Is there anything that can be done?

[kacey]

Yesterday DH and I went shopping at a big plaza. We were heading for a baby shop when just outside it we see this woman SCREAMING at this little girl. She slapped her across the face. She was pointing her finger at her and towering over her and SCREAMING! The little girl had her arms up and was backing away in a real defensive way. She dragged her about 10 metres by her hair and slapped her across the back of the head. She SCREAMED at her some more (general gist of the screaming was that the child had wandered off a few metres). She ended up dragging her off by her hair and her arm, still carrying on, all the while pushing a pram with a baby in it.

Everyone around stood still and stared in horror and shock. One lady with a pram had the guts to call out "OY". The horrible woman stopped screaming and turned to all of us in anger to see who it was who dared to tell her off. She looked like she was ready for a full-on fist fight. The OY lady did not dare say another word.

As the horrid woman left everyone was just staring at each other like after a bad car accident or something. You could see the emotion in everyone's faces. I was trying so hard not to cry. I cannot help bawling now.

I feel so guilty that I did nothing, I am haunted by the terrified look on this girl's face. That little girl needed our protection and we did nothing. But what could we do? Legally, we have no right to step in, do we? We could have had a big all-in brawl, but what would it achieve? Those two children need to be removed from their mother, but we had no way to achieve that, did we?

I am not trying to justify my own inaction, I want to learn from it. Is there ANYTHING we (DH and I or the whole group of onlookers) could have done to positively impact this situation? Please give your advice, I want to do something positive next time instead of doing nothing for fear of making this girl's life worse.

[veve]

oh geez - some people seriously have no right to breed...

((hugs)) - I know you feel guilty - I think we have all felt like that at some stage - but grabbing her and dragging her by the hair??? - makes me want to do the same to the mother!!!! how awful!!!

too bad society has got to the stage where the angry confrontational parent wins...

I cant wait to see what the bubhubbers have to say - the advice will be interesting - I can't wait to learn by this thread too..

I just wanted to send you ((hugs)) - makes me want to love my little boy oh so much more...

xxx

[*Sal*]

Wow, that must have been awful to witness. If she's do that in public, then what's her life like at home :eek:

I don't have any advice really, as I am not sure whether you can legally do anything unless you know their whereabouts and it can be reported to the appropriate authorities. I guess all anyone could have done would be to follow her to her car and get the licence plate to report it.

:hugs: to you, hope it's not weighing on your mind too much.

[veve]

I just had a thought - could you have followed her - got her number plate and then rung the local police station??? just a thought ( I wouldn't have thought of that at the time either .. damn my slow brain :rolleyes: ) - would the cops be able to do anything???

xxx

[veve]

LOL c&cs mum - we posted at the same time :D

xxx

[*Sal*]

LOL Jenny - I just noticed that too. Great minds think alike hey?

[cwsmum]

What a horrible way to treat a child :thumbsdown:
I have smacked my DS in public...but not hard and definatly not anywhere near his head. Being a cheeky 3yr old he had wandered off and when I called him to come back he looked at me, said no and ran further away...making a pregnant me (at the time) chase him.

Personally, I would have gotten one for the nearby shops to call centre security, and maybe even have called police too. At least security would have calmed the crazy lady down a bit. If it were 2 teenagers/adults behaving like that security would be called, and often police too. I doubt there is much more you can do, unless you know who the woman is and can give her address to child welfare people.

[stellaj]

I work in child protection and i think it would have been a good idea for someone to call the police whilst another approached the mother. The adults surrounding have a better chance of confronting the lady than the little girl has of defending herself. It is a hard call on the spur of the moment though.

[caitsmum]

We would all make perfect decisions in hindsight. It must of been so awful to witness. You must have been so shocked to see in unfold. I don't think any of us would ever be ready to see something like that.

Have you thought about seeing security even now about what happened. They may have it on tape. They may have had previous incedents with her or she may already be known to police and/or childwelfare. I know that is a bit of clutching at straws. It may make you feel like you are able to do something. I am sure that her behaviour towards this girl is not new and maybe someone has reported her before.

No one should ever, ever treat a child like that

[mum24]

I agree it would have been awful to witness and we think of the way we treat our own child/children when in public when we see another family being " bullied " in some way.

Please realise though that your immediate reactions and decisions are being based on a " snapshot" of someone's life. This woman may have been at the end of her tether already, the little girl may have been misbehaving constantly despite the mother's possible continuous warnings/pleadings for her to stay by her side, something could have gone wrong for the mother in one of the shops. Maybe she was having financial difficulties and the bank wasn't co-operating. She could have gone home and bawled her eyes out for being awful to her daughter and then made sure things were right between them. I hope you get my drift about where I'm heading with this.

I'm not condoning the treatment from the mother to her little girl, I'm simply suggesting a sympathetic and cautious approach from a bystander may have helped cooled a hot situation.

[JenNT]

ok I just spoke to my husband who is a policeman, he says it is an offence not to report child abuse....having said that it must be classed as child abuse and not discipline. He thinks that someone should have called the police (shops usually have police beat on site) and followed the woman to her car and gotten her rego.
Something I will learn from this for sure.

[Maghan]

ok I just spoke to my husband who is a policeman, he says it is an offence not to report child abuse....having said that it must be classed as child abuse and not discipline. He thinks that someone should have called the police (shops usually have police beat on site) and followed the woman to her car and gotten her rego.
Something I will learn from this for sure.

There you go JenNT, my suggestion would be to go into "stealth mode" and get her rego and report her to the police (we're on the same wave-length). Oh and make sure the police take you seriously, follow up on them too!!!

[whatwasithinking]

I was in the local Wesfield shops in Vic about 12mths ago when I heard a woman yelling "How dare you do that" "You have no right to hit her like that" "Don't you even do that again" "I want your name I'm goin go report you" "Don't you ever raise your hand to her again"
I turned around and this woman was yelling and screaming at this old bag who had a little girl with her (about 2.5yrs old). Apparently the old bag (assuming grandma) had hit the child in the head numerous times in front of the checkouts in Coles and this woman had jumped out of the long queue and confronted her as noone else was moving (I heard this from one of the witnesses as I came into the screaming match too late ) I would have done exactly the same.
What really annoyedthe woman screaming was the old bag didn't even realise she was doing anything wrong and didn't even acknowledge what was said to her as she didn't understand a blooming word of english!!

[bronny-jane]

its a tough situation to be in, but being a confrontational person i would have grab that lady by the arm and flipped at her, its one thing giving your child a smack on the bottom, but slapping her in the face, pulling her by her hair and yelling at her.
there was alot of people around im sure some one would have jumped in if it got nasty between her and an adult. this little girl was totaly defensless and no one came to her aid, it makes me sad that this has happened. im not taking a shot at you for not doing anything, but surely there might have been some one who could of over powered this lady.

[kacey]

Gosh, thanks for all your replies. It's actually good to see the variety of responses, which helps me realise there is not one way to deal with it. DH was saying he'd like to talk to the management because he's sure there'd be security footage as it was outside two children's shops. After hearing your responses, we're going there tomorrow to have a chat and find out from them what to do in terms of calling security next time.
Caitsmum, I think our minds work in similar ways, I was thinking what if she's been reported before and this being reported would cause a change in the children's situation because the authorities would be able to get involved? I don't have a lot of respect for DHS (Vic's version of DOCS) but it's worth trying. It's really got me worked up. I want to chat to DHS too, and find out what one of their workers would do in that situation.
Please continue to make suggestions, I'm not leaving this alone until I feel I have done all I can and learnt what to do in a similar situation. I remain unconvinced that confronting the woman myself would benefit anyone.

[caitsmum]

Kacey

I really hope that you are able to get somewhere with this. It must be playing on your mind. I hope that you keep us informed. I think this family as a unit obviously needs help.

[kacey]

Ok, so I'm feeling a lot better about the situation now. I'll try to keep it brief...

Spoke to the security guys at the plaza. They took the situation details, my details, and are giving them to the supervisor so if something happens with it I can be called as a witness. I don't think I can hope for more than that for this situation.

They also told me next time to call the cops straight away. They were really adamant, call the cops then and there! And to tail the person, not let them out of my sight. That way the police can find them. Ok, so I know what to do next time, that's good. I detest the word "empowerment", but I feel empowered right now.

They told me a similar situation happened a few days ago and the child is now removed from the mother due to a witness being able to get the authorities onto it and to be a witness. I wonder if it is actually the same situation? Maybe, because you wouldn't think two such similar situations would happen within days, would you? If it is, I bet the lady who yelled "OY" is responsible. Good on her.

Unfortunately not every mother deserves to be one (my godkids sure know that!!!) and I'm glad to have gone on this fact-finding mission. Hope others feel a little enlightened too.

Thanks for all your support, advice, etc. Mwah! :kiss:

[mum24]

kacey wrote:
I detest the word "empowerment", but I feel empowered right now.

Why do you detest the word "empowerment"? All knowledge IS empowering. It's better to be aware and responsible than ignorant and lazy. You gain nothing but great things when you have responsibility and knowledge. I personally think it's great you took the steps to gain the knowledge necessary so you have peace of mind and yes " empowerment " if you ever see a similar situation occur again.

[caitsmum]

Kacey,

I'm glad that you were able to do something positive. Isn't it a pity that you have to have knowledge of what to do is such a situation. I hope that you never have to witness something like that again.

[kacey]

Mmmm, interesting tangent, Mum24. I didn't explain very well. I detest the word, not the concept. After 5 years of uni, and all the politically correct rubbish that goes with uni, I feel the word "empowerment" or "empowered" is overused and hyped up. I have seen and heard of many wonderful examples of the positive outcomes which can occur when a person is empowered in one way or another, it's really just the word I detest, not the concept, I am sick of hearing the word. Hope that explains what I meant more clearly. Let me know if it doesn't. Maybe I have talked around in circles???