Sudanese refugees

[LovelyRita]

Does it concern anyone else when the government makes broad and generalised statements against a particular race?

The comments made by the Federal Immigration Minister, Kevin Andrews, I believe were wrong. The new policy seems to be racist. Sudanese people do not have a higher rate of criminal behaviour than the next person.

Should we base who we accept in this country on their desperate need or the supposed need of a wealthy country that should be able to help these people?

[Tam-I-Am]

I think any sweeping generalisation about any group of people based on a superficial characteristic is going to be racist (or ageist, or sexist or etc etc).

I think a LOT of the attitudes that prevail in popular culture in Australia are discriminatory, and the government, past and present (and probably future, truth be told) are very much representative of that fact. I find it disappointing that we, as adults, can't see past superficial characteristics, and take people on their OWN merits...

So, yes, I find it very disturbing.

[LovelyRita]

Thanks for responding Tam-I-Am, I though I was going to be talking to myself then. :p

[Baldie's Mum]

yes i think it is wrong that there is generalisation of people......but also i think it is human nature to do so.......i am guilty of it. :shame: :o but i try sooooo hard!
There is generalization everywhere.......i have a thread started average australian, generalized there!!!! the labor party has mentioned a few times that they are there for the average aussie.

but i do not think it is wrong to look at an INDIVIDUALS record beofre they immagrate.

[LovelyRita]

Ains, most of them don't even have records. They have been living in a country torn by the longest civil war the world has ever seen. This isn't about immigration, it is about refugees who desperately need help.

[Baldie's Mum]

oh yes i fully understand that and i am thankful EVERY sigle day that i am in a coutry that is in a position to help others because that is what i think being human is!!!!!

But if the country leaders dont check whatever they can they are not doing their job properly....i am sure thats the roll of an imagration minister....:rolleyes: ;)

[LovelyRita]

But what this policy is about is not checking the individual out, it is reducing the number of people coming from a specific group.

[Jacks Mummy]

I understand what your saying mrmeanmustard but I feel with ains, I really think that they should find a way to check not just stop them. Alot of these people are good and willing to abide by our rules and laws but there are those that are bringing there country fights in and starting them up here. This is sort of a slap in the face to us who let them come here for the sake of starting a new life away from the trouble of their own countries. I think this is where we may have to take a one strike and your out stand. Lets face it to media doesnt help either.

[draught]

What policies like this overlook is that the majority of crime, violence, etc isn't perpetrated by new immigrants - it is perpetrated by old immigrants - from the 'first settlers' from England, on down. How sad that a whole country of people who are desperate and looking for a better life are tainted by the actions of a minority. Particularly when long term residents of this country behave worse than that on a daily basis. maybe we could kick a few of them out if we are going to take a stand of removing those who carry on fights etc......

[Phyllis Stein]

What policies like this overlook is that the majority of crime, violence, etc isn't perpetrated by new immigrants - it is perpetrated by old immigrants - from the 'first settlers' from England, on down. How sad that a whole country of people who are desperate and looking for a better life are tainted by the actions of a minority. Particularly when long term residents of this country behave worse than that on a daily basis. maybe we could kick a few of them out if we are going to take a stand of removing those who carry on fights etc......

I agree 100%. Unfortunately, it's simply more 'visible' when people from 'different' backgrounds act badly.

I used to manage an op-shop in an area with a high proportion of Sudanese refugees, and was appalled at the racist attitude of some of my older staff. Unfortunately, comments like Kevin Andrews' simply reinforce these kinds of views. :thumbsdown:

[nemosmum]

grrrr dont get me started:banghead:

[forbetoel]

Does it concern anyone else when the government makes broad and generalised statements against a particular race?

The comments made by the Federal Immigration Minister, Kevin Andrews, I believe were wrong. The new policy seems to be racist. Sudanese people do not have a higher rate of criminal behaviour than the next person.

Should we base who we accept in this country on their desperate need or the supposed need of a wealthy country that should be able to help these people?


I agree %100 with what you are saying....... however it does concern me the violent nature of a lot the crimes they seem to be commiting. I realise they have had the most horrible, horrible, violent upbrining, but I guess is does scare me how desensitised(really bad spelling there) they are to vilence. And look here I am generalising myself.:shame: It may be the media's fault, I don't know, but I am a regular reader of the daily paper, and they seem to report very horrific and violent crimes commited by the sudanese. I really seem to be contradicting myself, but I know they are not all like this. I have helped new Sudanese refugee's how to cook, how to use our ovens, and cook the basics like scones and cakes, and they are absolutely lovely, so I have no real answer, and yes the policy seems racist.....I am going to give up, I make no sense at all.

[Silvana]

TBH, it would be nice if we focused on our own people in this country first before helping anyone else. There are thousands that are homeless but don't receive the same benefits. Remember the phrase "charity starts at home"? I truly believe this. This has nothing to do with the Sudanese, but anyone illegally entering the country.

A place I used to work for used to go over to Sudan and actually recruit them and bring them back to work. All well and good, but there are people here who need jobs. The difference is they would work for next to nothing. This was also a dangerous job (involving knives) and they were severly incompetent and caused a lot of harm to themselves and others.

I have no problem with people entering our country, but the resources they use have to come from somewhere. The US are experiencing the same problem with the mexicans.

Second of all, our immigration policies are actually quite lenient, especially when compared to other countries. I know of a lot of european countries that just stop the ship in its tracks and make them turn around.

[MariaO]

I believe Kevin Andrew's statements were a cynical attempt to play the 'race card' on the eve of the election, a deliberate attempt to appeal to the worst of ourselves.

[forbetoel]

I believe Kevin Andrew's statements were a cynical attempt to play the 'race card' on the eve of the election, a deliberate attempt to appeal to the worst of ourselves.

You could well be right :yes:

[Baldie's Mum]

long term residents of this country behave worse than that on a daily basis. maybe we could kick a few of them out if we are going to take a stand of removing those who carry on fights etc......

i hate to say it but i really wish there was an island where all the crims went!!! the real bad ones who will never see the light of day again because of their horrible acts! :eek: :o :yes:


TBH, it would be nice if we focused on our own people in this country first before helping anyone else. There are thousands that are homeless but don't receive the same benefits. Remember the phrase "charity starts at home"? I truly believe this.
I have no problem with people entering our country, but the resources they use have to come from somewhere.

it would be nice if we could have a perfect country where everyone has the oppertunity to make an exciting and wonderful life for themselfs.....

I also wish we could fix the other counties and not have to remove people out of their original places of birth away from their familiy members. My mum started a tradition at christmas....ever sinc we were old enough to realise santa isnt a real person she gave us chrity presents. eg it costs $100 for a well in a town in ethiopia $50 for a goat for a family.......ect so every year the only presents that i give (excpt to little kiddies) are wells, goats, seeds, farmig equiptment, beeds, cooking stuff, schooling, health care....ect! It goes directly to the people and helps them out more than moving away from their mother land!!!! :yelclap:

[LovelyRita]

TBH, it would be nice if we focused on our own people in this country first before helping anyone else. There are thousands that are homeless but don't receive the same benefits. Remember the phrase "charity starts at home"? I truly believe this. This has nothing to do with the Sudanese, but anyone illegally entering the country.

A place I used to work for used to go over to Sudan and actually recruit them and bring them back to work. All well and good, but there are people here who need jobs. The difference is they would work for next to nothing. This was also a dangerous job (involving knives) and they were severly incompetent and caused a lot of harm to themselves and others.

I have no problem with people entering our country, but the resources they use have to come from somewhere. The US are experiencing the same problem with the mexicans.

Second of all, our immigration policies are actually quite lenient, especially when compared to other countries. I know of a lot of european countries that just stop the ship in its tracks and make them turn around.

I agree with you on the point about help people at home, we should be doing more but that doesn't mean we can't do any less for others as well.

We have the resources to help these people. WE are wealthy country with extremely low unemployment. This isn't about how great our policies are overall in regards to refugees, it's about policies that discriminate based on race.


I believe Kevin Andrew's statements were a cynical attempt to play the 'race card' on the eve of the election, a deliberate attempt to appeal to the worst of ourselves.

I agree.

[Bron]

This new policy is horribly racist, outdated and nasty.

Policies of integration and assimilation went out in the 70s, when policies of multiculturalism came in.

Yet ANOTHER reason not to vote for the coalition on 24 November.

[MariaO]

The thing is , if I interpreted it correctly, the policy change, happened months ago and was not for the reasons as given by Kevin Andrews. The decision was made to focus refugee intake on Pacific and Middle East, rather than African sub contintent.I think this meant to reduce the proportion of refugees form Africa. This was agreed with the UN as that was seen as the greatest area of need. Th

This was then rebranded by Mr Andrews a couple of weeks ago.

I am almost certain that this is what happened - I will look for an article or some such to back this up just in case I am delusional.

[LovelyRita]

I read the same article Maria, so you are right. I'll have to do a search for it again.

[MariaO]

Here is a partial transcript from the Insiders show where Tony Burke (Alp immigration spokesman) was being interviewed by Barrie Cassidy.

TONY BURKE: This is something that has been mooted for more than a year and a half, and it was done in the context, and the reasons were given publicly by Kevin Andrews that the context was the situation in Burma and the situation in Iraq.
The total number of refugees coming to Australia remained completely unchanged, what happened, though, was that there would be extra numbers who would be coming from Asia and the Middle East. That's how it was re balanced.

BARRIE CASSIDY: But why? Why should that happen?


TONY BURKE: Well, previously, the African numbers had run at record highs, and what has happening then, the people, there was about 150,000 people, who'd been on the Thai-Burma border for more than 15 years. The Thai Government has been putting pressure on the United Nations agencies, saying, 'Can you please start relocating these people?'
Australia, understandably, has a particular obligation in Asia. They are the reasons Kevin Andrews gave for the decision months ago, the same reasons that Amanda Vanstone gave when she flagged it.


So if this is a rebranding by Kevin Andrews, which is what it appears to be, then you really have to question his motives in my opinion.

[Phyllis Stein]

So if this is a rebranding by Kevin Andrews, which is what it appears to be, then you really have to question his motives in my opinion.

I have no doubt about it. Honestly, without a 9/11 or a Tampa incident, the coalition had to come up with something! :rolleyes:

[GirlGerms]

I live in an area in Brisbane where there are many, many Sudanese refugees and they are mostly really good people. The young boys can be a little intimidating at times, but I'm sure young Aussie boys would be as well if they were as big as these guys (which I'm sure they all wish they were). I find the best thing to do is to say "Hi, how are you?" when you walk past them at night. Instantly, you break down the barriers. More often than not they're extremely polite, and unlike so many Aussies, they'll say "I'm good, thanks, how are you?" rather than "Good" (a pet hate of mine).

It's interesting to see how different cultures raise our children. They come from an obviously dangerous part of the world, and feel so free and secure when they arrive here they they are much more inclined to let their kids walk the streets (albeit during the day) - something which most of us wouldn't dare do. I've had some minor issues with 8 - 12 year old Sudanese kids throwing rocks at my dogs, rattling the front gate etc. to the point where my dogs now go beserk whenever Sudanese people of any age walk past.

My very first thought when Kevin Andrews made his dispicable remarks was "Here we go - fishing for the bogan vote!", which is exactly what he was doing. They do it regularly - if they're not targeting Vietnamese or Lebanese, they're targeting another cultural group. It's pathetic, really.

On a per capita basis, Australia really lets in very, very few refugees (do the research and you will see what I mean) in comparison to other countries and I find this disgusting. It's important to provide refuge for these people and to help them integrate into society - that takes time and money.

Personally, I plan to look into ways of helping the African community next year, when I finish working (for however long that may be). As long as I can bring Peanut along, I'd love to help the African community integrate, and the Australian community be more understanding.

[Tea Lady]

On a per capita basis, Australia really lets in very, very few refugees (do the research and you will see what I mean) in comparison to other countries and I find this disgusting. It's important to provide refuge for these people and to help them integrate into society - that takes time and money.

I totally agree. I think it's appalling that we take so few refugees. :(

I get very depressed that before every election the gov't finds some lame way to appeal to the public's racist tendencies.... the worst thing is that it seems to work. :thumbsdown:

[GirlGerms]

It's reassuring to note that there have been no support for Mr Andrew's comments on this site.

We must be an alright bunch!

:yelclap:

[forbetoel]

It's reassuring to note that there have been no support for Mr Andrew's comments on this site.

We must be an alright bunch!

:yelclap:

Yes we must be!!!!!:thumbsup: :)

[our little treasures]

Shame in real life it wasn't like it is on here. We had a lovely sudanese lady and baby come to our ANGLICAN church playgroup and Noone talked to her, the kids were directed away. I was bf across the room and I actually went and chatted with her bub and her. Then I overheard the playgroup leader in the kitchen asking my friend (who had just walked in) to sit and chat with her as noone was talking to her.:eek:
This is from good christians who attend church etc.
I was so upset for her as I wondered if I wasn't a light koori would they have done the same. I know the answer:crying:

[Duchessa]

Ooo another one of these lovely agreeable threads :)

MariaO, I don't think you are delusional at all - you are spot on :thumbsup:

It really freaks me out that so many of the Australian public will accept such racist and bigoted statements without question.

[forbetoel]

Shame in real life it wasn't like it is on here. We had a lovely sudanese lady and baby come to our ANGLICAN church playgroup and Noone talked to her, the kids were directed away. I was bf across the room and I actually went and chatted with her bub and her. Then I overheard the playgroup leader in the kitchen asking my friend (who had just walked in) to sit and chat with her as noone was talking to her.:eek:
This is from good christians who attend church etc.
I was so upset for her as I wondered if I wasn't a light koori would they have done the same. I know the answer:crying:

Well my kids go to a Catholic school, and a whole group of mums have organised an ongoing group for once a month to have a bus of Sudanese women come down to our local parish hall for cooking lessons. We funded it by a couple of casual dress days for the kids. The Sudanese women loved it, and we taught them the basics, such as scones, and cakes etc. The Sudanese women loved it, and for some of them had used an oven for the first time! I am just posting this to show that there are accepting, kind people out there, and I am proud to say that the women who initiated this program are my own dear friends. :kiss:

[Acacia]

The first thing i thought when Kevin Andrews made that comment was 'well i bet the Muslim are having a sigh of relief.' Now there is a new target.

A couple of weeks ago on Media watch there was a great segment on the commercial channels news reports on 'sudanese gangs' and it was unbelievable. The footage the shows such as today tonight were using was of a group of non sudanese people. The only sudanese guy in the footage was standing on the outter and was later bashed to death. My biggest saddness was that the people that were watching shows like today tonight probably wouldn't be watching media watch.

[Lil Mamma]

TBH, it would be nice if we focused on our own people in this country first before helping anyone else. There are thousands that are homeless but don't receive the same benefits. Remember the phrase "charity starts at home"? I truly believe this.

I disagree, the government takes care of its own people already, and homeless people are the first on the list for government housing. Also mothers and children who come from households of domestic violence get priority. If they need a job there is newstart Centrelink allowance until they get on their feet. Im not sure what people complain about in terms of help and financial support, being suddenly left on my own with 2 children and no child support from my ex I can see for myself just how much help there is available for those who need it. We have free health care, counsellors etc. no one goes without, what more do you want????

[Lil Mamma]

Second of all, our immigration policies are actually quite lenient, especially when compared to other countries. I know of a lot of european countries that just stop the ship in its tracks and make them turn around.

Better to make them go back then to lock children up in cells away from their parents for 5+ years, leaving them psychologically scarred for life among many other atrocious things that happen to people escaping war and famine! I personally know of teenagers who were locked up as kids and are dealing with serious psychological problems as a result of this :mad:

[Lil Mamma]

The first thing i thought when Kevin Andrews made that comment was 'well i bet the Muslim are having a sigh of relief.' Now there is a new target

Acacia, as a muslim woman, I was not breathing a sigh of relief, it'll be a long time before people get off our backs. I was disgusted actually, especially when ms. hanson made a comment referring to africans, along the lines of "these people are bringing aids and diseases into our country, do you want your children getting aids??" :eek:

I know lots of africans that have immigrated here and they are the lovliest, most generous people :) Its sad that one group is always the scapegoat, let everyone be and start focussing on the real criminals - the murderers, rapists etc.!!

[Silvana]

Better to make them go back then to lock children up in cells away from their parents for 5+ years, leaving them psychologically scarred for life among many other atrocious things that happen to people escaping war and famine! I personally know of teenagers who were locked up as kids and are dealing with serious psychological problems as a result of this :mad:

I don't agree with detention (where did it say that I did?), but if we did turn them away, people would complain about that too. And to go a little off topic, a lot of these people bypass a hell of a lot of countries before they get here, and I think that is what annoys the majority the most.

In response to government housing - it is actually quite poor. There are many people who have been on waiting lists for years. In fact, there are people on this forum that have been waiting for quite a while for housing. As for counselling services, they have long waiting lists and are not as widely available as you think. Regional areas are the worst.

No need to jump down my throat and don't put words in my mouth.

[canberramomma]

As I say to my incredibly judgmental maternal parent "the only reason you target muslims/indigenous australians/same sex relationships/asians/greeks/italians/pacific islanders/arabs/'P' platers/ is that they are visibly different to you!

One of the hangovers/reincarnations of the white australia policy.

[forbetoel]

As I say to my incredibly judgmental maternal parent white australia policy.

How did you turn out so different?:)

[Elfin]

Personally I found this to be very sad. I don't see what Kevin Andrews sees. I know a few Sudanese families who are so far from criminal thugs. They are very lovely friendly people who are so happy to be in Australia to start a new life. I think we should be welcoming them not making them feel unwelcome.

I think it is pretty poor form to single them out and even if it is true that they are having trouble settling in then how about the Government offering more support and assistance to help rather than vilifying and fuelling xenaphobia.

[Acacia]

Acacia, as a muslim woman, I was not breathing a sigh of relief, it'll be a long time before people get off our backs. I was disgusted actually, especially when ms. hanson made a comment referring to africans, along the lines of "these people are bringing aids and diseases into our country, do you want your children getting aids??" :eek:

I know lots of africans that have immigrated here and they are the lovliest, most generous people :) Its sad that one group is always the scapegoat, let everyone be and start focussing on the real criminals - the murderers, rapists etc.!!

Im sorry i didnt mean to down play the current issues muslims are facing in Australia. I was just thinking that the media hype has turned to another race very suddenly just as it has gone from Asians to Aboriginal to Italian to Greek to Lebanese to Sudanese and around again. I don't really understand this but i think it has a lot to do with the fear factor and picking a target to use as a way of taking the focus of other issues. Its all very brave new world, and the only reason it is happening is because the general population are responding to it. People are forgetting that we are ALL immigrants if we are not Aboriginal. Why not pick on the original immigrants that all came from criminal stock. The nation has been founded on Robbers, murderers, prostitutes and petty thieves. Most with a variety of infectious diseases....hmmm

And Pauline Hanson...my god does anyone else find it repulsive that she was turned into some sort of celebrity role model on shows like dancing with the stars....what does that say about our country?

[Elfin]

And Pauline Hanson...my god does anyone else find it repulsive that she was turned into some sort of celebrity role model on shows like dancing with the stars....what does that say about our country?


I so agree with this.

[Lil Mamma]

I agree with everything you said Acacia :yes: It is election time and the Liberal party are using the Sudanese "issue" as a fear campaign, what really bothers me is that Rudd has not come out and opposed this??? Very disappointing, I wont be voting for either of them

[Acacia]

I think Rudd hasn't come out against it because it is obviously an election winner....remember the Tampa?

I always vote greens, but i swear if liberals get in again i will have no faith in our 'democratically' voted in government cos its obviously rigged.