Not sure what to ask... (long)

[Notchalk]

Honestly, I don't know what I want to ask...

I really like the idea of AP, and certainly do practice it to a large degree. Will is still in our room in his cot - we used to cosleep from the start of the night until it got too dangerous with his crawling, so we did my version of CC (15 second increments, not minutes!) to get him to start out in his cot for safety reasons. This worked well and quickly. When he wakes in the night, I feed him sitting up on my bed, and he falls asleep at the end of the feed, and gets put back in his cot. If he is having trouble resettling at all, he comes to bed with us.

I feel like I am not a wife anymore though. I am really tired, and finding it hard to cope with normal daily housework, and have no libido to speak of. I think we have had sex twice since the birth...

Will is quite demanding at times, it seems like he has developed that insecure attachment I never thought I would encounter. He is 8.5 months old now, and whinges if I walk away (to the other side of the room to get something, etc) even if I'm looking at him or talking to him the whole time.

Mother's group is a nightmare, as he is clawing at my legs the whole time. If I have to go to the toilet, I can hear him crying. And today I got, "Is he always like this?" And I had to answer, "Most of the time, yes."

I try not to let him cry at all, when I pick him up, he usually doesn't want to feed, and tries to get down again. If I put him down, he wants to get up again... and when he whinges I try to distract him, or keep talking to him as I am doing what I have to do. I can get nothing done. Once a week I get really angry, and once I even said, "F@#%ing shut up!" to him. OMG did I feel disgustingly awful after that!!

At night, we eat dinner together, then either DH or I have a shower with him (which he LOVES!) and then give him a sorbolene/rosehip oil massage (for his eczema prevention), and this is where the crying begins again... he hates it now. I think it has become habbit to cry and writhe around while getting the cream rubbed in, and nappy on, and then sleeping bag on, etc. It is so frustrating, I almost dread having to change him for bed!

After he goes to bed (around 7-8pm) I finally get time to myself. I am far too tired to do any housework, and if I go to bed early I distrub Will and he wakes usually a few times before I go to bed anyway, and needs the dummy back in to resettle. He has NEVER been one to comfort suck on me. I feel rejected and that is silly, I know. So, I go to bed late, usually after 11, often later. I am too tired to even contemplate sex. I am woken several times a night to either replace the dummy or for a feed, and sometimes I have to stay awake for an hour or more while he sleepily crawls all over the bed, or tries to get to the side tables, etc. And so we get back to sleep eventually and get up mid-morning.

I guess I'm asking, is this normal? Overall, he gets called "One of the happiest babies" people have ever seen. And he is! He smiles all the time, is *really* smart, but he's a wimp! LOL ... saying that, he doesn't seem like the cuddly type - he won't settle down to a nice breastfeed, during the day he just crawls all over me, tries to get down, and doesn't drink as much as I feel he should. At night he feeds perfectly.

Ah, I don't know what I'm doing or saying. I feel like I have lost me.

Sorry for such a long post - I guess I just needed to spill! Oh, there is so much more to say, but that's all :)

Jo

[Rainbowbrite]

I can totally relate to EVERYTHING you just posted. Infact I got out of bed this morning to put a post in the hope of some answers :(

Do you so-sleep during the day at all? We do only because MJ screams blue murder if I put her in the cot :eek: She will only fall asleep in my arms, and if she wakes & finds herself alone in the cot its heartbreaking for her. This from a babe who used to go into the cot, play till she went to sleep & then just call out to be picked up, not scream. She has become really clingy, not leaving me for more than 3 minutes before crying & crawling to me to be picked up.

After yet another sleepless night I thought i'd come on for some answers.

Sorry to hijack your thread, but just know that your not alone. If you ever want to PM me for a vent or to discuss stratergy's feel free.

Take care

[lukaelmo]

Hey Jo, I just read your post and I really feel for you. It sounds like you have a lovely little man, with a lot of energy all happening at the one time...

I would just like to say something about my own situation that might be a little help to you.

When the dude was born, I wanted, and still do to a certain extent, to be a supermum. And, because the dude is a very easy baby to look after, I am constantly reassured that I am doing well and that I am a great mum. On top of this very easy baby to look after, I also have an extremely supportive partner, who works from home.

If the dude cries for that little bit too long, I can leave him with his dad and take a walk.

If I am feeling frustrated for whatever reason, I can walk away and ask his dad to just take over for five minutes.

You get the idea.

Now I say all this, because it sounded in your post as though you are being supermum 24 hours a day. And while it is easy to be supermum with an easy baby; I think it can drive you completely barmy if you have a bubba that demands all of your attention all of the time.

Do you have a bit of time to yourself? Even getting away from a frustrating situation for 5 minutes can help you to come back and deal with it calmly and rationally.

Anyway, I may be completely off target, I just know that as much as I would like to do and be everything for my bubba, I am a better mum when I have a even a tiny bit of time for me.

Ooo I just noticed you are a midwife - how lovely! I can't wait to be pregnant again and bombard you with a million questions :D

Oooo I hope all that made sense :confused:

[lovemybub]

I don't know that I have a lot of answers for you girls, sorry :( but when I first had DD I saw a lady re post natal depression (which was more a case of first time nerves!!) and she said that when babies are born, they don't realise that they are separate from their mothers for some time. I don't remember what age she said it happens at, or whether it happens at different times for different babies, but there does come a time when they realise that they are a separate person from their mother and this is when they can have a type of separation anxiety.

Having said that, I know it doesn't make it any easier to cope with...

You may want to try talking to someone who specialises in sleeping and settling techniques - have a look at www.sleepandsettle.com.au and www.saveoursleep.com.au I can personally vouch for Natalie Hogg from Sleep and Settle. She came and had a consult at our home when Elizabeth was three weeks old and I can't tell you how much it helped me, even just in having confidence with settling our DD and a feed-play-sleep routine. It cost me $225 or something (she was with us for three hours), but it was worth it!!!

I noticed Notchalk talks about having to replace a dummy frequently - that is something that I know both of these sites talk about as being a sleep problem. When Natalie came to see me (remember DD was only three weeks old) I had been using a dummy and her advice was to put it away and only get it out in emergencies, like travelling in the car and needing to go another 10 minutes with bub crying for a feed. I put the dummy away for two days and got really sore nipples because DD was constantly sucking on me instead, and so ended up getting the dummy back out, but having said that, DD doesn't wake up when she loses her dummy in her sleep. I may pay for this later on, I suppose, but she is a baby who needs to suck, so for now her dummy stays.

But if it's becoming a problem for you, maybe it's time to look at weaning him off it. I have heard some people talk about giving them a blanket or a soft toy that they can cuddle instead, but other than that I'm not sure how to do it.

I know Natalie also doesn't do controlled crying, if that's a concern for you. She is Karitane trained and talks more about having a sleep routine. I'm not sure what your financial situation is like, or what Natalie charges for phone consultations, but if you're as desperate as you sound for some solutions then maybe it will be worth it.

Sorry I can't be of more help - as my bub is still only 14 weeks I haven't even had as much experience as you mums! The Save our Sleep site has different publications available (and there is one on weaning off dummies) which would be a cheaper option than Natalie at Sleep and Settle, so maybe you could try there first.

Sending sleep vibes your way...

[Funkychicken]

I can totally relate to your situation. You poor thing, it's such a tough job looking after your first baby. I'm on number three now but DS#1 was just as you described. I couldn't move an inch from him without him crying. I spent the first six months of his life just holding him. And I too got comments from my mums group mums. Especially if I left a bit early because his whinging got too much.
It may sound hard to believe but it will get easier. Your DS will eventually begin detaching. Our DS is now 7 1/2 and happily integrated at school. Separation anxiety was a huge issue for him and even in his kinder year it occasionally reared up again. We still have an odd occasion when he gets worried but generally life is ok for him. I too have been guilty of losing my temper when he was a baby. It is so hard when you are tied to them 24 hrs and you are sleep deprived. Because you are there for him though he will grow knowing he can always come to you and trust that you'll be there when it counts.
The local MCH is always good to talk too as she will have seen this happen many times. Don't feel as though you have done anything wrong to cause this-some babies (especially boys) are just wired this way. There is also no such thing as a perfect parent, so take heart knowing all mums struggle at one time or another.
Hugs to you and your babe.

[JanetF]

Parenting can be hard work and exhausting and most of us don't have enough emotional or physical support. Many of us are not that interested in sex regardless of how we parent. That's a complex mix of tiredness and the hormones involved in lactation which can suppress libido. There are other ways to be intimate and close to your partner without rumpypumpy ;) Personally I find the sight of a man cleaning a toilet fairly stimulating IYKWIM :)

Your bub is doing a perfectly normal and natural thing right now. He's learning that he's separate from you and it's FREAKIN' HIM OUT!!!!!! How do you deal with that? You let him be as close as he needs, as often as he needs so that he learns that separate is still safe. The fact that people comment on him being a very happy baby is an indication of how well you're doing with that. Why not take him to the loo with you? My son has been lugged into more toilets than I can count as he couldn't bear to be away from me for that time and I couldn't be bothered spending all that time helping him calm down again if I left him at playgroup. He was very clear about needing to be CLOSE to me in social situations which I always supported him in and then almost magically one day at 18mths he suddenly bolted off into a party at our place and everyone went "OMG did you just see Conor?!" It DOES happpen, it just happens healthily to their own timetable and fighting it only makes it traumatic for them and a whole lot more traumatic for you. Don't worry about what other people say, if we all parented listening to the stray nasty comments we get in public we'd all be appalling parents!
http://www.mothering.com/articles/growing_child/discipline/tantrums.html
http://www.mothering.com/articles/body_soul/inspiration/giving_children_more.html

If he's feeling sad about bedtime and being put in his cot, he would start to protest when the ritual begins with the massage, wouldn't he? It's perfectly safe to have a baby in your bed once they're mobile. You need to teach them to climb down backwards safely, maybe put a spare mattress or lots of cushions around the bed to catch him if he tumbles. You can also buy or make bedrails specifically for cosleeping youngsters. My bed is knee high, Conor fell out of it twice with no illeffects, learnt to climb down and we've never had a problem since. Why not sidecar the cot so you don't have to get up to him? Put the cot against the wall, take off the side facing out, shove the bed against it and voila! instant extra room, instant access to mama and baby so no more getting out of bed.

The "you" stuff is important but really, "you" aren't gone. You are now adding parenting to the list of skills you possess - flamenco dancer, copywriter, chef, sex kitten and now also parent! A little book called "Buddhism for mothers" might help you as it's very gentle and supportive and really encourages us to find ourselves in our new surroundings. Parenthood comes as a shock to many of us, especially with all the misinformation currently peddled by sleep trainers and the like that babies must somehow be convenient and sleep at adult designated times, in adult designated ways, not do anything to disturb our pre-baby lives and all that rubbish. Actually parenting a small child is intensive and intense and as you've chosen to respond to your son in ways which nurture him as opposed to deny him the biological needs he has, you're doing a great job! Support, support, support is all important! We're not meant to parent in a void but in a group. Find women who get how you parent and why, there are lots of AP parents' groups around. Find women who will share cooking and cleaning with you, and hold your bubba close so you can do a wee without assistance sometimes ;)

Try these for some more ideas:
http://www.naturalchild.com/
- A website with a wealth of information designed to help people parent and treat their children with respect.

http://parentinghealth.com/modules/news/
- Australian site which seeks to heal families via education and conscious living.

http://www.yogababy.com.au
- Brisbane based yoga and gentle parenting site.

http://www.awareparenting.com/
- A website supporting the work of Aletha Solter Ph.D, assisting parents to form compassionate relationships with their children.

http://www.continuum-concept.org/
-Internet resource for readers of
Jean Liedloff's book 'The Continuum Concept'

http://www.pinky-mychild.com/
-Pinky McKay: author of '100 ways to calm the crying baby'. An Australian website with information on pregnancy, birth and parenting issues.

[Notchalk]

I can totally relate to EVERYTHING you just posted. Infact I got out of bed this morning to put a post in the hope of some answers :(

Do you so-sleep during the day at all?

Sorry to hijack your thread, but just know that your not alone. If you ever want to PM me for a vent or to discuss stratergy's feel free.

Take care
Donnelle

Hi Donnelle. Thanks for your post. I didn't think anyone would read through it all!

And I have absolutely NO problem with you 'hijacking' my post ;)

I sometimes co-sleep during the day, probably once or twice a week. He generally either feeds to sleep in my arms (only if I'm sitting on the edge of my bed) and I can put him in the cot then, or in his rocker with the dummy if he won't go to sleep in the cot. Even when co-sleeping during the day it can take AGES (over an hour) for him to stop crawling all over me and go to sleep. I just keep dragging him back to the boob, or lay him beside me with the dummy in if he's not hungry. No end of frustration.

I hope things get better for you soon, too!

Jo

[Notchalk]

Hey Jo, I just read your post and I really feel for you. It sounds like you have a lovely little man, with a lot of energy all happening at the one time...

YES! exactly!

I also have an extremely supportive partner, who works from home.

My husband works from home, too. Sometimes I am allowed to drop him in his office to have a shower or whatever, but not all the time, certainly not more than once or twice a week.

If the dude cries for that little bit too long, I can leave him with his dad and take a walk.

Hmm I can't do that during work hours - but I could do that *with* Will.

Do you have a bit of time to yourself? Even getting away from a frustrating situation for 5 minutes can help you to come back and deal with it calmly and rationally.

My time for myself is at night after Will has gone to bed. I get up to 45 min when he naps, but often he naps in the car if I am coming home from shopping or whatever. I do find getting out and about helps a lot, but finances atm suggest I shouldn't do it too often!

Anyway, I may be completely off target, I just know that as much as I would like to do and be everything for my bubba, I am a better mum when I have a even a tiny bit of time for me.

I don't think you are off target at all. Some days I can cope with the full-on-ness, and some days I can't so well. The internet and ABC talkback radio help keep me sane during the day ;) I have my laptop around, and if he's happy enough playing beside me, I can get some emails done and read my newsgroups/forums :)

Ooo I just noticed you are a midwife - how lovely! I can't wait to be pregnant again and bombard you with a million questions :D

Haha! I think I am a bit tainted with the wonderful birth experience I had (home waterbirth)... I will try to be un-biased

Oooo I hope all that made sense :confused:

Of course it did, and thankyou so much for your post !!

Jo

[JanetF]

I just want to add that changing to parenting in a more detached manner won't actually solve any of the stuff you're describing either as listening to your child scream isn't restful at all ;) Some of those things work in the short term but we're parenting to help our children become well adjusted adults, right? not convenient traumatised babies. You sound really normal to me, just tired and undersupported. More sleeping in would help too whenever DP is available!
*hugs*

[Notchalk]

Wow, thanks everyone for your replies. I didn't expect there to be so many, so I'm not going to do anymore individual replies, but I would like to thank you all so much for taking the time, not only to read mine, but to write such thoughtful replies. It is so nice to know it is understood.

JanetF thanks for all the links - I've already checked out Pinky's site, and I have both her books (signed copies from the Homebirth Conference in Mandurah).

I never thought of the fact that he could be dreading the going to sleep in his cot, and acting up during the massage and dressing as a result. I guess because he doesn't cry when in the shower, and he always cries now when I lay him down to change his nappy or clothes unless he is VERY distracted by a toy. When I feed him just before sleep, I put him in his cot and he is still sometimes a bit awake, and he just rolls over and goes to sleep. I try to get him to cuddle into his little blue bear, but he honestly couldn't care less whether it was there or not! ;)

When I re-read my original post this morning, I was a bit shocked! It sounds like I don't even like my beautiful boy, when infact I love him dearly, and miss him like mad when I do the odd casual shift back at work.

I love the way his warm little hands caress me when he feeds in the night.
I love his infectious smile.
I love how he is a little dynamo!
I love his deep blue eyes that seem to know a lot more than I thought he could.
I love his sense of humour - oh yes, he does have one!
I love his little voice and all his new 'words'
I love how he has a new 'trick' every week.
I love how he splashes in the water.
I love how he relaxes into me in the shower after a grumpy day.
I even love the accidental head-butts in the morning when he's too tired to hold his head up properly but still wants to crawl all over me.
And I even love how I get tears in my eyes as I type this! :o

[JanetF]

It doesn't sound like you don't love him! It just sounds like you're a bit stretched ;) A parenting forum where it's normal and ok to talk about that stuff without people telling you the "rod for your own back" crap is always useful in those times.

[Notchalk]

I just want to add that changing to parenting in a more detached manner won't actually solve any of the stuff you're describing either as listening to your child scream isn't restful at all ;) Some of those things work in the short term but we're parenting to help our children become well adjusted adults, right? not convenient traumatised babies. You sound really normal to me, just tired and undersupported. More sleeping in would help too whenever DP is available!
*hugs*

Thanks, Janet, and I totally agree with you. I am definitely not going to try to parent in a more detached manner. That is just not me or my philosophy. I guess I just needed people like you to reiterate what I'm trying to do here. And you've certainly helped today, thankyou :)

Jo

[lovemybub]

Try these for some more ideas:
http://www.naturalchild.com/
- A website with a wealth of information designed to help people parent and treat their children with respect.

http://parentinghealth.com/modules/news/
- Australian site which seeks to heal families via education and conscious living.

http://www.yogababy.com.au
- Brisbane based yoga and gentle parenting site.

http://www.awareparenting.com/
- A website supporting the work of Aletha Solter Ph.D, assisting parents to form compassionate relationships with their children.

http://www.continuum-concept.org/
-Internet resource for readers of
Jean Liedloff's book 'The Continuum Concept'

http://www.pinky-mychild.com/
-Pinky McKay: author of '100 ways to calm the crying baby'. An Australian website with information on pregnancy, birth and parenting issues.

Thanks so much for these links JanetF. I thought I would check them out, out of interest, and found a great article about the "Crying in Arms" approach - www.awareparenting.com/comfort.htm Very enlightening, and maybe explains why my DD has been 'unexplainably' fussy at times of late. :)

[JanetF]

I love Aletha Solter's work :)