Unemployment - the reality

[Pippi Longstocking]

I'm putting this here in the election forum because this is where the issue of unemployment tends to get discussed. I want to paint a clear picture of unemployment from my point of view. I am hoping that this will stop some of the negative judgements that people feel they are entitled to dish out.

Now, a few people have caught on that both my husband and I are unemployed (and have been making snide digs regarding this for a while now). Yep, we are both unemployed. 18 months ago, my husband was running a very successful and lucrative business that he built up from scratch. Unfortunately, the bulk of this business relied on one major contract. Another larger company that could afford to compete won the contract in the tender process. Our business crumbled, leaving us with no income. We went from a very substantial income to nothing. I do know what it's like to live on $2000 per week because I have done it! I can assure you, it wasn't a struggle!
My husband got a job driving taxis. This job was appalling - he worked insanely long hours, including nights, he was robbed at knife-point and on top of this, it left us $200 per fortnight WORSE off than we would have been on Centrelink benefits. He kept it up because of his strong work ethic and his sense of self respect relying on earning a living to support the family he inherited (four of our children aren't his).
Burn out was inevitable. I was miserable - we had moved way out of town away from all of my friends and family because that was the only way we could afford to pay the rent. This was a double-edged sword though - the money we saved in rent my husband had to spend on petrol to get to and from work. My husband was rarely home and when he was, he was asleep. It was a horrible way to live - our marriage was suffering, we were suffering individually and our kids were suffering. So we moved 3 hours away in the hope that we could start again. Unfortunately though, the areas that have affordable rents are those that have very little to offer in the way of employment prospects. After month upon month of applying for every job he possibly could, my husband decided to go back to uni in the hope that a qualification will widen his employment prospects. He is still applying for every job that comes up. We are doing better financially than we were while he was driving cabs but it is still a struggle. We live hand to mouth, there is never enough money for all that we need and we have to juggle things on an importance basis. Investing any money is laughable, given that we cannot afford necessities.
The internet (a very cheap plan) is our only luxury and it is one that we need. We are isolated here, it is our only form of socialisation. We don't know anyone here at all. We also need the net so that my husband can check for jobs daily, so that he can apply for them on line, and so that he can study externally.
Neither of us have any extra frivolous expenses. My husband gave up smoking almost a year ago as we couldn't afford his habit. Neither of us go out, we don't gamble, we don't take drugs, we don't drink to excess...we struggle enough as it is without needing to add these extra expenses!

I don't have to explain any of this. But I feel as though some people have a "Today Tonight" idea of what it's like to be unemployed. This is the reality of it. It is depressing. It is financially daunting. It takes clever budgeting. And it can be soul-destroying when people are so callous and judgemental about it, despite the fact that they have clearly no idea what it is like.
I hope this has given a brief idea of what it is like to live on Centrelink benefits. Most recipients aren't bludgers living it up on taxpayer-funded luxurious lifestyles. Most are struggling to get ahead, struggling to change their situation and struggling with the negative ignorant judgements of people who look down their noses without having a freakin' clue!

It pays not to judge people. You don't know their stories, you don't know their histories and you don't know their capabilities. You cannot assume that just because you have done something, others ought to be able to also. Some people are just unlucky and all they need is to be cut a break. Some people have not had a work ethic instilled in them. Some people lack self esteem and self confidence. Some people lack the opportunity. Some people lack the ability. Some people are just plain lazy.
You cannot possibly know who is who so treat everyone fairly and respectfully. You never know, it could be you one day!

[Ana Gram]

It pays not to judge people. You don't know their stories, you don't know their histories and you don't know their capabilities. You cannot assume that just because you have done something, others ought to be able to also.

I completely agree with this.

I have lived on unemployment before, although not with children which I imagine would be much tougher. Being alone while doing it, I was about to live on hummus and bread for 6 months.

[our little treasures]

:eek: I am horrified you have to explain yourself to a bunch of nasty people:eek:

My dad took a forced package from his employer and then was left only being able to get shift work. It was very hard on him emotionally. My dad had worked all his life but people still commented. Even today he can only get shift work, lucky he earns about 80000 a year even though he only works half the year.

Guv, family is the most important and I think most that have had to live on unemployment know that it isn't easy. As a family of 7 we struggled from week to week with all of us 5 children in high school. I know it isn't the ideal life most would have you believe.:)

[mummy2sophie]

I too know what it is like to be unemployed. It took me forever to find a job when we first moved to Sydney and I had never had trouble before. It was depressing and demoralising. I couldn't work out what I was doing wrong when applying for work, as I said before, I'd had no trouble in Melbourne and had superb references. And I was in an area (teaching) that was supposed to be in a shortage!

I can't imagine what it would be like to have kids in the mix and to not have an income at all (my DH was working through my unemployment).

The thing that saved me was an employment agency, these mostly specialise in various areas. They were able to give me relief teaching work until I found work mid-year. I'm sure you and your DP have already thought of this and applied to agencies accordingly. Just thought I'd throw it in there, as it sounds like your man has some excellent qualifications and experience.

I hope it all improves for you soon. :hugs:

[SweetSerenity]

Guv I agree with you.

Everytime people hear an adult is not employed they are automatically looked down upon and judged in a very harsh manner.

Being a single mum and not working for a company/employer you get the whole "Typical single mother not working and bludging off centrelink".... I hate it.

I totally know where you are coming from.

Like our little treasures said, family is number one :)

In saying this there are MANY people who couldn't care less though, they don't have a problem living off centrelink their whole lives and using their money on alcohol and drugs, but again, not everyone who relies on benefits take advantage of the help they actually receive.

[melfunction]

:eek: I am horrified you have to explain yourself to a bunch of nasty people:eek:

I am absolutely disgusted that they would make snide remarks too.
I hope these snobs know about karma, because it WILL bite them exactly where they deserve it :mad:

My post has nothing to do with the election, but oh well, what thread sticks to the topic around here :confused:

[princess niamh]

Its nasty to have to defend yourself against complete strangers.
Snide comments and judgements on who you are as a person are cruel and hurtful.

I hope you feel better after explaining the reality of your life.

Sometimes its hard when you have your social life on the net.
You use it to speak out and get support and tell people things you dont tell anyone else.

Its horrible when total strangers feel they can judge and rip you down for it.

I hope the comments stop and you can go back to being proud of your life knowing you are doing the very best you can.

[~Bec~]

Anyone who has a "Today Tonight" opinion on anything isn't worth worrying about.

I hope things improve for you and your family very soon. :hugs:

[KarniF00l]

People are making snide remarks ? NO WAY! :p

Seriously now, I feel sorry for you Guv that you feel the need to justify yourself and your family and the situation at hand. It stumps me how can anyone ever judge someone's situation unless they have walked a mile in their shoes.

Just walk a mile sniders :)

[RedPanda]

Firstly, I don't think mothers who are at home with their children are officially classed as "unemployed". You have a job, it's just not paid.

Secondly, don't feel as though you have to justify yourself. Most people don't have a stereotypical view of unemployed people (I hope!).

[missie_mack]

Really I think your family should be applauded for their efforts to gain employment and improve employment prospects. I would never envy anyone living on unemployment benefits :no: It is only designed to be enough money to barely get by. Pay the bare neccessities if your lucky enough to live in a area you can afford.
I believe you are setting your children a wonderful example on how to work through it and to try different things...
:fingerscrossed: Something will come up for you and your family soon.

[MountainGirl]

You don't need to defend yourself round here,...... I, and I am assuming other people, come on here to chat with other 'parents',...I have no care whether they are employed or not!

From what I see, you are a blummin smart woman who raises her kids really well,..... that is all that I need to know!:)

[forbetoel]

Guv, firstly you don't need to explain to a bunch of snobs how hard it is to get by on very little money, however I will thankyou for sharing your story. If it makes one person think twice about making judgements such as "people should stop complaining, and make their own success" I have seen things like this said over, and over and over, here on BH. It is sad that people doing financially well in life, cannot have any empathy or understanding for those who do not. I actually think you are really lucky, judging by your posts, your children have everything that they need, and I am sure you are the one who goes without to provide that. Love is free, and I know your children have as much, if not more than other children. I know it is a struggle for you financially, and I hope something comes up soon for you guys.
Great Post, Guv!

[Phyllis Stein]

I too don't think Guv needed to put her story up; however, sometimes it's the only way to help people understand that their myopic judgements are complete & utter balderdash.

TBH, the upper classes have always moralised about who makes up the "deserving poor", making huge logical errors in the process (i.e. if I can/ would do x, then y can/ should do x too, despite differences a, b, & c). I've read some so-ludicrous-they're-almost-laughable criteria that used to be applied to welfare recipients throughout the 19th/ early 20th century. I'll try & dig some out later - it's quite enlightening to see how far we haven't come.

Anyways, having a go at the unemployed is really low IMO. You truly have no idea of their situations, only a mish-mash of misrepresentations from commercial tv with no ethical qualms about exploiting the vulnerable for ratings, crossed with anecdotal "evidence" like, "oh, I used to live nextdoor to an unemployed family - they were sooo bad with money blah blah blah" - yes, & I'm sure you engaged them in lengthy D&Ms over the fence too - obviously we gain so much accurate understanding of our neighbours from peaking through curtains - not.

Also, if someone spends their measly rations on cigarettes or gambling, I would be more likely to presume addiction (surprisingly, no easier to overcome when you're poor than when you're rich!), depression and/ or despair than simply mismanaging finances!
These "luxuries" can be how people self-medicate themselves in order to keep going! No, not ideal, but sometimes the only way known, & quite honestly, if you've never been desperate, save your judgements.

I'd really like anyone having a cheap dig at the unemployed to turn off Today Tonight, & go & volunteer for a welfare group - preferably in a hands-on position. Your informed opinion might be taken a little more seriously then.

[lachys_mama]

I too don't think Guv needed to put her story up; however, sometimes it's the only way to help people understand that their myopic judgements are complete & utter balderdash.

TBH, the upper classes have always moralised about who makes up the "deserving poor", making huge logical errors in the process (i.e. if I can/ would do x, then y can/ should do x too, despite differences a, b, & c). I've read some so-ludicrous-they're-almost-laughable criteria that used to be applied to welfare recipients throughout the 19th/ early 20th century. I'll try & dig some out later - it's quite enlightening to see how far we haven't come.

Anyways, having a go at the unemployed is really low IMO. You truly have no idea of their situations, only a mish-mash of misrepresentations from commercial tv with no ethical qualms about exploiting the vulnerable for ratings, crossed with anecdotal "evidence" like, "oh, I used to live nextdoor to an unemployed family - they were sooo bad with money blah blah blah" - yes, & I'm sure you engaged them in lengthy D&Ms over the fence too - obviously we gain so much accurate understanding of our neighbours from peaking through curtains - not.

Also, if someone spends their measly rations on cigarettes or gambling, I would be more likely to presume addiction (surprisingly, no easier to overcome when you're poor than when you're rich!), depression and/ or despair than simply mismanaging finances!
These "luxuries" can be how people self-medicate themselves in order to keep going! No, not ideal, but sometimes the only way known, & quite honestly, if you've never been desperate, save your judgements.

I'd really like anyone having a cheap dig at the unemployed to turn off Today Tonight, & go & volunteer for a welfare group - preferably in a hands-on position. Your informed opinion might be taken a little more seriously then.

here here!!!

[stellarella]

Both DP and I are on unemployment (well i'm on parenting payment) benefits while we look for a new home and a new job. We are living at MILs.

I have no problem admitting it and no I am not a dole bludger (whatever that is).

Good on you Guv. I hope your situation improves soon. :kiss:

[missie_mack]

TBH (and I can accept I am a snob if so classed) I think the biggest issue are the people who live at home without paying a cent for anything and use this basically like spending money. Generally I would think they are teenagers but I guess there would be adults in this situation as well.

I remember kids at school whose parents gave them all of their austudy as spending money to go to the movies etc I wish even now I had a couple of hundred $$ a fortnight just to spend on my every whim

[lotti]

Wow seems this has become another 'the rich are evil' topic.

I would personally like to see 'everyone' do well and be happy. I think its pretty nasty to make snide remarks no matter what the topic.

[MountainGirl]

Wow seems this has become another 'the rich are evil' topic.

I would personally like to see 'everyone' do well and be happy. I think its pretty nasty to make snide remarks no matter what the topic.


I disagree,.... I have read nothing about 'rich being evil",..... I think that most people have come to the discussion with the same thoughts,.those being that 'your' financial status is really none of anyone elses business,..and that the way that you bring up your kids, and the environment to which they learn from is far more important,.. IMHO......:)

[shed]

Guv, I have met you and anyone who says anything awful about you or your situation or your kids or anything really, is an idiot.

So.

:hugs: squish

[our little treasures]

I don't think this has anything to do with the "rich are evil" people on average incomes I am sure are guilty of judging as well!! :rolleyes:

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

Wow seems this has become another 'the rich are evil' topic.

I would personally like to see 'everyone' do well and be happy. I think its pretty nasty to make snide remarks no matter what the topic.
If people feel rich and evil that is their problem lol. Joke Joke
I would agree that you are doing it tough and good on you for sharing your story- some people don't understand nor do they have the ability or inclination to understand what it's like for real people.
The government can hinder peoples chances at getting ahead and I'm glad you shared your story.
I wish tax breaks went to helping families like yours instead of padding the pockets of people who don't need them!

[Mamaduke]

I don't really know what this thread has to do with the Federal Election.
To me, the unemployment issue would be regarding people who cannot find any work, not cannot find work that they see as worthwhile.

[forbetoel]

Wow seems this has become another 'the rich are evil' topic.

I would personally like to see 'everyone' do well and be happy. I think its pretty nasty to make snide remarks no matter what the topic.

Where has anyone said anything about the rich being evil:confused: I though this thread was about Guv's situation, and how hard it is for her to make ends meet.

[forbetoel]

I don't really know what this thread has to do with the Federal Election.
.

I think it was a very appropriate place to put her post, it is infact the section that I have witnessed the most negative things said about people in Guv's situation. It also reinforces the fact, that regardless of what John Howard says, most Australians are not better off. There are thousands of stuggling families both unemployed and employed.

[Pippi Longstocking]

I don't really know what this thread has to do with the Federal Election.
I explained why I put this thread here in my OP.
[QUOTE=Mamaduke;2046450]To me, the unemployment issue would be regarding people who cannot find any work, not cannot find work that they see as worthwhile.

I'm sorry? What do you mean by this? Care to elaborate? By whose definition are we gauging "worthwhile"?

[Ana Gram]

I am somewhat confused to be honest. It seems like the thought here is that we shouldn't judge people's financial situation as we don't know their personal situation (sounding remarkably like what I have said in another thread), but only if they are of a low income. But if a family earning $2000 a week which has been the example amount, is struggling well there must e something wrong with them.

Why can't it swing both ways. We don't know what an individual family has to pay for whether they get $500 a week or $2000.

[Shanaynay]

I am pretty shocked to learn that Guv has had snide remarks :( I won't say what I think about the people who have done so as I sure can't do it without it being edited anyway.

So remind me never to fully explain what has been my situation for the past 5 or so years. I'd be tied to a stake :rolleyes:

Unemployment is the pits. It is a vicious cycle and in my case, it ruined lives.

Thankyou Guv for sharing your story.

[Pippi Longstocking]

I am somewhat confused to be honest. It seems like the thought here is that we shouldn't judge people's financial situation as we don't know their personal situation (sounding remarkably like what I have said in another thread), but only if they are of a low income. But if a family earning $2000 a week which has been the example amount, is struggling well there must e something wrong with them.

Why can't it swing both ways. We don't know what an individual family has to pay for whether they get $500 a week or $2000.

I tried to explain this in the other thread. ALL families need a base level of income to provide day to day necessities such as food/shelter/clothing. This is regardless of income. There is a bare minimum required. Sometimes, people do not attain that bare minimum. Sometimes they receive less than they need to provide those basics. If a person cannot afford those basics despite earning $2000pw, they are clearly doing something wrong. Do you see what I am saying?

[forbetoel]

I am somewhat confused to be honest. It seems like the thought here is that we shouldn't judge people's financial situation as we don't know their personal situation (sounding remarkably like what I have said in another thread), but only if they are of a low income. But if a family earning $2000 a week which has been the example amount, is struggling well there must e something wrong with them.

Why can't it swing both ways. We don't know what an individual family has to pay for whether they get $500 a week or $2000.

If someone is genuinly struggling on $2000 a week then it would have to be their lifestyle choices, if not people living off $500 a week should be dead from not affording to eat. Honestly, you cannot struggle on $2000, unless you are paying a few houses off, a boat, and holidays. An average mortgage, cost of food, and utilites, while high, is not anywhere near $2000. I would struggle to even understand how someones necessities could ammount to $2000 a week. I am not having a dig at 'rich' people, I have friends who earn even a lot more than this, and the last thing they would be doing is 'struggling' I am happy for anyone who doesn't have to worry about money, but I cannot feel sorry for someone who earns over twice the average wage and says they are struggling, when there are people living off half the average wage and struglling to even put petrol in the car....and they start off each week with $1500 less in their pocket. So no, I won't feel sorry for someone earning $2000 a week and struggling, I would actually love to know what their definition of stuggling is?

[Ana Gram]

I tried to explain this in the other thread. ALL families need a base level of income to provide day to day necessities such as food/shelter/clothing. This is regardless of income. There is a bare minimum required. Sometimes, people do not attain that bare minimum. Sometimes they receive less than they need to provide those basics. If a person cannot afford those basics despite earning $2000pw, they are clearly doing something wrong. Do you see what I am saying?

I do see what you are saying, however I just don't agree.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

I am somewhat confused to be honest. It seems like the thought here is that we shouldn't judge people's financial situation as we don't know their personal situation (sounding remarkably like what I have said in another thread), but only if they are of a low income. But if a family earning $2000 a week which has been the example amount, is struggling well there must e something wrong with them.

Why can't it swing both ways. We don't know what an individual family has to pay for whether they get $500 a week or $2000.
I don't know what the confusion is about - I don't think any body judges people who are well off - just the attitudes they may express. eg- allways putting people down who are on low incomes, saying things like "they should budget better- They should look harder to find work- they should get a better job- they chould stop wasting money".
I think the point that was made was that people who are poor usually don't have money to waste -however welthier people do have more money to use as they please. I would be embarresed if I couldn't manage my money given that we recieve quite alot.
I know what it is like to be truly struggling and I would not wish it on any one- there is no doubt that I am much better off now and It infuiates me when people judge others for their circumstances.

[Pippi Longstocking]

I do see what you are saying, however I just don't agree.

Why one earth not? I struggle to see how that could possibly be disagreed with. Are you disagreeing that there is a base level needed for necessities? -What- exactly are you disagreeing with?

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

I do see what you are saying, however I just don't agree.
It is a fact that many many people live below the poverty line. The government does not even deny that! how can they possibly get ahead when they don't even get the standard recomended amount to live.

[forbetoel]

It is a fact that many many people live below the poverty line. The government does not even deny that! how can they possibly get ahead when they don't even get the standard recomended amount to live.

Thanks you saved me some typing, but you forgot to put a few of these in :hair: :banghead: :hair: :banghead:

[Ana Gram]

If someone is genuinly struggling on $2000 a week then it would have to be their lifestyle choices, if not people living off $500 a week should be dead from not affording to eat. Honestly, you cannot struggle on $2000, unless you are paying a few houses off, a boat, and holidays. An average mortgage, cost of food, and utilites, while high, is not anywhere near $2000. I would struggle to even understand how someones necessities could ammount to $2000 a week. I am not having a dig at 'rich' people, I have friends who earn even a lot more than this, and the last thing they would be doing is 'struggling' I am happy for anyone who doesn't have to worry about money, but I cannot feel sorry for someone who earns over twice the average wage and says they are struggling, when there are people living off half the average wage and struglling to even put petrol in the car....and they start off each week with $1500 less in their pocket. So no, I won't feel sorry for someone earning $2000 a week and struggling, I would actually love to know what their definition of stuggling is?

As I say over and over and over, you don't know what their expenses are. You don't know what their family situation is. You don't know.

No-one, until this thread ever stated it had to be the basic necessities. Some families may have other expenses such as medical bills.

I can go by personal experience and I find it quite horrible that none of you would feel sorry for my parents who at one point were struggling on more than $2000 a week. There is certainly nothing wrong with them, nothing wrong with their budgeting but sometimes unexpected things happen which the rest of society isn't aware of.

[Ana Gram]

Why one earth not? I struggle to see how that could possibly be disagreed with. Are you disagreeing that there is a base level needed for necessities? -What- exactly are you disagreeing with?

I think I have stated several times what I disagree with. I disagree with the assumptions that people make regarding other people's finances.

[forbetoel]

As I say over and over and over, you don't know what their expenses are. You don't know what their family situation is. You don't know.

No-one, until this thread ever stated it had to be the basic necessities. Some families may have other expenses such as medical bills.

I can go by personal experience and I find it quite horrible that none of you would feel sorry for my parents who at one point were struggling on more than $2000 a week. There is certainly nothing wrong with them, nothing wrong with their budgeting but sometimes unexpected things happen which the rest of society isn't aware of.

O.k, then would you agree to maybe this "the large majority of people living off $2000 a week are NOT struggling." or do you really think that it is a pretty common occurence, people struggling to pay the basics in life on $2000 a week????
As for not feeling sorry, I would feel sorry for anyone who is having a hard time in their personal lives,money does not even come into that, my empathy and sympathy is not dished out according to wealth, but for those whose problems are soley financial, and living on $2000 a week, I would think they could just down grade the family home and make other sacrifices to get them on the right track.

[Pippi Longstocking]

As I say over and over and over, you don't know what their expenses are. You don't know what their family situation is. You don't know.

No-one, until this thread ever stated it had to be the basic necessities. Some families may have other expenses such as medical bills.

I can go by personal experience and I find it quite horrible that none of you would feel sorry for my parents who at one point were struggling on more than $2000 a week. There is certainly nothing wrong with them, nothing wrong with their budgeting but sometimes unexpected things happen which the rest of society isn't aware of.

*sigh* It seems to me as though you are consistently missing the point. On $2000 a week, you can afford the bare necessities, even if that means other areas falling down around you. It may mean having to sell investments, it may mean having to do any number of things but you can STILL cover the base level of NEEDS. Not luxuries, not extras, the very basic needs. THAT is and has been my point all along.

Now this thread has been taken off topic long enough. Let's get back to discussing people's unfounded ignorant judgements in relation to the employment status of people they know nothing about...

[Ana Gram]

I have a problem with sweeping statements. I just don't think generalised assumptions are wise when each family has their own situation.

[missie_mack]

Chelle is right too. While some people may be earning $2000 a week they may have a huge mortgage repayment.
If for say you live in Sydney in most area you would be looking at buying a reasonably cheap home for about $500 000. Take the loan today over 30 years and repay it weekly and you are looking at paying over $1100 a week :eek: Add some home insurance, land rates, water rates, electricity bills and just the minimum you need to get by with a family and it isnt hard to see how anyone can find themselves in a tight financial position.

And if you think they should rent you should see the rental market and the amount of hoops you need to jump through and the line up to inspect the home. So what is a person to do. Move away from the area, leave the job they have for a cheaper home?? Travel longer??

Most people do what they can to get by. Just some people do it more comfortably than others. Im fortunate to have lived on good wages for most of my adult life but I would never begrudge another for doing what they must with their own wages.

[Shanaynay]

I can go by personal experience and I find it quite horrible that none of you would feel sorry for my parents who at one point were struggling on more than $2000 a week. There is certainly nothing wrong with them, nothing wrong with their budgeting but sometimes unexpected things happen which the rest of society isn't aware of.
I can completely understand. My parents have always had a very high income but at at the moment (actually, have been for a few years) are struggling. Their mortgage is HUGE, so their insurance costs are thru the roof, they live in an acerage so the maintenence costs are huge, they have horse (very expensive to feed!) - my Dad travels 3 hours everyday to and from work (petrol!) PLUS they are helping me out a fair bit lately because I am povvo.

So people on very high incomes (way more that $2000 a week!) can struggle pretty bad too. To the point of wondering how they are going to pay for groceries.

But, some would say they should sell up and move somewhere cheaper, cut all their costs, sell the animals etc... I don't know.


ETA but let me clarify - I understand that they do have the MEANS to meet basic neccessities.... I don't :(

[forbetoel]

I have a problem with sweeping statements. I just don't think generalised assumptions are wise when each family has their own situation.

She is just trying to make the point that the basic costs of living is pretty much the same for everyone, so if you earn $2000 you should be ale to make some life changes to stop yourself from struggling. It really isn't about judgement, because no, we don't know about other peoples personal situations, but the fact remains that $2000 a week is still a huge ammount higher than the necessities we need to live..............

[Pippi Longstocking]

Chelle is right too. While some people may be earning $2000 a week they may have a huge mortgage repayment.


But that would still leave $900 for everything else. We are comparing that with somebody on $500 per week, with rent needing to be factored in to that. See what I am saying?

*ahem* back on topic :p

[forbetoel]

Yes some people may have a huge mortgage and struggle to pay it off on a large wage, but that mortgage is a choice, and was only available to them becaue of their large wage. If you cant afford to live because of a high wage, just downgrade.

[missie_mack]

but the fact remains that $2000 a week is still a huge ammount higher than the necessities we need to live..............

But what one person deems essential another does not.... everybody is different!

[missie_mack]

If you cant afford to live because of a high wage, just downgrade.

Umm I dunno where you are but $500 000 is a downgraded house in Sydney in a less than desirable suburb. The cheaper the area the lower the wages and higher the unemployment...

It really is a catch 22 situation.

[Ana Gram]

You know what, there are some things you can't change. My parents struggled to cover the basic necessities earning more than $2000 a week during my brother's cancer treatment where a vast chunk of it had to paid out of pocket by my parents.

And for the record, I am as povo as the rest of you.

[Mamaduke]

I'm sorry? What do you mean by this? Care to elaborate? By whose definition are we gauging "worthwhile"?
Yours.

[KarniF00l]

I have a problem with sweeping statements. I just don't think generalised assumptions are wise when each family has their own situation.

I have to agree.

For instance, DH and I have a successful business and whilst it seems that we earn a fair bit (according to my family :rolleyes: ) we still have to pay out X amount of money on a weekly basis to keep the business going, so we are really left with a minimum weekly wage.

On any situation it's wrong to assume and judge people no matter how much money someone earns.

[Pippi Longstocking]

Yours.

Wtf? :confused:

[forbetoel]

And for the record, I am as povo as the rest of you.

Well I actually don't class myself as 'povo' My husband and I get through just fine, that is why I am having trouble with the whole "you can struggle on $2000 a week' thing.

Even a $1000 a week mortgage leaves you with another $1000 to live off for 7 days. So if you want to live in an expensive area, that is fine, you would still have a lot of money left to meet other costs, and really not a great deal of people would be paying $1000 a week on a mortgage, and if they did, that agian is a choice.

[Mamaduke]

Wtf? :confused:
It was in your opening post.



My husband got a job driving taxis. This job was appalling - he worked insanely long hours, including nights, he was robbed at knife-point and on top of this, it left us $200 per fortnight WORSE off than we would have been on Centrelink benefits.
My husband was rarely home and when he was, he was asleep. It was a horrible way to live - our marriage was suffering, we were suffering individually and our kids were suffering.
So am I wrong in assuming you didn't think this job was worthwhile?

[Ana Gram]

Even a $1000 a week mortgage leaves you with another $1000 to live off for 7 days. So if you want to live in an expensive area, that is fine, you would still have a lot of money left to meet other costs, and really not a great deal of people would be paying $1000 a week on a mortgage, and if they did, that agian is a choice.

Gah :banghead: , sometimes it isn't that simple. Some circumstances are not a choice and even "rich" people struggle when those things happens.

[Mamaduke]

Gah :banghead: , sometimes it isn't that simple. Some circumstances are not a choice and even "rich" people struggle when those things happens.
They don't get it chelle...apparently money problems all comes down to dollars and cents and the more dollars and cents one may have on pay day the less one is entitled to struggle.

[missie_mack]

Umm you seem to be missing the point 4boys2love if you own a house in Sydney which you bought today that would be a minimum repayment cost unless you took a homeloan over 40 years. Move away from the city and you may not be able to find employment.

Lets use my situation for an example (not that I own a house in Sydney) We have moved to the country for 12 months for my DHs work. You can buy a house real cheap out here. $250 000 and you have a brand new 4 bedroom house on a good size block of land and they will even throw in a little car. Where I live (and own) a house you couldnt buy a dog box in the worst suburb for that. However if we moved here permenantly for the cheap house I would have great difficulties finding a job as a professional. Do you honestly think someone in my position should give up my $75k job for a $30k job packing shelves at Woolies so I can have a cheaper mortgage?? The mortgage would still be around $500 a week. I would be lucky to find a job that paid that kind of money unless there was a dramatic shift in the business's in this town.

However dont get me wrong I dont think that Guv's husband should be working a job that pays less than government benefits do. That would be plain silly to put your family further into the red

[Pippi Longstocking]

So am I wrong in assuming you didn't think this job was worthwhile?

Clearly not. It was not worthwhile having my husband work a dangerous job which had him away from the home for the majority of the time and was so lowly paid our family was in worse poverty then than we are on centrelink benefits now. No, I don't think that that was worthwhile at all. Do you?

[bubs_and_us]

while i do feel for the families living on the poverty line (and i've been there myself)..... i also feel for the families classed as 'wealthy' but having curve balls thrown at them and for some reason or another they are struggling.

its nobody's place to judge someone in relation to their financial situation. at the moment, we're living on roughly $1000 per week.

should be be struggling? in a perfect world, NO! but, sometimes we do. recently, i had 3 weeks to save $3500 for my son to have surgery. sure, that was a choice (to go private), but when you're baby is in pain, the choice between finding $3500 or waiting in the public system for 2.5 years....... its not a hard choice to make. im still trying to 'get on top' of all our bills that had to wait while i got that money.

i know its off topic, but just to point out.... you dont know someone's individual situation. sometimes its not as easy as simply 'downgrading'

[KarniF00l]

I don't think I would let DH risk his life, his sanity and his marriage for the sake of a job. Especially for a measly $200 extra a week. :no:

I know what it's like being a daughter of a shift worker and to be honest I can't remember much about my dad in my young childhood years. Kinda sucks really.

[Pippi Longstocking]

It would be great if the thread could get back on track. I didn't actually start it to discuss how people on a high income are struggling. It was about people's perceptions and unfounded judgements in relation to unemployed people.

[Mamaduke]

It pays not to judge people. You don't know their stories, you don't know their histories and you don't know their capabilities. You cannot assume that just because you have done something, others ought to be able to also. Some people are just unlucky and all they need is to be cut a break. Some people have not had a work ethic instilled in them. Some people lack self esteem and self confidence. Some people lack the opportunity. Some people lack the ability. Some people are just plain lazy.
You cannot possibly know who is who so treat everyone fairly and respectfully. You never know, it could be you one day!
I think this is what sparked the 'higher income people struggling' comments.
You should have made it clear in your OP that this empathy and respect is not to be extended to those people.

[rynosmum]

Well this seems like a lively place :wave:

Guv, I'm sorry that you had to explain your situation in detail on here. It shouldn't be necessary although I guess that sometimes it is, just to prove a point.

You are right though, many people have a stereotypical view of unemployed people and more specifically unemployed couples. Those people have never walked a mile (or a metre) in your shoes though - don't forget that.

All or any of us or one of our main providers could be unemployed at any time - it's a fact of life and a scary one at that. The unemployment rate is so low at the moment which only makes it harder to find work. I don't think that anyone should assume that this means anything apart from the fact that you've fallen on hard times. Guv, with the work ethic and common logic you both carry, this won't be forever, but in the meantime you sound like you are doing the very best that you can do for your family which is great :thumbsup:

I must admit though that I do have a view of 'some' unemployed people. The ones who whinge that they don't get enough financial assistance but are never looking for work. The people who state that it is the government's role to support them and to tax higher income earners more heavily to pass the savings back. The ones who feel that the world owes them a living but have no interest in getting out there and trying to better their situation....and especially the people who rip off the system, hide income, take community housing by fudging their details, use concession cards when they don't qualify. It is these people who I have a massive problem with. The problem is, they are generally the most outspoken and therefore blanket stereotypical images are made. I would like to smack all of these people.:banghead:

[Pippi Longstocking]

I don't think I would let DH risk his life, his sanity and his marriage for the sake of a job. Especially for a measly $200 extra a week. :no:

I know what it's like being a daughter of a shift worker and to be honest I can't remember much about my dad in my young childhood years. Kinda sucks really.

But it wasn't even $200 a week extra - it was $100 a week less than centrelink benefits!

[missie_mack]

I must admit though that I do have a view of 'some' unemployed people. The ones who whinge that they don't get enough financial assistance but are never looking for work. The people who state that it is the government's role to support them and to tax higher income earners more heavily to pas the savings back. The ones who feel that the world owes them a living but have no interest in getting out there and trying to better their situation....and especially the people who rip off the system, hide income, take community housing by fudging their details, use concession cards when they don't qualify. It is these people who I have a massive problem with. The problem is, they are generally the most outspoken and therefore blanket stereotypical images are made. I would like to smack all of these people.:banghead:


Yes these are the people who give those on benefits a bad name.

[forbetoel]

They don't get it chelle...apparently money problems all comes down to dollars and cents and the more dollars and cents one may have on pay day the less one is entitled to struggle.

No not 'entitled' to stuggle, 'likely' to struggle.
I do believe that the more you earn, the less likely it is that you may struggle.

[SassyMummy]

I think it's ridiculous that you've had people making snide comments about your situation Guv... we live on Centrelink money and DP's wages, and even that is absolutely dismal... I would never WANT to just live on Centrelink benefit alone, and I would suspect that most people relying on Centrelink benefits alone are doing so because that's all they CAN do for the time being.

JH might say that Unemployment is very low, and yeah, it is, but what's the point of having a job that offers you no security and very little pay?

If I were your husband Guv, I wouldn't have kept that taxi job easy... risking injury (or death even) for LESS money than you'd get on Centrelink benefits, never seeing your family, etc... who would want that for themselves?

[bubs_and_us]

sorry guv

back on track...... as far as im concerned, if you're attempting to improve your families employment prospects (through study, training, work experience etc) then nobody could ask any more of you. you're obviously doing your best with what you've been given, and it appears to be a vicious cycle. nobody has the right to judge you, or anyone else in a similar situation, because they are not walking in your shoes.

it would be different for someone not even applying for jobs, and being happy to live on govt benefits..... but even then, its not really my place to judge.

i hope that you get a break soon. some good luck and good fortune must be due your way.

[Pippi Longstocking]

I think this is what sparked the 'higher income people struggling' comments.
You should have made it clear in your OP that this empathy and respect is not to be extended to those people.

mamaduke, this thread is quite obviously about UNEMPLOYED people struggling, not about working people struggling. If you would like to start a thread about that, go right ahead.
When I express empathy and respect for one minority group, it is not at the expense of all others. :rolleyes:

[forbetoel]

Do you honestly think someone in my position should give up my $75k job for a $30k job packing shelves at Woolies so I can have a cheaper mortgage?? The mortgage would still be around $500 a week. I would be lucky to find a job that paid that kind of money unless there was a dramatic shift in the business's in this town.



Um...well...personally I don't think there is anything wrong with working at woolies, and secondly I can't really answer your question, because i don't regard money too highly anyway, and regardless of my earning potential,I would still be at home with my kids.:)

[KarniF00l]

But it wasn't even $200 a week extra - it was $100 a week less than centrelink benefits!

Regardless of how much you get extra or less I wouldn't cheer DH on to keep doing what he is doing. Not if it's risking his life, sanity, family ect.. It isn't worth it. :)

ETA: Sorry Guv.. I thought was MD. Let me change that.

[AquaDevil78]

Guv, you shouldn't have had to explain yourself to people on a forum, like you say everyone has there own history and reasons for this that and the other. But sadly some people (i cant say the other word i want to) seem to think they know it all and are extremely judgemental.

Hopefully anyone out there who read your post has had a bit of wake up call.

Oh and one more thing in relation to unemployment... to the people who put unemployed in the "pond scum" category or the "why should i pay taxes to support them" category.

Sorry but grow up, a hell of lot of people who are unemployed are not there by choice, and have paid i'm guessing quite a lot of tax in there life time, so if they need to live off the Government until they get on there feet then so be it, your not the only one who pays taxes. These people have paid there dues too.

Yes too i have been unemployed, why because my company laid me and 20 other people off due to a restructure and i too know what is like to live off a few grand a month and then sweet f.a and until it happens to you i don't know how you can be so judgmental. :confused:

Great Post Guv! :yes:

[TwoBlue]

Closing this thread
Thanks to everyone who contributed positively