Which Party Gets Your Vote and Why?

[SalTheGal]

Thought it might be good to start a thread asking people who they will vote for and why.


Now- Just a disclaimer! :D
It would be nice for this thread to be about positive reasons that go towards your decision for supporting a party....

NOT derogatory reasons about the party you are voting against.

NO MUDSLINGING!

Lets try and keep it factual and policy based, please no slander and mud slinging against the other side.

If you are really passionate about a particular party- then here is your chance to let everyone know why you think they are so great!

[our little treasures]

LABOR all the way:smiliedance:
I think the Liberals need a shake up:yes:

[Baldie's Mum]

Anyway, I am going Liberal because I own a small business that not only looks after me and my family but looks after 10 separate families. If labor gets in my business will be sent to the tip! therefore i will have to go and find a job and forget about the other families I help support... They have no real policies for small businesses, well none that protect them anyway. I kinda expected labor to have a good small business policy as K Rudd owns and runs a business! (doesn't he wonder whats going to happen to his business?):eek:

[SalTheGal]

Track Record for me.....

"Under the Coalition, Australia’s economy has grown by more than 40 per cent in real terms. Real household wealth has more than doubled. Our growth rate has been among the strongest in the developed world. Unemployment has fallen to a 33 year low and inflation is also down. Australia’s economic growth remains strong and broadly-based in what is now the longest economic expansion in our history


Under the Coalition, unemployment has fallen from 8.2 per cent in March 1996 to 4.3 per cent in August 2007. More than 2.1 million jobs have been created and more than 1.2 million of these have been full-time jobs. There are now more people in work than ever before. In the last three years alone, 864,000 jobs have been created – about the same number as in the last seven and a half years of Labor (from September 1988 to March 1996). Almost 418,000 jobs have been created under the new workplace laws introduced in March 2006. An astonishing 84 per cent of these jobs have been full-time jobs, a dramatic reversal of previous trends.


The number of small businesses has risen to 1.9 million under the Coalition and a World Bank study ranks Australia as the second easiest economy in the world in which to start a business. Small businesses account for almost half of private sector employment and the number of small businesses employing staff has risen by 30 per cent in the last four years alone."

http://www.liberal.org.au/about/documents/AustraliaStrongProsperousAndSecure.pdf

I am confident forging ahead within the economy that Liberal have created. I think we are in the strongest position to bring up children into a society that has great prospects...I know that Liberal are not perfect- hell no political party is! But I think they have done a great job so far turning this country around and I have confidence that they can continue, as the saying goes "if it aint broke- don't fix it!"

:)

[Baldie's Mum]

The number of small businesses has risen to 1.9 million under the Coalition and a World Bank study ranks Australia as the second easiest economy in the world in which to start a business. Small businesses account for almost half of private sector employment and the number of small businesses employing staff has risen by 30 per cent in the last four years alone."

I know that Liberal are not perfect- hell no political party is! But I think they have done a great job so far turning this country around and I have confidence that they can continue, as the saying goes "if it aint broke- don't fix it!"



:smiliedance: :smiliedance: :smiliedance: - thats for the small business inclution
:smiliedance: :smiliedance: :smiliedance: -thats for the quote!!! LOVES IT! "if it aint broke-dont fix it"
I wish NSW had this quote in the last state election where labor got in AGAIN... People NSW is broken!

[forbetoel]

I will vote Labor because I trust them to better look after the enviroment, healthcare, and education. Labor are more in touch with the average worker. There are a lot more reasons, but I would have to go into all the negatives of the Liberal Party, which you have asked us not to do. :)

[SalTheGal]

I will vote Labor because I trust them to better look after the enviroment, healthcare, and education. Labor are more in touch with the average worker. There are a lot more reasons, but I would have to go into all the negatives of the Liberal Party, which you have asked us not to do. :)

Feel free- so long as it isn't "personal mudslinging" if that makes sense, I would love to hear what you have to say....I think if you need to give examples of what Lib's have done wrong then by all means go for it....but I would love to hear what Labour are going to do right also!

(jeepers I sound like a total thread bossy boots don't I!!) :o :D

[our little treasures]

National sorry day
IR
National housing crisis
Healthcare
and the list is sooo long that I couldn't be bothered.

My mother owns a small business but actually has more cons with liberal:yes:

[Glitterbug1980]

Liberal all the way baby! :yelclap:

I agree withe the "if it aint broke, don't fix it".

[mollymoosmum]

:smiliedance: Go Kevin 07:smiliedance:
.... because he's a spunk!:p

[Roxy]

I haven't fully decided yet who will get my vote, apart from my senate vote (have worked that out!). I may not vote for either of the major parties yet - will see what comes out in the media over the next 6 weeks.



"if it aint broke, don't fix it".

See - I think that there are parts that are "broke" and do need fixing. Our healthcare system doesn't service everyone who needs it and it misses crucial areas like timely dental care for those desperately need it and can't afford it. Our environment has been badly neglected, and whilst a good economy is important, it's no good if we can't survive on this planet because we ruined it trying to get wealthy.

[Bron]

Why am I voting Labor?

Because I want a government who will apologise to our indigenous people, not because they are suddenly scared of politicial ramifications, but because it is the right thing to do. I want a government who will acknowledge that global warming is a serious issue and sign the Kyoto protocol to back that up. I want a government who will treat refugees and asylum seekers with the compassion they deserve, not turn them away. I want a government who acknowledges that the war in Iraq was the wrong decision to make. I want a government who takes the time to realise that unions provide workers with support, advice and information when they most need it.

Money isn't everything, although I think that a Labor government would provide perfectly good economic leadership. Whether or not I personally benefit is immaterial. I care about other people and the bigger picture.

That's why.

[forbetoel]

Why am I voting Labor?

Because I want a government who will apologise to our indigenous people, not because they are suddenly scared of politicial ramifications, but because it is the right thing to do. I want a government who will acknowledge that global warming is a serious issue and sign the Kyoto protocol to back that up. I want a government who will treat refugees and asylum seekers with the compassion they deserve, not turn them away. I want a government who acknowledges that the war in Iraq was the wrong decision to make. I want a government who takes the time to realise that unions provide workers with support, advice and information when they most need it.

Money isn't everything, although I think that a Labor government would provide perfectly good economic leadership. Whether or not I personally benefit is immaterial. I care about other people and the bigger picture.

That's why.

:thumbsup: :smiliedance: :yelclap: :)

[Mamaduke]

Oh Bron Bron Bron...
what are we going to do with you? :hair:

[Ana Gram]

Liberal. K.Rudd disgusts me.

[V8]

I don't know who i'll vote for.... But i am over Johnny Howard. I think we need a change.

[Baldie's Mum]

i the liberal voter also care about other people....so much so that this is why i am voting liberal....so my business an stay afloat and i can keep on employing 10 people and help their families out!;)

[Baldie's Mum]

I don't know who i'll vote for.... But i am over Johnny Howard. I think we need a change.

"If it aint broke-then dont fix it" :yelclap:

[V8]

"If it aint broke-then dont fix it" :yelclap:

I think some things definately need fixing though, i'd rather go with the slogan, 'better the devil you know'.

But all seriousness Ains, i'd like to ask you a question, you have said why you won't vote labour but could you explain how you are better off under liberal as a small business owner. I am curious as my Dad shares the same opinion that for him as a small business owner Liberal is better, but i haven't actually asked him, why is it better? I have to admit i normally just vote how my parents do as i have no political understanding in my body. :o shame i know!

[Baldie's Mum]

I am trying to find a basic layout of liberal policies on small business but i cant do it.....i am so computer special.....:o


basically they offer a better range of support for us. I am trying to word this without sounding crazy and authoratarian.....:o There are tax cuts, incentives, oppertunities, guidance, and flexabilities that come with the liberals. They offer support in the work place and give the business owner options.

i have read over that and i know it sounds sh!tty, so i am going to try and find this page that i have read 10000 times before....:rolleyes:
sorry

[tooshypanda]

Labor - cause I am commie red :)

I have never voted before and I am going Labour - mainly because Kevin Rudd is a cutie pie.. and he will serve the whole term rather than just get elected and hand over to smirky features (Costello) like John Howard will.

I am not a hippie but to be the only other country not to sign the Kyoto protocol makes us look like USA lapdogs and hicks..

I work for a Union too - so I have been perverted by the socialists..

[Baldie's Mum]

http://www.liberal.org.au/about/documents/ENCOURAGINGSMALLBUSINESS.pdf


hopefully that helps a little.....:)

[Baldie's Mum]

http://www.industry.gov.au/assets/documents/itrinternet/Encouraging_Enterprise_Growing_Your_Business_2006_ 0720070724143257.pdf


you could read this if you want but it is 104 pages of proof that the liberals are working for australias small businesses!!!:yes: :eek: :p

[V8]

Thanks Ains, i appreciate that, will have a read of that doc. :)

[spoon]

There are many policies that have gained my vote. One inparticular is this

Foriegn debt barter agreement.
http://www.alp.org.au/media/0607/msida060.php

I love ALP's approach to relationships with the asian region for which we are part of.

I HATE Liberals approach to America. Our relationship has cost us Greatly.

[spoon]

Their approach to climate change.

http://www.alp.org.au/media/1007/speCCenh100.php

I find the Liberals approach appauling.:thumbsdown: Really Mr Howard, you have nothing:no:

[forbetoel]

http://www.industry.gov.au/assets/documents/itrinternet/Encouraging_Enterprise_Growing_Your_Business_2006_ 0720070724143257.pdf


you could read this if you want but it is 104 pages of proof that the liberals are working for australias small businesses!!!:yes: :eek: :p

No that is O.K I am pretty sure business is high on their agenda, that is what the new IR laws were for. :roleyes: Now if they would just start giving a cr@p about the worker.

[SalTheGal]

2boys2love and ains.....do you guys ever go to sleep?!?!? :D :p

[forbetoel]

2boys2love and ains.....do you guys ever go to sleep?!?!? :D :p

Just thinking the same thing!!!!!

[LovelyRita]

Have you read the ALP's Small Business policies Ains? If not I can help you out with a link.

I am voting Greens for a variety of reasons. Their approach to climate change and the environment, actually doing something to move towards reconciliation with indigenous Australian's, moves towards changing the state of education and the health system and their policies in regards to gay marriage are also a positive.

I'm voting for what is best for the country. I believe that there is an inbalance at the moment. The coalition have been doing what they want (for the last few years especially) and I think there is a portion of our population that is missing out. I really hope the balance is restored.

[Baldie's Mum]

:gloomy: ohhhhhh god bless the flu.....I cant sleep cause i cant breath......:gloomy:

4boys2love.....i couldnt possible understand why you woulnt want to read 104 pages at 11pm....come on:p

[Phyllis Stein]

I'm voting Greens... but the reason I'm voting on the left is that I believe that the leadership of the country is about much more than the management of the economy, or the immediate, short-term benefits to some.

IMO, the Liberals under Howard have moved Australia so far to the right it's scary. His divisive (ab)use of minority/ disadvantaged groups for political gain has altered who we are as a country. People are much more competitive, much readier to walk over others in their pursuit of individual gain, and that saddens me.

There are many 'small-l' Libs on the backbench of the government who also think the party has moved too far to the right.

It's because I look at the US, and see the failure of the very policies that Howard is so eagerly pursuing.

Because economic growth does not simply "trickle down" and benefit all Australians. It's benefits are determined by government policies. The left has a stronger ethos of distributing wealth equitably.

It's because I get my information about the welfare of broader Australia from groups like ACOSS, not from the government's spin machine - and the picture is very bleak.

It's because I believe the Liberal's climate policy amounts to "let the market take care of it" (except they're ready to heavily subsidise the development of nuclear power :thumbsdown:). This is at a time when some of Australia's best green energy scientists are leaving our shores for lack of funding and support!

I could go on and on. Honestly, name an area of political activity, and I'll give you a reason I'm voting on the left.

[forbetoel]

Have you read the ALP's Small Business policies Ains? If not I can help you out with a link.


I'm voting for what is best for the country. I believe that there is an inbalance at the moment. The coalition have been doing what they want (for the last few years especially) and I think there is a portion of our population that is missing out. I really hope the balance is restored.

Yes ains you should read that link that Meanmrmustard offered. A lot of small business owners just vote liberal assuming they will better look after small business, with very little research of their own.
MeanMrMustard, the last part of your post.....Totally agree :thumbsup:

[Baldie's Mum]

Have you read the ALP's Small Business policies Ains? If not I can help you out with a link.


push it through, cause even though i have had a look it would be help-ful for others and also its good to get it out there!!! :hugs: thanks! xoxo

[LovelyRita]

I'm voting Greens... but the reason I'm voting on the left is that I believe that the leadership of the country is about much more than the management of the economy, or the immediate, short-term benefits to some.

IMO, the Liberals under Howard have moved Australia so far to the right it's scary. His divisive (ab)use of minority/ disadvantaged groups for political gain has altered who we are as a country. People are much more competitive, much readier to walk over others in their pursuit of individual gain, and that saddens me.

There are many 'small-l' Libs on the backbench of the government who also think the party has moved too far to the right.

It's because I look at the US, and see the failure of the very policies that Howard is so eagerly pursuing.

Because economic growth does not simply "trickle down" and benefit all Australians. It's benefits are determined by government policies. The left has a stronger ethos of distributing wealth equitably.

It's because I get my information about the welfare of broader Australia from groups like ACOSS, not from the government's spin machine - and the picture is very bleak.

It's because I believe the Liberal's climate policy amounts to "let the market take care of it" (except they're ready to heavily subsidise the development of nuclear power :thumbsdown:). This is at a time when some of Australia's best green energy scientists are leaving our shores for lack of funding and support!

I could go on and on. Honestly, name an area of political activity, and I'll give you a reason I'm voting on the left.

:yelclap: :yelclap: You say it all much better than I do!


push it through, cause even though i have had a look it would be help-ful for others and also its good to get it out there!!! :hugs: thanks! xoxo


Sure. ;)
http://www.alp.org.au/policy/index.php#small_business

[kccmylife]

Can someone answer this for me please??

If I was to vote Greens and they don't win (which we know they won't) who do their votes go to, Liberal or Labour?? That is what happens, doesn't it?? I am not being a smart *** but am genuinely asking and looking for an answer!

[forbetoel]

Can someone answer this for me please??

If I was to vote Greens and they don't win (which we know they won't) who do their votes go to, Liberal or Labour?? That is what happens, doesn't it?? I am not being a smart *** but am genuinely asking and looking for an answer!

Well it is sort of a two horse race, so giving your first preference to the Greens is a great way of letting the 2 major parties know that we Australians want the enviroment given a top priority. You could give your 2nd preference to one of the major parties, so technically that second preference would be an important vote, but so would your 1st one too. Hope that makes sense!!

[Ana Gram]

That is my understanding. In my mind a vote for the Greens is not actually a vote for the Greens. They will not win, so you should look at who they give their preferences to, because that is essentially who you are voting for.

[LovelyRita]

The Greens give their preferences to the Labor party.

[Mamaduke]

It amuses me that when someone says "I'm voting Liberal because I'm a small business owner" they're seen as not having undertaken any research to come up with that decision and that they're somehow naive in their thinking.
Yet when someone says "I'm voting Labor because it's...
time for a change (personally I think that's the most ridiculous reason to change Government)
Labor cares more about the worker
Labor cares more about the environment
Labor cares more about social issues
I vote for the good of the country"
They haven't been in power for 11 years, how do you know all of these things for sure?
Labor's had a decade of sh*t canning and 'We're gonna do this, we're gonna do that" promises...doesn't mean they'll actually do any of them if elected, I mean, have they come up with a policy yet? They were caught off guard with Liberal's tax cuts announcement - it's campaign time KRuddy, if you're not ready now? :eek:

[LovelyRita]

As I've said I'm voting Greens (which essentially is a vote for Labor). All I can say in regards to promises is that I'd rather vote for these promises than for 11 years of inaction. :thumbsup:

[mumzdaword]

Labour...im not going in to the reasons why but i do have my reasons...

[Roopee]

It amuses me that when someone says "I'm voting Liberal because I'm a small business owner" they're seen as not having undertaken any research to come up with that decision and that they're somehow naive in their thinking.
Yet when someone says "I'm voting Labor because it's...
time for a change (personally I think that's the most ridiculous reason to change Government)
Labor cares more about the worker
Labor cares more about the environment
Labor cares more about social issues
I vote for the good of the country"
They haven't been in power for 11 years, how do you know all of these things for sure?
Labor's had a decade of sh*t canning and 'We're gonna do this, we're gonna do that" promises...doesn't mean they'll actually do any of them if elected, I mean, have they come up with a policy yet? They were caught off guard with Liberal's tax cuts announcement - it's campaign time KRuddy, if you're not ready now? :eek:

Yep! Maybe the should change their name to the "gunna party?"
:laughing::laughing:
Im on fire today!

[Roopee]

:smiliedance: Go Kevin 07:smiliedance:
.... because he's a spunk!:p



Your kidding right????? Eeeewwwww:laughing::laughing:

[Madi]

Labor....

Because regardless of policy and politicians, the ideology of the left is far more palatable. To me, all the tax cuts and small business concessions in the world mean nothing when stacked up against positive work towards healthy long term environmental and educational goals.

I would vote for labor regardless of who was leader, as I believe that the economic centric outlook the political right have is socially divisive and culturally damaging.

[Phyllis Stein]

Labor....

Because regardless of policy and politicians, the ideology of the left is far more palatable. To me, all the tax cuts and small business concessions in the world mean nothing when stacked up against positive work towards healthy long term environmental and educational goals.

I would vote for labor regardless of who was leader, as I believe that the economic centric outlook the political right have is socially divisive and culturally damaging.

Yep! :yes: :thumbsup: :D ;)

[ShadyCharacter]

As I've said I'm voting Greens (which essentially is a vote for Labor). All I can say in regards to promises is that I'd rather vote for these promises than for 11 years of inaction. :thumbsup:
Those were my thoughts too.

As far as the whole 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it' attitude... I think 'broke' is very subjective. In my mind it IS bloody broke!

[forbetoel]

As far as the whole 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it' attitude... I think 'broke' is very subjective. In my mind it IS bloody broke!

Well the economy is not broken, I think that is all the liberal party count, as they surely could not be referring to the enviroment, health and education, when making such statements.

[Bron]

It amuses me that when someone says "I'm voting Liberal because I'm a small business owner" they're seen as not having undertaken any research to come up with that decision and that they're somehow naive in their thinking.
Yet when someone says "I'm voting Labor because it's...
time for a change (personally I think that's the most ridiculous reason to change Government)
Labor cares more about the worker
Labor cares more about the environment
Labor cares more about social issues
I vote for the good of the country"
They haven't been in power for 11 years, how do you know all of these things for sure?
Labor's had a decade of sh*t canning and 'We're gonna do this, we're gonna do that" promises...doesn't mean they'll actually do any of them if elected

It's called ideology Mamaduke.

I mean, why did you decide to vote liberal in 1996 (assuming you did!). They'd been in opposition for 13 years so how did you know anything for sure?

If you want reasons other than ideological ones, sure, here I go.

"Never ever" introduce a GST and look what happened.
Massive funding cuts to universities, making education unobtainable for some.
Differential HECS, leading to some students graduating already over $40 000 in debt.
Children overboard
Using the Tampa incident to try to tell us that terrorists arrive in leaky boats.
A pointless and inhumane war in Iraq where innocent Iraqis are being killed still, and in greater numbers than they were before the invasion.
Denying climate change and refusing to ratify the Kyoto protocol.
Racist immigration policies - recently cutting the humanitarain program from Africa because "they don't assimilate" (Bearing in mind we are a multicultural country, assimilation policies went out in the 70s).
Refusal to apologise to indigenous Australians.
Workchoices - if he really thought it was good for Australia, why didn't he introduce it when it could have been properly debated in the Senate? Using a senate majority like that is so sneaky and cynical.
Trying to tell people that they should vote for him last time because he could keep interest rates low, when, let's face it, the reserve bank is independent. Then when interest rates increased, telling us that it wasn't his fault because, guess what, the reserve bank is independent.
Did you see Four Corners on Monday night about deals with fringe religious groups?

I could go on, and on and on.....

[SassyMummy]

I am voting labor.

I see it as a 2 horse race... so who have I got to put my bets on? There's someone who is promising me what I want (and may or may not pull through), and then there's someone who has been in power for a long time and hasn't given me what I want, as a young mother on a low-income.

Kevin Rudd might not pull through for me, but I'm taking my chances. I'd rather put my vote to him, and find out he's just as bad as the alternative, than just stick to the "bad alternative" just in case Rudd doesn't stick to his promises. It's a risk I'm happy to take.

I do think that Labor have the interests of someone like myself in mind far more than Liberal do. I also think they have more to offer the environment, education, health and workers.

That baby bonus was sure nice, but it's not much in the grand scheme of things, so it's not nearly enough to offer them my vote. I would appreciate free dental and more family friendly workplaces than a $3000 hand-out for having a baby (which is what I got when I had DD in 2005... I know it's gone up since then).

$3000 doesn't last long, but free dental and being able to work in an environment where I don't have to decide between my family and my job would mean much more to me. So would knowing my daughter's future school will be able to afford more than the bare minimum and provide her with a better education.

I don't agree with IR laws, I think they just make things for difficult for workers, and make life easier for employers.

People can argue with that all they want... that's my stance and I'm sticking to it.

[InSaneOne]

as the saying goes "if it aint broke- don't fix it!"

:)

i am kinda thinking the same way at the moment but i will have to wait until closer to the election to properly weigh up each sides issues. so while i am leaning towards the party that is currently in government i will rreserve judgement until i know both sides policies.

[Mamaduke]

I mean, why did you decide to vote liberal in 1996 (assuming you did!). They'd been in opposition for 13 years so how did you know anything for sure?

Do we need to revisit my very popular thread from a while back?
http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=7781&highlight=step+back+time
That's why.

[SalTheGal]

I am voting labor.

I see it as a 2 horse race... so who have I got to put my bets on? There's someone who is promising me what I want (and may or may not pull through), and then there's someone who has been in power for a long time and hasn't given me what I want, as a young mother on a low-income.

Kevin Rudd might not pull through for me, but I'm taking my chances. I'd rather put my vote to him, and find out he's just as bad as the alternative, than just stick to the "bad alternative" just in case Rudd doesn't stick to his promises. It's a risk I'm happy to take.

I do think that Labor have the interests of someone like myself in mind far more than Liberal do. I also think they have more to offer the environment, education, health and workers.

That baby bonus was sure nice, but it's not much in the grand scheme of things, so it's not nearly enough to offer them my vote. I would appreciate free dental and more family friendly workplaces than a $3000 hand-out for having a baby (which is what I got when I had DD in 2005... I know it's gone up since then).

$3000 doesn't last long, but free dental and being able to work in an environment where I don't have to decide between my family and my job would mean much more to me. So would knowing my daughter's future school will be able to afford more than the bare minimum and provide her with a better education.

I don't agree with IR laws, I think they just make things for difficult for workers, and make life easier for employers.

People can argue with that all they want... that's my stance and I'm sticking to it.

Nice post Stace, you are always so articulate!

(Not that it changes my mind on who I'm voting for :p )

[Angelmist♥]

Liberal all the way for me:D (I know, seriously who woulda thought it;))

Reasons-
1.I like that John Howard will take a stance and stick with it.
2.I like that I can attend university with no out-of-pocket costs to me until I am making a good wage (something the labor party have stated they will minimise)
3.I like that our universities aren't privatised and won't be under a liberal government.
4.I like that my husband doesn't have to deal with unions.
5.I'm one of those 'scabs' who hates unions!
6. While I do like some of their policies for federal government (ssshhhh!), labor has totally and utterly shafted QLD for way too long for me to even consider voting for them federally.
7. I believe that small business owners have rights.
8. I like that I get FTB payment for looking after my kids.
9.I hate that KRudd wants to maximise full-fee paying positions into Uni, hmm making rich richer huh!(oops or has he changed his mind on that issue after the backlash!......who knows!)
10. I hate that the labor party want to dam the Mary river and relocate hundreds of families.
11. I hate that labor will not make a stance on the Apology to the Indigenous issue.
12. I hate that the building industry have estimated that rolling back the workplace reforms will cost them $9 billion dollars.



Umm, :laughing:no doubt I will think of more!

[Baldie's Mum]

To me, all the tax cuts and small business concessions in the world mean nothing when stacked up against positive work towards healthy long term environmental and educational goals.


They will when thousands of small businesses have to shut down and you and your friends will have to start competing for jobs with people who have actually run their own businesses. IMO samll business is making the unemployment rate go down so much......Imagine a country with even 1/2 the amount of small businesses???? How many people do you think would be out of work then???? I can already think of 10 families that i employ.:eek:

[BJelly]

I'm voting Green:yes:

BTW if you vote Green you can give your preferences to whichever party you want - ALP or Coalition- you don't have to follow the "How to Vote" cards the parties hand out which outlines what preferences they prefer.

When people say a certain party's preferences go to another party that assumes people follow the How to Vote cards, rather than make up their own minds.

I'm voting Green because I think this country has moved waaaay to far to the right.

I want to be able to say to my kids that I voted because I wanted them to inherit a country that has a good economy and a good environment; one with fair labour laws; one that encourages investment in clean, green energy sources rather than oil, coal or nuclear ; one that's proud of it's history and yet can still say "sorry"; one that does all it can to look after the sick, the disabled, the poor and refugees; one that would help all Australian kids have a good education; one that doesn't pre-emptively invade other countries on dodgy information. I want a country that looks serves all our interests, not just business interests.

BTW we have a small business and employ people, and I think we will be better off if we have a country that is run by people who believe in old fashioned values like a fair go for all and conserving things for future generations, rather than greed, envy, xenophobia and self-interest.

[Phyllis Stein]

Reasons-
9.I hate that KRudd wants to maximise full-fee paying positions into Uni, hmm making rich richer huh!(oops or has he changed his mind on that issue after the backlash!......who knows!)


Labor has long pledged to abolish full-fee paying places, believing it amounts to 'queue jumping' by the wealthy. Unfortunately, since the Liberal government has vastly reduced uni funding, plus lifted the cap on full-fee places, uni's are completely dependent on full-fee paying students for revenue. That means Labor either has to allow full-fee students, or come up with compensation. I believe they plan on a long-term phase out of full-fee paying places. But it's well & truly the Libs who created the problem - Labor are in the position of having to clean up their mess.

[Baldie's Mum]

But it's well & truly the Libs who created the problem - Labor are in the position of having to clean up their mess.


oh imagine how JH felt when he walked into the mess that labor left 11years ago!!!!! :yes: ;)

[forbetoel]

They will when thousands of small businesses have to shut down and you and your friends will have to start competing for jobs with people who have actually run their own businesses. IMO samll business is making the unemployment rate go down so much......Imagine a country with even 1/2 the amount of small businesses???? How many people do you think would be out of work then???? I can already think of 10 families that i employ.:eek:

Are you saying that with Labor in government all small business' will be closing down? Or are you just adopting the Liberal party policy of scaremongering? Just curious!

[forbetoel]

oh imagine how JH felt when he walked into the mess that labor left 11years ago!!!!! :yes: ;)

Ah no actually, Australia's economy was already on the way up when Johnny took over, and he is infact now riding on the success of the reforms from the Keating government. :yes:

[Baldie's Mum]

scaremongering?


just before i reply...... what is scaremongering:o :o :o :confused: :o :o

[forbetoel]

just before i reply...... what is scaremongering:o :o :o :confused: :o :o

It is like over exagerating the outcomes of certain events ie; A labor government means higher interest rates, a union led country etc,etc, no substance or evidence, but said to scare people into voting or thinking their way.

[Baldie's Mum]

oh thanks.......:o
I have searched the labor web page and there was no figures or evidence of what they are planning to do. So basically if they have no policies on small business its obviously not one of their priorities. But yes i am also going from unions past behaviour and considering on the labor front bench 70% of them are union officers or Ex-unionists....that aint very comforting.........:rolleyes:

[~Bec~]

I will vote either ALP or Greens. Not because I want them in, but because I want the Libs out. I'm so tired of listening to Howard, Costello, Abbott et al insult my intelligence. :shame: At least if they're out I can get cross at a different face on the telly.

[Angelmist♥]

Labor has long pledged to abolish full-fee paying places, believing it amounts to 'queue jumping' by the wealthy. Unfortunately, since the Liberal government has vastly reduced uni funding, plus lifted the cap on full-fee places, uni's are completely dependent on full-fee paying students for revenue. That means Labor either has to allow full-fee students, or come up with compensation. I believe they plan on a long-term phase out of full-fee paying places. But it's well & truly the Libs who created the problem - Labor are in the position of having to clean up their mess.

Sorry mahna mahna, this just doesn't make sense:confused:.Why would they want to make full-fee paying places a lot higher if they want to phase them out? They are now in the position of walking into government with a massive surplus, why up the full-fee places?

Did you know there has been a 23%increase of students from low socio-economic backgrounds and a 118% increase in post grad students attending university since liberal took over?Oh and a dedicated 12.9 billion dollars over the 10yrs from 2003-2013.Hmm darn those liberals!

[Phyllis Stein]

Sorry mahna mahna, this just doesn't make sense:confused:.Why would they want to make full-fee paying places a lot higher if they want to phase them out? They are now in the position of walking into government with a massive surplus, why up the full-fee places?

I truly didn't think they were upping the quota? Maintaining it maybe - but not increasing it? I'm genuinely interested to know though. And yes, I'd be concerned if they were!



Did you know there has been a 23%increase of students from low socio-economic backgrounds and a 118% increase in post grad students attending university since liberal took over?Hmm darn those liberals!

I'd like to see the source of those stats - I'm not doubting you btw, just like to know where the stats come from, and what, if any, spin has been put on them.

[~Emmylou~]

Sorry mahna mahna, this just doesn't make sense:confused:.Why would they want to make full-fee paying places a lot higher if they want to phase them out? They are now in the position of walking into government with a massive surplus, why up the full-fee places?



I work in the Admissions unit of a large university and I've heard nothing of the sort :confused:

I'd also be very interested to know the source of these statistics and whether they relate to undergraduate or postgraduate places. I suspect, that if what you are saying is accurate it relates to postgrad places - which are mostly fee paying already.

The doubling in postgraduate students you quoted is irrelevant, again because postgrad places are mostly full fee - not CSP. The government can't take any credit for that increase as they are not subsidising those places. In fact that backs up what mahna mahna said about university dependence on fee places ;) ALL universities are heavily dependent on domestic and international full fee paying students now, where they weren't 10 years ago.

As far as the 23% increase in disadvantaged students attending universities goes - this could well be correct but again the government can't take credit. Demand for places across the board is very low and has been dropping for the last few years as evidenced by the drop in entry cut offs across most courses. The demand isn't there at the moment - and I can tell you that universities are taking anyone that will put their "bum on a seat. Again, not something the coalition can really take credit for.

[forbetoel]

labor front bench 70% of them are union officers or Ex-unionists....that aint very comforting.........:rolleyes:

Yes I have seen the liberal scaremongering has worked on you after all:rolleyes: I can tell you right now, I have a lot more faith in ex union officials being more in touch with the average Australian than a front bench full of ex lawyers:yes:
I recieved 2 flyers in the mail today, 1 from each major party, the Libs one was totally devoted to a negative swipe at the labor party, while the labor party's flyer was focused purely on what they have planned for the future. Most people are sick to death of liberal scaremongering, but with not much to gloat about, they are left to resort to it.

[~Emmylou~]

...oops! double post

[Baldie's Mum]

I can tell you right now, I have a lot more faith in ex union officials being more in touch with the average Australian than a front bench full of ex lawyers:yes:

I do not aspire to be an "average Australian" Never ever would i do that to my own future....I want to be better, i want to make my future as secure and benifitial for my children and their children....ect... My dad is a laywer and he is a decent man, he works hard and provided for his family in a wonderful way. He has done so well in his career he is now able to look after both his mother and my mothers father with the best hospital care that $$ can buy. They both had unexpected ilnesses...

[forbetoel]

I do not aspire to be an "average Australian" Never ever would i do that to my own future....I want to be better, i want to make my future as secure and benifitial for my children and their children....ect... My dad is a laywer and he is a decent man, he works hard and provided for his family in a wonderful way. He has done so well in his career he is now able to look after both his mother and my mothers father with the best hospital care that $$ can buy. They both had unexpected ilnesses...

You speak like a true liberal voter through and through, heaven forbid if you were to slum it with us 'average' folk! :rolleyes: Well my dad is not a lawyer, but I can tell you right now, he is an absolute saint of a man, and someone to whom I aspire to be like. I don't class a successful life by career choice....far from it. I am sure your dad is great, but it not because he is a lawyer, that is only a job. I also hope that your children do not turn out to dissapoint you if they turn out to be only 'average'

[Angelmist♥]

Ok, sorry people:o Looks like I did speak to soon!And..... I'm trying to find the source of those stats:eek: Be back with it soon!


This was Mr Rudd on Sky television yesterday, being interviewed by David Speers.

DAVID SPEER: But what about these full fee places? Will you keep them or get rid of them?

KEVIN RUDD: Well let's have a look at what's in the detail of the Budget papers on that.

DAVID SPEERS: I thought Labor's policy was to get rid of full-fee places.

KEVIN RUDD: Well, I like to have a look at it more carefully. It's part of the Budget papers ...

DAVID SPEER: Aside from the Budget announcement, full-fee places at university? Are they staying or going under Labor?

KEVIN RUDD: Well, we'd like to look at it more closely I've just got to say, because my overall concern is how do you grow the university cake, how do you provide opportunity for kids of working families across the country. I don't have an ideological agenda about universities at all.

DAVID SPEER: So you've just opened the door to keeping full-fee places?

KEVIN RUDD: I'd like to look very carefully at what Mr Howard has said in the Budget on this. And we'll form a definitive view on this once we get to election time.

PETA DONALD: It was hardly a ringing endorsement of Labor's policy to get rid of full-fees for Australians. Mr Rudd seemed to be grappling with how to increase the overall funding to universities, when a Labor government would have to start by making up half a billion dollars, over four years, that the universities would otherwise be getting in fees.

Today it was a different story. The Opposition's Education spokesman Stephen Smith was out first.

STEPHEN SMITH: Kevin says he wanted to have a look at that. He's looked at that and quickly come to the conclusion that we're not going to support that.

PETA DONALD: Mr Rudd's line varied slightly. He reappeared on Sky TV to argue that yesterday he'd been talking about arrangements for phasing out full-fees and allowing students already enrolled in a full-fee paying degree to complete it before their place at university was abolished.

KEVIN RUDD: We will phase out full-fee paying places. We'll make sure that that occurs. But when it comes to those who are currently in the system, let's not be ideological about them and take the axe to them. They should be allowed to finish their studies and their courses.

PETA DONALD: When it came to Question Time this afternoon, the Prime Minister delighted in Mr Rudd's turn-around.

JOHN HOWARD: So in the space of less than 24 hours he's gone from deliberately leaving the door open, either because he wanted to change the policy and ultimately got rolled, or because he didn't know what the policy was when he was first asked ... I mean it's a tossup.

PETA DONALD: Mr Howard was on a roll - labelling Labor's policy as anti-Australian because it would allow overseas students to pay full-fees, but not Australian students.

JOHN HOWARD: I mean the worst thing about this policy is that it discriminates against Australians. It's all right to charge foreigners, give foreigners a chance to come into our universities and buy a place, but it's wrong to let Australians do that, Mr Speaker. So let me simply say to the Leader of the Opposition, if that's the way the Opposition makes policy, Mr Speaker, in relation to a crucial area like this, heaven help the country if they ever get a crack at government.

PARLIAMENT: Hear, hear!!

MARK COLVIN: The Prime Minister ending Peta Donald's report.

[Baldie's Mum]

No my dad isnt great because he is a lawyer, he is great because he gave me and my famiy a great lot of options in life......And my mother is wonderful as well always pushed me to do what she knew i could. She is a school teacher, well a retired one anyway.....And i became what i wanted, a child care assistant...therefore on $13 per hour...But because i was bought up in my family like i was i have managed to buy investment properties and i took the leap to start up a business and it has become profitable.

[forbetoel]

No my dad isnt great because he is a lawyer, he is great because he gave me and my famiy a great lot of options in life......And my mother is wonderful as well always pushed me to do what she knew i could. She is a school teacher, well a retired one anyway.....And i became what i wanted, a child care assistant...therefore on $13 per hour...But because i was bought up in my family like i was i have managed to buy investment properties and i took the leap to start up a business and it has become profitable.

Yeah but owning things, and having money doesn't make you above average, and to think that it is, is a rather snobish sort of attitude. What I have and earn, and own has little to do with the success in my life....very little indeed!

[Baldie's Mum]

I have always wondered what was so appealing about being an average aussie??? A serious question. :o :D

[Baldie's Mum]

yeah i know i know but what is average then to you.....cause it is probably different to my opinion of average!!!:rolleyes:

[forbetoel]

I am just saying that money for me is a pretty shallow way of summing up being above average. It is as if to say money somehow makes you better than someone else :confused: Money is just paper to me. But class....anybody can have that, class cannot be purchased.

[forbetoel]

I have always wondered what was so appealing about being an average aussie??? A serious question. :o :D

We have probally just been raised differently. I aspire to be a good, caring, honest person, a loving mother, wife and friend, and I knew I would do this with or without money. I happy regardless. :)

[Ana Gram]

I want to know what an "average" Australian is?

[Baldie's Mum]

I aspire to also be all of those things. I am also making sure i can finacially take care of things. It is a very importnant thing to have especially in this world. Money cant buy happiness but it sure does help! :)
oh and when anyone i know needs help i am always there.....without a thought!!!! :thumbsup:

[kccmylife]

The Greens give their preferences to the Labor party.

Thankyou that is exactly what I was asking!! I am voting labour anyway but I was just wondering what was going to happen to all the Greens votes!

[SalTheGal]

I do not aspire to be an "average Australian" Never ever would i do that to my own future....I want to be better, i want to make my future as secure and benifitial for my children and their children....ect... My dad is a laywer and he is a decent man, he works hard and provided for his family in a wonderful way. He has done so well in his career he is now able to look after both his mother and my mothers father with the best hospital care that $$ can buy. They both had unexpected ilnesses...


You speak like a true liberal voter through and through, heaven forbid if you were to slum it with us 'average' folk! :rolleyes: Well my dad is not a lawyer, but I can tell you right now, he is an absolute saint of a man, and someone to whom I aspire to be like. I don't class a successful life by career choice....far from it. I am sure your dad is great, but it not because he is a lawyer, that is only a job. I also hope that your children do not turn out to dissapoint you if they turn out to be only 'average'


I have always wondered what was so appealing about being an average aussie??? A serious question. :o :D


I am just saying that money for me is a pretty shallow way of summing up being above average. It is as if to say money somehow makes you better than someone else :confused: Money is just paper to me. But class....anybody can have that, class cannot be purchased.

I guess I am unfortunetely :p a ture lib voter like Ains....I echo her sentiments wholeheartedly.

I do not want to be "average" and I think every australian should embrace the fact that we live in an amazing country where no one has to be "average" anyone can reach for the stars.

And I also think that wether you like it or not, the nature of society today means that yes money does equal success, the cost of living is more and more expensive and most people want the best of everything...but you know what, if you are willing to work hard then why shouldn't you have it? Is it really snobby to want to be successful?

[Baldie's Mum]

And I also think that wether you like it or not, the nature of society today means that yes money does equal success, the cost of living is more and more expensive and most people want the best of everything...but you know what, if you are willing to work hard then why shouldn't you have it? Is it really snobby to want to be successful?


:yelclap: :yes: totaly agree. i do not think for 1 second that it is snobby to want.....it is snobby when you think you are better than everyone else.....as i see it, we are all human and we are all here for the same purpose, to live!!!!

[LovelyRita]

Maybe some people are just content with what they have. I don't particularly want to be wealthy. I wouldn't choose a career based on how much money I can earn or how much prestige comes along with it. I want to inspire people and make a change in this country and this world. I want to make people think and to think of others. For me, that is success.

I don't think being successful is snobbery, as I don't think success has anything to do with money. For me, it has to do with what you do with your life, not how much money you make.

*gets down off soapbox* :o

[Baldie's Mum]

suc·cess http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2 Fsuccess) /səkˈsɛs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[suhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngk-ses] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1.the favorable or prosperous termination of attempts or endeavors. 2.the attainment of wealth, position, honors, or the like. 3.a successful performance or achievement: The play was an instant success. 4.a person or thing that is successful: She was a great success on the talk show.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/success

[Baldie's Mum]

I have great plans for my money.....when i make it!
charity every year we give 30% of our profit to local and overseas charities....

i am not saying this is the right way but i do think it is a nice thing for me to do....It gives back to a society that gave alot to me.....:yes:

[mummy2sophie]

hmmmm some interesting discussion.

I'm voting Greens. I think Bob Brown is absolutely fantastic. He has pushed for internal inquiries into things like the AWB scandal and really tried to make the Libs publicly accountable (they really worm their way out of taking responsibility). He has his own ideas of what is right and good for this country and does not receive huge amounts of money for his campaigns like the two big parties do. IMO people donate to these parties in order to influence and I think this is really wrong, especially since their donations are largely hidden from the public (and the Libs want to hide this further). The greens want to make this all transparent. They are all about making things available to the public.

After that my vote goes to Labor. I actually like Rudd, he has a clear vision for the future. And I do believe that Australia is "Broke" and does need fixing. I think the budget surplus needs to be spent on infrastructure such as education and health and the environment rather than given back to the tax payer. And this is what Rudd plans to do.

I don't trust Howard. He lied about Iraq, AWB, children overboard and in many other instances. And what about funding that he promised to certain causes (such as climate change technology) that is (since promising them last election) still yet to materialise?? I am annoyed that over the last 12 years he has done nothing but squander the environment and continues to make us an international embarrassment on this issue. And what's with the core/non-core promise cr@p??

Also he is not responsible for low interest rates (he cannot promise such a thing!!) or how well the economy is doing. This is due to a resources boom and a good worldwide economy. And it doesn't matter who gets in, this good fortune is not going to last....I say, spend the money while it's good and then the infrastructure can be sustained through the bad times.

Sorry about the rant....there's just so much to say!! :o

[~Emmylou~]

Maybe some people are just content with what they have. I don't particularly want to be wealthy. I wouldn't choose a career based on how much money I can earn or how much prestige comes along with it. I want to inspire people and make a change in this country and this world. I want to make people think and to think of others. For me, that is success.

I don't think being successful is snobbery, as I don't think success has anything to do with money. For me, it has to do with what you do with your life, not how much money you make.

*gets down off soapbox* :o

:yes:
I have to say I think it's really sad that anyone would define their value, or that of others by their bank balance.

Pretty much sums up alot of what I think is wrong with this country at the moment...sorry girls.

[Baldie's Mum]

I say, spend the money while it's good and then the infrastructure can be sustained through the bad times.



:eek:
do you live by "live every day like its your last"?????

[SalTheGal]

:yes:
I have to say I think it's really sad that anyone would define their value, or that of others by their bank balance.

Pretty much sums up alot of what I think is wrong with this country at the moment...sorry girls.

I would never define anyone by their bank balance- except that is for myself! :rolleyes:

I have many many friends from all walks of life and socio-economic standards, and do not stop once to consider someone based on their wealth.

However this discussion is based around the definition of an "average" aussie- which I am not sure what that actually is?!?! But I know I never ever aspire to be "average" and I would not want that for my children either.

I am not so shallow to think that money equates success- but as I stated earlier in the current society wether we like it or not its pretty much the way it stands. The more money I can earn the better off I can be. Doesn't change the person I am- just makes me more comfortable! :D

[Baldie's Mum]

sal.........are we twins?!:eek: :laughing: :eek: :laughing: :eek: :laughing:

[mummy2sophie]

No I don't live by that saying at all. I have savings for bad times....if I lived every day like it was my last I'd be spending spending spending and not saving at all (most of it would be on icecream and hairdressers - after all, got to look good on your last day on earth!).

This is just my point. There's schools out there literally crumbling with toilets that don't work and old furniture and computers. I say, while the money is good, to replace these things. That way, if we have a recession (which I think will be inevitable at some point) the schools can function well and not suddenly have everything broken.

Have you been to a public high school recently?

[Baldie's Mum]

(most of it would be on icecream and hairdressers - after all, got to look good on your last day on earth!).

Have you been to a public high school recently?

oh god, that made me laugh!!!!!:laughing: :yelclap:

And yes, well not too recently but yes i have been into a public school.....and i realise that some are horrible and in no working condition, but schools are mostly run by the states (correct me if i am wrong) same with the hospitals and roads........which are all horror stories!

[Phyllis Stein]

I do not want to be "average" and I think every australian should embrace the fact that we live in an amazing country where no one has to be "average" anyone can reach for the stars.

Yes, but what are "the stars" exactly? For some, it's fame (no thanks!!), for others it's wealth (ho-hum)... for me, it's to have successful relationships, live sustainably, be productive, give something back, enjoy the moment. The Liberals don't really help much when those are your priorities. However, I do think that a good education, access to quality health care, and a healthy environment are essential to choice over your life's direction, and the left generally help with that.



And I also think that wether you like it or not, the nature of society today means that yes money does equal success, the cost of living is more and more expensive and most people want the best of everything...but you know what, if you are willing to work hard then why shouldn't you have it? Is it really snobby to want to be successful?

I have to dispute that - based on the above points I made, money is not the basis of my success. I don't buy into consumerism a whole lot TBH. But if an education or decent healthcare starts costing too much, then yes, I'd have to agree with you!
And no, it's not snobby to want to be successful, but it is snobby (IMO) not to recognise other forms of success besides wealth.

[mummy2sophie]

yes but as pointed out by the Sydney Morning Herald recently (some academics researched the spending at state and federal levels) the federal government has actually cut their education spending slowly over the years. The states rely on money set aside for this purpose. Same as health.

And it's still liberal policy to spend more on private schools (per student) than public schools (per student). Which is a travesty.

[Baldie's Mum]

for me, it's to have successful relationships, live sustainably, be productive, give something back, enjoy the moment. The Liberals don't really help much when those are your priorities. However, I do think that a good education, access to quality health care, and a healthy environment are essential to choice over your life's direction, and the left generally help with that.


with wealth all of these things would be easily accesable... (well maybe the acception of the environment unless you can turn into mother nature!!!:p )

[mummy2sophie]

"if you're willing to work hard then why shouldn't you have it (the best of everything)?"

The problem with statements like this is that it assumes that everyone who works hard can be financially successful. When really that is not possible for a lot of people. If you're of average or less than average intelligence then immediately your options of having a job that has decent money are limited. Not to mention if you are a carer of someone elderly or disabled, or if you're mentally ill etc etc

I'm not saying we shouldn't reward people who work hard and who are an asset to the economy. But the point of an election is to consider those who are less fortunate than ourselves. And whilst we may not be able to give them the best, at least give them a fighting chance to have decent life too.

Still considering what I'd do on my last day on earth....a pedicure would be good....:laughing:

[forbetoel]

The more money I can earn the better off I can be. Doesn't change the person I am- just makes me more comfortable! :D

Ummm, well, I have earned not one red cent in the last 8 years, but of course I am a sahm, and I strongly disagree with the more money you earn, the better off you are, and if that really is true...well...I won't even go there! I am happy, honestly very happy, and money doesn't come into it. DH earns a reasonable ammount of money, we get by, and my happiness comes from my kids and guess what....shock horror, the more kids I have, the happier I am :eek: Fancy that, in today's society being happy with family life, and not money!!I don't fit very well into modern day society do I? :)

[forbetoel]

with wealth all of these things would be easily accesable... (well maybe the acception of the environment unless you can turn into mother nature!!!:p )

Really??? How so??? It is the governments job to provide good quality healthcare and education for all people. Do you know even the poor deserve a good quality education?

[Baldie's Mum]

"if you're willing to work hard then why shouldn't you have it (the best of everything)?"

The problem with statements like this is that it assumes that everyone who works hard can be financially successful. When really that is not possible for a lot of people. If you're of average or less than average intelligence then immediately your options of having a job that has decent money are limited. Not to mention if you are a carer of someone elderly or disabled, or if you're mentally ill etc etc



just refering to the part i underlined....how wrong you are! My brother in law is of "less intelligence" and when the public school system let him down and kicked him out of school at 14 years old he got a job on a farm saved money and when his parent moved to wagga wagga 4 years later he had a car, and he was able to get a small loan from the bank and he bought some lawn mowing equiptment....he built the business and he sold it 4 years later for $250000. so NEVER underestimate people of "less intelligence"!!!!!!:shame: :mad: he also has bought investment houses with his money...:yes:

and he never had any financial help from mummy or daddy, just love and support

[Noah_and_Elijah]

I just wanted to comment on the above post ^^

Your brother sounds like he did really well for himself and to be able to successfully build up a company from scratch and sell it for that amount of money, he obviously is an intelligent bloke!

[Baldie's Mum]

oh school wise his parent were told that he may have to repeat and get extra help.....basically dumb, still cant properly read or write and spelling is just a no go zone!

[mummy2sophie]

Don't need to add much to above point. Very valid! :thumbsup:

Intelligence is a difficult term...Often when I use it I refer to all the different types of intelligence. Some other types of intelligence can make up for a lack of academic intelligence. You can be very bright academically and yet be a complete spendthrift. Or not particularly bright at school but thrive in other environments. It sounds like your BIL is a very adaptable entreprener. But he sounds like he's the exception, generally, if you don't at least finish school your options of earning more than average amounts of money are LIMITED regardless of how hard you work.

I'm really sorry the public school system let down your BIL. :shame: We definitely need to invest in the public school system to make sure this doesn't happen and that others are encouraged to finish school.

[forbetoel]

Is it really snobby to want to be successful?

No not snobby to want to be successful, but it is snobby to assume that money is the only way of getting it...that IMO is very snobby:yes:

[SalTheGal]

OK this thread has gone way off topic.

But for the record I have stated several times the way I measure my own success....and this is all in reference to what the labour party describe as "the average aussie" which I wonder what that is?!?

I have also stated several times that I would NEVER judge another person based on their wealth. Being successful is a very personal thing, and however a person measures their success is entirely up to them.

I have also stated the I believe in this day and age money is important- it is the society we live in.

If you (each and every person reading this thread or in the wider world) measure YOUR success any other way then good for you, I have total respect for others in every situation no matter what life choices you make, as long as YOU are happy. I am happy with my choices and the way I measure MY success.

I hope this clears up any misunderstandings, it is last I will comment on the issue as it has completely moved away from the initial point of this thread!

:)

[Angelmist♥]

yes but as pointed out by the Sydney Morning Herald recently (some academics researched the spending at state and federal levels) the federal government has actually cut their education spending slowly over the years. The states rely on money set aside for this purpose. Same as health.

And it's still liberal policy to spend more on private schools (per student) than public schools (per student). Which is a travesty.

Yes they have cut the funding because the state governments (umm that would be labor) receive the GST money.
Taken from here And this is a 2001 report! (http://www.treasurer.gov.au/tsr/content/pressreleases/2001/045.asp)

The Queensland Government's new spending announced today is funded from the New Tax System introduced by the Commonwealth Government. So far, the Queensland Government has received $4,658,223,345 in GST revenue from the Commonwealth. Next financial year, GST payments for the Queensland Government are expected to total $5,198,300,000.


Whilst the Howard Government has repaid Labor’s $96 billion debt through responsible and disciplined economic management, Labor State and Territory debt is forecast to increase to $80 billion over the next five years.


Really??? How so??? It is the governments job to provide good quality healthcare and education for all people. Do you know even the poor deserve a good quality education?
And the poor can get good quality education!I am now studying at the university of my choice with no out of pocket expenses (apart from text books and stationery).I didn't even finish Grade 12!


As for success, money does help cos now I can afford my sponsor child:D

[SalTheGal]

Hey angelmist...thanks for getting this thread back on track!:)

[Angelmist♥]

:D I thought you were being sarcastic then:laughing:It's not like me to get back on track!!!

[SalTheGal]

:D I thought you were being sarcastic then:laughing:It's not like me to get back on track!!!

:D Nope not sarcastic at all, just very grateful!! It had gone WAAAAYYYY off track! :o

[pegasus]

Firstly can I just say - can anyone voting Labor please spell it correctly as Labor not Labour :p (I hate that - reminds me of other threads on this forum where we talk about child birth).


Do we need to revisit my very popular thread from a while back?
http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=7781&highlight=step+back+time
That's why.

Do you want me to quote my thread about whether anyone has had a job/mortgage etc under Labor???


Labor has long pledged to abolish full-fee paying places, believing it amounts to 'queue jumping' by the wealthy. Unfortunately, since the Liberal government has vastly reduced uni funding, plus lifted the cap on full-fee places, uni's are completely dependent on full-fee paying students for revenue. That means Labor either has to allow full-fee students, or come up with compensation. I believe they plan on a long-term phase out of full-fee paying places. But it's well & truly the Libs who created the problem - Labor are in the position of having to clean up their mess.


This is an interesting thing as since I've been an employee of a university, I've found out that full fee paying students give a flat rate that doesn't always match the cost for the course and that sometimes the unis get more money for non-full feepaying students.

I always wonder about the people who say about fullpaying students taking places away from "average Australians" as any full fee paying students in the course I teach are from overseas and their positions are superfluous to others.

BTW - I attended a public school, and also wanted to say that the education that I received was due more to the teachers that I had rather than the money given to the school. I went on to gain a tertiary degree, while my husband left school at year nine.

The average Australian doesn't exist, however, it seems there is a mentality of the us - vs- them, which doesn't sit well with me.

The stuff I read continues to amaze me that if you work hard and reap monetary gains for it, then you are seen as one of them. You are not allowed to earn a certain amount in some circles. Also a recurring theme in some threads is that if you vote Liberal then you have no concern for the environment or indigenous issues - I'd like to let you know that from my experience, this is not true. It's a myth - the Liberals are just as concerned with the "working class people of Australia" (insert definition here) as the Labor purport to be, however, it seems to suit some people that there is elitism running in the ranks.

My husband's ex currently receives $570 per fortnight in maintenance - she is on full welfare and receives rent assistance, full healthcare benefits etc and hasn't paid a dollar's tax in her life - in some circles she'd be seen as one of the battlers and we'd be seen as one of "them". At least under Joe Hockey's review, the child support legislation was given some research behind the amount to pay - rather than the ad hoc method behind the amount my hubby currently pays.

There's my reason for voting Liberal - the Liberal's use research behind their policies and legislation rather than ad hoc. Means I'd be interested in seeing some of the Labor party's legislations in practice as although they sound good on paper, I wonder about their longevity in real life.

[mummy2sophie]

Angelmist: they DON'T receive the money...that's just the point. It seems like more because it is more money in real terms. It's like if you were to pay 10% of your income to a charity. Let's say you earned $50 000 a year you'd pay $5000. Now let's say you had a great year (because the economy's good) and you received $100 000 and decided to give $7000. Well that is more in real terms but less of a percentage, and actually less generous.

And that percentage is important. As there is more to spend money on, as the population grows and businesses grow..

Anyway: here's the article.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/NATIONAL/Govt-payments-to-states-at-10-year-low/2007/10/11/1191696025607.html

12% to 4.6% to the states is disgustingly low.

Pegasus: I HATE it how they spell it Labor!! :) Australian spellings are supposed to have a "u" in them, ie "humour" etc. I wonder why they chose to spell it that way....was it to make them seem more American friendly?? :rolleyes:

BTW: terribly sorry to get off topic....that was partly me....:o

[forbetoel]

As for success, money does help cos now I can afford my sponsor child:D

I have sponsor child too, but I can't really say it is because I can afford him, more that I couldn't live with myself not giving back to the world, even in some small way. :)

[Angelmist♥]

One of the 'highest budgets ever' 2004-2005
http://www.budget.qld.gov.au/previous-budgets/2004-05/media-releases/north_coast.rtf

From your own link

The 2006-07 final budget outcome, released last month, showed that payments to the states have fallen from 7.2 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP) or about $53 billion in 2001-02 down to 6.5 per cent of GDP or about $68 billion in 2006-07.

Last time I looked $68 billion was higher than $53 billion by a whopping $15 billion!

[mummy2sophie]

As I was saying, it looks like it is more because it is more money but as a PERCENTAGE it is far less. The percentage needs to stay at least the same from year to year, but should actually increase to take in inflation etc.

Let me put it this way, could you buy more with $1 in 1997 or $1 in 2007? I'd rather have the dollar in 1997, why you could have bought a white chocolate magnum with that! These days a single dollar buys a lot less. It's the same with government spending. The same amount of money buys you LESS stuff compared to what it could buy you 5 years ago. Besides the fed govt. has received more money than ever due to the booming economy...shouldn't they share that around?

[Angelmist♥]

We're not talking a measly dollar though are we?We're talking $15 billion dollars!That's not chump change!And we're not talking 10 yrs, it's $15 billion increase in 5 years.

[mummy2sophie]

:) It always looks larger when presented in the bigger picture in that way. The amount SHOULD go up every year, because the amount you can buy with it goes down.

I still maintain that it should be based on percentages, especially considering how much more the fed govt has received. Just think of the housing boom that has happened between now and 5 years ago. Remember the fed govt gets a huge slice of that every time someone buys and sells a house. Or think of the massive taxes the fed govt has received because of this resources boom. We're talking trillions here. $15 billion really is chump change when you look at how much that is compared to what the govt has received.

I maintain that I'd prefer a dollar in 2002 than in 2007. Remember now that the Australian dollar is valued higher than it has been in many many many years. It's nearly on par with the american dollar!! :eek:

[Tulp]

As a non-Australian, I am just surprised at the current situation with housing, healthcare, the education system, high taxes, environment, drugs and crime rates in Australia. In my opinion - it's broke.

Before moving here I saw Australia as a fantastic country to live in now I am not so sure and that is sad because it's a beautiful country.

IMO , the government is spending money on war and not enough on looking after it's people.

Nurses going on strikes, how people are finding it hard to own their own homes, water shortage (there should have been a well laid out plan before this could happen), and the list goes on - what is not right about this picture?

I just had to put in my 2 cents worth.

[Phyllis Stein]

Firstly can I just say - can anyone voting Labor please spell it correctly as Labor not Labour :p (I hate that - reminds me of other threads on this forum where we talk about child birth).

Hate it too!



Do you want me to quote my thread about whether anyone has had a job/mortgage etc under Labor???

No, not really, because IMO it's too simplistic to say that one Labor government in one period is equivalent to another in a whole different time.



I always wonder about the people who say about fullpaying students taking places away from "average Australians" as any full fee paying students in the course I teach are from overseas and their positions are superfluous to others.

To create a system where you can get into a popular course, despite having a much lower entry score, simply by being wealthy enough to afford full-fee, by definition takes places away from non-full fee paying students. I have been in tutorials where there's 30+ students to 1 tutor - obviously resources are limited.



BTW - I attended a public school, and also wanted to say that the education that I received was due more to the teachers that I had rather than the money given to the school. I went on to gain a tertiary degree, while my husband left school at year nine.

Some public schools are simply better than others - one of the most in-demand high schools in Brissie is public. Depends where you live really. And I agree that good teachers are the ultimate for a good education - however the facilities and opportunities I received through my private school education are far beyond what many public schools can offer.



The average Australian doesn't exist, however, it seems there is a mentality of the us - vs- them, which doesn't sit well with me.


I agree - no such thing as the average Australian!



The stuff I read continues to amaze me that if you work hard and reap monetary gains for it, then you are seen as one of them. You are not allowed to earn a certain amount in some circles. Also a recurring theme in some threads is that if you vote Liberal then you have no concern for the environment or indigenous issues - I'd like to let you know that from my experience, this is not true. It's a myth - the Liberals are just as concerned with the "working class people of Australia" (insert definition here) as the Labor purport to be, however, it seems to suit some people that there is elitism running in the ranks.

Hmm, so chardonnay swilling, latte sipping, pinko commie bleeding hearts isn't as much of a furphy? Come on, we have to let the persecution complex go - few people are silly enough to really believe that Lib voters are heartless, uncompassionate monsters. I do tend to believe in general though, that the priority a person places on social justice issues can affect their voting choice.

[forbetoel]

Some public schools are simply better than others - one of the most in-demand high schools in Brissie is public. Depends where you live really. And I agree that good teachers are the ultimate for a good education - however the facilities and opportunities I received through my private school education are far beyond what many public schools can offer.


.

I am hoping to give my children a Catholic secondary school education, and we should be able to afford this...lucky us!.....I have friends though that will have no choice but to send their kids to the local highschool, which is, for want of a better word, disgusting! I would hate if this school was my only option, and having such a bad public school in our area only further devides the "haves" and "have nots" People in my area are doing anything to not send their children there, as it has such a bad name. I am all for the public system, there are some great schools out there, but there are some shocking ones too, and regardless of the money you earn, everyone should have access to a high quality public secondary school. Don't give us tax cuts, give us great schools, with great teachers.

[Roopee]

I am hoping to give my children a Catholic secondary school education, and we should be able to afford this...lucky us!.....I have friends though that will have no choice but to send their kids to the local highschool, which is, for want of a better word, disgusting! I would hate if this school was my only option, and having such a bad public school in our area only further devides the "haves" and "have nots" People in my area are doing anything to not send their children there, as it has such a bad name. I am all for the public system, there are some great schools out there, but there are some shocking ones too, and regardless of the money you earn, everyone should have access to a high quality public secondary school. Don't give us tax cuts, give us great schools, with great teachers.

Could they not apply to another school? You can attend a different school- you just ae enrolled as an "out of zone' student?
That way- they can get a great PUBLIC (if thats what they are after) without the fees of a Private?

[forbetoel]

Could they not apply to another school? You can attend a different school- you just ae enrolled as an "out of zone' student?
That way- they can get a great PUBLIC (if thats what they are after) without the fees of a Private?

They would have to travel 35 minutes to the nearest decent public school. I guess my point is that everyone is entitled to easy access to a good school. People pay taxes and should in return get a good solid education for their kids. I am not blaming this solely on the liberal party, I just think that the tax cuts they gave us were for a quick grab for votes, when it could have been better spent in education. If Labor are going to go for the massive tax cuts just to buy votes, I will also be dissapointed in them. I don't want my tax money back, $20 doesn't do much for me, but put all back into the 34 billion dollars that it came from can do a lot for education. :)

[Roopee]

They would have to travel 35 minutes to the nearest decent public school. I guess my point is that everyone is entitled to easy access to a good school. People pay taxes and should in return get a good solid education for their kids. I am not blaming this solely on the liberal party, I just think that the tax cuts they gave us were for a quick grab for votes, when it could have been better spent in education. If Labor are going to go for the massive tax cuts just to buy votes, I will also be dissapointed in them. I don't want my tax money back, $20 doesn't do much for me, but put all back into the 34 billion dollars that it came from can do a lot for education. :)

I was just really wondering if that was an option is all.
When i was in High School (aaaallllllll those years ago) i had to catch a bus 40 minutes away- it was either that or go to a school that was renowned for its violence. The school i went to was the lesser of two evils.
The education crisis has been around for eons i think.:)

[forbetoel]

The education crisis has been around for eons i think.:)

:wave: Yep it probally has, and regardless of whatever party gets in, they better stat fixing things.

[Roopee]

:wave: Yep it probally has, and regardless of whatever party gets in, they better stat fixing things.

Yanno? Wouldn't it be great if the parents had a REAl say? If the parents and general community were able to "run' the school and/ or have a say that was actually heard and listened too to a certain extent. If the parents and kids were able to implement the rules and regulations and worked with the teachers and such to ensure they were adhered too.

I know ther are PandC committee and what not but, really, i dont think they are able to implement alot.

Does that make any sense? So it wasn't so much a Govt issue, more a communtiy issue? The Govt would be like your boss? A silent one? LOL.

[forbetoel]

Yeah I get what you are saying, but to still make it an affordable option, the government would still have to cough up some cash. Some children are living in abusive, unloving homes, and their only way out of the bad cycle is a good education, itis such a pity these kids are lost in a system that has so many bad schools. At least if my kids went to our local public school, they would still have a stable and loving enviroment at home.....some kis don't even have that, and their only refuge is school. :(

[Roopee]

Yeah I get what you are saying, but to still make it an affordable option, the government would still have to cough up some cash. Some shildren are living in abusive, unloving homes, and their only way out of the bad cycle is a good education, itis such a pitty these kids are lostin a system that has so many bad schools. At last if my kids went to our local public shcool, they would stll have a stableand loving enviroment athome.....some kis dn't even have that, and there only refuge is school. :(

Oh yeah i know! It was an 'in a perfect world' sense. Such a shame we dont live in one.:crying:

[forbetoel]

Oh yeah i know! It was an 'in a perfect world' sense. Such a shame we dont live in one.:crying:

*drum roll* We agree! Yay, Yay Yay! :laughing: Have a good day Roopee, might get some lunch now.

[xkwzit]

This thread is starting to get off track again. I think we had best keep to the OP, which was: what party and why? Discussion of each particular issue, such as education, health, child care all deserve separate threads of their own.

Cheers

[mummy2sophie]

Well I gotta say I'm a bit disappointed with Labor's tax plan. Here it is (briefly):

http://www.smh.com.au/news/economy/rudd-outlines-tax-vision/2007/10/19/1192301012405.html

For god's sake SPEND THE MONEY!!! I don't want your tax breaks.

I do like the extra money for kids in school though, those educational expenses can add up.

[Josh]

What about what John Howard's Liberal Govt has done to the innocent people of Iraq, people getting bombed day and night for no reason :gloomy:,Australia shouldn't be there, we dont have a place there... no one should have to put up with that, how would Johnny like it if strange people turn up on his door step and bomb it:thumbsdown:

[xkwzit]

The Iraqi ppl are being bombed by Iraqis. I don't nec agree with the whole troops in Iraq situation, but I do believe that without them, the bombings would worsen. It is a sticky, dirty situation now.

[canberramomma]

Gonna vote Greens:smiliedance:

They care about EVERYBODY!!!!

I like social justice!!

[forbetoel]

Gonna vote Greens:smiliedance:

They care about EVERYBODY!!!!

I like social justice!!

:thumbsup: :) I LOVE social justice, I guess it is just a pity more don't.

[Pippi Longstocking]

Oooh looky here. A politics thread. *looks gleeful*


I'll be voting Labor. A strong and healthy economy means nothing if it comes at the cost of society in general. If we have people dying on hospital waiting lists, if our children are graduating from high school and yet are unable to spell the most basic of words, if old people are crammed together in squalid conditions in over-crowded under-staffed nursing homes, if our children have no chance of being able to afford to move out etc etc etc then what good is a budget surplus?

JHo's handling of indigenous issues has been disgraceful. Absolutely shameful. His resurrection of the White Australia policy in relation to the Sudanese is reprehensible. Bigots have no place in Parliament House.
His callous disregard of social justice issues and his constant lies and undelivered promises has proven time and again that he is not worthy of my vote.

[our little treasures]

Oooh looky here. A politics thread. *looks gleeful*


I'll be voting Labor. A strong and healthy economy means nothing if it comes at the cost of society in general. If we have people dying on hospital waiting lists, if our children are graduating from high school and yet are unable to spell the most basic of words, if old people are crammed together in squalid conditions in over-crowded under-staffed nursing homes, if our children have no chance of being able to afford to move out etc etc etc then what good is a budget surplus?

JHo's handling of indigenous issues has been disgraceful. Absolutely shameful. His resurrection of the White Australia policy in relation to the Sudanese is reprehensible. Bigots have no place in Parliament House.
His callous disregard of social justice issues and his constant lies and undelivered promises has proven time and again that he is not worthy of my vote.
:yelclap: :yelclap:
Took you a while to find it:p

[forbetoel]

Oooh looky here. A politics thread. *looks gleeful*


I'll be voting Labor. A strong and healthy economy means nothing if it comes at the cost of society in general. If we have people dying on hospital waiting lists, if our children are graduating from high school and yet are unable to spell the most basic of words, if old people are crammed together in squalid conditions in over-crowded under-staffed nursing homes, if our children have no chance of being able to afford to move out etc etc etc then what good is a budget surplus?

JHo's handling of indigenous issues has been disgraceful. Absolutely shameful. His resurrection of the White Australia policy in relation to the Sudanese is reprehensible. Bigots have no place in Parliament House.
His callous disregard of social justice issues and his constant lies and undelivered promises has proven time and again that he is not worthy of my vote.

:D Welcome back! :thumbsup:

[amumslove]

GO KEVVY:thumbsup: . John Howard is not even going to stay PM he is only standing cause they know Costello :barf: wouldn't get in. I think the 34billion could be better spent on health and education. Yeah tax cuts would be good but who benifits most out of it? The rich! The money people save on tax would be spent on the economy and interest rates would be likely to rise.

I feel Kevin is more for the little people(workers) and it is time for a change!:wave:

[Ashleigh<3]

When the labor party were in ruling, interest rates raised to a whopping 17%. True, that was 11 years ago but I still worry.
I just hope Kevin Rudd doesn't follow Paul Keating's footsteps.

[vanillabean]

Labor all the way in this household:thumbsup:

[LovelyRita]

When the labor party were in ruling, interest rates raised to a whopping 17%. True, that was 11 years ago but I still worry.
I just hope Kevin Rudd doesn't follow Paul Keating's footsteps.
Interest rates were huge, inflation was up and there was a massive budget deficit when John Howard was Treasurer back in the early 80's. I don't think we can look at this as a reflection of how a new Labor government would handle the economy. I have no concerns what so ever about the economy if Labor gets in, they are so conservative now anyway, I don't think much will change in that regard.

[Roxy]

When the labor party were in ruling, interest rates raised to a whopping 17%. True, that was 11 years ago but I still worry.
I just hope Kevin Rudd doesn't follow Paul Keating's footsteps.

It wasn't only Australia's economy that was suffering at that time though - the whole world's economy was struggling if I remember rightly (I am old enough to remember it, but young enough not to remember all the details).

Yes - Australia's economy has boomed in the past decade, but so has the world economy. Is that co-incidence? Who knows.

Definately Green in the Senate here for me, and deciding between Green and Labor for the HoR.

[amumslove]

Something I don't understand is how the Liberals who are for the buisness peope and the Nationals who are for the farmers can stand together when they have different policies? Also you never see John Howard and the deputy PM? together. If they didn't stand together they couldn't win. Doesn't this tell them something, there are more labour voters.

[forbetoel]

When the labor party were in ruling, interest rates raised to a whopping 17%. True, that was 11 years ago but I still worry.
I just hope Kevin Rudd doesn't follow Paul Keating's footsteps.

I don't know if you realise but it was Paul Keatings reforms that had the economy on the up when Johnny took over! Luv him or loath him, Keating had the economy on the right track, when Johnny took over, and before that, the whole world (not just Australia) was in a global recession.:)