politicians are people too...

[Susan Mac]

Just wanted to put my two bobs in...

I know that are lot of people here are anti-Liberal, but I think it is important to remember that these Liberal politicians (e.g. John Howard) are actually people too, and it's not fair to speak of them in the manner that many have.

You may not like John Howard at all and are happy to see him go, but I think PM is a tough gig and he deserves a little respect.

[Roopee]

I have been dying to say that all day.

Thank you.

I certainly hope that none of their families/friends are reading some of the derogatory remarks being flown around in here.

[forbetoel]

I certainly recognise that they are people, but I will not ignore their blatent lies and deceit. My gripe is with the government as a whole. I respect John Howard as a person, as a husband and as a father, but no, I do not respect his political views, and Yay that I live in Australia where I can voice that. :)

[Roxy]

I'm not Liberal Party supporter, but I agree.

I felt sorry for John Howard last night - he lost his job last night, and could very well lose his seat in Parliament.

They are big changes, especially if he loses his seat when it's all he has known for 33 years.

[Susan Mac]

I certainly recognise that they are people, but I will not ignore their blatent lies and deceit. My gripe is with the government as a whole. I respect John Howard as a person, as a husband and as a father, but no, I do not respect his political views, and Yay that I live in Australia where I can voice that. :)

Agree totally. I just think there is a big difference between disagreeing with political views and speaking disrespectfully of the person.

[Susan Mac]

They are big changes, especially if he loses his seat when it's all he has known for 33 years.


He can spend some time with his new grandson, and do all those things Jeanette's been nagging him to do for the past 11 years... :p

[KatiesMum]

You also have to remember that his job was to represent the people of Australia - and those people have now said in the majority that they would prefer he not represent them!!!!

When you agree to be a candidate you agree to scrutiny of the people you are applying to represent, and agree to uphold the promises that you make them.

People are entitled to criticise how he went about doing the job Australia employed him to do. In most cases it is not a criticism of him as a person, just how he governed Australia.....

Note - I am a liberal voter and did vote for John Howard - but the people have spoken.

[mum_inlove]

Just wanted to put my two bobs in...

I know that are lot of people here are anti-Liberal, but I think it is important to remember that these Liberal politicians (e.g. John Howard) are actually people too, and it's not fair to speak of them in the manner that many have.

You may not like John Howard at all and are happy to see him go, but I think PM is a tough gig and he deserves a little respect.

:iagree:. IMO, even though he might have make mistakes or told lies, I have to say that he did a great job during his leaderships.

[Roopee]

When you agree to be a candidate you agree to scrutiny of the people you are applying to represent, and agree to uphold the promises that you make them.

People are entitled to criticise how he went about doing the job Australia employed him to do. In most cases it is not a criticism of him as a person, just how he governed Australia.....

Note - I am a liberal voter and did vote for John Howard - but the people have spoken.
I agree with this but no one needs to hear remarks regarding his eyebrows- calling him or his team any type of animal.
Scrutiny is fine- name calling is not.

[mum_inlove]

I agree with this but no one needs to hear remarks regarding his eyebrows- calling him or his team any type of animal.
Scrutiny is fine- name calling is not.

:iagree: with you.

[melwallace24]

I thought Howard's concession speech last night was eloquent and he demonstrated a great deal of integrity. I thoroughly disagree with the statement he made though about the state in which he left our nation.
Suspicion and distain for authority is engrained in our culture unfortunately. Doesn't make it right, but does explain why so many people dislike pollies. I think too, that we sort of barrack for parties like footy teams. You don't really hate the opposite side at the final whistle (unless its Collingwood) ***unnecessary text removed***

Is that way of topic?! Ramble over.

[KatiesMum]

I agree with this but no one needs to hear remarks regarding his eyebrows- calling him or his team any type of animal.
Scrutiny is fine- name calling is not.

:iagree: with that - Personal insults are not acceptable (for any politician, not just him)

I havent looked into many of these threads, but what I have seen has been mainly criticisms of the way he governs .....



And I also agree with mum_in_love - I think he has done a great job.

[millymoo]

What a great OP!!!! I have felt uncomfortable many a time reading the way many, but mainly JH have been called names and ridiculed throughtout this campaign.

Well said:thumbsup:

[CharlisMummy]

Thank god someone said it!

I'm a bit disgusted by some things that have been said.

I voted Labor but I am sad to see Johnny go and feel for the rest of his party. It was sad watching Joe Hockey on the Ch 7 coverage last night, he was gutted and had to go into work today and sack 20 people straight up.

I respect John Howard and think he has done a great job, but I think it was time for a change.

[millymoo]

Charlismummy I think you said that so well.

:hugs::flowerz:

[hayleylea]

I agree with the majority on this thread too.

I think it was time for a change, but to be honest i actually feel a little sorry for John Howard and his party. Someone likened it to a football game etc...and i know how gutted people get when they loose the grandfinal (which is basically what this was). This was JH life so long and I think he did a pretty good job for the majority of it. So be it if not everyone agreed with him, that will never happen with any leader that we get or any country for that matter.

I think it will take awhile for everyone to get use to the change, and I Wish both Rudd and Howard all the best in their new roles. Neither of them deserve the ridicule and comments that they have copped on here and everywhere for that matter IMO.

[mysonroger]

i actually came on this arvo to say how aggressive and vitriolic people are on this forum towards john howard, the liberal party and 'the haves' in our society. but i was going to go into the 'labor par-tay' thread to do it. this seems the right place though.

i am a liberal supporter, and yesterday it was very important for me to have a discussion with my labor supporting friend before i went into to cast my vote. i knew he would present his views in a intelligent and articulate way, and you wouldn't have to sift through all the insults and negative remarks and aggression to try and find the what the point was. the labour supporters here on bubhub dominated the political forums with sheer aggro while absolutely being on the attack, about everything, even anything.

john howard didn't win, and i didn't vote for rudd, but i wish rudd all the best and hope he can really pull it off. i hope he can be a great leader and achieve everything he wants and has planned. if he had lost , i wouldn't be yahooing and carrying on, dishing insults his way, laughing at his demise. john howard and kevin rudd have both done something right, to be in the positions that they are, and kevin rudd is going to have to absolutely work his behind to achieve the respect that john howard commands. sure mr. howard has made mistakes, but i'll put my house on rudd making mistakes too. more so, due to lack of experience.

i would love to see some of these aggro bubhubbers get the job of PM for just one day and see how well they cope; seen as they think they know so much.

i wish kevin rudd all the best. and congratulations to him.

[Pippi Longstocking]

Meh, personally, I feel the vitriol is warranted :p
John Howard upset a lot of people. They have a right to express that and to celebrate the new government. I don't condone childish name-calling (unless of course it's "JHo" in which case that is poifectly acceptable on account of it's funny :laughing:) but I think people have the right to express their feelings about him.

We -don't- automatically have to respect him. I don't. It's as simple as that.

That being said, I am happier to look forward rather than backwards. John Howard is sooo last season :D

[Bewitched]

(unless its Collingwood)

:nono::nono::nono:don't get there hun, plenty of Collingwood supporters here!! Ggggrrr! :laughing:

I think personal remarks are unnecessary as well, but what got me thinking more watching both speeches last night was those kids....would they get picked on at school for their 'dads' job/policies because they hear their parents constantly bagging out the PM? Being the KID of a PM would be just as hard as being PM i reckon..

[Mamaduke]

I think that someone in John Howard's profession would have heard anything and everything derogatory there is to be said about a person and could probably care less.
When my Dad was a policeman he had porcelain pigs in his office just to be one step ahead of the crims he was interviewing.
Water off a duck's back for people in these types of jobs.
Besides, making childish remarks about a person's features etc says more about the person saying these things than the person it's directed at.

[SassyMummy]

Meh - people called Kevin Rudd a "smug little worm," people made comments about Howard's eyebrows... neither particularly bothers me.

Respect isn't automatically deserved because of the position one has. I respect the role of Prime Minister... but that doesn't mean I have to respect anyone who is IN that role simply because they're in it.

It all comes with the territory, and surely the pollies have skins thick enough to not be too bothered. He DOES have big hairy eyebrows, he DOES look like Mr Sheen... saying it out loud really isn't that much of a big deal IMO.

It really is no different from calling Paris Hilton a superficial airhead.

[CharlisMummy]

:nono::nono::nono:don't get there hun, plenty of Collingwood supporters here!! Ggggrrr! :laughing:

I think personal remarks are unnecessary as well, but what got me thinking more watching both speeches last night was those kids....would they get picked on at school for their 'dads' job/policies because they hear their parents constantly bagging out the PM? Being the KID of a PM would be just as hard as being PM i reckon..


:iagree:

[stellarella]

Anyone who bases their political opinion on eyebrows, smarmy grins, age, weight or the like has a problem to begin with but yes I do agree, it is fine to hate their policies but comments about appearance etc. (for either party) is pretty childish.

I think it is fair to voice harsh opinions on bad policies, being racist, elitist, heartless (etc.) though. And lets face it, JH is all of those.

I enjoyed his concession speech, he was dignified and all that but lets face it, he kinda had to be. He did sound dejected and sad but anyone would when they had just lost so astronomically. I felt sorry for him, and yes I felt empathy for him, but I feel that for any human being because I am compassionate and empathetic.

He must have known it was coming, there is only so long you can go around with reckless abandon, screwing people over before you will be kicked out. Maybe he should have thought of that before he kicked us when we were down and drove us into the dirt.

[~Emmylou~]

I have to say I think we're all being a little bit precious today ;)

For many people the change of government has been a long, long time coming and they are entitled to be happy about it.

Many people have felt marginalised, insulted and downright embarrassed by the coalition for YEARS, of course they're going to be gleeful to see their end.

I will never respect someone simply because they are the Prime Minister, or the Treasurer. If I wanted to think like that I would go and live in America where it's practically treason to disagree with the government about anything. Actions earn my respect (or lack of it), not titles.

And I will never feel sorry for any outgoing politician - they know the rules when they enter the game and most of them come out of it quite nicely. I will save my sympathies for the most vulnerable and disadvantaged in this country that the coalition left behind.

[forbetoel]

Meh - people called Kevin Rudd a "smug little worm," people made comments about Howard's eyebrows... neither particularly bothers me.

.

And don't forget the ear wax incident, or Peter Costello calling Kevin Rudd the Milky bar kid. And Julia Gillard...well she cops more personal insults than anyone in politics, so lets not kid ourselves into pretending it is all inflicted on poor John. He is not dead, we don't have to remember him like he is. He had a long political life and now it is over, he can now enjoy time with his family, and live well off his big fat pension.........such is life.

[melwallace24]

[quote=Bewitched;2129989]:nono::nono::nono:don't get there hun, plenty of Collingwood supporters here!! Ggggrrr! :laughing:

Hee hee. Fished in!

:laughing: ( < not sneezing alot, just laughing)

[FishFace]

I dont think John Howard would be that worried about comments about his eyebrows.

Pollies call each other names and start smear campaigns. They are not above a bit of name calling themselves.

I agree its pretty childish but heh thats humans for you.
I dont feel sorry for John Howard. He was going to retire. this has made his decision for him. He held his position for a lot longer then some so I doubt he is distraught over this. Dissapointed well yeah but he had a great run and I am sure HE is proud of what he did.

Soon chasers and rove and every other comedien will have a side gag for Rudd. Its the way it is. You are in the public eye so you are there for praise but also ridicule.

It was time for a change in Australia. The people voted, I doubt his eyebrows had much to do with it so i dont think he will worry to much about that comment!

[Harlequin]

Double standards much?

Seriously, people have been insulting both Howard and Rudd on here ever since the election was called.

Why, all of a sudden, is it bad to be 'mean' about Howard? Is it because he lost?

[RedPanda]

Everyone has the right to an opinion, but I have to admit that I do feel it's a little immature to be a bad loser or a bad winner! I think Kevin Rudd was a dignified, and professional winner. John Howard appeared to be a dignified and professional loser. We're talking about politics, not football teams. The "Go my team go" attitude just doesn't fit, and quite often I think it cheapens an argument and makes the person look less intelligent. Many politicians with extremely different views are often friends and agree on some middle ground. I would never strike someone off for having different views to mine, therefore I can't sit in my armchair and slag off politicians (although I do disagree with the decisions that many of them make and I find it hard to respect Tony Abbott!).

The television coverage I saw on Ch 9 (though I didn't see much because I had a shocker of a night, and ended up taking my son to hospital), was almost like something you'd do for reality TV. They were putting photos of politicians (who had lost their seat) through an animated shredder. It was something out of Big Brother or another crappy reality show. Nothing like what you'd expect of political coverage. I'm an adult - give me the commentary, not animation!

[CharlisMummy]

Nicely said Hazellew :)

[forbetoel]

Why, all of a sudden, is it bad to be 'mean' about Howard? Is it because he lost?

Stockholm Syndrome.

[melwallace24]

The shredder was hilarious! I was a bit bored towards the end, I thought they could have ripped some, set some on fire, or had litle oompa loompas stomp on some depending on how great the swing was against the candidate. The channel 7 tower of power was good value too. Seriously though, I agree that the footy thing trivialises things, but if this attitude or the cheesy coverage gets otherwise disengaged people to tune in, then its all good to me.

[forbetoel]

The "Go my team go" attitude just doesn't fit, and quite often I think it cheapens an argument and makes the person look less intelligent. !

I agree, but have really jumped on the labor bandwagon big time this election in response to my growing resentment of the Howard government. I wanted them out, and the only way we could do this was to get Labor in, and luckily they offered a much better option where the enviroment and IR laws were concerned.

[tickle]

Tower of Power? Shredder? Right there is why I would only watch the ABC. Kerry O'Brien was right, they can't just have a serious coverage of the election results, they had to resort to desperate attempts to grab ratings. :no:

I think people that support both sides have said not so nice things about the both leaders. Not nice, but that's just what happens. Unfortunately threads like this rarely make any difference to how and what people post though.

It sure has been interesting over the last 6 weeks but I am really glad it is all over and I can close this section soon. :D

[reAllytee]

It sure has been interesting over the last 6 weeks but I am really glad it is all over and I can close this section soon. :D


Thank God ! :smiliedance:

[Susan Mac]

Double standards much?

Seriously, people have been insulting both Howard and Rudd on here ever since the election was called.

Why, all of a sudden, is it bad to be 'mean' about Howard? Is it because he lost?


I meant all politicians. Howard was just my example. :)

[Blueberry Crumble]

Oh please guys- Its all part of politics, making fun of politicians- their looks too. What do you think cartoonists do? What about those puppet/dummies fast forward used to use? Politicians haveto have a thick skin or they wouldnt be in the job. Seriously, who cares that people are saying Kevin Rudd looks like a worm, or that John Howard has catterpillar eyebrows and looks like Mr Sheen's brother. Its all part of the game.

[RainbowStars]

I cannot feel sorry for someone who has lied to myself, my family, my friends and every other person in Australia. I wish all the liberals the best for the future, but i will not feel sorry for him losing nor any snide remarks that are flown in his direction. IMO he deserves what he gets.

[melwallace24]

Personally I think Kevin Rudd looks like an emoticon or smilie. I guess because his head is so round. Is this offensive? I don't think so. In fact, I think it helped him subliminally!

[Odessa]

Politicians are public figures who make major decisions that affect our lives. I'd be concerned if people didn't speak out against things they disagree with - and politics is a very dirty game. I don't think anyone here deserves a 'telling off' because they backed the winner (or disparaged the opposition) - it's the nature of the game.

[Aquamarine]

Personally I think Kevin Rudd looks like an emoticon or smilie. I guess because his head is so round.

lol he does too!!:yes:

[Odessa]

I'd like to find a Kevin smilie - he'd be smiling and adjusting his glasses :laughing:

[jenkinsdakota]

Two wrongs don't make a right, but I remember many people mocking Rudd, going on about how he has a baby-face.

The Liberal fear campaign also slurred at Rudd, calling him a Learner.

[jenkinsdakota]

The shredder was hilarious! I was a bit bored towards the end, I thought they could have ripped some, set some on fire, or had litle oompa loompas stomp on some depending on how great the swing was against the candidate. The channel 7 tower of power was good value too. Seriously though, I agree that the footy thing trivialises things, but if this attitude or the cheesy coverage gets otherwise disengaged people to tune in, then its all good to me.That shredder is a classic. A good one by Channel Nine. They seem to come up with lots of political innovations, like using the worm without the participants' consent.

[RedPanda]

Two wrongs don't make a right, but I remember many people mocking Rudd, going on about how he has a baby-face.

The Liberal fear campaign also slurred at Rudd, calling him a Learner.

I think they've all copped their fair share Jenkins. This thread is about politicians in general.

Btw, what the heck is wrong with a baby-face? I thought it was a good quality!:goodvibes: I'd love to be called baby-face - it would mean I was youthful!

[lotti]

Wouldn't bother Howard.
Do you really think now that Rudd will never ever get voted out?
They all have their turn and in a way it keeps the competition going and (hopefully) means things will continue to get done.
I am a liberal supporter but I really hope that Rudd achieves some of things he proposed and does a great job for all of us.
I wish Labor the best of luck. :tree:

[melwallace24]

Nothing wrong with a baby face! I just want to pinch his rosy little cheeks!

[Silvana]

And don't forget the ear wax incident, or Peter Costello calling Kevin Rudd the Milky bar kid. And Julia Gillard...well she cops more personal insults than anyone in politics, so lets not kid ourselves into pretending it is all inflicted on poor John. He is not dead, we don't have to remember him like he is. He had a long political life and now it is over, he can now enjoy time with his family, and live well off his big fat pension.........such is life.
:iagree: it goes both ways. Rudd and the rest of his team were copping a lot of childish flak as well.;)

If a politician can't handle childish insults then they are in the wrong job. You have to be thick skinned, whether it is fair or not. It is times like these that remind me how soft society is becoming.

[IAdoreYou]

:iagree:

I got myself prepared last week for this victory and I postal voted weeks ago for the Coalition, we went away for a long weekend.
I can't believe I've come back and so many of you gals still "hate" the Libs with a passion.

JH and Costello "did" a great job to get this country back on track! Labor are in now, lets hope for the best.

[BabelFish]

I think this is part-and-parcel of being a politician. As we saw from Tony Abbott's charming comments after his late arrival to the Press Club Luncheon and his attitude in general, I think politicans are a LOT harder on each other - and nastier, and lower, and meaner, and crueller, than the general public ever could be. I doubt their families care - they are all old hats at this.

Calling Julia Gillard `deliberately barren' was one of the most disgusting things I've ever heard. Fortunately she laughed it off - but nobody will ever know how it affected her in private. Politics is a dirty game. I think they have more to fear from each other than from the likes of us.

And I didn't feel sorry for John Howard at all. Not even a fraction. He knows why he lost the election. Perhaps if he had listened to his people a little more - the people he claims to represent - then he would still be in power. He's a tough man, and although he is a liar he I'm sure is honest enough with himself to know that he dug his own grave in this one - every pinch of dirt.

I did, however, feel sorry for Peter Costello. And I still do. That man was treated like **** by his boss for 11 years, after devoting his whole life to his party, virtually behind the scenes, as Howard was always such a megalomaniac scene-snatcher, who forced Costello to play a quiet second fiddle for his whole career. Peter is now retiring with some dignity, and I have to say he's the only one I have any shred of respect for.

And I hope that Malcolm Turnbull successfully wins leadership of the Liberal party. I believe he will bring them back to the party they used to be, with respect and integrity.

[IAdoreYou]

I did, however, feel sorry for Peter Costello. And I still do. That man was treated like **** by his boss for 11 years, after devoting his whole life to his party, virtually behind the scenes, as Howard was always such a megalomaniac scene-snatcher, who forced Costello to play a quiet second fiddle for his whole career. Peter is now retiring with some dignity, and I have to say he's the only one I have any shred of respect for.

He didn't retire!!! He is going to step back to teach the young guys in the Liberal party everything HE knows! the more I think about this , the more intelligent the man truely IS! He is going to spend the majority of his time now teaching young pollies everything they need to know, I guess we will see one of those taking over in the future ;)

[BabelFish]

D'oh! I didn't mean to say retire. But in the interview I saw with him on TV before he said he is leaving the party to pursue a commercial career. His own words. Has he said something different now?

[IAdoreYou]

D'oh! I didn't mean to say retire. But in the interview I saw with him on TV before he said he is leaving the party to pursue a commercial career. His own words. Has he said something different now?

He is continuing on to do what I mentioned above, he will be also pursuing a life away from the front bench which requires 120% of your time!

[IAdoreYou]

Costello Quotes He says he thanks the people of Higgins for re-electing him, and says he will continue to serve his constituents, as well as be a mentor for up-and-coming members of the Liberal Party.

;)

Link if needed :-
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/25/2100538.htm?section=australia

[BabelFish]

Yep - I just found an article that says just that. That he will quit politics but remain on the backbench as a mentor and lawmaker.

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSSYD15346420071125

Well, good on him. I hope he does get to spend more time with his family, after all.

[Pippi Longstocking]

I can't believe I've come back and so many of you gals still "hate" the Libs with a passion.



Erm, what did you expect, exactly? Us to say "Oh whoopsy, our bad. Now that he's out we realised we just loooooved him and his terrible policies"?!

Yep, I still intensely dislike John Howard's government. I am very very pleased that he is gone and I think expressing that is perfectly acceptable. It's called celebrating. :smiliedance:

I'm very sorry the election didn't go the way you wanted it to (well, obviously I'm not really but it seemed the polite thing to say :p) but you can't seriously expect people to not still be angry at the Liberal Government?

[Bewitched]

Erm, what did you expect, exactly? Us to say "Oh whoopsy, our bad. Now that he's out we realised we just loooooved him and his terrible policies"?!

Yep, I still intensely dislike John Howard's government. I am very very pleased that he is gone and I think expressing that is perfectly acceptable. It's called celebrating. :smiliedance:

I'm very sorry the election didn't go the way you wanted it to (well, obviously I'm not really but it seemed the polite thing to say :p) but you can't seriously expect people to not still be angry at the Liberal Government?

:laughing::laughing::laughing:

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

I saw alot of people on bub hub make comments about Rudd being an ear wax eater- isn't that the same as taking a swipe at JHo's eyebrows??? Something they can both change.

I do not feel sorry for JHo one bit- he did not care about the workers who got the raw end of the deal and lost their jobs through the IR laws- so why should we feel sorry for him when he looses the election and his job because of this?
There are many reasons I wanted him out - he may have done or looked to have done a great job with the economy, (through the sale of telstra and not spending $ where they needed to be spent). However he neglected the majority of the people with his policies and that is why he wa voted out.

[Susan Mac]

Oh please guys- Its all part of politics, making fun of politicians- their looks too. What do you think cartoonists do? What about those puppet/dummies fast forward used to use? Politicians haveto have a thick skin or they wouldnt be in the job. Seriously, who cares that people are saying Kevin Rudd looks like a worm, or that John Howard has catterpillar eyebrows and looks like Mr Sheen's brother. Its all part of the game.


Again, there is a difference between making fun of the way they look, and referring to them as 'such losers'.

But I think now I'm sorry I started this thread... :(

[forbetoel]

Again, there is a difference between making fun of the way they look, and referring to them as 'such losers'.
:(

Really? See I would think that the remarks over personal appearence are much worse.

Sure I will say someone is arrogant, out of touch, a coward....these are all observations I have made in regard to character, but big nose, round face, bushy eyebrows....that is just childish, fun for some, but pretty childish.

Just my take on it.

[Susan Mac]

Really? See I would think that the remarks over personal appearence are much worse.

Sure I will say someone is arrogant, out of touch, a coward....these are all observations I have made in regard to character, but big nose, round face, bushy eyebrows....that is just childish, fun for some, but pretty childish.

Just my take on it.


No you are probably right.

I'm just going to leave this conversation now I think. :wave:

[forbetoel]

No you are probably right.

I'm just going to leave this conversation now I think. :wave:

No don't do that, it is a good thread, and your opinion is just as important. Without different opinions there would be no conversation, and therfore no analysis of our own thinking, which is always a good thing. :)3