Getting desperate...

[My2LilRockStars]

I have gotten to a desperate stage and I am about to comence control crying with my almst 6 month old.

A bit of history before my questions...

He has been a catnapper during the day since birth. I cannot get more than 30 min/one sleep cycle out of him and have tried everything! On occasion I can pat him back off but its usually for 2-5 min only. There has been the rare occasion where he has gone back off for another 30min cycle, but I figure this isnt really teaching him to break the 30 min habit.
Ive read that the main theory behind CC is getting bub to fall aslepp by themselves, therefore they will stay asleep. DS CAN put himself off to sleep almost every time however this doesnt allow him to sleep past 30 min. I guess I need to CC purely for resettling reasons.

He has always gone off to sleep well but in the past week he has gotten WORSE and it takes me an hour to get him to sleep at night (day sleeps he is still going off fine by himself), plus he wakes at least twice in the night WIDE AWAKE - we can be awake for 2 hours. He doesnt cry, just kicks around and chats, then begins to grizzle when I persist in patting and keeping him still.

So basically I am becoming desperate and very sleep deprived. During the days he just grizzles CONSTANTLY no doubt through being tired.

Here are my quesitons...

As mentioned he puts himself off ok, its the wakeup after 30 min that I need to work on. When he wakes he is happy and kicks and chats. In the past I go straight in, turn him on his side, replace dummy and pat till he goes back off. Should I just leave him and then commence CC when he starts getting upset? (I assume it will take about 20min before he gets upset).

Can you do CC successfully with a dummy? I dont want to get rid of it. If yes, do I just put it back in each time I go in for the settling periods?

We also have a Fisher Price Aquarium on the cot which I play when he goes off to sleep. SHould I stop this as it could be a stimulation esp during resettling.

Im also after any encouragment / success stories to keep me going! :)

[~Bec~]

I will be watching this post very carefully as I have a very similar problem! :hugs: for you.

[My2LilRockStars]

Hugs to you too Becs999 have you started CC?

So far so good... I think!

This morning I let him cry, only had to leave him for 2 min and then I went and replaced dummy then he fell asleep and slept for 2 HOURS 10 MINS!!! :eek:

He was still a grumpy bum when he was up though :confused: prob from the terrible night sleep I guess. So I just put him back for his 2nd sleep - I left him for 2 min and he cried, I went in and replaced dummy and he settled straight away, then he cried again when I left so I waited the 4 min then went in and replaced dummy and he fell asleep. He just screamed out in his sleep and settled himself again straight away.

So its going ok I guess, Im just not sure what to do when/if he wakes after the 30 mins. He is wide awake and happy when he wakes as he feels like he ahs had enough sleep. I think its going to be a much different story in this situation. :(

[EsSjAy]

Hi there....
I told Becs999 about my fisher price aquarium toy...when i was giving her ideas...
(i love the thing...so does ds)
Controlled crying can be as strict or relaxed as you want it to be...
Your bub can have whatever he needs to help settle... A dummy, toy, blanky, light show etc....
I have sought the advice of a local sleep settling clinic and it is what works for you and bub....
Building sleep associations is the first start...
Firstly i worked out how long it took for ds to get tired from the end of his feed and it worked out to be 2 hrs pretty much on the dot... 1.5 hours after his feed i put him in his cot whilst he's happy and content.
I purchased a pram toy which has been 'safely' anchored to his cot which hangs above his body (and does not pose a choking hazard) which he can have a hit at.... I also put his aquarium fisherprice toy on....
If a baby is tired he/she will go to sleep or need help getting there.... Being 'overtired' is a harder struggle as working themselves up causes 'wake up' hormones to be released when the 'sleep hormones' are trying to do their job.... This is why it's important for them not to get overtired, then it's a long battle for them to accept the sleep and go with it....I know it's hard....
This is why he's in the cot before he's tired... He's happy relaxed playing, cooing away unitl it becomes a bit much and he's ready to nod of... He's not overstimulated... This pre sleeping time in the cot is actually relaxing him...
Anyway..... After about 20 mins roughly he starts to have a little grizzle, not much but a definite 'i'm getting ready for sleep'... I go straight in and unhook the toy and put it to the side... I cover him up snug in his blanket... roll him on his side, give him his dummy.... He watches his 'aquarium' with the music on low and he's out within 10 mins.... I stay there and give him a reassuring pat and a kiss and i leave the room and shut the door....
If he does wake up i go back in there and give him his dummy, reposition him if he needs and give him a pat... Exactly what your doing now...

Sleep associations are exactly that... His fisher price toy, his dummy etc but only for the purpose of settling to sleep, then they learn 'oh, it's that time...o.k'

My ds has 3, 2hr sleeps during the day and he's asleep by 8:30 at night and awake at 7am....

It's hard work because It's just time consuming and needs 100% commitment to follow it through and making sure 'daddy' does as well... as it can take up to 2 weeks for the settling routine to work...
My ds is a reflux boy as well.... We had a horrible first three months and he didn't know what sleep was... Once treatment had started and we were seeing a happier baby.... Sleep was the next priority....
I pretty much locked myself in the house with ds... Asked kindly that visits from family and friends be kept to a minimum so i could concentrate on him solely.... It worked.....Then i showed Daddy what to do.... It still worked.....

Sorry for the long post..:ecomcity:. I sooooo understand where you are coming from....:hugs:
If i can help in anyway, let me know....
I'm only too happy to help...:) x x x

I LOVE YOU SIGNATURE... HOW DID YOU DO THAT???? ITS GORGEOUS..........

[My2LilRockStars]

A friend did my sig for me - its great isnt it?! Im hopeless at that stuff!

Thanks for that advice. I have done alot of reading on CC and form what I can gather MOST ppl do it as a way to get bub to sleep and then once they learn to put themselves to sleep they sleep really well. This is where I am confused as my bub CAN put himself to sleep after a bit of a grizzle I usually go in and give dummy - just like you do it - however he wakes after exactly 30 min! :banghead:

So I was just a bit confused as to when I go in to resettle him after he has had 30 min sleep. Do I let him kick around and chat for as long as he is happy and go in when he has cried for 2 min?
Does the 2,4,6,8 etc min begin from when he starts crying or when I leave the room? Coz sometimes he doesnt cry as soon as I leave.

My questions about the dummy and aquarium stemmed from a friend who went to sleep school and was told to get rid of all stimuli in cot and dummy as he was only waking every time dummy popped out.

I think I undertsand what your getting at - use the aquarium as a sleep cue, not a way to put him to sleep. I was turning on aquarium every time he woke as a way to get him back to sleep (I read bub will only go back to sleep in the same fashion that they went to sleep). So perhaps I should put it on while he is still awake so he knows its bed time and then make sure it is off when he is still awake so he falls asleep without it and then wont need it when he wakes again????

Had a shocker of an afternoon - he went down fine but woke after 30 min. I then did CC for over an hour and he was so upset. He began to slow the crying down at the 8 and 10 mins but I ended up having to stay with him till he fell asleep coz he was just soooo tired and I could see he needed it. I felt it was enough CC for day one!

I am also doing it right now he is screaming in bed - I am going in after 4 min. Wish me luck!

Edited to add... he has fallen asleep after me going in at the 6 min mark. Thats the best its been for days. However Im sure he is going to wake many times this evening. Last night he woke 7 times after he fell asleep he didnt get into a 'deep sleep' till about 10.30pm.

[~Bec~]

DS slept for a whole hour this morning :smiliedance:

He woke after the first 30 mins and grizzled a bit but fell asleep again. He was wrapped and hadn't managed to escape on that occassion.

[My2LilRockStars]

More questions...sorry!

Here is a more specific example of what Im on about. As mentioned in my previous post it only took 6 min of crying and he was asleep. He then woke after 40 min. I left him until crying started and I went in, turned him on his side, gave dummy and left. He settled for 1 min then cried out again. So I waited 2 min and he settled again. If he wakes again soon which I quarantee he will, do I start off with 2 min again or go straight to waiting 4 min?

Ok so he woke again as expected, I continued CC until he vomited from so much crying. We are now starting again at 2 min....

I think this is too hard :(

[EsSjAy]

Oh hun....
I know it's hard... It's sounds like you are doing a great job...

Are you familiar with 'sleep cycles'?
Babies at this age 'once' they have fallen asleep will sleep in waves... The first is light sleep which very quickly graduates into deep sleep but this only lasts around 20 mins and then reverts back into light sleep.... This is the time where they are likely to wake... Generally they do wake up because they don't yet know how to go back to sleep on their own so that's where you step in and give him the cues to re settle and promote to go back to sleep...

My first bit of advice.... Work on what cues/associations you want to teach him to relate to sleep and keep doing this even if he wakes up after 30 mins... For the first 3 days you will feel like it's going nowhere but i assure you what you are doing is teaching him how to sleep and how to remain there... By day 3 you should find it easier and he'll more than likely be staying asleep longer and getting to sleep or back to sleep easier.... Just keep with it....
Don't plan on outings and keep visitors to a minimum so you can rest when he does, you can concentrate on what you are doing and more importantly you can spend time with your other little one...

As far as the crying goes... I wouldn't leave it long at all... He doesn't know how to sleep properly yet and needs to be taught.... crying can cause over tiredness (with a racing heartbeat) which exacerbates the problem.....

I do believe in CC to a point but as i have learned from the wonderful nurses at the sleep/settling clinic local to me.... Crying it out is not always the answer and i couldn't let ds cry for more than a few minutes otherwise he would reflux and that's painful enough...We had to find another way and we did... Rosebud Sleep/settling clinic in Victoria assesses bub & mum first for a day or 2. This shows them where the problems are and then work out the best way to resolve the issues.
My case was the same as yours... Getting to sleep was o.k, it was just staying there.... there advice was to immediately go in the room if he starts stirring and re do the settling cues etc. Sometimes it felt i was going in there every 15 to 30 mins but by the end of the 2nd day into the third i had a different bub....
Then it's all about sticking with it and fine tuning so to speak:laughing:

Hope i'm helping... If your unsure of anything or want to PM me, please feel free....

x x

[~Bec~]

If/when bubs wakes up after 30 mins during the day I don't do CC because he's awake and alert.

Night times have been getting better, doing the bath, bottle, bed routine. He does grizzle every so often and we need to go in and comfort him.

We are going camping this weekend so everything will probably go out the window. :(

[EsSjAy]

Babies vs camping..... It's all yours hun....
I know so many that do it but i'm too scared....

I'm glad your little man is getting into a routine...
Who knows, camping may be the answer....
anything's possible....

Have fun :thumbsup:

[Nan]

Hi Harleysmum.
The first thing that came to my mind when I read your post was that if your son is waking up during the night and staying awake for up to 2 hours, then he must be getting too much day sleep. Have you tried cutting down on his day sleep so that he sleeps longer/more at night??
The other thing was that waking every 30 mins could be habit....which can be broken.....I would still try CC if he wakes after 30 mins. as if you feel he needs more sleep, then he needs more sleep! It could also be a sign of something medical like reflux. Have you had him checked by a GP to be sure he doesn't have reflux issues that are waking him up?

Just some thoughts..........