View Full Version : Do you think getting a child vaxxed is SIDS related?
neostudded
23-12-2007, 16:48
Just curious as to what everyone thinks.:detective:
prideNJoy
23-12-2007, 16:55
After reading the book 'Vaccination' by Dr.Veira Scheibner, i think it is definately possible that some cases could be linked to Vaccines.
I think there are a lot of other things that could be a cause aswell though.
neostudded
23-12-2007, 16:57
After reading the book 'Vaccination' by Dr.Veira Scheibner, i think it is definately possible that some cases could be linked to SIDS.
I think there are a lot of other things that could be a cause aswell though.
Thanks, thats what I meant
I dont think so, as there are SOOOO many kids out there who are vaxxed who dont have any issues and certainly havent died from SIDS.
ButterflyMama
23-12-2007, 17:12
I think it's highly possible there is a link, for sure. Which is why we do not vax. :no:
nope.
the only common factors I've heard of in bubs that have died of SIDS in people I know, is smoking and alcohol abuse
Not after reading this article.
http://www.skeptics.com.au/journal/1997/1_immunise.htm
In fact I would go so far to say as I wouldn't believe anything Dr Viera Scheibner claims after reading that article. :)
No one yet knows the real cause of SIDS but I doubt it has anything to do with vaccinations because most children are vaccinated but the SIDS rates are at a lower level than in the past.
My brother died of SIDS because back when he was a baby (just over 20 yrs ago) parents were told to sleep their babies on their belly.
SIDS also say it could be linked to blankets over faces, cot matresses, baby being around smokers, etc. I can't recall Sids and Kids mentioning immunization.
Jeclipse
23-12-2007, 17:17
NOPE!
I get annoyed when people refer things to be linked to SIDS, because no one knows for sure, based on true facts..
Until there is valuable evidence saying so.. no, I dont believe it does!
ShadyCharacter
23-12-2007, 17:22
I think no-one can be certain one way or another, but I think its a definite possibility.
forbetoel
23-12-2007, 17:25
NO, I unfortuanantly know of 3 families who have lost babies to sids, and they all had contibuting factors of their own. Babies have died through no apparent reason for hundrends of years, and with immunisation rates up, and sids going down, I just don't see how it could. I would like to think that there is no mother out there suffering the immense pain of losing a baby thinking that they may have somehow have caused it through immunisations.
neostudded
23-12-2007, 21:11
What makes me concerned is every time Julius gets his needles he has trouble breathing & coughs untill he turns blue.It gets to the point that I feel as if he is going to die & I have trouble sleeping incase he dies while iam asleep.For the next week he has a high pitched, laboured cry.His legs become red raw & swollen.He also changes in personallity & has bad fevers.
After his 4 month shots he came home different.The last few days he has been sleeping alot & when he is awake, he isnt as alert.He often has a 'vacant' face expression & he is constanly groaning in pain.Yesterday he wouldnt hold his head up anymore, I walked him around the house with his head rested on my shoulder while he goaned & was very unresponsive.It was heart breaking.
I dont know what to do, I didnt want to get him jabbed in the first place until I have time to look into it.My mum kept nagging at me & challenging me about it.So I let her take him but blocked it our of my mind as much as I could.I still dont know what I want to do, I dont know where to find trust worthy information about it all.
But I know, I dont want him to die, & I feel as though he might just stop breathing.I dont want to go though this again.
I told my mum I dont want him having the routine 6 month jabs.As I have a bad gut feeling.But shes just telling me Iam over reacting ect basically not even listening to my concerns.
I dont know what to do about the whole thing.
I may even get him jabbed at an older age but I dont feel right getting him done at such a young age, to me it feels wrong & makes me ill thinking about it.
ETA, he aslo suffers vomiting
chefalicious
23-12-2007, 21:14
IMO from the way you describe his reactions and the way you describe your feelings, i would not get them. maybe wait till he is a little older.... or not at all....i know of lots of healthy bubbas that havent been vaxed....
oh and for the record my dd is vaxed:)
neostudded
23-12-2007, 21:20
IMO from the way you describe his reactions and the way you describe your feelings, i would not get them. maybe wait till he is a little older.... or not at all....i know of lots of healthy bubbas that havent been vaxed....
oh and for the record my dd is vaxed:)
Thanks
how many babies have bad reactions? :confused:
our3boys
23-12-2007, 21:20
my ds is also fully vaxed but by what you have decribed i dont think i would be getting his 6 month needles done either he sound like he has had some sort of bad reaction from them and if it keeps up i would be taking him to a doctor just to get checked over sounds kinda scary.
Fuchsia!
23-12-2007, 21:30
neo, i would listen to your instincts. They are there for a reason. YOu have 2months before his next ones right? Study up, research, speak to professionals and read, read read! That's what i am doing now. I honestly think there could be a link to SIDS but i can't put 100% belief into it until i see proof.
I have Cooper vaxxed up until his 6mths and i am really considering not getting anymore until he is old enough to handle what they put into it. And even then i still may not decide to vax him. I think you really need to be sure of your decision. And listen to your instincts. Good luck
SilverStarfish
23-12-2007, 21:35
No, I don't think the two are linked :no:
I don't think so. SIDS rates in Australia have been steadily falling, particularly since 1990. There are tables in this article showing about 500 SIDS deaths in Aust in 1990, steadily falling to around 130 in 2000. That's a decrease of 80% in those 10 years.
http://www.cyh.com/library/Fact_Sheet_No1_SIDS.pdf
This decrease corresponds to decreases in other countries, this article talks about a 30% decrease in SIDS deaths in the US from 1993 to 1995.
http://sids-network.org/experts/conf30pcnt.htm
Both credit education about back sleeping for the dramatic and rapid decrease.
This article discusses SIDS rates in the UK, but in the context of exposure to passive smoking. It also shows a rate dropping from about 2.5 in every 1000 live births in 1988 to around 0.5 per 1000 in 1997 (also a drop of 80%). It also notes the introduction of back sleeping education.
http://www.ashaust.org.au/pdfs/SIDSreview07.pdf
I'm having trouble finding tables of vax rates over the same period, but I know they have not dropped by 80%. Closest I could find was this page that says while SIDS rates have declines massively, vax rates have increased.
http://www.vaccination.org.au/questions/question2123.html
It would seem to me, given the huge affect that back sleeping has had on SIDS and the known correlation between SIDS and smoking that vax status is not a factor.
Still looking though :D I want vax rate data.
ETA: got it :D
Vax rates in 1989/90 = 53% of 0-6 yo
Vax rates in 2000 = 90% of 12 months old are vaxxed to the schedule
http://www.health.gov.au/internet/wcms/publishing.nsf/Content/yr2007-dept-deptsp230707.htm
The SIDS rate decreases by 80% while the vax rate increases by 80%. These figures seem to refute any suggestion that vaxxing causes SIDS.
Cheers
ETA: I also found these two research articles about researching the vax status of SIDS cases:
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3567093
and various risk factors including vax status:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1365-2125.2001.00341.x
The SIDS kids were not more likely to be vaccinated than the control kids, vax rates were similar between the SIDS and control groups.
neostudded
24-12-2007, 00:51
Thanks for all the information :D
prideNJoy
24-12-2007, 11:19
What makes me concerned is every time Julius gets his needles he has trouble breathing & coughs untill he turns blue.It gets to the point that I feel as if he is going to die & I have trouble sleeping incase he dies while iam asleep.For the next week he has a high pitched, laboured cry.His legs become red raw & swollen.He also changes in personallity & has bad fevers.
After his 4 month shots he came home different.The last few days he has been sleeping alot & when he is awake, he isnt as alert.He often has a 'vacant' face expression & he is constanly groaning in pain.Yesterday he wouldnt hold his head up anymore, I walked him around the house with his head rested on my shoulder while he goaned & was very unresponsive.It was heart breaking.
I dont know what to do, I didnt want to get him jabbed in the first place until I have time to look into it.My mum kept nagging at me & challenging me about it.So I let her take him but blocked it our of my mind as much as I could.I still dont know what I want to do, I dont know where to find trust worthy information about it all.
But I know, I dont want him to die, & I feel as though he might just stop breathing.I dont want to go though this again.
I told my mum I dont want him having the routine 6 month jabs.As I have a bad gut feeling.But shes just telling me Iam over reacting ect basically not even listening to my concerns.
I dont know what to do about the whole thing.
I may even get him jabbed at an older age but I dont feel right getting him done at such a young age, to me it feels wrong & makes me ill thinking about it.
ETA, he aslo suffers vomiting
OMG, Please follow your instincts with these sorts of things, no amount of info studied would make me decide to continue vaxing if either of my children reacted like this! (not that i vax, because i chose to listen to that gut instinct from the very start).
My heart sank reading this, i just really really hope that no permanent damage has been done. :hugs:
If your mum gives you a hard time about the issue, you may need to remind her who's child it is! :shame:
Please make sure you report these reactions to your doctor!
no i dont think so.
I think SIDS is related to apnoea and that is part of the brain that forgets to take the next breath.
What makes me concerned is every time Julius gets his needles he has trouble breathing & coughs untill he turns blue.It gets to the point that I feel as if he is going to die & I have trouble sleeping incase he dies while iam asleep.For the next week he has a high pitched, laboured cry.His legs become red raw & swollen.He also changes in personallity & has bad fevers.
After his 4 month shots he came home different.The last few days he has been sleeping alot & when he is awake, he isnt as alert.He often has a 'vacant' face expression & he is constanly groaning in pain.Yesterday he wouldnt hold his head up anymore, I walked him around the house with his head rested on my shoulder while he goaned & was very unresponsive.It was heart breaking.
I dont know what to do, I didnt want to get him jabbed in the first place until I have time to look into it.My mum kept nagging at me & challenging me about it.So I let her take him but blocked it our of my mind as much as I could.I still dont know what I want to do, I dont know where to find trust worthy information about it all.
But I know, I dont want him to die, & I feel as though he might just stop breathing.I dont want to go though this again.
I told my mum I dont want him having the routine 6 month jabs.As I have a bad gut feeling.But shes just telling me Iam over reacting ect basically not even listening to my concerns.
I dont know what to do about the whole thing.
I may even get him jabbed at an older age but I dont feel right getting him done at such a young age, to me it feels wrong & makes me ill thinking about it.
ETA, he aslo suffers vomiting
Please talk to your doctor and keep seeing different doctors unti you get some answers!
It sounds as though he has an allergy to the vaccines. I definitely wouldn't be having his 6 months vaccs if I were you - tell your Mum your concerns and it really is 100% up to you whether he has them or not.
My son has never had a reaction to any of the vaccines, he didn't even get a mark where the needle went in BUT he vomited when he had the flu vaccine (my Mum had it and I was paranoid about the child deaths at the time from flu) he vomited and had a fever and I asked doctor after doctor until we realised that he has an egg allergy which sparked the reaction.
Please follow it up :)
Good luck. :hugs:
My son has never had a reaction to any of the vaccines, he didn't even get a mark where the needle went in BUT he vomited when he had the flu vaccine (my Mum had it and I was paranoid about the child deaths at the time from flu) he vomited and had a fever and I asked doctor after doctor until we realised that he has an egg allergy which sparked the reaction.
oooher .. interesting .. I"ve had ALL my vaxs .. but I will never have the flu vax again .. my arm swelled to double and got all hard, hot and red ..
JAck will be waiting till he is much much older to hvae that vax (due to my own reaction) .. but it will certainly be considered when he starts school ..
and I agree with Angike too .. if Julius is reacting like that after a needle - you need to see a GP ASAP ... you should have gone the FIRST time it happened .. I would hvae freaked out as a mum!!
xx
JEn
neostudded
24-12-2007, 14:51
no i dont think so.
I think SIDS is related to apnoea and that is part of the brain that forgets to take the next breath.Yeah but how do you know the vaccines doesnt damage their brains in any way that could affect their breathing.
you need to see a GP ASAP ... you should have gone the FIRST time it happened
We did, they just laughed & said it was allergies giving him problems breathing.I was told to give him cough meds.It didnt work.Then it was "reflux" so I had to give him that.Then it was a cheast infection, so he was on antibiotics.Then it was a reaction from the needles and/or asthma.We were given meds for both & he got better.The GP was laughing about it saying "oh it must be a reaction fom the needles, some babies just react badly blah blah blah:laughing:".When I first went in I said I think its a reaction from the needles he had no problems before that.& they kept insisting "no, its unrelated".
I said he had a bad reaction (fevers, crying vomitting ect) they just said, nah, thats normal, dont worry about it.:rolleyes:
So he didnt cough again after that until he had his next shots.Now he has laboured breathing again(not breath for a few seconds, then take a deep breath, then have a few short uneven breaths).
The other day when he couldnt hold his head up & was unresponsive & "floppy" it was heart breaking.He has never been like that in his life.:(
neostudded
24-12-2007, 15:03
OMG, Please follow your instincts with these sorts of things, no amount of info studied would make me decide to continue vaxing if either of my children reacted like this! (not that i vax, because i chose to listen to that gut instinct from the very start).
My heart sank reading this, i just really really hope that no permanent damage has been done. :hugs:
If your mum gives you a hard time about the issue, you may need to remind her who's child it is! :shame:
Please make sure you report these reactions to your doctor!
Iam going to follow my instincts now, Iam just very grateful I did follow then when he was born & didnt get him jabbed at birth.He got RSV when he was 11 days old & I often wonder if he had of had his needles then if he would have died.I have decided the other day he isnt getting vaxed for a long time if at all.I actually dont think ill even get him vaxed more as I dont want to cause further damage.The only problem is everyone makes me feel guilty about the whole thing but I dont care they can think what they want.I feel as if damage has been done already :(.But I guess now I cant change that.I did tell my doctor they didnt care, they acted like there was no concern.
Please talk to your doctor and keep seeing different doctors unti you get some answers!
It sounds as though he has an allergy to the vaccines. I definitely wouldn't be having his 6 months vaccs if I were you - tell your Mum your concerns and it really is 100% up to you whether he has them or not.
My son has never had a reaction to any of the vaccines, he didn't even get a mark where the needle went in BUT he vomited when he had the flu vaccine (my Mum had it and I was paranoid about the child deaths at the time from flu) he vomited and had a fever and I asked doctor after doctor until we realised that he has an egg allergy which sparked the reaction.
Please follow it up :)
Good luck. :hugs:
Thanks for you insight.:hugs:He definitley has a bad reactioon from the needles that iam sure of.Iam going to look into the whole thing more, but I hate doing it at the same time as I feel ba thinking about the damage that has been done already.I have spoken to the GP, they didnt seem to care.
KarniF00l
24-12-2007, 15:26
I'm not sure, but there is a possibility that it could be simply because vaccines aren't a one jab suits all. All babies react differently of course.
hailsntwang
24-12-2007, 18:32
My sister died from SIDS.
She was the fourth child born in our family and everything that was done to her was done to the rest of us.
I don't believe in that Immunisations can cause it.
Mum says that she was always a lot more sleepy then we had been. From the moment she came home from the hospital she slept all the time and Mum would actually have to wake her up for meal times, except that it always took a couple of times to wake her. (people just thought she was the perfect baby).
A couple of times when mum checked on her she was blue but the doctors always said she was perfect. Everything from her blood pressure to her breathing to her eating and weight gain were all normal.
She died at 3 months. Unfortunatly there just is no fortelling what may or may not be the cause of it which is equally distressing.
neostudded;2209166] how do you know the vaccines doesnt damage their brains in any way that could affect their breathing.
I dont know, neither did any Dr that i saw for my baby for her central sleep apnoea.
I do know that i had two others that had apnoeas right after birth and they had had no vaccines.
hailsntwang sounds a lot like my DD, only she was revived and is still with us. She had sleep apnoea.
Oscar's mum
24-12-2007, 21:14
I believe it may be a contributing factor..... not the sole cause of sids though.
Yes I do think the two are linked. I have had a friend recently who's baby suffered a severe anaphylactic reaction after a vaccination. The baby just stopped breathing and went limp and had to be taken to hospital via ambulance. Luckily they saved him and put it down to an adverse reaction to a vaccination.
Had it been the middle of the night and he'd been asleep in another room, he might of become another SIDS stastitic. I know there are other causes for SIDS as well but I don't think we should discount the devastating reactions to vax's some babies have.
no i dont think so.
I think SIDS is related to apnoea and that is part of the brain that forgets to take the next breath.
Although no expert i have read numerous articles about this... the brain being such a complex piece of machinery 'no-one' knows the full extent on how it works... I think there maybe some truth to this as the baby's brain goes through rapid development right through to 2 years... I've always wondered myself if it as something such as 'forgetting to breath'...
It may sound far fetched but in regards to epilepsy... All we know is the brains neurons misfire causing an 'episode'..Why? we still don't know...
We could question it forever...
I have only recently questioned the long term effects of vaccination... It's something i am still researching...
As far as SIDS is concerned I honestly can't comment as babies who have been un vaccinated have also unfortunately dies of SIDS...
I only hope that one day that technology will catch up and we will be able to understand more and learn what causes sids...
It's so sad...
Yes I do think the two are linked. I have had a friend recently who's baby suffered a severe anaphylactic reaction after a vaccination. The baby just stopped breathing and went limp and had to be taken to hospital via ambulance. Luckily they saved him and put it down to an adverse reaction to a vaccination.
Had it been the middle of the night and he'd been asleep in another room, he might of become another SIDS stastitic. I know there are other causes for SIDS as well but I don't think we should discount the devastating reactions to vax's some babies have.
but SIDS is death without reason.
Anaphylaxis (swelling of the airway) is cause of death.
It sounds like you really dont want to vax at all anyway, I know a lady who lost her baby to sids well before he had any chance to have any vaccinations, so we cant blame vaxxes for everything.
Hokey Pokey
29-12-2007, 11:56
Nope.
Yes I do think the two are linked. I have had a friend recently who's baby suffered a severe anaphylactic reaction after a vaccination. The baby just stopped breathing and went limp and had to be taken to hospital via ambulance. Luckily they saved him and put it down to an adverse reaction to a vaccination.
Had it been the middle of the night and he'd been asleep in another room, he might of become another SIDS stastitic. I know there are other causes for SIDS as well but I don't think we should discount the devastating reactions to vax's some babies have.
but SIDS is death without reason.
Anaphylaxis (swelling of the airway) is cause of death.
Yep SIDS is totally different to a bub dying from anaphylactic shock etc.
My cousin died from SIDS and he was unvaccinated and a family friends little girl died from SIDS yet she was fully vaxxed.. so no I don't think there is a link.
stellarella
29-12-2007, 12:13
I don't think anyone can possibly know.
Anecdotal stories should be taken with a grain of salt.
I think it is possible that vulnerable children could be at risk...anything is possible.
It is not a big factor for me in my decision.
stellarella
29-12-2007, 12:15
BTW just to clarify as I have noticed a few comments like "Well my son is vaccinated and he didn't die of SIDS"......
A LINK is not a cause and effect relationship!!
That means....one does not automatically result in the other.
A LINK means that something may INCREASE the rate of something else.
Just in case anyone wasn't clear on that!! ;)
stellarella
29-12-2007, 12:19
I know that when a baby dies unexpectedly and there is no known cause then it is named SIDS...what concerns me is that the cause could very well be related to a vaccine however we are calling it SIDS.
If a baby has a reaction to a vaccine alone in his cot how is anyone to know what happened in those last few minutes?
One would think there would be telltale signs of swelling, suffocation or whatever? In deaths like that I'm pretty sure they have to do an autopsy don't they?
the_queen
29-12-2007, 12:23
I know that when a baby dies unexpectedly and there is no known cause then it is named SIDS...what concerns me is that the cause could very well be related to a vaccine however we are calling it SIDS.
If a baby has a reaction to a vaccine alone in his cot how is anyone to know what happened in those last few minutes?
:iagree: this is the thing that is scary for me in terms of vaccination and SIDS. Not that vaccination necessarily causes SIDS, but just the fact that SIDS by definition is an indeterminate cause of death.
For me, it's a piece of information to put in the "Vaccinations CONS" pile.
I don't believe that the 2 are linked, but who really knows when there is no known cause to SIDS......RE: not getting anymore imunisations done. If my child had a reaction to them as yours has I would not go ahead with get anymore done either. All 4 of mine have been done and the only one that has had a reaction is DS2 who presented with excema after his 4 month ones.
MilkOnTap
30-12-2007, 11:31
Neo - I hope Julius is doing a bit better now.
Being a young Mum only makes it harder when you know your gut instinct is telling you something, but no one will listen to you; its horrible when you doubt yourself.
Please trust your instinct! We have them for a reason and no one else is going to feel the same maternal instincts for Julius that you do.
After reading your story it has me wondering whether I will let Jedd get his next lot of needles. I delayed them to 6 months, and he is almost due for his next round - but I'm so hesitant. I think I'll wait til 12 months....
secondtimearound2
30-12-2007, 13:55
Hey Neo trust your instinct!! If my kiddos had those reactions I wouldn't be doing any more either :hugs: I hope your little boy is feeling better!!
Pink Lady if you do that, then you may find vaccinating him at 6 months was a big waste of time. They recommend the 2,4,6 month vaccinations 8 weeks apart for a reason.
If you wanted to delay like that, it would of been more worthwhile if you delayed till 12 months initially then had the 3 shot schedule 8 weeks apart.
There prob isn't anything stopping her from delaying though. PL might just need to give him an extra shot at 12 months (so he does get them with the right interval). I guess that's just ANOTHER thing to discuss with the doc and weigh the pros and cons on, PL (sorry chickie :o).
Though there are some vax, that the older the child is, the less times you have to get them, isn't there? It's been a while - so I might be wrong.
All I meant about asking the doc would be that they could tell you if you start vaxxing at 12 months how many shots are needed - that's all. :) I seem to recall, the later you start, the less you need in the series.
Of course you take that info and weigh it up for yourself, but you'll know what the "required" number of doses are for your staring point.
Cheers
neostudded
30-12-2007, 22:59
Neo - I hope Julius is doing a bit better now.
Being a young Mum only makes it harder when you know your gut instinct is telling you something, but no one will listen to you; its horrible when you doubt yourself.
Please trust your instinct! We have them for a reason and no one else is going to feel the same maternal instincts for Julius that you do.
After reading your story it has me wondering whether I will let Jedd get his next lot of needles. I delayed them to 6 months, and he is almost due for his next round - but I'm so hesitant. I think I'll wait til 12 months....
Yeah I know, I told my mum two days ago Iam not getting him vaxed until he is older if that & I really want to look into it like I wanted to do in the first place before he gets anymore jabs.
She asked why & I said I have a bad gut feeling, & I dont like the way he reacted to the needles.I said it would save me alot of greif If I just waited until I make up my mind.
She said Iam just like that because Iam scared of needles & I need to grow up.
Then said Iam 'playing chance' with his life & I felt so annoyed I said "well it anything happen's to him Ill just have another one iam still young.:rolleyes:"
I said well Iam the mother, its my choice.
I wouldnt be suprized if my mum sneeks him to the GP & gets him jabbed again if she has the chance.:mad:
She got annoyed & said a few things randomly one of being "I believe anything I read online!"
What an insult to my intellegence, surley she knows deep down I have a mind of my own.She must have just acted on impluse.
I acted like I didnt hear her though because I had the feeling she was trying get a reaction of some sort.
Oh and Julius is doing better now, darling little mite :(
You poor thing :hugs:
It sounds like your mum is a bit of a worry wart and I think she cares immensely about your son but I think she's being really harsh.
You are his mother, put your foot down. You'll have to tell your mum your decision and that it's "end of story". Otherwise this will go on forever.
yes i do, i suggest reading latest( informed choice mag) which you can get from the AVN Australian vaccination network or buy dvd the hand that rocks the cradle ( links vaccine to sids) Dr Scheibner provided this in a four year study called cot watch, you could always google cot watch or dr scheibner, i didnt take the chance my beautiful health happy four month old is unvaccinated ,to much documentation saying vaccines are linked to ADHD Anapalaxis, artrtis,diabetes and the expect us to believe canceer is incresed by 300% and they dont no why formaldehyde and mercury in our vaccines might have something to do whith it
yes i do, i suggest reading latest( informed choice mag) which you can get from the AVN Australian vaccination network or buy dvd the hand that rocks the cradle ( links vaccine to sids) Dr Scheibner provided this in a four year study called cot watch, you could always google cot watch or dr scheibner, i didnt take the chance my beautiful health happy four month old is unvaccinated ,to much documentation saying vaccines are linked to ADHD Anapalaxis, artrtis,diabetes and the expect us to believe canceer is incresed by 300% and they dont no why formaldehyde and mercury in our vaccines might have something to do whith it
The AVN website is i believe very anti vax, there is probably not a whole lot of true info on there, but I suppose there has to be some anti vax websites.:flowerz:
prideNJoy
03-01-2008, 15:09
Sorry going a bit off topic here, but i don't understand that just because a site may be anti-vax or seem anti-vax that the info contained isn't factual ???
What's with that?
So i suppose any site that is pro-vax is nothing but true??
well from my own experiences with my 5 neices and nephews and all the study my brother has done on the subject, i am a firm believer that man has created ADHD and ADD,and peanut allerys anaphalaxis, one of my nephews is 12 and never been to school because of his problems, if vacines dont cause these type of disorders then how come it was never heard of 40 years ago when we as children only recieved 12 doses apposed to the massive 60 doses now given does this not scare you ??? we cant expect to inject a forien substance into our body and accully think there are no side affects do you even know what vaccines are grown on ???
MummaBear03
03-01-2008, 21:31
No one yet knows the real cause of SIDS but I doubt it has anything to do with vaccinations because most children are vaccinated but the SIDS rates are at a lower level than in the past.
My brother died of SIDS because back when he was a baby (just over 20 yrs ago) parents were told to sleep their babies on their belly.
SIDS also say it could be linked to blankets over faces, cot matresses, baby being around smokers, etc. I can't recall Sids and Kids mentioning immunization.
:iagree:
This is true, more babies than ever are now being vaccinated, yet the rate of SIDS is decreasing. We don't know the cause of it, but we do know what decreases the chances and vaccines have not been mentioned by SIDS and Kids at any time. :no:
MummaBear03
03-01-2008, 21:37
well from my own experiences with my 5 neices and nephews and all the study my brother has done on the subject, i am a firm believer that man has created ADHD and ADD,and peanut allerys anaphalaxis, one of my nephews is 12 and never been to school because of his problems, if vacines dont cause these type of disorders then how come it was never heard of 40 years ago when we as children only recieved 12 doses apposed to the massive 60 doses now given does this not scare you ??? we cant expect to inject a forien substance into our body and accully think there are no side affects do you even know what vaccines are grown on ???
ADD and ADHD and Autism and all those things have been around for a very, very long time. It's just that they haven't had a name until now. And many people with these conditions were locked away in mental institutions so we didn't see them in society. Children with ADD or ADHD were often the "naughty" ones in schools, the ones that were expelled and even ended up in jail. The condition isn't new, but the information we have on it is. As for peanut allergies, they have been around longer than vaccines have! Children were dying from preventable diseases pre-vaccines too. I haven't had my DD vaccinated against Chicken Pox or Flu so I do look into what vaccinations she has and don't just line up for everything that's on offer but I think it's dangerous to say that ADD and ADHD and peanut allergies are caused by vaccines.
ADD and ADHD and Autism and all those things have been around for a very, very long time. It's just that they haven't had a name until now. And many people with these conditions were locked away in mental institutions so we didn't see them in society. Children with ADD or ADHD were often the "naughty" ones in schools, the ones that were expelled and even ended up in jail. The condition isn't new, but the information we have on it is. As for peanut allergies, they have been around longer than vaccines have! Children were dying from preventable diseases pre-vaccines too. I haven't had my DD vaccinated against Chicken Pox or Flu so I do look into what vaccinations she has and don't just line up for everything that's on offer but I think it's dangerous to say that ADD and ADHD and peanut allergies are caused by vaccines.
:iagree: Well said!
I have deleted a number of off topic posts. Please contain your remarks to information and rebuttal of information, you do not need to discuss what actions may or may not have been taken by other members.
This is a thread about vax and SIDS, discussions along other lines should be given a new thread.
Cheers
can anyone show me the stats to say that sids is on a decline it doesn't match anything I have read???? I have not seen such statistics and as far as ADHD goes i am 43 years old and yes we had the occasional naughty child at school but nothing to the extent of my two nephews, i used to see them on tv and just think that kid needs a quick kick in the rear end, i have seen my brother he is not soft on his boys when they misbehave so beilieve me when i say its nothing to do with disapline,how can anyone expect to inject such foreign matters like formaldehyde,mercury,aluminium,phenol,acetone,
antifreeze,
animal organ tissue ( such as monkey,cow,chicken,pig,dog sheep, ect ,contaminant animal viruses (EG SV40 which causes cancer in humans )aborted human feotus cells,bacterial endotoxins,genetically modified yeast,animal,bacterial,viral dna and mutated human viruses(but the killed viruses can reactivate after being injected) and expect it to provide protection against childhood deases, hallo we cant expect to put this **** into somewhere it dosnt belong (in the human body) without any
Consequences, dar hallo
i had my rebella when i was 35 so i can see where you are coming from i am now angry to learn rebella vaccine is linked to artritis flu vaccine to old timers ( as i call it )
can anyone show me the stats to say that sids is on a decline it doesn't match anything I have read????
http://www.sidsandkids.org/documents/finalsidspaper2003_002.pdf
Page 3
SIDS Stats
"The SIDS death rate has fallen 59% since the introduction of the National SIDS and Kids
RTR program. However the rate of reduction has not been uniform across State and
Territories.
Tasmania and Victoria have experienced the highest decreases in the SIDS death
rate at 69% followed by South Australia (63%)
Queensland has experienced the smallest decrease of 39%
The Northern Territory has experienced an increase in the SIDS death rate of 11%"
pg 4
http://www.sidsandkids.org/documents/finalsidspaper2003_002.pdf
of course the sids foundation is going to tell you these statistics, they make millions each year on red nose day alone, and have been researching the subject for over 20 odd years with no cure, maybe you should look at DR Scheibner's research a four year study called cot watch that proved a link between vaccines and sids, the only one you are protecting here are the pharmacutical companies and thier greed (Dr Scheibner did it for the good of our children not for any money )the vaccine companies make billions a year on vaccines alone, people and greed, we are made to think thier protecting our health ( i once thought so, not anymore )
of course the sids foundation is going to tell you these statistics, they make millions each year on red nose day alone, and have been researching the subject for over 20 odd years with no cure, maybe you should look at DR Scheibner's research a four year study called cot watch that proved a link between vaccines and sids, the only one you are protecting here are the pharmacutical companies and thier greed (Dr Scheibner did it for the good of our children not for any money )the vaccine companies make billions a year on vaccines alone, people and greed, we are made to think thier protecting our health ( i once thought so, not anymore )
If you are referring to the national sids council of australia they are a not-for-profit organiastion. Call me naive but I believe their main objective is reducing the numbers of sids cases, your post makes it sounds like their objective is profit. There are many diseases/conditions/afflictions (not sure what the right word is here) that have been researched for a lot longer than 20 years without succeeding in finding a cure.
In regard to Dr Scheibner I would suggest anyone who reads anything by her also read this article (http://www.skeptics.com.au/journal/1997/1_immunise.htm)before making up your mind.
:)
And in regard to the author of that article, He also doesnt believe in acupuncture, religon, having a soul, life after death, alternative medicine, meditation ect.
That's ok - nor do I for the most part. :)
The article, however, I believe gives a strong critique of her work using referenced research. Pretty compelling I would say.
MummaBear03
04-01-2008, 08:04
Ok I could be wrong, but in this Cotwatch study it sounded to me like the children at risk after vaccines were already suffering some kind of breathing problem, apnoea? It's like the link between vaccines and autism, I believe there is a link, but only if that child had the defective gene known to result in autism anyway. So did I read it right? My eyes are kinda blurry and I haven't yet had enough coffee to wake up my brain, but that's how I read it, the studies were conducted on children who had laboured breathing anyway. Or if not conducted on them, the ones they refer to as "day zero" after the vaccines were already suffering from some kind of breathing issues that were pre-existing.
We can't ignore the fact that by vaccinating, we have wiped out Small Pox, a disease that resulted in many, many deaths before the vaccine was present. This is why I choose NOT to vaccinate against Flu, it's not something that's getting wiped out by the vaccine, and therefore getting stronger each year. I also don't vaccinate against Chicken Pox as it rarely results in death, in most cases the child doesn't even become ill, just itchy and they get 2 weeks off school. Sure if my child doesn't have chicken pox by the time she hits puberty I'll have her vaccinated against it because the later they get it, the more harmful it is to the body but until then I'll just wait for her to be exposed to it through daycare or school.
Sorry going a bit off topic here, but i don't understand that just because a site may be anti-vax or seem anti-vax that the info contained isn't factual ???
What's with that?
So i suppose any site that is pro-vax is nothing but true??
I have looked meljellybean, and i can't find anywhere in my post that says that pro vax sites contain all truth and nothing but the truth, you have every right to believe what ever you wish to believe, and for the record we can research ever site under the sun, but it still wont prepare us for what could be potentially around in the corner vaxed or not.
delirium
04-01-2008, 08:24
no i dont think so.
I think SIDS is related to apnoea and that is part of the brain that forgets to take the next breath.
:iagree: As others have said, it doesn't make sense that vaxxing is the cause of SIDS when vax rates are still pretty high and SIDS rates are low now. I read somewhere a while ago that a study was done on premmie babies (apparently premmies have a higher rate of SIDS than full termers) and what was contended was that premmies, when they dream, they dream of still being in the uterus. Of course with a cord in the womb they don't need to breathe, and that is supposedly what happens - they stop breathing during the dream.
prideNJoy
04-01-2008, 08:45
Ok I could be wrong, but in this Cotwatch study it sounded to me like the children at risk after vaccines were already suffering some kind of breathing problem, apnoea? It's like the link between vaccines and autism, I believe there is a link, but only if that child had the defective gene known to result in autism anyway. So did I read it right? My eyes are kinda blurry and I haven't yet had enough coffee to wake up my brain, but that's how I read it, the studies were conducted on children who had laboured breathing anyway. Or if not conducted on them, the ones they refer to as "day zero" after the vaccines were already suffering from some kind of breathing issues that were pre-existing.
Iv'e read it different,
In the computer print-outs of the breathing patterns, a stress-induced breathing pattern was apparent, with clusters of low-volume breathing hypopnea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypopnea) occurring around certain critical days following day zero which almost always turned out to be when vaccines were given.
That to me, says that the Hypopnea started after day zero which "almost always turned out to be when vaccines were given"
Hypopnea is a medical term for abnormally shallow breathing or slow respiratory rate.
A slight difference to Apnoea.
That's ok - nor do I for the most part. :)
The article, however, I believe gives a strong critique of her work using referenced research. Pretty compelling I would say.
Me neither. To me, it's a load of hoo haa. (My mum tried everything when she had cancer - thank goodness for proper medical treatment).
I think parents of children who die of SIDS have enough guilt to deal with without claims such as this adding to it - I wouldn't go around blaming SIDS on vaccinations until it had been proven. My brother died of SIDS 20 years ago and most people will agree that 20 years ago we didn't have as many vaccinations for 6 month olds 20 years ago.
prideNJoy
04-01-2008, 08:59
I have looked meljellybean, and i can't find anywhere in my post that says that pro vax sites contain all truth and nothing but the truth, you have every right to believe what ever you wish to believe, and for the record we can research ever site under the sun, but it still wont prepare us for what could be potentially around in the corner vaxed or not.
Your right jodie9, you didn't say anything about pro-vax sites in your post.
If you refer to mine you would note that it was a bit of tounge-in-cheek! And was actually a Q.
As i have noted in the past you have posted links to site/s that are cleary pro-vax. ie; govt websites :)
ETA: Can i just add a huge congrats for #10 on the way? WOW. :D
I'm not confident that vaxs are definately not linked, in some cases (not all) to SIDS.
Your right jodie9, you didn't say anything about pro-vax sites in your post.
If you refer to mine you would note that it was a bit of tounge-in-cheek! And was actually a Q.
As i have noted in the past you have posted links to site/s that are cleary pro-vax. ie; govt websites :)
ETA: Can i just add a huge congrats for #10 on the way? WOW. :D
meljellybean what's so wrong with placing your trust in the government/medical professions judgment,why would they encourage us so strongly to vaccinate our kids, do they want to wipe out our population, they are trying to protect our kids from these potentially fatal diseases, whats so wrong with that, and I am not interested in the so called blah blah about doc's getting so many trillions from vaccines, I really don't care,as long as my kids are protected from these diseases then i am happy, I dont pay for my vaccines, never have so Iam not interested in the money side of it.
Thanks for the congrats.:flowerz:
prideNJoy
04-01-2008, 14:34
meljellybean what's so wrong with placing your trust in the government/medical professions judgment,why would they encourage us so strongly to vaccinate our kids, do they want to wipe out our population, they are trying to protect our kids from these potentially fatal diseases, whats so wrong with that, and I am not interested in the so called blah blah about doc's getting so many trillions from vaccines, I really don't care,as long as my kids are protected from these diseases then i am happy, I dont pay for my vaccines, never have so Iam not interested in the money side of it.
Thanks for the congrats.:flowerz:
I don't trust Pharmaceutical Companies. Which is where the Govt, and Health Professional's obtain there info from.
IMO Dr.'s don't know enough about vaccinations to make me trust their 'professional' opinion.
I think nobody knows better than a mothers gut instinct.
If it feels wrong, then it most probably is wrong!
I still dont get it, like i have said b4 how can any one expect to put forien matter in their body and not have any side effects formaldehyde ( the world health organization said themselfs there is no safe level in the human body ) then why is it used as a preservitive in our vaccines ??? if any unvax people have researched they w ould now that the deseases where alrealy on a steady decline b4 vaccine where ever introduced,this is shown invaccine graphs, do you have any of these graphs perth pony
because i am not sure how to post them, i suggest every mom and dad read vaccine roulette ( which i have just started ) also a shot in the dark by harris l coulter and barbara loe fisher, some deseases have been eraticated
with out any vaccine at all ( tell me vax people now how could that be )
sorry, next time anyone gets a vaccive please ask your doc for the product discloser form for that particular vaccine,read it and i bet it says that there could be serious side effects or even death (and this is from the manufacturer) interesting point you made be4 peth pony about all the court cases in the usa, australia has not made vaccines compulsory as it would leave the government open to law suits (this should say it all )
Things I've read about and by WHO are all pro-vax.
sorry, next time anyone gets a vaccive please ask your doc for the product discloser form for that particular vaccine,read it and i bet it says that there could be serious side effects or even death (and this is from the manufacturer)
Do you mean the same type of side effects/ death that can occur from the diseases that we vaccinate for??? Like deafness?? blindness? there are risks to EVERY decision you make medically.. I"m tired of people constantly pointing out the consequences of vaccinations (POSSIBLE consequences...) not acknowledging the consequences of the actual disease...
if you read the list of side effects for ANY medication (panadol included) you will read some scary things .. the contraceptive pill .. has a horrid list of 'possible' side effects .. yet the majority of the population take it with minimal issue.
Do you mean the same type of side effects/ death that can occur from the diseases that we vaccinate for??? Like deafness?? blindness? there are risks to EVERY decision you make medically.. I"m tired of people constantly pointing out the consequences of vaccinations (POSSIBLE consequences...) not acknowledging the consequences of the actual disease...
if you read the list of side effects for ANY medication (panadol included) you will read some scary things .. the contraceptive pill .. has a horrid list of 'possible' side effects .. yet the majority of the population take it with minimal issue.
:iagree: :yelclap:
great post veve but the disease isnt going to cause SIDS If a disease caused death then it would be death with a reason and not SIDS and thats what this is about. If we think the vax will cause SIDS.
just google vaccine graphs you will see that in 1860 1200 hundred childen under the age of 15 died of measles by 1960 it had almost been irradicated the vaccine itself didnt come into production till around 1965 years after it was already irradicated, please explain the why scarlet fever isnt ramped there has never been a vaccine for scarlet fever and yet we never see it any more
but i bet if there had been a vaccine everyone would use it, i can understand where you are coming from i allways got myself and my pets vaccinated i left it up to my doc after all he is the one that went to uni, it is quite sad that we our health in the hands of others but are lucky now with the net we have the knowhow to look further, we can now all be responsable for ourselfs, i wouldnt have believed either maybe i didnt want to ??
I would be incredibly wary of what I read on the internet. There's some very, very dodgy sites out there.
Self diagnosing is not usually recommended, so I don't see why immunizing or not immunizing due to what you read on the net would be advisable..
Some viruses / diseases come and go. They can have "outbreaks" that come and go - doesn't necessarily mean that they have disappeared forever.
I still dont get it, like i have said b4 how can any one expect to put forien matter in their body and not have any side effects formaldehyde ( the world health organization said themselfs there is no safe level in the human body ) then why is it used as a preservitive in our vaccines ??? if any unvax people have researched they w ould now that the deseases where alrealy on a steady decline b4 vaccine where ever introduced,this is shown invaccine graphs, do you have any of these graphs perth pony
because i am not sure how to post them, i suggest every mom and dad read vaccine roulette ( which i have just started ) also a shot in the dark by harris l coulter and barbara loe fisher, some deseases have been eraticated
with out any vaccine at all ( tell me vax people now how could that be )
I know very few children (less than 10) and I was talking to my bestie last night (who lives in germany). Her 2 children recently had scarlet fever.
secondtimearound2
04-01-2008, 20:18
What is scarlet fever?
Scarlet fever is an uncommon reaction to a bacterial infection, usually of the throat (‘strep throat’). The bacteria (streptococcus) make poisons (toxins) which circulate in the blood and cause a fever, a fine raised rash on the neck, chest, under the arms, in the elbows and on the inside of the thighs. The rash may make the skin feel rough.
The infection causing the scarlet fever needs to be treated with antibiotics (often penicillin) to prevent complications due to the toxin, including heart problems (rheumatic fever) and kidney problems (glomerulonephritis).
The infection is spread by droplets of infected saliva from the mouth, and from a runny nose when the person sneezes and coughs.
Only a few people who have the bacterial infection ('strep throat') will get scarlet fever.
The thread has again drifted off the topic and is now closed. Thanks to all who contributed.
Cheers
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