View Full Version : Bob Hawke Gives Three Reasons to Vote Labor
jenkinsdakota
21-11-2007, 18:00
Did anyone read this in The Age?
The PM continues to misrepresent the truth. He must go
Bob Hawke
November 21, 2007
JOHN Howard has advanced three arguments why you should not vote Labor, each one based on a gross misrepresentation of the truth. I will now demolish those arguments, not with opinions but with facts.
First, the trade union bogy. Every working Australian, and those dependent on them, is indebted to the trade union movement. Everything they take for granted that largely makes up their standard and quality of living — their pay structure, paid annual leave, long-service leave, sick leave, penalty rates, equal pay — was fought for and won by the trade union movement....
Continued at http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/11/20/1195321779086.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
sockstealingpoltergeist
22-11-2007, 15:05
:iagree::yelclap: He is right about that.
forbetoel
22-11-2007, 17:09
:yes: :yes: :yes:
It's a good article, asides for the fact that every economic argument against Howard is largely irrelevant when you consider Costello has the books, then if we consider the fact Wayne Swan is taking over if Labor wins we're looking at a highly experienced person who’s shepherded us through the last 12 years, going to a newbie with no experience.
I really hope Labor doesn't win because as the ad says, they'll stuff our economy, really.
jenkinsdakota
24-11-2007, 23:57
I really hope Labor doesn't win because as the ad says, they'll stuff our economy, really.How are you so sure? When Peter Costello was starting his career as treasurer, he didn't have any experience. How could he if he was beginning it? If experience is always necessary, would that then be an argument to have never put Costello in the role of treasurer at the beginning?
The argument the Liberal fear campaign ads have given us was that if we look at history, under Labor the economy has been dismal but under Liberal the economy has been great. Most people would conclude then that the Liberal party is responsible for the great economy. But we need to remember that there is a time lag between introduction of an economic policy and the economic benefits that result from that policy change. To ignore this and to simply look at the correlation between economic growth and which party is in power is to commit a mathematical fallacy (see correlation does not imply causation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation)).
Read Who Are the Better Economic Managers? (http://www.compareshares.com.au/dobb14.php)
Pippi Longstocking
25-11-2007, 05:16
I really hope Labor doesn't win because as the ad says, they'll stuff our economy, really.
Ahhhh well, guess we'll find out eh?! :smiliedance::yelclap::smiliedance::yelclap:
forbetoel
25-11-2007, 08:08
Ahhhh well, guess we'll find out eh?! :smiliedance::yelclap::smiliedance::yelclap:
Yes, lets watch history unfold, not watch liberal scaremongering ads to make up our minds. It is the people who swallow the liberal garbage that I thought would help Howard retain government.
Blueberry Crumble
25-11-2007, 08:25
YAY! Go Labor! God, Finally. I remember sitting there ten years ago with my mum (who was very labor) watching Johnny get in. Well now he is out! Sadly, my mum died of cancer in 2002, I so wish she could have been here to see this.
How are you so sure? When Peter Costello was starting his career as treasurer, he didn't have any experience. How could he if he was beginning it? If experience is always necessary, would that then be an argument to have never put Costello in the role of treasurer at the beginning?
No, as Howard+Costello = Treasury experience, albeit JH's pretty bad run of it, but nonetheless experience.
Rudd+Swan = No experience and absolutely shocking policy. When asked if a recession came how they would help arrest it, guess what the first response was? Child care rebates.
That’s just plain scary, the government can do a heck of a lot more to control the economy & interest rates than that. It’s almost as bad as Pauline Hanson’s suggestion of printing money to help poor families.
Also, I can be pretty sure being that I work in the financial industry - in two concurrent positions.
Yes, lets watch history unfold, not watch liberal scaremongering ads to make up our minds. It is the people who swallow the liberal garbage that I thought would help Howard retain government.
Yes it’s so terrible that I’ve been a Labor supporter for nearly all my life and have this election made an informed decision based on the utter lack of realistic policy put forward by Labor, just a few points;
- Roll back of IR laws which will result in job losses
- Proposed Mortgage Industry Regulation which will result in job losses
- Lack of economic planning experience, dodgy responses in interviews
- Bizarre housing policy which they plan to put homeless in houses, thinking that will fix the problem while addresses no root causes resulting in a homeless person now having a home they can’t afford
I really hope for our children’s sake you are right, because right now this country is in the best economic condition it has ever been in, the vast majority of people are wealthier, unemployment is low, and superannuation has been fixed.
Let’s not forget the government can control interest rates & the economy – John Howard was wrong to promise interest rates will stay at an all time low (yet realistically they are still quite low) he was wrong to campaign this year on the consecutive rate rises under Labor when economically it’s not a reliable figure when you consider Labor took the cap of interest rates (there by screwing everyone with a mortgage, btw) whilst Howard as treasurer had the benefits on the interest rate cap whilst the cash rate flew as high as 22%. Yet amongst all that, our control has still done exceptionally well – if Labor can’t take a winning position and keep it on track and if Labor doesn’t met the expectations they’ve laid out it will really be a dark page in Australia’s history and for all the cheering all the Labor supporters are doing now I’m really wondering if the same people are going to be willing to stand up and take responsibility for voting in a the Rudd Government if things turn sour and not cop out and lay the blame on “External Factors”.
forbetoel
25-11-2007, 09:37
Yes it’s so terrible that I’ve been a Labor supporter for nearly all my life and have this election made an informed decision based on the utter lack of realistic policy put forward by Labor, just a few points;
- Roll back of IR laws which will result in job losses
- Proposed Mortgage Industry Regulation which will result in job losses
- Lack of economic planning experience, dodgy responses in interviews
- Bizarre housing policy which they plan to put homeless in houses, thinking that will fix the problem while addresses no root causes resulting in a homeless person now having a home they can’t afford
I really hope for our children’s sake you are right, because right now this country is in the best economic condition it has ever been in, the vast majority of people are wealthier, unemployment is low, and superannuation has been fixed.
Let’s not forget the government can control interest rates & the economy – John Howard was wrong to promise interest rates will stay at an all time low (yet realistically they are still quite low) he was wrong to campaign this year on the consecutive rate rises under Labor when economically it’s not a reliable figure when you consider Labor took the cap of interest rates (there by screwing everyone with a mortgage, btw) whilst Howard as treasurer had the benefits on the interest rate cap whilst the cash rate flew as high as 22%. Yet amongst all that, our control has still done exceptionally well – if Labor can’t take a winning position and keep it on track and if Labor doesn’t met the expectations they’ve laid out it will really be a dark page in Australia’s history and for all the cheering all the Labor supporters are doing now I’m really wondering if the same people are going to be willing to stand up and take responsibility for voting in a the Rudd Government if things turn sour and not cop out and lay the blame on “External Factors”.
John Howard is his own downfall. Keep preaching your doom day banter, I for one will judge the Labor party based on future dealings and results. And as I have said before, our great economic postition has not been felt by everyone, the gap between rich and poor have never been greater, you may think this is a good thing, but quite frankly, it makes me sick.
charlen49
25-11-2007, 09:44
John Howard is his own downfall. Keep preaching your doom day banter, I for one will judge the Labor party based on future dealings and results. And as I have said before, our great economic postition has not been felt by everyone, the gap between rich and poor have never been greater, you may think this is a good thing, but quite frankly, it makes me sick.hear hear!!!!!!!!:iagree:
~Emmylou~
25-11-2007, 10:10
Yes it’s so terrible that I’ve been a Labor supporter for nearly all my life and have this election made an informed decision based on the utter lack of realistic policy put forward by Labor, just a few points;
- Roll back of IR laws which will result in job losses
- Proposed Mortgage Industry Regulation which will result in job losses
- Lack of economic planning experience, dodgy responses in interviews
- Bizarre housing policy which they plan to put homeless in houses, thinking that will fix the problem while addresses no root causes resulting in a homeless person now having a home they can’t afford
I really hope for our children’s sake you are right, because right now this country is in the best economic condition it has ever been in, the vast majority of people are wealthier, unemployment is low, and superannuation has been fixed.
Let’s not forget the government can control interest rates & the economy – John Howard was wrong to promise interest rates will stay at an all time low (yet realistically they are still quite low) he was wrong to campaign this year on the consecutive rate rises under Labor when economically it’s not a reliable figure when you consider Labor took the cap of interest rates (there by screwing everyone with a mortgage, btw) whilst Howard as treasurer had the benefits on the interest rate cap whilst the cash rate flew as high as 22%. Yet amongst all that, our control has still done exceptionally well – if Labor can’t take a winning position and keep it on track and if Labor doesn’t met the expectations they’ve laid out it will really be a dark page in Australia’s history and for all the cheering all the Labor supporters are doing now I’m really wondering if the same people are going to be willing to stand up and take responsibility for voting in a the Rudd Government if things turn sour and not cop out and lay the blame on “External Factors”.
All hail the almighty dollar :rolleyes:
After all, that's all that really matters...isn't it?
I for one am sick to death of hearing about what the ex-government achieved economically and quite frankly that's all they've banged on about through their whole campaign because they HAVE nothing else to be proud of.
And I'm just getting in early here before someone comes back with "you can't fix social issues without any money"....NO you can't - but you can't fix them by just SITTING on a pile of money either.
jenkinsdakota
25-11-2007, 10:11
Ahhhh well, guess we'll find out eh?!
Yes, lets watch history unfold, not watch liberal scaremongering ads to make up our minds. It is the people who swallow the liberal garbage that I thought would help Howard retain government.Peter Costello says there will be a financial tsunami coming. With the US economy failing at the moment, he is probably right and if I were forced to bet I'd say a worldwide recession is coming. But this recession was going to happen whether or not Labor or Liberal were in power. As I said before, be careful about concluding a causative relationship between things that may be independent.
No, as Howard+Costello = Treasury experience, albeit JH's pretty bad run of it, but nonetheless experience.
Rudd+Swan = No experience and absolutely shocking policy. When asked if a recession came how they would help arrest it, guess what the first response was? Child care rebates.In a recession many people may have trouble getting child care because they are earning little or have lost their job. What would you suggest as the best way to fix a recession? One school of thought says the government should boost consumer demand while another school of thought says recessions are normal corrections by an efficient market.
That’s just plain scary, the government can do a heck of a lot more to control the economy & interest rates than that.Like what? If a recession hits, I don't think much can be done but to sit and wait. I've already diversified my investment portfolio quite a bit in anticipation for this financial tsunami that is likely to come.
When Hawke-Keating were in charge, a recession hit and Keating called it the "recession we had to have." Many were not happy, but this recession was likely caused by international factors. Labor then embarked on an economic reform program that many claim laid the foundation to today's strong economy. If we judge economic performance in terms of sharemarket returns, the Hawke-Keating years produced the best sharemarket returns for Australia. Read http://www.compareshares.com.au/dobb14.php
A lot has been said about Howard's supposed skills in managing the economy, but even the Liberals on their website admit that individuals are the true producers of wealth. In Western Australia it is mainly a case of Asians buying iron and zinc, etc from Australian mining companies. The Government's only role in this transaction is to intervene and grab some tax revenue for itself.
Keep preaching your doom day banter, I for one will judge the Labor party based on future dealings and results.
I believe I said that I was hopeful the Labour supporters would be accessing the parties actions, would that not be judging on their future dealings and results? You can't really judge them based solely on the Victory speech - which I must say was one of the better in campaigns of recent memory.
And as I have said before, our great economic postition has not been felt by everyone, the gap between rich and poor have never been greater, you may think this is a good thing, but quite frankly, it makes me sick.
Well, voting for Labor really does nothing to fix that, if anything it makes it worse.
One of the greatest rich/poor issues right now is the access to Dental Care, Liberals had a dental package offering $4,000 per year for all Australias, Labor has some odd teenagers/student package - which is great, it covers the people with the best teeth in the least need. Shame about all the adults in dire need, the same adults which are the poor you said you were worried about!
Then there's the simple fact that no Labor government has institution a personal savings plan or campaign, yet this Liberal government did - and Labor complained about it. It's almost as if the Labor government doesn't want people to save money?
Then there was the NT intervention, sure, it may not be the ideal way to go about things, but some action is better than no action. Yet now Labor is talking about pulling out and re-opening the liquor stores at all hours - Guess getting drunk makes being poor & abused better?
The biggest issue with the rich/poor gap is that money makes money - if you have no money you are only earning what you are working for or gaining from welfare/etc yet if you do have savings you earn money from what you are earning but also what your money is earning - two income sources, which means when people who have savings lose their jobs they are not as worse off.
One of the greatest tragedys is the lack of understanding about money - if people become more educated they might not be so poor. Most people aren't aware you can become a millionaire by working an ordinary job on ordinary wages whilst supporting a family at home. Instead they just spend their money and buy latest whiz-bang device #3.
No policital party is offering a solution to the rich/poor issue, but one side has tried, and I'm going to be very interested as to how the Rudd Government handles it as right now their Homeless Housing Policy has all the earmarks of a disaster in the making.
I'd also point out, just because there are some poor, doesn't mean the so called "rich" should be somehow penalised, otherwise what's the point of putting any effort in?
MummaBear03
25-11-2007, 10:18
I really hope Labor doesn't win because as the ad says, they'll stuff our economy, really.
If Australia's economy was so strong, why are families struggling to make ends meet? It's a dream for the average family to own a home! People can barely afford anything, kids are pushed into daycare centres due to living expenses requiring a double income now. We live in a country where GST has made it so it's cheaper to buy a brand new DVD/VCR combo each and every week than it is to feed the family for a week and that's just wrong. There are tax cuts being handed out hell west and crooked, but if you kept every receipt of every purches over a 12 month period, you would die when you work out how much you pay in GST in that time. Not to mention the price of fuel now...:shame:
Peter Costello says there will be a financial tsunami coming. With the US economy failing at the moment, he is probably right and if I were forced to bet I'd say a worldwide recession is coming. But this recession was going to happen whether or not Labor or Liberal were in power. ]
Heh, Paul Keating, is that you?
Wow, not even 24 hours after the election and you’re preparing to blame external factors for problems which haven’t happened yet!
I hate to point this out, but even if the US economy keels over, it is possible to avoid a recession here. There are many ways to avoid such, the least of which is infrastructure expansion.
In a recession many people may have trouble getting child care because they are earning little or have lost their job. What would you suggest as the best way to fix a recession?
The first step in avoiding or breaking a recession is not spending money pointlessly Furthermore if someone has lost their job, why do they need child care? They could look after the child themselves and save money. If they are earning little perhaps they shouldn’t be working, there are support systems for this.
There isn’t simply a best way, it depends on the underlying factors that brought on the recession, removing investor courage by bringing in a newbie government could be such a factor if the newbie government doesn’t demonstrate their fiscal ability. Lack of jobs can be another – but currently we’re in an unprecedented period of employment – this could of course be ruined by the current government if they decide to strengthen unions & remove commercial protections (that is, increase worker protections).
We also have record levels of debt & equity ownership – should the government be unable to exert control over interest rates through sensible policy this could lead to rampaging repossessions and loss of value on hard assets.
So there are many underlying factors to take into consideration, all of which can be managed, or mis-managed. This is going to be the test for the new government, they’ve already demonstrated some poor policy, whether they take advice and fix it, or simply go for the trial and error approach is going to be the litmus test.
One school of thought says the government should boost consumer demand while another school of thought says recessions are normal corrections by an efficient market.
Like what? If a recession hits, I don't think much can be done but to sit and wait. I've already diversified my investment portfolio quite a bit in anticipation for this financial tsunami that is likely to come.
Another school of thought is that banking deregulation is the problem, and that the current market problems are the result of Alan Greenspan’s liquidity policies.
A lot has been said about Howard's supposed skills in managing the economy, but even the Liberals on their website admit that individuals are the true producers of wealth. In Western Australia it is mainly a case of Asians buying iron and zinc, etc from Australian mining companies. The Government's only role in this transaction is to intervene and grab some tax revenue for itself.
Well, asides for making the transaction legally viable, marketing Australia, as well as developing our relationships – doing things such as hosting APEC, which in the black & white sense is a waste of money, yet put Australia in the #1 news slot world wide for those few weeks. Also, see above, I’ve already said people need to take responsibility for their own money and not blame the rich for their inability to save.
Are you saying you don’t believe the Government should be intervening and taking taxes? We should move to a no-welfare state where it’s a free for all if you’re poor?
jenkinsdakota
25-11-2007, 10:39
I'd also point out, just because there are some poor, doesn't mean the so called "rich" should be somehow penalised, otherwise what's the point of putting any effort in?I think most people are worried not with the rich getting rich through hard work but with the Liberal party running a regressive transfer system by heavily funding elite private schools, making university education easily available for the rich, etc.
People can barely afford anythingI've said that Labor were not entirely responsible for bad economic output in the past, but I think this applies to the Liberals here. As much as John Howard goes on about his levers on the economy, I doubt he has much control over petrol prices and food prices, which are largely determined by wars, biofuel revolutions in the US, demand from China, etc.
If Australia's economy was so strong, why are families struggling to make ends meet? It's a dream for the average family to own a home!
Because they are being unrealistic. It is the Australian dream to own a home, no one said that it had to be a $500,000 McMansion near the beach.
People can barely afford anything, kids are pushed into daycare centres due to living expenses requiring a double income now.
Yet people are happy buying DVD players, playstations the latest brand clothing and all the rest. Perhaps they shouldn't be buying the junk then complaining they don't have money. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
We live in a country where GST has made it so it's cheaper to buy a brand new DVD/VCR combo each and every week than it is to feed the family for a week and that's just wrong.
GST isn't on standard food items. Only non-essential items. Chocolate isn't required to feed the family, it's a luxury. Maybe skip the DVD Player and buy the essentials.
There are tax cuts being handed out hell west and crooked, but if you kept every receipt of every purches over a 12 month period, you would die when you work out how much you pay in GST in that time. Not to mention the price of fuel now...:shame:
Fuel is expensive because we can no longer pump more out of the ground, it's widely observed that "Peak Oil" has been reached. You may witness rapid increases over the next 10 - 20 years as demand increases, but supply is stagnant.
Tax cuts are being handed out because most people are ignorant and will vote for money in the hand over a functioning hospital. The electorates are their own worst enemy - they demand tax cuts louder than they demand services, the complain when they've gotten a tax cut & money hasn't gone to services. It's not a bottomless pit, if you wish to run the country properly that is - in surplus.
It's possible to raise a family on average wages if you forego some luxury items - a lot of people stand there in the brand name shoes, brand name clothing with the latest mobile phone a huge dvd collection, latest computer, internet connection & gaming console then complain they've not earning enough to save.
forbetoel
25-11-2007, 10:48
Barry your comments on the GST have Liberal elitist written all over them.
The GST has hit the poor the hardest, how sad you can't acknowledge this truth. If only it was as simple as the Libs would have us believe, that is to work hard and you will be rewarded. :(
The GST is on many items that the Libs said wouldn't. I suppose toilet paper is not a necessisty? Surely if you can't afford it, use newspaper?
jenkinsdakota
25-11-2007, 10:51
I hate to point this out, but even if the US economy keels over, it is possible to avoid a recession here. There are many ways to avoid such, the least of which is infrastructure expansion.If China and other emerging markets are still strong then a recession can probably be averted in Australia, but remember that Australia is a small open economy. It makes up only 2 per cent of global GDP. It is highly reliant on trade with other countries, especially the United States.
Plus, China might tank. Price to earnings ratios across many listed companies in China are high, but earnings are rising over time, so that is looking optimistic.
Heh, Paul Keating, is that you?Ha! What makes you think I'm Keating?
Furthermore if someone has lost their job, why do they need child care? They could look after the child themselves and save money. If they are earning little perhaps they shouldn’t be working, there are support systems for this.If I lost my job what I'd do next is try to find another job and when I do I'd work heaps. All this job hunting and working may be difficult if little kids are around the house distracting you.
Remember the Liberals have child care rebates and Baby Bonuses as well. The Baby Bonus has been successful at increasing birth rate, but only from 1.74 babies per woman to about 1.83 per woman or so, which is hardly anything, which makes me suspect this Baby Bonus is just another vote buyer.
I think most people are worried not with the rich getting rich through hard work but with the Liberal party running a regressive transfer system by heavily funding elite private schools, making university education easily available for the rich, etc.
Under Latham the Labor party was going to cut Private funding levels - I was a firm supporter of this.
Under Rudd the Labor party is going to continue the massive Private School "Welfare System" in addition to giving out $800 to wealthy private school parents who are already paying $10,000 - $50,000 to send their children to the elite schools. Wouldn't that $800 be better off with a disabled person who can only afford a neccessary care 3 out of 7 days of a week? I would have thought so!
University education is available to the poor as easily as it is to the rich. If you are poor & smart you have even better chances through some channels.
I was poor and got into uni before the HSC through hard work not money - the same programe that I got into uni with still exists today. Hard work is rewarded.
Asides for which, the biggest sin Labor has ever committed is the whole "university culture" not every child needs to go to university, the world can't be "chiefs" and there is nothing wrong with being a tradesperson, especially these days when you can earn more than a CPA.
I've said that Labor were not entirely responsible for bad economic output in the past, but I think this applies to the Liberals here. As much as John Howard goes on about his levers on the economy, I doubt he has much control over petrol prices and food prices, which are largely determined by wars, biofuel revolutions in the US, demand from China, etc.
He has massive control of Petrol prices, the government controls the duty & gst. A simple bit of paperwork could cut prices by 50% if the government cared too.
Then there is the fact we could make a Hybrid car mandate cutting fuel use by 40-50%. Force all electric cars, force larger ethanol use etc. Many options for fuel price reduction.
In terms of food prices, there is MASSIVE changes that can be made, if you can go to a farmers market an pick up apples for 30c a kilo, why do they cost $6.00 a kilo in woolies? sure 20c in that is transport, 10c is wages for the network of staff, but that's still only 60c - the other $5.40 is flat out profit. If it was legislated that the maximum profiteering allowed was 100% that would leave apples at $1.20 - and no company would refuse to take 100% profits after costs. This wouldn't be Zimbabwe where inflation is in meltown and you get paid $5 today which is worth $2.50 tomorrow yet food costs $10 to make and is being forcefully sold at $2 driving the producers broke - there's plenty of profit to be made if we implement light profit controls.
John Howard didn't have the chops to stare down the oil companies & supermarkets - I hope Kevin Rudd does, however it's not in the unions best interest to do this so I don't think we're going to see it happen. The simple fact is he won't get caucuss support to do it.
Barry your comments on the GST have Liberal elitist written all over them.
The GST has hit the poor the hardest, how sad you can't acknowledge this truth. If only it was as simple as the Libs would have us believe, that is to work hard and you will be rewarded. :(
The GST is on many items that the Libs said wouldn't. I suppose toilet paper is not a necessisty? Surely if you can't afford it, use newspaper?
Hahaha, that's the funniest thing I have heard all day.
Until this election I have been staunchly Labor.
It seems you don't quite understand how the GST works. Lets not forget the Labor & Dems in senate debated what should & shouldn't be hit with GST.
By the way, you can always use a flannel - it's the latest big thing in America - an extension of the cloth nappy trend. You know what one of China's problems is at the moment? They convinced all the rural folk to stop using flannels and use toilet paper, but now they can't cut trees down fast enough using all the available machinery in order to make toilet paper.
Anyhoo, I digress - I'm not a "Liberal Elitist" I'm just realistic.
Hard work is rewarded, doing nothing isn't. Most people have the capacity to increase their income but simply don't care enough to do it - Shiny things now are greater than a future apparently.
All hail the almighty dollar :rolleyes:
After all, that's all that really matters...isn't it?
I for one am sick to death of hearing about what the ex-government achieved economically and quite frankly that's all they've banged on about through their whole campaign because they HAVE nothing else to be proud of.
And I'm just getting in early here before someone comes back with "you can't fix social issues without any money"....NO you can't - but you can't fix them by just SITTING on a pile of money either.
Yeah,
Giving the unemployed jobs is terrible.
Giving the unemployed youth jobs is terrible.
Doing something about aboriginal abuse is terrible.
How do you think you going to have effect social programs when the tax base is in decline and you've a bunch of people looking for jobs that don't exist?
You need a strong economy to have a strong social system. The two are left & right hands of a good nation. Cutting off one hand will lead to the downfall of the nation.
forbetoel
25-11-2007, 11:08
Hahaha, that's the funniest thing I have heard all day.
Until this election I have been staunchly Labor.
It seems you don't quite understand how the GST works. Lets not forget the Labor & Dems in senate debated what should & shouldn't be hit with GST.
By the way, you can always use a flannel - it's the latest big thing in America - an extension of the cloth nappy trend. You know what one of China's problems is at the moment? They convinced all the rural folk to stop using flannels and use toilet paper, but now they can't cut trees down fast enough using all the available machinery in order to make toilet paper.
Anyhoo, I digress - I'm not a "Liberal Elitist" I'm just realistic.
Hard work is rewarded, doing nothing isn't. Most people have the capacity to increase their income but simply don't care enough to do it - Shiny things now are greater than a future apparently.
Glad to hear my post made you laugh so much...I have a feeling that is a hard thing to do.;)
I do understand about the GST, and think that this tax, that Howard promised never EVER to bring in, has hurt the people who can least afford it, and that is all I need to know.
And congratualtions (for want of a better word) on being quite possibly the only staunch Labor supporter to turn to the Liberal party on this election....that has surely given me a bit of a belly laugh!:laughing:
If China and other emerging markets are still strong then a recession can probably be averted in Australia, but remember that Australia is a small open economy. It makes up only 2 per cent of global GDP. It is highly reliant on trade with other countries, especially the United States.
At the same time, whilst we're reliant on China for manufacturing & US for services and research we're still doing quite well in terms of the above and with enough foresight of a downfall it would be possible to arrest some factors. However currently China is financing the US "war on terror" to the tune of 2 billion dollars per day, if China cuts off the funds supply the US will reach a position much like the British Empire did over the Suez. In which case we could be both the beneficiary & loser of such an action. In that we may have the ability to pick up firesale assets from the US whilst achieving an increased relationship with China.
Plus, China might tank. Price to earnings ratios across many listed companies in China are high, but earnings are rising over time, so that is looking optimistic.
I think the status of China will largely depend on the openness of the regime - for example Russia fits the mould of an emerging country but noone in their sane mind would put money into a country where it can simply be "deleted" and ownership taken away from you. (Also much like Zimbabwe currently with foreign ownership being made illegal and regular confiscations of assets happening).
Ha! What makes you think I'm Keating?
Remember after the 90s recession when Keating was running there was all the ads/quotes etc of him saying it wasn't a big deal because "It was the recession we had to have". I had big flashbacks of those silly ads
If I lost my job what I'd do next is try to find another job and when I do I'd work heaps. All this job hunting and working may be difficult if little kids are around the house distracting you.
True, but at the same time could you afford to pick up half the child care bill (or whatever % is ends up being) - wouldn't the money be better spent on interview transport, etc and for the days where there isn't family or friends to mind the kids informally there's usually council occasional care at $10-30/day
Remember the Liberals have child care rebates and Baby Bonuses as well. The Baby Bonus has been successful at increasing birth rate, but only from 1.74 babies per woman to about 1.83 per woman or so, which is hardly anything, which makes me suspect this Baby Bonus is just another vote buyer.
Largely most people feel it was, I do too, but at the same time, we did need to boost our birth rate as the population was in decline without immigration.
LovelyRita
25-11-2007, 11:23
Yeah,
Giving the unemployed jobs is terrible.
Giving the unemployed youth jobs is terrible.
Doing something about aboriginal abuse is terrible.
How do you think you going to have effect social programs when the tax base is in decline and you've a bunch of people looking for jobs that don't exist?
You need a strong economy to have a strong social system. The two are left & right hands of a good nation. Cutting off one hand will lead to the downfall of the nation.
Where did you get that idea from? I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'aboriginal abuse', but from whatever angle you look at it nothing has changed for Indigenous Australian's, unfortunately....
Yes, the Coalition was great. Job security is just fantastic, housing affordability at an all time low, racist policies left, right and centre, the environment, HA where do I begin :thumbsdown:. Some people have benefited from the coalition, but obviously a lot haven't. Welfare for the rich was of course completely necessary, while the public school system wasn't.....I agree a balance is necessary and the coalition had that balance all wrong. They were turning this country into one that, I for one, disliked.
I don't think that the Labor party have all the answers or will fix everything that needs fixing (hence they did not get my primary vote!), but I am positive that some things will change now for the better.
jenkinsdakota
25-11-2007, 11:23
And congratualtions (for want of a better word) on being quite possibly the only staunch Labor supporter to turn to the Liberal party on this electionThat is strange. Hordes of Liberals turned to Labor in 2007. What made you so different?
And congratualtions (for want of a better word) on being quite possibly the only staunch Labor supporter to turn to the Liberal party on this election....that has surely given me a bit of a belly laugh!:laughing:
Well, I'd like to keep the employees, well employed and be able to pay them well which we won't be able to afford if workchoices gets abolished completely :\
For every dodgy Cowra Meatpacking Plant there's about ten workplaces doing things right.
forbetoel
25-11-2007, 11:36
Well, I'd like to keep the employees, well employed and be able to pay them well which we won't be able to afford if workchoices gets abolished completely :\
For every dodgy Cowra Meatpacking Plant there's about ten workplaces doing things right.
So the one in ten don't matter then? How very 'right wing' of you. From everything you have written, I find it quite hard to believe that you ever voted labor? Maybe you were confused with the 'liberal' name, taking it literally, and therefore voting against them, thinking they were infact the dreaded lefties.
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