Amniocentisis to test or not to test........ [Archive] - Bub Hub Pregnancy & Parenting Forum

veve

16-03-2006, 08:53 PM

this is a touchy topic for me... as I was in the situation where it was recommended/ offered.

The 18 week scan of my DS came back with a few indicators of possible Down syndrome... ( I was a little shocked... teary and confused) - the guy doing the scan offered us lots of info (lots and lots of bits of paper!!) and left us alone to chat (DH and I)....

all I could see on the bit of paper was the 3% chance of miscarriage that occurs with the process.. I could not see anything else on the document - it jumped out at me..

since there was NO WAY I was aborting my baby - down syndrome or not - I didn't see the point in risking losing my precious bubs... just to find out NOW if he/ she was impaired..

at the 28 week scan we were given the all clear (that was a LOOONG 10 week wait though) and my spunky little DS was born in november ... no impairments at all..

how scary!!! we could have lost a perfectly healthy baby boy... I will never have that test done... it is too invasive for my liking..

sorry this post is so long!!! :rolleyes:

(annb - I'm sure the decision was still tough for you .. and I totally understand your reasoning :hugs: )
xxx

xkwzit

16-03-2006, 09:10 PM

Hi

I'd always thought I would have the test, only if previous tests had shown there might be a problem. My reasoning would be that I want to prepare for the arrival of a special needs child. I would not choose to abort, but I wouldn't want their birthday to be "marred" by an undesirable surprise (marred is not the right word - but its late :o ). I would prob choose to be a permanent SAHM and would want to be able to tell ppl at work that.

I have not ever been in that position though and so have never been given any info on the risk of amnio - so thus far that has not figured in my reasoning. It may have changed my mind...

SassyMummy

16-03-2006, 11:13 PM

I didn't bother because I was 18 when I conceived, and 19 when I had her...and I just didn't see that there was much risk. Also - considering it doesn't check for many abnormalities, I figured it was kind of a waste of time...even if I had it she could have come out with something else wrong.

I also didn't like the idea of a needle in my uterus...

the_queen

17-03-2006, 07:43 AM

At my 18 week u/s with Vallerie, they detected her bilateril cleft lip. While of course this was distressing and scary for us both (neither of us knew what a cleft lip was) and there were a million different questions and concerns going through our heads, there was one thing the specialist said which stuck in my mind: It could be an indicator of a bigger chromosomal abnormality. So, it wasn't enough that we had to stress about future surgeries, breastfeeding challenges, speech impediments, social implications - but also it could just be the tip of the iceberg!! They offered me an amniocentisis. I said I had to think about it - like most of you have said, I wouldn't have aborted the baby, regardless of any "special needs". I believe that God wouldn't give me more than I could handle. So my initial reaction was, no absolutely not, the miscarriage risk is too high, I wouldn't do anything about a "bad" result anyway - there's no way I'm having an amnio.
But as in all cases like this, it wasn't that simple. I was 21 years old, the pregnancy, while it was wanted, was kinda "out of the blue" and in retrospect I wasn't in a mature-enough state of mind to deal with it. My relationship with DH (we weren't married yet at that point) had gotten quite bad since I'd gotten pregnant. My DH's father had just been diagnosed with end-stage terminal cancer (bloody men in that family will NOT go to the doctor until it's way way too late), I was dealing with my own family issues (my mother has anxiety disorders, when I told my dad about bub's cleft lip the first thing he said was "lets not tell your mum, this will upset her :banghead:") I had borderline high blood pressure and was basically just not dealing with the news of the cleft very well.
My best friend was so supportive, she got all this info about clefts and let me cry on her shoulder. And she said something which really hit home: maybe if you know for sure what the whole situation is, then you won't feel so stressed about it. And she was right. So I had the amnio. The results came back clear. And I breathed a gigantic sigh of relief and then just concentrated on how we'd deal with the cleft stuff. If I hadn't had the amnio, I would have been stressing and anxious for the last half of the pregnancy. I still was worried about the cleft stuff - but there was no "unknown factor" anymore, so I felt more in control of what was happening. If that makes any sense :rolleyes: .
Sorry this is so long!! Obviously this is an issue close to my heart and I just wanted to put my 2cents in. Thanks for listening!:)

shed

17-03-2006, 07:50 AM

My friend had an amnio because she is 36 and missed the date for her nuchal scan because she didn't realise she was pregnant.

She had no problems with it. You need a skilled operator and the chances of miscarrying are low. Some people have a sensitive uterus and will miscarry every time but you can't know if you have one of these uterus types beforehand.

I hate even having the ultrasound scans, I prefer to live in a world of not knowing, but once they put the thought in your head that something may be wrong its natural to want it confirmed either way.

There is nothing "wrong" with having an amnio. I don't think anyone makes the decision lightly, so if you need one you need one. For whatever reason.

DjF

17-03-2006, 11:00 AM

Hi - i know this thread is about amnios and if to or not to - but Queen (hehe) i would like to know (if its not too personal) how you delt with Valleries cleft lip. Im just very interested in your story - did she have to have surgery? Another reason i ask is because a few weeks ago they had a make over show on late at night (hope this doesnt sound superficial, not trying to) and twin girls who both had cleft lips were operated on - i think they were in their 30's though. Does anybody know why they happen?
D
ps - i at this point wouldnt know how i feel about an amnio - i guess i would have to be in the position of having to know something is wrong (or potentially wrong) and weigh up the pros and cons too.

the_queen

17-03-2006, 11:09 AM

Hi D
I'll PM you :)

Beany

17-03-2006, 12:28 PM

aggero

18-03-2006, 09:47 AM

Beany, I agree with your response. Of course this is a hypothetical for me as I have never been pregnant, though that WILL change this month and :fingerscrossed:

mum2four

19-03-2006, 04:29 PM

I've had it done for both this and my last pgcy. Mine was done so that they would know if my baby had mine or it's fathers blood, if dad's blood then monitoring has to be very close, if mine then nothing more needs to be done. So mine was done for bubs own safety, unfortunately the results weren't what we had haoped and both time the baby had my DH's blood putting me into high risk category for both pgcies :thumbsdown:

Oscar's mum

19-03-2006, 04:31 PM

I don't like the risk of a m/c when you get the amnio so I would not have it done!

Oscar's mum

19-03-2006, 04:32 PM

mum2four

19-03-2006, 07:43 PM

During DS1's birth the dr cut the cord while he was still inside so our blood mixed (he also has DH's blood Kell & c+), problem is I am Kell and c- so when our 2 bloods mixed I developed anibodies to those 2 antigens (just like RH- mums and RH+ bubs), DH has a 50/50 chance of passing on these antigens to any children, our last DS had them too and so does this one, basically it means my baby is at risk of becomming anemic (due due my antibodies trying to attack babies red blood cells )which can lead to more serious things and although I don't like to think about it, fetal death. It's called hemolytic disease of the newborn/fetus and requires careful monitoring throughout the pgcy, if baby becomes too anemic they will have to transfuse through the umbilical cord to give fresh packed red blood cells to keep him alive until it's safe to deliver, then possibly more transfusions once born, NICU etc. Hopefully :fingerscrossed: this baby will be a fighter as my last DS was and we won't need transfusions and the like. But they had to do the amnio to check the Kell status of the baby by running DNA tests on the amniotic fluid (the Kell antibody worries them more than the c as it's harder to monitor and is more likely to be fatal), we got the result last week that bub is positive for it :crying: we had really hoped it would have my blood, this makes 3 babies in a row that have all gotten the Kell and c antigen from DH :eek:

Anyway, hope that sort of explains it, it is very hard to explain and very technical.

Eternity

22-03-2006, 07:37 PM

I would not have it done as there is a risk of miscarriage anythink that could harm my baby is not a option in my world. I believe in god too and I strongly believe he wouldnt give me more than I could handle however its your baby your choice but after the last 15 weeks of bonding with my unborn baby I could never consider having a test that could kill my little one

Denise+1

23-03-2006, 01:23 PM

I haven't have nuchal scan yet (2 weeks) but because I'm 37, my GP told me it was probably better to have either a CVS or amnio. Both sound scary to me (both because I'm terrified of needles and because of miscarriage risk) and really I don't think I'll be able to decide until after the n/scan, but if I came in as high risk, I'd probably need to find out if I could.

kadownie

06-04-2006, 07:14 AM

I wouldn't get it done. Reason being- it wouldn't make any difference to whether I decide to continue my pregnancy anyway- and it's so so risky. The stats of miscarriage after it are quite high. I've also done a bit of reading on it and the false postitive results are scary. So I would rather enjoy my pregnancy, give my baby good vibes (as oppossed to worry that the amnio involves) and take whatever bubby I'm given- they're all special and have something to teach us!

jessgray

06-04-2006, 07:49 AM

i was offered the test when i was preg with my son and i refused after i was told about the risks.before we had been offered the test me and DP had talked about what we would do if we had a child with a deformity or disability,we deicded we would love the child exactly the same as we would any other children we would have:) i told the doctor that and he was a abit shocked.i wont be getting the test this time round either.

kadownie

06-04-2006, 07:56 AM

I'm sorry Shed, but I disagree about the risks of miscarriage being low. I guess it depends on what you consider low to be.

'Amniocentisis is recognised to cause miscarriage in between one in 50 and one in 200 pregnant women overall, and this miscarriage can occur up to three weeks, or even later, after the procedure. In one study involving women under 35, the majority of procudure related miscarriages occured after 28 weeks.

More experienced operaters tend to have lower miscarriage rates. One large study indicated that the risk of miscarriage might be higher in older women. amoung women who have experienced bleeding in the pregnancy, and amoung women who have had more than three previous early miscarriages or abortions and/or a late miscarriage or abortion. In this study, women over 40 had a risk of misscarriage after amniocentisis of around 5 percent, while those over 40 who had experienced bleeding had a 10 percent chance of miscarriage. Women over 40 with previous miscarriages or abortions, as above, had a 20 percent chance after the procedure.'

source: Sarah Buckley, 2005, "Gentle Birth, Gentle Mothering"

the_queen

06-04-2006, 08:04 AM

I don't think anyone makes the decision lightly, so if you need one you need one. For whatever reason.

Well said Shed :yelclap: :yelclap: :yelclap:

Nobody ever just says "oh hey, I've heard there's some kind of amnio thingy, let's just have it without looking into all the details about it."

It's easy enough to say hypothetically "I would never ever have the test" if you've never been put in the real-life position to actually have to decide.

MotherOfPearl

06-04-2006, 08:31 AM

If I had a high risk result from the nuchal scan and blood test I definately would have an amnio. We would really have to change our lives if we were to have a child with Downs, ie move for a start! So we'd need to know as much and as soon as possible.
NOT trying to get in to a full scale debate with anyone on this issue, but our understanding was the mc rate was quiet low and maybe as it's usually only done on high risk fetuses they may have mc'd anyway. If you disagree with this please don't attack me, this was just my view.

Briannabear

06-04-2006, 09:20 AM

BJelly

06-04-2006, 10:52 AM

I don't think I would for three main reasons:
1) Because the risk of miscarriage is so high - last figures I heard were 1% but that's still too high IMHO.

2) So many tests that are used to indicate a need for amnio give so many false positives - as many people here at BH have attested on this and other threads.

3) Because I couldn't abort - by the time you can have an amnio, I think I'd be too bonded already and I'd take my chances - I know having a special needs child would be hard - and it's something no one would choose to deal with, but there are no guarantees in life anyway - any child could become a special needs child through accident ,injury, or disease at any time during childhood or even adulthood - I believe it's part of what you sign up for when you decide you want to be a parent.

kadownie

06-04-2006, 01:19 PM

It's easy enough to say hypothetically "I would never ever have the test" if you've never been put in the real-life position to actually have to decide[/I].

Well- I would say- if we've had a baby then we've all been in that situation- the tests are available to us all. In saying that though- I didn't have any of the screening tests because it wouldn't make a difference to me whether or not my baby had a disability- what I mean is I wouldn't have terminated my pregnancy regardless of the result. Also I didn't want to unnecessarily stress my unborn child because I was stressed- just my opinion.

Briannabear

06-04-2006, 01:40 PM

I agree with you Kylie.

the_queen

06-04-2006, 01:44 PM

Well- I would say- if we've had a baby then we've all been in that situation- the tests are available to us all. In saying that though- I didn't have any of the screening tests because it wouldn't make a difference to me whether or not my baby had a disability- what I mean is I wouldn't have terminated my pregnancy regardless of the result. Also I didn't want to unnecessarily stress my unborn child because I was stressed- just my opinion.

Well I've been in the situation where my baby definately had a congenital abnormality, with the possibility of futher more extensive problems.

I didn't want to unnecessarily stress my unborn child either. Nobody wants to do that. I could sit here and justify why I had an amnio, but I won't.

My point is that until you've walked a mile in somebody elses shoes, don't judge what decisions they have been forced to make.

Just my opinion.

kadownie

06-04-2006, 05:36 PM

'the queen' I didn't mean to upset you at all- I'm not judging your decision to have an anmio- I think that the tests are available for those who choose them- but I do believe that you need to informed about what it means when you start down the path of screenings and tests. Some people take whatever is offered in pregnancy and do not do independent research- I'm not suggesting that is you, but I do know many people who just do what their doctor tells them- which isn't always bad, just not always good.

You are correct in saying that I haven't walked in your shoes- but I did choose not to put myself in a position where I would have to choose an amnio as well. I have twins and had to refuse many tests while I was pregnant. And a twin pregnancy is not an easy matter either- so please don't judge me for not making the same choices as you. We are all able to do what we believe is best for ourselves and our babies.

;)

Lunar

06-04-2006, 06:42 PM

Up until a few weeks ago, my answer would have been "no, I wouldn't test because it would be irrelevant: I wouldn't abort".

Since being pregnant, though, and thinking heavily about the future, I have changed my mind. If I fell into a high risk category, if the other tests determined a high risk of down syndrome or any other chronic disability that would prevent their independent functioning in society, I would have the amniocentesis. And if that came back positive, I would probably abort. I certainly hope I would have the strength to do so, anyway.

My reasoning behind this is simple: while I would love and care for the child when it is born, while its disability/disabilities would not change that fact, there is a chance that I might not be able to be there. I could fall ill, I could die. Who'd look after the child then? Sure, that risk exists with a healthy child too, but a healthy child is more likely to be able to find willing caregivers, they'll require less, they'll be able to function.

So yes, if the risk was great enough, and I was willing to go through with the tough decision afterwards, I would have the test.

text deleted by moderator

I was 19 when I fell with Em and 20 when she was born. She has Down syndrome and she WILL be independant and have a job when she is older I have NO DOUBT. You obviously have not met any child of late with down syndrome or any other MILD intellectual disability. Whilst ds (down syndrome) has varying degrees ther is no way of telling by ultrasound, looking at features or amnio that can tell you if there is a mild, moderate or severe intellectual disability.
You actually have to wait until the child gets assessed for school so around the age of 4-5yrs is when you find out where they are at.

I had an amnio with Em but only because I was put on the spot and was strongly advised to have 1. That's when I found out and alot, ALOT of Dr's where telling me to abort but I loved her so much already how could I do that to another life.... a life that was so much a part of me...?

When I fell pg again I only ever had the NT scan and that came back low risk and sure enough my second DD Kailah was born nearly 4 weeks ago with no ds or anything else for that matter. If she did happen to be born with ds of course I would be upset initially but I would get on with life and love her just as much as if she was not born with ds.

And having said all that I would like to add that I have a very loving supportive family that would care for her in a heart beat.... they would probably all fight over her as they all think she is the bees knees:p . Yes she is a bit extra work but the rewards are so much greater.

I think everyone who is contemplating having an amnio, really look at why they are doing it and if something was picked up would they act on it and why.... not what others will think, how you would feel and how you would feel if you aborted a baby...you know nothing is 100% and they do get it wrong sometimes and you could be aborting a healthy baby, then how would you feel.... just some things that you should think about before having it done.

zafyrezmummy

06-04-2006, 09:53 PM

I'm still not sure whether i would do it or not. When i was pregnant last time i had the nuchal scan done at the 10, 11week point, i had started bleeding when i was 8weeks and had already had a few ultrasounds. i had very much already bonded with my bub,
the tests came back as etremely high risk and they wanted me to get the amnio.
I really did not know what to do.
but I had an incomplete m/c at 14weeks before any tests could be done though, so i never had to make the decision.
But, i'm still not sure, but after losing one bub already, i think i probably would not do it, as i could never bring myself to abort a child, no matter what. plus i would not want to make my risk of m/c bigger than it probably already is.

-dimarie

livvyoz

24-06-2006, 09:09 PM

On the topic of "to test or not to test" I thought I would add my 2 cents worth.

I lost my twin boys (IVF) at 25.5 weeks in July 2003 (they were stillborn). 10 months later we fell pregnant "naturally with no assistance" out of the blue. We had our 13 week nuchal fold scan and the statistics based on our babies neck measurements came back as 1 in 4080 chance of having a baby with Down Syndrome. No further tests were recommended. My age at the time was 32.

In Feb 2005 our little girl was born via c-section. She was born with a Congenital Heart Disease (known as Tetralogy of Fallot). She had heart surgery when she was 4 days old. When she was 5 days old we were told she also has Down Syndrome.

Hence I think it is very important to understand that the nuchal fold scan is simply a statistical test (nothing more nothing less). And regardless of your age or the test results, anything is possible. The Amnio is the only conclusive test that can be done.

I think if we had been given the option of having an Amnio I would still not have had it done. Having lost 2 perfectly healthy baby boys to stillbirth I knew in my heart that this subsequent baby was a gift. And I'm glad she is my gift.

As we've learnt, children with Down Syndrome do not have a 'chronic disability' (as I believe one forum participant indicated). They simply have 3 of the number 21 chromosone (Trisomy 21). Yes they are likely to have mental and physical developmental delays, but they will do "everything eventually". The old fashion way of thinking that "these children cannot be educated" is ancient history. My little girl, thank goodness is doing extremely well verbally and mentally.

On the health front she has had a few set-backs (open heart surgery at age 9 months). She has another small heart procedure coming up in the next few months.

I suppose that children of all sorts are sent to teach us compassion, patience, tolerance, understanding, and above all unconditional love.

Sorry to drag this out, but being an advocate for my gorgeous girl is another one of those things that she is teaching me to do.

Warmest regards to all.

SammieSnail

24-06-2006, 11:29 PM

Wow Sonia and Kris :hugs:
I'm very much in awe of your courage and strength. Your daughters are very lucky to have such beautiful mums....and as you said they are not burdens, they are gifts who will have quality of life, and will touch and educate those around them....most definitely :yes:

When our OB gave us the option of having a NT scan I was amazed, had never thought this kind of test was possible....after reading the booklet I realised the high incidence of 'false' positives etc.....and thought whats the point? why should we get it done when even if the results came back as high risk we wouldn't have an amnio....not just due to risks of miscarriage....but we would not abort our child anyway....

CarolineF

25-06-2006, 09:40 AM

I've had 2 done.

In my first pregnancy a screening test came back with a risk of 1:28. I did not know what i would do if the child had a abnormality - but I wanted to know either way. I'm glad I had it done.

This time round, I was scheduled for the nuchal, then saw my OB who said that once you have had an amnio you generally don't feel secure with just the nuchal as it is like "Melbourne Cup odds" - and he was right. So I cancelled the nuchal and went straight to the amnio a few weeks later.

don;t regret it. I know i'm high risk (38) and I want to know either way. The risk and not knowing was far worse for mw than the risk of miscarriage.

I suppose I would say 2 things to those who are considering it:

1. if you would never terminate even if you did carry a child with Down's etc then there may be little point in having it done (unless of course you wanted to be emotionally prepared)

2. check first if you fall into a high risk category. It is a procedure after all and there can sometimes be consequences.

It is not a "routine" test in that its not offered to all. But a doctor who does hundreds a year will have a much less miscarriage rate than an inexperienced one. Don;t be afraid to ask the doctor performing it. If you can't get a clear answer from the clinic/hospital - book elsewhere.

mich71

25-06-2006, 09:49 AM

i was booked for that twice because dom was to big for trans nuc u/s i didnt go to either one id suffered to many losses to risk a test like that its a personal choise

defaipe

25-06-2006, 10:38 AM

I personally wouldnt get one done. Im not even getting the Nuchal Scan done.
As for the amnio. test it just seems too risky for me.
(I guess my DH and I have age on our side so its just not a concern for us personally)

im with you. with my my girls i refused to have the nuchal scan also. im better off not knowing, purely coz i would never abort anyway.

OopsieDaisy

26-06-2006, 07:29 AM

I've never had either and don't intend to in the future.

arthursmum

26-06-2006, 08:52 PM

Well- I would say- if we've had a baby then we've all been in that situation- the tests are available to us all. In saying that though- I didn't have any of the screening tests because it wouldn't make a difference to me whether or not my baby had a disability- what I mean is I wouldn't have terminated my pregnancy regardless of the result. Also I didn't want to unnecessarily stress my unborn child because I was stressed- just my opinion.

I had the screening tests when i was pregnant, not at all with the idea that i would terminate the pregnancy if things weren't ok. I would use the screening tests again to get used to the idea of a special needs child and to enable us to prepare well before bubbie arrived.
I imagine that would have an amnio if the screening tests indicated a possible problem.

nemosmum

27-06-2006, 05:46 AM

My answer to the original poster is

No

My reasons

I am young (ish lol) and am not in a high risk category
But if i was older and in a high risk category i still would probably answer no as im a strong beliver in fate

flib

27-06-2006, 10:57 PM

I certainly wouldn't have it done just because I was over 35. I just don't think it's necessary.

I had the nuchal translucency test done and would have only had an amnio if I was in the risk group 1 in 200. My results at 40 came back at 1 in 534. Not brilliant but my sensible Ob said that it was a good result and he'd only recommend amnio if the chance of an abnormality was higher than the chance of a miscarriage. I agreed with him. I had my 19 week ultrasound recently and everything looks great.

I wouldn't abort if I got bad news but I'd like to prepare myself - especially since we have 2 other children already. I certainly wouldn't have a CVS as I think it's just too invasive.

Flib

col

12-02-2007, 07:45 AM

ooops!!

col

12-02-2007, 07:57 AM

I had one, probably main reason was I was 38 and there was that risk, and also selfish as I may sound I really didnt think it was fair to have a special needs child with me being older and being over here without family support - thats only my opinion Im sure plenty will disagree
Anyway it didnt hurt, nothing went wrong, Id do it again in a heartbeat

I am in agreement with your decision. I am 41 and 20 weeks .I have a level 3 ultrasound tomorrow and they said they could do the amnio the same day. Bringing a special needs child into the world at our age (my husband and I; he's 43) is a major concern. What happens when we die? What is the quality of life of that child? I am worried but am going to have it.... and hope for the best.

MotherOfPearl

12-02-2007, 08:17 AM

All the best tomorrow Col.
I've decided to have an amnio (my nuchal scan and blood test results combined came back high risk-1:134) next week- at 16 weeks.

I'm pretty confident it's just a false alarm- as most are- and it's nothing for concern. To us 1 in 134 is a pretty small chance anyway.

Our issue is if we were to have a child with special needs we'd like to have some idea before. We live in a remote area and our children will be home schooled etc so we really would need to be organised and would like to know everything before hand we can.

aardvark

12-02-2007, 08:48 AM

I had an amnio with #3 as I was over 38 years old.

The reason was that I would have had no hesitation terminating the pregnancy if there had been a chromosomal abnormality.

The risk of miscarriage is less than the average value cited with a highly skilled person performing the procedure, and for me the risk of miscarriage was less significant than the prospect of possibly having to care for a disabled child.

If I was to have a #4, I'd do the same again, no question.

col

12-02-2007, 09:13 AM

Thanks so much for the feedback Kazza and Aardvark. This pregnancy was not planned and somewhat of a surprise since our one child is now 15..so emotions are running high.

Will post experience tomorrow. My EDD is July 2nd.....:wave:

morganj

12-02-2007, 09:47 AM

I am in agreement with your decision. I am 41 and 20 weeks .I have a level 3 ultrasound tomorrow and they said they could do the amnio the same day. Bringing a special needs child into the world at our age (my husband and I; he's 43) is a major concern. What happens when we die? What is the quality of life of that child? I am worried but am going to have it.... and hope for the best.

Col and Kazza. Wishing you both all the best. Let us know how you go!! My DH and I have decided that we would go down this path too if the risks at the 12 week scan were considered high. Is it your ob that does the amnio or the screening place? If it is the ob then is this something we should consider when choosing an ob?

defaipe

12-02-2007, 10:33 AM

What are your opinions on amniocentisis (i think that is how you spell it lol).

Would you have the tests done?

If no Why?

If Yes Why?

no. i havent even had the 12week down syndrome test done with any of mine. i dont want to be put in a position of choosing whether my baby can live or not. what will be will be imo.

defaipe

12-02-2007, 10:40 AM

sorry just read through some other posts so i hope mine didnt come across as rude. i wish you all the best with your tests and results.. just coz its not for me doesnt mean i was judging anyone for having/getting it done.
at the end of the day we all do what we feel is right.

mum2anthony

12-02-2007, 11:00 AM

Hey there...

I've actually had an amniocentisis when I was 20 weeks pregnant with my son...

I've grown up with my Brother who is Autistic and although the test doesn't show these results I know how hard it is dealing with a child who is "different". My dad and step mum have struggled their whole life with him and his learning...

Also, I am a Rhesus negative mum and baby is Rhesus Positive.

They basically had to do the test as my results from the Neucal scan came back high risk. I couldn't spend the next twenty weeks worrying about the What ifs? I mean the two - three weeks of waiting for the results was painful enough and I had to leave work due to High BP from the whole situation.

Seriously, these women (or men, sorry guys) are trained in this area and have done so many. amnios..

Go to King Edward... They are specialists in ALL things that go wrong with a pregnancy and deliveries and even special needs children.

It was like having a blood test. I would get it done again if need be and I am not one who likes getting needles...

My test came back clear and I found out my baby's blood group and even the sex as the ultrasound wasn't clear enough... Little bugger kept moving...

It's your choice. But don't spend your pregnancy worrying about it if you know regardless of the needs your baby will or will not need you will love it and care for it... Thats all that matters

WeloveHarriet

12-02-2007, 11:03 AM

If my OB strongly recommended it then I would have it. At our age (37) and with one littly aged 18mths already we would want to be fully aware of what we were to expect.

I agree that every test is your own personal choice but in my mind (and my husbands') 'tis better to be aware of any possibilities.

col

12-02-2007, 11:37 AM

Col and Kazza. Wishing you both all the best. Let us know how you go!! My DH and I have decided that we would go down this path too if the risks at the 12 week scan were considered high. Is it your ob that does the amnio or the screening place? If it is the ob then is this something we should consider when choosing an ob?

Thanks MorganJ...Actually my ob does not perform this test..I have to go to a screening place.My ob is strongly suggesting this even though my quad 4 blood screen came back good. What will be will be in the end anyway.:fingerscrossed:
When is your 12 week scan?

morganj

12-02-2007, 11:45 AM

Thanks Col. We are still ttc'ing unfortunately!! It's been a long journey so hopefully when we do get our BFP we will have a trouble free pg!

col

13-02-2007, 01:12 AM

Thanks Col. We are still ttc'ing unfortunately!! It's been a long journey so hopefully when we do get our BFP we will have a trouble free pg!

MorganJ:Things have a way of working out when you least expect it. This pregnancy comes after 10 years of trying for a 2nd child, having 4 miscarriages; and finally giving up and moving on with life.
All the best to you....:fingerscrossed:

MotherOfPearl

13-02-2007, 08:46 AM

Morgan I too am going to a specific amnio testing place in Adel. As it is a very busy place and hard to get in to I'm assuming they must be pretty good at doing them by now.

morganj

13-02-2007, 09:58 AM

Thanks Col!! :hugs:

col

18-02-2007, 03:37 AM

What are your opinions on amniocentisis (i think that is how you spell it lol).

Would you have the tests done?

If no Why?

If Yes Why?

Just had a level ll ultrasound and after that the amnio. On 2/12....The ultrasound gave us a relatively positive response 2 arms ,2legs etc...but the doc who read the scan said there
were a few "markers" that might be something
but were probably nothing but the amnio was
suggested to be sure. I was going to do it anyway but perhaps not the same day. In any case... it was fine, just a little pin ***** and you watch it on the monitor and can see where the needle is. They keep it far away from the baby. I felt fine after ( except some slight cramping very slight though) and am fine now
5 days later. The results take 10-14 days, This is the hard part.

morganj

18-02-2007, 10:29 AM

Col - I hope the next few days fly quickly for you!!! I have all my fingers and toes crossed for you hon!! :fingerscrossed: :fingerscrossed:

Lisa&Davey

18-02-2007, 12:37 PM

col

26-02-2007, 07:27 AM

Just wanted to let you guys know that I'm keeping everything :fingerscrossed: for some lovely positive results.

I'm not sure how I'd react to being recommended an amniocentisis. But I tell you the wait for results would kill me.

Lots of :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: to you Col and Kazza and to your families.

Thanks..Lisa .Believe it or not I am still waiting for my results.... I hope to hear something tomorrow because every day I get more uptight about this. I am totally distracted. The odds are just so against me. I will be 42 on Tuesday and the odds for downs are 1 in 52.

But so many women in this day and age are giving birth to healthy babies at my age and
older that I remain hopeful .

MotherOfPearl

27-02-2007, 08:14 AM

:fingerscrossed: Col :hugs: I hope you hear some good news today!

I too had a very positive experience on the 20th Feb. The Dr performing the amnio was lovely, as was the nurse who came in to assist. It was just like having a needle in your tummy. I didn't watch, Angus did and went very quiet:eek: . Think it was worse for him than me!

Col, did they offer you the Fysh(think that was how it was spelt) test? I could have had just the Downs results back in 48 hours, they take a little more fluid and charge an extra $200. I declined as you need to still wait 2 weeks for the rest of the results and as the odds were 1:134 I didn't think it was that urgent. If it was something like 1:34 then I definately would have taken that option.

morganj

27-02-2007, 08:17 AM

Col - I have everything crossed for you :fingerscrossed: . I hope you hear some good news very soon. :hugs:

Lunar

27-02-2007, 11:01 AM

Thanks..Lisa .Believe it or not I am still waiting for my results.... I hope to hear something tomorrow because every day I get more uptight about this. I am totally distracted. The odds are just so against me. I will be 42 on Tuesday and the odds for downs are 1 in 52.

But so many women in this day and age are giving birth to healthy babies at my age and
older that I remain hopeful .

My chances without any testing at all with #2 was 1:100 because I already have 1 child who has D/S. I was only 24... 19 when I fell pregnant with DD1. Age really has nothing to do with it ladies, they have NO proof of this.
Just wanted to pop in an send some words of encouragment to you ladies.... things will be fine, believe me they will.

And I would like all of you to know that I am here if you need to talk about anything, the waiting, the results, about d/s... ANYTHING!
:hugs: to all.

Kris.

stellarella

27-02-2007, 11:10 AM

For me personally, I would not have it done, unless there were certain factors making me "high risk"...this might be if there was a family history of problems, if I was an "older" mother etc.

I dont agree with it for healthy mums with no "risk factors" because it can lead to loss of the foetus.
Incorrect diagnosis, causing stress, worry and as a worst case scenario, termination of a healthy foetus.
A host of other complications, stunted foetal growth, bleeding etc.

The risks of not having it done would have to outweigh the risks of having it done.

This is why I do not agree with routine amniocentesis for otherwise healthy mums. I dont agree with the "lets just do it in case" attitude.

Oh I also tend to be against any other tests apart from the 20 week scan. I try to limit tests/scans etc as much as possible, IMO the less interference the better. I am even considering having no scans for my next baby.

kiwibird27

27-02-2007, 11:16 AM

I will have to have an amnio everytime i am pregnant now to rule out the baby having the same rare disorder as my current baby, Her condition would not of shown up on a standard amnio if I had had one done.

The issue is what u would do if u knew your baby had something??!! aND HOW ACCURATE ARE THE AMNIO'S ANYWAY.

mum2anthony

27-02-2007, 11:20 AM

This is why I do not agree with routine amniocentesis for otherwise healthy mums. I dont agree with the "lets just do it in case" attitude.

This is the reason I had the amnio done. Because I was a high risk potential and I wanted to make sure that my child did not have DS... Yes it may be selfish on my part wanting a healthy child but I have a disabled brother and I have seen how hard it is to deal with a child who has very large learning difficulties. I just couldn't do that to my child.

I couldn't spend the next 6 months "not knowing" and stressing myself out and causing potentially more harm to my unborn child. I rathered getting it over and done with to find out whether my son was DS or not.

Sure there are risks. But there are risks with everything. I think sometimes we need to take this risks. We are lucky to be in a day and age where we can find out these things.

There are risks attached to everything we do even if it's a normal thing... Eating the wrong thing, doing the wrong thing can result in a miscarriage. If it's meant to be it's meant to be.

As far as I know the amnio is pretty accurate.

MotherOfPearl

27-02-2007, 11:29 AM

And I would like all of you to know that I am here if you need to talk about anything, the waiting, the results, about d/s... ANYTHING!
:hugs: to all.
Thanks Kris :hugs: you are excellent!! A genuine asset to BH and all Bubhubbers :)

The issue is what u would do if u knew your baby had something??!!
That is something we still haven't worked out, but I truly think it is a very personal decision for every couple and something they should not be judged on- what ever they choose to do.

stellarella

27-02-2007, 11:30 AM

The issue is what u would do if u knew your baby had something??!! aND HOW ACCURATE ARE THE AMNIO'S ANYWAY.

I cant remember the exact % of false positives and false negatives...but I remember it was very high...almost enough to make the test worthless.

I think if the test is indicated...then of course you would have it. You would rather have it and maybe the test be incorrect, than not have it at all and have that "unknown" factor.

Im just concerned with the number of OB's using it as a routine "just because we can" procedure...not saying this is happening alot....just too often in my opinion.

MotherOfPearl

27-02-2007, 11:34 AM

the thing with the amnio d/s testing is the results aren't definite- they don't say yes or no, they can only give you a risk factor

stellarella

27-02-2007, 11:34 AM

I couldn't spend the next 6 months "not knowing" and stressing myself out and causing potentially more harm to my unborn child. I rathered getting it over and done with to find out whether my son was DS or not.

I think its up to the mother mum2anthony...im not saying its wrong if you feel in your particular case that its worthwhile.:hugs: You dont have to justify your reasons.

My BIL has a cleft lip and palate...this is why I had a 20 week scan even though I had always thought I wouldnt.

I understand where you are coming from.

I just dont agree with doing it routinely in general.

Lunar

27-02-2007, 01:28 PM

Accuracy of amnio tests are about 99.?%/ 98.?%, so they are pretty accurate.

I think far too many Dr refer for genetic testing when it is very unnecessary. When pg with #2 every Dr I saw was mortified that I didn't have CVS or amnio and questioned me as to why I didn't want further testing. My answer was simple... it didn't matter to us if our next child was to be born with Down syndrome, we wanted a CHILD, we didn't care on gender, eye colour, nor chromosome count. We were blessed with a pregnancy that stuck (had suffered through 2 m/c's that was enough!) Our thoughts were that what was to be will be. We would love our child regardless.

Besides, what ppl don't bother to investigate is how much the world has changed in the last 20 years. There are so many great services out there for ppl with disabilities. I KNOW my DD1 will grow up abd lead an independant life and have a job, if she chooses to- get married and have children.
Down syndrome, it's not a life sentance.
I would just like to encourage ppl who are facing positive results, to seek out a parent to talk to before they make ANY drastic decisions.

Take care:hugs:

Emily 85

27-02-2007, 06:19 PM

My partner got diognosed with minor spina bifida before we got pregnant and not long after i found out i was pregnant his brother was diognosed . We read as much info on the subject as possible in the end got an early ultrasound to see if tehre where any visible problems and there wherent so we decided not to get the test done . in the end we decided that if my child had spina bifida at least we wouldnt be alone and could go through it with my partner. It is a very invasive test and just didnt feel right to get it dont

MotherOfPearl

01-03-2007, 08:36 AM

My Obs rooms rang this morning at 8.30 to say amnio results report no abnormalities detected!!:smiliedance:
That was great they came in so fast- only 9 days I had to wait.
Thanks again everyone for your lovely thoughts and hugs :hugs:

Col, are you still waiting?

Lunar

01-03-2007, 10:05 AM

That's great Kaz:hugs:

MotherOfPearl

01-03-2007, 10:14 AM

thanks Kris, for everything!

morganj

01-03-2007, 10:42 AM

Great news Kaz!! :smiliedance:

mum2anthony

01-03-2007, 10:51 AM

I think its up to the mother mum2anthony...im not saying its wrong if you feel in your particular case that its worthwhile.:hugs: You dont have to justify your reasons.

My BIL has a cleft lip and palate...this is why I had a 20 week scan even though I had always thought I wouldnt.

I understand where you are coming from.

I just dont agree with doing it routinely in general.

I agree... Routinely is a bit silly especially with the miscarriage risks attached. I only did the test for the above reasons and if I had a high risk result again I would do it again. But not just because...

Lunar

01-03-2007, 10:58 AM

thanks Kris, for everything!

My pleasure hunny pies!:hugs: :kiss:

mum2anthony

01-03-2007, 11:30 AM

the thing with the amnio d/s testing is the results aren't definite- they don't say yes or no, they can only give you a risk factor

Thats for the triple test that is a blood test. I think this discussion is regarding the amniocentisis which is a genetic testing where they take fluid from the amniotic sack and grow the cells and determine whether the baby will have DS or a cleft palate etc....

This test is fairly accurate (99%) and u do get a yes or no answer.

Lunar

01-03-2007, 12:41 PM

Thats for the triple test that is a blood test. I think this discussion is regarding the amniocentisis which is a genetic testing where they take fluid from the amniotic sack and grow the cells and determine whether the baby will have DS or a cleft palate etc....

This test is fairly accurate (99%) and u do get a yes or no answer.

She knows what she's talking bout hun, she recently had an amnio. The test is pretty accurate, and you are right, the give you a yes/no answer. But this test does NOT cover alot of chromosome disorders. d/s is just the MOST common one, so they test most for that. d/s occurs around 1 in every 800 births...worldwide... could be more now. Of course this only accounts for the babies BORN, and not those poor babies that didn't get the chance to enter the world.

subaruforestermum

01-03-2007, 12:54 PM

I was classed as high risk through my pregnancy, but more than likely it was because I only found out at the 24 week mark....:rolleyes:

But I had though about it when I first found out, about it being too late for those tests etc, what if there's something wrong with my baby, but then thought either way, its my baby (although was in shock about there actually being a baby)......and I'll love him anyway....

And given the option if I ever had another child, I wouldnt do it......... I think for me there is the risk of something going wrong, and also the stress it could but on me if there was something wrong......then the stress ti would put on the baby .....

JMO

CarolineF

02-03-2007, 10:52 PM

the thing with the amnio d/s testing is the results aren't definite- they don't say yes or no, they can only give you a risk factor

I'm sorry, but this is incorrect.:no:

An amnio is a definitive way of diagnosing chromosomal abnormalities. The nuchal scan and triple blood tests only give you statistical odds i.e. levels of risk. I had a triple test with my first pregnancy and got a result of 1:28 of DS. I had an amnio then and a second one with the following pregnancy. An amnio is undertaken to look specifically at the number of chromosomes there.

Lunar

02-03-2007, 10:55 PM

CarolineF

02-03-2007, 11:07 PM

Yes but the amnio is not 100%, that's what we are saying here. They only look for the more common abnormalities such as Trisomies 21, 13 and 18 (if you're lucky). Others, they just don't bother.

That is right if you just have the FISH test, that does only test for the most common 3 or 4. Both times I had the 3 week wait whilst they did the full test. I had my first in the UK where they do not do the FISH only the full test, and the second in Oz where they gave me the FISH results in 24 hours for the top 3 conditions, and then I had a 2 week wait for the full one.

Clearly, an amnio does not test for ALL abnormalities a child can be born with, it only tests for chromosomal abnormalities and in that sense will not ease an expectant mums mind 100%.

Lunar

02-03-2007, 11:16 PM

That is right if you just have the FISH test, that does only test for the most common 3 or 4. Both times I had the 3 week wait whilst they did the full test. I had my first in the UK where they do not do the FISH only the full test, and the second in Oz where they gave me the FISH resukts in 24 hours for the top 3 conditions, and then I had a 3 week wait for the full one.

OK, I'm confused. I had the full test but was told that they really only do look for the more common abnormalities. Others I know who have recently had the test said the same thing. Actually some one I know who had the full test actually went on to have a child with a chromosome abnormality that was not picked up via amnio:confused:

CarolineF

02-03-2007, 11:21 PM

OK, I'm confused. I had the full test but was told that they really only do look for the more common abnormalities. Others I know who have recently had the test said the same thing. Actually some one I know who had the full test actually went on to have a child with a chromosome abnormality that was not picked up via amnio:confused:

I wonder if it depends upon the clinic in which the work was done and the protocols it adopts?

One point is unarguable, wherever you have humans undertaking the testing there will be an element of human error involved. However, the odds of mistakes being made is negligible.

MotherOfPearl

04-03-2007, 08:25 AM

Thats for the triple test that is a blood test. I think this discussion is regarding the amniocentesis which is a genetic testing where they take fluid from the amniotic sack and grow the cells and determine whether the baby will have DS or a cleft palate etc....

This test is fairly accurate (99%) and u do get a yes or no answer.

I was referring to amnio- when I had one 2 weeks ago I was told for Down Syndrome I would be told a likelihood, ie 1:20 etc, not a yes no answer. Perhaps this is to cover themselves in the cases like Lunar refers to where they get it wrong?

aardvark

04-03-2007, 09:57 AM

The major cause of inaccuracies in an amnio is when they accidentally look at maternal cells, not fetal.

If they find a male fetus, then the result should be 100% accurate, as there is no danger they have a maternal cell instead. If they find a female fetus, then there is a very low possibility that they may look at a maternal cell, not fetal, and that is where the risk of error comes in.

A full amnio looks at all the chromosomes, a FISH test looks at the chromosomes which are more commonly associated with problems.

Unless you get specific testing done for genetic conditions like cystic fibrosis, you don't get an answer on those sorts of problems with an amnio.

Mamalicious

06-03-2007, 11:05 AM

i had an amnio on thursday and im waiting for the results this morning. at 22 weeks i had the scan which showed a couple of things that could mean downs syndrome, but the risks were too high at that stage, what if we lost the baby and the result wouldnt change how we felt at all. so they said to get another scan and we were told that the best thing to do was to have an amnio so i could relax and enjoy the pregnancy. i dont think i would have one early in the pregnancy because of the risks of miscarriage, but this way we can prepare ourselves if something isnt right, and get the support that our baby might need

Lisa&Davey

12-03-2007, 01:12 PM

Good luck to those awaiting results. Looking forward to some good news for you.:fingerscrossed:

young mum of two

25-10-2007, 12:50 AM

I'm sorry, but this is incorrect.:no:

An amnio is a definitive way of diagnosing chromosomal abnormalities. The nuchal scan and triple blood tests only give you statistical odds i.e. levels of risk. I had a triple test with my first pregnancy and got a result of 1:28 of DS. I had an amnio then and a second one with the following pregnancy. An amnio is undertaken to look specifically at the number of chromosomes there.

i am new to this website, and this is a close to home for me. I have a 6 year old and 2 year old, i had an amnio with the first, but not with the second. The reason being the risk factor and the fact that i know a woman that had a posative with two of her pregnancies after an amnio with both for ds and neither one of her chidren are. after the first child i didn't even have the first test and i wouldn't again if in the position, your child is your child no matter what and like one of the other women said, anything could happen in life to your child and if you would choose to abort a disabled child in pregnancy, in life for a healthy child to become disabled, you don't have the option to abort it when it's already here and you wouldn't give up on it then, why give up on it in pregnancy.