View Full Version : Is formula 'artifical feeding' ?
I tend to listen to the radio as I breastfeed and this morning heard a very interesting discussion on 702ABC (Sydney).
The talkback discussion aparently started about Vitamin D deficiency in children and grew into a discussion on the conflicting advice mothers are given on whether children should have solids introduced at 4 or 6 months.
At the end of the discussion the president of the Australian Breastfeeding Association was invited to give the 'definitive' answer to this question. I can't remember her name (it may have been Lee?), but in answering the question, she referred to bottle feeding/formula as 'artificial feeding'.
Well, the host, Ms Trioli was gob-smacked at this remark !!!
Has anyone else heard the ABA refer to formula as artifical ?? Personally, I am 100% BF and plan to continue. I also feel very strongly that BF is the preferable way to feed a child and is superior to formula. However, I don't think it helps mothers who are using formula to have it referred to in this way. It has such a negative connotation (sp ?) and can only serve to alienate them. Mothers need all the support they can get !!!
I had a midwife call it that in hospital, when my DS needed a supplement feed. He is breastfed now. It is not a nice term at all :(
Goosie22
27-02-2006, 22:03
Artificial Infant Milk Formula/Artificial Breastmilk substitute Formula that is what it is. It is a man made substance.
so I suppose the formula is artificial feed rather than the activity artificial feeding.
I guess it is artificial in the sense that it is not 'natural' human milk, it is manufactured, but it is not a very nice term to use. I think it is important to remember that other mums are just trying to do the best they can, and to mindful that we do not make each other feel bad, and I think referring to ff in this way wouldnt certainly make some mums feel upset, for some mums it just didnt happen, and whilst fully supporting bf, i sometimes get a bit tired of woman making other woman feel inferior because they were not or did not want to continue with bf, I am not referring to any members of the hub, just speaking generally.
Ana Gram
27-02-2006, 22:43
technically formula is artifical but still not a nice way of saying it.
Tea Lady
27-02-2006, 22:45
It makes it sound like you're feeding your kid one of those toy plastic hamburgers - like it would be indigestible or something :eek:
As far as I'm aware formula is based on cows milk or soy milk or another natural substance so it's not man-made in the way i would normally use the word, but I suppose there needs to be a term to distinguish it from bf. Maybe they could come up with something a little less plastic hamburgerish?
Ana Gram
27-02-2006, 22:50
But since the comment was made by the president of the Australia Breastfeeing Association, I can't say i am all that suprised
the_queen
27-02-2006, 22:53
(Trying hard not to be rude/hurtful)
I think the point she's trying to make is that it's kinda like an adult drinking "protein shakes" or existing on vitamin supplements - technically and nutritionally you're getting all the necessary requirements, but it's not "natural" or "ideal".
I was both a breast- and a formula-feeding mum, and I didn't find it offensive or hurtful.
It makes it sound like you're feeding your kid one of those toy plastic hamburgers - like it would be indigestible or something :eek:
As far as I'm aware formula is based on cows milk or soy milk or another natural substance so it's not man-made in the way i would normally use the word, but I suppose there needs to be a term to distinguish it from bf. Maybe they could come up with something a little less plastic hamburgerish?
I think formula feeding or bottle feeding are already fine enough descriptions to distinguish it from breast feeding, 'Artificial Feeding' is just another way of putting others down imo.
LOL and I agree with you about the toy hamburger thing!
hillbaby5
27-02-2006, 22:59
Some women arent fortunate enough to be able to breastfeed by no fault of their own so put it down is not fair I believe that all great mums do the best they can with wat they have...!!
\ps I breastfed both mine and loved it
because I could and i chose to
I also believe that if the mum doesnt want to feed well thats her choice the baby needs to be held in comfy relaxed arms not stressed I dont wanna do this arms get me!!!
technically formula is artifical but still not a nice way of saying it.
exactly. it is what it is!
we all have to hear things we dont like. as a breastfeeding mum, i dont like how "some" people can make me feel i shouldnt be feeding my baby in public etc. if i have to, then i have to.
i dont wanna start a b/f debate. but, yes it may seem not nice, but its not like we pull formula out of our bodies or anything like that.
it is artificial.. but without it some bubs cant be fed.
Frazzled
27-02-2006, 23:01
It still never ceases to amaze me how women can make each other feel such guilt when we are all going through such similar things and knowing how it feels. While I agree that bfding is definitely the preferred option, I tend to agree with Tea Lady about the plastic hamburgers. Or maybe if your home robot was feeding the baby, it could be classified as 'artificial'?
Somehow I don't think my breast milk was 'superior' when my son took three weeks to gain 50 grams.
rynosmum
27-02-2006, 23:07
It still never ceases to amaze me how women can make each other feel such guilt when we are all going through such similar things and knowing how it feels.
I completely agree !:yelclap:
Embrace the fact that we are all mums to beautiful babies. We all feed our babies in the best way for ourselves and our children.
Why try and intimidate others by saying that any way is better than any other ? :confused:
hillbaby5
27-02-2006, 23:09
that is the most honest thing I ve read on this site well done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I completely agree !:yelclap:
Embrace the fact that we are all mums to beautiful babies. We all feed our babies in the best way for ourselves and our children.
Why try and intimidate others by saying that any way is better than any other ? :confused:
Tea Lady
27-02-2006, 23:09
Ooooooh I'm so scared about where this thread is going!!!:eek: I'm off to bed :D
hillbaby5
27-02-2006, 23:12
Y be scared
as a mum you make the rules by the advice your given take wat you need leave wat you dont!!
thats they way ive always done it and it works for me:hugs:
Ooooooh I'm so scared about where this thread is going!!!:eek: I'm off to bed :D
lol yes it has that feel to it..
madvoice
27-02-2006, 23:50
I've had a CHN respond to me with that "artificial" thing. Well, I responded, no, I'm not feeding my child plastic. I think Formula Feeding is a much nicer term. This is coming from someone who breastfed for 4 months then the cow dried up. I'm not too keen on the way this thread is going either.
YEah, I suppose people dont go around saying I am "real feeding" or I am "natural feeding" my child do you?
Tealady, do you use your artificial toatser for those hamburgers?:p
Notchalk
27-02-2006, 23:55
Hate to say it guys, but as a Midwife I have only ever heard formula *formally* refered to as ABM or BMS...
Artificial Baby Milk
or
Breast Milk Substitute
The former is a slightly older term, but I've only been a Midwife since 2001, so it isn't that old... and BMS is probably the more politically correct way of saying 'formula feeding'. When bottle feeding formula you are artificially feeding (ie bottles are plastic, teats are rubber, silicon, etc, not boobs) artificial baby milk (not human milk). No fluff, no warm fuzzies - it is what it is. Women choose or in sadder circumstances, are forced to use this artificial milk for their babies, and whatever the terminology used shouldn't affect their guilt status if they are happy with their decision.
JMHO :)
Jo
the_queen
28-02-2006, 07:53
whatever the terminology used shouldn't affect their guilt status if they are happy with their decision.
I totally agree Jo! I tried everything to continue breastfeeding, did the best I could to continue, but it just wouldn't happen. I don't feel guilty about it, because I know I tried everything before giving it up. I think a lot of mothers confuse "guilt" with "grief", I know I did.
I think that is a horrid term. Many women are unable to breast feed and shouldn't be made to feel like they are mistreating their babies.
I agree that it isn't a nice way of putting things, but really it isn't used by everyday people in everyday situations. Yes the ABA might use it and health care professionals but it's not like every second mother on here is saying 'Oh you artificially feed'. The medical profession uses so many terms that aren't very nice, but I guess that's just the way it is and I don't think the ABA would change it's mind about using the term any time soon.
Hey E, good point, it is what it is, and there is no point sugar coating it, but i think out in the real world, it is not a term that is used regulary anyway, i mean i dont know anyone who says 'oh are you bf or giving them a breast milk substitiute?' i guess it is kind of medical terminology. i just think that although most mums who are comfortable with their choice wouldnt be bothered by it at all, there are others who are really grieving their inability to bf, and i guess that is why i tend to think there are noicer ways of saying things.
Tea Lady
28-02-2006, 10:17
Tealady, do you use your artificial toatser for those hamburgers?
I did try, but I couldn't fit it in the slots. I think I'll try putting each bun in separately next time. I did have a plastic hamburger in the night when I got a bit peckish tho - all this talk of artificial food was making me hungry!!
BTW for those non-brissie people, Jessie gave me a cute plastic toaster at the last meet up (don't worry, Katie and I aren't on some kind of cyber-drug trip :) )
Goosie22
28-02-2006, 12:41
As far as I'm aware formula is based on cows milk or soy milk or another natural substance so it's not man-made in the way i would normally use the word
I said that it is man made because it is not a whole food it is altered by man ie dried cows milk powder somethings taken out somethings put in. Like if you eat a piece of rump steak it is a whole food where as mince is altered and considered lesser.
I agree also that if you use a substitute and you are happy with your decision to use it then accept it as that is what it is refered to even by the companies that manufacture it. They are party to the international code for marketing Artificial Infant Milk/Breastmilk Substitutes.
It is more of a medical term though like miscarrage for example is refered to as complete or incomplete abortion which dosn't sit well with non medical people because of the emotional element envolved, but that is the diagnosis recorded.
In everyday settings though most people call it Formula.
jarrahsmumma
28-02-2006, 15:26
I had massive problems BF. I use breastmilk substitute. I am cool with that, that is what it is.
LittleBoysRock
28-02-2006, 15:47
Some women arent fortunate enough to be able to breastfeed by no fault of their own so put it down is not fair I believe that all great mums do the best they can with wat they have...!!
Thanks Hillbaby5 for standing up for women out there like me!
I was somebody who really wanted to breastfeed believing it was best for baby and also good for bonding and contracting of the uterus etc. I actually never considered formula feeding at all.
I tried to breastfeed and I didnt get any milk. After days of my baby screaming as he was hungry I asked DH to buy formula. Once he was fed he was fine, and has been on formula ever since.
Boy did I hear about it though from my Mum, DH and MIL. I was made to feel so guilty for trying to do what I believed was best for my baby at the time.
I dont regret starting DS on formula as he is a very happy and healthy baby. What I do resent though is the negetive conatations people have of formula fed babies.
What I would ask of people is please dont be so judgemental!
Btw...sorry this post is so long, as you can probably tell this is an issue close to my heart!
I think the point she's trying to make is that it's kinda like an adult drinking "protein shakes" or existing on vitamin supplements - technically and nutritionally you're getting all the necessary requirements, but it's not "natural" or "ideal".
I think that's a great analogy, Queenie. I also agree that it isn't the most pleasant term and certainly doesn't conjure up any images of a mother loving and nurturing her baby :rolleyes: !
Like Goosie said though, the official term for miscarriage is abortion. And what about women who lose babies because of an 'incompetent cervix'. :eek: There are some horrid medical terms out there and they aren't used every day and certainly aren't designed to make anyone feel guilty.
I couldnt BF my first, but BF my second and third!!
And I am proud.... I did what I could, and my 3 babies were all healthy..
Thats what was important to me!;)
Mummabear
28-02-2006, 17:20
The more I find out about the ABA the more I dislike them :shame: . Do they intentionally want people to think they're a bunch of single minded, hard ar$e preachers or is that just a side effect of being so obnoxious :thumbsdown:
the_queen
28-02-2006, 17:26
I guess when you're passionate about a really important issue, sometimes you can come across as being single-minded and obnoxious.
I know someone who is training to be an ABA Counsellor and she told me that one of the 'rules' is that they are not allowed to force their opinions onto anyone. She said that is one of the hardest things because generally to do that job (which is voluntary) you do feel very passionately about the cause.
And didn't we just establish that artificial feeding is an official term? That shouldn't be held against an individual who has used the term in her 'official' capacity.
Ana Gram
28-02-2006, 17:36
Like Goosie said though, the official term for miscarriage is abortion. And what about women who lose babies because of an 'incompetent cervix'. :eek: There are some horrid medical terms out there and they aren't used every day and certainly aren't designed to make anyone feel guilty.
I always thought they called it "spontaneous abortion"
Goosie22
28-02-2006, 17:39
The more I find out about the ABA the more I dislike them :shame: . Do they intentionally want people to think they're a bunch of single minded, hard ar$e preachers or is that just a side effect of being so obnoxious :thumbsdown:
As an oranisation ABA put a lot of hard work into helping mothers and babies to get the best, it might seem preachy or obnoxious to some however if your looking for the support/answers regarding breastfeeding they have the info to help its just a matter of sparing the time to implementing the advice?:)
I always thought they called it "spontaneous abortion"
oh yeah, sorry Chelle.. it probably is. I was just focusing on the 'abortion' bit because it's the word that most people have an emotive reaction to. :)
Ana Gram
28-02-2006, 17:55
I think there is a lot of who ha around that term though, it's like they are trying to make it sound like a party :thumbsdown:
I'm confused Chelle. Which word sounds like a party? :confused:
Ana Gram
28-02-2006, 18:47
spontaneous, I was always made to believe something spontaneous was fun. And in this instance it clearly isn't.
I think it's absolutely disgusting that the first thing you get asked when you have a baby is Did you have natural birth? or Are you breast feeding? I think the most important question should be, Are you and your baby healthy???? :banghead:
jarrahsmumma
28-02-2006, 19:05
Same as the stupid questions "Is he a good baby" (No hes evil..)
"Does he sleep through?" (No he is 12 weeks old :mad: )
Same as the stupid questions "Is he a good baby" (No hes evil..)
"Does he sleep through?" (No he is 12 weeks old :mad: )
Heheh No she's a pain in the but, you want her??? :laughing:
hello all .
i am quite new to this forum.
i have enjoyed reading your posts.
i did find mammabears offensive. i benefitted so much from the help and support of my local ABA. they are wonderful
i think the ABA refer to formula as artificial milk just to make the point that breastfeeding is the natural way to feed a baby, We're mammals and that's what our mammary glands are for!:)
mummabear, The ABA works hard to help women who want to breastfeed. Research shows many benefits of breastfeeding - in individual situations breastfeeding may not be the best or preferred choice. however as a species it is the way we have been designed to feed our babies.
and finally , who said artificial was bad? computers are 'artificial' yet we wouldn't all be here without them!
I agree, the ABA is great, its workers and volunteers go out of their way to helping many woman who want to bf, and who thought it may not be possible, Im sure there are probably the odd one or two people there who may be extreme, but on a whole I think they are tops!:thumbsup:
spontaneous, I was always made to believe something spontaneous was fun. And in this instance it clearly isn't.
oh.. gotcha! ;) good point!
Mamaduke
28-02-2006, 20:19
Comments like the one made re/artificial feeding is the exact reason why, when I had trouble breastfeeding, that I just gave up...I did not want to go anywhere near the Australian Breastfeeding Association...it sounded way too militant, hard headed and one-eyed...so comment like this are doing more harm than good in my opinion!:thumbsdown:
Ana Gram
28-02-2006, 20:43
Comments like the one made re/artificial feeding is the exact reason why, when I had trouble breastfeeding, that I just gave up...I did not want to go anywhere near the Australian Breastfeeding Association...it sounded way too militant, hard headed and one-eyed...so comment like this are doing more harm than good in my opinion!:thumbsdown:
You and I are two peas in a pod sometimes! I completley agree!
hello all .
i am quite new to this forum.
i have enjoyed reading your posts.
i did find mammabears offensive. i benefitted so much from the help and support of my local ABA. they are wonderful
i think the ABA refer to formula as artificial milk just to make the point that breastfeeding is the natural way to feed a baby, We're mammals and that's what our mammary glands are for!:)
mummabear, The ABA works hard to help women who want to breastfeed. Research shows many benefits of breastfeeding - in individual situations breastfeeding may not be the best or preferred choice. however as a species it is the way we have been designed to feed our babies.
and finally , who said artificial was bad? computers are 'artificial' yet we wouldn't all be here without them!
Just because it is the natural way doesn't make it the best way, The most natural thing that a mother can do is care for her baby and if she can't (for a many number of reasons) breast feed, it in no way makes her less a mother than those who can!!
Ok this is getting ridiculous.
Please keep this on topic.
Has anyone got anything more to add about the ABA using the term 'artificial feeding'?
Just because it is the natural way doesn't make it the best way, The most natural thing that a mother can do is care for her baby and if she can't (for a many number of reasons) breast feed, it in no way makes her less a mother than those who can!!
i agree with E, this is just silly, please try to keep to the point, or along the lines of it at least, if you read the post you are commenting on, she actually says at the end 'who said artificial was bad? computers are artificial, yet we wouldnt be here without them' so what is your point? the poster was trying to be supportive to all mums!
please there is no need to try and start arguments.
i agree with E, this is just silly, please try to keep to the point, or along the lines of it at least, if you read the post you are commenting on, she actually says at the end 'who said artificial was bad? computers are artificial, yet we wouldnt be here without them' so what is your point? the poster was trying to be supportive to all mums!
please there is no need to try and start arguments.
How is it not keeping to the point?, I thought the point was whether formula is artifical feeding??? I was pointing out that what is natural isn't always right for everyone, sometimes an alternate option is needed. I wasn't trying to start an argument, I just don't think bringing up the whole mammals thing was appropriate, and formula as a comparrison to computers???
I would like to add, that while we have probably all heard stories about "breast nazis", the ABA women that I actually met and talked to were absolutely lovely and passionate about helping parents in all parenting situations. I think they realise that how you feed your baby is actually only one facet of the parenting spectrum.
I have actually bottle fed my baby in an ABA meeting (I was in the process of weaning her to formula at around 6 - 7 months) and no-one battered an eyelid.:D
I think that artificial feeding (like "failure to thrive" :mad: ) is one of those horrible medical terms that is used all the time by professionals, but can upset ppl. I don't think that we are going to get them to change it because it *might* upset *some* ppl. And I don't think that it will become widely used by mothers because we are sensitive to how it might make another mother feel.
Cheers
whoa :shame:
i did not say that natural=best in fact i said in individual cases it may not be, i also said artificial does not=bad.
i take offence that you insult an organisation that does good work. you do not have to use it but it helps many mothers who do have troubles and want to perservere with breastfeeding.
i'm sorry i don't know your individual situations, perhaps you have had a bad experience with ABA, my experience with them was all good.
ThomasMum
28-02-2006, 21:51
I don't feel threatened by this phrase to be honest.
My son is a formula baby since he was 4 months old. And guess what he's the most healthy, happy and brainy child! And that my friends, thats all that matter to me :D :thumbsup:
whoa :shame:
i did not say that natural=best in fact i said in individual cases it may not be, i also said artificial does not=bad.
i take offence that you insult an organisation that does good work. you do not have to use it but it helps many mothers who do have troubles and want to perservere with breastfeeding.
i'm sorry i don't know your individual situations, perhaps you have had a bad experience with ABA, my experience with them was all good.
I have NO problem with ABA, I have used ABA and my experience was FANTASTIC, they helped me a great deal and that is why I am still breast feeding today, I do however respect that it doen't always work out that way for others though!
Yay TM
reclaim the thread:yelclap:
what i was trying to express in my post was;
i don't have a problem with the term artificial milk, i don't see it as a judgement of formula, just a term used to differentiate it from breastfeeding.
i see breastfeeding as the 'natural' way mammals have evolved to feed their young- again not a judgement, just the way i understand it.
i certainly don't think anyone is less of a mother because of how they feed their baby.
I would explain also what I said in my previous post but it has been edited so obviously it doesn't matter what I think!!!
OK
It's time to take five.
Several posts have been edited here tonight on BOTH sides. And at least three moderators have posted "calm down messages". Please keep to the point without throwing up accusations and emotional arguments.
Some of you that are bickering are actually saying pretty much the same thing.
So please, back to the topic and be respectful of other ppl's opinions.
Cheers
Notchalk
28-02-2006, 23:38
spontaneous, I was always made to believe something spontaneous was fun. And in this instance it clearly isn't.
Actually, spontaneous refers to the fact that it wasn't a forced abortion. It aborted by itself, if you know what I mean.
Jo
Ana Gram
01-03-2006, 00:00
I know, it's just the word spontanteous that irks me as I associate the word with a happy, positive feeling.
Basically, for me the word spontaneous has a "woo hoo I've shaved my head" kind of feeling to it (shaving my head is a good fun thing for me), and it's just this phrase that makes me cringe.
Mamaduke
01-03-2006, 00:31
spontaneous self combustion....that's not fun either:thumbsdown:
reAllytee
01-03-2006, 01:30
Hahaha Carly :laughing: Actually should i be laughing at that :o
Well i have to say i find it offensive & have never had a midwife, lactation consultant, doctor or CHN ever call it anything like this but maybe i have been lucky (?).
I understand the whole medical type reason for it to be called this but i just dont understand why someone from the ABA would use it.
I certainly dont feel upset about it from guilt. Because in no way do i feel guilty about my boy being happy healthy & well fed, something i couldnt provide for him with bf.
I just find it sad that we cant all understand that each mum is doing the best for her child whichever way she has birthed, fed or nutured.
Goosie22
01-03-2006, 10:01
I just find it sad that we cant all understand that each mum is doing the best for her child whichever way she has birthed, fed or nutured.
I think everyone can understand, its not about that it is just what it is called and it isn't meant to be either respectful or disrespectful. It isn't a personal attach on Artificially feed babies or mothers. The lady from ABA is just talking in Jargon from a Health perspective if you were to go to an ABA meeting like xkwzit said no judgements are made, they are just really interested in helping women and their families to be sucessful Breastfeeders if that is what you want to do, if you don't then that is up to you not them:banghead: .
Health/Medical terms are not considered in friendly terms ie a baby that is smaller than expected when it utero is discussed as being growth retarded.
On the "Spontaneous: topic.
Spontaneous Vaginal Delivery or Spontaneous Breach Delivery..............Not so much laughing there either:o .
melfunction
01-03-2006, 10:16
On the "Spontaneous: topic.
Spontaneous Vaginal Delivery or Spontaneous Breach Delivery..............Not so much laughing there either:o .
Hmmm, what about "spontaneous combustion"??? :confused: :eek:
Sorry, I know this is completely off topic, but I couldn't help myself :o
Goosie22
01-03-2006, 10:18
Sorry, I know this is completely off topic, but I couldn't help myself :o
Niether could I :D but someone already said that one.
melfunction
01-03-2006, 10:21
I suppose it just goes to show I don't take much notice of all the sh*t then doesn't it :o
Freddyboy
01-03-2006, 22:09
What I don't get it why do people get up in arms about discussions like this and feel they have to post explaining why they couldn't breastfeed or that their babies are healthy.
Why does it have to turn into an us and them sort of mentality?
The use of the word is not an attack on any individuals or groups....it's a word being used in its appropriate context.
Artificial -
1. Made by humans; produced rather than natural.
2. Brought about or caused by sociopolitical or other human-generated forces or influences: set up artificial barriers against women and minorities; an artificial economic boom.
2. Made in imitation of something natural; simulated: artificial teeth.
3. Not genuine or natural: an artificial smile.
The term artificial feeding is just that, a term, what you read into it and apply to yourself is no ones fault but your own :)
misskittyfantastico
01-03-2006, 22:50
I agree Freddyboy, I BF and FF, am informed about both and have CONFIDENCE in what I'm doing .
Let's not criticise, let's just trust in ourselves and our babies:yelclap: :yelclap:
Sorry off topic I know but I just had an urge.
Ana Gram
01-03-2006, 23:45
I actually don't think it is so much the term itself but perhaps the context it is used in. More often than not, you will probably find that the women who do get riled up and feel the need to explain away, it could be because they have had unpleasant run ins with extreme breast feeding advocates. When I say extreme, I mean the ones who will try any tactic to get women to breastfeed which guilt is usually the first one thrown at us.
And sometimes these kinds of people hide behind the ABA which leads to resentment of ABA unfortunately.
Pippi Longstocking
02-03-2006, 08:09
Wow Chellegoth, you must have been to a fair few ABA meetings to have seen that many "extreme breastfeeding activists"! Me, I have been to a few and there have only ever been lovely helpful knowledgeable women there. I have also rung them for advice and been offered nothing but support. I worry that people who spout negative untruths about the ABA are doing such a disservice to women who may need help but be too scared to reach out after hearing these horror stories from women with their own feeding issues. The ABA is The Australian Breastfeeding Association - of course they are very pro breastfeeding! We don't get upset that the RSPCA only support animals and not humans, eh.
I bottlefed my fourth child. I used artificial baby milk to do this. I didn't need it to be called "happy healthy perfectly OK baby juice" to make me feel better. It was artificial baby milk. I wish I had've gone to the ABA because in hindsight, I know I could have breastfed my son. I do have guilts about bottle-feeding. So I understand perfectly the guilty and defensive reactions. But I can own that. I don't "blame" breastfeeding advocates for "making" me feel bad. I made my choice, my son is perfectly healthy and I can move on.
I know what Chellegoth is saying as I took have come across some women like this. She wasn't saying that everyone who breastfeeds is extreme, just like in any situation there are people who feel that their way is the right and only way.
reAllytee
02-03-2006, 09:05
I know what Chellegoth is saying as I took have come across some women like this. She wasn't saying that everyone who breastfeeds is extreme, just like in any situation there are people who feel that their way is the right and only way.
Yep thats how i took what she had to say also.
moonblossom
02-03-2006, 09:20
It wasn't long ago when breastfeeding moms were looked down on, and now they are trying to turn it around so bottle feeding moms look bad.
Why don't everyone just leave people to their own devices and choose which is best for them and their baby. yeah sure I'm a big breastfeeding fan, but that is MY choice. I don't look at a mother who is bottle feeding her child and think "Oh she should be breastfeeding" just as I dont expect someone saying I should be bottle feeding when i'm breastfeeding.
This society has to constantly pick on us mothers, who are just trying to do our best. Its a hard enough job already being mum's, we don't need Breast feeding avocates to shove what is right or what is wrong down our throats.
Do what is right for you peoples, because even if you do everything by the book, your still going to be judged wrong by some people :S
Cheers
Ana Gram
02-03-2006, 09:24
Wow Chellegoth, you must have been to a fair few ABA meetings to have seen that many "extreme breastfeeding activists"! Me, I have been to a few and there have only ever been lovely helpful knowledgeable women there. I have also rung them for advice and been offered nothing but support. I worry that people who spout negative untruths about the ABA are doing such a disservice to women who may need help but be too scared to reach out after hearing these horror stories from women with their own feeding issues. The ABA is The Australian Breastfeeding Association - of course they are very pro breastfeeding! We don't get upset that the RSPCA only support animals and not humans, eh.
Actually I don't recall saying that extreme breastfeeding advocates were part of the ABA. I said they hide behind them to justify the way they bully women. Nor did I say that all breast feeding advocates were extreme as they are not.
No need to worry about me thanks, as I did not spout any negative untruths about the ABA. If you have neve encountered one of these types of breast feeding advocates, lucky you but they are out there and they can get very nasty.
Pippi Longstocking
02-03-2006, 09:43
But people keep missing the point! Breastfeeding advocates do strongly encourage women to breastfeed because breast is best. It is an unarguable fact. :banghead: Breastmilk is better for babies than formula. In some cases, women cannot breasfeed. Also a fact. But that does not mean that formula is better for baby. Obviously, formula feeding is a far better choice than the baby starving. But the ideal milk for human babies is human milk.
This is one of those debates that just never get anywhere. People allow their own feelings of guilt/self-righteousness/ego to prevent them from really hearing what other pople are saying.
But to simplify where I am coming from - I do Believe breast is best. I do look at bottlefeeding mothers and feel sad for their babies - regardless of whether the Mum couldn't or wouldn't breastfeed. And formula is artificial milk. And lastly, people need to own their feelings. Nobody else can make you feel anything. If you feel guilty and defensive, perhaps you may need to work through some stuff. :rolleyes:
reAllytee
02-03-2006, 09:48
I do look at bottlefeeding mothers and feel sad for their babies - regardless of whether the Mum couldn't or wouldn't breastfeed. And formula is artificial milk. And lastly, people need to own their feelings. Nobody else can make you feel anything. If you feel guilty and defensive, perhaps you may need to work through some stuff. :rolleyes:
Hahahaha this is the type of comment i think MB was talking about right ? :rolleyes:
Honestly if i hear the word guilt one more time :banghead:
moonblossom
02-03-2006, 09:49
Yes breast is best, but bottle is BETTER if you have no choice.
moonblossom
02-03-2006, 09:52
Oh and I gotta say, the new emotioncons really do say everything don't they LOL. Damn shame my puter won't let me use them :( Yeah thats a little off track but whoppeeeee dooo daaaa LOL
Pippi Longstocking
02-03-2006, 09:58
Yes breast is best, but bottle is BETTER if you have no choice
Obviously, which is why I said
Obviously, formula feeding is a far better choice than the baby starving.
See what I mean about people getting defensive? I bottlefed for God's sake!
moonblossom
02-03-2006, 10:03
LOL. If you call that defensive when I am on both sides, then blow me over with a feather.
Pippi Longstocking
02-03-2006, 10:07
Sorry , I should have clarified. The defensive comment wasn't entirely directed at you, it was allyoo's post as well. :) . My fault, 'twas a poorly worded post.:o
moonblossom
02-03-2006, 10:13
No worries :)
reAllytee
02-03-2006, 10:14
I too am on both sides because of course breast is best WE ALL KNOW THIS :rolleyes:
I just never understand how people can be so hurtful as to say they feel sorry for babies who are bottle fed its ridiculous even if you have bottle fed !
Its funny why is it when bf mums make points they are never being defensive ?
I still agree with what MB has said sorry if anyone takes that as being defensive or guilty *shrugs*
Anyways back to the topic ......
The worst thing is people glaring(sp?) at you when your giving a bottle out in public...I had a lady glaring(sp?) at me while I was giving Amelia a bottle...thing is it was EBM... bet the judging nosey parker didn't know that....
:shame:
Pippi Longstocking
02-03-2006, 10:25
I just never understand how people can be so hurtful as to say they feel sorry for babies who are bottle fed its ridiculous even if you have bottle fed !
I didn't say I felt sorry for the baby, I siad it makes me feel sad. They are different things. How can somebody else feeling sad be hurtful? I feel sad for the Mum, who may be upset that she didn't get the opportunity to breastfeed, I feel sad for the baby who missed out on the chance to be snuggled in close to mum, drinking from a warm soft nipple rather than a cold piece of rubber. I feel sad that the baby is missing out on an ideal food source.
I also feel sad that society has become so politically correct that we now cannot speak truths for fear of "upsetting" people. We are so caught up in "the mother's right to choose" that the babies rights become forgotten. That is sad.
moonblossom
02-03-2006, 10:31
What is sad, is children being neglected, hurt abandoned and abused. What is sad is seeing families fall apart, the state of the world and how cruel we can be to each other.
There are so many things in this world to be sad over, that wether a mother places a nipple or a bottle in a child mouth, is of little significance in the scheme of things. Now this is going to get some peoples backs up, So I leave this topic and concentrate on more important issues in my life.
Pippi Longstocking
02-03-2006, 10:37
Being sad is limitless. Just because I care about babies does not mean that that is mutually exclusive - I am also extremely sad about the way animals are treated to support the meat industry, I care about issues of social justice, I care about pollution, I care about whether my children look clean and well-loved, I care about so many things.
This thread wasnt started to determine what 'side' you are on or if you think breast or bottle fedding is better, it was started to ask whether people thought the term 'artificial feeding' was appropriate or not, i think it is now way off course, and unless someone else has their opinion to add on the subject, i think it might be best to close it.
reAllytee
02-03-2006, 10:50
Again i agree with MB.
I will now leave this thread alone & bite my tongue.
Tea Lady
02-03-2006, 11:11
I'll add my opinion....
I think someone should close the thread!! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE :)
reAllytee
02-03-2006, 11:13
I'll add my opinion....
I think someone should close the thread!! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE :)
YES !!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
ThomasMum
02-03-2006, 11:26
As I stated previously,
I don't feel threatened by this phrase to be honest.
My son is a formula baby since he was 4 months old. And guess what he's the most healthy, happy and brainy child! And that my friends, thats all that matter to me :D :thumbsup:, I think we all should concentrate on our children well-being instead of getting upset over small jargon. If you google the words "artifical milk" you will hit a million result being the formula, see its not just ABA that use the term :)
So thanks to everyone who have contributed. Its time to move on yeah?
Sit back relax and give a cuddle to your lil ones! :hugs:
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.9 Copyright © 2012 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.