View Full Version : breastfeeding 4 year old and nine year old
just seeing what your thoughts are. mine are that both the ages is way too old they are two stories out of womans day this week 6/3/2006:confused:
Ffrenchknickers
06-03-2006, 14:21
I wouldnt do it (I dont think,....but you never know) but I really dont mind what anyone else does in their own family as long as its done out of love:)
Each to their own....:D
Wow! Does it say her reasons for breastfeeding that long?
I think that is pretty incredible! Not really what I would do but I definately would give her a pat on the back for her efforts!;)
Ffrenchknickers
06-03-2006, 14:28
They will probably be really healthy kids and have great immune systems:thumbsup:
They will probably be really healthy kids and have great immune systems:thumbsup:
Yeah I would definately be interested to know if they are really healthy kids!
I wonder when she actually plans to give up too?
Imogensmum
06-03-2006, 14:41
I think it is wrong- imagine the teasing those children would cop at school! Mainly the 9 year old:thumbsdown: !
I totally believe feeding your child breast milk for the first 2 years is fantastic- (even though my daughter is now formula fed)- but i think there is an age it needs to stop!
nemosmum
06-03-2006, 14:55
Im with you Imogensmummmy,
I think BM is Great and bf my son till he was almost one :)
BUT I think we need to really consider the emotional and psycological ramifications of bfing a child who is say (in this case) 9 years old.
I havent read this article so dont know any details so cant really comment iykwim HOWEVER lol I will say this, if the child is being bf because of the health benefits couldnt the mother express and offer it in a cup???
I think a child of this age is going to be sent some seriously messed up ideas iykwim JMO:)
babycrazy
06-03-2006, 14:56
Sorry but I think breast feeding a 9 year old is perverted. Even African countries dont do it THAT long!
I have a 9 year old. The thought makes me feel sick - and I really really doubt that any self respecting 9 year old would be doing it out of CHOICE. I think it is psychologically abusive. I would love to see that kid in 10 years time - bet he/she is in therapy big time - or has some major "mummy" issues. I think the mother needs a psychiatric assessment.
I think 4 is too old too - but I can see how possibly the kid might still be attached to it as a comfort thing - I mean I had to prise the dummy away from my 5 year old - well actually the Dummy fairy came.
Ok pro breast feeders - feel free to shoot me down. LOL
Imogensmum
06-03-2006, 14:57
I really like that cup idea- as you said if it is for health reasons that would be a brilliant way to keep it up!:thumbsup:
( ialso haven't read the article)
babycrazy
06-03-2006, 15:30
Sorry - just had to ask - What possible health reasons could there be for a 9 year old? ???
I mean come on - breast milk is good and everything but your immunity is built up by fighting infections which I am sure a 9 year old should have had a few of.
Breast milk is only as good as the food you eat though - vitamins arent made magically.
I read an article once about a woman whose hubby liked breast milk. Urrggh.:eek:
Are you sure the woman isnt doing it to keep the weight off. LOL:laughing:
i will scan and post the articles for you to read
Ana Gram
06-03-2006, 15:43
I just read it and from what I could tell there wasn't any real reason as to why. Just that she didn't want to give up the bond and her girls didn't seem interested in giving it up.
I have to admit, I am a bit grossed out by the thought of this.
My personal opinion is that its just wrong, i can't imagine anything worse than having memories of sucking my mothers breast:eek:
if you want a copy of the articles i will have to send them through email as i am not able to copy them to the froum for some reason
ThomasMum
06-03-2006, 16:06
I've seen and read similar subject before. The World Health Organisation recommends that all children are breastfed until at least two years. But I guess if you can do it longer why not provide that BM is not the only main meal yeah? But don't just use stories from the under-developed countries as a ref that its OK to breastfeed til the later age, because unfortunately and sadly *sigh* for them BM is their only main resource.
I'd like to have a read- feel free to email them to me...
I personally think that once Jack is able to walk and talk (lift my shirt and say boobie loudly in the shops) that is when he will DEFINATELY be weaned LOL :laughing:
hmm I'd have to say that the breastfeeding would have to be for mums benefit!!! I wonder what her DH thinks??? (maybe she wasn't going to be able to have anymore kids and decided to continue with the two girls??>?)
xxxx
I find it strange mainly because I don't think it is right to baby a nine year old. I wouldn't let my nine year old have a dummy, bottle, stroller etc. I am concerned that in this case, the mother can't let go of her babies. I guess it is up to individuals what they do in their family and decide a cutt off point for weaning but what are the medical reasons for continuing breast feeding so late? If there is some medical reason I think expressing milk into a cup would me more appropriate. I feel breast feeding is for babies and toddlers not tweens.
Imogensmum
06-03-2006, 16:30
I am wondering if in the case of the 9 year old it would constitute abuse of some form?
Does anyone know if it would?
angcaltam
06-03-2006, 16:31
Hey Pumpkin,
I would really like to read the articles, could you please email them to me.
Thanks.
My email is mcochrane74@optusnet.com.au
Ffrenchknickers
06-03-2006, 16:41
I would never breastfeed a nine year old but......
I am wondering if in the case of the 9 year old it would constitute abuse of some form?
is going a bit far IMO:confused:
neneales
06-03-2006, 16:48
I just have to say I think its totally wrong to BF a 9 yr old!! To me I think it is abuse as the 9 yr old isnt a baby anymore the child goes to school and Im sure she would be getting teased for it, I know kids can be very cruel and its not right to tease but the mother should stop and think of the torture she is putting that girl through!!
I agree with the cup idea if she wants her daughter to have BM that badly then express and save the child some physicological problems!!
I would actually like to find out whether or not she is sexually abusing her daughter by doing that!!!
Thats my opinion curse me if u like but Im totally disgusted!!:thumbsdown:
reAllytee
06-03-2006, 16:55
Well personally i dont like it or agree with it but thats JMO i guess each to their own.
I guess the reason i have a problem with it is because of my cousins ex-wife she was still very eerrr whats the word "attached" to her mother even at 23yrs of age :eek:
Which is why i would be worried about what sort of "bond" this mother was creating at this age.
Mamaduke
06-03-2006, 17:18
Well that probably explains alot of the 'smother in laws' and the sons who are ruled by them problems...
((mental note))... ask DH if he was breast fed tonight!!!
This could explain ALOT!:rolleyes:
I think once a child can say "I'll have the left boob thanks mum" They're too old!!:laughing:
I question whether breast milk actually has any nutritional benefits for a 9 year old child...
I don't think it does. I think it seems more of a comfort thing. That's disgusting. Those children will have problems. Of that, I am sure. Freud would have a field day!
:eek:
Gossip columns claim a top Aussie radio personalit
breastleeds her eight-year-old. Meet more women
taking the practice beyond the accepted age...
I BREASTFEED Ik4
N1 E 1YEAK1wUL
VERONIKA ROBINSON HAS only just stopped breastfeeding, even though her daughters Eliza and Bethany are aged eight and nine.
Like many young mothers, when she gave birth to daughter Bethany in 1996, Veronika knew instantly she was going to breastfeed her.
"Breastfeeding creates a close, strong bond that you just can't
get from a bottle. I'm from a family of eight and my mother breastfed us for a year."
According to 38-year-old Veronika, once Bethany was
12 months old, people began to ask her when she would wean her from the breast.
"But, it seemed too soon," she says today.
"The idea of ending our breastfeeding relationship scared me - and I thought it was cruel to deprive my little girl of the comfort and nutrition of the breast."
When Eliza came along in 1998, Bethany was 22 months old and still suckling.
"The more I thought about it the more I didn't want to stop. Why should I take her off the breast to feed her with milk from another animal?" Veronika asks.
I fed Bethany during labour
Veronika even breast-fed Bethany through her labour, and when her little sister arrived the two girls fed side-by-side.
She continued to feed both from the breast as they grew older and Veronika learned more about the benefits of breast milk.
"The `terrible twos' became
the terrific twos as they were comforted, nurtured and nourished through the rocky road of toddlerhood by my breasts," she says enthusiastically.
"Tandem feeding was part of everyday life. Up to the age
our breast
'onship scared me...'
rAPregnant
Veronica
feeds
Bethany.
of three there was nowhere
I considered off limits. I'd breastfeed in the bank manager's office, libraries, supermarkets, the swimming pool and even church," she says.
Veronika and her husband Paul, 57, decided they wanted to raise their children in a similar way to the Yequana Indians, a stone-age people in South America. In their culture, there was a close bond between mother and child. That meant the family "shared" a bed - two double mattresses side-by-side - which made breastfeeding the girls much easier.
"Getting dressed in the
of the benefits term nursing,
morning could be difficult, though, as the girls didn't like me to wear a bra," she reveals.
"It `trapped' my boobs and they preferred them to be floating for easy access."
'She'd do it until she was 100 if she could'
When the girls reached ages four and five, Veronika chose to breastfeed them at home and frequency dwindled to twice a day.
"Bethany pretty much self-weaned at age five but on her ninth birthday her special birthday wish was a breastfeed.
"It was a lovely last reminder of her early childhood.
"Eliza only gave up the breast just before her eighth birthday and said she'd do it until she was 100 if she could.
"It's wonderful when your child can tell you how much they enjoy breastfeeding."
She says both girls "loved a bit of breast" for breakfast.
"Bethany still swears my breast milk is the best taste in the world," she says.
"Breast milk's essential to health because it builds up the immune system and full-term breastfeeding offers emotional stability."
BY RUTH DOHERTY
nnnRru 1q Anna
& I LOVE
'Iltistan Rubio-TLrtle flies around the living room, smiling and laughing. But when he falls over, he wails and runs to his mum. 'To calm him,, she offers him her breast to suckle. Delores sees nothing wrong in comforting her four-year-old child like this.
"If anything happens to TYistan, he'll say, `Mummy, give me some to cure me', and he recovers instantly," says Dolores, 41.
She feeds 'IYistan in the morning to wake him up and in the evening to help him sleep. If he wants "comfort" in between, he gets it
"I never thought I'd breastfeed for this long," she says. "But w ' e'IYistan still wants my , I'm happy to give it to him. Llove to see him peaceful and happy."
Dolores is aware that many people will be horrified that she's breastfeeding a four-year-old. And, in fact, husband Nigel isn't entirely comfortable with the situation.
"In many ways, breastfeeding makes the father redundant," says Nigel. "As the child gets older, the father can normally take
suckles, to whi
replies, "No, it'4~ `.
At the mo
'IYistan is rare .f
from Dolo never alts
a pre-schoo of any kind only recen s sleeping irthis own bed.
But he's-=
is rarest r71 is sure he'll
of breastfeeding his own time.
Meanwhile, the motherof-one can't think of a downside to her unorthodox parenting style.
"My breasts haven't suffered," she says. "Sometimes breastfeeding is the only peace I get
"When I see how happy Tristan is while he's feeding, it makes me wonder how
any mum can deny their child that pleasure."
BY NATASHA HOLT
TO GIVE IT TO HIM
him "that's ~T,
Delores believes that breastfeeding Tristan keeps him "peaceful and happy".
a more active role - I can't do that."
Dolores' relatives have
en tried to stop,_
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H Omwww o
~~e ~ig m not
the cultural norm, many rep lions
swear by its health benefits. The th Organisation {wx©) recorntnendar .,;
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be exclusively breasifed for :months of their lives. After that, WHO ecombibends
infants should receive "nutritionally,, . complementary ft s", why
continues for "up totwo leant
Director of the man arcs
Centre Kate Morteu ys, f sustained
breastfeed ng are t ry for the elriild. Mothers benefit, too. Mothers who breastfeetl longer
have a'lower riskyy anaemia, reduced risk of ;
osteoporosis, a lower risk of # and often a sense of personal
_ hear your
views on this subject, or any other raised in this week's mag. Write to Tell The Day,
°ma°i; Da 414% Sydney, NSW 2001,
w: or email ; ~ •'nes,com.au
mummycloud
06-03-2006, 18:20
My MIL would still be bf'ing DH if she could :rolleyes:
Mamaduke
06-03-2006, 18:23
some more 'extended breastfeeding'....
http://williesfunnies.blogspot.com/2005/11/little-britaina-classic-clip.html
click on the picture...
jarrahsmumma
06-03-2006, 18:58
The GLOBAL average age of breastfeeding is four. I think you are all making a bit much out of this...
I know that bf is good for bubs, but I think that this is just a tad extreme!:rolleyes:
I think these mums might have issues with letting go of their little ones, which is kind of sad I think.
Baby Girl
06-03-2006, 19:37
I want to read this article. I have the womans day from 6/3/06 but can't find it in there.
Is it the one with bec, lleyton and baby on the cover with "my baby drama" - I know it isn't bec who is the 9 year breastfeeder but is this the right mag???
nemosmum
06-03-2006, 19:54
What I would like to know is when is this women going to stop bfing her child????
When she goes to high school or perhaps Uni????
I mean come on.......what age does bfing become inappropriate???
I personally believe that bf a 9yr old child is a form of sexual abuse, no grey area about it, it is weird and wrong and the child will ultimatly end up with many issues, nearly all forms of child sexual abuse at the hands of a parent/close relative is done in the name of 'love', yet it is not a reason to condone it. Im all for extended bf, but once a child turns 4 i think it all becomes unnecessary, and any older than that is simply abuse.
nemosmum
06-03-2006, 19:56
Nicely said Coops:thumbsup:
I agree:)
Crazy Monkey
06-03-2006, 19:57
JMO but that is sick... I think it is pushing the limits of abuse..
I breastfeed my DS but I can't see myself feeding past 2 years... Am actually just aiming for 12 months and then start to wean...
JMO though
I also agree with Coops. I personally think it is disgusting (not bf in general, just at that older age) and it must be some sort of sexual abuse. I wonder if the mother is getting off on the feeling.
I bf all 3 of my children, but would never in my wildest dreams think of continuing it for that long.
I want to read this article. I have the womans day from 6/3/06 but can't find it in there.
Is it the one with bec, lleyton and baby on the cover with "my baby drama" - I know it isn't bec who is the 9 year breastfeeder but is this the right mag???
no wrong mag it has simone warne on it she took shane back (pmsl) and has sally carey on it with deadbeat wayne carey too.
LoopyLyndaLou
06-03-2006, 20:10
Hi Sorry of I am repeating anything but I havent had time to read the whole thread.
I have just come over from the UK and just before I left I saw a programme about extreme breasfeeeding which covered four main families. On the trailer it said about a woman breast feeding her 8 year old daughter.
Of course as a breast feeding mother I thought I should watch this but was prepared to be disgusted as I did feel this was too old but I was actually surprised at how I felt.
The family they used was the 'wrong' family to show. the lady had two daughters who were both bf until they were old, the youngest at 8 still being fed. During the filming of the programme the daughter stopped feeding as she lost the ability to suck. This made me think that if it took her until she was 8 before nature let her lose that ability then perhaps is is acceptable to feed a child to that age and many generations ago perhaps that is how it was and it is only society putting pressure on us that makes it seem so wrong. It defintiely gave me food for thought.
The reason I say this was the wrong family to show was because the entire family, mother, father and two girls were totally obsessed with the mothers breasts. The girls drew pictures of them, they had pet names for each one and wanted their own so they could play with them, the older girl was jealous of the younger one as she was still feeding and apparently the father occassionally joined in feeding sessions too. It made it all seem very dirty and I have to question whether the feeding was for the childs benefit or the mothers and/or fathers. I suspect if their child was a boy then some form of abuse case would have to be answered.
It did not look right to see a child of that age feeding but again that is what we have been brought up to think so my instant feeling of revulsion I don't think is a fair feeling.
I was left very confused after watching the programme as to what I thought was 'right'. From all the cases shown it did seem that they chose extreme example for those that were feeding older children. I know I will continue to breast feed for some time, although I am cutting it down now. I stopped feeding my oldest at 11 months, my second at 18 months and the little one is 17 months now.
This is always going to be such a moot point and no one can ever agree on what is right, each case is individual.
Lynda x
it says in teh article that they even had beds together with their parentsso that breastfeeding was easier and for the ninth daughters bday she wanted a breast feed so she gave it to her. sorry but this is totally abuse and something neededto be done before it got to this stage but its makes me feel sick she must either have mental or emotional problems herself or is just fuly perverted and by looking at the 2 kids in the pic with her they look different (iykwim):thumbsdown:
some more 'extended breastfeeding'....
http://williesfunnies.blogspot.com/2005/11/little-britaina-classic-clip.html
click on the picture...
Ahhhhh :laughing: Friends were telling us about that on sat night!!!!
The reason I say this was the wrong family to show was because the entire family, mother, father and two girls were totally obsessed with the mothers breasts. The girls drew pictures of them, they had pet names for each one and wanted their own so they could play with them, the older girl was jealous of the younger one as she was still feeding and apparently the father occassionally joined in feeding sessions too. It made it all seem very dirty and I have to question whether the feeding was for the childs benefit or the mothers and/or fathers. I suspect if their child was a boy then some form of abuse case would have to be answered.
It doesnt matter if it is a boy or a girl, woman can sexually abuse girls, just like men can sexually abuse boys. I cant understand why this was allowed to be aired as some sort of documentary about extended bf?? Especially as the father was getting involved as well, I mean why just because there is milk coming out of them is it acceptable for a whole family of older children to regulary suck on their mums breasts? Those parents should both be arrested.
MilkOnTap
06-03-2006, 20:38
9 years old!!! :eek:
With all the hormones injected into chicken and other poultry and dairy products these days, girls are hitting puberty at 9 and 10 years old!
Puberty and breastfeeding at once just does NOT seem right to me...
Ffrenchknickers
06-03-2006, 20:38
Seriously, sexual abuse is such a serious thing, a horrific thing. Imagine being accused of sexually absuing your own children when you arent:( Imagine going throught that as a parent. Why is it ok for us to sit here and accuse someone we dont even know of abusing their kids that they probably love just like we love our kids?
I agree that there are probably emotional issues going on here but sexual abuse?? This mother has obviously breastfed her children since birth, so at what magic age does it change from feeding to abuse? Was it abuse from day 1 or did it become abuse on their 5th birthday, 6th? This family is out inthe open about this and not trying to hide it....if it were something sinister then I'm sure they wouldnt have it published in a huge magazine.
Yup, maybe the mum can't let go, but lets be fair here. I wouldnt feed a nine year old (infact I am tring to wean my 21 month old at the moment)but obviously some people would....
mummycloud
06-03-2006, 21:34
some more 'extended breastfeeding'....
http://williesfunnies.blogspot.com/2005/11/little-britaina-classic-clip.html
click on the picture...
:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
mummycloud
06-03-2006, 21:37
What worries me is that the 9 year old sleeps in the room :eek: did she WATCH them conceive with her younger sister?????
If anyone says... well they would have moved her out that night...well..if they can move her out for sex, then why move her IN to feed her???? Surely she can last till morning without a tit!!! :confused:
:shame:
Hey Ffrenchie, we agree on most things, but im afraid we do not agree on this. :shame: ;)
Having a 9 yr old child suckle on your breast whether there is milk coming out of it or not is a form of abuse, I think the problem with the definition of sexual abuse is that people often assume that it is only sexual abuse if the child/adolescent has negative, painful feelings about it, sexual abuse can in some instances still feel good to a child, and sometimes the yucky feelings dont come about till later, and this is when it gets blurry and people can start justifying it by declaring that it is happening because of love, nurturing etc, Im sorry if i get shot down for this strong opinion, but i think sometimes we all worry to much about hurting other parents feelings instead of protecting the rights of the child iykwim? (not you in particular, just society in general)
personally i would not feel comfy feeding an 8yr old.
but have read somewhee of some anthropological evidence pointing towards 6ish being the age to wean, from memory it had to do with losing our 'milk teeth' around then.
Ffrenchknickers
06-03-2006, 22:30
Well, coops, I am glad we agree on most things:D We'll have to agree to diagree on this one...
but i think sometimes we all worry to much about hurting other parents feelings instead of protecting the rights of the child iykwim?
I know what you mean by that and I for one never have anything more in the forefront of my mind than protecting kids. But, on the flipside, I think the society we live in is hell bent (again, not you, society!) on accusing people and suuing people and taking people to court:(
My MIL would still be bf'ing DH if she could :rolleyes:
LMAO
So would mine
Tea Lady
06-03-2006, 22:38
Well, personally I plan to wean DD at around 12 or 13...... I wouldn't want it to go on too long, plus I think I'll find it hard getting up to her highschool for her feeds. :D
reAllytee
06-03-2006, 22:46
Well, personally I plan to wean DD at around 12 or 13...... I wouldn't want it to go on too long, plus I think I'll find it hard getting up to her highschool for her feeds.
LMAO :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
Freddyboy
06-03-2006, 22:52
I question whether breast milk actually has any nutritional benefits for a 9 year old child...Those children will have problems. Of that, I am sure. Freud would have a field day!
:eek:
I personally believe that bf a 9yr old child is a form of sexual abuse, no grey area about it, it is weird and wrong and the child will ultimatly end up with many issues, nearly all forms of child sexual abuse at the hands of a parent/close relative is done in the name of 'love', yet it is not a reason to condone it. Im all for extended bf, but once a child turns 4 i think it all becomes unnecessary, and any older than that is simply abuse.
Breastmilk wouldn't stop having nutritional value just because a child is older....does cow's milk become less nutritional at a certain age? like 5 or 6? Oh and adults drink it too....isn't it grose how we continue to drink the breastmilk of another animal......until the day we die, be it 70, 80, 100!!! How disgusting, that must be abuse!!!
Why is age four a magical number? Because this is what you feel comfortable with? Isn't everyone entilted to have their own say on what age they feel is appropriate? I recall people thinking is disgustng if you breastfed a child past the age of one.......now its two.....perhaps you are all slowly learning!
Shall we call abuse on children who use sippy cups past a certain age...I mean children should be able to drink from a cup at the age of one....and a sippy cup involves sucking, so isn't that abuse sucking something to get a drink? Oh thats right its only abuse when the breast (as perceived by western culture) is sucked..right?
Why will these children have problems, becuase our society perceives this as wrong?
If they had extended dummy use or bottle use, or if the *shock horror* sucked their thumbs until age 9 would we think they would still have problems, think they were being sexually abused?
Its better to force a child to give up their dummies/breasts/bottles, use control crying, teach them they don't need comfort....that better isn't it...so that they too can conform to our wonderful society.
Is it the fact that western society sexualises the breast that makes you all react the way you do?
Do you have a problem with a 5 year old who still uses a dummy at night? You should have as it represents a nipple and thats sexual isn't it?
Western society has some really strange ideas..........I mean its ok to sexualise our children with clothes/television etc.....and we accept it...but do something like breastfeed a child over 4 and *GASP* you are sick and perverted.....
I think we need to step back and take a good look at ourselves.........
Oh and..........( I agree on the making too much out of this below :D)
The GLOBAL average age of breastfeeding is four. I think you are all making a bit much out of this...
The global age for weaning is closer to 7 :)
Ffrenchknickers
06-03-2006, 22:55
it grose how we continue to drink the breastmilk of another animal......
LOL, yeah I think about that all the time and it DOES gross me out! COws milk is for baby cows :rolleyes: I'd rather drink breastmilk!:D
SOrry, off topic.....
reAllytee
06-03-2006, 23:02
Im sorry that you cant see what we are talking about but maybe you help with causing a "problem" by making such a post ?
Oh & btw i do worry about these kids & what they shall grow up thinking !
My cousins ex still suckled with her mother at 23yrs & its probably still ongoing for all i know !
So yes i do think it could lead to somthing more dangerous especially as this girl didnt think anything of it even to the point where she refused to go on her honeymoon with her husband because she couldnt be away from Mummy !!! Everyone thought they had a close bond but no one guessed that until they were walked in on :eek:
There is a difference from a child suckling her mothers breast as a young child but as of 8yrs as Ally84 pointed out most kids today are going through puberty so im sorry there are hormones involved so for me thats just wrong.
Freddyboy
06-03-2006, 23:10
Im sorry that you cant see what we are talking about but maybe you help with causing a "problem" by making such a post ?
Oh & btw i do worry about these kids & what they shall grow up thinking !
My cousins ex still suckled with her mother at 23yrs & its probably still ongoing for all i know !
So yes i do think it could lead to somthing more dangerous especially as this girl didnt think anything of it even to the point where she refused to go on her honeymoon with her husband because she couldnt be away from Mummy !!! Everyone thought they had a close bond but no one guessed that until they were walked in on :eek:
There is a difference from a child suckling her mothers breast as a young child but as of 8yrs as Ally84 pointed out most kids today are going through puberty so im sorry there are hormones involved so for me thats just wrong.
No not trying to cause trouble at all...just trying to give some insight to how it can be looked at from the other point of view. It is ok isn't it for me to disagree......isn't it?
Hey you know why kids are going through puberty earlier? It's all those hormones pumped into our cows.........
If they had extended dummy use or bottle use, or if the *shock horror* sucked their thumbs until age 9 would we think they would still have problems, think they were being sexually abused?
Do you have a problem with a 5 year old who still uses a dummy at night? You should have as it represents a nipple and thats sexual isn't it?
umm I think your rant/ post was a little too forcefully worded - you will end up in a confrontation if you do not re-read your posts and make them a little less 'angry' to read..
but yes - I would be concerned if a 9 year old in my class was still sucking their thumb or needing to use a bottle to drink... and YES my first thought would be - what is going on at home that this child needs their thumb for comfort?? - when a cuddle and a warm, safe secure bed and home should do... unless the child has an actual impairment I see no need for this ???
I also think that by the time a kid starts school or prep the dummy should be well and trully gone ... once a kid starts to SPEAK the dummy should disappear (you cant talk with a dummy in your mouth)- most kids wean themselves of such things anyway...
xxx
[/B][QUOTE=allyoo]
My cousins ex still suckled with her mother at 23yrs & its probably still ongoing for all i know !
Oh no:eek: Sorry but that is disturbed and if anyone disagrees with me,well I will be lost for words!!!!
Hey you know why kids are going through puberty earlier? It's all those hormones pumped into our cows.........
I"d like to see documentation to back this up???
years ago people were having families in their teens (puberty earlier back then too? ) ... as the general lifespan was only thirty...
I personally think that the early hormones is just a cycle that humans go through -our bodies and species is constantly evolving ... feel free to dispute my theory - which is all that it is ... theory...
reAllytee
06-03-2006, 23:22
Hey you know why kids are going through puberty earlier? It's all those hormones pumped into our cows.........
Of course i know this i have read a few things on it & find it disturbing but i thank God every day we havent quite gotten into the same area that the U.S has !
But it is also a fact back in the dark ages we were all married off around the age of 10yrs & having children by 12yrs so whats the deal there ?
Oh & what about girls in say Africa having children around the 9yr mark ? I dont believe thay have hormones pumped into their food either.
reAllytee
06-03-2006, 23:23
Oh no:eek: Sorry but that is disturbed and if anyone disagrees with me,well I will be lost for words!!!!
Yes well ..........:eek:
LilShenanigans
06-03-2006, 23:23
I read it today and I'm in two minds about it, ok on one hand I do think it's a bit disturbing, on the other I can understand...
The mother creates a long lasting bond, health reasons etc etc... I like to think other 9yo are drinking soda and rotting their health, these kids aren't.
Feel sorry for the father though (one of them), so basically said sometimes there's just no need for me....
Anyway, I think the most icky thing was the 8yo and 9yo, who not only were still being breastfed, but also all sharing a room. And the girls also disliked their mother wearing a bra - they preferred her to free and 'accessible'... :eek:
I'd feel quite proud for those mothers, not only did they keep breastfeeding for so bloody long, they maintained a good bond with their children (for now) and they weren't ashamed to admit or have their photos in a nationally distributed magazine...
Mummabear
06-03-2006, 23:27
Blah. trying to think of something intelligent to say. too late and too tired. I think it's wrong. I wouldn't do it. Yes, I do believe it has something to do with how western society percieves 'boobs' but these children are growing up in western society and are going to sexualise boobs just like the rest of us at some stage in their lives. I think an extended attachment to suckling at their mothers boobs can only serve to confuse them once they hit the already confusing point of puberty.
Freddyboy
06-03-2006, 23:32
http://www.babyreference.com/EarlyPuberty.htm
Coming of Age in America (Much Too Soon)
Girls in the U.S. and other industrialized nations are now reaching puberty at drastically earlier ages.1 However, Hispanic-American girls don't experience this early puberty to the extent that many other Americans do, reported Mary Wolf,MD, at the American Association for Cancer Research's annual meeting in April, 1999 in Philadelphia.2
Two factors proven responsible for precocious puberty are detached parenting3 and consumption of cow's milk. As a whole, Hispanic parents tend to protect their young from both of these debilitating influences. Children who reach puberty and menarche early have adult sexual feelings they don't understand, which then leads to increased teen pregnancy and venereal disease. There is also a greatly increased risk of reproductive cancers, including breast cancer.4
When an infant is raised with natural feeding, plenty of body contact and a high level of affectionate response, strong attachment bonds are developed.5 According to attachment researchers, the consequences of this parenting style are fewer behavior problems and mental disorders, less social misconduct, a greater ability to form lasting adult relationships, and improved overall health.6 In contrast, when nursing is withheld from a baby and there is maternal separation during much of the day and night, high levels of the stress hormone cortisol are produced.7 This leads to permanently altered brain function, hormonal imbalance and reduced immune functioning, as well as increased mental and behavior problems and a decreased ability to deal with stress throughout life.8,9,10,11
Click on the link to read more :D..interesting stuff!
reAllytee
06-03-2006, 23:35
Ok for one this is great dont get me wrong but this is in the U.S they use horrible stuff on their cows over there :eek:
We DONT :thumbsup:
Well at least not yet !
So it is slightly different !
Freddyboy
06-03-2006, 23:36
Yes, I do believe it has something to do with how western society percieves 'boobs' but these children are growing up in western society and are going to sexualise boobs just like the rest of us at some stage in their lives.
Isn't it sad that we think that our children have to at some stage in their lives sexualise breasts?
I mean do they have to? Can't we teach them to not think this way, not allow them to be led like sheep, control the situation as parents?
I think that our job as parents is to guide and teach and not to just follow blindly along with what society is doing........
I know that my children won't/don't perceive breasts/women as they are potrayed today...
Hmmm I still share a breastfeeding relationship with my daughter who is 3.5 years old.. so I suppose when she turns 4 in July someone had better call family services then hey ;)
She always instigates feeds. I dont ask her for them , nor do I refuse. As she has gotten older she has naturally decreased the amount of feeding that she does from the breast and that suits us both just fine.. she also doesn't comfort suck. This evening she asked for a feed because she said she was hungry and the milk taste yummy.
So obviously I am a lactivist :D And to be honest I feel slightly concerned that somehow you think I must be a pervert due to the feeding relationship I share with my daughter. I believe in child led weaning, and see that it naturally diminishes over time and at their own pace. My child is incredibly confident, social and happy. She just doesn't happen to think my boobs are just for males :rolleyes: and that it is a sexual act.. anyone feeding a toddler will tell you it isn't.
I can't really comment on feeding a nine year old. I do have to admit that I would feel a bit uncomfortable with that myself, and it is mostly from the stigma that they would recieve from other children. My daughter tells her friends that she still feeds (non breastfed children) and they dont appear to bat an eyelid at it at the moment.
So that is my perspective.. make of it what you will.
reAllytee
06-03-2006, 23:46
Hmmm I still share a breastfeeding relationship with my daughter who is 3.5 years old.. so I suppose when she turns 4 in July someone had better call family services then hey ;)
She always instigates feeds. I dont ask her for them , nor do I refuse. As she has gotten older she has naturally decreased the amount of feeding that she does from the breast and that suits us both just fine.. she also doesn't comfort suck. This evening she asked for a feed because she said she was hungry and the milk taste yummy.
So obviously I am a lactivist :D And to be honest I feel slightly concerned that somehow you think I must be a pervert due to the feeding relationship I share with my daughter. I believe in child led weaning, and see that it naturally diminishes over time and at their own pace. My child is incredibly confident, social and happy. She just doesn't happen to think my boobs are just for males :rolleyes: and that it is a sexual act.. anyone feeding a toddler will tell you it isn't.
I can't really comment on feeding a nine year old. I do have to admit that I would feel a bit uncomfortable with that myself, and it is mostly from the stigma that they would recieve from other children. My daughter tells her friends that she still feeds (non breastfed children) and they dont appear to bat an eyelid at it at the moment.
So that is my perspective.. make of it what you will.
Well i doubt any of us have a problem with a 4yr old feeding because i certainly dont. My main issue is a child of 8yrs being fed when puberty is hitting.
reAllytee
06-03-2006, 23:48
Isn't it sad that we think that our children have to at some stage in their lives sexualise breasts?
I mean do they have to? Can't we teach them to not think this way, not allow them to be led like sheep, control the situation as parents?
I think that our job as parents is to guide and teach and not to just follow blindly along with what society is doing........
I know that my children won't/don't perceive breasts/women as they are potrayed today...
Sorry to say but i led a very sheltered christian upbringing as a child & I was the one at 8yrs asking what sex was etc.
So i was in a controlled situation by my parents but when i asked they answered my questions & thats when i then learnt not by society.
Sorry but you may want your child to percieve things a certain way but there may come a time when all that changes as you cant control them that much.
I can see how you would feel that way.. but others did express their disgust. But please don't get me wrong I am not someone who is typically constrained by what others do or do not think of me :)
I do think though that it does become difficult to judge a family by what is written in a trashy women's mag.. I mean they are hardly reknowned for their journalistic integrity.. what was portrayed may have been vastly different from the actual situation.
Unfortunately we are living in a society that says women's bodies are commodities and are only really valued as sexual objects. I have no idea what family ethics this reported ones share. I know of one family who have a father that hits his children for seeing their mother naked or in her undies if they happen to walk into the bathroom as this is filthy and he thinks it is abuse for his children to be around their mother when she is only in undies and a bra.. go figure.. the benchmarks vary widely for people.
Mamaduke
06-03-2006, 23:57
Isn't it sad that we think that our children have to at some stage in their lives sexualise breasts?
I mean do they have to? Can't we teach them to not think this way, not allow them to be led like sheep, control the situation as parents?
I think that our job as parents is to guide and teach and not to just follow blindly along with what society is doing........
I know that my children won't/don't perceive breasts/women as they are potrayed today...
Well freddyboy...be prepared to invest in a very large bubble...because for hundreds of years women's breasts have been sexualised...I don't think a revolution in that way of thinking is coming any time soon....:rolleyes:
We don't need to create a large bubble.. we simply need to ask our children if what they see and hear is right.. how do they feel about these things. Create a dialogue with them about issues that sees them challenge stuff rather than accepting a carbon copy of what everyone else says and does.. may prove to be a hell of a teenage couple of years, but ultimately worthwhile to have a freethinking and independent adult in the end.. then perhaps that radical feminist utopia will happen :thumbsup:
Mummabear
07-03-2006, 00:04
Isn't it sad that we think that our children have to at some stage in their lives sexualise breasts?
I mean do they have to? Can't we teach them to not think this way, not allow them to be led like sheep, control the situation as parents?
I think that our job as parents is to guide and teach and not to just follow blindly along with what society is doing........
I know that my children won't/don't perceive breasts/women as they are potrayed today...
Sorry, I'm just a realist. I don't see the point in trying to wrap my children in cotton wool and place them in a bubble. Rather accept that this is how society is going to unfold around them and give them the skills to think independantly and critically. My children are going to grow up in western culture, therefore they are going to sexualise boobs at some point, better that I realise this and prepare them for it.
SassyMummy
07-03-2006, 00:10
When I was pregnant, I decided that as soon as my child could walk, and actually LOOKED like a little person, rather than a baby, then she would be off the boob. It just freaked me out, in all honesty.
That being said, she only breastfed for 3 weeks anyway because it didn't work out well for us...so I don't actually KNOW how it would have gone. I don't believe it would have lasted very long though...I didn't enjoy it at all...it hurt and stung and I always dreaded doing it.
I guess breastfeeding is a personal issue, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to be a bit repulsed by a mother breastfeeding a child that is old enough to walk, talk and nearly start school/kindergarten. Perhaps it IS healthier than drinking cows milks nowdays...but it still grosses me out.
As for womens breasts being sexualized...I have no problem with it. I love my boobs (well...not so much now that I've had a baby...lol) and I am quite happy for them to seen as sexual devises...even by perverted men. It makes me feel good when people look at them (clothed, of course).
I think men will always see women as sexual objects because, IMO, their natural instincts are to have sex with us. It's only natural that parts of our anatomy are sexually appealing to them. Fine with me. I find parts of men sexy...like muscular backs, toned arms, and chiselled jawlines. Typically masculine features.
When my daughter is older, if she feels sexy because of her breasts...then good for her. I just won't let her flaunt them until she's 18!:D
LOL, yeah I think about that all the time and it DOES gross me out! COws milk is for baby cows :rolleyes: I'd rather drink breastmilk!:D
SOrry, off topic.....
Don't be alarmed if i take a raincheck for a cuppa coffee at your place lol :D
reAllytee
07-03-2006, 00:22
LOL JenNT !!!!!!!!!!!!!
mummycloud
07-03-2006, 00:26
In some cultures grandmothers and other friends and relatives dry nurse children to comfort them. If a child feels scared or upset when Mum isn't around the suckling makes them feel safe and at home. They aren't getting nutrients obviously, but I assure they aren't doing it for sexual purposes either.
When I see my mother breasts, I don't think of them as sexual things I see them as the things that comforted me as a child. I see them as those comfy pillows that I rested my head on as a 9 year old when snuggeling up to her on the couch. I didn't suckle at that age, but they still served a purpose for me.
Breasts are NOT put there for sexual purposes. When touched and fondeled and sucked, they produce hormones that contract the uterus. They produce milk after having a baby and continue to do so until we stop feeding even if it's 20 years. Women in Africa don't bother covering them up because the children (be there own or someone elses) need easy access to them. Heck they even breast feed live stock when they need to.
there's a clitorus there to make conception pleasurable. Do you see cats and dogs go for the breasts or the FUZZ when they're randy?
Anyway, I'm rambeling now :laughing: I could go on, but you will no doubt challenge everything I have pointed out anyway :rolleyes:
mummycloud
07-03-2006, 00:40
Oh bugger, I was shaping up getting ready for the fight :laughing:
Looks like a killed the thread instead :p
reAllytee
07-03-2006, 00:41
Well you could also go as far to say as why do we bother covering up at all if we over sexualise everything.
Blah im not getting out what i want to say. :confused:
Ok im going to bed now
Ana Gram
07-03-2006, 00:43
Actually people, from a scientific point of view you could pull up a ton of theories on breasts. One of the most common of these is that breasts do play an important part in procreation but not just in feeding.
Humans are the only animal to have the kind of breasts we do, size wise. It really stems from the evolutionary branch of the great apes and monkeys. Most other species have ways of telling when their females have reached sexual maturity and are ready to mate, I'm sure we have all snickered and made jokes about the baboons at the zoo. Their big, red, shiney butts have a mating purpose as do our breasts. They tell us when the female has is either nearing or has reached sexual maturity, can mate and are used to attract males.
mummycloud
07-03-2006, 00:43
Well you could also go as far to say as why do we bother covering up at all if we over sexualise everything.
Blah im not getting out what i want to say. :confused:
Ok im going to bed now
Gotta cover up the FUZZ that IS there for the old in out in out ;)
reAllytee
07-03-2006, 00:44
Gotta cover up the FUZZ that IS there for the old in out in out ;)
LOL !
Troublemaker :p :p :p
mummycloud
07-03-2006, 00:46
Actually people, from a scientific point of view you could pull up a ton of theories on breasts. One of the most common of these is that breasts do play an important part in procreation but not just in feeding.
Humans are the only animal to have the kind of breasts we do, size wise. It really stems from the evolutionary branch of the great apes and monkeys. Most other species have ways of telling when their females have reached sexual maturity and are ready to mate, I'm sure we have all snickered and made jokes about the baboons at the zoo. Their big, red, shiney butts have a mating purpose as do our breasts. They tell us when the female has is either nearing or has reached sexual maturity, can mate and are used to attract males.
True, you can tell a girls age by the shape and size of her breasts, but doesn't mean that they're there for the grope, the monkeys may know they're ready for plucking, but they're gonna pluck the hoohaa not the boobs :D
mummycloud
07-03-2006, 00:49
LOL !
Troublemaker :p :p :p
Gotta convince myself of what I'm saying cause the thought of my mother's breasts as anything sexual is creeping me out :laughing:
Ana Gram
07-03-2006, 00:52
True, you can tell a girls age by the shape and size of her breasts, but doesn't mean that they're there for the grope, the monkeys may know they're ready for plucking, but they're gonna pluck the hoohaa not the boobs :D
It might be because it is late but what??
mummycloud
07-03-2006, 00:58
Just saying that breasts may serve a purpose of more than feeding, like showing physical maturity in monkeys so the males know they are ready to mate, but that doesn't mean that the male sucks on them or even touches them in a sexual way. They still just go for genitals.
It's not that it's late, I'm just a tosser :o
Ana Gram
07-03-2006, 01:01
I'll have to go over my post again, but monkeys don't have breasts. Humans are the only ones who have breasts which is why they do play a larger role than just feeding.
mummycloud
07-03-2006, 01:06
I'll have to go over my post again, but monkeys don't have breasts. Humans are the only ones who have breasts which is why they do play a larger role than just feeding.
Oh :laughing: that's right red bums :o but I have seen gorillas and other types of Ape's with breast :confused:
Ana Gram
07-03-2006, 01:15
not the same way we have breasts. They have breast tissue and milk ducts but then so do the males of our species. You will find that the apes who appear to have breasts like ours are mothers who are feeding and have fed their babies. Unfortunately for the rest of the ape family, we humans are also the only ones to wear bras so there is an unfortunate side effects that breastfeeding can cause and that is alot of sagging! So once there is no more milk, they do get the sock effect.
The major difference is thay human females develop breasts without having a child.
Pippi Longstocking
07-03-2006, 06:28
I agree with Freddyboy.:smiliedance: Western society has sexualised breasts to the point of us finding a mother feeding her child to be sexual abuse! I pondered this while breastfeeding my own child - I don't find it arrousing or sexual in any way and the only thing that makes me feel dirty is that other people can perceive it as sexual. So I think that people who do find breastfeeding a child to be gross and revolting and abusive etc are the ones with the issues and sexual hangups rather than the nursing mother.
I fully intend to keep feeding my daughter until she is willing to wean. I intend on doing this because I know that I will be giving her the best possible start to life, not so that I can feel the sensation of having someone suckling my breast! :eek:
For those people that may have an issue with me feeding my baby when she is 2, 3, 4 or 5 etc, I suggest counselling. You clearly have issues and Freud would have a field day finding correlations between your disgust at breastfeeding and your relationship with your mother. Oh, did I just turn the tables? Oops! ;)
I am wondering if in the case of the 9 year old it would constitute abuse of some form?
Does anyone know if it would?
UMMMM NO!:rolleyes:
Seriously, sexual abuse is such a serious thing, a horrific thing. Imagine being accused of sexually absuing your own children when you arent:( Imagine going throught that as a parent. Why is it ok for us to sit here and accuse someone we dont even know of abusing their kids that they probably love just like we love our kids?
Totally agree with this quote!;) :yelclap:
nemosmum
07-03-2006, 07:30
For all the mothers who are going to let their child/ren self wean- what happens when your 23 year old still wants some of mummies yummy milk????? (like in the story posted earlier)
Where do you draw the line and say enough is enough?
If not at age 5, then at age 10? perhaps 15?
Is there a difference between feeding a nine year old girl or a nine year old boy?
If your son doesnt self wean at age 15 will you be worried?
Just curious as alot of people are saying its western society that puts the idea bfing a 9 yr old is wrong when in actual fact I believe its our own personal moral compass that has alot to do with it.
For all the mothers who are going to let their child/ren self wean- what happens when your 23 year old still wants some of mummies yummy milk????? (like in the story posted earlier)
Nemosmum
someone posted before about a show they were watching that apparantly the child at aged 8 lost their sucking reflex. I dare say that perhaps this would be the case for all children when they reach a certain age!;)
Ffrenchknickers
07-03-2006, 07:42
Don't be alarmed if i take a raincheck for a cuppa coffee at your place lol
LOL, yes, you have a choice of rice milk, oat, soy or breast:D
Oh, and good to see you Marianna!:thumbsup:
nemosmum
07-03-2006, 07:42
oh so they have done studies that show a child loses their sucking reflex at age 8?
just wondering coz as I understood it the child self weaned at 8 and they assumed this was because she had lost her sucking reflex, am I wrong?
So 8 is the cut off?
I might just be making assumptions here but I would say it would be rather uncommon for a child to still be breastfeeding at 8. Most children would self wean long before this.
oh so they have done studies that show a child loses their sucking reflex at age 8?
just wondering coz as I understood it the child self weaned at 8 and they assumed this was because she had lost her sucking reflex, am I wrong?
So 8 is the cut off?
Perhaps you didn't read my post properly! I said their was a person watching a show on television, okay the child on that show was I think aged 8, and this is when that child lost their sucking reflex, I am not saying that all children lose the sucking reflex at aged 8 just that that child did! So my guess is that in a child's development that they will reach an age where they too will loose their sucking reflex!;)
Like Nemo said above a 23yr old was still suckling her mother:eek:
She did not seem to lose her sucking reflex at 8:confused:
Like Nemo said above a 23yr old was still suckling her mother:eek:
She did not seem to lose her sucking reflex at 8:confused:
Nemo edited her post! But she was saying what if a 23 year old still wanted to nurse!
It wasn't a real person she was mentioning just a fictional 23 year old!;)
Im sorry that you cant see what we are talking about but maybe you help with causing a "problem" by making such a post ?
Oh & btw i do worry about these kids & what they shall grow up thinking !
My cousins ex still suckled with her mother at 23yrs & its probably still ongoing for all i know !
So yes i do think it could lead to somthing more dangerous especially as this girl didnt think anything of it even to the point where she refused to go on her honeymoon with her husband because she couldnt be away from Mummy !!! Everyone thought they had a close bond but no one guessed that until they were walked in on :eek:
There is a difference from a child suckling her mothers breast as a young child but as of 8yrs as Ally84 pointed out most kids today are going through puberty so im sorry there are hormones involved so for me thats just wrong.
No it is a real person
Ah that is where you confused me! I thought you said Nemosmum posted that!
No worries:)
From Allyoo's post you can see how some people would wonder when and if this mother will stop as it is clear not all children seem to self wean.
nemosmum
07-03-2006, 08:10
Oscars mum I didnt mean to make you look silly as I didnt edit my post (I dont think I did any way lol) I think I posted again in reply to your post. let me check and see what I did lol:D
nemosmum
07-03-2006, 08:12
Just checked and no I didnt edit my post I posted again, so you dont look silly in any case, your just having an opinon, which is what Im doing too:smiliedance:
Oscars mum I didnt mean to make you look silly as I didnt edit my post (I dont think I did any way lol) I think I posted again in reply to your post. let me check and see what I did lol:D
lol who knows, who cares! Everyone to their own I guess! I kind of have to wonder though if their are 9 year old out their still drinking formula though, now that wouldn't suprise me! Would that be wrong!
nemosmum
07-03-2006, 08:16
In original post way back on page two I think:) I said that if she is bfing for nutritional value then why not express it into a cup and have them drink it that way.
My objection is to the actual act it self not that the child is still drinking breast milk iykwim:)
Oh and if a child was still drinking formula from a bottle I would be pretty worried too, for different reasons (health reasons such as tooth decay etc) and yes this would still be an issue as in my opinon that would be neglect on the part of the parent.
Oh and if a child was still drinking formula from a bottle I would be pretty worried too, for different reasons (health reasons such as tooth decay etc) and yes this would still be an issue as in my opinon that would be neglect on the part of the parent.
Yeah I would be concerned too, curious though at what age would you think it is innapropriate to bottle feed?
nemosmum
07-03-2006, 08:26
ok Ill bite:D
I personally think a bottle should stop around 2 years old as in my opinon its not necessary.
How about you O'smum what age would you consider the bottle inappropriate?:)
Freddyboy
07-03-2006, 08:35
As for womens breasts being sexualized...I have no problem with it. I love my boobs (well...not so much now that I've had a baby...lol) and I am quite happy for them to seen as sexual devises...even by perverted men. It makes me feel good when people look at them (clothed, of course).
When my daughter is older, if she feels sexy because of her breasts...then good for her. I just won't let her flaunt them until she's 18!:D
See I see this above quote as weird and strange (no offence intended). Why would you be happy for yourself/your breasts to be seen as a sexual device...aren't you more than that?
Do you really want your daughter to grow up to be looked at by perverted men, to be only treated a certain way due to her breasts and her the sexuality that she flaunts?
I certainly don't want my daughter to be seen as such and if it is made to sound like the below quote, that I am keeping my children in a 'bubble' then I think that perhaps you need to stop and think about it.
Sorry, I'm just a realist. I don't see the point in trying to wrap my children in cotton wool and place them in a bubble. Rather accept that this is how society is going to unfold around them and give them the skills to think independantly and critically. My children are going to grow up in western culture, therefore they are going to sexualise boobs at some point, better that I realise this and prepare them for it.
Because your children are going to grow up in western society they basically have to accept that children and women are sexualised, so in reality we should start teaching them that this is what it is all about?
Should we also teach them about violence as children are exposed to it at an early age through television?
I am not saying that my children won't know about societies so called 'norms' but my children will know that socieites choices are not the only ones, that just because this is how society perceives things and accepts things it does not make it right!
Its a sad day when we have to accept that our children will at some stage sexualise breasts. Why is it so wrong to teach them that this is not the normal way?
Isn't it a more healthy approach to teach them what breasts are about rather than say - ' oh yep those are boobs, now just accept the fact that they are there for sexual pleasure, for perverted men to look at and to be flaunted on magazines, at strip joints oh and for porn...so accept it okay because that is how society tells us it is'.
Can't you see that your attitudes on everything affect how our children see things, you set the mind set of our future generation. If you think that you have to accept this perceived image then of course your children will too and that is why society will never change its outlook on it all.
It has to start somewhere, so why not instead of just accepting societies 'norms' start making a difference.
Well freddyboy...be prepared to invest in a very large bubble...because for hundreds of years women's breasts have been sexualised...I don't think a revolution in that way of thinking is coming any time soon....:rolleyes:
Like I mentioned above, we as parents are the ones who can make a difference.
How come other societies can look at the breasts in a non sexual manner? Think of all those coutries where women and their breasts are treated as normal, where the women don't 'cover up'. Once again it is our society and its stupid ideals that get in the way.
We think nothing of seeing a magazine stand with a poster of a woman wearing almost nothing, but breastfeed in public and accidently flash a bit of boob and you can get in trouble. Breastfeed in restaurant and get asked to leave because it may upset patrons.
Not right is it?
It's all about society and their messed up views of the female body. Its because it is sexualised that people react the way they do to people breastfeeding.
They don't think normally. They think ' my god that baby/toodler/child is sucking at a breast how perverted!!!' instead of thinking 'wow look at that that baby/toddler/child is doing a most wonderful thing, at its mothers breast, how natural'.
Which one would you want your child to think?
Mummy cloud......great post! I think we are thinking on the same wavelength.
In some cultures grandmothers and other friends and relatives dry nurse children to comfort them. If a child feels scared or upset when Mum isn't around the suckling makes them feel safe and at home. They aren't getting nutrients obviously, but I assure they aren't doing it for sexual purposes either.
When I see my mother breasts, I don't think of them as sexual things I see them as the things that comforted me as a child. I see them as those comfy pillows that I rested my head on as a 9 year old when snuggeling up to her on the couch. I didn't suckle at that age, but they still served a purpose for me.
Breasts are NOT put there for sexual purposes. When touched and fondeled and sucked, they produce hormones that contract the uterus. They produce milk after having a baby and continue to do so until we stop feeding even if it's 20 years. Women in Africa don't bother covering them up because the children (be there own or someone elses) need easy access to them. Heck they even breast feed live stock when they need to.
there's a clitorus there to make conception pleasurable. Do you see cats and dogs go for the breasts or the FUZZ when they're randy?
Anyway, I'm rambeling now :laughing: I could go on, but you will no doubt challenge everything I have pointed out anyway :rolleyes:
Good Morning...Ok I have just read all the posts (took about 30 minutes!!) and am not going to offer an opinion on the BF topic at all.......:o
what I want is to go back to Allyoo - What was the deal there with your cousins wife??!! :eek: Do you know what she said about being 'found out'?? How did your cousin react (I noticed you said 'ex' wife, so he obviously still doesnt have to deal with it). Were there 'other' issues in her life/the way she came across as to making you believe she had a 'different than the norm' relationship with her mum??
Ok..I will offer an opinion (i just cant help myself :D ) ....23 year olds suckling is TOO weird. :eek:
nemosmum
07-03-2006, 08:54
Ok..I will offer an opinion (i just cant help myself ) ....23 year olds suckling is TOO weird.
:laughing: hahahahahahahaha:D :laughing: :p
This has been a really interesting thread. I am just concerned that the mother is trying to baby the 9 yo and if this is the case it could well be smothering behaviour. I feel there are plenty of other ways to bond and comfort a child of that age than breastfeeding. Sorry I know I will be shot down but it is strange to be feeding a child that in some cases is almost the same size as the mother!
Without knowing all the circumstances, on the surface it seems that the mother can't let go of her babies. At age 9 I will be guiding my children in becoming well adjusted happy adults not trying to hang onto their babyhood.
Breastfeeding a 23yo, is just beyond the pale. Very very strange and sick even:eek:
moonblossom
07-03-2006, 09:14
I am a big avocate of breastfeeding...BUT OH COME ON..
the_queen
07-03-2006, 09:20
I don't think it is physically possible to FORCE any child to breastfeed (heck, it can't be done with a tiny bubba, how could you force a 9 yr old??). So it just sounds to me like a case of extended breastfeeding, where the mother is doing "Child Led Weaning" and the child is happy and comfortable to keep feeding. Why does the age matter?
Pippi Longstocking
07-03-2006, 09:48
From http://www.lalecheleague.org/Law/BAFeb01.html...
Unfortunetely, it is an American link but still provides some good information.
Social service agencies have looked at the issue of extended breastfeeding numerous times over the past ten years, but not one social service agency has upheld any finding that extended breastfeeding constitutes abuse or neglect, or is in any way harmful to the child.
Mothers who allow their child to wean naturally are being responsive to the child ’s need. Contrary to the suspicions of those in our society who view breastfeeding as somehow being a sexual act, mothers who nurse older children are not satisfying pathological needs of their own.
Breastfeeding experts do not advocate a specific age for weaning, as this is a personal decision for each mother and child. Authorities do suggest that it is best to let children wean naturally. For instance, the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that all babies be breastfed for at least one year, or as long as mutually desirable.3 In support of this recommendation, the AAP ’s statement cites a study that discusses the age of weaning among American women who practice extended breastfeeding. Weaning ages in the study extend through age 6.4
It is ironic that our society does not seem to object to children sucking their fingers, pacifiers, or bottles past infancy, but many are outraged when a child who can walk and talk is still breastfeeding. Because our culture tends to view the breast as sexual, it can be hard for people to realize that breastfeeding is the natural way to nurture children.
I just find it so offensive that others can find feeding a child to be dirty/gross/sexual. :eek: . Whether 9 weeks, 9 months or 9 years, all she is doing is breastfeeding and she is more than likely doing it because she feels that that is the best thing for her child, not for herself.
Wow, this has been an interesting thread to read! I have to admit that while I don't think I'd like to be still breastfeeding a 9yo, I have been quite taken aback by some of the comments of sexual abuse and perversion.
Even though everyone here says that they have no problem with breastfeeding (or even extended breastfeeding) the fact remains that our breastfeeding rates in this country are abysmal and I think we all know that it is largely to do with the fact that we have come to see breasts as sexual objects rather than for their true purpose which is to feed and nurture children. It's for that very reason that people aren't comfortable to feed in public or that husbands have issues with their partner breastfeeding or that mums just don't like doing it.
Somehow, growing a baby in your belly is a natural physiological process and we are happy to endure that with all its physical and emotional challenges, yet breastfeeding which is the natural extension of that nurturing of our young is seen as optional or at best, a short-term proposition.
I'm not trying to start a breastfeeding debate but just to reinforce Freddyboy's point that it is our society's perception of the role of breasts that probably needs to be challenged if we are to ever improve the rate of breastfeeding and have it become more accepted in our culture. I think when people have very fixed and extreme attitudes about something like this, it's usually a good indication that it's time to step back and have a think about where those attitudes come from and whether they are serving us, either as individuals or as a community.
We don't have to bf our kids until they are in high school, but maybe if we let go of the idea that breastfeeding beyond a certain age is perverted, we might have more kids being bf until they are 2, as recommended by the WHO. :thumbsup:
Ffrenchknickers
07-03-2006, 09:58
I hope what you said here doesnt start another debate LOL:o BUt its exactly how I feel:) Couldnt agree more:smiliedance:
We don't have to bf our kids until they are in high school, but maybe if we let go of the idea that breastfeeding beyond a certain age is perverted, we might have more kids being bf until they are 2, as recommended by the WHO.
I just find it so offensive that others can find feeding a child to be dirty/gross/sexual. :eek: . Whether 9 weeks, 9 months or 9 years, all she is doing is breastfeeding and she is more than likely doing it because she feels that that is the best thing for her child, not for herself.
Great quotes thanks for that!;) I also couldn't agree more with you!
Ffrenchknickers
07-03-2006, 10:04
Hey Amanda *waves*!!:hugs:
Freddyboy
07-03-2006, 10:16
This link provides some great insight into why breasts are perceived as they are - http://www.007b.com/breast_obsession.php
Below is a quote from the site -
The less women breastfeed, the less people get to see the real purpose of breasts. At the same time media everywhere touts the view of female breasts as sexual. That in turn makes it harder for women to breastfeed, since many of the reasons for not breastfeeding (http://www.007b.com/early_weaning.php#reasons_not_breastfeeding) are linked to the idea that woman's breasts are sexual organs.
So the less women breastfeed, the harder it becomes for women to breastfeed. We have a cycle that self-promotes the view that the main purpose of female breasts is for something else than feeding babies!
The cure?
First, let children be breastfed.
Then, let older children and teenagers see breastfeeding moms and their babies.
Let them learn about breasts and breastfeeding. Let them see breasts used for their purpose.
Don't make it a taboo, a forbidden no-no.
Just wanted to clear up a fact about the sucking reflex -it actually disappears at around 3months!!!
When child continues to suck after that - whether on a nipple, bottle or whatever if the parent is saying it's because of the reflex (as with the example of the 8year old) then they have a child that is developmentally delayed. We can all suck as an adult - who doesn't (or can't) suck a drink up a straw? I think the quote that was used earlier was a justification for the parent.
I also have a question about the girls v boys argument. My DSS is 10 now and I know that a year ago, he was talking sexually - those preadolescent horomones had started to move in. If it's not a sexual thing - why would it be okay for a daughter and not a son - I can't picture any normal 9year old boy (or girl) thinking it was not funny or weird.
I personally wouldn't breast feed that long - I would question the health benefits (I know I look after myself better when feeding - food drink vitamin wise, but would find it tiresome to keep up for 10years). A child of that age would be eating and drinking so much else - how much would the 100/200mL a day that they might get of breastmilk contribute to their overall health? As someone else has said - more of their immunity would be from illnesses at this stage.
I believe breastfeeding past a certain point is more for the mother than the child. I want my children (whether at 6 or older) to be able to get their emotional support from cuddles and talks rather than comfort sucking. I also want them by that age to be able to start being able to identify what foods are healthy themselves and not rely on a "health drink".
Pippi Longstocking
07-03-2006, 11:07
Look what I found....
http://www.shazzie.com/raw/articles/extraordinarybreastfeeding.shtml
It is a link where Veronika, the mother we are all discussing, gives her side of the story.
Imogensmum
07-03-2006, 11:13
In some cultures grandmothers and other friends and relatives dry nurse children to comfort them. If a child feels scared or upset when Mum isn't around the suckling makes them feel safe and at home. They aren't getting nutrients obviously, but I assure they aren't doing it for sexual purposes either.
So if the childcare worker at your childs centre suddenly lifted her top and latched your child onto her breast you wouldn't be offended and upset.
I know I would and i would be having her up on charges so quickly it wouldn't be funny!!!
It may be my "western" ways that dictate this but that is the world i live in- i do believe breast is best for the first two years if you can and want to feed do this- but i also think formula is a fine substitute for those who need/ want to follow this path ( my daughter has been on formula since 5.5mths)
but.....
I also stand by the fact that once a child is old enough to get there nutrients through food sources and drinking from a cup then this should be practiced. Even the breast feeding society only really push feeding until 2 years for health benefits...
It is not just breast feeding- bottles also- i think by 2-3years there is no need for a child to have a bottle. It is unnessesary and it is a habit not a need!
Thanks for the link ******
I still stand by the fact that children do not self-wean due to losing their sucking reflex. As I said - the sucking reflex is a primitive infantile reflex which moves on disappears at about 3 months. If it was the case -then we would all wean by 4-6months. If your primitive reflexes do not disappear, then there is some developmental issues going on.
Great link, ******. Very interesting to see the whole thing from the mother's perspective and also to see how the media has chosen to portray her situation. It's quite infuriating really, that the the people who write the magazine articles just perpetuate this idea that it is a bunch of fruitcakes who engage in these 'perverted' behaviours.
Freddyboy
07-03-2006, 11:49
Thanks for the link ******! From that link I found her blog which has an interesting bit about her appearance on the Trisha Goodard show......the blog just goes to show how the media twists things!
http://veronikarobinson.blogspot.com/2006/02/trashy-trisha-goddard-show.html
Last week, the assistant producer of The Trisha Goddard Show, Grant, phoned me to ask about going on their show to talk about breastfeeding, specifically “extended breastfeeding”..................................
So, just before the show were another two major shocks to my system. One was that, after being told Holly, Tish, Paul and I would be on stage to talk about extended breastfeeding, we were informed that they’d *developed* the show and only Tish would be on stage. Holly and I were to be ‘planted’ in the audience and instead they were having two ‘glamour’ models who had never breastfed (NOT easy with plastic tits) to give their point of view…oh, and one glamour model who had breastfed (for 3 months).
Michael's mummy
07-03-2006, 11:51
I breast fed my daughter for 1.5 yrs. I then weaned her. I do not think she was ready. She would often try and touch my boob. It was really annoying. She continued it until my son was born last year. She is also 9. When she seen me bF him she thought it was gross and no longer wanted to grope my boobs. Thank goodness. :thumbsup:
MilkOnTap
07-03-2006, 11:56
Anyway, I think the most icky thing was the 8yo and 9yo, who not only were still being breastfed, but also all sharing a room. And the girls also disliked their mother wearing a bra - they preferred her to free and 'accessible'... :eek: ..
8 and 9 years old... They should be learning table manners!
I just had a vivid image of an 8 and 9 year old girl sitting at the table on their first trip to a restaurant... I can see it now! They would taste their food and push it aside; then go on over to their mother, ripping up her top and taking a big mouthful of breast...
Okay - thats just gross...
MonkeyMum05
07-03-2006, 12:01
Not trying to wage a war here... but I have to reply to this!
Im all for extended bf, but once a child turns 4 i think it all becomes unnecessary, and any older than that is simply abuse.
My Aunty breastfed her daughter until she was at least 5.
What you posted implies that my Aunty abused her daughter, and I can guarantee you that that was not the case.
I believe she would be seriously hurt and offended to think that anyone would accuse her of that. And to tell you the truth, so am I.
I personally only plan on breastfeeding till my son is about 2, but if people choose to BF beyond the age that I do, then that is their choice. It has nothing to do with me, my beliefs, hang ups, judgements, etc...it's their choice, and I am in no position to judge that.
This thread seems to have become way out of line. Since when is breastfeeding any kind of dirty, or sexual act... for the mother or the child?
Pippi Longstocking
07-03-2006, 12:02
Actually Ally, I think you'll find that most breastfed older kids do so discretely in the privacy of their own homes. They more than likely do this as they no doubt don't want to hear people say "Okay - thats just gross...".;) :rolleyes:
MilkOnTap
07-03-2006, 12:07
Actually Ally, I think you'll find that most breastfed older kids do so discretely in the privacy of their own homes. They more than likely do this as they no doubt don't want to hear people say "Okay - thats just gross...".;) :rolleyes:
Hey I was just having a jive! I think I might keep my nose out of this thread!!!
Ouch! :thumbsdown:
Mamaduke
07-03-2006, 12:26
Hey I was just having a jive! I think I might keep my nose out of this thread!!!
Ouch! :thumbsdown:
poor ally! Don't you know you have to use these...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: when you're joking? Sometimes we all need to find a sense of humour!
I thought it was funny...a whole new meaning to BYO...I wonder if you'd get charged 'corkage'!!!!
:rolleyes: (<---take note!)
Tea Lady
07-03-2006, 12:35
Re: sexualisation of breasts....
I'm wondering how this impacts on cultures who find women's ankles / hair attractive. Do we have to go and tell them that they shouldn't? I personally have no problem with breasts being sexually attractive to men. All cultures have something they find physically attractive about women, and it kind of makes sense to me if it's something about reproduction.
I also don't think that if a man finds something physically attractive about a woman it necessarily means that's all he's interested in either (as implied by an earlier post). I think teaching kids that there are things that are physically attractive about the other sex but it's important to respect people that you find physically attractive (and not view them just as sex objects) is far more important than teaching them what bits they should / shouldn't find attractive.
the_queen
07-03-2006, 12:37
Great link ******!:thumbsup:
My favourite part was:
Firstly, let's get rid of the term extended breastfeeding, for it suggests that we are doing something beyond a normal or natural timescale. The appropriate words for describing a situation where a child is allowed to self-wean is called full term breastfeeding. This is regardless of whether a child weans at 2 years of age or later. From my perspective, the age is irrelevant. What is important is that the child is welcomed to the breast and that the relationship is mutually enjoyable for mother and child. Not all children would breastfeed beyond five or six years of age if allowed to self wean.
:D
There's lots and LOTS of mums who feed their kids until the age of 4ish. This one lady whose child happens to feed for much longer is definately an exception.
MilkOnTap
07-03-2006, 14:14
Okay - extended breastfeeding... (treading very carefully)
We have talked about the impact it may have on the child (both positive and negative, but what about the mother? Obviously emotionally she wouldn't continue doing it unless she liked it and agreed with it - but how about physically?
Are breasts designed to hold milk for longer than a 'standard' weaning age?
Does it put the mother at a greater risk of mastitis?
Could it have any long term damage on the breasts?
It appears that I have offended some people with my comments, and for that I apologise, I do not believe that anyone who may bf their child this long necessarily does so with the intention of sexually abusing their child, and I am sure they would be suitably horrified to discover that their are people like me who have the opinion that that is indeed what they are doing, nor do i think that they should be thrown in jail (well except for that weird couple where the whole family were regulary at the mothers breast) I do however think they need urgent counselling!!! but it doesnt mean that it still isnt abuse of some kind, you cant tell me that a child who is encouraged to bf for this long isnt going to end up with some real psychological issues. Anyway, again I am sorry, you need to bear in mind that this is my opinion only, and certainly not one that I regualr discuss or force on others, I only mentioned it because it was bought up!
I will try to gracefully exit now, but I just want to add that I think extended bf is great and natural, and that the sexualisation of womans breasts in our culture has sadly made a much bigger issue out of extended bf (and bf in general)than it needs to be,(it shouldnt be an issue at all) but i think a line needs to be drawn somewhere, and at 9 yrs old that line has definetly been drawn, I mean I have a 9 yr old son and sd, if i encouraged them to suckle at my breast ,surely i would be deemed a child abuser??
ThomasMum
07-03-2006, 14:30
Hi Ally, as far as I know I have never heard the damages for mothers caused by BF, infact its the opposite.
Breastfeeding contributes to the health and well-being of mothers, it helps to space children, reduces the risk of ovarian cancer and breast cancer, increases family and national resources, is a secure way of feeding and is safe for the environment.
Ref: World Health Organisation (http://www.who.int/child-adolescent-health/NUTRITION/infant_exclusive.htm)
poshBecks
07-03-2006, 15:03
Wow, what a debate... I think I'll stay out of it..... :o
Freddyboy
07-03-2006, 15:05
Are breasts designed to hold milk for longer than a 'standard' weaning age?
The breasts don't have time limits on them :) They can hold mik for as long as there is milk being made.
Think of mothers who have 4,5,6 9 babies...their breasts hold milk for years and years.
They are not like plastic breaking down with age...:laughing:
Does it put the mother at a greater risk of mastitis?
Mastitis is casued by the breast not being emptied correctly, due to incorrect attachment, poor drainage etc. Breastfeeding for longer would not increase the risk of mastitis.
Could it have any long term damage on the breasts?
No, it would have the opposite effect.
http://www.lalecheleague.org/Release/cancer.html
Schaumburg, IL (October 2002) A July study appearing in the prestigious medical journal Lancet found that the longer a woman breastfeeds the more protected she is against breast cancer.
http://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bfinfo/sustained.html
Sustained breastfeeding also provides many benefits to the mother including lower risk of anaemia, longer periods of lactational amenorrhea, reduced risk of osteoporosis and breast cancer, promotion of postpartum weight loss and sense of personal achievement.
Research by Sinigaglia et al (1996) found that women with a median lactation of 22 months were not significantly different in bone mineral density to other matched groups who had either lactated for a shorter time or not at all. Melton et al in 1993 studied a random sample of 304 white women in the United States. showed that breastfeeding beyond eight months was associated with greater bone mineral density in later life. Reduced risk for osteoporosis has also been found in other studies with even shorter durations of breastfeeding.
Studies from China and Japan have previously shown a reduced risk for breast cancer. More recently Zheng et al (2000) showed that prolonged breastfeeding significantly reduced breast cancer risk, especially for those with a total lactation duration greater than 72 months. This duration of lactation has not been studied in Western populations leading the authors to believe that this is the reason why such a strong protective effect has not been apparent in Western studies.
Mothers find-long term breastfeeding rewarding and natural. They enjoy the close bond that develops with their child; the main difficulty was being 'strong' in the face of negative reactions. These were the main themes that emerged from a prospective longitudinal study of 82 primiparas examining attitudes and reasons for long-term breastfeeding (Hills-Bonyczyket et al 1994).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12196882&query_hl=39&itool=pubmed_docsum
There is good evidence that the risk for premenopausal breast cancer is reduced with lactation (II-2A). This protective effect seems to be best for women who had extended periods of breastfeeding during their lifetime (ll-2B)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9610784&query_hl=39&itool=pubmed_docsum
Women who breastfed at least 16 months experienced a reduced odds of breast cancer relative to women who never breastfed (odds ratio, 0.73; 95% confidence interval, 0.52-1.01). Risk decreased as the number of children breastfed increased, but the association was attenuated after accounting for lifetime duration of breastfeeding. Breast cancer risk was 30% lower among women ages 20-24 years at first breastfeeding than women who had never breastfed (odds ratio, 0.69; 95% confidence interval, 0.54-0.88), independent of the effect of age at first birth. This study provides some evidence that the protective effect of breastfeeding persists into the postmenopausal years.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11065005&query_hl=39&itool=pubmed_docsum
RESULTS: Among parous women in this study (553 cases, 1094 age-matched population controls), having ever breastfed a child for at least 1 month did not confer protection (odds ratio of 0.9 and 95% confidence interval (CI) 0.8-1.2). However, risk of breast cancer significantly decreased with increasing duration of breastfeeding (p for trend = 0.01) and the estimated relative risk was 0.6 (95% CI 0.4-0.9) for 13-24 months of cumulative breastfeeding and 0.5 (95% CI 0.3-1.1) for 25 months or more. Risk was less related to number of children breastfed than to increasing average length of breastfeeding per child (p for trend = 0.03)...........The study results support a protective role of prolonged breastfeeding against the development of breast cancer in predominantly premenopausal women in Germany.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16025218&query_hl=58&itool=pubmed_docsum
Women lose 300 to 400 mg of calcium daily through breast milk, and this calcium demand is met by a 5-10% loss of skeletal mineral content during 6 months of exclusive lactation. Most importantly, the lost mineral is fully restored within a few months of weaning, such that women who have breastfed do not have a long-term deficit in skeletal mineral content.
ButterflyKisses
07-03-2006, 15:22
I find parts of men sexy...like muscular backs, toned arms, and chiselled jawlines. Typically masculine features. hey SassyMummy have you been eyeballing my hubbie again :laughing: :laughing:
Gee wonder where all the bubhub dad posters are? I would be interested in a Dad's point of view on this topic. Come on guys don't be scared:D
ButterflyKisses
07-03-2006, 15:35
I am a big avocate of breastfeeding...BUT OH COME ON..thank goodness Moonblossom you are still not breastfeeding all of your kids - struth you'd never get a minutes peace to yourself:laughing: :laughing: your kids would be all lined up like waiting in turn at a school tuckshop :laughing:
mummycloud
07-03-2006, 15:39
So if the childcare worker at your childs centre suddenly lifted her top and latched your child onto her breast you wouldn't be offended and upset.
I know I would and i would be having her up on charges so quickly it wouldn't be funny!!!
Well, actually in living in a country where that isn't the "norm" I WOULD be p***ed. I also mentioned that they feed livestock, doesn't mean I'm going to go and feed a pig :rolleyes:
The whole statement I made was just pointing out that in some culters they see breasts as something different than ours culture does. I'm not saying I would do any of the things they would and I wouldn't feed a 9 year old, but I don't think that people who do things differently are sexual perverts. I don't think 8 year old children should suck their thumbs either, but try and tell the child that when they've been comforting themselves that way since birth.
SassyMummy
11-03-2006, 00:24
You know what...I maintain my opinion that breastfeeding an older child is sickening. I find it disgusting and un-necessary, and I am just not going to change my mind on this one, no matter what other cultures do (some other cultures have been known to cannibalize...doesn't mean it's a good thing) or what the World Health Organisation says either (They might know an awful lot...but my opinion will forever remain my opinion).
Children are children, not babies. Babies need milk...children need to grow up. Not too fast of course...I'm not suggesting 9 year olds get jobs and earn a living or have babies of their own! I just think that children should be "coming into their own" and slowly growing more and more independent...not relying on their mothers milk supply.
As for the comments I have recieved about not caring about breasts being seen as sexual objects...I am in no way hoping my daughter becomes a breast-flashing trollop. I am simply okay with the fact that, as an adult, my breasts are viewed in such a way. Yes, I am more than that...my breasts are one small aspect of me...but so long as they ARE a part of me, I will use them to feel good about myself if need be. My brain and my humour are also great parts of me (as are my perfectly straight teeth!)...so I don't see why it's wrong of me to consider my breasts are great asset also. If they can do two things - feed a baby AND look hot...what's the problem?
Wow, I thought this thread had died!:p
CrazyBeautiful
11-03-2006, 08:45
Hmmmmmm, each to their own I guess, but........... I don't agree with it.
[QUOTE=SassyMummy]You know what...I maintain my opinion that breastfeeding an older child is sickening. I find it disgusting and un-necessary, and I am just not going to change my mind on this one, no matter what other cultures do (some other cultures have been known to cannibalize...doesn't mean it's a good thing) or what the World Health Organisation says either (They might know an awful lot...but my opinion will forever remain my opinion).
Children are children, not babies. Babies need milk...children need to grow up. Not too fast of course...I'm not suggesting 9 year olds get jobs and earn a living or have babies of their own! I just think that children should be "coming into their own" and slowly growing more and more independent...not relying on their mothers milk supply.
i agree with what you are saying. We actually went to mcdonalds over the northside one day ages ago and were sitting outside to eat our lunch with the kiddies and low and behold 2 kids i swear were 5 and 7 came running over to their mother and started sucking on her boobs, now sorry but that is just wrong and also made my DH and I sick needless to say we left without eating there and our kids asked why they were doing it all we said was the mother has problems and shouldnt be doing it (our kids were actually disgusted by her doing it before they asked ) i know i will cop some flack for this comment but ahwell each to their own. its a free country where we have our own opinions.
Goosie22
11-03-2006, 09:30
Luckily, women who choose to Beastfeed their children past the "socially acceptable" age (as this thread shows that age is very labile) dont give a flying fig about yours or my opinion for that matter.
They are parenting their children instinctively they alone know their child:hugs: .
"Bethany pretty much self-weaned at age five but on her ninth birthday her special birthday wish was a breastfeed.
Im sorry but if my daughter asked to suck my breast for her ninth birthday, i'd tell her to stop being so bloody gross
mummycloud
11-03-2006, 10:03
My 8 year old asked to have a taste yesterday. I said, your a bit old for that and she said, I just want a taste and frowned at me like I love her brother and sister more. I let her have a little taste and she said, yum, taste like cookies :laughing: then went and played the X-box.
If anyone accuses me of being a child molesteror because of that or says my daughter is "gross" for it then :shame: on them
I have to admit it sounds odd that a 9yo would ask to be breastfed, but really how many older kids ask to be picked up or otherwise treated like they were when they were much smaller? As kids get older, they miss being 'babied'. I know I did! And if part of that child's infant and toddler years was being breastfed, I don't see how her asking for that is any different from asking to be carried or tucked in or whatever favourite thing made her feel safe and loved when she was little.
My 8 year old asked to have a taste yesterday. I said, your a bit old for that and she said, I just want a taste and frowned at me like I love her brother and sister more. I let her have a little taste and she said, yum, taste like cookies :laughing: then went and played the X-box.
If anyone accuses me of being a child molesteror because of that or says my daughter is "gross" for it then :shame: on them
LOL - isn't that funny - she really just wanted to check out that she wasn't MISSING OUT - LOL
tastes like cookies??? what HAVE you been eating :laughing: you have one spoilt baby then :)
xxx
nemosmum
11-03-2006, 12:16
Why not offer it in a cup?????
I have asked that Q.before but no one seems to want to answer it????
If your child wanted a taste, why not give her a cupful of BM?
Just wondering :)
sopolicha
11-03-2006, 12:43
Why not offer it in a cup?????
I have asked that Q.before but no one seems to want to answer it????
If your child wanted a taste, why not give her a cupful of BM?
Just wondering :)
I think in mummycloud's case it was a bit of curiosity. I think if it came out of a cup the interest would fade fast. I don't think it is about the milk. Security and a feeling of closeness, or maybe just to be like her siblings.
The idea of breastfeeding my baby for any longer than after 2 years does not appeal to me at all. But I say whatever rings your bell or floats your boat. There are worse things going on out there.
I also don't think it is molestation or abuse. - how many 9 year olds or even 2 year olds for that matter do something on a regular basis that they don't want to?
I find the 23 year woman breastfeeding a bit of stretch. Bitty anyone?
The idea of breastfeeding my baby for any longer than after 2 years does not appeal to me at all. But I say whatever rings your bell or floats your boat. There are worse things going on out there.
I also don't think it is molestation or abuse. - how many 9 year olds or even 2 year olds for that matter do something on a regular basis that they don't want to?
I find the 23 year woman breastfeeding a bit of stretch. Bitty anyone?
Yep, totally agree.:thumbsup:
I also don't think it is molestation or abuse. - how many 9 year olds or even 2 year olds for that matter do something on a regular basis that they don't want to?
I dont think it constitutes abuse (I dont think i have used that word in any of my previous posts??) - but I personally find it a bit creepy ... but I guess everyone has different levels of 'creepy'
When I mentioned in passing to a friend that breastmilk tastes better then formula, she was shocked that I had even thought about trying it??!!( it was a drip that ran down the side of the bottle - expressed- and I chose to taste it rather then search for a cloth :rolleyes: ) - I had to carefully explain that to her (I can't even imagine the contorted position that she had me using in her brain - as if I could feed myself LOL :laughing: )
note- I think that there is a difference between curiousity and routine - please dont think that I called you creepy mummycloud - definately not my intention :hugs:
xx
nemosmum
11-03-2006, 12:51
[QUOTE=sopolicha]I also don't think it is molestation or abuse. - how many 9 year olds or even 2 year olds for that matter do something on a regular basis that they don't want to? QUOTE]
Sorry cant agree there, I am sure there are many 9yr olds and 2yr olds for that matter doing "things" they dont want to do. Do you think children WANT to be abused? if not then why are they? Because they have no control over the situation, they have no power either physically to say "no" of emotionally .
I am not saying Mummycloud or any one else is abusing their child BUT to say a 9 yr old wouldnt do something if they didnt want too, doesnt make sense to me.
AND just because a child wants to do something doesnt mean they should.
Bitty anyone?
LOL just reading this thread and was starting to wonder when "bitty" would appear :laughing:
sopolicha
11-03-2006, 13:15
[QUOTE=sopolicha]I also don't think it is molestation or abuse. - how many 9 year olds or even 2 year olds for that matter do something on a regular basis that they don't want to? QUOTE]
Sorry cant agree there, I am sure there are many 9yr olds and 2yr olds for that matter doing "things" they dont want to do. Do you think children WANT to be abused? if not then why are they? Because they have no control over the situation, they have no power either physically to say "no" of emotionally .
I am not saying Mummycloud or any one else is abusing their child BUT to say a 9 yr old wouldnt do something if they didnt want too, doesnt make sense to me.
AND just because a child wants to do something doesnt mean they should.
Okay, take a breath, my post was solely to be read in context of the the thread which is pertaining to breastfeeding older children not criminal acts such as the various forms of child abuse. There is a vast difference.
My point is, how on earth could you make any child suck on a boob if they didn't want to. I couldn't make my 10 month old do it, so how would you make an older child do it if they didn't want to.
When I mentioned in passing to a friend that breastmilk tastes better then formula, she was shocked that I had even thought about trying it??!!( it was a drip that ran down the side of the bottle - expressed- and I chose to taste it rather then search for a cloth :rolleyes: ) - I had to carefully explain that to her (I can't even imagine the contorted position that she had me using in her brain - as if I could feed myself LOL )
Sorry but I had to add.
I to tasted my breast milk,I just could not die wondering:laughing:
It is sweet.
I did not put my boob on my mouth:laughing: they are not big enough to get up there,I just tried a bit that rolled down my tummy.
Sorry just had to break the ice:hugs:
Okay, take a breath, my post was solely to be read in context of the the thread which is pertaining to breastfeeding older children not criminal acts such as the various forms of child abuse. There is a vast difference.
My point is, how on earth could you make any child suck on a boob if they didn't want to. I couldn't make my 10 month old do it, so how would you make an older child do it if they didn't want to.
nicely put :)
xxx
I had to carefully explain that to her (I can't even imagine the contorted position that she had me using in her brain - as if I could feed myself LOL :laughing: )
I have to say Veve, that is quite a visual! :eek: ;)
I wasnt going to write anything else here, but i will be always wishing i had if i dont.
I shouldnt have wrote what i did without careful consideration first, it was written impulsively in response to my visions of a 9 yr old bf, and my understanding of how my 9 yr old is, we are very open in our house about our bodies etc and certainly dont suffer from any 'hang ups' or focus on the breasts as some sort of sexual object, i love my children snuggling into my bosom, or my toddlers having a peek and a grab of the soft skin, its so cute !! but i can see him (my 9 yr old) becoming more aware of the world, of a womans body etc and i know he would find the offer to suckle at my breast deeply disturbing, hence my thoughts on the subject, I still stand by what i said, but i want to stress that i think it is a worst case scenario, i think at best a relationship where a child of 9 is still bf isnt healthy, just in the way i think a child of 8 or 9 who is still given a bottle or dummy or allowed to wear a nappy simply because they want to, or the parents think it is cute, is unhealthy, i recently dicovered that my almost 9 yr old dsd is still given a bottle after school, and this also disturbs me. (surely she can have it in a cup??)
I agree that 4 is not a magic cut off age, but surely around this time of 4 or 5 it is appropriate for a child to start entering the world of childhood and leaving babyhood behind? it is a normal part of development.
Well again, I apologise if I offended anyone with my rash comments, but I also wanted to add that i personally believe that womans breast can be both nurturing and be things of visual or sexual pleasure, as woman we are mothers, wives, lovers and daughters, if we can be many things, surely our breasts can manage it as well?
Tea Lady
11-03-2006, 15:01
Nicely said Erin :thumbsup:
Erin, I can't speak for anyone else but you certainly didn't offend me.
When I said people's comments re: sexual abuse were interesting, I meant exactly that... interesting! :) Seeing people's different perspectives on a topic like this one is fascinating and one of the things I enjoy most about Bubhub.
Why not offer it in a cup?????
I have asked that Q.before but no one seems to want to answer it????
If your child wanted a taste, why not give her a cupful of BM?
Just wondering :)
I have tried that but she said "thats gross mum"
nemosmum
11-03-2006, 18:00
Thanks for responding to me, much appreciated:)
mummycloud
11-03-2006, 22:38
Why not offer it in a cup?????
I have asked that Q.before but no one seems to want to answer it????
If your child wanted a taste, why not give her a cupful of BM?
Just wondering :)
Actually, I don't own a breastpump and have tried to hand express in the past and only ever got a drop :)
sopolicha - not offended at all :hugs:
kadownie
25-03-2006, 21:14
What an interesting read.
Nemosmum- in regards to offering breast milk in a cup- I found that when I was expressing my boobs would be very lumpy and it was horrible.
My opinion is that breastfeeding is natural. If the breastfeeding relationship was supposed to end at a particular time then wouldn't the breasts just stop making milk....think about all the other processes in a womans body- like periods and pregnancy- they all have a particular time frames.
And this woman obviously has a relationship from birth with her children where she breastfed them- so to her and her children, it's not gross. When my babies were young (I have twins) I couldn't imagine how you could feed beyond one- my bubs are now 19 months and I can't really see an end in sight. It's not like the child is 9 has suddenly got an interest in sucking on her mothers breasts- that would be unusual- she's just engaging in a comfort and food source that she's had all her life. I can think of many foods that are abusive to children that most of us don't think twice about offering. This mother is not only providing her daughters with nutrition but lots of other goodies as well. Breastmilk is amazing!
To me, my breasts are sexual- in some cases-like when I have sex, and in other cases -like when I breastfeed my bubbies- they are not. Just like my legs or my back is involved in sex, it doesn't mean that they don't have other functions. Breastfeeding certainly isn't a sexual experience for me and I know that my bubs are receiving the natural comfort and nutrients that they thrive on. Personally- I have found that the best rememdy for those hard toddler moments (and we have a few having twins) is to lie down and have some booby.
Anyway- that's my opinion. I do think it's sad that people see it as abusive. It may not be culturaly normal for us, but that doesn't make it wrong.
I haven't read all the posts here - too many!
I think you're talking about the article in recent women's magazine about breastfeeding a 9 yr old (for her birthday special treat) and another lady who feeds her 4 yr old.
I am only 10 weeks away from giving birth myself but I have to admit I found the article offensive. I also note there seems to be no mention of a man in these women's lives so one wonders if they are using this as some kind of substitute.
My job with Qld Police shows many child abusers out there - there have been cases where mothers continue breastfeeding and have been charged for sex offences against their children too (although this is not common). I'm not saying ALL women who continue to breastfeed do this but be aware there are some sick people out there. Once a child is onto solids they get their nutritional needs from good food and breastmilk would no longer be adequate!
sopolicha
26-03-2006, 06:43
Neeny, assuming you intend to breastfeed and can successfully do so, you will soon realise that a baby/infant child sucking on your engorged, milk filled breast is in no way a substitute for a man.
I agree that children should get all their nutritional needs from a balanced diet.
I am really interested to hear and read about about those instances you mention where the breastfeeding mother was charged with sex offences against her children. Did they relate directly to breastfeeding and did they conclude in a successful prosecution against the mother?
Mischief
26-03-2006, 09:19
Personally it makes me feel sick to the stomach!
The baby has their own imune system from 6 months and the mothers milk doesnt assist much after that! So for health reasons its not all that valid!
Breastfeeding a 9 year old is sick and gross and I personally feel like its abuse!
If its for health reasons, or anything like that....then go for it....express away, but having a child of 9 on the breast.....well thats just sick!
Once a child is onto solids they get their nutritional needs from good food and breastmilk would no longer be adequate!
Most children start solids at around 6mths of age (some younger) yet the WHO still states that breastmilk should be the child's primary food source for their first 12mths (ie solids complement breastmilk not the other way around) and that children should be breastfeed until they are at least 2yo.
If people think once a child is onto solids, they don't benefit from breastmilk it's no wonder our society has such dismal breastfeeding rates. :thumbsdown:
By the way - that woman does have a husband. And her child finished breastfeeding (self-weaned) at the age of 5. She asked to be breastfed ONCE when she was nine. If the woman hadn't shared that bit of info with the reporter, would everyone still think it's so sick and abusive?
How many 9yo's ask for things that they had when they were a baby because they are growing up and want that comfort they had as a small child? In this case it happened to be breastfeeding. For someone else it might be being picked up, or sleeping in mum and dad's bed. It was a one-off.
the_queen
26-03-2006, 11:18
I can think of many foods that are abusive to children that most of us don't think twice about offering.
:yelclap: What a fantastic point!!!
:yelclap: :yelclap: :yelclap:
By the way - that woman does have a husband. And her child finished breastfeeding (self-weaned) at the age of 5. She asked to be breastfed ONCE when she was nine. If the woman hadn't shared that bit of info with the reporter, would everyone still think it's so sick and abusive?
How many 9yo's ask for things that they had when they were a baby because they are growing up and want that comfort they had as a small child? In this case it happened to be breastfeeding. For someone else it might be being picked up, or sleeping in mum and dad's bed. It was a one-off.
sorry but in the article it has that she had just stopped breastfeeding her youngest daughter who is 8 years old her 9 year old wanted a taste but the fact is she was still breastfeeding the other until 8years of age.
the_queen
26-03-2006, 15:42
sorry but in the article it has that she had just stopped breastfeeding her youngest daughter who is 8 years old her 9 year old wanted a taste but the fact is she was still breastfeeding the other until 8years of age.
Yes: still breastfeeding. Not suddenly breastfeeding. Child Led Weaning means letting the child decide when they wean. There's plenty of women around who practice CLW, and in general the child weans themselves anywhere between 2 and 5 years old. 8 yrs old is at the extreme far end of the spectrum - that's why this story was in a TABLOID MAGAZINE :rolleyes:
There's this mantra that seems to be constantly chanted around this place: "We all love our children and we all do what we believe is the very best we can for them, " - yet this particular mother believes she's doing the best for her children and she gets lambasted and treated with disgust!!! I would like to see such disgust levelled at mothers who selfishly choose* to stop BFing their babies before the age of 3 months.
:mad: The judgements and ignorance that are evident in this thread is making me so angry right now.
*by choose I mean make the choice for no good reason. I KNOW THERE ARE PLENTY OF MUMS WHO ARE FORCED TO SWITCH TO FORMULA, I was one of them.
misskittyfantastico
26-03-2006, 15:55
:mad: The judgements and ignorance that are evident in this thread is making me so angry right now
I'm sorry you're getting so cranky:thumbsdown:
I've resisted posting in this thread so far because of something you mentioned in your post.....The article was in a crappy women's magazine!
Tabloid journalism (journalism?) is designed to be provocative and inflamatory NOT well researched or informative:banghead:
As for the "right" age to wean?
IMO is a totally personal choice and whether your child is weaned/weans themselves "early" or "late" is no ones business but your own
the_queen
26-03-2006, 16:04
ITA Steph. I'm sure if this story was in a reputable publication, there would have been a more balanced approach to the issue.
I'm sorry I got so cranky too... stupid pregnancy hormones :rolleyes:
Pippi Longstocking
26-03-2006, 16:51
Queenie, the more stuff of yours I read, the more I like you:smiliedance: . If it makes you feel any better, I'm not sorry you got cranky. I was feeling similarly and I'm not pregnant :o .
But seriously, if I have to read that mothers breastfeed for their own self pleasure one more time, I think I will :barf: . Breastfeeding is lovely and pleasureable but about as sexually arousing as congealed cold vomit.
And I completely agree - I find it so bizarre that our society condemns extended breastfeeding but doesn't blink an eye and in some cases actively encourages early weaning...:rolleyes: . Is it just me or is this really really odd? Why is cows breastmilk ok to feed to a child of 9 but human breastmilk isn't?
Queenie, the more stuff of yours I read, the more I like you:smiliedance: . If it makes you feel any better, I'm not sorry you got cranky. I was feeling similarly and I'm not pregnant :o .
But seriously, if I have to read that mothers breastfeed for their own self pleasure one more time, I think I will :barf: . Breastfeeding is lovely and pleasureable but about as sexually arousing as congealed cold vomit.
And I completely agree - I find it so bizarre that our society condemns extended breastfeeding but doesn't blink an eye and in some cases actively encourages early weaning...:rolleyes: . Is it just me or is this really really odd? Why is cows breastmilk ok to feed to a child of 9 but human breastmilk isn't?
pmsl sorry but i think the authorities would have something to say with a child or adolescent sucking on a cows teets. pmsl
the_queen
26-03-2006, 17:24
Breastfeeding is lovely and pleasureable but about as sexually arousing as congealed cold vomit.
:laughing: :laughing: How true!!!!
Really Pumpkin? I grew up on a farm and my grandma used to squirt cows milk straight from the teat into my mouth all the time.
******'s point is a valid one. We all feed our kids the "bodily fluid" of an animal that is actually designed especially for baby COWS! But we are shocked and horrified that a human being would feed her child breastmilk (actually designed for humans.. ya wouldn't read about it! :eek: ) beyond a certain "acceptable" age. Does nobody else get how nonsensical that is?? :rolleyes:
sopolicha
26-03-2006, 17:40
pmsl sorry but i think the authorities would have something to say with a child or adolescent sucking on a cows teets. pmsl
Does anyone suck on a cows teat?
Must not have caught on like breastfeeding.
the_queen
26-03-2006, 17:41
So true Cosmic.
There was some "prank" done on a reality TV show (I think - maybe I read about this on here, so someone may be able to correct my failing memory:D ) Where the contestants had to drink some milk as a challenge. They thought, hey that's easy, so they did it. Then they were told it was human breastmilk - and they were all revolted and disgusted and felt sick etc etc. :rolleyes: yet we're all encouraged to drink the breastmilk of a cow on a daily basis!!!!????!!! It's crazy I tells ya.
I've been discussing this whole EBF issue with DH and he's happy for me to continue BFing until bubs weans himself. And when I suggested that I also express some milk to go in the fridge every day, so Vallerie (and DH if he wants!) can drink it too, he was fine with that as well.
Pumpkin I agree with Cosmic about the cows teats issue too - plenty of farm-bred people have drunk milk "straight from the cow's teat".
nemosmum
26-03-2006, 18:17
I have nothing against breast milk and nothing against parents who wish to give their bubs/children Breast milk I too think its natural...
What I have a problem with is the theory its ok to allow a child of say 9 to suckle at her/his mothers breast. Im sorry if that offends anyone and makes me into this "Anti- Breast Milk devil" lol but I find it offensive,
The whole idea of child lead weaning is great in theory (and in most cases I dare say it works out great for both mum and child) but to just say let children bf until whenever they want is, to me silly
Coz what happens when the child gets beyond the age of 9 and still wants to bf? and please dont say this wont happen coz it may and thats the whole point alot of mums on here are trying to make when do you draw the line and say "thats the cut off age"? Just curious:)
reAllytee
26-03-2006, 18:39
nemosmum im with you on this also & i too am not against bf in any way i just think well i dunno LOL hrrmmmz its hard really but i think there has to be a line just like there is a line with a child learning to toilet train i mean would it be ok to still allow a child of 9yrs to wear a nappy to school because he/she isnt comfortable with going to the toilet ?
Anyways as i said this is hard to say whats right & wrong but i think everyone needs to understand most of us here arent anti bf or against it we are just worried about the kids which really isnt such a bad thing after all as we are mums !
Breastfeeding is lovely and pleasureable but about as sexually arousing as congealed cold vomit.
Urgh. That was quite diverting.....
Sorry, carry on.
S & Ally - I hear what you are both saying, and there are some parents who let their child decide when to toilet train as well (I think.. :rolleyes: ) and the fact is most children self-wean long before the age of 9.
I already said that I doubt very much I'd still be breastfeeding my child at that age.. my only objection is to the harsh judgements being made about this mother when none of us are in her position. Everyone arks up if someone gets judged for switching to formula but it's ok to crucify a woman who is feeding her child naturally. :confused:
LittleBoysRock
26-03-2006, 19:33
Sorry but I think breast feeding a 9 year old is perverted. Even African countries dont do it THAT long!
I have a 9 year old. The thought makes me feel sick - and I really really doubt that any self respecting 9 year old would be doing it out of CHOICE. I think it is psychologically abusive. I would love to see that kid in 10 years time - bet he/she is in therapy big time - or has some major "mummy" issues. I think the mother needs a psychiatric assessment.
I think 4 is too old too - but I can see how possibly the kid might still be attached to it as a comfort thing - I mean I had to prise the dummy away from my 5 year old - well actually the Dummy fairy came.
Ok pro breast feeders - feel free to shoot me down. LOL
I couldnt agree more! Well said.
I mean I understand that breast feeding is natural and the best thing for babies nutrionally but for a nine year old?? Nope there is something wrong with the Mother to be offering them the breast at that age!!
reAllytee
26-03-2006, 19:34
cosmic - I totally understand what you are saying really i can but i guess like all things including ff & cc etc we all have our own opinions etc & arent afraid to use 'em LOL.
I guess what it comes down to is the fact its from a tabloid magazine which as we all know like to cause a fuss ! So in this case it definately has heh.
Of course i believe that a child should self wean whether it be from the breast, the bottle or nappies but at the same time i think there should be encouragement from mum to do so when the child becomes of school age. Mainly i guess my thing is that you cant keep them as a baby forever & by then they have had all the benefits & the likes i guess past that age my issue is who it really is benefiting.
Sorry im rambling & i dont mean to.
I guess sometimes we all judge harshly in one way or another but when it comes down to it its never meant badly. Sorry dont know how to explain myself cant get my head together tonite let alone any other time LOL. Basically other judgements have been made in other threads it happens we are human & have our flaws mine tends to be foot in mouth disease LOL.
Does anyone suck on a cows teat?
Must not have caught on like breastfeeding.
pmsl:D
not that i know of but has to be gross if they did
the_queen
27-03-2006, 10:49
pmsl:D
not that i know of but has to be gross if they did
:banghead: so it's gross to think of actually sucking on a cows teat, but it's alright to drink cows milk from a carton??
sopolicha
27-03-2006, 11:04
:banghead: so it's gross to think of actually sucking on a cows teat, but it's alright to drink cows milk from a carton??
It is even grosser to drink it straight out of the carton. :laughing:
the_queen
27-03-2006, 11:08
It is even grosser to drink it straight out of the carton. :laughing:
LOL I will SO agree with you there....
melfunction
27-03-2006, 11:11
It is even grosser to drink it straight out of the carton. :laughing:
:barf:................
sweetvanilla
27-03-2006, 11:25
breastfeeding a nine yr old?? Sound like an incest to me.....pardon my word if it's too rude.
:banghead: so it's gross to think of actually sucking on a cows teat, but it's alright to drink cows milk from a carton??
i actually have manners therefore i do not drink straight out of the carton/ bottle etc lol
but from a glass is fine as you get calcium from cows milk what beneftis are the 8 and 9 year old getting from breastmilk???sfa
that is why when they are 12 months they need more then breast milk alone as it does not provide everything that they need.
the_queen
27-03-2006, 12:47
What benefits are they getting??
HIGH QUALITY PROTEIN
Protein is a prime example of how human milk is unique nutrition for human babies. Human milk is low in protein, at least when compared with the milk of other species, especially cow's milk. This isn't a nutritional deficiency; there are good reasons for this. Human infants are designed to grow slowly. While it's important for humans to develop strong bodies, even more important is brain development and the learning of social skills. The experiences that shape the brain come from close contact between mother and baby when baby is held and carried. If human infants doubled their birthweight in less than 50 days the way baby calves do, and then continued growing, how could their mothers carry them and talk to them and keep them close? Baby cows need to learn where to find the best grass in the meadow; baby humans need to learn how to work with others so that everyone's needs get met.
Though the protein content of human milk is generally low, the types of amino acids that make up these proteins are important. One particular amino acid, taurine, is found in large amounts in human milk. Studies show that taurine has an important role in the development of the brain and the eyes. The body can't convert other kinds of amino acids into taurine, so its presence in human milk is significant--so significant that some formula manufacturers have begun adding it to artificial baby milks.
If you let milk stand out of the refrigerator and sour, you will see that milk proteins fall into two categories, curds and whey. (Remember Miss Muffet?) The curd portion, the casein proteins, are the white clots; the liquid is the whey. Cow's milk is mostly casein protein, which forms a rubbery, hard-to-digest curd in babies' tummies. Human milk has more whey than curd, and the curds that are formed are softer and more quickly digested. Breastfed babies get hungry sooner than babies who are formula-fed because human milk proteins are digested so efficiently. It doesn't take as much energy to digest human milk as it does to digest formula. Frequent feedings also ensure that human babies get lots of attention from their mothers.
SELF-DIGESTING FATS
There's another reason why babies digest human milk so quickly: the fat in human milk comes with an enzyme, lipase, that breaks the fat down into smaller globules so this important nutrient can be better absorbed into the bloodstream. Fat is a valuable source of energy for babies, so the presence of lipase makes the fat in human milk more available. This is one of the reasons human milk is so good for premature babies, who need lots of energy to grow but whose digestive systems are very immature.
A changing nutrient for changing needs. The fat content of human milk changes constantly. Typically, fat levels are low at the beginning of a feeding and high at the end. Babies nurse eagerly to get the low-fat, thirst-quenching foremilk, then slow down and linger over the high-fat dessert at the end of their meal. Babies who nurse again soon after the end of the last feeding get more high-fat milk, so babies who breastfeed more frequently during a growth spurt get more calories. Longer intervals between feedings bring down the fat content of the milk stored in the breast. This nutritional fact of human milk is one of the many reasons why the rigid 3 to 4 hour scheduled style of feeding is biologically incorrect.
Smarter fats. The special kind of fat in human milk is important to brain development. As newborn babies grow, the nerves are covered with a substance called myelin which helps the nerves transmit messages to other nerves throughout the brain and body. To develop high-quality myelin, the body needs certain types of fatty acids--linoleic and linolenic--which are found in large amounts in human milk. (See "Breastfeeding Builds Brighter Brains")
VITAMINS AND MINERALS
The vitamins and minerals listed on the formula can are no match for those in the milk made by mom, even if milligram by milligram comparisions suggest otherwise. When formula researchers want to know how much of a particular vitamin or mineral babies need each day, they look first at how much of that nutrient is present in human milk and how much milk a baby of a given age takes in a day. But just doing the math doesn't tell the whole story. More important than the amounts of nutrients in the milk is the amount that is available for the infant to use, a nutrient principle called bioavailability. The bioavailability of a nutrient is influenced by many factors, including its chemical form and the presence of other substances.
The three important minerals calcium, phosphorus, and iron are present in breastmilk at lower levels than in formula, but in breastmilk these minerals are present in forms that have high bioavailability. For example, 50 to 75 percent of the iron in breastmilk is absorbed by the baby. With formula, as little as four percent of the iron is absorbed into baby's bloodstream. To make up for the low bioavailability of factory-added vitamins and minerals, formula manufactures raise the concentrations. Sounds reasonable, right? If only half gets absorbed by the body, put twice as much into the can. Yet, this nutrient manipulation may have a metabolic price.
Baby's immature intestines are required to dispose of the excess. Meanwhile, the excess unabsorbed minerals (especially iron) can upset the "ecology of the gut," interfering with the growth of healthful bacteria and allowing harmful bacteria to flourish. This is another reason formula-fed infants have harder, more unpleasant smelling stools.
To enhance the bioavailability of nutrients, breastmilk contains facilitators - substances that enhance the absorption of other nutrients. For example, vitamin C in human milk increases the absorption of iron. Zinc absorption is also enhanced by other factors in human milk. In an interesting experiment, researchers added equal amounts of iron and zinc to samples of human milk, formula, and cow'd milk, and fed them to adult volunteers. More of the nutrients in the human-milk sample got into the bloodstream compared to the formula and cow's milk. In essence, breastmilk puts nutrients where they belong - in baby's blood, not in baby's bowels.
HORMONES AND ENZYMES
Every year medical journal articles describe more valuable substances discovered in human milk. Scientists are only beginning to write the story on other factors in human milk that may be important to baby's growth and development. For example, other enzymes besides lipase are available to aid infant digestion. Epidermal growth factor, present in human milk in significant amounts, may promote the development of tissues in the digestive tract and elsewhere. Other hormones in milk may influence a baby's metabolism, growth, and physiology. The effects may be subtle, but they may also have far-reaching implications. Being breastfed has advantages that reach into adulthood. Science is only beginning to learn what these benefits are.
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/2/T020800.asp
And yes, past the age of 12 months people do need to eat food as well. Just like calves need to start eating grass as well as milk, past a certain age.
And FYI, calcium is present in many different foods, eg leafy green vegetables, oily fish with edible bones, sesame seeds, tofu... to name just a few. Vitamin C increases the absorption of calcium into the body, so drinking orange juice every day is also a great way to boost your calcium intake.
but from a glass is fine as you get calcium from cows milk what beneftis are the 8 and 9 year old getting from breastmilk???sfa
that is why when they are 12 months they need more then breast milk alone as it does not provide everything that they need.
As if cow's milk keeps it's nutritional properties forever but human milk suddenly becomes nutritionally deficient past a certain date? That doesn't even make sense! :confused: The fact that they need additional foods past a certain age doesn't mean there is no nutritional value in breastmilk. That's like saying there's no point eating spinach (for example), because it's not enough on it's own and you need other foods as well. :rolleyes:
As if cow's milk keeps it's nutritional properties forever but human milk suddenly becomes nutritionally deficient past a certain date? That doesn't even make sense! :confused: The fact that they need additional foods past a certain age doesn't mean there is no nutritional value in breastmilk. That's like saying there's no point eating spinach (for example), because it's not enough on it's own and you need other foods as well. :rolleyes:
the above post was to do with BABIES and their milk requirements, not children who are 7, 8 or 9 years old. can you please find me any relevent info for a child of any of those three ages? not babies??
i did not say anyhting about the above posters comment about cows milk keeping good past a date etc so please do not assume that is what i am saying. all i and many others are saying is what good is it to a 7,8 or 9 year old? where is the scientific proof to back up such a study.(again not of an infant or child of 12 months of age but of the ones who are 7,8 or 9 years of age.)
the_queen
27-03-2006, 13:57
How about you explain what HARM it is doing to an older child??
We (society) feed our 7, 8, 9 yr old children cows milk. You made some vague reference to the benefits of calcium in cows milk. All the benefits of cows milk can be gotten from other sources - but we still drink cows milk, don't we? I guess maybe some people like the taste. Why can't a child choose to have ONE breastfeed as a special birthday treat?? Obviously she remembers the feeding relationship with such fondness - and possibly she just likes the taste too... where's the harm in that???
As has been mentioned, there aren't very many children of this age still breastfeeding. If the "lactivist" movement was militantly trying to force all mothers to continue breastfeeding their child to the age of 9, then possibly this whole thread would have some kind of validity. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
*Bowing out now before I bruise my forehead*
Pippi Longstocking
28-03-2006, 07:35
Pumpkin, can I ask a simple question?
Do you believe that cows breast milk is better for a 9 year old than human breast milk? If so, why?
Pumpkin, can I ask a simple question?
Do you believe that cows breast milk is better for a 9 year old than human breast milk? If so, why?
in our society feeding children past say 4 years of age is not a done thing, obviously if the mother wants to feed her child beyond 7 years etc then she is not willing to emotionally let the poor child grow up and develop into a stable child (which the child should be by that age)
why would anyone (other parents etc who don't let their children suck on their breasts for comfort only) want that child to associate with their children?
there are a couple of cases out there that the kids are 6 and still doing it yet they also drink cows milk like any normal developing child. so why then do they need to suck from their mothers if they are drinking other milk as well iykwim
as far as i'm concerned and friends of mine are concerned then this is just wrong to be doing it to a school aged child. as it really is only providing emotional comfort to the mother as like i said before she is unwilling to let her "baby" grow up.
breast feeding is really required for premmies, babies up to 12 months (longer like 2 to 2.5 would be ok) as it protects from many things but then in saying that if someone cannot breastfeed then there are heaps of formulas out there which do nearly the same thing as breastmilk.
i wonder how these kids are going to be when they grow up (the ones that are breastfeed past 7 years etc) i wonder how emotionally stable they will be. i also wonder if there are any studies done on that as well.
above is my opinion and i hopefully will not have to repeat myself.
the_queen
28-03-2006, 11:35
As someone who tried with every ounce of my body mind and soul to get my 14 week old back onto the breast after facial surgery, I can personally attest that IT IS PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO FORCE ANY CHILD TO BREASTFEED. A child who is breastfed past what pumpkin and her friends see as acceptable, is NOT just being fed to "provide emotional comfort to the mother" - it is a MUTUALLY ACCEPTABLE action between mother and child.
As someone who tried with every ounce of my body mind and soul to get my 14 week old back onto the breast after facial surgery, I can personally attest that IT IS PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO FORCE ANY CHILD TO BREASTFEED. A child who is breastfed past what pumpkin and her friends see as acceptable, is NOT just being fed to "provide emotional comfort to the mother" - it is a MUTUALLY ACCEPTABLE action between mother and child.
in the article it states that she has only just stopped breastfeeding her 8 year old, therefore she didn't stop breastfeeding the whole time.
as in my previous post i stateed that it was MY opinion everyone is entitled to their own opinions. unless of course this is a biased forum????
It's not a biased forum, Pumpkin. It's a forum where you get to post your opinion and other people, who may not agree with you, get to post theirs. ;)
misskittyfantastico
28-03-2006, 11:57
Oh PUHLEESE! reading this thread is like being on a merry-go-round......
I think I better jump off before I :barf:
i think the question is, is the child actively choosing this, or doesnt know any better..... when will it stop.. breastfeeding at 13..... The child will eventually recognise that it isnt something everyone else is doing. Only in the future will you find out how the child has been affected by it.. they may have a very close bond with their mother for the experience or they could be negatively affected and quite confused to find out that it isnt normal. who knows.
I personally find it perverted and think the family should be counciled.
Pippi Longstocking
28-03-2006, 13:52
I personally believe that people that find breastfeeding a child to be perverted/sexual/incest/abusive etc are the ones with the problem. It is THEM that's sexualising breastfeeding, therefore it is them that could benefit from counselling.:rolleyes:
i think the question is, is the child actively choosing this, or doesnt know any better..... when will it stop.. breastfeeding at 13..... The child will eventually recognise that it isnt something everyone else is doing. Only in the future will you find out how the child has been affected by it.. they may have a very close bond with their mother for the experience or they could be negatively affected and quite confused to find out that it isnt normal. who knows.
I personally find it perverted and think the family should be counciled.
totally agree:yelclap:
I personally believe that people that find breastfeeding a child to be perverted/sexual/incest/abusive etc are the ones with the problem. It is THEM that's sexualising breastfeeding, therefore it is them that could benefit from counselling.:rolleyes:
it is fine as long as they are under a certain age (for example when they are really benefitting from it like birth to 2.5 ) not 6 and up
the_queen
28-03-2006, 14:23
I personally believe that people that find breastfeeding a child to be perverted/sexual/incest/abusive etc are the ones with the problem. It is THEM that's sexualising breastfeeding, therefore it is them that could benefit from counselling.:rolleyes:
totally agree :yelclap:
I don't see how or why it becomes sexual after the age of six.
And let's not forget that in the case of the original story, both of these children stopped breastfeeding. So all the concern about these children maybe still wanting to breastfeed when they are 15 is completely unfounded. In fact, it's a lot like the people who say to parents who co-sleep "But you'll NEVER get the child out of your bed!". Well, yes, actually they do decide when they are ready to move on. :)
Baby Girl
28-03-2006, 14:55
I don't see how or why it becomes sexual after the age of six.
So if you had a child who was 9 - the early beginnings of puberty, awareness of the birds & bees and awareness of the male (and sometimes female) fascination with breasts - who wanted to suckle after giving it up 4 years earlier, that would be okay??
And let's not forget that in the case of the original story, both of these children stopped breastfeeding. So all the concern about these children maybe still wanting to breastfeed when they are 15 is completely unfounded. In fact, it's a lot like the people who say to parents who co-sleep "But you'll NEVER get the child out of your bed!". Well, yes, actually they do decide when they are ready to move on. :)
lol C, im with you on that one, i mean how many 16 yr olds still want to co sleep with mum? not many i bet :p
So if you had a child who was 9 - the early beginnings of puberty, awareness of the birds & bees and awareness of the male (and sometimes female) fascination with breasts - who wanted to suckle after giving it up 4 years earlier, that would be okay??
I really think that we, as adults, are transferring a lot of our own 'stuff' about breasts onto these children. I'm pretty darn sure that no child of that age finds their mum's boobs a turn-on. :eek: ESPECIALLY not a child who has been breastfed beyond infancy. The only thing that child is going to relate to breasts is nurturing, comfort and food.
lol C, im with you on that one, i mean how many 16 yr olds still want to co sleep with mum? not many i bet :p
Erin, I always loved Janet's response to that one.
"Oh I'm sure he'll want to be out of my bed by the time he's sexually active and if not, at least I'll know who he's sleeping with". :laughing:
I miss Janet. :(
Baby Girl
28-03-2006, 15:06
I'm pretty darn sure that no child of that age finds their mum's boobs a turn-on.Don't be so sure :rolleyes:
I was just saying that by 9 years of age, kids start to become aware of some things that may influence their view of boobs.
The question I ask is , why after 4 years of not breastfeeding did the child need to feed for her birthday present?? To me that puts into place a bigger picture of WHY did this child feel the need for this? Was it emotional, physical or otherwise?? I guess we will never know.
Personally, I am divided on the issue, I think bf is great but I also think that past a certain age it does become inappropriate.
melfunction
28-03-2006, 15:07
The way I read the article, this child wanted a breast-feed as a special treat for her 9th birthday.
it is fine as long as they are under a certain age (for example when they are really benefitting from it like birth to 2.5 ) not 6 and up
Can you point me in the direction of any articles that say kids don't benefit from a breast-feed past 6 and up? And is it harmful?
misskittyfantastico
28-03-2006, 15:13
The question I ask is , why after 4 years of not breastfeeding did the child need to feed for her birthday present?? To me that puts into place a bigger picture of WHY did this child feel the need for this? Was it emotional, physical or otherwise?? I guess we will never know.
I would think it wasn't so much a need but want. Even when I was a teenager (infact even now) I found it incredibly comforting to crawl into bed with mum and dad. I think that for this particular child, the request for a breastfeed came from a similar place:)
I totally agree Steph! :thumbsup:
sopolicha
28-03-2006, 15:22
Part of me thinks the mother dealt with it the right way. You want a breastfeed :laughing: sure go for it, no big deal, don't make an issue out of it. Kid forgets about it pretty quick, (like mummycloud's daughter - back to the X-box pretty quick) yes it is freaky but why make such an issue out of it?
There are worse things happening to kids out there.
Personally I hope the question never arises in this house.
I think if kids are sexualising their mothers breasts then there are some real issues going on.
Erin, I always loved Janet's response to that one.
"Oh I'm sure he'll want to be out of my bed by the time he's sexually active and if not, at least I'll know who he's sleeping with". :laughing:
I miss Janet. :(
lol me too!
The way I read the article, this child wanted a breast-feed as a special treat for her 9th birthday.
Can you point me in the direction of any articles that say kids don't benefit from a breast-feed past 6 and up? And is it harmful?
how many kids of 6 and up have you heard of dying from sids (none) (even though some infants etc that die are being bf) or benefitting from breastfeeding because there immune system is not complete yet, how many kids of that age need to breast feed because they cannot drink normal milk due to difficulty digesting the cows milk??? and no i am not talking about milk allergies. how many 6 year olds havent had their brain develop??so therefore need breastmilk to ensure proper brain development!pmsl
this thread is one that people will keep :banghead: :banghead:
misskittyfantastico
28-03-2006, 15:32
Pumpkin, I don't think you really answered KM's question:)
Pippi Longstocking
28-03-2006, 15:33
how many kids of 6 and up have you heard of dying from sids (none) (even though some infants etc that die are being bf) or benefitting from breastfeeding because there immune system is not complete yet, how many kids of that age need to breast feed because they cannot drink normal milk due to difficulty digesting the cows milk??? and no i am not talking about milk allergies. how many 6 year olds havent had their brain develop??so therefore need breastmilk to ensure proper brain development!pmsl
Say what?:confused:
Chickadee
28-03-2006, 15:35
Pumpkin, if you are frustrated with this thread then you can always close it. You have that ability because you started it.
Personally I think everything has been said that possibly can be, and the discussion has run it's useful course.
melfunction
28-03-2006, 15:36
how many kids of 6 and up have you heard of dying from sids (none) (even though some infants etc that die are being bf) or benefitting from breastfeeding because there immune system is not complete yet, how many kids of that age need to breast feed because they cannot drink normal milk due to difficulty digesting the cows milk??? and no i am not talking about milk allergies. how many 6 year olds havent had their brain develop??so therefore need breastmilk to ensure proper brain development!pmsl
this thread is one that people will keep :banghead: :banghead:
Oh yes pumpkin, I see what you are getting at :rolleyes: And I haven't stopped pmsl this entire thread.
sopolicha
28-03-2006, 15:36
[QUOTE=pumpkin]how many kids of 6 and up have you heard of dying from sids (none) (even though some infants etc that die are being bf) QUOTE]
That would be because SIDS is Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. Once they are no longer an infant it is explained in different terms such as Sudden and Unexplained Death.
Is there a link between SIDS and BF?
serenitynow
28-03-2006, 15:39
Oh yes pumpkin, I see what you are getting at :rolleyes: And I haven't stopped pmsl this entire thread.
You pipped me at the post, again K.M
[QUOTE=pumpkin]how many kids of 6 and up have you heard of dying from sids (none) (even though some infants etc that die are being bf) QUOTE]
That would be because SIDS is Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. Once they are no longer an infant it is explained in different terms such as Sudden and Unexplained Death.
Is there a link between SIDS and BF?
sorry but they stop being an infant when they are 12 months of age yet there are children out there who die at ages 2 and 2.5 so they are not infants are they?
bf is supposed to help prevent children dying of sids (so therefore it is maybe/maybe not useful for that i was stating that there are no 6 year olds that die of sids therefore would not benefit from bf iykwim
Pumpkin, if you are frustrated with this thread then you can always close it. You have that ability because you started it.
Personally I think everything has been said that possibly can be, and the discussion has run it's useful course.
sorry not frustrating to me i was just saying that this is the type of thread that everyone obviously has different views and people will always go back to the question of why is your answer this instead of that kinda thing iykwim
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