birth certificates, child support and the fathers name

[chrysalis]

Just a question - a couple of things are often stated in this forum as the legal situation, and I can't find any info to verify either of them. The first is that the results of a paternity test can be used to insert the fathers name on a birth certificate (or, that a father can be "forced" to sign a BC). The second is that the fathers name is required on the BC in order to claim child support. However, Centrelink have told me this is not the case. Legal advice I have on both of those issues is that niether of them is not correct - the fathers name can only ever be added voluntarily by himself, and the name is not required on a BC to claim CS. Does anyone know if this varies by state? Or, has anyone got any links to government departments, agencies or websites that state this is the case? Or, has anyone actually experienced this personally? It is really confusing as what is often stated in this forum is not what I have been told by the Government agencies concerned.

[chrysalis]

Here is the email from the Births, Deaths and Marriages Registry when I asked if court action or DNa test results can be used to add the fathers name to a birth certificate "I can confirm that there is no legal stance for the father to sign the registration papers. Results of the DNA test can not be used to add the fathers details to a birth registration. If you require any further assistance, please contact us or visit our website at www.bdm.nsw.gov.au."

[wa mum of 4]

I went thru wot sounds like the same thing with my EX.

The fathers name can only be added to the BC voluntarily.
You can have him sign a STAT DEC (you can get them from the post office) stating he is the father. This is for CSA records only not the BC.

If you cant get that off him then you tell the child support agency and a DNA test can be organized (usually at his cost).

After this is done you can either have a personal agreement which you work out yourselves and you inform the CSA of what you are receiving. Or you can get them to garnish his wages.

The choice is yours not his!!!!

The legislation is the same in every state!

Good luck, I understand your frustrations I have been there. :hair:

:hugs:
Sarah

[chrysalis]

Yes, I would love his name on the BC but unless he puts it there himself, there is nothing I can do. And Centrelink told me the same thing re stat dec, and if he refuses that then they refer it to Legal Aid, it automatically goes to court and he has to undergo a paternity test which is used for CS but does not alter the BC. They also said I think, if you can prove cohabitation at the time of conception? There were at least a few ways to claim CS if his name was not on the BC. But, if he does not want to sign the BC he doesn't have to. Regardless, you can still claim CS.

[wa mum of 4]

Have you spoken to him at all regarding the situation?

And may I ask why you need his name on the BC? If not for CSA, is it for your own personal reasons? If so you should tell him that it might sway is decision.

[chrysalis]

I'm not really sure why I want his name on the BC so much. It just seems right that both parents are named, it is official and formally recognised. I feel very strongly that I want no blank spaces there. I also don't know why he said he wouldn't sign it. He may have thought it would prevent him from being liable to pay CS. It was one of the first things he told me when I informed him I was proceeding with the pregnancy despite his preference for termination. He knows now that I can still claim CS without his name on the BC. But I don't think he would sign it anyway. He is just like that, if it is anything to make me happy or make my life easier he would avoid it. He probably feels I am doing something against his wishes, therefore he will do anything he can that goes against my wishes.

[wa mum of 4]

YEP sounds like my EX..

I put a row of passport size pictures on my sons BC where the fathers details are supposed to be.

It is still recognized even if the fathers name isn't on the certificate.
I understand your need to have the fathers name on the certs but it passes.

Just think he misses out on the precious miracles and will regret it later.:cloud9:

You got the best part of the relationship...:yes:

[chrysalis]

heh, too true! I do feel like he gave me a very precious gift. Unfortunately, going on advice in this forum I told him I could force him to have a DNA test to sign the certificate!!! As I later found out, this is definately nott he case and it didn't help matters later when I wanted to discuss it with him ....

[MummaBear03]

The Father side of DD's birth certificate is blank, there's nothing I could do about it but I know who the father is and will be able to talk to her about it when she's older. Enrolling her into a Catholic school and saying we are a Catholic family raises eyebrows when they see the Birth Certificate and the Christening Certificate and the father is not listed on there. I had to explain it to the school about why the father's side is blank and that was tense. But apart from that, it's not all bad. It would simply look better if it wasn't blank.

[missie_mack]

If you are really insistant on having his name on the certificate you can take him to court for a "parentage order". It is however different action to just getting a paternity test order. From memory I think it has to go through the state supreme court. Could end up rather costly IMO and I have to wonder if it is really worth the money if he doesnt want to be on the certificate

Registering and changing names in NSW (http://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/545.htm)

[chrysalis]

oh, that's interesting, I was told the outcomes of court cases that determine paternity do not affect the BC - but I have not heard of a parentage order. I will explore that further, thanks for that info.

[MummaBear03]

I have found this thread really helpful too.

I really want FOB on the birth certificate, I want my child to be baptised and go to Catholic school so now i'm feeling I want it on there even more. I'm hoping when he sees baby he'll sign - I think he will - I mean he's been awful to me but I don't think he'll be awful to her when he finally sees her. But on the other hand - who the heck knows eh!
My child is baptised and will be going to a Catholic school, having him on the bc makes no difference to these, although I did have to explain to them why it was blank. Well, I didn't have to, but the Principal did question it. I think I would have been questioned even if he was on there since we have different last names, my dd has my last name, and her father and i were never married so I don't think I would have gotten away without question either way.

[chrysalis]

Sometimes I regret telling him I wanted it on there ... here is another link on CS payments from the same site missie_mack mentioned (including how to get CS when proof of parentage is required) http://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/594.htm

[chrysalis]

hhhmmmm, sometimes if they just want to make it hard they can ... ok, I read the pamphlets on that website (very good info there) and it appears that a BC can sometimes be modified later to add the fathers name if they have a) signed a stat dec or b) had the court order declaring parentage. These are both steps that may be taken if they refuse to sign the BC and you want to claim CS. So, if they refuse to sign the BC and you take either of those steps later to claim CS then you can apply to the births, deaths and marriages registry to add the fathers name to the BC (it is not always the case that it will be added though). That is, if you end up with the stat dec or court order in order to claim CS, you can use that info to then go back to the births, deaths and marriages registry to see if you can add the fathers name. Talk about complicated!

[missie_mack]

I think the question about a unknown father on a birth certificate for any private school is because they ideally have to have the nod from both parents.

I know a friend of my Mums who was desperate to have her daughter attend our local catholic school. However the father (who didnt pay child support or even see the daughter) didnt. I cant remember how the school came to know but because of it she wasnt accepted :thumbsdown:

I really believe that all children have the right to know who their father is. Even if the father doesnt want the child to know him.

However if it were I in similar circumstances as listed I probably wouldnt have the name on the certificate. A non interested father can cause problems later in life with passports and all sorts where permission of both parents are required. I know I am still mad that I wasnt able to go on the schoolies cruise with all my friends from school. I was 17 and needed my fathers permission who a) I had no regular contact with and b) refused to sign to punish my mother over the issues with child support. I know I may feel differently if it were actually me in your shoes especially as I am not a single parent :)

[DivinelySophistimicated]

Unfortunately, going on advice in this forum I told him I could force him to have a DNA test to sign the certificate!!! As I later found out, this is definately nott he case and it didn't help matters later when I wanted to discuss it with him ....

You sound like your evry angry with the advice you read on bubhub.

None of the examples or statements made can be assured to be 100% accurate as we do not work for CSA or birth deaths and marriages unless we state so.

Instead of making accusations at all of us, you should have researched before going off what you read on a forum.

[MummaBear03]

Many of us have stated on many occasions that you can only have his name on the birth certificate if he agrees to sign, unless you are a married couple. If he doesn't want to sign, he will not be listed. Simple as that. BTW Catholic schools are not Private schools, the 2 are very different :)

[missie_mack]

BTW Catholic schools are not Private schools, the 2 are very different :)

Oh thats a another debate :laughing: I can assure you at least some catholic schools are private schools (some with boarding and ran outside the standard catholic education office) as some are very exclusive and expensive but like I said a whole other thread :)

[motherdearest]

Hi there, i went thought this last year with the whole centrelink,legal aid fiasco. From my experience if you use thoses service you will need to go court to establish paternity via a dna test if he is unwilling to sign a birth certificate or stats dec. Once he is established as the father by the court he is legally recognised as the father and most likely will have to sign a stats dec, thus you can then recive cs from him. He does not NEED to sign a bc to establish paternity. in my case i actually rang the 'sperm doner' to ask for him to sign the bc now he has the dna test to prove he IS the father, he is more than willing to do it whereas before the dna test he refused. I guess some guys want to be 100% sure before they sign the bc. Although there dosnt need to be a fathers name on the bc if you do try to apply for a passport for your child its very complicated process as they require any parent with responsibliity for the child to sign for it, if he pays cs that counts as parental responsibilty. Im going though the passport thing right now and if the 'sperm doner' refuses to sign for it there will be four forms i wll need to fill out and they will have to attempt to contact him aswell. If you dont plan to travel overseas than i guess you dont have anything to worry about. Anyways goodluck with everything, my heart goes out to you as i know this is an emotional time.

[MummaBear03]

Oh thats a another debate :laughing: I can assure you at least some catholic schools are private schools (some with boarding and ran outside the standard catholic education office) as some are very exclusive and expensive but like I said a whole other thread :)
If they are not run by Catholic Education, they are not Catholic schools, they are private schools who teach Catholic as the religion :) I've worked in education for a very long time and it annoys me that people think I'm sending dd to a private school when I'm sending her to a Catholic school. Some are more expensive than others, the one my brother works at is a very expensive one and the parents are brain surgeons and so on, have 3 storey mansions, drive the flashest cars in town, have memberships to all the elite clubs around town, but it's still a Catholic school and if someone approached them who had no money or assets they would have to drop the fees to suit that family and provide a Catholic education to the child/ren. I actually don't know of any private schools that are Catholic. Most of them are non-denominational or don't have any religion. I went to a Catholic school that is also a boarding school, and the one I'm looking at for my DD when she starts year 8 is also a boarding school and it's not a private school. It's very expensive, extremely expensive, so I'd have to talk to them about dropping the fees so she can attend that school if that's where I choose for her to go to.

[chrysalis]

kirbyd87 - did I sound angry? Not sure where you read that into it ... no, not angry but very keen to establish the facts of the situation. I think anyone giving others advice, especially on legal sitautions, needs to be very careful that it is accurate. I did check myself, and do agree that what you read on the net can be wrong! (obviously) But when you have many people telling you that this is the situation, then you tend to believe it. Unfortunately, it seems most of those people don't have direct personal experience and are just repeating what they have previously read on bubhub. It's become a myth that is constantly stated as reality ... which is very dangerous to do when advising vulnerable people who have no info on the matter. I think it is best to get the facts clearly stated, and I don't think that means you are angry :)

[MummaBear03]

Hi there, i went thought this last year with the whole centrelink,legal aid fiasco. From my experience if you use thoses service you will need to go court to establish paternity via a dna test if he is unwilling to sign a birth certificate or stats dec. Once he is established as the father by the court he is legally recognised as the father and most likely will have to sign a stats dec, thus you can then recive cs from him. He does not NEED to sign a bc to establish paternity. in my case i actually rang the 'sperm doner' to ask for him to sign the bc now he has the dna test to prove he IS the father, he is more than willing to do it whereas before the dna test he refused. I guess some guys want to be 100% sure before they sign the bc. Although there dosnt need to be a fathers name on the bc if you do try to apply for a passport for your child its very complicated process as they require any parent with responsibliity for the child to sign for it, if he pays cs that counts as parental responsibilty. Im going though the passport thing right now and if the 'sperm doner' refuses to sign for it there will be four forms i wll need to fill out and they will have to attempt to contact him aswell. If you dont plan to travel overseas than i guess you dont have anything to worry about. Anyways goodluck with everything, my heart goes out to you as i know this is an emotional time.
Does this mean if he doesn't pay child support, isn't on the birth certificate, but a DNA test has been done to prove paternity, would that be seen as parental responsibility? I'm just curious to know how much responsibility they need to take before it's seen as being responsible. I guess what I'm asking is if someone who doesn't have access, doesn't pay child support, is not listed on the bc, but is recognised as the father, still has a say over things in the child's life?

[motherdearest]

hey mummabear03 im not 100% on this but from what i gather, the man has to be legally recognised to have any say on the childs life. There are dna testings that are not legally binding and thoes that are. i belive if you had a dna test and is not legally binding than he has no parental right to the child as it is not valid to any agency eg certrelink, he would need to prove dna (a legally binding one) via the courts before he can acsess the child. If the test is lagally binding than he must pay child support as required by law thus legally he has grounds to acsess the child if he wishes. I guess what im trying to say is that he would have parental responsibilities if he is legally recognised as the father, if not than he has no parental responsibility for the child.

[missie_mack]

I've worked in education for a very long time and it annoys me that people think I'm sending dd to a private school when I'm sending her to a Catholic school.

This private school directory (http://www.privateschoolsdirectory.com.au/)might help :)
My little local catholic school is listed as well as the catholic private school that my DH is currently teaching at.

[MummaBear03]

This private school directory (http://www.privateschoolsdirectory.com.au/)might help :)
My little local catholic school is listed as well as the catholic private school that my DH is currently teaching at.
Those directories are for people who don't understand we have 4 varieties of the education system in this country - State, Private, Catholic, Home Schooling ;)

[Tillismama]

I only just found this read and didn't read through everything so i'm unsure about what has been said in total BUT ..
I've just been thru DNA testing recently ..
I could not claim child support because i was never married, defacto etc with my daughters father.
The DNA results are then NOT enough for Child Support to go on .. I either had to get a Stat Dec signed or his name on her birth certificate.
I rang up births/deaths/marriages and asked them .. they sent me forms and to add a fathers name to a birth certificate WITH the fathers signature was $40 or something and to do it with JUST DNA results and no signature was $150.
I never bothered putting it on there and he was happy to sign the Stat Dec.


Unsure if the laws are different State To State .. But Child Support would be happy to help, Birth/Deaths/Marriages are also really helpful and even the legal aid hotline.

[MummaBear03]

That's very interesting because what happens if he doesn't sign a Stat Dec? And doesn't that make it too easy for any father to not pay child support? Even if a DNA test is done to prove paternity, what kind of person would willingly pay child support if they could avoid it simply by not signing a Stat Dec? Not arguing the point, just curious to know as I know of so many fathers who are only paying child support because they have to and have gone so far as to quit their job or hide their income to only pay the lowest amount they legally have to.

[RedPanda]

Maybe a new thread needs to be started Private/Public/Catholic schools ... Mods - maybe you can help out here!

I won't start the thread myself, but it sounds like a good idea to start a separate thread BG. This one is going off-track a bit. For those who are interested, maybe start one in the Schools category? That way you may get some teachers/others in the know involved.

Cheers,
Hazellew

[chrysalis]

mummabear03, exactly! It surprises me how many people think guys can just avoid paying CS by not signing the BC or by not signing the stat dec. Simple common sense points to this loophole being thought of by the agencies responsible. Think about, if it was *that* easy, then many women and children would be disadvantaged unfairly. The link I gave before on CS covers this http://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/594.htm

That booklet states the process and how CS is claimed when parentage needs to be proved. Tillismama, I'm not sure why the other options weren't available to you? But if he does not sign a stat dec or a BC you can get a parentage order from the court. Basically, my understanding is that there is a way for everyone to claim CS as long as they know the identity of the father - regardless of whether he signs the BC, stat dec or even if he doesn't show up to court.

I think one of the problems is that this area is so complicated - which makes it even more important to know the facts, know your rights, know the process and be proactive in pursuing it. Check what you are told, even if it is someone working for a government agency. They may not always know of all the alternatives available, or may only be familiar with the standard procedures. But I think in these sorts of cases we do need to be informed and assertive. And that's also why sharing our experiences and info is really useful!!

[chrysalis]

The CS for me would be so measly anyway - $20 a month or something! Big deal. I'm more interested in the BC and how to have the parentage legally recognised. I know now that there are options available for that, either from the parentage report or court order even though it is not always guaranteed. At least I can follow it up later ... to me, that is the main thing.

"Can the birth certificate be changed with a parentage testing report or a court order?
Yes, in some cases. Contact the Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages to find out how to do this." pg8 of the CS booklet http://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/Publications/files_cl.child_parentage_test.pdf

[Tillismama]

Bronny Grace :
He was excited when I first told him i was pregnant. Then he went really cold. Then he was excited it was girl .. then he went cold again. Then I didn't hear from him until I was about 36 weeks pregnant .. he demanded DNA then.
Then he was excited when she was born but went cold after I sent him pictures.
He's never ever seen her face to face .. and since the DNA results have come back I haven't heard from him at all.
The whole situation is really really sad but my daughter is not really aware of it, never has asked questions, i wrote a book for her with all his pictures and memories from him. So when the time is write all the information is there for her.

[sunnyflower]

Well tutti fritti,i am really confused.

My child;s father initially refused to sign the birth certificate and i applied for child support and was told in no uncertain terms that the fathers signiture had to be on the certificate otherwise i could have said anyone was the father.

i threatened him with legal action and he signed it.

with the passport thing,my childs father also refused to sign that too and i had to go to court to get a court order to allow my child to get a passport without his signiture.he never pays child support anyway and never sees my child so when the judge found that out he was happy to grant the passport.

maybe go to legal aid and get some legal advice,maybe it does vary from state to state.

[chrysalis]

sunnyflower, if they told you that you needed the name on the BC or you couldn't claim CS, why did you threaten legal action? What was that going to achieve if his name wasn't on the BC and that is the sole way for you to claim CS? I'm just confused that if you claim you needed the name on the BC, what is the legal action for - to force him to sign it? Or to get CS another way ... which is what happens when he doesn't sign the BC!!! In other words, court action is one alternative when he doesn't sign the BC. It doesn't mean you won't get CS, it means you need to follow a different path to get it.

I have gone to legal aid, centrelink, births, deaths & marriages (legal section) and also a private lawyer. They have all told me the same thing. You do not need the fathers name on the BC to claim CS. This is all clearly outlined in the link to the booklet I provided previously http://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/594.htm This legal situation is national, it does not vary by state.

[chrysalis]

This is what the process is to get CS (as summarised from the booklet drafted by legal aid):

To get CS, you need to either prove parentage or have a presumption of parentage:

Proof of parentage can be from a) a stat dec b) a signed form sent to births, deaths and marriages c) a court order

Presumption of parentage is made when a) the child was born during marriage b) you lived together before the child was born c) a person is named as parent during court action or on a birth certificate d) a person has signed an acknowledgment of paternity e) a person has adopted a child

If you do not have proof or presumption of parentage then you need to:

STEP 1: apply to CSA for CS

STEP 2: application rejected because proof of parentage is required

STEP 3: apply for court order

STEP 4 and 5: contact other parent. Other parent either signs proof of parentage OR disputes/denies paternity. In that case, the person is required to have DNA testing at his own expense

STEP 6: court makes order for assessment of CS

STEP 7: CS assessment made from the date of your application