Would you hire a Doula for a freebirth?

[QTB]

I love the idea of a freebirth, and although 'legally' am not allowed to attend one, there is ways around it... im just wondering though, would you actually hire a doula for a freebirth? I know some people would and do, and some dont, just as some Doulas will attend and some wont...

What are your thoughts?

[shed]

No, I wouldn't.

I am planning on having one at my homebirth though, so there would be me, DP, doula and midwife.

One more loyal subject at my beck and call, tee hee.

[westerner]

Wouldn't it somewhat cancel out it being a free birth..?? Even though a doula is a support person and not a medical person they still have a wealth of knowledge and experience in the field..

I thought it would defeat the purpose somewhat.. :confused:

To answer the question no i wouldn't but that is because i would never free birth.. (unless i was trapped in the jungle and had no choice in the matter.. :p)

[QTB]

I dont think it would? my thoughts (as a doula and future freebirther) that a doula is there to support mum and dad in their choices, to provide comfort measures for mum not as a medical person (even if i attended a freebirth i wouldnt do anything medical, 1. because i legally cant 2. because mum doesnt want that!) if something major happened i would call in ambo... i wouldnt take on a freebirth in they wouldnt allow an ambo to be called in an emergancy.

I am planning on having a doula at my future freebirth! lol thats why im asking :D

[Freya]

i definately would:yes:

[Rainbowbrite]

I would, purely as "support" which is what you are there for :) Your not medically trained, therefore in my opinion it would still be a freebirth :)

[SassyMummy]

I dunno. I don't think I'd have a doula at a freebirth... if I wanted it to be a free birth, I'd want for it to be JUST me and my partner (and any children we had) and nobody else at all.

[AM]

I don't think i would.

I was interested to read this in your post though "if something major happened i would call in ambo" See to me that would be completely overstepping the bounds, if an ambo was going to be called, I would be the one making the call as the birthing woman.

And this "i wouldnt take on a freebirth in they wouldnt allow an ambo to be called in an emergancy" I totally agree there would need to be discussion about this, but ultimately it would be the birthing couples decision, and their assessment of an emergency may be very different to yours, and as a doula, you would need to know that it would not be your decision, and if that did not sit well with you, perhaps attending freebirth is not for you.

Essentially calling the ambos is a medical decision, not part of a doulas job.

I think the definition of a freebirth is that there is an absence of any birth professionals, so if you hired a doula, then it would most probably just be classed as a homebirth.

[QTB]

hmm good points....

by emergancy i mean if mum 'couldnt' deside for herself and dad agreed. it would be completely up to them... i would just make the call...

"you would need to know that it would not be your decision"

Absolutly! it wouldnt be my decision. it would be up to the mum and dad... i wouldnt want to have to make that decision.

All points would definatly be sorted out with mum and dad before the birth...

The only reason i would not support a woman wanting a freebirth if she didnt want an ambo called in an emergancy is because i simply could not watch a mum die in childbirth and not be able to do anything. Unlikely to happen, but there is always a chance...

Does that make sence?

Thanks heaps for your imput, it definatly gives me things to think about... freebirthing is such an amazing thing....!

[AM]

hehe - totally agree watching someone die in childbirth would be the pits! However, I think (luckily) there would be very very very few people around who would have such an aversion to getting help.

[Elfin]

What about the rights of baby though! If the baby was in danger of dying or at risk of permanant disability such as cerebral palsy and if mother did not want medical help whose rights should prevail? Would a doula override the mother's wishes?

I know it is probably going to be a very rare occurence but it is something I have wondered about freebirth whose rights prevail. What if the child grows up angry about its birthing experience could they take legal action against a doula who does nothing?

[AM]

Interesting question.

To be honest, I think if someone was that militant about birthing, I really really don't think they would be the kind of person who would have a doula, so it would probably never eventuate.

[kymmy]

No.

I don't think a free birth involves a doula or midwife though a support person may help some people. I would have to feel very close and comfortable with a person. My mum and mil would probably like to be at a birth but I didn't even like the midwives there. They really do throw me off.
Ideally I would be alone. It would suit me better.

[kymmy]

Just to note - if it felt that I was in danger I wouldn't hesitate in calling for help. My life and my child's life is more important than my desire to birth alone.

[Pippi Longstocking]

What about the rights of baby though! If the baby was in danger of dying or at risk of permanant disability such as cerebral palsy and if mother did not want medical help whose rights should prevail? Would a doula override the mother's wishes?



There is a greater risk of dying or permanent disability from birthing in hospital due to (mis)managed births, intervention, drugs etc. So I guess it's about risk assessment. I feel that birthing at home without anyone interfering is safer than having someone take control.

After all, we don't need any outside help with other bodily functions. I can menstruate on my own, I can give birth on my own.

[shed]

Any of the risks associated with freebirth (or homebirth for that matter) can and do happen with an OB at a hospital.

OB's get sued. Thats why they have insurance. All the money in the world won't make up for a dead baby or a disability, so legal action is a moot point in my eyes.

I wouldn't have a doula because I think they would be trying to cover their own @rse and would be too edgy. They know more than a friend, and less than a midwife, so I don't think its a good combination at a freebirth, really.

I would have one or the other - either me and DP, or a midwife and a doula.

[unhindered]

I did not hire a doula because i knew that i would not need one as if i needed support dh would cover all areas for me. He proved himself during my first birth, as a father, as a lover, as another person who absolutely "gets it", who knows and understands me second to myself. He understands birth and what as a support person he needed to do which was in the early stages continue the usual routine of care for our first daughter, supply me with lots of back massage while telling me what a goddess i am, how beautiful i look etc. When things got intense all he had to do was shut up and rub my back.

For my choice in not hiring a midwife was so i could be as unhindered as possible which is absolutely optimal for a labouring and birthing woman. So having a doula would have put me in a similar situation. I knew that the intense labouring would happen overnight so was not worried about my first daughter as i knew she would sleep through it which she did. If i had continued through the day then i would have called my very good friend to come and help with dd1. As it was the plan was to ring her at six in the morning, given that is when i started to push and gave birth minutes later there was no need to call, I was able to call to tell her i had a baby girl instead, what good timing.

For future births, i would need to see how i feel about another woman attending, but i highly doubt it. It would most likely be all four of us or just me birthing alone, guess when the time is right i will find out.

But yes who you chose to have in your house is very important as the labouring woman is so sensitive to all energies that they may bring into the sacred birthing space.

I am also a doula in training and i really question my beliefs about it all. I would really like to become a midwife and practice as an independent midwife for homebirths and would be more than happy to be back up for ucers. As a doula i would be happy to attend a uc.

Also in regards to the calling medical people for assistance. I am not for one minute saying that if you uc that you would never go near a hospy or call an ambulance if you felt there was something wrong. I was quite prepared to transfer if at any stage i felt that myself or baby was in any distress or something was wrong. And i stress that a labouring woman who is in tune with her body and baby would know if something was not right.

[fai firinne]

The impression I get of people who choose freebirthing is that they tend to be very responsible people who've really done their due diligence in reading, research, seeking alternate opinions, caring for themselves scrupulously through pregnancy e.g. with nutrition & exercise and emotional/spiritual nurture (one of the best ways to minimize risk of complications - wherever you give birth), and have primed and prepared themselves as well as possible. Part of this taking up of responsibility is having a sensible transfer plan.

I read this week on another forum about a woman who was asking her Ob about homebirth. This Ob replied, "95% of births proceed without incident, but you do need to watch out for the 5%." If that is correct, it makes you wonder, if it's true that 95 % of births proceed well (and that sounds about right to me), why we have a 30 - 80% c/s rate in our hospitals???

I get the impression that in the 5% of births that will potentially not "proceed normally", responsible freebirthing parents will up and go to hospital to get the help they need. Remembering that transfer does not automatically mean a c/s as the only solution to whatever the difficulty might be.

The other thing to balance is that the opposite approach, to attempt to guarantee safety for mother and baby by birthing in a high-tech unit, does not necessarily eliminate the risks in that 5% category - and may actually introduce or cause other risks that freebirthing is free of.

One difference is that at a freebirth, the parents take ultimate responsibility for any outcome.

In a high-tech unit, the careprovider carries that responsibility.

(BTW, I have never personally fb'd - although giving birth in the shopping centre was pretty close to it! We are not having any more children (*sniff*!) but I would definitely consider freebirth if I was.)

[moonblossom]

I see freebirth as only the mother and father present, or children if wanted. With only the mother and father's hands ready for the child when being born. As I understand it, it is done in isolation and is an intimate time either alone, or with ones partner, so I think I have to say that having a Doula there, would classify it as a homebirth.

I totally believe in a birthing mothers instincts, and without a doubt she would know if something just isn't right. Also saying that, I have no doubt, with all the research and time and effort put into this subject, the highest priority is the safety of her baby, then herself, so if a problem arises, she would be the first to go to hospital for help. Most freebirthers are very spiritual people, and very intuned to their bodies and their babies...and very protective of their baby, hence wanting a freebirth to start with. :yelclap:

Whatever you decide to do QTB, your gunna be AWESOME :hugs: and so looking forward to sharing this journey with you on Bubhub :smiliedance:

[stellarella]

I thought if you had a doula then it wasnt a freebirth....

I must be confused.

To me freebirth = no one in attendance.

:confused:

[demeter]

I'm planning a freebirth and hiring a doula. I don't really care if that means some people decide that it's not freebirthing, I'm not doing it for the label :)
I don't want any medical personel there, I will call an ambulance if I need medical attention, obviously.

I'm hiring a doula because what's the harm in having extra emotional support present? Its the first birth that me and my partner will ever have been at, so we wanted someone there who has seen birth before who will cheer me on and if for some reason my hubby can't handle it or needs a break I won't be all on my own.

Plus I really wanted a woman with me, but not my birth fearing friends or family. A woman who trusts my body and birth like me.

I don't know about future births, but for this one it's what I wanted. Unless I want that womanly touch again, in the future I'll birth just me and DH, but I guess I'll have to wait and see.

[stellarella]

I'm not saying it has to be a particular way for it to be 'freebirthing' but I dont know what 'freebirthing' means then if it differs for everyone.

I dont care about a label either but can someone explain what freebirthing is and what the point of it is if there are professionals there to support the mother. Isnt that just birth with a midwife or birth with a doula??

So is it the midwife (or lack of) who gives it the label freebirth?

[demeter]

Its birth free of medical professionals.
A doula is not a medical professional
A midwife is.

I've got this definition from reading various freebirth/unassisted birth/pure birth/empowered birth websites :)

[stellarella]

OK cool thanks. I have never been able to find out what it actually means.

So its the medical bit :)

So out of interest have you had a 'free' pregnancy? Do you have antenatal checks, scans etc.?

[AM]

There is always debate amongst homebirth/freebirth circles about what freebirth is and is not.

I get my definition from wikipedia

QUOTE:

Unassisted childbirth (UC) is birth without the aid of medical or professional birth attendants[1]. The term "UC" is used to denote that these circumstances were chosen by the mother and were not merely the result of an emergency situation or ill timing. Unassisted Childbirth is also known as unassisted homebirth, freebirth, unhindered birth, and couples birth. While most UC's do happen within the home, homebirths are not necessarily unassisted and usually include the presence of a midwife or other birth professional.

So to me, hiring a doula (birth professional) puts it in the category of homebirth.

But that is just my own pedantry, and at the end of the day, we all birth best if we feel safe. So having the right support around for you is paramount.

[stellarella]

Ah, see this is what I always thought too AM.

I see everyone has their own definition.

Well for me personally I dont think a doula attending is a freebirth. But thats just me.

[PunkyDiva]

[quote=QTB;1810767]The only reason i would not support a woman wanting a freebirth if she didnt want an ambo called in an emergancy is because i simply could not watch a mum die in childbirth and not be able to do anything. Unlikely to happen, but there is always a chance... quote]

I beleive this is why FreeBirth is about the woman, her body and her bub.
It is the other well meaning but nonetheless environment changing people around that affect some of us in such a negative way. What you deem as an emergency may not be felt by the mother at all and you could unintentionally destroy her chance to birth how she wants.

[demeter]

So out of interest have you had a 'free' pregnancy? Do you have antenatal checks, scans etc.?

That's the plan, but plans don't always go according to plan :confused::laughing: (what a sentence!). But if I feel like there's a need for a medical check I'll get one, but I'm just not planning on medical checks - same as with the birth I guess, I plan to go it without medicine, but if something happens to indicate I need assistance then I'll seek it. Although I have to admit it is sometimes hard to continuing resisting scans when I see the pics everyone else gets :)

[BeautifulBoys]

Im a trainee Doula & you may find it hard to find a doula that will support you in a "free birth" situation.. I know that would not be for me.. & in training we are told its best not too.
But i wish you all the best, i hope you do find a doula willing to support you.
Goodluck!!

[demeter]

I get my definition from wikipedia

Aaaargh not Wikipedia! Before my break I was spending my working days writing all over students assignments how evil wikipedia is (from a teachers standpoint).

[AM]

OK - that and from JB conversations, MDC conversations and Bornfree conversations! I know wiki can be a tad subjective, but in this case I feel it sums it all up quite nicely.

[demeter]

I was just being a pedantic teacher-nerd AM, please ignore my hang ups :D

[AM]

:laughing: No worries:thumbsup:

[demeter]

Hey AM I was wondering, do you think that I should not refer to my birth plans as "freebirth" because I'm hiring a doula? Instead I should just say I'm "homebirthing" or "homebirthing with a doula/without a midwife"?
I don't ask to stir the pot at all, I love you and don't feel at all defensive about this, I'm genuinely interested in your answer.

[AM]

I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean to medical people, or just people in general?

[stellarella]

You can call it what you like IMO. Your birth, your definition, your label.

But I do find it confusing and I guess others might too.

If I hear 'freebirth' I think mum/dad/baby being born. Thats all.

I guess its like the whole 'natural' birth thing. When I hear 'natural' birth I think completely drug/intervention free however lots of people call any VB a 'natural' birth.

Its just semantics.

[moonblossom]

I would support a woman who wants a freebirth, because putting labels aside, I advocate the WOMANS choice, and if its her choice to call it freebirth, but also have me there for support, then I will. Its not about me during labor and birth, its about the ALL IMPORTANT woman :thumbsup:

[AM]

If talking to medical people I would definitely shy away from using the term freebirth or anything related, more trouble than it is worth you would definitely be in for lectures etc, but for anyone else, just say whatever you want!! Honestly, it doesn't really matter, does it.:)

[demeter]

I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean to medical people, or just people in general?

Both I guess.
Am I unfairly attempting to gain entry into the freebirth club? (figure of speech) Eg. Personally I believe "natural birth" does not apply to a birth that had interventions such as drugs even if the baby was born vaginally, and it bugs me when someone says they had a natural birth with drugs or a "natural forceps delivery" etc.

I imagine there are women who birth at home just them and DH who would be frustrated with me calling my plans to homebirth with a doula "freebirth".

What about "freebirth with a doula"? Is that the best term or is it an oxymoron?

[AM]

O OK! Honestly, everyone has their own take on this, I guess people can split hairs all they want, but yeah, it is just semantics and as long as there is no "concrete" definition, everyone can have their own views, and still get along just fine. It is no big deal.:thumbsup:

I guess in the end what matters is you feel comfortable with it.

[fai firinne]

That's the great thing abou freebirth, there's many many ways to skin that particular cat and it's all up to you. If I were to have another baby, I would definitely be leaning towards freebirth. But I would like to have my dear friend a doula with me. (I know just who I'd choose!) I wouldn't be averse to having a midwife there. I would probably do my pre-natal checks with a private midwife. Many fbers don't do such checks but I'm too curious and I would like the care and attention, too. Then I might let my midwife know I was in labour and ask her to come, or I might ring and tell her after it was all over. I woul choose a midwife who was fine with both options.

I know some fbers really just want dh/dp and children and no one else, esp in USA I've noticed. I get that. But I really like other women with me when I birth. I had two women friends at my first homebirth, (plus one midwife), one woman friend at my second (plus a midwife I'd never met before who volunteered out of the crowd at the shopping mall, yes baby was born in a shopping mall, still living that down!!), and three women friends plus two midwives at the third homebirth - I could honestly have done without the midwives (I did not choose as cannily as I could have) but my three friends were just perfect.

Each to their own - that's the beauty of freebirth.