PND testing - were you honest with yourself?

[Chickadee]

Many women are given a PND (Edinburgh) test by our doctors or at the CHN following the birth of our kids (usually at 3 to 6 weeks after). The aim of the test is to get some indications of developing depression, and to help mums to seek early help. I didn't answer honestly on mine, and I believe it contributed to a 4 to 5 month spiral down into serious depression.

This topic has come up in another chat thread, and we wanted to do some wider canvassing of experiences. Were you honest with yourself when filling out the form? Do you think it had any repercussions on your subsequent emotional health?

I'd also be interested in hearing any general thoughts on the use of the Edinburgh test.\

ETA - I've made it multiple choice, for those of you with more than one experience.

[punkbaby]

I wasnt honest with my test with dd9 or with ds4 i guess thats why when i had dd2 i fell into a heap when she was 7 months old. 9 years to work out what was actually wrong it did take its toll and i guess the fact that i now know that pND isnt a dirty word it does make a difference. People around me led me to believe this and thats how i felt until i actually realised Hey its normal its happening to me why didnt i admit i had this years ago!!

Perhaps they need to do the edinburgh test in a more controlled environment and also make it known that PND is an acceptable thing to go through.

[Fuchsia!]

i had a really high score with this bub, the nurse was really worried but didn't offer any help at the time. She just kept doing the test each week until it was at a low enough score.

[floggadog]

I lied with the test after DS#1. I did however mention it to the Dr after it was picked up that I had low thyroid & iron so my depression was put down to that.
Don't think that was 100% right.
With DS#2 I did it & the CHN explained to me it was over & said she had to send the score sheet on to the DR. Seemed like it was protocol or something.
In short, saw DR she suggested mental health lady for a chat & a course she runs. Sent on my referral. Saw mental health lady, did course,
feeling alot better but not 100%

[Bree3]

I have never even heard of this test before and i have had two kids. Would have been great if i did because since DD2 was born i have been feeling depressed. Sometimes i think it's just stress but other times i think it's more.

[Mamalicious]

I voted other, because I really didn't understand some of the questions, one of them was something like

"do you blame yourself unnecessarily for things that go wrong"

I could never answer that one because I would always think "no, they are my fault..."

I didn't get those tests at all, I just ticked the boxes that were happy ones.

[OneBabyBoy]

I lied. Because I was struggling with alot of things but I had done alot of research on PND (because I was scared of getting it) and I knew that it was not PND making me feel like that. It was just a culmination of what I had been through in the previous year or so.
Now, a year on, I am better and still no sign of PND, so I'm still glad that I wasn't honest about it at the time.

[Chickadee]

I have never even heard of this test before and i have had two kids. Would have been great if i did because since DD2 was born i have been feeling depressed. Sometimes i think it's just stress but other times i think it's more.
I have pm'd you a link and copy of the questions. It's just a tool, but can be useful in assessing how you're feeling.

[Hokey Pokey]

I lied. Because I knew if I were honest It would bring out far too strong emotions and I couldn't bare the thought of crumbling infront of the chn.

[smiles]

I have pm'd you a link and copy of the questions. It's just a tool, but can be useful in assessing how you're feeling.


Could I please have the link too? :)

[forbetoel]

I haven't voted because if it is the test that they give you at the CMH then I don't really think it is a good one. Most of my friends who have done the test have come up with a score pointing to PND. I think the questions are pretty odd as most people with kids will feel a lot of the things mentioned on the test. I refused my test, I know that I am happy and coping, I am lucky to be really enjoying the experience of being a mother, and didn't want some CMH nurse telling me I needed to see a doctor, just because I may have filled out the form during a bad fortnight. I also think it is natural for women to struggle at times with emotion and it does get stressful raising a baby if it is unsettled. I just hope the test is helping a lot of PND sufferers, because in my experience it is also catching a lot of stressed mums. You can be stressed and tired without having PND. Just ask any father, or worker, etc,etc, feeling stressed for a period of time can be normal. I am all for it though, if women who are suffering PND are identified.

[Chickadee]

For those who haven't seen it before, this is the Edinburgh test that is commonly used. It is NOT a diagnosis and should not be used in place of seeing a professional.

Edinburgh Postnatal Depression Scale (EPDS)
http://www.childbirthsolutions.com/a...epds/index.php (http://www.childbirthsolutions.com/articles/postpartum/epds/index.php)
Taken from the British Journal of Psychiatry June, 1987, Vol. 150 by J.L. Cox, J.M. Holden, R. Sagovsky

Instructions for users:
The mother is asked to underline the response which comes closest to how she has been feeling in the previous 7 days.

All ten items must be completed.

Care should be taken to avoid the possibility of the mother discussing her answers with others.

The mother should complete the scale herself, unless she has limited English or has difficulty with reading.

The EPDS may be used at 6-8 weeks to screen postnatal women. The child health clinic, postnatal check-up or a home visit may provide suitable opportunities for its completion.
****

As you have recently had a baby, we would like to know how you are feeling. Please UNDERLINE the answer which comes closest to how you have felt IN THE PAST 7 DAYS, not just how you feel today.

[Note from Chickadee - to shorten this post, I've removed the answers that would be selected. They're generally along the lines of "most of the time, sometimes, hardly ever, never")

1. I have been able to laugh and see the funny side of things.

2. I have looked forward with enjoyment to things.

3. I have blamed myself unnecessarily when things went wrong.

4. I have been anxious or worried for no good reason.

5. I have felt scared or panicky for not very good reason.

6. Things have been getting on top of me.

7. I have been so unhappy that I have had difficulty sleeping.

8.I have felt sad or miserable.

9 I have been so unhappy that I have been crying.

10. The thought of harming myself has occurred to me.

[reAllytee]

I lied both times because i dare not be honest in fear of having Boof or as is the case now Boof & Squeak taken away from me.

I lied because i though it would be easier on everyone else around me if they thought i was coping.

Instead ive only made myself worse.

[Shanaynay]

I voted 'other'.

I did the test. I knew what the test was before they gave it to me, so as I took it I said "I feel cr@p, yes I'm depressed, I'll do the test but no, I don't want to see anyone about it".

Both times they just said fair enough, I took the test, very high score indicating PND, but I just said that I didn't want to see anyone and they left it at that.

I don't know why I didn't just lie on the test :confused:

I think maybe I still wanted help, but didn't want to admit that I wanted help. I think I was hoping maybe they'd just FORCE me somehow to get help, I don't know.

Yes I am a nutcase.

[Chickadee]

II think maybe I still wanted help, but didn't want to admit that I wanted help. I think I was hoping maybe they'd just FORCE me somehow to get help, I don't know.

Yes I am a nutcase.
If you're a nutcase, then so am I. Because I completely understand what you mean. :hugs:

[reAllytee]

Phin im totally a nutcase too :hugs:

[QTB]

I filled it out honestly, had a PND score, but I was not offered help (the system failed me)

I lied - tried to hide my feelings from the person giving the test


I lied for ages, to myself and the person giving the test (i had about 20 tests all up)

the last few once i had admitted it to myself came back with a score that was sooooo PND it wasnt funny and the system failed me... the counceller said i was just tired... :thumbsdown: :rolleyes:

it was 18months and holding my son over a balcony (stopped myself thank god and went to GP) til i got the help i needed...

[Me]

I was never given the test:thumbsdown: Although if I was, I probably would have lied on it at the time. I'm only begining to be honest about how I am really not coping atm.

[Samaras Mummy]

I was never given the test :no:.

[Chickadee]

Thanks to all of you for answering so far. I realise that the poll results are going to be slightly skewed (because people who have 'recovered' from depression and pnd may not see this or answer), but I'm really saddened by the number of women here who are not getting timely help, for so many reasons :( :(

[ButterflyMama]

I lied. Because I wasn't ready to admit that I had a problem. I couldn't handle that on top of all the other grief I was also experiencing.

[shaz77]

with DS I wasn't offered the test but was going to talk to MCHN at 4 month visit but she was on hols so didn't say anything. Had prenatal depression with DD and PND now - maternity hosp. put me on special program so I had access to help straight away. My MCHN (changed for DD) did ET and I scored very high (I was trying to moderate my answers) so got the help I need. I know its scary but if you are struggling, speak up!

[Nates_Mumma]

i was given the test recently @ my booking in appointment..
i scored a 14 - and was refered to a social worker who i feel is useless.. i also now have a new GP who is brushing me off....
i really think i have pre-atal depression... :(

[floggadog]

tgo576231 - ask to see someone else. Infact demand to see someone else.
You need to find a councellor/social worker whith whom you gel.
You may have to try a few different ones but don't give up. You are worth it.:)

[catalicious]

I wasnt honest with the test for either f my kids because I was scared they would take my kids of me!!!

I had pnd with DS1 and Ante natal with DS2

[Mum&bubs]

I've never even heard of such a test :confused:

[SassyMummy]

I didn't get any sort of test.

[Beany]

I answered the test honestly but when the nurse questioned me, I tempered my answers so she'd change the results. I feel silly about it now and I don't know why I did it, I just didn't want to admit to her that I wasn't feeling up to the job, I suppose.

[~*clairesmum*~]

nope i never got given it lol so i never seen one b4

[SammieSnail]

I lied. Chose mid-level responses to fly under the radar.

DH was with me and he's 'skeptical' of mental health problems in general....
Plus other than encouraging me to see a doctor and be medicated I don't think there was anything to be done.

[cheezelkat]

I lied because I never wanted to tell anyone that being a mother was a complete nightmare.

I'm considered high risk now, having been on depression meds in the past year. I took the test 2 weeks ago and still felt compelled to gloss over it.

[Angelmist♥]

With DS1- I lied. I lied to myself and I lied on the test.

DS2- The nurse said to me 'oh you've done this before we won't worry this time'. I could have asked for it but I wasn't suffering so didn't bother.

With DD- I rang the CHN clinic because I knew something was wrong again, I filled out the test honestly and according to the nurse should have been hospitalised. She was awesome, gave me numbers for any assistance I might need, made appointments to see mental health and my GP. Even now, 2 years later, she still calls once a fortnight or so to check how I'm doing. I honestly cannot sing her praises highly enough.

[Chickadee]

Angelmist, thanks for posting. I'm glad the CHN you finally saw was so helpful and proactive with you. That's how they all should be :thumbsup:

[Angelmist♥]

I can't believe that 30 of us out of 49 voters have lied on the test:(.

Martha- (aka American, Chickadee:D) do you mind if I use these stats in my essay?

[Angelmist♥]

tgo576231 - ask to see someone else. Infact demand to see someone else.
You need to find a councellor/social worker whith whom you gel.
You may have to try a few different ones but don't give up. You are worth it.:)

I agree floggadog, tgo you really need to see someone.Do what I did:D March into the doctor's office and tell them you aren't leaving until you feel like someone is listening and trying to help:thumbsup:. My CHN was awesome but my GP was very dismissive. I sat in there with all 3 kids and told him I was not leaving until he'd organised an appt schedule with a counsellor and had prescribed meds. I know how hard it is trying to see through the fog on your own, I wasn't prepared to do it again.

Big :hugs: to you and I hope you get the help you deserve soon.

[Chickadee]

I can't believe that 30 of us out of 49 voters have lied on the test:(.

Martha- (aka American, Chickadee:D) do you mind if I use these stats in my essay?
I think you can use them (let me check with the forum owner). But be cautious with them because they're likely skewed - it was not a random sample of forum members. It's probable that because of the section of the forum this is in, many women who were tested but found not to have PND did not vote - they have no interest in this forum section. Whereas women who did have PND and regularly check this section would be more likely to vote.

Also - because it's multiple choice, some people may have voted in both of the "I lied" responses. You'll notice that the number of votes is higher than the number of voters.

[Angelmist♥]

Thanks Martha, I have taken that into consideration and will write the stats up accordingly:thumbsup:

[MountainGirl]

I think I told the truth,..slightly sugar-coated,..and with great scepticism,.... Who wants to be viewed as not capeable by the CHN staff? I really think that the test is being given by the wrong people,....I hated everything to do with the CHN staff,...from their advice to the patronising way they conversed with me. I would have been much more honest had my GP administered the test.

[Chickadee]

I'm bumping this thread because I came across this article (http://www.rcm.org.uk/news/pages/newsView.php?id=286)from the Royal College of Midwives in the UK. And particularly this paragraph (I added emphasis):


Dame Karlene Davis, General Secretary of the Royal College of Midwives said: "Pregnancy is a wonderful life changing event for some women but the transition to motherhood can trigger anxiety, severe exhaustion and depression. This survey indicates that postnatal depression could be a lot higher than previously estimated and the reality is that the incidence could be even higher, as many women hide their symptoms and are too afraid to ask for help.

Lets not be afraid anymore!

[RedPanda]

I lied because the woman who gave me the test was a fill-in CHN, and she was an irritating, prickly woman. I remember the question about how often you cried, I lied outright to, even though at that point I was crying most days. She was hard and unfriendly, and there was no way I was going to be honest about my feelings to her.

[cassvanm]

After I had DD2, I took the Edinburgh test and lied - I know how the tests work (I am in the health field), and I don't think I did it intentionally, but I just kind of knew how to answer it - iykwim?
I was medicated for PND approx. 2 months later. I am now pg with #3, and after started to feel the downwards spiral again - NOT GOOD.

[Chickadee]

Not good Cass. But I'm glad you recognise and acknowledge the spiral this time around :hugs: :hugs:

[LivinOnAPrayer]

I didnt realise there was a test! DD was in hospital (childrens hospital ICU) for her 1st few months having various operations and treatment and tests so i didnt even have my 6 week check up. Is that when they do the test?

[LivinOnAPrayer]

I just read back through the tread and did that test. I scored a 20. Is that a reasonable level??

[Chickadee]

I just read back through the tread and did that test. I scored a 20. Is that a reasonable level??
Each question has a choice of 4 responses, with each response given a value from 0 to 3. So the lowest possible score for test is 0 and the highest possible is 10x3 = 30. 20 is fairly high I think. Dealing with a child in ICU can be really hard, and I hope you were getting some good support from the hospital. :hugs:

[LivinOnAPrayer]

the icu social worker was a godsend. But to be honest i dealt with it all ok back then. Its now that its all dragging out and we're still having problems with DD's health that its started getting me down. I've just started myself back on ad's and hope they kick in by next week (DD is having more surgery on the 3rd april)

[lavenderpegasus]

I have PND, and life is so much clearer that my feelings have been given a label.

But... I feel that i had to fight to be recognised...
I feel that my risk level was high and the OB/hospital/nurses/anyone should have realised that this was going to be the case. For the fact that i gave birth with my husband away at sea, stayed one night in my own home before moving in to a hotel for week then we flew to WA where we lived in a hotel for two weeks and then we moved in to a home in a suburb i didn't know. My husband then went to sea again two weeks on a few days off.
I don't blame anyone, but i just hope this doesn't happen to other (but i know it does). I wasn't the silent type in regards to most of my feelings, and now that i look back at the symptoms of PND i tick EVERY box.
The Edinburgh test i lied in as well not a lot just one question because i thought if i admited to IT (and i'm sure you all know which question I'm talking about) they would take my son away.:gloomy:
I now see a counsellor(sp) and its going great, but i have voiced my opion about the Edinburgh test as I feel it will take me awhile to get a better score as the options are so not different enough, and just from i'm feeling terrible to I'm feeling on top of the world.

I actually feel as though if i hadn't gone private, maybe this PND would have be picked up...maybe


lp in wa

[abibelsmum]

"3. I have blamed myself unnecessarily when things went wrong."

I think this question should be rephrased because of course I'm going to blame myself if something happens to my child - that's part of being a parent.

Child gags on a sandwich - I should have cut the pieces smaller, child falls over trying to stand - should have been there to hold her, child is upset because big sister has hugged her too hard - should have taught big sister better / be watching at that moment etc.

[lavenderpegasus]

:iagree:

[courtneysmum79]

I wasn't honest. I was suffering in silence because.......well stuffed if I know! I didnt want to be seen as not coping I guess. But I wasnt. And I still am not at times.

[A Party of Five]

I filled it out honestly, had a score indicating PND and got help :o

[TwoBlue]

Oh my goodness I am sooooo saddened to hear that so many people lie on this test.. decieve others and try to deceive themselves on a matter that is of utmost importance...

I just believe that we have gotten to a place where people are scared to be honest with people about their feelings which is causing a spiral effect where the next lot of mothers are scared to be honest because they think those other mums are coping and they should be too..

and so the spiral goes.. down down down..
deeper, deeper, deeper..... :gloomy:

Lets start being honest, not just with ourselves and the professionals but with the new mums who need to understand that its OK if they are struggling, its OK if they have bad days.. its NORMAL to have days where you wish you werent a mum...

Oh this is so sad :(

[Chickadee]

I agree Tracey :( And yet I still find it so hard to be open in public about my experiences with depression as a mum. I can talk on here, but to open my mouth about it - outside my own circle of friends - it's incredibly hard.

[TwoBlue]

I know what you mean Martha :hugs: and I do understand that its hard to be honest with people about depression...

I just think its so important that we try to do it :o

[MrsMiggins]

This was really very interesting for me to read.

I have had 2 children & was never give this test post birth. I was given a similar test when attending the midwife run antenatal clinics at the hospital, and this was used as a possible indication of PND.

And yes, I lied. Both because I didn't want to admit a lot of it was a problem, and also because I felt my feelings were temporary and therefore not relevant.

[bagel]

I lied and tried to 'tone down' my answers because i was scared they'd take my baby away if i answered honestly about the suicidal thoughts etc. (Still got a high score though wvwn with the toned down answers):o

[*~Kate~*]

I lied after ds1 and even trying to be half honest i ended up with a huge score.
the chn was great got me into the doctor but the doctor dismissed me and i was sent home with no support , no medication.
I was a mess for so long after that , i couldnt bear to go back and i just got so much worse.
My boy is now 5 and while yes i am better i am not 100 percent, and i have to wonder if i ever will be :(

[Chickadee]

~Kate~, I know what you mean about not 100 percent. I'm off meds now and probably I'm technically 'cured', but I certainly have moments when I wonder if I've made any progress at all. Maybe we become hyper-sensitive to our own selves and start questioning every mood or bad day we have, when before we'd have brushed it off?

I try to think of my depression as an illness, an experience I've had that I didn't choose, but which has made a lasting impression on me. Every experience in our lives affects us and potentially changes us in subtle ways - love, hate, disappointment, joy, sad or happy events - we learn new things and new ways of being every day. PND is just one of those things that I've been through and (hopefully) can grow from in some way.

Gee I'm feeling optimistic this afternoon!!! :yelclap:

[lizmumof(5)girls)]

:no: I was never given any such test after births of my girls.
I dont not get PND until after the birth of Ashley but i so didnot knowmit untill after the birth of Ella ( well about 4-5 months but i didnot want any one to know. And i was thinking i am fine.
My MIL said some thing to me and i said just back off i dont need any help from you or any one
I said to my gp there is some thing wrong.
I have thoughts of killing myself i jump down ppl's throat's and big mood swings and so on!.
He looked at me and said you have PND!.
I was on meads up untill some months ago.
I lost so many kg's it was not funny i was sleeping all the time ( with the meads).
So now i just keep trying with out them but how ever if i fell like i need to go back on them
i will or even if my gp says i need too.

I still have my bad days but i take at look at my life and my Dh and the girls and think of all the good time's not the bad and say to myself
andrew and the girls need you :sunshine:.

[Lastcenturymum]

Never gave these tests in my day either. In hindsight I certainly had it (especially after all I went through with No. 1) and also my own high expectations of what I should be as a mother didn't help. With second I went to the Dr when I couldn't stop shaking and he made me hold my hand out and was shaking visibly. I can't recall a conversation about depression but I was given some little blue pills to help me relax. When a girlfriend saw me one day after a nap (I must have looked a fright) she rang me up and gave me a kind of warning talk and to be honest I can't recall, but I think it gave me the mental strength to turn myself around and lower my standards and accept where I was and who I was.

I'm sure some counselling would have helped. I did go to visit a minister for a chat (father of 5) when DD1 was 3 months and I was rock bottom and his (very unhelpful) comments were 'babies are meant to cry'.!!! I think when I weaned her and she was more content and growing and I was getting some sleep things started to look up.

[zenifa]

I have never had this test, after neither of my two births. Prior to having children I did have some depressive episodes (not requiring medication) and even some pre-natal depression with DD1.
I wasn't sure if my reason for not having the test was going through the private system.
I saw my GP to confirm my pregnancies (via blood test) and then was referred to private OB. Then I had my babies in private hospital and was never screened for PND (just given a brochure on the local private hospital that caters for ladies with PND). Post discharge I saw MCHN (for the usual checks, weigh ins) but she never did the test and neither did my OB at my 6 week check up.


I only know about it (the Edinburgh screening tool for PND) through my professional life in psychology and social work. Years before I had children I worked in maternity and screened women myself and provided them with counselling and support.

Incidentally I'm not sure if I've got PND or have had just another general depressive episode (not related to the birth of my children), as at times I have had difficulty coping and managing my emotions. I'm lucky that I have got support around me and am not requiring meds.

Its sad to hear people have lied on these tests and can't admit their true thoughts and feelings to themselves and others to get the help and support they need.

[Opaque]

and when I went to mothers group I was the picture of vibrancy!

I am so glad to hear other people do this too.

I have done it the entire 12 months I have had PND - I put on a happy face/attitude in front of everyone except for Hubby, & my mum and dad and brother. I don't really trust anyone else with how I am really feeling incase they think that i am a terrible mother.

[NibbleCurlynBub]

I am so glad to hear other people do this too.

I have done it the entire 12 months I have had PND - I put on a happy face/attitude in front of everyone except for Hubby, & my mum and dad and brother. I don't really trust anyone else with how I am really feeling incase they think that i am a terrible mother.
I do that too.

But my only exception is Brett.

I do not trust my parents like that.

[lovingmotheract]

never had one after birth but i have had test's done about depression before about 5 test's in all and i was way to honest but it was good that i was as i got the help i need and it worked out for the best.

[Lila]

nobody ever tested me. everyone thought i can't have PND i was too bubbly, seemingly too much in control and content.....

well, here i am 3 years after i had my last bubby... still fighting

[jaydensmum]

Well i actually did this test 6wks after birth with the CHN and she took the paper and put it in my file without even looking at my results!!!! :mad::confused: She just said that its something they have to do for everyone and said see you next time. I was completely in shock cause the whole point of it is to evaluate your risk of PND.:yes: Luckily i seeked help prior to this myself but i hadnt of, then nothing would of been addressed.
I actually got help through seeking a psychologist myself who did the same test and addressed it appropriately. :yes:
Im disgusted with the system that it can let women down like that. :mad:

[Chickadee]

That's scary Naomi. I hate to think how many other women have been checked by that CHN and had no proper follow up :(

Lila, I think many many mums wear a mask and hide what's going on inside us. I wish I knew why we do that to ourselves.