
MummaBear03
06-02-2008, 19:06
:iagree: I think at times like this the last thing people should doing is playing the blame game. They should be focusing their energy on their child.
The point is that the child was being blamed for it while I don't think you can blame a 4 year old when he was left alone while the nanny (paid to watch him) was sleeping and he was able to get into the medicines. These things don't happen if poisons and medicines are locked away safely and the child is unable to access them, also the child should be in bed by then. I have a 4 year old and there's no way she would be roaming through the house while I'm sleeping. She has been trained to wake me up as soon as she wakes up and I wake up to her anyway but if for some reason that doesn't happen, she knows to wake me up. But the cleaning products are in a locked cabinet, the medicines are in the medicine cabinet which is locked at all times, the medicines that are in the fridge are in a medicine box that has a lock on it and she cannot get to the keys to access anything. Accidents do happen, but can be prevented and a small child should not be made accountable for getting into things like that.
I agree the medicine cabinet should be locked etc and it was poor form on the nanny's behalf not to make sure the kids were asleep etc and it is very wrong that the child is copping the blame. I still think they should be concentrating on their child getting better and maybe resolving the issue of the medicine cabinet etc rather than placing blame on each other and the child.
Mum&bubs
06-02-2008, 19:42
Why on earth would you blame the brother who was SLEEPING? That is just so stupid! I don't blame the little boy either, my nephew is 4 years old and I know he gets up to things when his parents aren't watching so I know how accidents like these can happen.
I'm just glad he's okay and I think no one is to blame and maybe it's just a lesson learnt, to lock the cabinet.
little mermaid
06-02-2008, 19:56
I don't think anyone should be blamed, it will just be a huge learning curve for the family to make sure that poisons and medications are locked away safely.
Who is to say that the nanny left him up, he most probably woke up and went for a wander. Do you expect the nanny to stay awake all night and watch him?? I hope not!:no:
Who is to say that the nanny left him up, he most probably woke up and went for a wander. Do you expect the nanny to stay awake all night and watch him?? I hope not!:no:
:iagree:
No reason to play the blame game here :no: it was an accident sure the medicine should be way way out of reach but it happened & trying to find someone to pin the guilt on is just plain silly :yes: he is alive & that is the important thing.
I wouldn't blame anyone. Accidents unfortunately happen.
I hope the little boy is okay.:yes:
:iagree:
What good is finding someone to blame. No one is perfect and accidents do happen.
MummaBear03
06-02-2008, 20:29
Maybe I'm just a hard-ar$e but if I was PAYING someone to look after my child, I would expect them to look after my child and if this happened they would be given notice and put off. I wouldn't have started blaming anyone except that they blamed the child, and so did other staff where I'm working. If a child in a childcare centre were getting into medicines who would be held accountable? I know for a fact heads would roll, so why is the babysitter allowed to just pass the blame to the child?
I agree accidents happen.
And who knows why the cabinet didn't have a lock. If the youngest child was four, you think they'd be past that whole 'getting into everything' stage. Most people I know with 4 year olds don't have a 'toddler proofed' house anymore. And some people don't childproof at all EVER.... believing that children just need to learn that there are some things they just don't tpuch.
It's not the Nanny's fault... it was 11pm, the kids WERE most likely alseep when she went to bed. My kids are always asleep when I go to bed.,... but that doesn't mean I haven't woken up at 1am to find them trying to play video games.
It's not the mother's fault, she was at work.
It's no ones fault.... it was an accident.
I hope the little boy is okay.
delirium
06-02-2008, 20:34
A 4 year old wouldn't and shouldn't be expected to know any better.
That said, I don't think it matters who is to blame... it sounds like a combination of errors and poor judgment. I think all that matters is that the child is ok and measures have been put in place to make sure it doesn't happen again.
:iagree: :yes:
SorenLorensen
06-02-2008, 20:55
I wouldn't blame anyone. Accidents unfortunately happen.
I hope the little boy is okay.:yes:
:iagree:
and i really don't believe it was the nanny's fault.
my 2 year old gets up in the middle of the night sometimes, i check her before i go to bed but that does not mean she is going to stay there all night(her paint all over our coffee table the other day proved that :laughing:).
she can also open the bath room door so im guessing a 4 year old would also be able to do so, so im not sure what closing it would have done to detour an inquisitive child (yet again a WHOLE box of tissues in the loo yesterday proves that one too) oh and we dont lock the door becuase she needs to be able to use the toilet.
good to know though that some would consider me not caring for my child right becuase she like to explore :thumbsup:.
things happen, children get into things they shouldn't and sometimes cause chaos . thats why my dad went gray early (i was a bugger of a kid, if it was not nailed down or shut i was into it :devil:)
as long as he is ok now is all that matters IMO, yes maybe a lock would have helped, maybe if the nanny slept outside his door.....if buts and maybes....we all learn somehow
Maybe I'm just a hard-ar$e but if I was PAYING someone to look after my child, I would expect them to look after my child and if this happened they would be given notice and put off. I wouldn't have started blaming anyone except that they blamed the child, and so did other staff where I'm working. If a child in a childcare centre were getting into medicines who would be held accountable? I know for a fact heads would roll, so why is the babysitter allowed to just pass the blame to the child?
Because her employer is allowing her to. It is an issue between them in an employee / employer relationship.
If they would rather be busy assigning blame than to work out why it happened and prevent it re-ocurring, they are spending their time and energy in the wrong place. But again, that is THEIR problem.
MummaBear03
06-02-2008, 21:12
My concern would be that if they are putting sole responsibility onto the child, they have not changed anything to make it safer. And maybe I am overprotective because I had latches at the tops of the doors in the laundry, bathroom and toilet when DD was younger to prevent accidents and now leave the toilet door open but I leave my door and her door open so if a light is turned on I'll wake up if I haven't already woken up by her getting out of bed. I still have a latch at the tops of the laundry door that stays locked at all times and one on the bathroom that is locked overnight. But that's just me. I just don't see that blaming the child (I mean, the child has been punished for it quite severely as if having his stomach pumped wasn't enough) is going to mean that things will be made safer and future accidents prevented. My DD knows not to touch things but because it's a health and safety issue until she's much older, I'll keep unsafe items out of her reach. My concern with the toilet is the fact that if she fell in she could drown. That's not an issue for us now so it doesn't stay locked, and she goes to the toilet through the night so it's unlocked for her convenience.
Shanaynay
06-02-2008, 21:13
The nanny may have thought the boy was asleep - it was 11pm after all - kids often go to sleep then get up thru the night, and if they are quiet there is no way of knowing.
I don't think anyone can really be blamed, especially not the the child (or his brother!) but hopefully in future the mother puts the medicine cabinet more out of reach or puts a lock on it.
forbetoel
06-02-2008, 21:16
I don't know who is to blame, but it is certainly not a 4 year old child!
lovinmybub
06-02-2008, 23:04
I don't think the child should be blamed. I worked in childcare 10 years before my bubba came along and I am crazy about having all poisons wayyyyyy out of reach. I think it's really important to have anything dangerous safely locked away 24 hours a day, then you never have to worry!:yes:
Poor kid.. :no:
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