So, what's the big secret?? (Apologies now for the vent!!)

[MrsMiggins]

OK, I admit it! I am at my wit's end with DS's sleeping (or rather, lack thereof!!)

He slept like a dream up until about 3 months (was even sleeping for 11-12 hours straight) when all of a sudden, it went pear-shaped! Now for the last 6 months, I've been forced to walk through my day like a zombie, surviving on 2-3 hours of broken sleep most nights.

On a good night, DS will wake up 2-3 times, on a bad night it's more than a dozen. Some nights he can take only a few minutes to get back to sleep, while there have been nights where I'm sitting up with him for 2 hours or more each time.

Day sleeps are less of a drama, although we have our moments there as well. Today for instance, even though he is dead tired from being awake most of the night (I lost count around the 7th or 8th time I had to get up), he is just refusing to stay asleep. I've put him down 3 times, only to have him wake a couple of minutes later.

He is so sleep-deprived that he just screams & cries & clings to me all day long. It's just gotten to the point where it really can't go on like this any longer.

So what I'm interested to know is - what's the big secret? Why is it that the only people asking hundreds of dollars for their "100% guaranteed" sleep programs have the answer? Why can't someone just come along & say to me; "Here Fiona, here's the answer to your problem!"?

Why is it that if I'm unwilling/unable to let my child cry himself to sleep or put him into an inflexible feed & sleep routine that I just have to tough it out & persevere until he eventually grows out of it? :hissy::hair::crying:

*long, groaning, sigh*

Now in all seriousness, if any else has been in this situation & came to a resolution that worked that did not involve controlled crying/comforting, co-sleeping, strict routines, etc.... (yeah, I know there's not much else left!!) then PLEASE, PLEASE let me know your secret!!!

[Harlequin]

He won't even go to sleep on you during the day?

Sorry I can't help you. Ava only naps ON me during the day so I end up stuck at the computer for an hr each time. At night she's been waking since 6mths, which is a pain in the **** but I think it might be teething related.

[MrsMiggins]

Well, day sleeps are one of my very few sanctuaries right now. That's not to say that he sleeps well every day (not by a long shot) but we do have days where he could sleep for hours. I still have to actually put him to sleep (which can be harrowing sometimes!), but there are good days where once asleep, he will have a good long one.

He actually won't fall asleep on me. DD did no probs (it was trying to get her into bed from there that was the problem! ;)) but that's why I said no co-sleeping, as he simply will not do it. Even if I try to lie down with him, he just gets up and tries to climb off the bed/couch, then stands there screaming wanting to be picked up again.

Sometimes he'll fall asleep in the car (usually 30 seconds before we've arrived at our destination!) but will not stay asleep when I get him out.

My CHN suggested putting him down for a sleep when he's tired during the day at first (without feeding/rocking etc) and then once he's got that down pat, introducing it at night. But I tried this for about 5 days with the only result being an even more tired, more cranky, more clingy baby! He did not once settle for a sleep doing this.

[UmmInayah]

No answers, but I feel your pain. Even during the night bub has to be touching my boob and if I move away she wakes up. Ugh.

She sleeps on me during the day and the only way for me to get a decent amount of sleep is to wake up with a sore back and aching neck.

I am hoping she grows out of this soon because poor DH sleeps on a matteress and it's just DD and me in a king size bed!

[metalhead713]

could you try co-sleeping maybe? then at least if he still wakes up you just have to roll over to settle him.. no other advice sorry
eta: ooops sorry just read your above post about no co-sleeping lol

[MrsMiggins]

In all honesty, if the only way I was going to get a decent night's sleep meant co-sleeping, then I would do it. But it just won't work with him.

I think he also has issues that are affecting his sleep - such as teething, milestones etc - but those things are on top of his base sleep issues. I think we still need a resolution.

I know my DD had problems sleeping when she'd reached a developmental milestone (crawling & walking in particular) & DS seems to have the same problem. We've been having an especially rough time of it the past few weeks, which has co-incided with him starting to walk.

[Harlequin]

Would an ergo or similar carrier get him to sleep? Then you could try stealthily removing him somehow?

[MrsMiggins]

I haven't tried an ergo, but I have various types of slings & carriers & have never been able to extract him without waking him, unfortunately!

[Pixie]

How do you normally get him to sleep?

Has he changed developmentally in someway?

Teeth?

Environment?

I have never had what one would call a good sleeper she has slept well but as a young baby on me or in our bed once asleep well she would wake every 2-3 hours for a feed.

Currently going through the "lets delay bedtime while I say goodnight to Dada a hundred times stage" I have done loads of reading and tried nearly everything so feel your pain so want to help you!

[the_queen]

Have you tried a chiro? He might just have a bit of a cricked neck?? I dunno. The only thing I could think of that wasn't on your list was a double-dose of Panquil :shame: :p

:hugs: You poor thing, hope it sorts itself out soon. Poor wee man, I reckon that when "whatever it is" gets fixed, he'll sleep for 18 hours straight. He sounds like he's tired of being so tired too. :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:


Oh ps for you - vitamin B overload, Zinc and Magnesium. I take "Mega B" which is basically 100mg of all the vitamin B's. It truly does help. Helps me sleep better when I do sleep, and feel more alive when I am awake. I've taken this since he was a couple of weeks old, and back then I was also only getting 3 or so broken hours of sleep per night. Made a huge difference to me. Zinc and Magnesium will help your body function well. You look after yourself, lovey {insert more hugs here}

[MrsMiggins]

I haven't tried chiro, but I've considered it. May be worth a shot. I wonder what they charge for a bub...? There's apparently a really good one here on the Coast for bubs. I should probably look him up.

Pixie, I am "guilty" of feeding him to sleep. He just won't go down any other way. I know I really should try to wean him off those feeds he doesn't need (the night time ones) & try getting him down to sleep on his own, but it's not proved very successful thus far (see my earlier post).

Teeth & development are highly likely causes of this current run of terrible sleeping. He's just started walking & seems to be having trouble getting some teeth through. I give him Neurofen, bonjella etc, with varying degrees of success.

Funnily enough, as much as I disagree with "drugging" children to sleep, the best nights we've had were when he had a cold & was doped up on Demazin! He had a bit of a runny nose the other day & I was half hoping it'd turn into a cold so that the Demazin could come out again!! :o

B vits.... also another one to bear in mind! Thx!!

[Pixie]

I still feed Eliza to sleep, although I am not sure feed is the correct term I have no milk left at all and she has told me as much so I know now it's purely for comfort.

I would say the walking/teeth are the main causes and they play havoc with sleep. I to know cough medicine works lol kinda wish she had a permanent cough lol

Does he go to sleep at night at a regular time? Eliza would always go to bed by 9 I know routines are not always an option nor work that great but how about a ritual! The warm bath with some chamomile and lavender oil in there low lights. I also put a burner on in Eliza's room with some calming essential oils to relax the room. Some soft classical music..god I am getting tired writing about it lol

My teething heavn was those little while tablets in a long tube I am tired tis early here I forget the name natural ones um Queenie you know what I am talking about? ANyhoo if I remember the name I'll post they are bloody fantastic.

You see I did read your earlier post on putting baby down when tired that's all very well if that's what you have always done, but a BF baby knows nothing else, I was never one who could walk around with her in the sling I truly needed some freedom to do yoga or nothing!

Also I never had another child to also contend with..my future is here huh lol

What about hubby can he help? I know mine could but I can't bear to hear her asking for Mimi or crying so I take over causes a lot of arguments and how he has no input but you know quite life and all that!

I say try the oils they really work well for us and the low low lights also some really calming stories and playtime.

And if that doesn't work drug em :D

Oh yes or cranial osteopathy is another thing..or chrio I dunno anything about Chrio's but Cranial osteopathy is awesome. I um had it on my uterus while I was TTC this baby it is amazing and gentle!

[MrsMiggins]

He does go to sleep at a fairly regular time. Around 8/8.30-ish most nights. I know some think this is late, but we all have dinner together & DH doesn't usually get home before 7pm.

We have a good bedtime ritual that's been in place since DD was about 6m old. Dinner, quiet play, bath, milk & bed. I have his night light on, which is very low light, sit & feed him in the rocker & his room is very quiet.

DH will on occasion go in & try to resettle him, but it's usually when I've had enough & am totally stressed out to the max. And then he's pretty useless, as he just lets Owen play around on the floor while he stretches out with a pillow & has half a kip himself until Owen eventually falls asleep. Yeah, OK it works, but then the poor kid is totally worn out the next day as it generally takes a couple of hours for him to get to sleep. I think DH would help more if I asked, but TBH I feel as though I need to do it. Even when DH does help, I just lie there wide awake listening to Owen cry.

I know these magical tablets of which you speak!! Hylands Teething Relief, no? I love them! They worked wonders with DD (the only thing that did!) but don't seem to have the same magical effect on DS. :(

I wonder how oils would go?

[toni796]

We have a good bedtime ritual that's been in place since DD was about 6m old. Dinner, quiet play, bath, milk & bed. I have his night light on, which is very low light, sit & feed him in the rocker & his room is very quiet.



You say his room is very quiet....Maybe it is to quiet. I would try getting some soothing relaxing music just so it has a little background noise and see if that helps a little at all. Maybe it is just to quiet for him. It is worth a try I guess.

[justmum]

Hi Mrs M,

I suffered a lot of the same things with my DS, although he is a lot younger than your DS. I am not sure what qualifies as a no-cry sleep solution though so if you want to discuss what I did I would prefer to do so by PM.

I had a private sleep consultant and am happy to go into great detail about the method I was taught. PM me if you want me to give you a step by step for you to think about.

Otherwise, my thoughts and :hugs: are with you - it is so hard when the little darlings are having sleep troubles.

Cheers JM

[bubs_and_us]

im not sure if this is on the mark, but have you had him checked by a doctor?

DS would wake screaming 10+ times per night, sometimes staying awake for 2+ hours, and then sleeping for 5 minutes before waking up again.

poor little man was so tired, so during the day was grumpy and clingy. this affected his day sleeps too, and as soon as i put him in the cot, he'd wake screaming.

we tried everything, unitl 1 day i could take it no more.... i took him to the doctors in tears. the doc took a look in his ears, and they were so infected. he had NO OTHER symptoms of an ear infection at all. when he was layed down in the cot, it made his ears hurt more, hence the screaming.

turned out that he had reoccurent ear infections, and would suffer greatly. this continued for months (while on antibiotics) waiting for grommets.

now, he's a new kid! and he sleeps through the night again!

im not saying this is your problem, but i'd definitely get him checked out just to rule out an underlying medical condition.

good luck

[MrsMiggins]

Thanks Tania. I have actually considered taking him to the GP just to have a look & rule anything out, but like you said, there just doesn't seem to be anything really wrong with him, other than the sleep thing. But it does make sense to have him checked out just in case. Your post reminded me that there doesn't have to be any glaring symptoms for there to be something wrong.

He happily lies on the floor when he's awake (it's one of his little "tricks" he likes to do - we say to him "Night, night Owey!" and he lies down on the ground & grins at us!! Pity it doesn't work for bedtime!! lol) Was your DS OK lying down when he was playing etc. or did it disturb him lying down at any time?

[Biene]

We caved in and ended getting a sleep 'therapist' in, some tips she gave us was to not b/feed in the babies bedroom, and to not b/feed to sleep - something to do with the sleep association. She also said that the best time to teach babies to sleep on their own was around 1yr. It was also very routine based.

[bubs_and_us]

Thanks Tania. I have actually considered taking him to the GP just to have a look & rule anything out, but like you said, there just doesn't seem to be anything really wrong with him, other than the sleep thing. But it does make sense to have him checked out just in case. Your post reminded me that there doesn't have to be any glaring symptoms for there to be something wrong.

He happily lies on the floor when he's awake (it's one of his little "tricks" he likes to do - we say to him "Night, night Owey!" and he lies down on the ground & grins at us!! Pity it doesn't work for bedtime!! lol) Was your DS OK lying down when he was playing etc. or did it disturb him lying down at any time?

he would happily play on the ground, laying down etc. i suppose because if it hurt, he'd just get back up and continue playing while sitting. :confused:

we had absolutely no idea that he had ear infections. and the doctor said that by the looks of his ears, its no wonder the little guy was screaming all the time.

it just amazed me that he had absolutely no other symptoms in that time. no pulling the ears, no fever.... nothing!

i'd definitely get him checked out by your GP.... if there's nothing medically wrong, at least you've ruled out the possibility, and got some peace of mind.

good luck with your little guy. i hope everything settles down.

[justmum]

Actually an ear infection is a very possible issue. I went to a talk by the midwives at St John of God over here in WA and they thought the single biggest cause of crying babies was undiagnosed ear infections. So a great suggestion to get his ears checked :yelclap:

[chandapie]

I read a book called the "No Cry Sleep Solution" by Elizabeth Pantley. It was priceless! We only used ONE of the 'secrets' in the book...and it worked. I highly recommend it. You could probably even check it out at the library. I feel for you, I really do. Good luck to you!

[Harlequin]

Which did you use chandapie, I have that book.

[chandapie]

Oh, gosh. It's been so long. Let's see...I may not have this exactly right, but I believe it was where when my son stood up in bed, basically begging for my attention, my husband, NOT ME, would go to him and say, "Mommy's sleeping, time for bed", and lay him back down. It only took twice, I believe, and he did it no more! I was shocked! This was probably when he was about 10 1/2 months old. He was getting a little too comfy with waking Mommy up to nurse whenever he felt like it. After this, he FINALLY slept thru the night, at 11 months!!! Argggghhhh! And when I say slept thru the night, I mean about 7 hrs, but hey, I was thrilled! What also helped was moving him to his own room. That pretty much solved all of our problems. I think Mommy was just too accessible! Hope that helps!

[cassi*girl]

Hi there.
I haven't read all the replies to this thread but I wanted to quickly pop in & ask if you have tried a chiropractor?
I swear by mine! He worked miracles with my DS when he was 11 weeks old & would literaly scream for 20 hours a day!!!!

I took DD there when she was born just to be sure all was ok & he found she had a broken collar bone.

Anyway, I would highly recommend a paediatric chiropractor.

Big :hugs: to you & I hope things get better soon

Sandi :)

[Hunni2]

Hi MrsMiggins, I posted last night in a new thread about this same issue (before I read your post). It seems my little guy is behaving very much the same as yours!! He has never been a great sleeper either and it isn't getting any better!

So I can't offer any helpful advice really, all I can say is I know just how you feel!!!! I still feed him to sleep too, it doesn't make much difference if he sleeps with me or in the cot (which is in our room), but overall I get a bit more rest if he is in bed with me as I don't have to get up and rock him for 20 minutes each time, he just attaches to me and falls asleep again (for a short time). He wakes 5-6 times a night. But one good thing is that over the last month he has had 1.5 hour naps morning and arvo which is a first, so we are very happy about that!!!

I've been getting lots of "rod making, told you so" comments which makes it really hard to stay confident in what we are doing........and I also feel that sometimes the only option people give is to do contrlled crying, which we will not.

On thing we are going to try next week is me sleeping in another room and hubby sleeping with him and settling him to see of this makes any difference.

Lots of hugs to you :hugs:

[Harlequin]

Take that rod and smack those people over the head with it.

[ShadyCharacter]

Not sure how you are going MrsMiggins, but I only just saw this thread.

I remember posting a thread much like this, my DS started out waking once in a 12 hour period and I thought this parenting gig was way easier than people told me. Then he got to 4 - 4.5 months and I remember starting a 'help, I am going mental' thread myself on a forum.

What worked for us was cosleeping. DS still woke up, but I could put my boob in his mouth and go back to sleep, it worked for all 3 of us.

He did keep waking a lot during the night though, and would only go to sleep for me, which was wearing me down... so I tried some drastic action.... Daddy crying!

I absolutely refuse to consider controlled crying as an option, no matter how desperate I got, but when I did get desperate, I realised that crying with Daddy was nothing like controlled crying... sure my son was upset and I HATED it, but I also knew that he wasn't feeling abandoned and alone and he still knew his Daddy was there.

It was tough, and I admit I had to leave the house the first few times, but it worked. Not only did DS start going to sleep with his Dad, but it helped break the feed to sleep association he had, that wasn't anything we did, he just stopped always wanting to feed to sleep. Which in turn stopped the night waking. We still cosleep, and I don't know that he sleeps through the night, but now when he does wake, he is happy to cuddle either one of us and fall back asleep, without clawing and screeching at me until I stick a boob in his mouth :rolleyes:. Now he has a cuddle to sleep association, and he is fine with either of us putting him to bed, and will quite often ask for his Dad when I try.

Getting him used to someone else putting him to sleep just made an enormous difference in his sleep overall.

He was a fair bit older when we did this though, about 2yrs and a few months... I am not sure what age I think it is ok from. Definitely not for a real young baby, but from 12 months or so might be ok if you are comfortable with it?

[stellarella]

Poor thing. :(
My 'secret' is BFing and co-sleeping. Obviously not everyone can or wants to do this, but I honestly would not survive without it. I don't know how some mums can handle getting out of bed at night, I just don't do it.

Would bringing him into bed with you be an option? At least when he wakes you can pat him back to sleep without getting out of bed.

[MrsMiggins]

Hi SC, thanks for your post!

We're actually on hold ATM, mainly because he is teething (in a HUGE way!) and miserable. But also because he's only been waking 2-3 times each night (which may seem a lot to some, but I can easily deal with it, considering what we've been through!)

stellarella, I have no problem with co-sleeping, but he simply will not have a bar of it!

[CharlisMummy]

Hi

Firstly :hugs:to you! I know what you're going through!

The only advice I can offer is getting your partner to put your DS down. We found that when our DD wakes at night if DH goes in she lays straight back down and goes to sleep without him having to do anything. If I go in however, its all over red rover!! She just will not settle again and I'll be up for hours.
We did do CC though. It took 1 night and she was asleep in 20 minutes and now she puts herself to sleep. But maybe your bub will settle for his dad without having to do the CC.

We tried co sleeping but she hates it. She just thrashes about and kicks and punches and cries and climbs out, even if she's asleep when we bring her in. So I know how you feel!

The other thing we do is DD wakes at 5 - 5:30ish every day so I BF her and she goes back to sleep but wakes if I try and put her in her cot so I lay her in her flip out sofa which she loves and she'll sleep for another 1 - 3 hours in that. Strange but she loves that thing, she's always in it in the day!

Hope something works out for you soon!!!!

[ogmsmum]

Maybe the bad sleep cycle needs to be broken. I have never done it but have heard that Fenergan (not sure how to spell) breaks the bad routine, allowing a fresh start. I am not endorsing drugging children, I hate to even give Panadol but as a last resort - you both need some good sleep

When my daughter was newborn, she cried a great deal and was a poor sleeper. My GP suggested I write down the sleeping pattern and perhaps that would make us eligible for a sleep school.

But I just bought a routine book and now I am pretty routine with my daughter (15 months) and do the exact same thing with her before every sleep.

Hope that helps, sleep deprivation is horrible, good luck to you.