How informed are *you* ? [Archive] - Bub Hub Pregnancy & Parenting Forum

allysophia

27-09-2007, 11:45

Shanaynay

27-09-2007, 11:53

I'm naughty.

I vax, I'm not really well informed. I have to admit I feel I've unconsciously chosen not to, because otherwise the decision might be too hard.

I am a sheep and vax because most other people do.

PunkyDiva

27-09-2007, 12:00

I'm naughty.
I am a sheep and vax because most other people do.

You're def not naughty and should be proud to be a sheep cause without the sheep there wouldn't really be a choice for most of us.:thumbsup:

My DH does work in Medical Research so am lucky to have someone to decipher info but have chosen to limit what I do and don't read cause so much is just pure garbage. I try hard to stick to documented facts. Too much info just overloads and makes me even more indecisive.

stellarella

27-09-2007, 12:08

I'm extremely well researched and I dont vax.

I am glad so many people do vaccinate because it means I can leave my son as he is.

However it does annoy me that so many people DONT research, DO vaccinate and then have the hide to criticise ME!!! :rolleyes:

ButterflyMama

27-09-2007, 12:12

I am extremely well researched and don't vax.

subaruforestermum

27-09-2007, 12:15

I vaccinated my son and will do with any other child I may have!!!!

I know a few basics, not much I will admit, but it never harmed me as a kid, and so I will continue to vaccinate.... I tak enote of what I am told about the vaccine when he gets it, and read what they give me, but thats it...

Prevention is sometimes easier than a cure....

But each to their own on the matter!

Shanaynay

27-09-2007, 12:17

Do you think anyone really could be extremely well researched and still vax? Wouldn't everything you read just say no no no?

Btw, I picked I vax but reasonably well informed. Well I know that there is evil stuff in them and that they aren't 100% effective and that there are risks and side effects, and that vax probably doesn't have a lot to do with declining disease rates, but I haven't really done research.

But I do know a lot more this time round than I did with my first DD. With my first DD I was shocked that there were people who actually chose not to do it. But now I completely understand and applaud them.

Beany

27-09-2007, 12:21

I voted "I vax and I'm reasonably informed (have read a bit, but not great amounts)"

However, both my husband and my father in law are very informed on the subject and I trust their guidance on the issue.

ShadyCharacter

27-09-2007, 12:30

Do you think anyone really could be extremely well researched and still vax? Wouldn't everything you read just say no no no?
I have one friend who is very well researched and still vaxes (she is a member of BH, so may throw in her two cents worth), but every other vax'ing parent I know has little to no education at all other than what the Drs tell them.

reAllytee

27-09-2007, 12:32

Im very informed due to my mum & her background.

Do i question things yes from both sides & always will.

Do i vax yes at this point i do.

SassyMummy

27-09-2007, 12:32

shed

27-09-2007, 12:33

I voted I don't vax and I'm reasonably informed (have read a bit, but not great amounts)

I voted this because I have read quite a bit but I tend to read alot when the next needle is due then decide to stick with my decision to keep delaying and then forget alot of what I have read, so I have forgotten some of what I read.

I have to justify it to DP every time we miss a needle because he is more pro-vax than I am. So far I have managed to convince him to keep delaying, so I must be doing something right.

The most recent missed vax was the MMR which was only two months ago and I have already forgotten most of it.

When he turns two I am going to re-address my decision, so that is ages away. Yay.

I don't have a problem with vaccinations as such, great idea etc, but not little babies. So when DS isn't a little baby anymore then its a whole different scenario for us.

Edited to add: when I say DP is pro-vax I actually mean he is more pro-go with what everyone else does.

Can I?

27-09-2007, 14:03

Do you think anyone really could be extremely well researched and still vax? Wouldn't everything you read just say no no no?

Yes....I am well informed and I do vax. I believe after all my research that the benefits of vaccinating outweigh the risks of vaccinating, so I choose what I believe is best for my children. I have delayed some vaccinations, and chosen not to have some of the extras, but I still believe in the benefits of vaccination.

I think it is almost impossible to find unbiased information on vaccinating our children, and sources from both sides of the argument can be discredited, so it's extremely difficult to even educate ourselves, let alone decide. I think that any parent who was truly informed about immunisation would realise that it is a difficult decision, and that there are so many things to consider that they would know that it is a decision that every family has to make for each of their children based on their individual circumstances.

Can I?

27-09-2007, 14:13

What do you consider to be a real professional? An immunologist? A paediatrician? A molecular biologist?

It depends who you are and what you see.

prideNJoy

27-09-2007, 14:15

I vax, but don't read up on it. I just get it done.

For some reason, I'm just not interested in reading about it. I have no idea why, but I just have absolutely not desire to learn more. Maybe that's a bad thing... I dunno...

I guess my main reasons for vaccinating DD, are that most people do it, that I've never known anyone who has had a reaction, and that DD isn't one of those kids who reacts to stuff... I know that sounds kinda weird, but it's true...

The only person I've met IRL who doesn't vax is the sickest person I know... which I know is only silly anecdotal evidence, but I dunno... I'm happy to continue vaccinating DD...

That's funny you say that, because it's the opposite for me.
All the children i know IRL that are vaxed are always sick, whether it be a cold or something else.
And the ones that i know of who aren't, are never sick, perhaps through Flu season they had a very mild head cold, and only for about 3 days if that!

Bron

27-09-2007, 14:20

I will say this though... No real professional i know of, vaccinate's their children.

Really? You should meet my husband, he is a health professional, and our baby is vaccinated. In fact, I have met many many health professionals in my line of work too (before going on maternity leave I worked for 10 years with health providers), and I've not met any who don't vaccinate.

As for me, yes I research, and I vax. It's not just about protecting my baby, (which is of course hugely important) it is also about responsibility to my community and the world. It has already been noted in this thread that immunising children stops non immunised children from getting diseases, so yes, I feel we do have a responsibility towards the entire community to stop disease.

tiggles

27-09-2007, 14:28

My daughter has been fully vacinated.

Although I am pro vacination, the main reason I vacinated her, is a few years ago I worked with a woman my age (late 20s then) who had survived polio as a child (she grew up in Asis). This lady was in cronic pain all day every day and will be until she dies. She walked and moved like a 80 year old.

Thats a big enough reason for me, what if I hadent vacinated and my daughter contracted Polio, it would be my fault..

ShadyCharacter

27-09-2007, 14:31

Just out of curiosity, if you knew a child who had died or had a serious reaction (brain damage, etc) to a vaccine, would that be enough of a reason for you NOT to vaccinate?

westerner

27-09-2007, 14:32

I will say this though... No real professional i know of, vaccinate's their children.

Whats that supposed to mean.. :confused:

What do you consider to be a real professional?

Thats exactly what im trying to figure out..

OP - We vax our son (and will do future kids) and i would say im reasonably informed.. I have researched it and i agree with what Bron said so i dont need to type much else.. :yes:

As for me, yes I research, and I vax. It's not just about protecting my baby, (which is of course hugely important) it is also about responsibility to my community and the world. It has already been noted in this thread that immunising children stops non immunised children from getting diseases, so yes, I feel we do have a responsibility towards the entire community to stop disease.

shed

27-09-2007, 14:42

I would like someone to explain to me why a newborn baby should have to have the Hep B?

Because as far as I am aware, its because herd immunity relies on most members of the community to be vaccinated, and they get the babies when they are born because they are at the hospital. That's the main reason. Its got nothing to do with protection of that baby and the schedule starts soon after anyway, which includes Hep B.

So I need that explained to me from the other side of the fence, not in a defensive way, I am merely curious as to what the so-called benefits are to a baby or the community to have an extra shot of Hep B vaccine at less than one day old.

Thanks

ShadyCharacter

27-09-2007, 14:43

As for me, yes I research, and I vax. It's not just about protecting my baby, (which is of course hugely important) it is also about responsibility to my community and the world. It has already been noted in this thread that immunising children stops non immunised children from getting diseases, so yes, I feel we do have a responsibility towards the entire community to stop disease.
Yep, I totally agree that vaccines are somewhat effective and herd immunity gives me more freedom to make my choice.

But at the end of the day, as much as I will do what I can for the community, I won't compromise my sons health for the sake of others.

cwsmum

27-09-2007, 14:44

I know a little, but I don't feel any need to research further. It's too hard to work out what's cr@p (cr@p) and what's not online so I'd just end up confused anyway :laughing: Both my kids are vax'd but what other people choose to do is up to them, I'm not gonna try to convince them to change their mind :)

I am glad so many people do vaccinate because it means I can leave my son as he is.
So, if there came a time when there were more people who chose not to vax than to have it done, would you vax your son? (just curious :) )

Can I?

27-09-2007, 14:46

I would like someone to explain to me why a newborn baby should have to have the Hep B?

I don't get that one either. None of my 3 sons have had it.

tiggles

27-09-2007, 14:48

Yes I would still vacinate. The benfits far outway the risks.

To me, the argument is like "I wont let my child be driven in a car, as there is a risk of having a car crash".

Also, the main reasons these diseases have been irradicated from Australia is due to the majority of the population being vacinated.

Just my personal thoughts, I do not wish to insult other members.

stellarella

27-09-2007, 14:49

So, if there came a time when there were more people who chose not to vax than to have it done, would you vax your son? (just curious :) )

I'd have to re-think my decision.
I still re-think my decision every day based on our circumstances.

Its always a risk assessment. Risk vs benefit. :)

westerner

27-09-2007, 15:01

Just to clarify for those that dont understand.

I said that this topic is subjective AND no health professional i know of vaccinates their children.

This doesn't mean professionals only vaccinate or not, im merely mentioning the many i know. :D

Arhh thats better, now i understand..
Wasnt quite sure what point you were trying to make with your previous post..

No real professional
Thanks for elaborating and clearing that up..
Just a case of bad wording..

:)

xkwzit

27-09-2007, 15:37

Do you think anyone really could be extremely well researched and still vax? Wouldn't everything you read just say no no no?
I have researched also and still vax. I think that all researched ppl are aware that vax is not 100% effective and that there is risk. No-one disputes that. It is a risk assessment and like everything, it is your perception of risk / reward that will make your decision. Nothing in life is risk free, the decision either way carries it's own set of risks and benefits.

Just out of curiosity, if you knew a child who had died or had a serious reaction (brain damage, etc) to a vaccine, would that be enough of a reason for you NOT to vaccinate?

I think that it may well sway your decision (because it will alter your perception of the risk when you have seen it for yourself). I think that you would be a special sort of person if you could put that to one side and not consider it in your vax assessment.

I would like someone to explain to me why a newborn baby should have to have the Hep B?

Because as far as I am aware, its because herd immunity relies on most members of the community to be vaccinated, and they get the babies when they are born because they are at the hospital. That's the main reason. Its got nothing to do with protection of that baby and the schedule starts soon after anyway, which includes Hep B.

So I need that explained to me from the other side of the fence, not in a defensive way, I am merely curious as to what the so-called benefits are to a baby or the community to have an extra shot of Hep B vaccine at less than one day old.

Thanks

For most of us and our babies, there is no benefit. There is only benefit for babies who are in a risky environment. This is one vax that I did not have. It just seemed unwise to me to have an injection for a newborn, when there might be a reaction to it. Most common reaction being an elevated temperature, so you should keep the fluids up. That's a bit difficult when you have yet to establish BFing. My paed backed me all the way, and told me a child is fully vaxxed having only the 2, 4 and 6 months shots anyway. So unless your baby is at a high risk of contracting HepB in those first two months, there is no need for that vaccination (and not just IMO, but also according to my paed).

Cheers

Noah_and_Elijah

27-09-2007, 15:45

Yes I know the risks and benefits and yes I vaccinate.

allysophia

27-09-2007, 15:47

Im very informed due to my mum & her background.

Do i question things yes from both sides & always will.

Do i vax yes at this point i do.

I don't mean to put you down here, but I get lots of vax/non-vax info from my sister who is medically educated, and from family, but I don't consider this good information. None of them have shown me any graphs and given nearly the same details and indepth look as a book - any book, on the subject. (especially the australian medical handbook, for instance!)

KarniF00l

27-09-2007, 15:49

To answer the OPs original question, I haven't vaxed DD and I'm VERY well informed (ie- know ingredients, side effects, the lot!). I know enough to be able to make the right decision for my DD2 not to vaccinate.

However my eldest 3 are vaxed, unfortunately back then I didn't have the information or else I wouldn't have vaxed them either. I certainly didn't know that we had a choice to vax or not, wish I knew better. :(

ShadyCharacter

27-09-2007, 15:54

I think that it may well sway your decision (because it will alter your perception of the risk when you have seen it for yourself). I think that you would be a special sort of person if you could put that to one side and not consider it in your vax assessment.
Sorry, I was actually asking in response to a few peoples comments that they choose to vacc because they have seen someone who has polio, pertussis, etc... I was asking on the other hand, what if you had seen someone with a severe adverse reaction to a vaccine?

I think either way would be hard to ignore, which is why I wouldn't base my decision on such an experience.

allysophia

27-09-2007, 16:00

Sorry, I was actually asking in response to a few peoples comments that they choose to vacc because they have seen someone who has polio, pertussis, etc... I was asking on the other hand, what if you had seen someone with a severe adverse reaction to a vaccine?

I think either way would be hard to ignore, which is why I wouldn't base my decision on such an experience.

Polio is of special interest to me actually, because IL always bring it up.

My argument is. 1000people died or suffered long term damage from polio last year. 30,000 died from rabies last year. Why not vaccination against rabies? Because rabies has been eradicated from Australia? - Well, according to The WHO so has polio!

:idea:

reAllytee

27-09-2007, 16:06

I don't mean to put you down here, but I get lots of vax/non-vax info from my sister who is medically educated, and from family, but I don't consider this good information. None of them have shown me any graphs and given nearly the same details and indepth look as a book - any book, on the subject. (especially the australian medical handbook, for instance!)

Ok for starters my mother isnt medically trained.

She is a Polio surviver who does a lot of things behind the scenes in regards to vax etc. So she is given a lot of info from not just medical persons but also from the research side etc.

I also have been to a few anti-vax seminars which are interesting & have also read up on a lot of thing brought into question this way through the net.

I also have a partner who does a lot of research on the topic.

ETA : And on the question of adverse reactions to vax's as ive stated before in many other threads etc i do see this side of it. I for starters was a child who reacted to vax's, breathing difficulties etc so im not totally blind to that side either.

So no i dont feel put down because i have access to a lot more than many people do, thanks :)

mum2my4

27-09-2007, 16:26

I've spent hours and hours pouring over information about vax, the particulars of diseases.

Anyhow, not to digress, I've spent hours and hours researching particular vaccines and the "effectiveness" of those vaccines.

I've even read the Australian Immunization Handbook. Yup! Good read! Not to mention a hell of a lot of books on the subjects, and researched the ingredients in vaccines also!

So, how many other people feel they're equally informed?

Poll coming!

My mum is very anti vax, when I had my first child she sent me a stack of papers the size of a phone book about vaccines :eek:

I read it all and still chose to vax my kids. The only exception being chicken pox which I didn't give them.

I feel like I did do research on both sides before making my decision :thumbsup:

Josh

27-09-2007, 17:11

I voted yes, I am pretty well informed, i have been watching closely studies done on vaccines for around 17yrs now, and i always go by the fact that i was vaxed as a kid, i have had chicken pox, german measles/measles,i only got those 2 very mildly didn't even hardly notice.
A friend of mine is very pro vax (she's a child care worker) and after her last baby was born she had a shot of rubella as most of us do, and she had an Anaphylactic reaction to that shot,but after all that happened to her she still urges parents to vaccinate.

Pixie

27-09-2007, 17:22

chameleon

27-09-2007, 21:23

There wasn't an option for me. I am undecided! DD was fully vaccinated till 12 months but she hasn't had the chicken pox one as I am still trying to research it.

I don't think I am that well informed. I have done weeks and weeks of reading and harrassing some members on here with questions:o And am about to start reading some books but I still feel so confused!:confused: I don't have anyone around me who knows anything about immunisations either so no one IRL to discuss it with.
I think I probably know a bit more than a lot of people but definitely no where near as much as some of the bubhubbers!:no:

hayleysmummy

27-09-2007, 21:27

RedPanda

27-09-2007, 21:29

I vaccinate and am reasonably well-informed. I am aware of the risks of vax, and find them to be less scary than the diseases themselves.

Nowhere

27-09-2007, 21:42

im have not read up on vaxintating, to busy reading up on my dd existing conditions, so no i havent read up im not wel informed BUT mikenzees, immunologist, cardi, GI , pead, respiratory dr are al well informed and advice we get her vaxinated so we do

RedPanda

27-09-2007, 21:44

That's a good point Mikenzees mum. I think it's important to be aware of the consequences of our decisions, however I also put a great deal of faith in our family doctor. I trust him, I trust his advice. I'm not a doctor, so to a certain extent, my research can only take me so far.

Bron

27-09-2007, 21:53

Another thing worth considering - the federal government funds a vaccination program for all children up to the age of four, which also includes some incentive payments for GPs, immunisation allowance and most importantly the cost of the vaccine itself. This is not a small amount of money (don't ask me how much, I'm not at work anymore, so I couldn't tell you quickly).

As a commonwealth public servant, I can tell you that getting money out of the government for a program like this is like getting blood out of a stone. They won't fund something willy nilly.

The only reason the government would fund an immunisation scheme is if it decreases the cost of health care in the long run. In other words, the cost is worth it because ultimately it is cheaper to have an immune community than one susceptible to disease.

If vaccines really had such terrible side effects, then the cost benefit ratio would be tipped the other way and the government would not subsidise them.

I should add, I am not a fan of the commonwealth government, and don't blindly believe that just because they do something it makes sense. I am simply explaining this from my own experience in working within both the state and commonwealth health systems for many years. Cost is (sadly) everything.

KapowSchazam

27-09-2007, 21:57

I selectively vax.

I have read as much as I'm able (time allowing, of course!) but no handbooks lol!

Freya

27-09-2007, 22:04

Well I have to admit I vax and am VERY unimformed but that is changing after reading alot of stellarella says it has made me want to investigate it more. I had no idea that you didnt have to vax until I came onto bubhub. So his next vaccinations are due in 2 months so I have to get onto the research and read through some more threads so I can make an IMFORMED decision.

stellarella

27-09-2007, 22:16

I would like to be able to put my faith in a GP however GPs also want to tell me that BFing past 6 months is not beneficial to my child, that he needs antibiotics at the drop of a hat...medical professionals also try to tell women they need c/secs when they dont, they induce us when they dont need to, they tell us drugs during labour are OK, they like to 'do' things to us all the time, they really like to USE technology to the nth degree, needed or not.

They like to control things so in their minds taking action is better than letting nature take its course. Its just the way they think. They love new drugs, new interventions etc. Its just a mind set.

Medical technology/advancement is great used conservatively but we have gone overboard demonstrated by the fact that they want to give newborns the gardisil vaccine and they already give newborns the hep B vaccine.

Its just going to get more out of hand and more ridiculous as they keep coming up with vaccines.

I suppose it depends which kind of health philosophy you live by. This is not how I want to live.

RedPanda

27-09-2007, 22:20

My OB and GP are quite in tune with my beliefs Ella. Sounds like you've met some who are not quite as flexible or empathetic! My GP refused to give my husband a vax. He also does not give antibiotics scripts unless absolutely necessary.

I have an OB who is very much against unnecessary c-sects, and intervention without reason. If he wasn't, I wouldn't go to him. He's very old-school, and doesn't like new-fangled stuff! He doesn't do internals, or the diabetes test. He also says scans are optional and will only write a referral if I advise him that I want one.

Trusting a GP means that you've got to know them (I've known mine for 20 years), and you trust their judgement. I wouldn't see any doctor if they gave advice like not breastfeeding after six months etc.

RedPanda

27-09-2007, 22:25

Oops, just thought I should clarify. He does like the 20-week scan to be done, but does not tell people to get the D/S test done unless they want.

jaydensmum

27-09-2007, 23:47

I vax and reasonably informed. I have seen some cases of people with the conditions that you can get vax'd for and its not nice. I would rather my children be protected from these horrible conditions! :yes:

Grizabella

28-09-2007, 00:02

I didn't vote. The way I see it - is that my decision is mine alone - and feel no need to explain it, either for or against. I also respect every other mother's choice in regards to this matter and many others.

3boys1girl

28-09-2007, 00:03

I am a registered Nurse who used to work in a GPs sugery and has given thousands (if only I had a dollar for eveyone!) of immunisations and im very well informed as I have attended many seminars on immunisations and I VAX! :thumbsup:

I have also worked in kids wards in hospitals and have seen what non vaxing has done to some children and dont wish to put my child through the same experiences. I also belive people have the right to choose wether to vax or not.

The only vaccination I have refused is the newborn hep B as I feel that if your child does not have any risk factors for getting hep B then its not necessary (such as family history or in child care etc) Getting the 2,4,6 mth hep b vax covers them totally

Shanaynay

28-09-2007, 00:23

I honestly think the medical professionals you know PerthPony are definitely the minority.
I too have medical family members and work and train closely with medical professionals and the topic of vaxxing does come up - not a single non-vaxxer among them.
I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing, but I just think the medicos you know are probably a minority and don't accurately represent the rest of the medical population.

jaydensmum

28-09-2007, 00:27

I believe everyone is entitled to make their choice on whether to vaccinate or not. Opinions are allowed to be expressed and they shouldnt be put down for doing so.

shell25

28-09-2007, 00:32

We don't Vax - we are very well informed though depends on who you are comparing us to.

I still worry when my DS of 14 months gets a temp, though we will wait till it gets to about 40 before we think about drugs to bring it down -hence allowing the fever to break naturally and thus boosting his immune system.(has worked really well)
Sure this is really hard, harder then we ever thought really.

We question our decisions regularly.

We have chosen to be very proactive with his health care and our lives, that is not to, in anyway say that PRO VAX'ERS are not.

As a NO VAX'er we are always looking at the risk vs benefit of the environment.

While he is the happiest and healthiest child that we know and we are able to control his environment then we shall continue to NOT VAX.

After working in alternate health and seeing the down side of VAX I really had to research it
- why and why not and was it suitable for our family.

The answer was very clearly NO, not at this stage.:)

RedPanda

28-09-2007, 01:10

I do know my "group" are in the minority but give it another 10 years and i think the vax rate will be 30% lower... which would stand the countries vaccination rate at approximately 50%.

Is this enough to maintain herd immunity? I wonder how low the rate would have to be before herd immunity was under threat. Just out of interest PP, what are the vax rates in Asian nations? Or the US? Is Australia a high-vaccing country, or a low one?

3boys1girl

28-09-2007, 01:17

Covers them totally??? Where did you get this information from. Thats quite misleading as vaccinations do not offer 100% immunity from anything, far from it actually.

My mother has been a nurse for 25 years, including senior management positions and she does not vaccinate. I am into my 4th year in my study to become a doctor and i do not vaccinate, my doctor does not vaccinate and neither does my physchotherapist. My list could just go on. :D

In regard to your statement about seeing what damage diseases can do, well i come from the other side of the hill, and i have seen some awful awful results from vaccinations, and no side effect from a disease has ever compared to it or has even come close. :yes: :)

I get my information from the division of GPs who liase and offer seminars from the govenment for GP nurses. And no some of vaccinations such as chicken pox dont provide 100% immunity. When I said covers them totally I ment that there is no point getting the newborn as it gives the same dosage as if u get the 2,4,6mth ones. I worded it wrong.
I think scruffysilverwattle is right in saying that your medical professionals are definalty in the minority! I know a whole hospital full very rarley come across a medical professional that doesnt vaccinate. After all arnt medical professionals advocates for medicines and what they can do for society?
Recations are rare in vaccinations much rarer than the diseases that turn up on the doorstep of the hospital. when u start to work in a hospital if thats what u are going to do, then u will see this.

I rarely come to these to vax or not to vax topics as I know they are just a argument waiting to happen.
I dont belive people should come to these forums and try to push ideas on to others. It is up to the parent and what ever they decide to do wether it is vax or not to vax then they have to deal with what ever consiquenses that lie ahead

3boys1girl

28-09-2007, 01:31

Here is a interesting summary put out by WHO
http://www.who.int/vaccines-documents/GlobalSummary/GlobalSummary.pdf

Careful its a PDF and large file!

It clearly shows in its graphs how the decrease of diseases corellates to the increase of immunisations.

I think its funny how non vaxers are so against vaccinating but if it wasnt for mums like myself who vaccinate then diseases like polio would still be in our society today. Non vaxers should be thanking us instead of trying to tell us how silly we are for vaccinating. For me it was the the best decsion for my children and i dont regret it one bit!

Alisonp

28-09-2007, 14:16

I am what I would consider to be well educated as I have a PhD in microbiology/immunology and worked as a research scientist for the US Food and Drug Administration (Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research - the part of the FDA that regulates vaccines) attending many seminars and discussing vax issues with the top professionals in the US and visiting scientist from lots of countries. Knowing what I know, I have chosen to fully vaccinate my child.

For the record all of the people that I know choose to vaccinate.

To be honest I used to get involved in online vax vs non-vax debates but I have now come to the conclusion that it isn't worth the time or the frustration. While there are a number of non-vaxers who are genuinely interested in the facts and keep an open mind there are a small but active minority who really are just intent on spreading mis-information that suites their anti-vax agenda.

To be honest I do understand some of the reasoning behind some parent chosing not to vaccinate against certain diseases. There are small but real risks to vaccination and some diseases are quite rare in Australia thesedays. But that sort of reasoning really does rely on herd immunity in the population remaining high and that requires a high vaccine uptake in the general population.

That means that if you are a non-vaxer, isn't it better for your children that everyone else continues to vaccinate?? Think about it.:hair:

stellarella

28-09-2007, 14:22

That means that if you are a non-vaxer, isn't it better for your children that everyone else continues to vaccinate?? Think about it.:hair:

Hence the number of times we have applauded herd immunity. ;)

It doesnt sound like you have much respect for parents who dont vaccinate. What a shame.

shell25

28-09-2007, 14:30

Can I pose the question and I don't want to take away from this thread at all.

Do religious beliefs come into the decision to Vax or not for anyone?

As some Vax are produced by a blood-by- product
-I'm thinking more about Anti-D with the Rhys factor issue here.

Some religions are apposed to any blood products so would that then mean that you would then choice to not Vax as well?

I do not wish to judge your choices simply asking out of interest/curiosity.
:confused:

ShadyCharacter

28-09-2007, 14:33

That means that if you are a non-vaxer, isn't it better for your children that everyone else continues to vaccinate?? Think about it.:hair:If you read this (currently active) thread, you will see all of the non-vaxxers have repeatedly stated that they are grateful for herd immunity.

http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=124508&page=9

forbetoel

28-09-2007, 14:33

I am pretty well reseached, I tend to keep away from the internet, as I find most of the so called studies to more than biased one way or another. I have friends who are doctors and two good friends who are nurses and have listened to their advice as well as some books. I have vaxed all of my kids, and are more than happy that it is the right thing to do:yes:

ShadyCharacter

28-09-2007, 14:35

Non vaxers should be thanking us instead of trying to tell us how silly we are for vaccinating.
Again, all of the non-vaxers involved in this thread have repeatedly stated that herd immunity is helpful for us... no-one has told anyone they are silly for vaxing :no:

forbetoel

28-09-2007, 14:41

ShadyCharacter

28-09-2007, 14:54

Again :)

Again, all of the non-vaxers involved in this thread have repeatedly stated that herd immunity is helpful for us... no-one has told anyone they are silly for vaxing :no:

QTB

28-09-2007, 15:10

I havent voted either, there is no option for me...

I am a vax'er and a non-vax'er

i have very throughly researched and came to the decision that he would have some and not others. so immunisations the benefits outweight the risk and in some they dont. just my 2 cents worth :yes:

ETA: i also always delay the 'schedule' with the imms i do deside to give him

BreakfastatTiffanys

28-09-2007, 15:15

Relying on herd immunity it not enough for me, as everyone has said so many people are choosing to NOT vax. This means these diseases may have a chance to come back in to society in large numbers. What will we all do then.

I do vax, I too have seen babies with whooping cough, and polio and the like and to be honest it is just to scary not to vax . For me anyway.:yes:

ShadyCharacter

28-09-2007, 15:27

Relying on herd immunity it not enough for me, as everyone has said so many people are choosing to NOT vax. I don't rely on herd immunity, its a bonus :) And the vax rate in Australia is still over 93% (possibly higher), so I don't know why you think 'so many' are choosing not to? :confused:

shed

28-09-2007, 15:41

I think its funny how non vaxers are so against vaccinating but if it wasnt for mums like myself who vaccinate then diseases like polio would still be in our society today. Non vaxers should be thanking us instead of trying to tell us how silly we are for vaccinating. For me it was the the best decsion for my children and i dont regret it one bit!

I would politely like to request you to point out one single post where a non-vaxer has said, stated or even implied that vaxers are silly.

Non-vaxers think no such thing. I think vaxers are brave, I don't think they are silly.

I don't believe in vaccinating small babies, so I haven't had my son vaccinated yet, that is my personal preference, but I don't think mothers who stick to the schedule are silly.

You are saying things that simply aren't true and I am sorry, but I can't just let you say that and not comment upon it.

Oh, and in regarding to thanks...

Thank you from the bottom of my heart, for vaccinating your child, I fully appreciate it. I am not prepared to take the risk that I perceive that you have taken, so yes, I do thank you very sincerely and appreciate the herd immunity very very much.

Don't ever think that I think vaxers are silly. Most non-vaxers wrestle with their decision regularly, its much more complicated than just dismissing something as being silly and therefore not doing it.

Nowhere

28-09-2007, 17:57

Im slightly more informed today than i was yesrurday thanks to two ladies in annother post, PP and shaddy thankyou for that, doesnt chance the fact she is vaxinated but stil im slightly more informed

reAllytee

28-09-2007, 18:35

shed

28-09-2007, 18:39

oh, and here's me thinking its coz I'm really really really good looking ;) :laughing:

RedPanda

28-09-2007, 19:01

oh, and here's me thinking its coz I'm really really really good looking ;) :laughing:

That's why I love you!;)

Refresh

28-09-2007, 19:16

I dont vax but I definately DONT think people who do are silly at all...no no no....we are all trying to do what is best for our precious children. I TOTALLY understand why people vax their kids,absolutely, positively, completely, fully, totally:yes: It is a hrad deicision to make.

xkwzit

28-09-2007, 21:51

I would politely like to request you to point out one single post where a non-vaxer has said, stated or even implied that vaxers are silly.

Shed, I don't want to start a fight, but there are always statements in these kinds of threads that comment on the level education of or research done by parents who choose to vax. I'm not naming names but what about this:

... but every other vax'ing parent I know has little to no education at all other than what the Drs tell them.

I'm not going to go looking for more posts, because the point is made really. I know that not everyone will do it, but some do and so the post about being called "silly" is can be justified.

I am genuinely surprised that ppl who admit to relying on herd immunity (and I know that not all non-vaxxers do ;) ) push non-vaxxing so hard (generally, not in this thread). Seems sort of counter-intuitive to me.

Cheers

shed

28-09-2007, 21:59

I am still surprised that ppl who admit to relying on herd immunity (and I know that not all non-vaxxers do) are selling non-vaxxing so hard. Seems counter-intuitive to me.

I agree!! :yes: :smiliedance:

That's why I don't do it, lol.

But when I admitted I encourage and support other people vaxing their kids I got called a selfish cow :p :laughing:

3boys1girl

28-09-2007, 22:24

I would politely like to request you to point out one single post where a non-vaxer has said, stated or even implied that vaxers are silly.

Non-vaxers think no such thing. I think vaxers are brave, I don't think they are silly.

I don't believe in vaccinating small babies, so I haven't had my son vaccinated yet, that is my personal preference, but I don't think mothers who stick to the schedule are silly.

You are saying things that simply aren't true and I am sorry, but I can't just let you say that and not comment upon it.

Oh, and in regarding to thanks...

Thank you from the bottom of my heart, for vaccinating your child, I fully appreciate it. I am not prepared to take the risk that I perceive that you have taken, so yes, I do thank you very sincerely and appreciate the herd immunity very very much.

Don't ever think that I think vaxers are silly. Most non-vaxers wrestle with their decision regularly, its much more complicated than just dismissing something as being silly and therefore not doing it.

Im sorry I cant remember the actual post where vaxers where called silly beacause I have chosen to stay away from these threads (and im starting to wonder why i came back) So it was a while ago now.

I think we all have to agree to disagree in these sorts of threads as we all have our own opnions. And im sure PP has found out that she was wrong about people just vaccinating as its the "done thing" As there are educated people on this thread that have chosen to vaccinate. And even if u dont have a degree of some sort then im sure no parent goes into this decision light heartedly and vaccinates for the best interests of their child.

"I am not prepared to take the risk that I perceive that you have taken, so yes, I do thank you very sincerely and appreciate the herd immunity very very much." QUOTE Shed

Shed i belive u are taking a bigger risk than me by not vaccinating, but thats your choice. Working in a hospital i have seen more kids sick from not being vaccinated than being vaccinated.

Anyway thats my 2 cents worth and now I will go back to staying away from this thread before it gets me into trouble
Have a nice day :)

stellarella

28-09-2007, 22:36

Shed i belive u are taking a bigger risk than me by not vaccinating, but thats your choice. Working in a hospital i have seen more kids sick from not being vaccinated than being vaccinated.

Anyway thats my 2 cents worth and now I will go back to staying away from this thread before it gets me into trouble
Have a nice day :)

With all due respect your own personal survey is not really the best way for other people to make their decisions.

I know I prefer to look at scientific studies which give a snap shot of the whole story rather than a very limited and completely irrelevant set of observations.

What if you happened to work at a hospital with an unusually high number of cases at that particular moment in time?

Anyway you believe that non-vaxers take a bigger risk and we believe that vaxers take a bigger risk. It sounds like you think you are right. But we think we are right too. :laughing:

PaperTiger

29-09-2007, 10:02

And even if u dont have a degree of some sort then im sure no parent goes into this decision light heartedly and vaccinates for the best interests of their child.

People without degrees can, and are, just as intelligent and informed as those with them.......however,
in my experience in dealing with health consumers for over 30 years now, I found that most (but not all) consumers(with degrees or without) are ill informed and lack understanding of the complexities involved in their choices to vaccinate or not, to circumscise or not, to allow intervention in childbirth or not, or whatever.
I relish that we have access to the web and forums like these, so that if they choose to do so, people can become much more informed and debate all these issues. Its no use looking to professionals to help in the decision making process, like it or not, in most cases they have their own agendas to deal with first and foremost.

29-09-2007, 10:47

People without degrees can, and are, just as intelligent and informed as those with them.......however,
in my experience in dealing with health consumers for over 30 years now, I found that most (but not all) consumers(with degrees or without) are ill informed and lack understanding of the complexities involved in their choices to vaccinate or not, to circumscise or not, to allow intervention in childbirth or not, or whatever.
I relish that we have access to the web and forums like these, so that if they choose to do so, people can become much more informed and debate all these issues. Its no use looking to professionals to help in the decision making process, like it or not, in most cases they have their own agendas to deal with first and foremost.

Very well said. I agree, i think it's up to the individuals to make their own decisions and be as informed as practical. There is loads of info out there if you just try and find it on any parenting decision. I have found out so much information on parenting through forums and websites and am much more informed than i used to be about certain things. But whatever decision we make as long as its in the best interests of our children i think there is no right or wrong answer, just choices to make and my decisions are always being assessed to make sure i'm doing the right thing for my child with the information i have at hand. :)

BTW - I have read a fair amount into vaxxing and have chosen not to vax DS and i am very happy with my decision.

Also to the comment about vaccinations eradicating the diseases, i have seen a graph somewhere else where this is contradicted and the disease rates where on the decline well before vaccines were introduced. Wish i had access to this graph, but anyways, i would really like to know which one is true it's so hard to get unbiased info.

Josh

29-09-2007, 10:52

If the non vaxers feel so strongly regarding vaccines being dangerous for young babies, then you should lobby the govt, make it clear to the pollies that vaccines are no good for small babies. I have read here so many times that a lot of non vaxers wont immunise their small babies, Maybe the govt might alter the schedule.

shed

29-09-2007, 10:55

I don't need to lobby the government to refuse to vaccinate my baby. I just don't get him done.

ShadyCharacter

29-09-2007, 13:23

There was a similar poll to this one roughly 12 months ago... but I can't find it. Does anyone else know where I might look?

xkwzit

29-09-2007, 14:36

WOW, I was replying back to your post X and it just vanished..LOL

Anyway yeah i got the point she was trying to make there, it was just worded in a way which made me think different.

Hi PP
Yes sorry about the disappearing post, I posted it before I had read up to the point where you had all sorted it out. So rather than rehash stuff that everyone else had already got straight, I just deleted it.
*smiles sheepishly* :)

I agree!! :yes: :smiliedance:

That's why I don't do it, lol.

But when I admitted I encourage and support other people vaxing their kids I got called a selfish cow :p :laughing:
I know you aren't a selfish cow (does that count for anything? :) )