View Full Version : Are male and female circumcision the same? YES. Learn why.
MotherNurture
03-09-2007, 04:22
Great link with mouse-over drawings of human embryo development:
Child Physiology: How the body works: Development (http://www.sickkids.ca/childphysiology/cpwp/Genital/genitaldevelopment.htm)
To get started, click on "Genitals".
A Shared Start:
Until the 7th week of development, the genitals of boys and girls look the same.
The "indifferent genitals" have a phallus, labioscrotal swellings, urogenital folds, and a urogenital membrane.
Genital Formation:
Androgens (hormones) from the testes make the genitals look like a boy's.
Without androgens, the indifferent genitals turn into those of a girl.
Move the buttons along the slider bars under each set of genitals to compare male and female genital development.
Shared Parts:
Because they start out the same, boys' and girls' genitals have related parts including:
penis (glans)...clitoris (glans)
scrotum...labia majora
penis around urethra...labia minora
Roll the mouse over the picture to see the names of these other parts.
Note: One of the shared parts is a structure called the "prepuce".
Male prepuce=Foreskin.
Female prepuce=Clitoral hood.
The foreskin protects the glans penis, the clitoral hood protects the glans clitoris.
Thus, the male and female prepuce are analogous structures.
What does this mean?
It means that the most common form of female genital mutilation/cutting, sunna circumcision, which removes the clitoral hood is the same as male foreskin amputation.
What does this mean?
It means that it's illogical support routine infant circumcision as a parental choice if you condemn all forms of FGM.
...
Either genital integrity is a birthright, or it's not. Either parental rights supercede the rights of children to whole, healthy, fully functioning bodies or they don't. This is the crux of the issue. It's what makes circumcision is a human rights issue.
Does culture really justify irreversibly harming non-consenting children? Where should the line be drawn, if not at a practice which, quite literally, skins genitals?
...
Please share your thoughts. :)
Jen
secondtimearound2
03-09-2007, 08:44
I don't believe they are the same thing. Yes they can have similarities.
How many types of Female circ is there being practised?
How many types of male circ are being practised?
What is the statistics for intact men/boys to need a circ for medical/health reasons??
What are the statistics for intact females needing to be circ due to medical/health reasons?
What are the statistics for females having complications due to circ?
What are the statistics for males having complications due to circ?
Whilst there are simularities between both male and female circ. There are many differences too.
I have a girlfriend who has 3 intact boys. The oldest is now 14 and is having problems with retracting his forskin and maybe facing circ. Now how many females are faced with this problem?? I don't know any, but maybe someone else does??
stellarella
03-09-2007, 08:58
I agree entirely. They are the same thing.
I do find it hypocritical to supprt one and not the other. As I have said before the only difference is that one is socially acceptable (by a minority) in Australian/Western society and the other is not.
:thumbsdown:
MotherNurture
03-09-2007, 23:16
How many types of Female circ is there being practised?
Typically, four types.
How many types of male circ are being practised?
I've never seen male circumcision divided into types, however there are certainly different types/degrees.
The amount of skin removed varies by the method and aggressiveness of the practitioner. Just the tip (preputial sphincter/ridged band) may be removed, or circumcision may take up to 50% of the skin on the penis including the frenulum. There's gomco, mogen, plastibell, freehand, ritual circumcision with a shield, and traditional circumcision in the phillipines doesn't remove any tissue, the foreskin is slit and forced to heal inverted. The placement of the scar varies greatly depending on the method and how much 'inner skin' is pulled into the clamp. It can be high/tight, low/loose. We frequently hear parents talk about 'not enough skin' being removed or complaining about their baby 'not looking circumcised' or developing penile adhesions or skin bridges.
What is the statistics for intact men/boys to need a circ for medical/health reasons??
About 1%, but even then there are usually more conservative options/alternatives.
The only absolute indications for male circumcision are frostbite, gangrene, and cancer of the foreskin.
What are the statistics for intact females needing to be circ due to medical/health reasons?
Interestingly, since in most of the world removal of portions of the vulva for medical reasons aren't categorized together as "female circumcision", that question's hard to answer but I'm going to assume that like male circumcision, it's relatively rare.
Some time ago I compiled a list of problems that can negatively impact a woman's labia, which routine amputation could 'prevent'...
Each and every part of the human body is susceptible to problems, regardless of age or gender. No part of the body is "immune", from our tips of our toes to the top of our heads. Bacteria, viruses, fungus, cancer...even our own immune systems can be the culprit.
...
NO LABIA, NO PROBLEM.
[color=#FF6666]No labia=no risk of labial adhesions.
No labia=no risk of smegma or bacteria being 'harbored' in the folds between bathing.
No labia=no risk of labial irritation from candida (yeast) infection.
No labia=no risk of Bartholin's gland cysts of the labia.
No labia=no risk of cyst of the canal of Nuck (processus vaginalis peritonei) of the labia.
No labia=no risk of of mucous (dysontogenetic) cysts of the labia.
No labia=no risk of skene's duct cysts of of the labia.
No labia=no risk of epidermal inclusion cysts of the labia.
No labia=no risk of furunculosis of the labia.
No labia=no risk off varicosities of the labia.
No labia=no risk of lentigo of the labia.
No labia=no risk of nevi of the labia.
No labia=no risk of seborrheic or hyperkeratosis labia.
No labia=no risk of fibroepithelial polyps (acrochordon) of the labia.
No labia=no risk of papillomatosis of the labia.
No labia=no risk of fibroma/fibromyoma of the labia.
No labia=no risk of hidradenoma of the labia.
No labia=no risk of lipoma of the labia.
No labia=no risk of dermatofibroma of the labia.
No labia=no risk of hyper pigmentation of the labia.
No labia=no risk of Vulvodynia affecting the labia. (Less vulva=less vulvar pain.)
No labia=no risk of HSV infection of the labia.
No labia=no risk of Crohn's disease of the labia.
No labia=no risk of Behçet's Disease of the labia.
No labia=no risk of labial tears during intercourse or childbirth.
No labia=no risk of labial swelling after childbirth.
No labia=no risk of the labia 'getting in the way' of the penis and vaginal opening.
No labia=risk of of Vulvar Vestibulitis affecting the labia.
No labia=no risk of Condyloma Acuminata of the labia.
No labia=no risk of Herpes lesions of the labia.
No labia=no risk of Syphilis sores on the labia.
No labia=no risk of primary irritant dermatitis of the labia.
No labia=no risk of allergic dermatitis of the labia.
No labia=no risk of seborrheic dermatitis of the labia.
No labia=no risk of psoriasis of the labia.
No labia=no risk of hidradenitis suppurativa of the labia.
No labia=no risk of labial Intertrigo.
No labia=no risk of excoriation of the labia.
No labia=no risk of of Paget's Disease of the labia. (may require vulvectomy)
No labia=no risk of fissuring of the labia.
No labia=no risk of Lichen Sclerosus of the labia.
No labia=no risk of Lichen Planus of the labia.
No labia=no risk of eczema of the labia.
No labia=no risk of Squamous Cell Hyperplasia of the labia.
No labia=no risk of Vulvar Intraepithelial Neoplasm affecting the labia.
No labia=no risk of Vulvar Neoplasm-Melanoma affecting the labia.
No labia=no risk of basal cell carcinoma of the labia.
No labia=no risk of verrucous carcinoma of the labia.
No labia=no risk of sarcomas of the labia.
No labia= no risk of adenocarcinoma of the labia.
No labia=no risk of labial pruritus.
No labia=no risk of HIV entering through tears, abrasion, or sores on the labia.
What are the statistics for females having complications due to circ?
I haven't seen an actual percentage on that. I think it would be hard to come up with because most female circumcisions are performed outside of a medical environment; however, it's extremely widespread. I've read that each year 2-3 million girls are at risk.
The push seems to be a combination of educating communities and banning/criminalization rather than further developing and clinicalizing procedures to make them safer and more consistent in outcome.
However, I did come across some pictures of female circumcision clamps some time ago intended to simplify the process/reduce bleeding/give a cleaner/more consistent result; they looked just as medival as what's currently used on little boys.
Again, though, most civilized folks agree the solution isn't to validate female circumcision by increasing safety and efficiency, because it's a human right's issue and dang it, little girls deserve to keep all of their sensitive, sexually functional bits.
What are the statistics for males having complications due to circ?
1% require recircumcision or revision.
10% develop meatal stenosis.
71% develop penile adhesions.
...and then there's the immediate surgical complications like excessive bleeding, infection, and death.
...and there's the recent study (http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2006.06685.x) that *actually measured sensitivity of the foreskin* that concluded "Circumcision ablates the most sensitive parts of the penis.". I'd say that's a significant complication.
Whilst there are simularities between both male and female circ. There are many differences too.
Certainly. The fact remains though that the most common type of FGM is directly comparable to male foreskin amputation -and- because children are people-human beings with basic rights, who deserve to be able to experience and enjoy their sexuality to the fullest degree as with all of their sensitive, functional bits-our goal should be education & protection rather than validation through clinicaliztion.
I have a girlfriend who has 3 intact boys. The oldest is now 14 and is having problems with retracting his forskin and maybe facing circ. Now how many females are faced with this problem?? I don't know any, but maybe someone else does??
If male circumcision wasn't so widely spread and practiced, amputation-even for medical reasons-would be much rarer than it currently is. The problem with circumcision being so common is that the foreskin is undervalued by our culture, which includes the medical community made up of circumcised men and women who have circumcised husbands and sons.
Issues with foreskin retraction (phimosis) post puberty are frequently caused by improper care during childhood (forced/premature retraction by ignorant but well-meaning family or care providers, resulting in scarring). Most phimosis can be corrected by a few weeks of a topical steroid cream like betamethasone, stretching exercises, dilation under local anesthesia, or a much more minor/conservative surgical procedure that preserves the foreskin.
Some terms you might google include clitoral adhesions, labial adhesions, and vulvar dystrophy.
Jen
Pippi Longstocking
04-09-2007, 04:59
You frightened my labia!
stellarella
04-09-2007, 07:15
Mine too! :eek:
Gosh its wonder my parents didnt just lop it off at birth....it would saved a whole lot of potential problems....:rolleyes: :p
MotherNurture
04-09-2007, 09:09
You frightened my labia!
Mine too! :eek:
Gosh its wonder my parents didnt just lop it off at birth....it would saved a whole lot of potential problems....:rolleyes: :p
:laughing:
Well, if they've been healthy thus far they should see that as a very reassuring sign. Thank heaven's caring for our genitals isn't rocket science.
Jen
ShadyCharacter
04-09-2007, 09:12
Well dang MN, you just frightened me into popping off and getting my girly bits chopped off... shall let you know how it goes ;)
I've actually had eczema on my labia, and while uncomfortable and horribly itchy :o, I didn't even consider chopping them off to prevent it happening again. Silly me ;)
hahah! Thanks for the great thread MN.
MotherNurture
05-09-2007, 10:41
I did come across some pictures of female circumcision clamps some time ago intended to simplify the process/reduce bleeding/give a cleaner/more consistent result; they looked just as medival as what's currently used on little boys.
Found photos of the clamp and how it's used:
noharmm.org/femcirctech.htm
Link unclickable because site is graphic.
To view, highlight & "copy" the url, "paste" it into your broswer, and hit enter/return.
Female Circumcision:
Indications and a New Technique
W.G. Rathmann, M.D.
GP, vol. XX, no. 3, pp 115-120 , September, 1959
Redundancy or phimosis of the female prepuce can prevent proper enjoyment of sexual relations; yet some modern physicians overlook indications for circumcision. Indications for, and relative contraindications against, use of this procedure are presented, and a new technique is described. Properly carried out, circumcision should bring improvement to 85 to 90 per cent of cases - with resulting cure of psychosomatic illness and prevention of divorces.
Disturbingly similar...
Jen
Ashleigh<3
05-09-2007, 10:44
They are exactly the same thing.
So many people condone male circumcision then when they hear of female circumcision they respond in shock, as if it's a completely different form of principle.
:confused:
allysophia
06-09-2007, 08:58
You've convinced me!
I'm sooooo for female circ! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
..sadly, I don't think my husband will leave it up to me.. do you think I have mine done, he'll accept that future DD will wanna look like me?
ShadyCharacter
06-09-2007, 09:28
You've convinced me!
I'm sooooo for female circ! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
..sadly, I don't think my husband will leave it up to me.. do you think I have mine done, he'll accept that future DD will wanna look like me? :laughing: I think your future DD will be emotionally disturbed if she DOESN'T look like you... kids compare their genitals to their parents all the time you know ;)
Pippi Longstocking
06-09-2007, 11:26
You've convinced me!
I'm sooooo for female circ! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
..sadly, I don't think my husband will leave it up to me.. do you think I have mine done, he'll accept that future DD will wanna look like me?
:laughing: :laughing:
GraceUnhearing
06-09-2007, 11:40
well done!
what a great thread
Male and femail circ IS THE SAME THING!!
i cant understand how people think it isnt. :(
sunnyflower
06-09-2007, 15:32
Great thread mother nuture:thumbsup:
I am new here. Let me start by saying what a post MN. I considered myself well informed on the subject, but that has to be one of the most comprehensive replies ever.
Ladies, you may consider this to be a bit of wisdom. I am a 50 year old intact hetro male. When I was born in Canada it was circumcision was routine. However my parents were against it so I was not circ'd.
For years I questioned if I should have it done. And actually considered it. But I did my homework and I am very convinced that it is similar to the female version. Not nearly a sever as the most radical female type but nonetheless this surgery does effect sexual satisfaction. No question.
I won't go into all the details here but it is clear that a foreskin does aid in sensation for both sex and masturbation. Perhaps we can lump both sexes with that statement. If you need a more graphic explanation contact me off the forum at <solosailor@live.ca>>
At one time I was rather non committed on the issue of male circumcision. But as you learn more about it you become more and more opposed to it. The rates are dropping, perhaps there will be a time in future were young parents will say "did they really do that to baby boys?". With the same bewilderment and shock that we view the ritual of female circumcision in Africa.
Sarahmum24
30-06-2008, 09:53
Female circumcision, the partial or total cutting away of the external female genitalia, has been practiced for centuries in parts of Africa, generally as one element of a rite of passage preparing young girls for womanhood and marriage. Often performed without anesthetic under septic conditions by lay practitioners with little or no knowledge of human anatomy or medicine, female circumcision can cause death or permanent health problems as well as severe pain. Despite these grave risks, its practitioners look on it as an integral part of their cultural and ethnic identity, and some perceive it as a religious obligation.
Opponents of female genital cutting, however, emphasize that the practice is detrimental to women's health and well-being. Some consider female circumcision a ritualized form of child abuse and violence against women, a violation of human rights.
Things to remember
Female genital mutilation (FGM) is the partial or complete removal of the external female genitals for cultural rather than medical reasons.
The different types of FGM are classified by the extent of the ‘surgery’.
Health problems include infections, abscesses, blocked urinary flow and painful sexual intercourse.
There are specific laws banning FGM in the majority of Australian states and territories.
[quote]
Female genital mutilation (FGM) is the partial or complete removal of the external female genitals for cultural rather than medical reasons. Other names for FGM include female circumcision or ritual female surgery. It is performed in some African, South American, Asian and Middle Eastern countries. Female genital mutilation is a cultural rather than a religious practice, and its origins are unknown.
The term ‘female genital mutilation’ is Western, and may be insulting to a person who considers that circumcision is in the best interests of the child. Practitioners believe the procedure enhances the girl’s health, hygiene, chastity, fertility and marriage prospects. According to the World Health Organization, around 130 million women across the globe are affected, with around 2 million girls undergoing the procedure every year. Estimates suggest that there are around 120,000 migrant women in Australia who have undergone the practice in their countries of birth. There are specific laws banning FGM in the majority of Australian states and territories.
Different types
The different types of FGM are classified by the extent of the surgery involved, and include:
Type I - clitoridectomy, or ‘sunna’. The hood of skin that sits over the clitoris (prepuce) is removed. The clitoris may or may not be removed in part or in total.
Type II - clitoridectomy, ‘sunna’ or excision and circumcision. The entire clitoris is removed. The inner lips (labia minora) are either partially or totally removed.
Type III - infibulation, Somalian circumcision or Pharaonic circumcision. The external genitals are partly or totally removed and the wound stitched together, leaving a small gap to allow the passage of menstrual fluid and urine.
Type IV - other practices including piercing, cauterising, scraping or using corrosive substances designed to scar and narrow the vagina.
Rite of passage
Since FGM is practised by different cultures with different religious persuasions, the methods and meanings differ. Type I and II are the most common, accounting for over 80 per cent of cases. FGM may be performed on the newborn girl, included in the rituals of impending womanhood or done prior to marriage, depending on the community and their beliefs. There is some evidence to suggest that FGM is being performed on increasingly younger girls.
Some of the beliefs surrounding FGM may involve:
Following tradition and social pressure to conform.
Keeping family honour intact.
Upholding the morality of the community.
Religious purposes, even though FGM isn’t formally prescribed by any religion.
Ensuring virginity.
Enhancing marriage prospects.
Reducing sexual desire.
Reinforcing gender ‘differences’ - the clitoris is seen as ‘male’ and is removed to make sure the girl doesn’t develop ‘male’ traits, such as aggression or promiscuity.
Enhancing beauty or ‘cleanliness’ - the female genitals are seen as ugly and dirty.
Complications and health risks
In many cases, the procedure is performed by medically untrained women using unsterilised equipment, such as razor blades or shards of glass. In remote places, no anaesthesia is available. FGM causes physical, psychological and sexual problems. Some of the complications and health risks include:
Severe pain
Bleeding
Shock from loss of blood
Death
Infection, such as septicaemia, tetanus or blood-borne diseases
Scarring, cysts and abscesses
Blocked flow of urine, so that urination may take up to 15 minutes
Urinary incontinence
Recurring urinary tract infections
Infections of the pelvis
Increased risk of infertility
Painful sexual intercourse
Reduced sexual enjoyment
Childbirth difficulties, such as severe tearing and haemorrhage
Posttraumatic stress syndrome, including nightmares and flashbacks.
The reasons to get it done differ.
I honestly don't see how they differ.
Just one is socially acceptable and the other isn't in Western Society.
I think if we weren't meant to have these bits then we wouldn't be born with them. Simple.
sunnyflower
30-06-2008, 11:39
:iagree:
Fuchsia!
04-07-2008, 08:53
I agree entirely. They are the same thing.
I do find it hypocritical to supprt one and not the other. As I have said before the only difference is that one is socially acceptable (by a minority) in Australian/Western society and the other is not.
:thumbsdown:
:iagree:
MotherNurture
06-07-2008, 09:01
Some of the beliefs surrounding FGM may involve:
Following tradition and social pressure to conform.
Keeping family honour intact.
Upholding the morality of the community.
Religious purposes, even though FGM isn’t formally prescribed by any religion.
Ensuring virginity.
Enhancing marriage prospects.
Reducing sexual desire.
Reinforcing gender ‘differences’ - the clitoris is seen as ‘male’ and is removed to make sure the girl doesn’t develop ‘male’ traits, such as aggression or promiscuity.
Enhancing beauty or ‘cleanliness’ - the female genitals are seen as ugly and dirty
.
Some of the beliefs surrounding MGM may involve:
Following tradition and social pressure to conform:
Like father, like son. Looking like others. Avoiding locker room teasing.
Keeping family honour intact:
Everyone in our family is "done"; besides, what will the neighbor's think?
Upholding the morality of the community:
Male circumcision is still seen in many communities as the "right" thing to do, and only immigrants, poor, low class people don't.
Religious purposes:
Muslims, Jews, and many Christians circumcise because they believe it's religiously necessary or preferable.
Ensuring virginity:
This is similar to "reducing sexual desire", although male virginity has never been as socially valued as female virginity.
Enhancing marriage prospects:
Women prefer cut! Foreskins are gross! If he doesn't get circumcised, no woman will want him.
Reducing sexual desire:
Circumcision was historically believed to reduce masturbation and pleasure.
Reinforcing gender ‘differences’:
In some cultures, circumcision is a sign of manliness, a coming of age rite, something requiring bravery/courage. It makes men, manly; it makes boys into men.
Enhancing beauty or ‘cleanliness’ - the male genitals are seen as ugly and dirty:
Male genitals are seen by many as "dirty", smelly, smegma-covered, etc. if they're not cut.
The reasons are actually strikingly similar.
mumofSeb
06-07-2008, 20:51
I had my son September 2007, and until i was pregnant circumcision was something that some males my age group had had done and some hadnt.I hadnt ever really thought about it to much.
Upon discovering i was pregnant, i suddenly found people were starting to ask if i was going to get my child circumcised if it was a boy. To which i found my answer without hesitation was a resounding no.
My sons father is done, and it didnt even really come up as a major topic. I merely said in passing one day that since i felt i was having a boy, he should know that if he wanted our son done, then he would have to be the one to deal with it, look after the 'wound' and deal with any crying that may occur.
Im by no means a cold person when it comes to babies, but part of me knew that if i put it that way, any motivation he may have had towards getting son done would disappear once he found out what his role in it would be...taking him, being there while its done, follow up care.
At this point it was mentioned to me that neither my father nor his brother were done, and my dad apparantly had to deal with a foreskin that often didnt retract proprely after sex, and apparantly it caused pain, and my uncle had to be circumcised as a 50 year old, and the pain was excruciating. This last bit of information pretty much sealed my thoughts about not getting it done
I just cant see how circumcision is necessary. Just as some people need to have their tonsils or appendix or gall bladders etc removed later in life, some may require circumcision, but then again many people go through life with all these body parts intact.
neostudded
07-08-2008, 04:52
What a wonderful thread.:)
I agree fully, I have also been arguing my point about female and male circumcison being no different but people dont seem to agree.(lucky, I found this thread! your awesome MN)
I think I will print some of this information out and bring it to peoples attention.:thumbsup:
SomewhereOverTheRainbow
13-08-2008, 15:15
What a great thread! Although I have never been 'for' circumcision I had never thought of the similarities between male and female before. Very enlightening!
I have 2 younger brothers, when the first was circumcised he actually developed an infection and bleeding a few weeks afterwards. This was sufficient reason for my mum not to have my youngest brother done when he arrived. I really don't get the whole 'wanting them to look like dad' because does it really matter? If the father is circumcised and the son is not will he really grow up, look at his fathers penis and be disappointed that his parents didn't also hack a piece of his penis off?:laughing: I don't think so...
When I had my son one of my main reasons in not getting it done was that there weren't many doctors in my area who did it and I wasn't that keen to have it done anyway. Particularly after he was born, I can't imagine having to change your son's nappy and see him bleeding and know that you caused it!!:(
You've convinced me!
I'm sooooo for female circ!
..sadly, I don't think my husband will leave it up to me.. do you think I have mine done, he'll accept that future DD will wanna look like me?
Haha!!!! I laughed out loud at this!
I think your future DD will be emotionally disturbed if she DOESN'T look like you... kids compare their genitals to their parents all the time you know
:laughing:
WarriorMummy
13-08-2008, 15:22
i find the whole circ disscussion useless because ppl think what they think and thats that
arguing about it does nothing
ppl have a right to think what they want
SomewhereOverTheRainbow
13-08-2008, 15:37
Of course people have the right to think what they want. We live in a country where free speech is welcomed. But I think the point of this discussion is more: Why the uproar about FGM when male cicumcision is very similar? I mean people in other countries also have the right to think FGM is OK don't they? But does that make it so?
This paper is really informative about FGM and why and the extent to which it happens:
http://www.womensfreedom.org/wp5.PDF
But it's really confronting and upsetting.
I found the bit about Stockholm syndrome really disturbing. Apparently the wedding night, and months afterwards, is so very traumatic for the brides that it forms a very strong bond between the husband and wife. Horrific, really.
Wow! I'm stunned at the ignorance in some of these posts.
No wonder people get so worked up if they don't know the difference between removing skin, and the glans/clitoris.
(Not that I'm in favour of either!)
MotherNurture
04-09-2008, 10:44
Wow! I'm stunned at the ignorance in some of these posts.
No wonder people get so worked up if they don't know the difference between removing skin, and the glans/clitoris.
(Not that I'm in favour of either!)
You read the thread and managed to miss the part about most female circumcision involving removal of the clitoral hood---not the clitoral glans itself, and the fact that the female prepuce (clitoral hood) and male prepuce (foreskin) are anatomically analogous structures with similar functions?
You read the thread and managed to miss the part ...
No, I was referring to some short dogmatic posts. I had not realised what a controversial subject male circumcision is, until reading these forums.
But given the number of people above who claim they "cannot see the difference", no wonder they are emotional!
most female circumcision involving removal of the clitoral hood---not the clitoral glans"most"? Citation? I though most was done in Africa, in appalling circumstances.
There are some cases of female circ. which are analogous to male, but that's not what people are typically referring to as "female circumcision".
So it is counter-productive to equate the two without some serious qualification.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting
PP, thats completely different from what MotherNurture just said, yet you are both right.
See - we are all talking about different things!
In fact the type of minimal fem-circ that MN described can be used to increase sexual please in some women who have a problem.
Oh, and "no orgasm" != "no sexual pleasure what so ever".
Cwazywabbit
04-09-2008, 16:18
umm guys no need to get all nastied up here.
to think (and in most circumstances those who believe in female circumsicion believe that the only way to orgasm is through clitoral stimulation is false.) even without the glands. It's a stupid custom because it is based on the belief that if you remove the clitorus you remove all sexual arousal from a woman. this is not true. Sexual arousal in females is a lot more complex than just the clitorus, (although some women who can only have arousal with the clitorus being stimulated may believe the opposite. Which in western society is a bit backwards and a bit of a shame for them)
May I suggest that before anyone starts talking about the removal of the clitorus defuncts a woman of sexual arousal do the sums yourself. The next time you have sex ignore the clitorus completely and have your partner stimulate other areas of your body . It may take a while but you will come to orgasm. Key points are the nipple of the breast, the vaginal canal the anus and other parts of the body, all of which are high to extreme erogenous zones of the body. lesser erogenous zones are anywhere on the body that has no growing hair .............you guys can work that out for yourselves.
And by the way clitoral removal is practiced in Western hospitals with government aproval if those women choose it . It is illegal if the girl is a minor. those who believe in it just wait until they are eighteen in Engalnd Australia and America.
i'm not an advocate of male or female circumcision
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.9 Copyright © 2012 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.