AFAO: Male circumcision has no role in the Australian HIV epidemic

[MotherNurture]

Australian Federation of Aids Organizations (AFAO):
Male circumcision has no role in the Australian HIV epidemic (http://www.afao.org.au/library_docs/policy/Circumcision07.pdf)

Key points:

• There is no demonstrated benefit of circumcision in men who have sex with men.

• Correct and consistent condom use, not circumcision, is the most effective means of reducing female-to-male transmission, and vice-versa.

• African data on circumcision is context-specific and cannot be extrapolated to the Australian epidemic in any way.

http://www.afao.org.au/library_docs/policy/Circumcision07.pdf

[ShadyCharacter]

Just what we suspected all along :thumbsup:

[Pippi Longstocking]

Thanks for that MN. You are a veritable wealth of info. :yelclap:

[Mahjong]

I'll pass this information on the next time someone I know (IRL) shoves this excuse down my throat. She's been trying o tell me this since Ive had Wyatt and also that he's more likley to get a STD and Hep C.

[allysophia]

I don't think AIDS should come into the discussion of whether we take away the rights of babies.

I'm glad its fallen our way (so to speak!) but I think it detracts from the topic: Babies rights!

[circangel]

That is just hearing what you wanted to hear, what about the report where it is going to commence soon and without a roll out phase to curb HIV/AIDS. This is for Australia.

[MotherNurture]

That is just hearing what you wanted to hear...

Indeed.

...from a reputable, official, specialized organization.

Cheers,

Jen

[ShadyCharacter]

That is just hearing what you wanted to hear, what about the report where it is going to commence soon and without a roll out phase to curb HIV/AIDS. This is for Australia.
Can you share a copy of this with us please?

[circangel]

Here it is and I feel it is from a reputatable source as anyone could get. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Sex/story?id=3436936&page=1

[Pippi Longstocking]

Here it is and I feel it is from a reputatable source as anyone could get. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Sex/story?id=3436936&page=1

I'm confused - you said it was a report pertinent to Australia but you posted a link to a biased opinion piece from an American TV station. :confused:
Hardly reputable!

[ShadyCharacter]

And not only that, this is from the very first page of the article you posted:


The American Academy of Pediatrics reflects that doubt in its official policy, which states: "Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision."
:confused: :confused:

[ShadyCharacter]

Actually circangel, I am now REALLY confused. The original (fully referenced) article MN posted was on the topic "Male circumcision has no role in the Australian HIV epidemic"


You replied with:

That is just hearing what you wanted to hear, what about the report where it is going to commence soon and without a roll out phase to curb HIV/AIDS. This is for Australia.
When asked for a COPY of the 'report', you posted a link to a NEWS article from a US website about a (Canadian, not Australian like you claimed) study entitled " Circumcision Doesn't Reduce Sexual Sensation".

How is that at all relevant to circumcision reducing HIV?

Have you seen the study you were actually talking about? Did you just post a link to the wrong thing by mistake?

And in regards to your original post, what exactly is going to commence soon? And what is a 'roll out phase'?

Your enlightenment would be much appreciated :)

[Can I?]

Great article MN. Exactly what I have been wanting to know since the news broke and we were suddenly inundated with calls to circumcise our sons for their own safety.

:yelclap:

[circangel]

Here is the url; speaking was an American Dr but he was in Sydney at an international conference so I guess he was making his point for the rest of the world, or so I thought but now I have read it again it is for african countries but could this not be also applied elsewhere in the world. I originally thought he was an Australian Dr. Reading between the lines I would interpret him suggesting that it would be of benifit if you are not in a high risk catogory. I interpret certain parts of the world there will need to be mass circumcision to prevent HIV but I am not sure exactly when that will be commencing. A roll out phase is esentially when something is implemented and "no roll out phase" if that was stated means that essentially it would be high priority to get it done and the process started without delay.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/circumcise-now-to-protect-millions/2007/07/24/1185043097198.html

[sam's mum]

sorry circangel, when I read that article he seems to be talking about universal circumcision in Africa, not in the rest of the world. The comments he makes that convince me of this are:


A lack of training and poor equipment means up to 35 per cent of these clients end up with infections or other problems.

On the back of successful trial results, the World Health Organisation and UNAIDS has backed the use of circumcision to fight the epidemic, but Professor Bailey said it was up to Third World governments to take the lead.

"Until it's endorsed at a local level it's going to be difficult to get donors to come in and support services because they don't want to be seen to be imposing their values on indigenous populations," he said.

It all seems to be about making changes in the third world countries where they don't have access to education and medicine like we do.

[ShadyCharacter]

Yep, a US Dr speaking at an International AIDS Society conference, that just happened to be held in Sydney.

Very first paragraph:

Male circumcision must be urgently embraced on a grand scale to help stop millions catching HIV in Third World nations ravaged by the virus, a leading HIV expert says.
This would NOT be Australia.

Not long after:

Three major African studies recently confirmed what researchers suspected as far back as 1995 - that circumcision cuts the risk of HIV transmission by up to 60 per cent in heterosexual men. The practice does not appear to benefit gay men in the same way, making it of little use for Australia's at-risk group.



So, even in the information YOU are providing, there is absolutely NO support for routine infant circumcision in Australia.



IF circumcision truly does help prevent the spread of AIDS (which I still can't completely believe, but freely admit a lot of the evidence does seem to indicate it), I could possibly support circumcision in a third world country where AIDS/HIV is an absolute epidemic, even in hetrosexuals.


But IMO, there is absolutely no excuse for RIC in Australia, and the AIDS prevention thing is one of the worst excuses. I prefer to education my children about safe sex, rather than chopping bits off their body just IN CASE they sleep with a HIV positive person in adulthood.

[Phyllis Stein]

Just thought I'd point out that Professor Robert Bailey is not a medical doctor, but has degrees in Anthropology & Behavioral Epidemiology.

His academic profile:
http://apr.sph.uic.edu/sphpub/faculty_profile/facultyprofile.asp?i=rcbailey

[circangel]

I am not sure about them still not having access to education or medicine; I know it has been a problem in the past. I believe they are trying to lead the way for the rest of the world to follow where circumcision was in the mid last century, resurgence if you like.

[sam's mum]

I am not sure about them still not having access to education or medicine; I know it has been a problem in the past. I believe they are trying to lead the way for the rest of the world to follow where circumcision was in the mid last century, resurgence if you like.

This guy is the authority that you are citing. He is the one who has said that they don't have adequate access to education or medicine.

Either he knows what he is talking about, and we believe everything he says. Or he doesn't know what he is talking about, and we believe nothing. We can't just choose to believe some parts of the article and not others.

[circangel]

Point taken but I do not think they are fools and it could quite well be setting the platform for the rest of the world that is my point.

[ShadyCharacter]

I am not sure about them still not having access to education or medicine; I know it has been a problem in the past. I believe they are trying to lead the way for the rest of the world to follow where circumcision was in the mid last century, resurgence if you like.
Again, your own source is saying:


The practice does not appear to benefit gay men in the same way, making it of little use for Australia's at-risk group.He is NOT saying 'let's start with Third World countries and take over the world', he is saying RIC would be "OF LITTLE USE" in preventing HIV/AIDS in Australia.

[ShadyCharacter]

That is just hearing what you wanted to hear, what about the report where it is going to commence soon and without a roll out phase to curb HIV/AIDS. This is for Australia.
Also, the 'report' said no such thing. It said that ONE (non Dr) recommended routine circumcision in third world countries, not that anything 'is going to start soon'.