60 Minutes - Sunday

[Milliner]

For those who have not heard yet, there will be a story airing on 60 minutes on Sunday night 7.30pm on Circumcision. With all the recent stories on HIV/AIDS and circumcision, I think we can say that is what the program will be about, as it states on the add "Circumcision could save your sons life" :rolleyes:

Here is a link (http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/) to their website.

[nemosmum]

I was just talking about this today with some mums at playgroup

I mention this 60mins report but warned them to be skeptical there programs are almost always biased

Dont know if I will watch, its a bit of a touchy subject with me:o mothers guilt and all that :(

[pookiesossige]

Oh that's just freaking great!
I'm not gonna watch but will check here for what people thought afterwards.
A balanced story? Well-researched? Well, it's 60 Minutes... I don't think so!!:no: :rolleyes:

[pookiesossige]

Dont know if I will watch, its a bit of a touchy subject with me:o mothers guilt and all that :(

Hun, find something else to do while it's on- you don't need to be made to feel like that :hugs: :hugs: It's likely to press all the wrong buttons with many people...

[nemosmum]

thanks Em:)

[moonblossom]

Yeah I'm sure they will do an unbias story like they did with attachment parenting...WHAT A LOAD OF CROCK...I am SO disappointed the way they do their interviews its terrible.

I am anti curcumcision, but I will watch, just to see what sort of **** they come out with this time.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Sixty Minutes, you sensationlists ******** :mad:

[Milliner]

I will be watching too, but DP said that he will stay away from me while it's on as I know it's going to get me fired up.

[tweedledee*tweedledum]

I'll be more interested in the mailbag the week after! :laughing:

[Blueberry Crumble]

I dont know about you guys, but I watched the add and saw that little baby crying after as he was getting it done and it makes me feel SICK to the stomach.

[stellarella]

It really bothers me that current affairs programs do such bias and misinformed stories because there are lots of easily led people out there who believe everything they see on tellie...."well the tellie said this...ah der!"

Gosh, I wish ABC and SBS were the only channels we got. :laughing:

[tweedledee*tweedledum]

It really bothers me that current affairs programs do such bias and misinformed stories because there are lots of easily led people out there who believe everything they see on tellie...."well the tellie said this...ah der!"

Gosh, I wish ABC and SBS were the only channels we got. :laughing:

Hmmmm...I've found the ABC to be biased on occasion also....

[stellarella]

Hmmmm...I've found the ABC to be biased on occasion also....


Have you?

[Blueberry Crumble]

It really bothers me that current affairs programs do such bias and misinformed stories because there are lots of easily led people out there who believe everything they see on tellie...."well the tellie said this...ah der!"

Gosh, I wish ABC and SBS were the only channels we got. :laughing:

So true :)

I guess after the show tomorrow night, this part of the forum will be flooding with people!:laughing:

[tweedledee*tweedledum]

Have you?

Yep. But that's not the purpose of this thread, so I'll leav it there! :D

[shed]

I'll watch it if I remember and I am happy to view it with an open mind.

It won't change anything in this house but I will try and understand what the point of RIC is from the perspective of those who practise it.

Will be interesting, if a little sad.

[stellarella]

Hmmmm...I've found the ABC to be biased on occasion also....

You know what? I've thought about this and yes, they do bias stories however they dont claim to be unbiased stories iykwim...

Current affairs programs like today tonight etc. often give the impression that they are telling both sides but then they tip the scales to whichever side they want...I dont like the facade of being an informative program when its not.

ABC/SBS do bias stories/programs however the intention is always known...thats my experience anyway and there in lies the difference.

[Aquamarine]

I'll be more interested in the mailbag the week after! :laughing:


I can just imagine what that will be like!:yes:

[icugal]

Maybe you guys should watch the episode first, and THEN criticise it.

They want ratings... of course they're going to put the most controversial part of the story in the advertisment.

Maybe they'll suprise you?? (then again maybe not)

[forbetoel]

I have not had any of my sons done and don't intend to, but I won't judge until I see it. I have lots of reasons why I wouldn't get my sons done, but I am still interested in why some people do, it won't change my mind, but I may learn something???? I don't think there is anything wrong with this segment being biased, I mean, they are already stating, by saying "circumsission can save your son's life" that it is going to report on the pro side for circ, and just because I don't believe in circ, doesn't mean I won't aknowledge that there are some(however tiny) advantages for doing it. I still would never have my sons done, but there is always another side to the story.

[~Emmylou~]

Great.
Remind me to take the phone off the hook afterwards...I'm sure I'll get at least one phonecall from one of my son's grandparents :rolleyes:

[shed]

Maybe you guys should watch the episode first, and THEN criticise it.



Huh?


:laughing: wheres the fun it that?

[Blueberry Crumble]

Huh?


:laughing: wheres the fun it that?

So true:yes: we are women- we are meant to speculate and jump to conclusions:laughing:

[stellarella]

Ahhh maybe its jumping to conclusions but it doesn't take much guess work to know what it will be about....they dont exactly have a good track record....

However I am open to being pleasantly surprised...pffft :rolleyes:

[~Emmylou~]

Their sales pitch is "It Could Save Your Son's Life"!!!!!

Hmmm...that'll be one unbiased, balanced story won't it :detective:

[serendipity22]

On shows on circ they usually find the most extreme fanatical pro-circers around for the 'for' case.

[forbetoel]

Senendipity, that is the case with everthing, when it comes from a minority point of veiw, just like if it was for non-vaxing mums (that is just an example) but they will use an extreme case, to validate their reasons, and no matter how small, or extreme the risk is, everybody is just going to have different veiws, and I think most people will be well aware, that this doesn't occur that regulary. I don't think people will be lining up to have their boys done, after the show airs. Or at least I hope not.

[our little treasures]

I dont know about you guys, but I watched the add and saw that little baby crying after as he was getting it done and it makes me feel SICK to the stomach.


I am with you! I actually cringe and cry!! I feel sorry that this actually happens to babies:crying:
My hubby even got upset, I don't think I could watch it due to that part:gloomy: ! I will be on Bubhub immediately after it though I want to see what is said here

[Roopee]

The "headlines" for this story make me sick to my stomach! God knows what the actual story will do.

Oh, it wont be unbiased! Its 60minutes after all.
The title says it all. "The cut that could save your babies life" What a load of crappola.

Wonder which outdated, unsupported studies and so called evidence they will use to corrupt peoples thinking.

[Pippi Longstocking]

This is so sad.

It made me sick too when i watched circumcisions being peformed. Especially the part where they pull/split and cut apart the foreskin to attach the plastibell. That bit will be forever etched in my mind.


The babies scream and scream, its so heartbreaking. I think what worse is that some babies make no noise, they just go into extreme shock and stay so still and silent. :crying:



:crying: It is really really distressing. That is why I am so vocal on the circ threads - I am not here simply to p!ss people off - I constantly debate it because I want it stopped. The thought of little babies being subjected to that degree of pain genuinely distresses me. I might try begging rather than brow-beating...please please please parents, let your little guys decide for themselves. If it is really that important to them to "look like dad" surely they will tell you so and ask to be circumcised to have matchign genitals with dad (yes, of course that is unlikely! That's kinda my point...). A bath every day is a far kinder way to prevent the very small risk of infections. Teaching them about safe sex practices when they are older will be a far more effective way to protect them from STDs. Hmm, what are the other justifications people use? Oh yeah, "I prefer circumcised to uncircumcised, they look better". Well what can I say tio that really, besides for the obvious eeeeeew! There is something very creepy about inflicting your own sex-related genital preference on to your new born son. It's entirely...icky.
There, most common reasons have been sorted. yay, there is no need to do it. Excellent, I am glad we had this little chat!

[mum2my4]

My husband is uncircumcised and is 34 he hasn't died from not being circumcised. Nor does he have Aids, and he has never had an STD.

I just don't understand their point, that it can save your life :confused:

[ButterflyMama]

I won't be watching it. Biased rubbish IMO.

[Aquamarine]

My husband is uncircumcised and is 34 he hasn't died from not being circumcised. Nor does he have Aids, and he has never had an STD.

I just don't understand their point, that it can save your life :confused:


I agree, I don't understand the point either??

[Milliner]

For the record I would prefer that the procedure was banned all together, of course unless for medical reasons. I too felt sick to the stomach when I saw the picture of the baby being held down.

[nemosmum]

anyone watch it?

I did although changed the channel when they showed the procedure

I have to say that guy from Temptation made me want to :banghead: slap him up the side of the head to wipe that stupid smile off his face

I think it was a piece of fluff really not much info on either side:no:

[ICanDream]

I agree it was a bit of fluff but I think it was more balanced than I had expected. I guess it can't be conclusive as the issue itself is so divided. What I do find interesting is that the peadatric council is currently reviewing the practice, but states are trying to ban it before that review is complete - despite whichever way the review goes.

Anyway, as a mother of a boy I still feel completely in the dark and probably always will. Nothing for or against makes me sure I've made the right choice :banghead:

[forbetoel]

I think more than anything the program was anti-circ. I am anti-circ (except medically) and I came away from the program feeling even more strongly anti-circ.

[nemosmum]

I think more than anything the program was anti-circ. I am anti-circ (except medically) and I came away from the program feeling even more strongly anti-circ.

I actually agree
I am glad they didnt sugar coat the procedure and applaud them for showing it in full

I really am still upset over that guy from temptation though
I felt like they should have shown that footage (of the procedure to him) which may have then helped to wipe that silly grin off his face!

[Blueberry Crumble]

i think they showed a rather balanced view of both sides- although nothing really much was said IYKWIM?

But it did tip more to being anticirc- That poor baby when they showed it, he was screaming- u cant tell me he wasnt feeling pain.

It made me even more anti-circ.

[Aquamarine]

I cried.:crying:

Traumatic!

[talia11]

We watched it and hubby said it doesnt change his opinion - if we have a son he will have it done, just as his son was at birth.... Yes it was horrible to see the baby getting it done - however I have yet to come across a child who remembers the pain - I know my step-son certainly doesn't....:rolleyes:

[pebilz]

Can someone please tell me what the Temptation guy said/did? I missed the show. Was he being a loser?

[Milliner]

You should be able to find the transcripts on the website. That professor was an id!ot.

[pebilz]

I tried the transcripts but I'm on a mac and don't have the plugin to dowloand or email it. Can someone send it to me?

[pookiesossige]

Well, I didn't watch the show but DH read the transcript and is appalled (though not surprised) at the manner in which the issue was tackled.

They interviewed Dr Terry Russell? Hasn't he had disciplinary action taken against him for working unethically or something-or-other? Then they interviewed parents who hadn't quite made up their minds but were interested in these absurbly false medical claims regarding AIDS etc. Another pro-circ doctor. Then one anti-circ doctor who was made out to look like a crackpot who doesn't believe circumcision is necessary only because he himself isn't 'done'.

:banghead: :banghead:

My mum and my best friend have witnessed many plastibel procedures as part of their job and have told me exactly how traumatic an experience it is. And for crying out loud "they don't remember the pain"?? Um.... IT'S NOT NECESSARY! You don't even have to inflict pain on a helpless baby to begin with... just don't do it and LET HIM CHOOSE LATER!

Phewf. Feel'in better, getting out of this section quicksmart :o

[~Emmylou~]

I didn't hear much of it - I was too busy swearing at the tv :banghead:

Utter tripe.

[serendipity22]

however I have yet to come across a child who remembers the pain

The 5 year old boy on the show did....


Do you remember the operation?

BRADEN DONALDSON: Not too well, but some of it I do.

LIAM BARTLETT: Which parts do you remember?

BRADEN DONALDSON: The pain.

LIAM BARTLETT: It hurt, huh?

BRADEN DONALDSON: Yeah, it hurt a bit.

LIAM BARTLETT: And that would have put you off going to the doctor.

BRADEN DONALDSON: Yep. Didn't want to go back for a long time.

Keep in mind he most likely had it under a general.

[Milliner]

Pebliz pm me your email and I will send it to you

[Sammy76]

I only saw a little bit of it, and unfortunately the procedure. My heart breaks for the little boy...

Can someone please tell me...didn't they say that they numb the area...and that he didn't really feel anything?? Was he crying because he was being held down?

My son isn't circumcised, and seeing this made me happier that he isn't. There is no way I would've been able to let him go thru that...I have enough trouble just getting his immunisation done.

[serendipity22]

They interviewed Dr Terry Russell? Hasn't he had disciplinary action taken against him for working unethically or something-or-other?

60 minutes had no business putting him on the show
(and hence giving him free advertising). He was fined and reprimanded for performing hundreds of unnecessary tongue tie surgeries on boys while he was circumcising them (while simultaneously deceiving parents).

At least he didn't say his usual line about the plastibell not involving cutting as he was too busy crushing and cutting.

Both Russell and Morris say on their websites that the babies don't feel pain so they both look a little silly.

The boy was grimacing like he was being stuck like a pig. You heard some cries.

There seemed be some moments when they dubbed the sound out, so I don't think we heard it all.

[mum_inlove]

I cried my eyes out..I didn't know they were gonna show the procedure. I thought the new procedure would be painless..But the way the baby cries, it was a pain cry. Me and dh were like "how come they didn't put him under or something"..But yeah, after watching the show, I made a decision that it'll be entirely up to ds. if he's a 23 year old boy and wants to get circumcise then he can as long as that what he wants, unless for medical reason, of course. If he doesn't want to get it done, then that's what it'll be..

[Aquamarine]

I cried my eyes out..I didn't know they were gonna show the procedure. I thought the new procedure would be painless..But the way the baby cries, it was a pain cry. Me and dh were like "how come they didn't put him under or something"..But yeah, after watching the show, I made a decision that it'll be entirely up to ds. if he's a 23 year old boy and wants to get circumcise then he can as long as that what he wants, unless for medical reason, of course. If he doesn't want to get it done, then that's what it'll be..

I agree 100%

Can you imagine what the mail bag will be like next week?

[Roopee]

I am ashamed to admit BUT when i seen the procedure performed...i literally vomited onto my coffee table. Anyone who tries to say that baby didnt feel anything is kidding themselves.

I am so so so glad that i made the decision to keep my boys intact.

[talia11]

[quote=serendipity22;1836189]The 5 year old boy on the show did....[quote]



I think however you forgot the part that he was 5 years old when it was done - big different to having it done when a few weeks old.....(and I am only referring to the pain factor here and the child's ability to remember such pain) - I dont necessarily know if there is any argument that it hurts - I think the thing that was trying to be put out is that the child has no recollection of it later...

I suppose at the end of the day it is personal choice - and I respect both sides of the argument for and against....

[forbetoel]

Ropee- Don't be ashamed, I had my mouth covered and was screaming NO! NO! NO! to the television. My stomach churned at the vision. Poor little bub! :(

[Aquamarine]

60 minutes had no business putting him on the show
(and hence giving him free advertising). He was fined and reprimanded for performing hundreds of unnecessary tongue tie surgeries on boys while he was circumcising them (while simultaneously deceiving parents).

What happened here? Did he do these procedures without asking the parents?

[Fuchsia!]

imo opinion i would never have my sons do it. I don't like it and nothing will ever change my mind. It has to hurt them otherwise they wouldn't cry. I think they need to find a more humane way of doing it.

[stellarella]

Just because a child cant speak and put his pain into words it doesnt mean he isn't suffering.

We often hear that babies don't feel the pain of circumcision however it is purely because they cant express it like we do.

And even when they cry and scream during and after the procedure (their ONLY means of communicating) their parents still say "Oh, it isnt hurting him"...What more evidence do you need??

And just because a child may not remember it doesnt mean its OK to inflict that kind of pain. I am horrified, stunned and totally baffled as to why a parent who loves their child to bits would allow them to experience that kind of pain and suffering. Our job is to protect our children.

:crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:

[Fuchsia!]

And just because a child may not remember it doesnt mean its OK to inflict that kind of pain. I am horrified, stunned and totally baffled as to why a parent who loves their child to bits would allow them to experience that kind of pain and suffering. Our job is to protect our children.

:crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:

Exactly, i totally agree.

[talia11]

Just because a child cant speak and put his pain into words it doesnt mean he isn't suffering.

We often hear that babies don't feel the pain of circumcision however it is purely because they cant express it like we do.

And even when they cry and scream during and after the procedure (their ONLY means of communicating) their parents still say "Oh, it isnt hurting him"...WTF!! What more evidence do you need??

And just because a child may not remember it doesnt mean its OK to inflict that kind of pain. I am horrified, stunned and totally baffled as to why a parent who loves their child to bits would allow them to experience that kind of pain and suffering. Our job is to protect our children.

:crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:


so would you say (and I am asking this question purely to get a different perspective and not to cause an arguement ) but if a pains a child to get immunisation shots - irrespective of the benefits medically of it - that a child should not have to experience that pain and suffering?

[Aquamarine]

so would you say (and I am asking this question purely to get a different perspective and not to cause an arguement ) but if a pains a child to get immunisation shots - irrespective of the benefits medically of it - that a child should not have to experience that pain and suffering?

A needle ***** is a bit different to that.

[Fuchsia!]

so would you say (and I am asking this question purely to get a different perspective and not to cause an arguement ) but if a pains a child to get immunisation shots - irrespective of the benefits medically of it - that a child should not have to experience that pain and suffering?

imo i don't think you can compare immunisation to circumcision. The pain from a shot is nothing compared to someone slicing your foreskin off and you also don't have faeces and urine splashing on it all the time either. And we as adults can handle the pain of a needle but do you think you could handle someone slicing you? But that is what my thoughts are anyway

[stellarella]

so would you say (and I am asking this question purely to get a different perspective and not to cause an arguement ) but if a pains a child to get immunisation shots - irrespective of the benefits medically of it - that a child should not have to experience that pain and suffering?

They are totally different types of pain and degrees of pain therefore thay cannot and should not be compared....

And although I dont immunise I must concede that the benefits of immunising vs not immunising compared to circumcising vs not circumcising are completely different.

There is absolutely no reason to circumcise if other extremely simple measures are taken with regard to hygiene. Simply washing the penis correctly is enough to keep infection at bay. Very simple and pain free.

[KarniF00l]

I wanted to jump into my TV screen and throttle Brian Morris :banghead: He frustrates the hell out of me.

I liked what Dr. George Williams had to say. :thumbsup:

[forbetoel]

A needle...a scalpel....not really comparable.
The benifits of circumsission...the benifits of immunising.....NOT comparable. :no:

[talia11]

They are totally different types of pain and degrees of pain therefore thay cannot and should not be compared....

And although I dont immunise I must concede that the benefits of immunising vs not immunising compared to circumcising vs not circumcising are completely different.

There is absolutely no reason to circumcise if other extremely simple measures are taken with regard to hygiene. Simply washing the penis correctly is enough to keep infection at bay. Very simple and pain free.


Fair enough.....good points....

[mumx3littlies]

Just because a child cant speak and put his pain into words it doesnt mean he isn't suffering.

We often hear that babies don't feel the pain of circumcision however it is purely because they cant express it like we do.

And even when they cry and scream during and after the procedure (their ONLY means of communicating) their parents still say "Oh, it isnt hurting him"...WTF!! What more evidence do you need??

And just because a child may not remember it doesnt mean its OK to inflict that kind of pain. I am horrified, stunned and totally baffled as to why a parent who loves their child to bits would allow them to experience that kind of pain and suffering. Our job is to protect our children.

:crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:
I so agree with you here. I think that alot of parents say it doesnt hurt the baby etc cos they are too ashamed to admit that it does hurt the baby and yet they still allow the procedure to be done as a 'routine' thing.

[Blueberry Crumble]

That Dr. was so for the procedure, but he didnt REALLY explain why he was so for it, or the benefits.

[ShadyCharacter]

Oh, and out of interest sake, I asked my DP during the segment if his father is circ'd.... funnily enough, he had no idea :rolleyes:

Assuming his father probably is (given his age), I wonder how much it has disturbed DP emotionally not to look like his Dad? ;)

[Phyllis Stein]

I can personally attest to the fact that early pain is remembered, just differently to when you're older.

I think it is much, much worse to inflict unnecessary pain/ suffering on a baby, who has no capacity to understand it at the time - older people can rationalise why the pain is happening & feel a greater sense of control over it, thus it doesn't affect their sense of security or wellbeing as much, if at all. Babies are completely dependent, cannot understand or rationalise the pain, and IMO, their sense of security and safety can be jeopardised.

Just an example from personal experience. I broke my leg badly as a very young toddler, the hospital staff were setting it & it was agony. I remember looking at my mum & wondering why she wasn't stopping them from hurting me. I felt so let down by her. I had no ability to rationalise the pain I was feeling at all, so it impacted on my broader sense of wellbeing. That experience was traumatic but unavoidable.
Why would anyone deliberately & unnecessarily inflict pain on a helpless child?

[Pippi Longstocking]

I didn't watch the show but I read the transcript.

Hmm...my opinion...everything Stellarella said. Less infractions that way! :D

[Pippi Longstocking]

I argue that against th 'remembering pain' side as i honestly know my son didnt experience. He may be one out of many that wasnt hurt but, just putting my side out there too.
I wouldnt say I dont think it hurt him if it did...

Not to be argumentative, but out of curiosity - how do you "honestly know" that your son didn't experience any pain? I think the only way you could honestly know is if you had cortisol testing done before, during and after the procedure as well as monitoring of other stress-related body changes.
And do you mean he didn't feel any pain at all related to the procedure? Not even after it when he urinated on to an open wound?

[nemosmum]

Can someone please tell me what the Temptation guy said/did? I missed the show. Was he being a loser?

He was just all cheesy grins and making light of it all
saying he wants to get his son done so he can look like him
I just dont like the fact that he took it so flippantly is that a word? well you will get my meaning
I really think circumcision is a serious issue not something to make jest about



Oh, and out of interest sake, I asked my DP during the segment if his father is circ'd.... funnily enough, he had no idea :rolleyes:

Assuming his father probably is (given his age), I wonder how much it has disturbed DP emotionally not to look like his Dad? ;)

:yelclap:


I have to say that after seeing what my son went through I would never ever do it again
I wish I could turn back time but I cant BUT I can tell people about my experience in the hopes that they make a more informed decision

It wasnt just the pain of watching my son being traumatised and harmed , it wasnt the amount of suffering inflicted upon him , it wasnt the week long pain he suffered afterwards
its the fact that we payed someone to do this to our beautiful perfect lil baby
why why why why is all I keep asking myself
I seriously could not look at my sons penis for months afterwards I was too ashamed I would literally close my eyes to clean his nappy

Still to this day (three years later) I have moments of overwhelming guilt
people can say all they want that my son doesnt remember this experience and that I should just get over it
BUT I cant and I probably wont ever
I had no right to do it, it was his lil body not mine


sorry im just a mess after watching it last night

[Gumby]

He was just all cheesy grins and making light of it all
saying he wants to get his son done so he can look like him
I just dont like the fact that he took it so flippantly is that a word? well you will get my meaning
I really think circumcision is a serious issue not something to make jest about




:yelclap:


I have to say that after seeing what my son went through I would never ever do it again
I wish I could turn back time but I cant BUT I can tell people about my experience in the hopes that they make a more informed decision

It wasnt just the pain of watching my son being traumatised and harmed , it wasnt the amount of suffering inflicted upon him , it wasnt the week long pain he suffered afterwards
its the fact that we payed someone to do this to our beautiful perfect lil baby
why why why why is all I keep asking myself
I seriously could not look at my sons penis for months afterwards I was too ashamed I would literally close my eyes to clean his nappy

Still to this day (three years later) I have moments of overwhelming guilt
people can say all they want that my son doesnt remember this experience and that I should just get over it
BUT I cant and I probably wont ever
I had no right to do it, it was his lil body not mine


sorry im just a mess after watching it last night
:hugs: to you

[nemosmum]

Thanks Gumby

BUT I dont want people to read my post and think "poor you"
coz Im not the one who got physically harmed

I just want people to realise that this is a very serious issue and once done thats it theres no going back

I think in the case of the mother with the child who constantly had infections and was in alot of pain then yeah circumsion is a good idea
who wants their son in all that pain constantly etc etc

BUT its not something to do off the cuff iykwim

sorry im rambling blah blah blah

[Aquamarine]

My hubby was circ'd at 9 years of age and says it was the most painful and awful thing. He remembers the pain and that was over 20 years ago.

[Rainbowbrite]

Not to be argumentative, but out of curiosity - how do you "honestly know" that your son didn't experience any pain? I think the only way you could honestly know is if you had cortisol testing done before, during and after the procedure as well as monitoring of other stress-related body changes.
And do you mean he didn't feel any pain at all related to the procedure? Not even after it when he urinated on to an open wound?

You would think that a 3yr old is able of verbalising if he is in pain. I know that my 2yr old is more than capable of telling me if something is/does hurt her.

[stellarella]

Oh, and out of interest sake, I asked my DP during the segment if his father is circ'd.... funnily enough, he had no idea :rolleyes:

Assuming his father probably is (given his age), I wonder how much it has disturbed DP emotionally not to look like his Dad? ;)

I asked my DP if his dad was circed. He too had no idea.

I have no idea if my father is circed either. I am guessing yes considering who his mother is :rolleyes: however its not really something children are interested in...whether their father is circumcised. Bit of a funny reason to circumcise if you ask me.

[ThisIsLiving]

Thanks Gumby

BUT I dont want people to read my post and think "poor you"
coz Im not the one who got physically harmed

I just want people to realise that this is a very serious issue and once done thats it theres no going back

I think in the case of the mother with the child who constantly had infections and was in alot of pain then yeah circumsion is a good idea
who wants their son in all that pain constantly etc etc

BUT its not something to do off the cuff iykwim

sorry im rambling blah blah blah

Thanks for your message NemosMum. DH and I opted to not get our DS circumsized, and at times I wonder if I have done the right thing (I would feel so dreadful if DS had to be circumsized at an older age due to infections etc). After watching the 60 Minutes program last night I once again doubt my decision. My DH turned to me and said that atleast we can still opt to get DS done in the future if need be, or if he chooses to once an adult then he can, but once its off there is no going back like NemosMum said. Its such a tough decision. As if there isn't enough to worry about when giving birth and bringing home a newborn, let alone the great old-age debate about whether to circ or not. We all just want what's best for our baby boys.

[nemosmum]

Thanks hun your post made me smile




I agree with RB....a three yr old would def. be able to express pain my son wouldnt be able to hold it in LOL he cries over the smalled bump let alone something like that

:)

[Milliner]

Nemosmum - Thank you for sharing your story with us. :hugs:

[nut]

You would think that a 3yr old is able of verbalising if he is in pain. I know that my 2yr old is more than capable of telling me if something is/does hurt her.
But the thing is with a 3 yo is that they are old enough to know that the penis is a very special and private area. And they are old enough to feel shame. So, a three year old may be less likely to be straightforward about how much pain they have due to feeling embarrassed. It isn't like just falling over and skinning your knee.:gloomy:

And, well said on everything in this thread Stellarella. I completely agree:) . What complete hogwash that not remembering pain makes it OK. That just baffles me.:no:

[Milliner]

Every reasons for RIC baffles me. :shame:

[Rainbowbrite]

Regardless of it being a special area, a child should also be aware that they can & should tell mummy & or daddy that something hurts etc. Same as if someone is to touch their "special area" they should know that they have to tell their parent.

[Mamaduke]

Even though I was interested in seeing it I couldn't watch this being done to one of my sons nor anyone else's son.
From what I've read I'm glad I gave it a miss.

'The guy from Temptation' - are you talking about the host of the game show Ed Philips?:confused:

[Kizmet]

But the thing is with a 3 yo is that they are old enough to know that the penis is a very special and private area. And they are old enough to feel shame. So, a three year old may be less likely to be straightforward about how much pain they have due to feeling embarrassed. It isn't like just falling over and skinning your knee.:gloomy:


I for one will teach my children that their genitals are a special and personal area but NOT to feel shame about them. I want my children to be able to tell me about everything

[Aquamarine]

Even though I was interested in seeing it I couldn't watch this being done to one of my sons nor anyone else's son.
From what I've read I'm glad I gave it a miss.

'The guy from Temptation' - are you talking about the host of the game show Ed Philips?:confused:

I wish I didn't watch it mamaduke. I couldn't stop thinking about it all night.:crying:

And yes Ed Philips from Temptation.

[andrewJ]

I would feel so dreadful if DS had to be circumsized at an older age due to infections etc.

why?

when i was younger, had a tooth taken out. I dont resent my parents for not removing it to prevent it from getting infected in the first place, and saving me quite a bit of pain.

One of my friends had an ingrowing toenail that needed surgery. he does not think his parents were foolish for not cutting off his toe when he was a baby, when he wouldnt remember it.

i even know one guy who has had both testicles removed due to cancer. I promise you that he does wish they had just chopped them off at birth. Perhaps they could just chop one off, and cut the risk by 50%?


removing healthy bodyparts just isnt something we do, APART from with the foreskin, and for all the years i have been looking for an answer, i still have ZERO idea how this can make sense to anyone.

I have an ear infection right now. I went to the doctor, and it is being sorted.
if a bodypart causes a problem...sort it out.
Does "cut it off just in case" make sense for any other bodypart?

[pebilz]

Does "cut it off just in case" make sense for any other bodypart?

:yelclap: :yelclap: :yelclap: :yelclap:

Truer words have never been said!

[nut]

Regardless of it being a special area, a child should also be aware that they can & should tell mummy & or daddy that something hurts etc. Same as if someone is to touch their "special area" they should know that they have to tell their parent.


I for one will teach my children that their genitals are a special and personal area but NOT to feel shame about them. I want my children to be able to tell me about everything
Yes, of course you do but the thing about kids is that they are little people and they don't always do what we want or expect them to do. They have their own self-regulated guages of shame and freedom etc etc.



Just raising it as something to think about.:yes:

[Lozie]

I watched and it didnt change my opinions at all, having boys i would never do it, if later in life they chose to have it done i would support them but i couldnt put my child thru that from what i seen of the baby who had it done he was in pain his cry made me wanna cry poor bubba, as for Ed he was being stupid just wanted to have his son done cause he was:rolleyes: if it is medically needed then i'm all for it but not just for the sake of doing it the foreskin is there for a reason, and could you see Ed's make-up I had a giggle about that too:yes:

[Milliner]

Not sure if I can post this, but did anyone go onto the 60 mins webiste after the show? That professor was an id!ot.

[sunnyflower]

Oh and by the way to all those who are questioning why a small child who is in pain wouldn't verbalise it,i am a registered nurse and have often worked with surgical patients.A lot of these people are in extreme pain and don't neccessarily verbalise it .Why?A number of possible reasons,shock,trying to be brave,not wanting to bother you ,embarrasement.Patients in pain can even go to sleep despite the pain.Thats why we use pain scales with patients to fully assess the pain levels.

[stellarella]

Ok on the topic of the pain of circumcision.

Who had a tear or an episiotomy after their birth??

Think of that kind of pain on a tiny baby. Think of that kind of pain and then compare it to an immunisation needle :rolleyes:

[bigglet]

I'm one of those parents who are neither pro nor against and with all this debate going on I find it is the anti group who tends to be a bit more aggressive about this topic!

I have friends and family members who are both intact and circ'd and what makes it hard is that neither party really cares - those who are circ'd are neither for nor against it themselves, they can't remember the pain and they can't remember life with a foreskin to compare their sex contentedness or whatever....

And anyway whenever I seem to ask the male population about "looking like dad" etc most of them reply that they never looked at dad's bits anyway and heaven forbid if they got caught looking at a mate's bits too! haha....

I just feel for the mother (was it Tori) from the segment - that is my fear too - having her 5 year old son circumsized later in life due to an infection and the poor son remembering it all. No parent would want that on their child and I don't think any parent who circ'd their child did so just to inflict pain.

[pookiesossige]

Not sure if I can post this, but did anyone go onto the 60 mins webiste after the show? That professor was an id!ot.

Yes, my DH did. Yep, he was a TOTAL idiot.

[Milliner]

Pookie - I tried to ask him questions, but surprise surprise he wouldn't answer me. He was giving out false information and couldn't back up his claims. :rolleyes: like much of the pro camp.

[pookiesossige]

Oh and by the way to all those who are questioning why a small child who is in pain wouldn't verbalise it,i am a registered nurse and have often worked with surgical patients.A lot of these people are in extreme pain and don't neccessarily verbalise it .Why?A number of possible reasons,shock,trying to be brave,not wanting to bother you ,embarrasement.Patients in pain can even go to sleep despite the pain.Thats why we use pain scales with patients to fully assess the pain levels.


Not necessarily agreeing with the parts of your post I left out- but regarding this paragraph: I'm glad you mentioned this.

Because I keep hearing the following:

"He slept through the whole thing"
"He didn't even cry"

Babies have an involuntary mechanism in which they attempt to 'shut off' extreme pain by withdrawing totally- often into deep sleep or silence.

That's so sad. :crying:

[TwoBlue]

Closed for cleaning