And the hits keep on coming.... [Archive] - Bub Hub Pregnancy & Parenting Forum

Nickster

12-09-2007, 16:18

I'm not one to moan and whinge about my personal problems, but the CSA have me stumped.

We've just received a letter updating our payment for DH's remaining dependent son to his first "wife", and according to them, we are now due to pay an extra $300 per month over and above what we now pay.

Naturally this has a lot to do with the new laws introduced by the CSA which state that a teenager costs more to raise than an infant or a toddler. Fair enough. But what of all the "extra" money my DH has paid for his sons through the years and when they were toddlers? Does he get any of that back? Is that taken into consideration? No.

I am so tired of bearing this cross - which is really how it feels. Thank heavens we only have another 18 months to go, not 18 years as some fathers have to look forward to.

I'm so darn upset about it - and there's not a thing we can do if DSS chooses not to see us - which he hasn't for quite a while (with the exception of Father's Day). Something to do with being a teenager, having a girlfriend, etc, etc, which I can understand - but why pay the money if you don't get any benefit at all? Any contact? If his mobile is always switched off or his mother tells us he's "not at home" and she doesn't know where he is. Are we supposed to merely get a warm glow knowing we are doing the right thing by providing financially?

Anyway, to cut a very long story short - we are going to fight it. Wish me luck.

Forgive me for my rave, I'm pretty upset...

Oscar's mum

12-09-2007, 16:21

I wish you all the luck in the world. :hugs:

pegasus

12-09-2007, 16:27

Hey Nickster

yep - understand where you're coming from - the maintenance for my hubby's children has gone up an extra $100 per f/n with the receival of his tax return.

The teenagers costing more isn't actually supposed to come into effect till July 2008 - will check again, but there is no distinction made on the assessment hubby received yesterday. If we added up all of the money paid in maintenance over the last 11years, I'm pretty sure we'd find that according to the research, my hubby's paid 100% of what it costs to raise a child to 18. We too now see the children when they choose or when their mother wants a babysitter. (They have sport, friends and one has a part time job, so it's a lot less than it used to be and nothing to do with hubby not wanting to see the kids)

Sorry to say - the only sympathy you'll get here will be from some of the 8% of families where there are children to a relationship where one parent pays maintenance already for other children.

Maybe you might want to check out shorty's thread (http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=117977).

It highlights that in some circles there's not much sympathy for the parents that are paying the maintenance. Or for their new families

Nickster

12-09-2007, 16:58

It would seem that the increase has more to do with DH's income going up than the law then. Sorry about that. Just checked my facts with him then. So it would seem we're due for another rise next year then.

Pegasus, thanks for the link to that thread, but some of the opinions there are pretty much what I've come to expect.

Just because the details may not suit some members or their agendas, doesn't mean I don't feel the pain of my situation, or that I am not entitled to express it. :)

At the end of the day, budgeting for an extra $300 less in a monthly pay is hard work, and I don't know how it's going to be done at this stage.

On those grounds alone, I defy anyone to not feel some sort of sympathy.

pegasus

12-09-2007, 17:08

Hey - it's okay - I understand

As I said - finding an extra $100 f/n isn't going to be magic for us - fully with you sympathy wise. What some people don't realise is that you don't get the extra amount of the $100 in the pay that amount is calculated before tax.

Then there was the time that my hubby took a cut of $20k a year so he could move closer to the children, and the assessment wasn't changed for 4months and was equal to about $1500 in over payments, but CS said it would be too unfair to decrease the payments the ex was getting at the time.

She welcomes any pay rise she gets and I highly doubt my hubby would be in the same level of job if he was still with her. When he was with her, he was working 2 jobs - one in a laudromat and one in a kebab shop. She is abusive and violent and oppressive.

If we knew the children were reaping the benefits of hubby's pay rises, it wouldn't be an issue, however, that doesn't seem likely, when the children were having some of their belongings hocked 3years ago when we were made aware of a few things and as recently as a month ago and the maintenance has gone up every year since we moved back to Perth.

Sympathy and :hugs: here:yes:

lukaelmo

12-09-2007, 17:15

Hey, I am not in this situation, nor do I know much about it, but I just wanted to say that I am sympathetic to your predicament.

It must be very upsetting and frustrating to know that you have always done the right thing, and by doing so are hard done by.

mythreelittlemonkeys

12-09-2007, 17:19

We are definitely amongst the minority...and as Pegasus said our point of view or situations receive little sympathy...
We are actually in process of another COA as DH has started a company which will be a fantastic opportunity for him, for all of the family including all the children. However for a couple of years it will mean a salary sacrafice on his behalf. In the future we will be able to provide alot more for the children and my DH will be able to work around Perth alot more and be much more available to spend time with them.
We had a call from CSA the other day to say that they basically dont believe it is a legit company...and that because he earnt more than his current Assessment is set at for 3 years, that this will also count against him. When the Senior Case officer spoke to my DH last year when the assessment was made, he told my husband to get a letter stating any additional income earnt this year was due to my husband asking for a promotion and payrise to support our newborn DD. We also used nearly all this extra money to set up the company. Now I have been told that this extra money will be assessed and it is only a reason for resident children not biological ?!?!?
If we lose this COA the cut is we now find out that DH will be assessed on this years tax return, the original assessment will not stand. They also are going to take into account my earnings as a director/secretary/bookeeper/HSEofficer etc etc of the company, to our detriment. But not may I add the income the other party receives from her partner *substantial* or his earnings. SUCKS!
We have only been trading 2 months, but were told to do this COA by them...now sounds as if we are going to get shafted...it sounds as if they are going to basically assess us on the company's income as at the moment DH & I only employees, until later this year or next when we buy machinery and employ someone to run it...I asked if we withdraw and get assessed next Dec at end of current assesment what will happen and they basically siad they could refuse to recognise Dh's actual earnings and pull the company earnings in again...so basically being penalised either way.

Sorry totally gone off your OP - naughty me!...but just wanted to extend an arm of sympathy and let you know there are some of us out there who too feel the system in their opinion is not quite right. :hugs:

BreakfastatTiffanys

12-09-2007, 17:24

I just wanted to send some :hugs: to all the lovely ladies living in blended families.

It is so hard to be a mum, let alone a stepmum.

I take my hat off to all of you.:thumbsup:

KapowSchazam

12-09-2007, 17:25

:wave: Nickster!!!

I agree and disagree with some things from your OP.

Firstly, I agree that it's hard simply to find the extra money when there is a pay increase from the previous financial year. The only thing I can recommend is that whenever DH gets a payrise, maybe check the CSA website straight away to see how it will affect te maintenance he has to pay, at least that way you will have the maximum amount of notice of the new payment as possible. It's prob even more than an interest rate rise, it is a lot, and yes, harder cos it's taken frm gross wages.

But, on the other hand, I disagree with your comment on paying to basically see the child. He helped make the child, so regardless of 'seeing' the child, he should help with the cost of raising him. Child support is not designed to be a 'viewing fee' as such, but to support the child's upbringing. While some ex's may waste the money, or not spend much of it on the child, I believe the vast majority spend the money wisely.

But all in all, I understand where you're coming from and how it hurts - you emotionally and your family financially. But, if you were to split with your DH, you would expect him to help raise your DD financially as well. It's only fair. The system is never going to be 100% because some people, on both sides are always going to do the wrong thing. But as of next July, it will be more fair. :hugs:

KapowSchazam

12-09-2007, 17:31

:hugs: mytillieroo that sounds very stressful. Hope it works out properly.

Nickster

12-09-2007, 18:55

:hugs: mytillieroo. That sounds dreadful...hope things improve for you.

Lil B & Mumma, I think you may have taken what I said the wrong way. We completely understand child support is not a "viewing fee", and never would I even begin to think of it in those terms. That's a foreign concept to me. It's just sad when the "ex" constantly puts obstacles in DH's way when he wants to see his son. He only wants to be a father. And that is his right, legally and morally, as much as it is her right to claim his hard-earned money in child support.

Without going into details (although I will happily inform you person-to-person), she is a welfare cheat and I find that disgusting.:thumbsdown: It just adds insult to injury.

draught

12-09-2007, 19:10

Nickster - not in your situation but having observed enough of my friends who are trying to make blended families work you can have my very rare allotment of cyber hugs :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

talia11

12-09-2007, 19:20

Nickster - I feel for you completely - we are in the same situation (but dont have a child of our own yet) - I said it in the other post and I will say it here - you have every right to feel **** about it - CSA has no consideration for payers whatsoever....It is a bad system - especially for people like yourselves who have always done the right thing and pay on time plus extras and get nothing back.

and although I understand what you are saying Lil B & Mumma, unless you have been in a situation where you are forking out money to the mother and you KNOW for a fact the child is going without things - then to top it off you never get to see the child, you simply can't comprehend what an injustice thats feels like.
Yeah its all good and well to sit back and say 'well he made the child, he has a responsiblity to pay for it' - well I just consider that to be an ignorant way of thinking (and I am not saying that about you specifically - just in a general way) beacuse it is about the bigger picture of the child having the love of both parents, not just one.

Kassiasmum

12-09-2007, 20:07

[QUOTE=mytillieroo;1897809] They also are going to take into account my earnings as a director/secretary/bookeeper/HSEofficer etc etc of the company, to our detriment. QUOTE]

DO NOT give them your details, they are not legally allowed to take it in to consideration. If they are asking for your details, ask them to put it in writing and to state for what reasons they want it. They will try to bully you into giving it to them but don't do it.
I have also sent you a PM.

mythreelittlemonkeys

12-09-2007, 20:33

Oh ****...well they asked us and I just told them what I did...cos they were adamant they needed to know. They will be able to work out my wage from the profit and loss and balance sheet...as they will take my DH's salary off the wages and salary and work that out. God I had no idea they didnt have to know...Bit cheeky!
:shame:

tickle

12-09-2007, 20:55

As you probably know I have no real advice for you. I hope things go well for you guys and things start looking up soon. :hugs:

rynosmum

13-09-2007, 05:14

I don't have any advice for you either Nic but can imagine that trying to 'find' an extra $300 per month wouldn't be an easy task.

I hope you can find some sense in it all - although that may not be an easy task either.
:hugs:

zenifa

13-09-2007, 05:59

I'm not in this situation and have no real advice, but just wanted to send you :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

Nickster

13-09-2007, 17:12

Update on the situation - DH rang CSA and told them the estimate was incorrect, because it was based not only upon his salary, but a couple of bonuses he received during the year (which he will most likely not receive this year).....they have cut back the estimate to $50 less per month than what we are currently paying.

However, all it will take is for the "ex" to disagree with this estimate (for whatever reason), and we will most likely have to go to the AAT (Administrative Appeals Tribunal) to sort it out.

No doubt she has received the letter and is rubbing her hands together with anticipation over the extra money and will be most put out that she won't get it....so I'm sure she'll be disagreeing with the new (and correct) estimate.

I've been thinking about it, and no matter how upsetting it is, it's just so terrific that I can come here and receive genuine support from the other wonderful ladies here - whether you've posted or just PM'd me, and I would like to thank each and every one of you. Even if it's just a kind word, it means a lot to me.

Thank you.

KapowSchazam

13-09-2007, 17:21

It's just sad when the "ex" constantly puts obstacles in DH's way when he wants to see his son. He only wants to be a father. And that is his right, legally and morally

I agree completly. Thanks for clearing your meaning up for me :thumbsup:

As much as I don't want to have anything to do with my XDH, I do it for my daughter. I want her to grow up knowing her dad, be it good or bad, she has the right to know him, as does he have that same right.

People who cheat the system (either side) are scum IMO and I really wish that the people around them would dob them in, because it only makes it harder for everyone else who's doing the correct thing.

I'm very happy to hear that CSA have corrected the estimate, and I hope that the ex doesn't get too greedy trying to have it reversed, though from the sounds of it, I think you're preparing yourself for that very outcome. :hugs:

unless you have been in a situation where you are forking out money to the mother and you KNOW for a fact the child is going without things

I agree. I have never been in that situation, I may well find myself there in the years to come, when I find the REAL right man for me...who knows, I only hope that the system manages to be more fair - on everyone. The children should be the main priority IMO, be they from the previous or current relationship.

KapowSchazam

13-09-2007, 17:25

God I had no idea they didnt have to know...Bit cheeky!

If they have no right to know, then surely they can't take it into account??? If they do, it seems really unfair that they don't take into account the earnings of the receiving parent's partner, but they do with the paying parents partner?!?! Hopefully that will change next July!!! :shame:

Kassiasmum

13-09-2007, 19:45

Elfin

13-09-2007, 19:47

Oh Nic just saw this, so sorry that you and your DH have to go through this drama. You are both such good decent people. Just want to send my best wishes:hugs:

Nickster

13-09-2007, 19:52

Thanks Elfin.

(BTW, are there 2 separate threads occurring here or am I imagining things?:confused: :rolleyes: )

poshBecks

13-09-2007, 19:53

NIc, I am very sorry that you are going through this. I have no advice, just cuddles.... :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

KapowSchazam

14-09-2007, 18:46

Just because they have no right, doesn't stop them from asking, but ask them to put it in writing and you won't get it. They rely on people not knowing their rights in this regard. Never give them any information about the partner, whether you are a payee or payer.

But why do they even use it??? Do they take into account the income of partners for the receiving parent? I don't know, I'm all new to this myself :o

pegasus

14-09-2007, 19:13

I think they asked mytillieroo as in her case they're trying to set up a business and want to make sure there isn't any money hidden (it still isn't right as they have no right to know how much she receives).

As for the receiving parent - they'll never check how much your partner earns (if you repartner), and you're allowed to (currently) earn up to $42000 before it affects how much CS you receive. From July next year that amount goes down, but is brought into line with what the payer is allowed to earn before CS is taken out of his wage.

When we had a reassessment done (when I had our DS) we had to fill in how much I used of the money for things like hair, entertainment etc. (We only said $100 a month for entertainment and less for hair etc). The payee didn't specify anything - we were told we weren't allowed to put those costs above the CSA payments - we weren't doing that - we were just trying to be honest.

In future - we'll just leave any of those sections blank - if it's not allowed to be considered to have any amount for entertainmnet or anything then why bother saying it.

DustyPeach

23-10-2007, 19:45

Being a single mum that has not repartnerd and no intention of doing so. The comment on paying and not getting anything for it is frustrating. I have never not provided my children for their visitation with their dad and he NEVER pays his maintenance on time. NEVER.

To csa the relationship with him is far more important that weather or not he pays. In the mean time we are docked for the amount of ftb we are entitled to no matter what.

I have been told in court that either parent not paying child support is no reason to not provide them for contact. The fact that the child does not choose to see you should be enough for you to realise that the kid has his own life. When he is ready he will contact you himself.

Try and settle down a bit focus more of the energy you are putting into hating SDS's mum into your own kids. Might have cost her 5k the last time you went to court but how much more will it cost you to take her back there again. Keeping in mind your complaining about having to pay extra $$ in maintenance. I am confident your family as a whole could use the time and finances more productivley.

mymunchkinamelia

24-10-2007, 09:18

I believe the csa has no clue!! we have had numerous dramas with them, for instance, my DH has 3 kids, for 4 years the 2 oldest kids lived with him and the youngest with his ex, DH was a single dad on his own raising his kids and paid child support to his ex for his youngest, she never had to pay a cent, even tho she is partnered and has been since they split and he earns over $90000 a year!! As soon we got together his amount of child support went up because they took into account my earnings also, which i thought to be really unfair!

Now all 3 kids live with us and she still doesn't have to pay anything because they say she doesn't earn anything, only her partner does! how is that right, they can hit my DH up for child support and go off my earnings but they won't go off her partners earnings, we do not earn anywhere near $90000 a year and yet we still have to raise her 3 kids, she also owes DH over $700 because she was still getting child support after the youngest moved in with us, and of course we haven't seen that money!

The whole system is ridiculous, i totally sympathise wih anyone who has to deal with them:hugs:

DivinelySophistimicated

24-10-2007, 09:29

I to have CSA problems....I have split with DD dad but am now re-partnered.

J does not pay his child support when he is supposed to and in the past had to have his wages garnishered (sp?). At the moment "he is not working" and only pays 12 a f/n. But i have reason to believe he is working as he told me so...CSA have not chased this up.

My mum pays child support for my brother, now heres the rigged part. My brothers dad does the same thing as my partner in IT and My partner earn 130k a year so were guessing he would earn that or more....Nope he declares his earnings at 40k a year. He also owns 3 sports cars and 2 houses. He transfered everything into his new wifes name and then docked his pay another 10k so they took mums tax return...

As for parents buying things for the kids and this not being taken into consideration with child support payments then do this...When you buy something, fax the reciept into CSA and they will mark it as a non-agency payment. My ex does this and it always gets taken off what he owes me the next month.

vikki a

24-10-2007, 09:44

I can toally understand where you are coming from..
My DH is the only one at work who does'nt want a pay rise, because we can't afford it....With what i would loose and what tax and CSA would take we would end up beening worse off. It suxs big time..
And my X some how gets away with paying every now and then, yet thier right on top of us all the time. And they wont take into consideration (sp) my eldest 2 as denpendants(sp)..WTF thier just as dependant on DH working and bringing in the money as my younger two.. You just can;t win with them....:hair: :hair: :banghead: :banghead:

kewlchicmum

24-10-2007, 15:44

Heya all I just wanted to jump on and say my DH does 2 and 2 and we have a private agreement with the x well its really her agreement she tells us any ways they have a 5 year old and she is saying that it costs her $1500 a month to raise her which is bull and she is asking for more money from us we have a DS who is not 8 half months and x has just had another child to her husband they now have 2 together. I feel she wants more money cause she just had another baby she does to uni and just started working causal and her DH does 3 to 4 nights a week as a night guard. What a joke and you know what we have to keep her happy and give her more money cause she could go for full amount tho CSA and that would hurt us as she already had them on us she told my DH that she does not care about me or our DS she is just worried about her and her DD not very nice. Some times I wonder if its good my DH working away and earning so much money cause she gets a fair chunk out of it. I am going to go back to work causal to try and make up for some of the money she is now getting from us. But gee its hard no one seems to care about us meaning DH DS and me not even CSA. I told DH that I have had enough of her mind games and said to him to pay full amount then that way she can not play many more mind games and hold any thing over our heads but he wants to keep trying to pay her and there private agreement for as long as he can.........I HAVE JUST HAD ENOUGH:banghead: ENOUGH:banghead:

lilblakduk

24-10-2007, 15:54

...When you buy something, fax the reciept into CSA and they will mark it as a non-agency payment. My ex does this and it always gets taken off what he owes me the next month.

Really? What kind of items does he do that for?

I dont understand CSA at all?! I dont get how it is based on nights and not actual time with the child?!

we pay csa, however when he is with his mother during the week he is in daycare from 6.30am - 4/5pm then to bed at 6/7pm? Go figure? and she doesnt want to have him on the weekend as that is her time?

Sorry if i sound a bit rude but i just dont get it?