Flat nippled and cant breastfeed?

[JorBai]

Hello,

My son is now 3 months old and has been ff since 3 weeks old and thriving on it. I had great difficulty bf him due to flat nipples and gave up at 3 weeks because my milk supply was slowing down because I was only expressing. Has anyone else had this problem and if so how did you deal with it and any suggestions to prepare nipples next time?

Although i am very happy ff I would like to try bf next time and would love some advice to help next time!

Thanks,

Leanne

[xkwzit]

Hi Leeanne
I don't know how severe your problem is, but I have (or HAD) flat nipples too :D . I didn't think I'd needed to worry, because I was told if they can stand erect (sorry if TMI) they would be OK.

I did have trouble, we had to express all DD1's feeds for about the first 6 weeks, by which stage her attachment had got steadily worse. We had a miracle moment when she latched on while I was wearing a nipple sheild (maybe nipple / bottle confusion?). We had another lightbulb moment when I weaned her off nipple sheilds. We were finally BF with some degree of normalcy by 12 - 13 weeks. We stuck with it (probably due to fortuitous circumstances, rather then my perserverance) but I'm glad we did. I could not have done it without my LC (and a DH who took 6 weeks off work really helped too). Nothing sucks *pardon the pun* more than trying (and failing) to attach a screaming baby, having to prepare an EBM feed and THEN having to express all on your own with no other help. When ARE you supposed to sleep?

I hope that someone who knows a bit more drops by, I don't really know what preparation before birth would have helped. Maybe the ABA is a good place to start, followed up by an LC when your closer to the time (even after baby is born).

Hope it goes well for you

[Ana Gram]

I lasted 6 weeks with expressing after taking her off the breast as soon as I was out of hospital (4 days). One of the nurses took one look at me and told me that I would have trouble breastfeeding, yeah thanks!!

I recall there being a product to help with flat nipples, something like a nipple shield. Can anyone else clarify this?

[xkwzit]

Hi Chellegoth
I've also heard a similar thing, but have no idea "how" you would use one before birth. Just put them on? I have no idea and I hope someone else can help.

Cheers

[Ana Gram]

i don't think there is really anything that can be done about flat nipples, I got told that the only way I would be able to breast feed was using a nipple shield

[Lil X-men]

I had this prob too and subsquently ended up with acute Masitis for the entire five weeks I fed bubs (5 weeks of Antibiotics with no recovery). I never slept as I was expressing when I wasnt feeding to try and clear the infection.
I also used nipple sheilds as my nipples where bleeding, it was a complete nightmare and I still get the shivers when I think of how sick I was and how painful it was to feed.
I dont know about you but next time I am willing to pay a Lactation consultant to help me out as I couldn't go through that again, it was to be honest worse than the pain of birth!
I feel so peeved that I have these stupid boobs that I cant feed my son with grr.
I have nice big breasts I thought I'd be a natural but noooo!
I was told not to use the sheild long term though for some reason I'm can't remember why though

[Goosie22]

The problem with people saying you have Flat nipples is that it really is not the reason you have difficulty attaching.

Its called Breastfeeding not nipple feeding. So having a good mouthful of the breast is what is needed(your milk ducts are back near the outer edge of your areola), Flat nipples/inverted nipples are only a problem if poor attachment is started and continued(cause trauma and encourage poor/lazy attachment by baby). The position you hold your baby and the way you present your breast to the baby is important as you need to get the nipple area over the tounge to prevent trauma to the nipple and allow the baby to compress the breast tissue with the gums.
Getting a good LC prior to starting your feeding relationship is essential, It would be perfect if you found one at the hospital you gave birth at, so they could help suppervise your first feeds.
G:)


This link talks about breastshells and other problems related to inverted/flat nipples.
http://www.breastfeed-essentials.com/invertednipples.html

[Ana Gram]

Nope, I had a lacation consultant watching every feed and was told there was no problem with attatchment. I always found a major problem with the nurses claiming I wasn't trying hard enough to breastfeed. When every feed causes excruciating pain and bleeding the last thing you want to hear is "your doing it wrong".

After my experience, on the off chance that I ever had another child, I would not go through that again! I would be telling the nurses where they could stick it and straight to the bottle!

[♥Heaven Sent♥]

maybee you could stretch your nipples in the shower and i was told that expressing brings your nipples out more.
good luck

[JorBai]

Thank you all for your feedback. Its good to know I am not the only one with this problem.

My midwife supervised all feeds and also said positioning was fine. She referred me to a very good lactation consultant at the hospital who I was visiting regularly in the first few weeks. The lactation consultant told me not to stress myself out with it and if it got to much then to try the bottle.

I will try again next time and use nipple shields but I guess if its not meant to be then it wont happen.

Thanks again for the great advice!

Leanne

[Mum2Lucas]

You can buy things for flat nipples to draw them out. I'm not too sure of the brand but you can get them from kmart, target and that in the baby section. They are just little suction thingys and it draws them out and then apparently they stay out.

[Ky]

I have very flat nipples and have not been able to breastfeed either of my kids.

I expressed for the first 6 weeks with both of them and then went to formula feeding ... at least I felt like I had given them the best start possible.

It is not just Mum's nipples that can effect feeding. I know that a lot of Mum's with flat nipple manage to feed, but they obviously had bubs that were going to physically be able to manage it.

My dd has a very high hard palate and was unable to press my breast/nipple far enough up with enough stimulation to get the breastmilk out for her. My ds is severely tongue-tied and it was never picked until he was nearly 18 months old! I didn't notice it as I am severely tongue-tied too and never knew it, so I thought his was normal!

All this considered ... if anyone can give me some more advice (saw lactation consultants each time) on how to prepare my nipples etc for next time (when it happens!) I would really appreciate it as I would dearly love to breastfeed.

[JorBai]

Thanks Kyra, its good to know I am not the only one with this problem! Lets hope next bubs we both have more luck with breastfeeding!

Your children are just gorgeous!

Leanne

[leab]

I have severly inverted nipples. When you squeeze the breast the areola sucks inwards.
I wish to god I had done something before I had my little girl to draw them out permanantly.
I actually spoke to a LC at my hospital before I had her and she said either the pregnacy itself or the baby would draw the nipple out.
SHE WAS WRONG!!

My girl is now 4mo old and FF since week 2. She would latch-on but pull away after a few sucks, screaming for food:(

I used a breastpump to draw the nipple out but it doesn't stay out.
They also became cracked and bleeding and very sore becuase the adhesions stopping the nipple from protruding were torn.
I then got mastitis from clogged ducts.
After that I FF.

I also tried a nipple shield which works temporarily for latching on but I'm not sure the transfer of milk is that good.

I also tried a nipple suction thingy, which works like a breastpump. However I really should have used it while preg. everyday to draw the nipple out perm.

So the BF advocates can go and !#$@#$ themselves!

Beleive it or not I still want To BF with the next one. I am going to use the nipple suction thing and breastshields. I'm hopeful.

Leanne

[xkwzit]

Hi Leanne

I'm sure that you can do it, you've just got to get the right help and that's the hardest thing to find sometimes.

One tip I have for you is that nipple sheilds can be used with the top section cut out. This is what my LC did when it looked like I was going to have to use them for a few weeks. She carefully snipped between the four holes at the tip to make one large hole. Because its right at the top, baby can't feel it and it lessens any restriction of the flow through the nipple shield. However, I've also heard of women BF through nipple sheilds (w/o the LC modification) for 4 months plus with seemingly no problems.

Goosie posted a link earlier in this thread on inverted nipples and BF. Have you found that, is it helpful?

[Ana Gram]

I have actually noticed in another thread that quite a few of us with large breasts and flat nipples have had great difficulty breast feeding

[Bestfeedingmom]

ok read a few this is long but shooting for my 2 cents. I have flat nipples myself and my DD had very little trouble infact my first one went home from hopsital and we did not discover this tell she was 2 weeks being exclusivly BF and they were shocked I could feed her but other then being sore from proper latch not being their nothing really stood in the way. I did use a nipple shield your lactation can give you one and how to attach it. Its much easier then screwing on a bottle nipple really I promise. You warm it up with warm water if you can and then just adhere it to the breast let baby suck and it pulls out the nipple. If you have inverted nipples it makes no diffrence other then just allowing for proper latch on. I bf mine tell preschool so I am sure one could manage with pereverence. I also know too that I am not currently using one yet I have managed to get my 1 and half year old adopted child on as the more you nurse your nipples eventualy come out more. After nursing two kids and tandem their flat still to all standards but not as bad. Nipple shields and pumping were my friends. Pumping does help too.

[leab]

So, so far it looks like a breastpump and a nipple shield is the way to go
If you don't use a breastpump you could use the nipple puller by pigeon.

[Lunar]

Hi I have flat nipples too and couldn't BF DD1 because of this and she had no sucking reflex and could hardly take a bottle either. This time around I found the AVENT NIPLETTE. You use it preferably befroe you fall pregnant to draw out the nipple. It looks like a thimble with a little piece of tubing coming out of the bottom you use a syringe to suck the air out of it and draw the nipple into the thimble like cup. It say to wear it as much as possible during the day for around 3 wks or until the nipple doesn't retract back. You can use it during pregnancy but only in the first 6 months. I used it but did find this product when I was about 5 months or so, but during the time I used it it DID make a difference. I have also been using an electric breast pump for about 5 min each side every couple days to draw out the nipples and that has worked too. My nipples are still small and don't come out that much but I know that at least it is something that the baby will be able to latch on to.
I also know that nipple sheilds can help and know of others that feed with them from day one nearly and are still feeding months and months down the track with aNd without sheilds and have had no problems with supply. Check out the ABA wesite they have lots of info on there and you can ask other mums who are BF with flat or inverted nipples, that's where I got all my encouragement from. I am now determined that if someone else can do it then so can I!

I am now 9 days away from my EDD and I have in my head "I'm breastfeeding this time no matter what!" I know it is going to be hard work for the first few weeks or months but I know that others have done it and I know that I am going to be successful too!:) Be positive! And if it doesn't wo9rk after I have done everthing possible known to me and professionals I seek out then it is ok to bottle feed with EBM or FF. At least I can say that I did my best then.:rolleyes:
What more can you do?

Good luck!

[the_queen]

Off-topic for a bit......
I haven't contributed to this thread yet because I never had this specific problem, but I'm interested in reading other mum's experiences with problematic breastfeeding. I think the very fact that we try our best to breastfeed proves that we are fantastic mummy's. I had to formula feed Vally from 16 weeks old. I plan on breastfeeding this new bubba. I consider myself a BF advocate.
Therefore, THIS:
So the BF advocates can go and !#$@#$ themselves!
I find EXTREMELY offensive!!! :mad: If it wasn't for BF advocates, mothers with flat/inverted nipples would be told "don't even bother trying to breastfeed"!!! IMO, a person will experience guilt when they know deep inside themselves that they have something to feel guilty about. I was forced to stop breastfeeding, but (after counselling) I have come to realise that I do not feel guilty about it - because I tried everything to continue BFing! I feel grief because it didn't work out the way I'd planned.

I think we have to allow ourselves to grieve the loss of a breastfeeding relationship, in order to move past the pain. Up until about a year ago, any mention or sight of breastfeeding would have my heart breaking and tears welling up in my eyes. Now, because I've had counselling about it, I am at peace with the issue.


Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread, just wanted to point out how OFFENSIVE leab's comment was:mad: .

[Goosie22]

HI The_Queen,
I agree that it was offensive and unnessesary, people who have that type of attitude wonder why nobody wants help them when they need it:rolleyes: . I also have to commend you on your efforts to help others achieve what you were denied and I totolly agree that it is unresolved grief not guilt that drives these types of comments. Don't let it get you down.

And to Emmysmum you can do it "Don't try to Breastfeed, Decide to Breastfeed" one of my faviourte breastfeeding sayings. My thoughts are with you in your efforts and anything I can do to help just let me know:)

[Ana Gram]

Actually I understand where she is coming from completely. Perhaps she is just sick to death of the "you're just not trying hard enough" and "if you really wanted to you would" attitudes that quite a few breast feeding advocates have. Have you ever considered that those types of attitudes and the subsequent comments are offensive to those of us who could not successfuly breastfeed?

[Tea Lady]

As a BF advocate who wasn't offended by leanne's post, I just assumed she was feeling very upset and frustrated by the fact that it was incredibly difficult for her and that maybe ppl didn't give her the sympathy or understanding she needed.

I often feel that sympathy and understanding are a bit lacking (most probably unintentionally) when people are trying to emphasise that bf is achievable - it feels more like you're being told you don't have a problem (when you sure as anything know you do!) and that doesn't exactly spur you on!! I was fortunate to have a very kind and understanding LC and it was her appreciation of the fact that I was suffering really badly that made me keep on more than her actual advice. I realise I'm interpreting Leanne's comments through my own experience, but that was my take on it.:)

[Lunar]

Thanks Goosie.

I would also like to add that in my thought are also things like....

What do you think they did in the days when formula sisn't exist and the only way to feed your baby was BF..? If they did it back then with flat and inverted nipples then we can do it now surely...?

I know that it will be difficult for us flatties but if you arm yourself with as much info and support as you possibly can then you have a better chance.

When I had DD1 I thought I had 'normal' boobs/nipples, and didn't think I would have much of a problem. Until she was born and I was told my nipples were flat and I wouldn't be able to feed her. I tried for 3 days and the nurses would tug at my nipples (OUCH!) and latch her on then walk away, b4 they could make it out the door she was off. They then TOLD me to give up, that it was a waste of time and to put her on the bottle. I know now that to BF her would have been impossible but that was because of her disabilty combined with my nipples. I know now that I have every chance of BF this baby.... when she decides to make her entrance into this world......hurry up little one!....

I do highly recomment the ABA website, there were plenty of mums who helped me see that BF is possible for flatties and they do it EVERYDAY! Just don't give up, they said to me, feed and feed and it will get better. Some even said that their nipples are now 'normal' outies from perservering with BF.

[Ana Gram]

What do you think they did in the days when formula sisn't exist and the only way to feed your baby was BF..? If they did it back then with flat and inverted nipples then we can do it now surely...?

I know that it will be difficult for us flatties but if you arm yourself with as much info and support as you possibly can then you have a better chance.




Infant formula was invented in response to a high infant mortality rate. Problems with breastfeeding is hardly a modern issue.

I had as much information I could get my hands on, midwives, lacation consultants and I could not successfully breastfeed. I think what a lot of people have to realise is, some woman cannot breastfeed.

[leab]

Sorry bad choice of words:(
I meant those BF advocates who believe that everyone can BF no matter what and that I wasn't trying hard enough.
Becuase really, I guess I'm a BF advocate myself! I am afterall trying to solve my prob so I can BF bubba #2 (and I 'm not even preg. yet!)

So I'm sorry if I offended those who do understand and sympathise with my probs. But to those who can't beleive that my probs and lack of support and info. prevented me from BF then..................

I even pulled my nipple puller out today again hopeful.............

That Avent nipplelette looks good too:)

Leanne

[Goosie22]

No worries, forget it:D



By leab
my probs and lack of support and info. prevented me from BF then


"Prevented" is such a better choice of words than can't, all of the problems ect mount up and lead you to a place where you can't see any other choice and it just becomes to much work when you wern't prepared for such a crappy ride especially when your under so much scrutiny.

Please accept my appologies if I came off as one who didn't believe your problems led to your choice to not breastfeed.

G:)

[LouLou]

Hi leanne,
I suffer from one inverted and one flat nipple - and struggled to find anyone else who even knew anything about it during my first pregnancy. I discovered medela Softshells which i wore daily during my pregnancy for a couple of hours. They worked well and drew my nipples out more and more throughout the pregnancy. Unfortunately my son was born 5 weeks premmie and had a major jaundice issue which left him rather slack on the feeding side so i ended up expressing for a while and was able to get him to attach to the flat nipple side, but the inverted side was hopeless (for me anyway).
So my next pregnancy i thought I get a LC and be prepared, but I thought i would not need to wear the shields as my nipples had "been there done that before" (Big mistake on my part) as my daughter arrived and my nipples were not ready.
Anyway I thought you should know that the softshells worked really well, though i couldn't find anyone who stocked them, but I just got my local chemist to order them in for me. The medela website for overseas is
http://www.medela.com/NewFiles/breastcare.html#softshells,
There is plenty of info on various websites regarding them
best of luck next time round.

[Tea Lady]

HOORAY for sensible women resolving their misunderstandings like the mature adults they are!! Onya ladies :D

[leab]

Hi Louise

So you were never able to BF rom the inverted nipple?

Leanne

[LouLou]

Leanne,
No I was not but I am not sure if it was the fact that it was on my right side and I was very comfortable feeding from my left breast. I definately found it harder feeding on the right side for positioning and the fact that my right nipple was inverted more than my flat one on the left I just couldn;t get the hang of it.
sorry i can't be more help but I was able to express out of my right one no worries at all.
Good Luck

[leab]

Thanks Lou, I tried electric pump expressing when my milk came in and after 2 days of expressing they cracked and started bleeding:(

To others, as you can see the cracking and bleeding was not caused by incorrect latching but tearing of the adhesions that cause them to be inverted.
Even today I used my nipple puller and after having on about 30 mins twice, my nipple started to bleed:(

I don't know what to do

Leanne

[Goosie22]

maybe the nippelettes suction is too server? Have you read about the breastshell? My sister inlaw had real sucess with one after not feeding her two previous babies(her nipples used to look like belly buttons) I posted a link which included it earlier on in this thread. You sound like you have really intrenched inversions there and maybe its just something that you have to get through and persist with?

[LouLou]

Leanne,
it sounds a lot similar to what i went through when my daughter Gemma was born, I had almost instant bleeding on the first day and my boobs were really itchy, I felt engorged and it was painful. I could not use an electric or hand held pump and my LC was unsure what was the problem, both my GP and LC thought I has thrush in my nipples due to them being flat and inverted.
I stopped feeding or expressing for initally one day at a time but every time I tried to either feed her or express the bleeding would continue. I stopped for 3 days - gave my daughter formula and gave by nipples and breasts time to heal. In doing so though I became more engorged and was constantly in pain. After 3 days (and using an oral thrush treatment my GP prescribed) I was able to get Gemma to latch on for 2 feeds and express out of one breast without bleeding.
However the end result did not result in ongoing breast feeding and I opted out for my sanity after 5 weeks.
I do need to say that for me my nipples are now more inverted than they were beofre any pregnancies and it was not a pleasant experience.
I hope it's a better situation for you.

[JorBai]

WOW! What an over whelming response!

Thank you all for your fantastic suggestions and also support. I always thought I would just be able to breastfeed and that it just come naturally. Next baby I will know to prepare and also have more confidence. I think being a first time Mum is hard enough and trouble with feeding just stresses you out.

I look forward to hearing from others if they were succcessful with breast feeding 2nd bubs.

Again a huge thanks for your great advice and support!

Leanne ( Baileys Mummy);)

[leab]

Thanks Louise:)
I hope it will be better next time.
So they thought it was thrush? ,mmmm Was the bleeding coming from the cracked skin and also inside the nipple? thats how mine was.

My breasts also became too engorged which ended up in mastitis for the left one.
The thing was, she wasn't even latching on:( No matter how much of the breast she got. She was getting absolutely no palate stimulation whatsoever.

Leanne

[leab]

No worries Leanne:)
We should meet up and compare breast stories:p

I live in Clear Island Waters

Leanne

[Notchalk]

Just adding my story to the pile... ;)

I am a Midwife - had my first baby at home 9 months ago, and planned the whole perfect breastfeeding scenario, because I was and expert, obviously.

It didn't help that my nipples didn't come to the party, or that my son wasn't entirely sure what to do...

I expressed and syringe fed the first 24 hours, and did some finger suck training. (After attempting to BF properly first each feed).

Second 24 hours I used nipple shields which worked wonders and made me feel like I was properly breastfeeding. This helped to bring my nipples out.

Third 24 hours I ditched the nipple shields and just BF. I became lazy with attachment, trying to normalise everything, and did a lay-down feed. It hurt a bit, but I ignored it. After the feed I noticed a pool of milky blood under us, and 1/3 of my nipple *missing*. (My son's first solids ;))

For the next few days breast feeding was *excruciating* But I'm a Midwife, I HAVE TO DO THIS. I did want to, as well, obviously!

After a week I had a severe case of Mastitis from an infection getting into the crack.

9 weeks later and still no improvement, still a raw area of nipple, someone suggested to me that I could have thrush - I treated for this and BINGO! The raw area healed up within 2 days. It took 5 weeks to get rid of the thrush completely, and for the first time, I fed painfree!

I now have nipples, too ;)

You can do it!

Jo

[JorBai]

OMG Jo what an amazing story! Thank you for that information it has given me a huge boost to know that it is possible!:yelclap:

It sounds like u had a hard time but it was worth it in the end!

Again a HUGE thanks for that story, im sure all us flatties will appreciate hearing that!

Leanne :smiliedance:

[Notchalk]

Aww thankyou! I've never been given such cool smileys before!:o

Glad to help.

Jo