View Full Version : Kaz Cooke anti-cloth!
I've just borrowed Kaz Cooke's book "Kid-Wrangling" out from the local library. I LOVED "Up the Duff" when I was PG... so I was really settling down to enjoy this one too.
Then I read the nappy section.
She is SSOOOOO anti-cloth.:shame:
And her examples are rediculously outdated and would turn a lot of people of cloth.
eg: (talking about disposables)
They are far and away better than a cloth nappy and that's why they are now so much more popular.
talking about cloth nappies:
they need to be washed with very hefty antibacterial chemical washing powders and in very hot water, and if poo stained, need savage bleaching products to look non skid-marked. Polluted water is the by-product.
They require plastic overpants to stop leaking and these need to be thouroughly rinsed, soked in something antibacterical, rinsed again and hung out to dry.. and they lead to hotter, rashier bots.
(emphasis my own)
Talking about sposies again:
They are stupendously more absorbant so don't need to be changed as often and cause fewer rashes.
They are less fiddly to put on than cloth nappies.
Oh.. I laughed at this one:
Because the bot stays drier, the baby sleeps longer.
Seriously thinking about writing her an email and directing her to the Oz cloth nappy site. :mad:
And she's seriously against breastfeeding for longer than 12 months too.
It makes me angry when such a popular author is so misinformed.:thumbsdown:
She even gives examples of how to justify using disposables if anyone broaches the subject of cloth nappies.. and gives this advice to stop 'cloth advocates'
If they still give you a hard time, hit them gently on the nose with a rolled up newspaper, or try a stern, disapproving voice, and a water pistol.
poo poo to you Kaz.
the_queen
20-11-2007, 21:05
I've not liked any of her parenting books, they're all a load of drivel i say. :thumbsdown: Kaz!!
ugh, sorry but I can't stand her books - I thought Up The Duff was one of the stupidest books I have ever read. Thank goodness I didn't buy it and only got it out from the library.
Mindless pap. It doesn't surprise me that she is misinformed.
Its a big thumbs down from me. I want to use a new smiley...um...
oh, here :iagree:
I hate parenting books all together! I read Birth which is written by two known midwives but could never read any other book.:no:
:thumbsdown: To you Kaz!
*babygirl*
20-11-2007, 21:12
i loved up the duff it had me in stitches... but i dont read parenting books looking to be informed really... i read then as 'another' opinion and like all opinions and books for that matter you can either take it or leave it.
i can see where u are coming from in what she said... but she can say whatever she wants at the end of the day lol... like we all can.
the_queen
20-11-2007, 21:15
She can say whatever she likes, but you'd think that a renowned author would get her facts straight before printing them in a published book.
KapowSchazam
20-11-2007, 21:16
I agree, she is seriously mis-informed :nono:
Pfft.. What a knob. I never found her that funny regardless. She obviously hasn't been exposed to the amazingly addictive power of MCN's.
Did you read in one of her first books that if you dont vaccinate your children, your an ENDANGERMENT TO THE COMMUNITY and vaccines ARE CRUCIAL to your child surviving these rampant killer diseases....The big dummy. :devil6:
LMAO
You word it so eloquently!! :iagree:
Wow really, how ignorant and uniformed a lot of things she says, i'm glad i haven't wasted my time reading her books.
Who is she anyway and why is she even considered some 'expert' on parenting...
Duchessa
20-11-2007, 22:05
Massive BOO from me too. She is next to anti bfing also. Very much a convenience, Happy Mummy = Happy Bubby etc kinda gal. Not my type. Stick to the cartoons Kaz.
:iagree:
She can say whatever she likes, but you'd think that a renowned author would get her facts straight before printing them in a published book.
Lollie86
20-11-2007, 22:19
Pfft....how incredibly mis-informed is she! :shame:
It's sad bc a lot of first time mums will read her books and think that everything she is saying is right and not even bother. I think she's the one who needs a swat on the nose with a rolled up newspaper! :laughing:
I think she's the one who needs a swat on the nose with a rolled up newspaper! :laughing:
:iagree:!!
I have those two books packed away somewhere. I haven't read Kid Wrangling yet. I don't think I'll bother if that's her attitude. :thumbsdown:
Pippi Longstocking
21-11-2007, 07:07
Massive BOO from me too. She is next to anti bfing also. Very much a convenience, Happy Mummy = Happy Bubby etc kinda gal. Not my type. Stick to the cartoons Kaz.
You spelled it wrong though, it's happeh mummeh = happeh babeh donchaknow! :p But I concur completely, stick to non-baby related stuff Kaz! I have her "Little Book of Beauty" and love it. She can be bloody funny and Up the Duff had potential because humour can be a fantastic tool to get a message across. But her lack of research and general ignorance certainly ruined it, eh?!
If you think you can do better, do better.
Oscar's mum
21-11-2007, 07:54
ugh, sorry but I can't stand her books - I thought Up The Duff was one of the stupidest books I have ever read. Thank goodness I didn't buy it and only got it out from the library.
Silly me went and bought the stupid $40 book - I read 10 pages and went this is rubbish:thumbsdown:
kiwibird27
21-11-2007, 08:08
I agree with her......disposables are quicker, think she writes it so that people who use disposables and choose to bottle feed for reasons of convience don't feel bad. Different books for different people i guess.
I actually quite liked the books, it seemed like it was written by a 'real mother' not by some expert with 17 different initials after their name so that makes them more qualified. :)
I agree with her......disposables are quicker, think she writes it so that people who use disposables and choose to bottle feed for reasons of convience don't feel bad. Different books for different people i guess.
People shouldn't be given wrong information to stop them feeling bad.
:D:laughing: Eloquently put as always, Shed!
People shouldn't be given wrong information to stop them feeling bad.
ButterflyMama
21-11-2007, 08:49
I must admit her anti-cloth stance did put me off a bit but I still love her sense of humour.
I laughed a lot at up the duff (wasn't a fan of her referring to birth as a "design flaw" though) but was hugely disappointed by kid wrangling - all serious, no funnies! In fact I got bored so quick I ditched it before finding the anti cloth bit!
TBH we didn't find cloth overly strenuous even before I discovered MCN's and "the new world order":laughing:
Lil X-men
21-11-2007, 09:29
Same here, I thought terry flats and pilchers were pretty easy really, before I discovered MCN's.
I reckon it is a damn shame she is not better informed to target a wider audience, sposie users, cloth users, BF'ers and bottlefeeders.
FishFace
21-11-2007, 09:33
her target audience is not cloth mummys.
There has to be books out there for mums who dont want to use cloth.
Its great it works for you and there are plenty of celebs and authors happy to help you put your message out there.
Granted her opinion of cloth is outdated but she never claimed to be a baby expert. Its a funny book written to be funny not the be all and end all of baby books.
So things don't have to be accurate just as long as they are funny...:detective:
Wow, interesting parenting philosophy. Not one I would use, but each to their own as they say.
FishFace
21-11-2007, 09:38
So things don't have to be accurate just as long as they are funny...:detective:
Wow, interesting parenting philosophy. Not one I would use, but each to their own as they say.
Shed, you dont have to change what I said to make me look stupid.
We can have a different opinion you know?
I didnt say it doesnt need to be accurate I am just saying that she wrote it as a funny book not a baby book.
If I read that about cloth in a proper information book I would be more angry but since its in a funnybook made to be read in jest I dont take it so seriously.
Wow its so hard to have an opinion round here.
Oscar's mum
21-11-2007, 09:40
I didnt say it doesnt need to be accurate I am just saying that she wrote it as a funny book not a baby book.
I disagree. I believe the book was meant to be accurate not a fictional book. Otherwise why would hospitals and GP's recommend that book?
FishFace
21-11-2007, 09:41
I disagree. I believe the book was meant to be accurate not a fictional book. Otherwise why would hospitals and GP's recommend that book?
really? I didnt know they did.
Oh well thats pretty bad then..
TBH I have never read her books..I thought they were just funny books aimed at making you laugh.
Most pregnancy and birth books I have read are all pretty negative about cloth - I don't think enough people know about MCN. Most people I have told about it had never even heard of it. But I reckon Kaz is a bit of a wally anyway :thumbsdown:
lukaelmo
21-11-2007, 11:10
I thought they were just funny books aimed at making you laugh.
lol, so did I, I thought they were to be taken with a grain of salt... they didn't though, make me laugh... I am a tough nut to crack :D.
She can say whatever she likes, but you'd think that a renowned author would get her facts straight before printing them in a published book.
It seems you don't have to have your facts right at all. Just give your own opinion and it'll be taken as the truth.:thumbsdown:
her target audience is not cloth mummys.
There has to be books out there for mums who dont want to use cloth.
Its great it works for you and there are plenty of celebs and authors happy to help you put your message out there.
Granted her opinion of cloth is outdated but she never claimed to be a baby expert. Its a funny book written to be funny not the be all and end all of baby books.
Regardless of who her target audience is, what she writes as "the truth" is far and beyond close to "the facts". Whether it is a humourous book or a serious book, what she writes is taken, by the majority of readers, as what it's really like. Studies are quite easily accessed through the internet now, and it wouldn't take too much time out of her busy life (or her editors) to check the details on what she was writing...... unless she is sponsored by Kimberly Clarke?
reAllytee
21-11-2007, 11:51
Ah well not suprising really.
Didnt bother with her books because well they didnt seem like the ones for me.
I don't mind Kaz as a writer. I think she writes very well. I was just very disappointed that she was so 'anti-cloth' when on the back is says:
Kaz Cooke delivers all the up-to-date reliable info, with no judegemental guruspeak, just a range of great solutions for you to choose from.
When the info she was giving was definitely not up-to-date, definitely not reliable.. and it was VERY judgemental against using cloth.
And judgemental against breastfeeding for longer than 12 months too..
Dodgy reasons to continue breastfeeding
*( point 4) Your baby is more than a year old and wants to wean, but you love breastfeeding too much to give it up.
How the hell do you MAKE a baby breastfeed if they want to wean??? Wake up Kaz...
FishFace
21-11-2007, 11:57
It seems you don't have to have your facts right at all. Just give your own opinion and it'll be taken as the truth.:thumbsdown:
Regardless of who her target audience is, what she writes as "the truth" is far and beyond close to "the facts". Whether it is a humourous book or a serious book, what she writes is taken, by the majority of readers, as what it's really like. Studies are quite easily accessed through the internet now, and it wouldn't take too much time out of her busy life (or her editors) to check the details on what she was writing...... unless she is sponsored by Kimberly Clarke?
I have already said this.
I thought it was just like a fiction book..I didnt think they were recommended as baby books.
mummyofchaise
21-11-2007, 12:14
Im not sure she meant to miss inform people i think it was written about HER pregnancy and what she has found. I found Up The Duff a great book and took what i wanted to take and left what i thought didn't suit me.
This argument is all because people always have their own opinion and i don't think new mums and dads will read it and just think well if Kaz Cooke said it it must be true. Look at all the silly information u get when your pregnant. U take what u think applies to u. Just my opinion.
MrsScatterbrain
21-11-2007, 12:21
I really love most of Kaz Cooke's books, particularly Real Gorgeous. I was shocked and disappointed when I read her stance on cloth a couple of months ago (and was contemplating writing to her so she could correct the info in further editions!).
In her defence, MCNs have come a huge way in the last couple of years, and perhaps Kidwrangling was written before these leaps and bounds were made? Also, although there is a huge world of MCN info and support available to us - it is not very visible to the general public. I had no idea what MCN where until I saw them hanging on a fellow Mum's washing line! (If I hadn't seen them, I'd still be using sposies!!)
Oscar's mum
21-11-2007, 12:24
Look at all the silly information u get when your pregnant.
Yes, but all those nutters that give us silly info don't go and write a book.
Yes, but all those nutters that give us silly info don't go and write a book.
:yes:
Purplebird
21-11-2007, 13:28
Back to the OP - this is not about whether we like Kaz Cooke or not. It's about the fact that an advice book has outdated, inaccurate advice in it regardless of who wrote it. That's just poor.
stellarella
21-11-2007, 13:44
Oh goodie...and she spews forth her numbskull drivel to mothers all over the world perpetuating the ridiculous myths about cloth nappies and reassuring sposie users everywhere that their choice is not destroying the environment!! Hooray for you Kaz! :rolleyes:
Maybe she is sponsored by Huggies or something. :detective:
Susan Mac
21-11-2007, 14:13
I thought her pregnancy book was quite funny, but didn't read kid-wrangling because I am at odds with some of her ideologies.
I'm embarking on compiling a book of activities and time and money saving ideas especially for SAHMs. I'm going to include a whole section on using MCN, because they save heaps of time and money.
I was quite disappointed having read Birth and Up the Duff that I never knew at all about MCN until Jack was about 6 months old.
her target audience is not cloth mummys.
There has to be books out there for mums who dont want to use cloth.
Its great it works for you and there are plenty of celebs and authors happy to help you put your message out there.
Granted her opinion of cloth is outdated but she never claimed to be a baby expert. Its a funny book written to be funny not the be all and end all of baby books.
But it is targeted at parents and i think its morally wrong to misinform people and make a joke out of such a serious issue.
I think we should write to her and encourage others too also.
Purplebird
21-11-2007, 14:39
I'm embarking on compiling a book of activities and time and money saving ideas especially for SAHMs. I'm going to include a whole section on using MCN, because they save heaps of time and money
That sounds great :yes:
shelle65
21-11-2007, 14:54
That sounds great :yes:
:iagree: I'd love a book with all that sort of info in it :yes:
TreeFrog
21-11-2007, 15:11
When I was pregnant with my first child, I read "Up the Duff" and at the time thought that it was funny. On my second reading (as a refresh :laughing:) when I was pregnant with my second, I actually found the book was scattered with old myths and I had to stop reading it as it made me a bit irritated. So, her stance on cloth nappies in "Kidrangling" does not surprise me (have you read her opinions on Attachment Parenting). We have "Kidwrangling" too (I naively bought it after the birth of my first child), but I only use it for the odd milestone check up nowadays. Otherwise it is great to prop the computer monitor up and "Up the Duff" is an excellent doorstop.
Lollie86
21-11-2007, 15:19
Otherwise it is great to prop the computer monitor up and "Up the Duff" is an excellent doorstop.
Good idea for those who dont know what to do with their copies! :laughing:
Oscar's mum
21-11-2007, 16:20
Good idea for those who dont know what to do with their copies! :laughing:
Ahhh so now my copy finally has a use:idea:
Ive not read the book, but i took Up the Duff as a funny guide, not a fact filled kinda thing.
With a name like UP THE DUFF or KID WRANGLING surely others aren't taking it seriousky either.
Kid Wrangling was published in 2004 when did MCN's have a break through??
HoopDeeDoo
21-11-2007, 16:31
kid rangling was written a very long time ago.
Nobody knew anything about MCNs back then, most of the recent converts to cloth (inc me) wouldn't have condered using terry flats, and a couple of years ago thought the same way as Kaz about using cloth nappies. So I don't think you can bag what she wrote all those years ago.
If there was a revised edition now, and she still included that misinformation then go for your life
But I for one know that when I when I was using disposables I justified it saying to myself I didn't have time for soaking and extra chemicals. Then I found out the truth
ShadyCharacter
22-11-2007, 11:25
Surprisingly, I didn't mind either book. As long as they are treated like a light hearted novel instead of sound, intelligent advice, they make a funny read.
It does bother me somewhat that first time pregnant woman and mothers take anything she has to say too seriously.
metalhead713
22-11-2007, 12:32
She obviously hasnt heard of the new modern cloth nappies nowdays, before I had dd I had no idea about mcn's and covers etc. etc. I thought it was ur typical cloth and safety pin:rolleyes:. She probably should have researched her info a bit better before publishing that, not only for giving out false information but just so she didnt look like a d!ck:laughing:.
Me, personally, am not on a certian side, I use both cloth, disposable, and covers:laughing: so im good on all ends. Most of the time I use disposables especially when ive got a busy day ahead of me but if im just lounging around home ill use a clothie.
KapowSchazam
22-11-2007, 12:57
have you read her opinions on Attachment Parenting
YES!!!! Absolutely abhorrent! I chucked out the copy I was given when I came across that paragraph :nono: :thumbsdown:
Mrs Potts
22-11-2007, 16:49
If you think you can do better, do better.
:iagree:
I also agree with your edit comment spoon. Yet somehow we can't help ourselves ;)
For everyone's information, Up The Duff was first published in 1999. Kid Wrangling in 2003. Well before MCN's were even dreamed up, I'm sure. (Happy to be corrected if this is not true.)
I absolutely loved both of her books. I was so sick of all the other pregnancy and birth books I had read that were almost Nazi-like in the way they "talked down" to the reader.
abbysmummy1
22-11-2007, 19:14
Does MCN mean modern cloth nappy? I'm new to this stuff and getting used to all the abbreviations:doh:. To be honest, I had good intentions to use cloth nappies and bought 24 when I was preggas. My dd was so little when she was born that I couldn't fit her clothes on her if I used a cloth nappy, so I used disposables. now that she is bigger, it is really hot where I live so am reluctant to put her in a cloth nappy. She has never, ever had nappy rash. Can I ask . . .why are cloth nappies supposedly so much better? Are they better for babies, if yes, why???:detective:
abbysmummy1
22-11-2007, 19:16
:thumbsup:Forgot to say also . ..just for the record . . .I ready about 30 different 'expert' books when I was pregnant and also read Up the Duff and it was my favourite. I didn't agree with everything she said, nor have I followed all of her advice . . I've a taken a bit from everywhere and mostly rely upon my own instincts.
Oscar's mum
22-11-2007, 22:09
Can I ask . . .why are cloth nappies supposedly so much better? Are they better for babies, if yes, why???:detective:
Check out the cloth threads for info about cloth:)
Harlequin
23-11-2007, 00:26
ugh, sorry but I can't stand her books - I thought Up The Duff was one of the stupidest books I have ever read. Thank goodness I didn't buy it and only got it out from the library.
So did I, unfortunately I bought mine.
I've never had any inclination to read her books and definitely won't now.
RedPanda
23-11-2007, 02:17
I think the book was written some time ago (someone said 2003?) when perhaps MCNs weren't as great or freely available.
ETA: For the record, I'm pretty sure Kaz Cooke breastfed her child for some time (I'll have to do some checking, but I think it was until 2 or something), so I don't think she's anti-bf.
RedPanda
23-11-2007, 02:46
N appies - One very cross woman accused me of saying that women who use cloth nappies are "morons". I was so shocked that anybody could interpret my work this way. What the nappies section says is that there are good reasons for choosing cloth, and good reasons for choosing disposables, and if you choose disposables, don't beat yourself up about it, especially if you have post-natal depression, or you find nappy washing a terrible drudgery that affects your enjoyment of life. Women who wash their own nappies should get a medal, and I mean it! I guess I have to realise that no matter how careful I am, people may see implied criticism or just be angry that I don't advocate only what they do.
Here is a direct quote from Kaz Cooke in an interview. I can't post the link because of BH rules.
Duchessa
23-11-2007, 08:43
You spelled it wrong though, it's happeh mummeh = happeh babeh donchaknow! :p
:devil6::devil6:
:iagree:
I also agree with your edit comment spoon. Yet somehow we can't help ourselves ;)
For everyone's information, Up The Duff was first published in 1999. Kid Wrangling in 2003. Well before MCN's were even dreamed up, I'm sure. (Happy to be corrected if this is not true.)
I think the book was written some time ago (someone said 2003?) when perhaps MCNs weren't as great or freely available.
The first MCN was available in 1998 but only known within a small community. It's only been the past 5 or so years that they have become more popular and known.
Cordelia
23-11-2007, 10:45
Personally, amidst all the heavy books with all the jargon and confusion, Kaz Cooke's was a breath of fresh air. Not necessarily for the facts (altho there was plenty there) but to help me relax abiout pregnancy and start to enjoy it. And to hear about it from a Mum's perspective.
I think her objective is for no one to judge anyone when it comes to parental choices. If you want to go the attachment parenting, cloth nappy stuff then great - but by no means judge mum's who choose to go another option...
Thanks Kaz Cooke - you helped me to see the human/Mum side of having a baby.
I think her objective is for no one to judge anyone when it comes to parental choices. If you want to go the attachment parenting, cloth nappy stuff then great - but by no means judge mum's who choose to go another option...
Thanks Kaz Cooke - you helped me to see the human/Mum side of having a baby.
interesting that you saw it that way, because I saw her as being incredibly judgemental herself about many aspects of what she was writing about.
Guys...
when I started this thread.. I wasn't downing Kaz Cooke or her writing style... I like it.
I was just shocked that the information she was handing out about cloth nappies was so 'innacutate' being that so many woman DO like her books... it would put people off even THINKING about using cloth.... and many of know that it was only by 'thinking about using cloth' that we discovered MCN's.
Everyone knows that words are used to place the reader in a biased position.
Words such as 'hefty chemicals'
'very hot water'
'savage bleaching'
'polluted water' when used in reference to a baby would OF COURSE put mums off... who wants that stuff near their baby???
So yes, while she says she isn't 'anti-cloth' the words she uses place definite bias against them.
Duchessa
23-11-2007, 12:09
If you want to go the attachment parenting, cloth nappy stuff then great - but by no means judge mum's who choose to go another option...
I don't believe that this thread is about judging other mums - more about judging the information given in the aforementioned book.
That is great that the book suited your belief system :thumbsup:
Harlequin
23-11-2007, 13:49
For what they are, a lighthearted view of one womans journey through pregnancy/motherhood, Kaz Cookes books are fine.
I think I disliked Up the Duff because it was recommended to me as a book that will help during my pregnancy. Obviously it did nothing of the sort. It was just one woman's opinion of certain aspects of pregnancy. It did nothing to help me when I had queries or worries.
So I guess if you just take it as it is, it's an ok book. If you think it's gonna alleviate any fears or answer any questions then prepare to be disappointed, as I was. ;)
charlen49
23-11-2007, 21:36
:rolleyes:for goodness sakes people the woman is a comedian..the books are not ment aschild rearing bibles..there are plenty of other books out there..if you dont like it dont buy it or read it..:chillpill:
:rolleyes:for goodness sakes people the woman is a comedian..the books are not ment aschild rearing bibles..there are plenty of other books out there..if you dont like it dont buy it or read it..:chillpill:
How do you know you don't like it before you buy it or read it, that doesn't even make sense.
The books are intended to be instructional so your comment about them not being meant as child rearing bibles isn't entirely accurate. You don't know who is reading it and how they interpret it, so its irresponsible to give out false information without a disclaimer saying its for comedic purposes only and therefore should not be taken as fact.
charlen49
24-11-2007, 08:42
How do you know you don't like it before you buy it or read it, that doesn't even make sense.
The books are intended to be instructional so your comment about them not being meant as child rearing bibles isn't entirely accurate. You don't know who is reading it and how they interpret it, so its irresponsible to give out false information without a disclaimer saying its for comedic purposes only and therefore should not be taken as fact.
But we all know she is a comedian and if you read the book blurb(like you do before picking the book..you dont just pick it off the shelves and buy it)..you can tell it has a comedic slant......there are thousands of other books out there..and i think sometimes (when you a first time mum) reading too much gets you more worked up..but anyhow im getting off the topic..this thread is about clothies..and i think the point has already been discussed in earliar posts...
ETA..i read the 'what to expect books' and they were done 20 yrs ago with a few updates..i have my copies from my first child..some thing i find useful and some things i think omg how outdated is that view..its all subjective..i dont go about wanting to cruicify the woman who wrote these books because i dont believe their info is correct..i go searching other sources.. i dont rely on one source...someone who does that all i want to say is 'goodluck!'
Duchessa
24-11-2007, 09:39
Kaz Cooke gives you the up-to-date lowdown on pregnancy, birht and coping when you first get home. No bossy-boots rules, just lots of cartoons and the soundest, sanest, wittiest advice you'll ever get. Everything you need to know about the scary parts, the funny parts and your private parts.
The book is supposedly firstly, a reference and secondly, a laugh.
So to find out what's what, I wrote Up the Duff. The researchers and I went to work, and then experts checked everything written about their special area and suggested new bits, and then the editor asked a gadzillion questions...
Not meant to be an accurate source of information?? :dizzy:
charlen49
24-11-2007, 09:53
No bossy-boots rules, just lots of cartoons and the soundest, sanest, wittiest advice you'll ever get
This thread is just going in circles, and will now be closed. :)
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