View Full Version : Doulas, its time to be heard... this is appalling about Doulas...
Push against home births
The government and opposition have joined together in a rare collaboration to warn against the universal acceptance of home birthing.
Both Health Minister John Hill and his shadow Vickie Chapman say women have the right to choose home births in SA, and that there are circumstances which make the practice dangerous and possibly life-threatening.But the two front-benchers strongly disagree whether home birthing is being encouraged by the closure of obstetric services in state hospitals.
"Already the Queen Victoria Hospital has closed and its services transferred to the Women's and Children's without expanding the number of beds," Ms Chapman said.
"In 2004 the maternity ward was closed at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital, the Flinders Medical Centre is in dire trouble, there haven't been obstetric services at the Royal Adelaide Hospital for years, and now the government has announced it is closing Modbury obstetrics next year.
"If you became pregnant today you couldn't have a baby there.
"The situation in South Australia is starting to resemble the joke that if you want a bed in a maternity ward, you have to book 10 months ahead."
The Opposition believes the government is encouraging women to give birth at home by limiting the number of hospitals which offer obstetrics, a move Ms Chapman believes to be potentially dangerous.
The Minister strenuously denies the claim. "There are a number of women who want to have home births and the department has decided that if people are going to have home births then there should be a policy around it to make it as safe as it can possibly be," Mr Hill said.
"We're trying to have some rules, recommendations and guidelines in place so we can maximise the health and safety of the mother and the baby."
In 1907 -- exactly 100 years ago -- 98 per cent of all babies were born at home. Infant mortality was high and so was the number of women who died without medical help.
"If the government wants to turn back the clock closing obstetric services is the way to do it," Ms Chapman said.
"Hospitals in regional areas have already closed maternity wards. We don't believe every country town should have obstetrics, but every region certainly should."
Both government and opposition worry that home birthing is increasingly seen as a way that expectant mothers can have a greater say about the experience, but that this increase isn't matched by the number of properly trained 'birth attendants'.
In Adelaide a number of women offer their services, for a fee, to attend home births as 'doulas', assistants who give mothers emotional, but not trained medical, support. "The first question you may have is, 'do I really have what it takes to become a doula?' The answer is an emphatic yes!" trumpets one of dozens of Australian doula-training outfits.
One runs a five-day 'women's mysteries retreat' which costs participants $1150. The accommodation is in an 8-bed dormitory (BYO bedding). Many completely unaccredited 'colleges' offer 'certificates' which are worth much more than the paper they're written on -- they're worth thousands of dollars in profit to the 'colleges'.
The "International College of Spiritual Midwifery" advertises on the Internet without revealing where its "international college" is physically located, and its contact details are an e-mail address and some Victorian and Tasmanian phone numbers.
One of its recommended books -- which it has for sale in its on-line bookstore -- advocates leaving the umbilical cord uncut so that the baby remains attached to the placenta until the cord separates at the navel 10 days after the birth.
Doulas currently advertising their services for home births in Adelaide include a woman in Lockleys whose experience includes 'studying to gain certification in christian childbirth', a Mt Barker woman who trained at Childbirth
International, an overseas outfit which charges $500 for a course (Visa, MasterCard, and American Express accepted), and a Victor Harbor doula who is an ex-Optimum Birth student. Optimum Birth is another largely Internet-orientated business -- you simply enroll on-line.
Mr Hill agrees that home birth attendants need neither formal academic qualification nor training, although many people offering their services give the impression they have both.
"This whole issue really worries me and in fact I have encouraged one of my colleagues, Trish White, to put (it) to the Parliament, which she has done," Mr Hill told the Independent Weekly in an interview on Leon Byner's 5AA program.
"One of our standing committees can look at the whole issue of people who say that they've got particular skills.
"I have heard of some terrible examples of people providing therapy, allegedly to people who've got cancer, and it's just absolutely nonsense. I think we do need to have a much tighter regulatory framework for people who purport to give advice, medical advice, but at the moment there's a lot of loopholes," Mr Hill said.
Last month, SA coroner Mark Johns released his findings into the death of a baby during a home birth three years ago. It was an underwater delivery made in the presence of two qualified midwives. The coroner found the parents decided on an underwater home birth based on their own research and on proper medical advice. The baby died from lack of oxygen. He found no-one was at fault.
"There's no law which says women have to go to hospital to have a baby," Ms Chapman says. "They can legally have it in the bath, behind the bush if they want. We don't oppose that. We're simply saying that a qualified obstetrician, anaesthetist, midwife, and nurses must be available close by in case things go wrong."
But Ms Chapman says the closure of so many hospital maternity services is making home birthing a de facto option of choice.
"There's just no parking at Lyle McEwin Hospital, and no easy public cross-town public transport. The Women's and Children's hospital is a war zone. The government has a lot to answer for."
Meanwhile, debate about the safety of home births, rather than about the right of a woman to have a home birth, continues among women's groups, health professionals, and medical researchers.
The Woman's and Children's Hospital's Midwifery Group Practice acknowledges there are risks and benefits to giving birth in any location.
"Choosing to have a baby at home or in hospital means the acceptance of certain risks, which may be life-threatening. It is important that women considering their childbirth options become as informed as possible in order to weigh the benefits and risks and to make appropriate decisions," it advises.
A study by consumer advocate Hilda Bastian, professor Marc Keirse, and associate professor Paul Lancaster at Flinders University into perinatal death associated with planned home birth in Australia, had the following key messages:
- The death rate in Australian home births was higher than comparable births nationally and home births in other countries
- The higher perinatal death rate in Australian home births was due to the inclusion of predictably high risk births and prolonged asphyxia during labour
-While home birth for low risk women can compare favourably with hospital birth, high risk home birth is inadvisable and experimental.
Modbury Hospital closes its maternity ward in February next year. "After that, there'll be no public obstetric hospital services in the eastern suburbs, north-western Adelaide, or in the west," Ms Chapman said. It's not all bad news. The doula colleges are just a click of the mouse away.
-- Hendrik Gout
I encourage all of you respond to this as Doulas…..
I have written to Hendrik at firstname.lastname@example.org
Gosh that article made me mad. Boiling blood I tell you.
Just sending my two cents off now! :thumbsup:
Dear Sir / Madam,
I am writing to complain about the inaccurate and highly irresponsible writing passed as 'journalism' by Hendrik Gout.
He has tangled together a mish-mash or garbled facts that in no way resemble truth or reality.
He has done a sloppy and shoddy job in not researching the facts correctly. If he had done his due diligence, he would have found that doulas do not replace a woman's chosen care providers, but provide emotional, physical and informational support only. They do not replace medical care givers. They do not do the job of obstetricians or midwives in hospitals and birth centres. Likewise, they do not do the job of Independent Midwives when they attend homebirths. A highly skilled, trained midwife does all clinical care at a homebirth. If a doula should be invited, she is there purely in a role of comforting, encouraging, coaching and supporting the mother. They do no clinical skills at all, and do not comment on or judge the clinical care a woman receives from her care-providers.
To witch-hunt doulas as poorly trained homebirth attendants is rubbishy, sensational journalims at its worst, creating drama from twisted facts to create unnecessary controversy and anxiety.
More and more women in Australia will choose homebirth as our current system does not provide continuity, is medicalised, impersonal and institutionalized, is causing high rates of birth trauma, and involves the ludicrous situation of labouring women travelling long distances by car to reach what is supposed to be superior care in hospitals.
When women realise that as an alternative, they can interview and choose their own midwives themselves, enjoy continuity of care right through pregnancy, birth and post-partum (which is shown to result in greatly improved peri-natal safety stats) stay home and get into their birth pool, call their midwives to come, and enjoy the comfort of their own doula, more and more will choose to invest their Baby Bonus in this way.
The practice of 'Lotus Birth' is also likely to increase, particularly as scientific resaerch is showing that the common practice of cutting the cord too soon after birth increases risks for the baby. No matter what ridiculous spin you put on it, due to crass ignorance, people will ultimately choose soundly evidence-based practice over the fear-mongering that passes for Obsteric care in many quarters.
If you wish to stop the increasing swing towards homebirth with a Private Midwife, maternity services in Australia must be totally overhauled. Start with affirming Midwives as autonomous professionals with their own Medicare Provider numbers. Start with full Government-funding for homebirth. Provide continuity of care for women with a known, self-chosen midwife. When maternity services in Australia are women-centered and woman-led, then you will see the swing towards homebirth balance out. Until then, you will see women choosing what is good for them. Clearly this is something Gout regards with some contempt - but what would you prefer? An 80% caesarian rate like Brazil? Or a 40% homebirth rate like Sweden & Norway? Go compare the stats.
Most women hire doulas to support them not at homebirths, but at hospital and birth centres, and the company of their doula may well be the only continuity afforded to them throughout their birth experience.
Hendrik Gout is no doubt aware that his facts are skewed, but his apparent disinterest in presenting truth or accuracy is merely another manifestation of the kind of dismissive contempt that is responsible for endemic levels of birth trauma, distress and dissatisfaction with maternity services felt by so many Australian women.
Good on you Kelly for bringing this to our attention.
Silly w&nker! Is it not hard enough to explain to people about a doula's role without this knob head beating us down! Argh!
This is what I sent, I hope they read it, I hope I came across properly because i'm furious:mad:
To whom it may concern,
Have you looked into the training Doula's do, to get their certification? You have tried to diminish the role we play in helping women make informed choices, to feel comfortable that we have had enough training to "look" out for them during this vunerable time.
I am training to be a Doula, and I'm doing it full time. Would you like to come see the study manuals I have? How much work is involved? Home many tests there are? Have you tried to find women you can accompany to their births to get certified? Its very easy for you to make judgements, when you haven't looked into each individual course. Does this mean that every course with Thomson Direct is invalid also? Because it is done off campus? Does this mean the Midwife course done at Uni doesn't count, because its predominately done online when you are studying externally?
Please get your facts straight before you rubbish women who are standing up for WOMEN...its very irrisponsible of you!!!
VERY PROUD Doula in training with Childbirth International.
what rot, it too makes my blood boil
but those that are having babies who want the best that birth can offer them will hopefully look up more about what a doula actually is and make an informed choice which is what we endorse.
thanks for posting this article
I'm not a doula but i fully support what you guys do and am sending him my 2cents worth! :mad:
Julie Doula, brilliantly said! Yay you.
On the bright side, any one with even half a firing neuron would be able to see that "article" for what it was - a load of unreferenced un-researched deliberately mis-leading anti-woman bollocks.
I love it, Guv'nor. You said in one sentence what it took me a page to say.
I'm a certified doula with DONA International. They're the largest doula organisation in the world. I'm also a member of Australian Doulas in Perth. I've sent Mr Gouts offending article to them, along with the great response written by Julie Doula and Mr Gouts email address. I'm sure they'd welcome the opportunity to address his incorrect statements!
I'll let you know what happens!
OK first off, I think that article was appalling!!
However, I briefly looked into doula training, and was actually put off by how brief the courses appeared to be. I'm feeling a bit more reassured reading some of the posts in this thread, but at the time I was quite astounded how quickly it seemed you could gain the qualification.
I do understand there are a lot of different organisations out there offering courses, and content does very widely, but that in itself must be a concern??
Sorry for hijacking, but there definitely do seem to be quite varying qualities of doulas out there.
To continue the hijack:
However, I briefly looked into doula training, and was actually put off by how brief the courses appeared to be. I'm feeling a bit more reassured reading some of the posts in this thread, but at the time I was quite astounded how quickly it seemed you could gain the qualification.
I think to some extent you may be right AM. It really is a case of hand over your credit card
and you can call yourself a doula. In reality, you don't even need to do a course. You could simply start advertising as a doula - there is no one to stop you.
Doulas are self regulating, and while that has +ve and -ve aspects, it is up to each of us to make sure we are well read and informed and that we continue to read and educate ourselves once the 'formal' training is complete. Personally, I would like to see the online courses offer more mentoring for their candidates, perhaps requiring birth attendance with a skilled doula.
I must stress, I mean no disrespect to the doulas who have completed online courses - I am just trying to point out that it is really up to the individual as to how much you actually learn regardless of where you trained. All the certification in the world means nothing if you aren't dedicated to woman-centred birth.
I think it is important for women choosing a doula to be aware of this and to seek out someone who shares their philosophy of birth and whose level of experience makes them comfortable.
Doulas are filling an old traditional role in some ways, in that we are the 'women of the tribe' that would have attended a birthing woman in days gone by. As such, anyone who has birthed a babe is qualified.
Ultimately, it is about trust. You instinctively know who you want to be present as you bring your baby into the world.
i agree with what you said about mentoring, it would be great to have some experienced doula come in and help train us. i have posted on another site for trained doula to mentor me but have not had any response yet. i was a little skeptical about handing over money to "buy" a certificate but have since changed that view, those that are truly motivated to be the best birth attendant they can be will seek out information that will educate them on their path to learn. it doesnt stop once you are qualified, a dedicated professional will continue to learn through being informed so that her client will benefit.
Wow i agree what a total load of rubbish and many other words which i am not allowed to post.
Great response Julie Doula and Moonblossom, this is the cr$p that woman have to deal with when making such very important choices regarding their care. As another doula in training with optimum birth i feel very angry at the bashing it received in the article.
AM i also am a little worried about some people who claim to be doulas who peddle misinformation to woman. Who don't see the birthing climate in australia for what it really is.
DONA in North America is further along the track with doula regulation that we are. We're catching up - Doulas Australia is in the pipeline.
We are self-regulating for now. I would hope that most women drawn to this kind of work are doing it because they sincerely want to make a difference to helping women have a more positive birth experience. And realise they are not going to make money doing it! But do it from the heart, as a labour or love, because they care.
I am a registered professional, I trained as a Registered Comprehensive Nurse in New Zealand and I understand what it is to be a certified professional in a field.
Doula work is quite different to that. Because we are about emotional support & comfort techniques, I think we compare more to a life-coach or personal trainer than a professional or para-professional.
It is very much a case of consumer beware - and I would say the same when shopping for life coaches, personal trainers, massage therapists, weight loss programmes, therapy, hypno-therapy, alternative health practitioners, mechanics, plumbers, carpenters, nannies, child care centres, financial advisors, real estate personnel, who you choose to be the PM of your state or country ....
I think the experience and testimony of women who have hired a doula and found it helpful is going to be the strongest argument in favour of the growing movement. No one has to have a doula if they don't want to.
Doula learning is life-long learning and whatever outward regulations that may be put in place will not deter sincere doulas, and will not take the place of continuing learning and study and experience that is essential to this kind of art.
I think we also need to be on guard and expect that any options apart from a highly obstetric, technologized approach to birth, are likely to be hounded and discredited by the people with the most power and money to lose and the least personal involvement, being non-birthers. It's no great shock to me that home birth and doulas - two options that increasing numbers of women are finding less traumatic and more comforting, are being trashed here (in Gout's article). I would expect to see practices such as water birth likewise coming under fire. (No one makes money when a woman chooses a pool over drugs or epidural). Let's not allow intimidation to prevent us from demanding what we really need and want.
:smiliedance:Julie Doula great post and so very true:smiliedance:
I have shot off a letter and also tomorrow I will be sending out a media release on behalf of Doula Australia, a new organisation for all Doulas to help us with regulation and many other things. We are working closely with Doula UK who have been there and done that. Watch this space!
Here's my media release, just sent it out for immediate release through a media company. Fingers crossed hey!
Calls For Calm Over Unqualified Attendants At Birth
Melbourne 20 August 2007
Founders of Doula Australia, Kelly Zantey and Lisa Chalmers, are calling for calm after recent radio and press attacks condemning the work and qualifications of birth attendants, also known as doulas.
Doulas are trained in professional birth support and provide non-medical assistance to pregnant women and their partners. They offer continuity of support during pregnancy, birth and in the post-natal period - but they never claim to be a substitute for medically trained midwives or doctors.
“The recent attacks and mockery of doulas occurred during discussions over the closure of an obstetric unit in South Australia, and it’s been completely blown out of proportion,” Mrs. Zantey said. “Hysteria has been created due to the absurd suggestions that women will now flock to non-medically trained birth attendants and have homebirths, which is ridiculous. Most of the women I support aren’t even comfortable having a homebirth with a qualified midwife, let alone a non-medically trained doula. They want to be in a hospital.”
Mrs. Zantey believes that doulas have been used as a scapegoat in order to serve as an ultimate distraction. “The serious question not being asked is: 'What is the real reason for the closure of birth services? Is it government policy, or the departure of obstetricians from the public sector to the more lucrative private sector, or a combination of both?”
There is a serious lack of understanding about what doulas do and the benefits they offer. Around 16 studies from around the world have produced similar results, for example, in studies by Kennell J, Klaus PH and Klaus MH, women who have doulas present at birth have 50% less caesareans, have greater breastfeeding success and less post-natal depression to name a few.
“Doulas ought to be recommended and promoted by our overstretched and under-funded medical system. They could save hospitals and taxpayers a great deal of money with the reduction of interventions, which is great news for everyone,” says Mrs. Zantey. “If there are complications, we are grateful for the skills and facilities available in hospital. But the fact remains that vast majority of doulas would absolutely not agree to attend a homebirth without a midwife or doctor present, and we take this very seriously. We don’t appreciate our livelihood made to be a joke in exchange for political gain.”
“If the government is genuinely concerned about inappropriately trained women at homebirth, then they should provide a rescue package in order for private midwives to at least obtain insurance, just like the government has done for obstetricians. Medicare funding and provider numbers will also be a great step towards more trained midwives at homebirth, but this has been long avoided and dismissed. Despite the potential for increased homebirth safety, reducing the demand on our broken maternity system and saving many more taxpayers dollars, the discrimination against private midwives has continued. They deserve insurance and medicare provider numbers, but clearly the government is not that concerned about homebirth safety.”
For the record on homebirth safety, in a study (C1992 by Institute for Social and Preventive Medicine of the University of Basle, Switzerland) of home versus hospital deliveries, they conclude, "a follow up study of matched pairs for procedures and outcome (concluded that) healthy, low risk women who wish to deliver at home have no increased risk either to themselves or to their babies.”
Mrs. Zantey hopes that with the recent formation of Doula Australia, the myths about doulas will soon be dispelled. “At present, doulas are mostly unheard of, but they have been around since the beginning of time and are very passionate about birth. With much positive word of mouth, the demand for doulas is increasing in a big way. There’s very little continuity of care going on in hospitals so couples are paying for their own birth support. Sad, but true.”
Doula Australia plans to educate the population about doulas, and to assist doulas to work in unity with midwives and doctors – not replace them.
Contact: Kelly Zantey
20 August 2007
Ph: +61 3 9804 0488
Well, one good thing I guess, my email was answered, in a MASS ANSWER sort of way.
I've been thinking long and hard about this damning of Doula's. Why is it whenever women unite to take care of each other, they are downtrodden, and not acknowledged for what they are trying to do?
We are not a threat to anyone, all we want to do is empower women to make informed pregnancy and birth choices. We are not a threat to Midwifes, who unfortunately are so busy doing all sorts of hospital work, they cannot stay with a laboring woman, we are no threat to doctors, for obvious reasons, every single one of US has a valid reason for wanting women to have a good, positive INFORMED birth.
If there was a university I could attend to become a qualified Doula, I would attend. But alas there isn't, so what are we to do? What we do is what we are doing, studying hard usually from home, becoming informed ourselves, and follow our life's destiny, which is to support WOMEN.
If this has done anything, it has given me even more determination to educate people about what Doula's do.
I'm GOING to be a DOULA, and I'm going to be a damn good one!!!
You go, Moonblossom!:smiliedance:
I think you nailed it here:
Why is it whenever women unite to take care of each other, they are downtrodden, and not acknowledged for what they are trying to do?
Both myself and Julie have been in touch with Hendrik on the phone several times the last few days. We spoke just this morning actually.
He's very upset with the tone of the emails and what he's seen online here too (people calling him a w@nk3r, d**khead and all that stuff...) so this has really not helped at all.
He actually received a lovely email from someone inviting him to a Doula training session, so whoever did it, that was great stuff - he was going to say yes, but he's been so upset being flooded with very rude emails, he doesn’t want to go.
I tried my best, I told him now is the best time to go so he can see we are not all crass talking women, and explained the anger and frustration of it all in great detail.
So I can't stress enough, please be constructive, firm but also polite when you complain. He sounds like he has some interest in this, and he even said he'd put stuff away and revisit it when everyone has calmed down. But at the moment he has a very bad impression of Doulas and is sick of reading our emails (because they are so rude).
I know how it feels to get really hot under the collar and peed off with garbage like was published, but it's important we remain objective. Anyway, tis all I will say, and I am getting cracking with the policies for Doula Australia even more quickly now. Once we have some serious guidelines in place perhaps we will get taken more seriously.
:o I must say that it wasnt untill reading this thread here that I actually found out what a Doula was! Sorry Ladies:o
But in saying that, people in the same boat as me who read the above article will think of them in a negative way without really knowing what you ladies do!
I am sick of one sided, ignorant reporting!
Throwing stones in a glass house will not get good results. The article was unfounded, and I hope some wisdom unfolds in it's aftermath.
I wrote the following email:
I write to ask that you please respect the very important role that the doula plays in society. There is nothing more important than birth, and there is no one more passionate about birth than the doula, who, even when certified, spends her spare time learning for the sake of being able to support a woman to the very best of her ability.
We are not midwives, and we never act in a medical role - that would go against the role of the doula, which is to give emotional and physical support to a mother and her family, as well as un-biased information through text and statistical evidence. We support ALL birthing mothers, whether they are birthing in a private hospital, public hospital, birth centre, or home. We support women undergoing planned or emergency caesarean, women who are induced, women who choose pain-medication, and women who choose completely natural birth. Most women who employ us do so to help bring their hospital birth into balance, as intervention is routinely used these days, with disastrous results. There is much wisdom in the idea of leaving well alone, and this is never truer than in birth. We are there, therefore, to support a woman in the ways that midwives were able to in the days before birth was brought into hospitals, minus the clinical aspects. Most women do want as natural a birth as possible, as they are aware that birth is not merely a means to an end, but a right-of-passage, as old as time itself. The hormonal interplay of birth is of great import to the health and well being of both mother and baby, and our role is to help empower women to have the best and safest birth for themselves and their baby. Statistics show that women who employ a doula experience reductions in:
caesarean section by 50%
Epidural use by 40%
length of labour by 20%
Decreased incidence of post partum depression
To name a few benefits of the doulas role. Cochran’s has a couple of reviews that will help to shed some light on the importance of the doula.
One hundred years ago, there was a higher morbidity and mortality rate associated with childbirth. However, in the research I have personally done, I've learnt that this had very little to do with place of birth, and far more to do with the times women were living in, in regards to nutrition and housing. Birth was moved into hospitals post-war, coinciding with better nutrition, shelter and general health care. It was not hospital that saved mothers and babies, but a healthier lifestyle. The best outcomes for birth occur when there is a balance between the obstetrical and the normal in birth. Intervention is sometimes needed, and in those instances, it is a lifesaver. If intervention is abused, however, risk becomes probable. Women who want to avoid unnecessary risk by being active in their birth choices employ doulas. At no point is a woman 'under' the care of a doula. A doula does not guide, a doula does not prescribe, she simply gives all choices, with no bias, so that a woman can then make an informed choice, based on evidence. A doula certainly never overlooks a homebirth as a clinical care-provider, that is always the role of the midwife.
I thought it very rude that you assumed all doula courses to be moneymaking scams, to use my own interpretation of your comments. There are plenty of university courses run via distance education and I actually completed my VCE via distance education. That makes it no less valid. I paid a fee for the doula course I undertook and, in return, was supplied with a large amount of study material, textbooks, exams, tutoring, and mentoring. My doula teacher is a Dr. of Midwifery, who teachers at university and is also a doula - her favourite role of all. As I do not live in Queensland, I am very fortunate that the course had a distance education option.
I think you will find, when you really look into it, that trained doulas are wise, thoughtful, caring women of high intelligence. Most of us are mothers, and many of us are midwives (though a doula never acts as a midwife while employed as a doula). There are lots of midwives who have decided to undertake a doula training course in order to add to their experience and abilities in helping a woman, physically and emotionally, through pregnancy, birth and the post-partum period. I know care providers simply love having doulas on board.
If you have any questions regarding doulas, don't hesitate to contact me. Please, do not write untruths when doulas have only ever brought good to the Australian maternity industry. Your article deeply offended a lot of very knowledgeable, passionate women - of course there was backlash.
Just wanted to say I think it's great that you are responding to the misrepresentation of the role of doulas.
The de-medicalisation (is that a word?) of birthing is something that will empower women to take back the control of their birthing experience. I wish I had had half the knowledge about doulas that I have now. I really needed some non-hospital help and I found it here on bub-hub.
I've had to delete a number of off-topic posts from this thread. Please try to respond to the original post, if you wish to start a new thread on the notion of Doulas and medical advice, please feel free.
If you are offended or bothered by a post or member please report the post by clicking on the red triangle icon in the top right hand corner of that post. This will bring it to the attention of a moderator and they will then take action. Do not retalliate on the the open forum.
Wow, great responses to that article. I think Doulas are great and would definately consider using one for my next birth at the very least. ;)
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