View Full Version : Removal of body parts to save lives
Blueberry Crumble
24-08-2007, 19:52
I was reading this magazine article a while back, and have heard of a few of these stories before- about women who have a strong family history and high risk of getting breast cancer or ovarian cancer. Some choose to have their breasts reoved and hysterectomies for the specific reason that they MIGHT get cancer down the track.
Do you think that this issue can be compared to circumcision? I mean, I know that obviously there is a difference between the two situations as the women ARE at a high risk for illness, where as most babies who are circed arent. And also the women get to CHOOSE to have the operation, rather than have that choice made for them. But I just thought it was an interesting comparison.
We know that many people who choose to get their babies circed do it with the intention of preventing infection/health problems (and now we are talking about AIDS in third world countries) - but is removing a part of the body the answer?
Should babies who have a high risk of developing other illnesses later in life, like ovarian cancer for exapmple, have their ovaries removed? How is that any different from circing for preventable measures? I know that having ovaries removed is much more intefering than most circs, but then some boys DO have complications from the procedure, so what is the difference?
Sorry if this didnt make sense! I was just typing all that was in my brain. I know what I am trying to say:laughing:
sam's mum
24-08-2007, 19:57
I know what you are saying.
when DH and I were still having 'discussions' over circing I told him that he could DS circed when he found a doctor that was willing to take out DS's appendix in case he got appendicitis later on.
He said it wasn't the same, but I said it was to me.
I guess that if I had a history of body part cancer I would consider having that body part removed - but there would be a huge weighing up of advantages vs disadvantages. I would want to be pretty sure that I was either finished with the bits, or that the risk of keeping them wasn't worth it.
My grandmother died of breast cancer. my mother had breast cancer. I HAVE considered having surgery to remove my breasts and I think about it often. Ihave had by 2 wonderful kids and that is it for me.(or ultrasounds every freakin month). There are also other tests I can have.
I don't believe that it is anything like circumcision and shouldn't even be compared. If people want to circumcise their kids then that is totally their decision, no-one elses.
serendipity22
24-08-2007, 22:58
If people want to circumcise their kids then that is totally their decision, no-one elses.
We will have to agree to disagree on that one. I'll open up a new thread on that.
All body parts have a function. Tonsils are important, the appendix is important, the foreskin is important.
Its very arrogant to presume that because the function of a body part is unknown, that it has no function.
A few decades ago countless children had their tonsils unnecessarily removed.
I remember in the news a few years ago there was one entrepenurial Queensland doctor was unnecessarily removing thousands of tonsils. How unethical can you get?
I responded to the OP where it was asked my opinion. I gave my opinion. Sorry just wanted to check (it is too early in the morning), is it me whom you think is arrogant.??
My grandmother died of breast cancer. my mother had breast cancer. I HAVE considered having surgery to remove my breasts and I think about it often. Ihave had by 2 wonderful kids and that is it for me.(or ultrasounds every freakin month). There are also other tests I can have.
I don't believe that it is anything like circumcision and shouldn't even be compared. If people want to circumcise their kids then that is totally their decision, no-one elses.
what if i say 'if your parents wanted to remove your breasts as a girl, (with the very real intention and possibility of saving you life) then that is totally their decision, no-one elses' (i.e not yours)
what would your reaction be?
Your parents could weigh up the pros and cons all day, but in the end, it is YOU who is given the power to choose, and surely you are thankful for this?
Of course, breast amputation is far more damaging than circumcision, but then...so are the risks of breast cancer far more real and common than the risks of not "looking like dady".
serendipity22
25-08-2007, 13:19
is it me whom you think is arrogant.??
No BabyLs, it wasn't you. lol
I was just responding to the words "removal of body parts" in the title of the thread.
I was just giving a POV on the belief that organs like the appendix are vestigal, therfore its ok to remove them even if they are healthy.
Just because a reason for something hasn't been found at one point in time, doesn't mean there isn't.
Debono uses the term "mental arrogance" to mean a state in which someone has stopped exploring an issue.
what if i say 'if your parents wanted to remove your breasts as a girl, (with the very real intention and possibility of saving you life) then that is totally their decision, no-one elses' (i.e not yours)
what would your reaction be?
Your parents could weigh up the pros and cons all day, but in the end, it is YOU who is given the power to choose, and surely you are thankful for this?
Of course, breast amputation is far more damaging than circumcision, but then...so are the risks of breast cancer far more real and common than the risks of not "looking like dady".
Like I said earlier...I was giving my opinion not asking for anyone's judgment of that opinion. What I said is how I feel...I don't think it is the same.
No BabyLs, it wasn't you. lol
I was just responding to the words "removal of body parts" in the title of the thread.
I was just giving a POV on the belief that organs like the appendix are vestigal, therfore its ok to remove them even if they are healthy.
Just because a reason for something hasn't been found at one point in time, doesn't mean there isn't.
Debono uses the term "mental arrogance" to mean a state in which someone has stopped exploring an issue.
Ok cool.:)
I'm trying to think of any other procedure that is done to a child to pre-emptively deal with a potential disease, and I can't think of one (but hey, it is getting close to my bedtime).
Some women do choose to have a mastectomy if they have a family history of breast cancer, but that is those women making a choice for their own bodies - so it isn't the same at all in my mind either.
Imagine that - so far everyone agrees on a thread in this section :laughing:
Cheers
I generally avoid circ threats as i tend not to have an opinion on the subject being that i don have a son, however this thread made me think i remember a few years ago my friends 8 year old son had to be circed as he got a terrible infection and being years old and a bit shy about his private parts he didn't tell him mum straight away, mainly because he had been playing with his self and he thought that was why (it wasn't) any way his mum found out because she heard him screaming and crying in the shower she went in and he tried to hide it but she saw how badly infected his penis was and he was it was bleeding and had puss coming out of the foreskin, she took him to the ER and he was admitted for IV antibiotic and as soon as it was safe they operated, the poor little guy was not only in pain and being that he was 8 at the time he only had pain but felt very uncomfortable about having Dr's and nurses looking at his penis, i know for a fact he saw a councilor for years about the stress and trauma.
This was a few years ago and i remember saying to my self then if i ever have a son i will not let that happen to them i will get him circed as soon as i can, and my friend who's son had this traumatic experience she actually got her younger sons done as well and she swore is she ever had another son she would not leave the hospital with out him getting circed.
I still dont know if i ever nave a son if i Will get him circed at this stage i think not, but you never know what life is going to throw your way,
serendipity22
25-08-2007, 20:52
Imagine that - so far everyone agrees on a thread in this section
I remember the story of 2 brothers who would never agree on anything.
The hero in the story says "if you always disagree, then aren't you agreeing to disagree, and therefore aren't you really in agreement.":ecomcity:
Little_Toad
25-08-2007, 20:57
Should babies who have a high risk of developing other illnesses later in life, like ovarian cancer for exapmple, have their ovaries removed?
Wouldn't quite work if you had a history of brain cancer though...
pookiesossige
25-08-2007, 21:12
Some women do choose to have a mastectomy if they have a family history of breast cancer, but that is those women making a choice for their own bodies - so it isn't the same at all in my mind either.
Imagine that - so far everyone agrees on a thread in this section :laughing:
Cheers
Yes, I totally agree :yes: It's different to me also, because I feel that the real issue is that a parent makes the decision to alter their baby boy's body. It is not usually left for the boy to decide for himself when older, despite the fact that the body is his own and his foreskin was healthy at the time of circumcision.
pookiesossige
25-08-2007, 21:16
I generally avoid circ threats as i tend not to have an opinion on the subject being that i don have a son, however this thread made me think i remember a few years ago my friends 8 year old son had to be circed as he got a terrible infection and being years old and a bit shy about his private parts he didn't tell him mum straight away, mainly because he had been playing with his self and he thought that was why (it wasn't) any way his mum found out because she heard him screaming and crying in the shower she went in and he tried to hide it but she saw how badly infected his penis was and he was it was bleeding and had puss coming out of the foreskin, she took him to the ER and he was admitted for IV antibiotic and as soon as it was safe they operated, the poor little guy was not only in pain and being that he was 8 at the time he only had pain but felt very uncomfortable about having Dr's and nurses looking at his penis, i know for a fact he saw a councilor for years about the stress and trauma.
This was a few years ago and i remember saying to my self then if i ever have a son i will not let that happen to them i will get him circed as soon as i can, and my friend who's son had this traumatic experience she actually got her younger sons done as well and she swore is she ever had another son she would not leave the hospital with out him getting circed.
I still dont know if i ever nave a son if i Will get him circed at this stage i think not, but you never know what life is going to throw your way,
Oh dear. I wonder though, if your friend knew about leaving the foreskin alone until it retracted on its own, then teaching her son to wash daily (a quick retract/rinse with water/replace... takes all of 10 seconds) and handling it only with clean hands? That's something ALL boys need to do, circ'ed or intact... There's still a hole in the top either way- you can still get infections. Thankfully they are so rare!
I think getting your son circumcised because your friends/next door neighbours/aunty's boyfriend's cousin's child got an infection that was fixed with circumcision has got to be the most questionable reason I have ever heard to have your son's foreskin removed.
If you own child got an infection, then yep, sure, it might be an option.
The foreskin has a purpose. Removing it shouldn't be done without some careful consideration to weigh up the risks and benefits to that particular penis, not just penises in general.
I agree and if you read my whole post you will see that i actually said at the time i was a lot younger and thought if i ever had a son i would get them circed, i also said further down i don't think i would but will but i don't know until the time comes
oh, it wasn't directed at you specifically, just at everyone who says this sort of thing.
Your post just reminded me of it that's all. sorry!
Oh dear. I wonder though, if your friend knew about leaving the foreskin alone until it retracted on its own, then teaching her son to wash daily (a quick retract/rinse with water/replace... takes all of 10 seconds) and handling it only with clean hands? That's something ALL boys need to do, circ'ed or intact... There's still a hole in the top either way- you can still get infections. Thankfully they are so rare!
I am not sure and I don't think will call my friend and ask her if she thinks that her sons infection was her fault KWIM, however i do know she is a peadiatric nurse so I would assume she is some what educated on hygiene and the male anatomy
oh, it wasn't directed at you specifically, just at everyone who says this sort of thing.
Your post just reminded me of it that's all. sorry!
:) okay no sorry didnt think of that
pookiesossige
25-08-2007, 22:02
I am not sure and I don't think will call my friend and ask her if she thinks that her sons infection was her fault KWIM, however i do know she is a peadiatric nurse so I would assume she is some what educated on hygiene and the male anatomy
Of course you wouldn't imply she was at fault :hugs:
I just mentioned that because so many seem to think that a foreskin means there will always be dramas and that it needs to be practically sterile. And others say their children had problems that resulted in a circ but didn't understand the 'leave-it-alone' rule and tried to 'help' the foreskin retract thinking it was 'stuck'. Or- didn't think that sometimes boys up to 10+ years old might need reminders regarding retract-rinse-replace, just like they need supervision brushing their teeth still sometimes- just so you know from time to time that it's a) actually done; and b) done properly.
Like I said earlier...I was giving my opinion not asking for anyone's judgment of that opinion. What I said is how I feel...I don't think it is the same.
well then..you don't have to answer, but i would like to know why you feel that i should not have the same right as you to make my own choices about my body. Why is a decision about my penis, my parents decision and "no one elses", but decisions about your breasts are yours?
Blueberry Crumble
26-08-2007, 02:39
I generally avoid circ threats as i tend not to have an opinion on the subject being that i don have a son, however this thread made me think i remember a few years ago my friends 8 year old son had to be circed as he got a terrible infection and being years old and a bit shy about his private parts he didn't tell him mum straight away, mainly because he had been playing with his self and he thought that was why (it wasn't) any way his mum found out because she heard him screaming and crying in the shower she went in and he tried to hide it but she saw how badly infected his penis was and he was it was bleeding and had puss coming out of the foreskin, she took him to the ER and he was admitted for IV antibiotic and as soon as it was safe they operated, the poor little guy was not only in pain and being that he was 8 at the time he only had pain but felt very uncomfortable about having Dr's and nurses looking at his penis, i know for a fact he saw a councilor for years about the stress and trauma.
This was a few years ago and i remember saying to my self then if i ever have a son i will not let that happen to them i will get him circed as soon as i can, and my friend who's son had this traumatic experience she actually got her younger sons done as well and she swore is she ever had another son she would not leave the hospital with out him getting circed.
I still dont know if i ever nave a son if i Will get him circed at this stage i think not, but you never know what life is going to throw your way,
You know, having gone through this experience, this lady who had sons after her 8 year old went through that, I dont blame her for circing them.
As I said in a previous post, our decisions, whatever they may be, are made by our own life experiences
well then..you don't have to answer, but i would like to know why you feel that i should not have the same right as you to make my own choices about my body. Why is a decision about my penis, my parents decision and "no one elses", but decisions about your breasts are yours?
I am not going to enter into a debate. Have a good day!!!!
it is a genuine question.
not an ivitation for a debate.
The choice to tattoo my body, cut off my fingers, scarify my legs etc, are, and should be decisions that only i have the power to make. Even in the case of existing and life threatening diseases, the choice of amputation is made by the owner of the body in question.....except of course in the case of the male prepuce, when even healthy ones can be removed for the most flippant of parental whims.
i have no idea how anyone can support the idea of this discrepancy, and this frustrates me, and so, i would like to know.
AndrewJ..I am sooo tired I am not sure I can even think up an answer but will answer you the best i can.
Our son is intact and my DH is circ'd. I was simply saying that I thought the two things were not the same. I find the decision about my breasts to be a lot harder of a decision than getting our son circ'd. We didn't even think about it. we had him, obviously we looked at each other one day in hospital and said, what will we do, circ or not. We just shrugged and said, no need to. No big deal.
All I am trying to say is that if parents decide to ge their kids done that's what they have decided to do within that family. We made a decision it was just a different one. I don't judge my friends who circ their sons cause it's not my son. I understand people having negative opinions about circ however I am not anti-circ I am just someone who didn't get our son done. And I don't think people getting their sons done makes them a bad parent.
Also I have never come across a man who was upset at his parents for being circ'd. But that is just the little world I live in. Maybe you can call me naive or sheltered or whatever but I am bringing up my kids and no-one elses.
I don't even know itf this makes sense or not. Or if I am answering your question properly.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.9 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.