New Debate

[mumof2girls]

I seen an interview on tv the other day that was talking with single mothers and whether or not they should be working when there children are at school.

I think if you are a sole parent and your children are at school then you should be at least studying something so you can eventually get back into the workforce.

A friend of mine's daughter has 2 children and is on a sole parent pension and she makes $1800 a month, she says "why should I go to work when I make more money staying home". I have to say I can see her point. I disagree with it but I can see it.

I'm not saying that they should be made to work while their children are young but they should be doing something to get them ready for the workforce for when there children are older.

I also think that statistically they say 1 in every 2 marriages fail so the workforce has to adjust it way of thinking about single parents and ways that they can help them. What do others think?

Kay

[veronica]

I suppose these days you cannot make anyone work, because if they don't they won't starve which I suppose is an improvement. As you say though the problem seems to be motivation and incentive.
"why should I go to work when I make more money staying home" I suppose my response to that would be self pride and also perpetuating welfare cycles. I personally believe that their children would benefit from seeing their mother or father for that matter, being in work. The work does need to allow for childrens sickness however and the tax system needs overhauling so that there is a financial incentive to swap benefits for a pay packet. Welfare can become a vicious cycle from what I have seen from working with young adults as it erodes self esteem and motivation.

I certainly think it is important to spend as much time as possible with your children and my (and my husbands) choice is to be at home with them until they are at school - although I fully understand those that need to return to work before then - after all it can sometimes be quality not just quantity of time. I think that the single parents are not being targetted before their children are school age. I know I would like to do some work just for my own brain! Actually I've been doing up my resume and am going to see if I can teach some night classes at TAFE perhaps. This would give me some much needed brain work - as much as I love my DD - it's hard to leave behind a decade of mental challenge for the more physical and emotional challenges of motherhood! I will see how I go - I thought it would be a good as my DH could look after DD and if I had any marking I could do it during the day when DD slept. I better go and approach TAFE though, I'm getting rusty already and feel a bit nervous!

Thats my 2c worth!!

[WeThree]

I have 2 agree wiht you mumof2girls, even some sort of study or part time work would be beneficial not only to these womans self esteem and to their childrens lifestyles but their children are not going to be dependant on them forever and if they dont do something about it, when their children are older they are going to be totally unemployable(this just doesnt apply to single mums) and you only get the pension till your child turns 16 as far as i know, and then what will they do. education is power and it is the only way of breaking the welfare cycle(that or winning the lotto :) )

[mumof2girls]

I guess some of them will continue having children over the next few years. I guess if you are going to get $3000 or more for having a child and $1800 a month (2 children)on a sole parent pension why would you stop? (some people have this mentality)

I work for a living and I'm going back to uni next year to further my studies because I'm sick of working for nothing. It is disheartening to know that I have a diploma and a lot of people on the dole & single parents on a pension make more than I do!! :mad: But I'm one of these people that would rather work for what I have not have it handed to me (unless it is a lotto win :)

Kay

[WeThree]

i know what you mean. my husband and i sometimes wonder if we would really be any worse off if we just didnt work (plus you get all your medications etc for practically nothing!) but this is not the sort of attitude we want to intill in our children, mumof2girls i admire you for all the hard work it sounds like you are doing at the moment, i plan to go to uni next yr, i know it will hard financially(as well as time consuming!) but it will benefit my family so much more in the long run, rather than continue what i do atm (im an AIN and we get lousy pay for really hard work, so i am going to get my RN's) although currently i am at home with the kids (there is no way i could work atm, matilda is just too little and a real booby girl :)
ps i dont think pensions should be abolished or anything like that ( i was on it when thomas was a tiny baby while i studied) but i think it should be used as a short time thing, to help people out when they need it ,its not meant as something to live off your whole life!

[mumof2girls]

I hear you Veronica about wanting to stay home with your children, I looked after both my girls till they went to school and managed to get a degree while looking after them and when they started school my hubby stayes home with them now and he loves it and the girls love always having one of us there. Believe me it hasn't been easy and we have done without but it has all been worthwhile to be able to spend time with them. They are growing so fast and we cherish that time with them.

What do others think about 2 parents having to work? to me I think it is a personal choice. We managed to but a house (get a morgage anyhow) and we drive a fairly nice car but since we wanted to stay home with our children we sacraficed knowing that we could manage on 1 wage. I don't fully understand why both parents have to work except for the fact that they live beyond their means!! Am I wrong in thinking this or is there a side that I have completely missed. I don't want to offend anyone but I am curious!

Kay

[mumof2girls]

coopsntilly's mum I hear you!

I think the pension should be abolished but used as a stepping stone to further yourself in life. I know when I go to uni it will be hard financially and all but I know all the hard work is worth it. Good luck with uni and your RN's degree :)

I'm sure you can handle it, it sounds like you have everything under control and know where your priorities lie :D

Kay

[Lucybelle]

$1800 a month is not a lot, it's not like she will be sitting there watching her stock portfolio build.
It's a ridulous thing to want to abolish the pension - most people do use it as a stepping stone anyway. Would you prefer the return of backyard abortions, or having to give up your child because you can't feed them?
For gods sake, instill a good work ethic in your kids, but don't look down on other parents, single or not, for accepting the benefit.

[veronica]

No 1800 isn't alot per month, but neither is what we earn after we pay tax, health insurance etc, and my DH works such long hours. Some will say that you don't need the insurance etc but you do as otherwise you are hit with even more tax. Also we don't get any other benefits so in the end despite all DH's hard work I don't think we are much further ahead because you also need to factor in the other benfits of health care cards, etc that welfare recipients receive. They won't be buiding stock market portfolios but neither should they with tax payer money.

Now my intent was never to insult people who are on welfare, but I think there are lot of people out there who are working their backsides off and don't end up with much more to show for it! I think these people are hardly ever considered as battlers yet they are as they earn too much to get tax free benefits yet too little to be able to afford tax avoidance schemes. No I don't think backyard abortions should be returned to and I think it would be very few people who would be silly enough to go through bringing a child into this world just to receive $3000.

Yes all people should instill work ethics in their children but children learn by example and I don't think it is too much to ask singles parents (male or female) to do some paid work once their children are in school. What annoyed me recently on the tv was single mothers complaining when interviewed about Costello saying the govt was going to encourage single parents of school age children to go back to work. Yes I understand some of their points and I beieve there are changes needed for parents to cope better in the work force - from flexible work hours, to flexible sick leave, to an overhaul of the tax system.

Sorry for going on and I don't want to welfare bash and it does play an important role but I've seen too closely what welfare dependance can do on young peoples self esteem and unfortunately it becomes a cycle that perpetuates itself. Surely doing some paid work (or study to achieve that goal) is not too much to ask once kids are in school?

[mumof2girls]

Lucybelle that was a typo error (happens at midnight) it should have said they shouldn't abolish the pension but rather use it as a stepping stone. I'm not down on single parent or other parent s for accepting benefits but I do get annoyed when my tax $ are being paid for people to sit at home and do nothing, I know this isn't everyone who is doing it but there are quite a few. We have children in our centre 5 days a week all day and their parents don't work or study and it cost them $10 a week for 2 children just because they don't want to watch them.

I work for a living and I'm not building a stock portfolio either, most times they make more money than me and recieve more benefits than me does that make me happy no but I believe in showing my kids by example and working for what they get!!!

Kay

[nkenward]

Hi,

My husband has 2 children (9 & 12) from a previous marriage who live with their mother. Up till 18 months ago she was not working and was getting every single govt. benefit she could along with child support from my husband. At one stage she was then working part-time (casual) and was earning around $700 to sometimes $1000 a week. Not only was the govt. still paying her, my husbands child support was still un-altered as well, infact he was told to pay more!!! Due to a slight increase in his wage, even though he was no where near to earning the same has her.

Anyway, she has now started full-time employ. The Govt has taken away all benefits. (About bloody time). However, she has totally confused the kids. They were absolutely beside themselves and can't understand why it has been stopped, we explained that we (hard working people) are the ones that end up paying her for not working and that we didn't think that was fair, because we don't get it back from the Govt.

Unfortunately because of their mother's twisted mind, I really don't think it sunk in. I agree that there are definitely people out there that can't work. However, even handicapped people work in workshops etc, why can't a healthy person that get off their backsides and contribute to society and educate their children.

[Lucybelle]

O.K, my tone is not unfriendly here, it is a debate......

The media and politicians just LOVE riling us up about all these people sitting on their bums receiving benefits, I'm sure it is just to distract us from all THEIR rorts.

For a start this big Costello thing - trying to get parents back to work is OLD, OLD news. It has actually been in place for about 3 years, and I have to say in all the interviews I have done to inform parents on benefits (hundreds) NOT ONE has kicked up a fuss, and in fact are either dying to get back to work, or pleased they hve an opportunity to reskill or upgrade their skills to return to the workforce.

Media always seem to find the biggest shazza in the state, cigarettes in hand and a tribe of kids to stick in front of the camera to whine about having to actually Do something. And it works EVERY time.
If someone is happy to raise their 2 kids on $1800 a month - fine, that is certainly not my standard of living, and therefore I work.
There will always be these people, but they are in the minority, they will expect the world owes them a living, and they will always complain.

I have seen people earning well over $100,000 trying to claim Family Benefits, and they are the ones who are alot narkier when knocked back. The highest wage I saw was $250,000 - why on earth these people think they are entitled never ceases to amaze me. And worse, some families on over $100,000 a year DO receive FTB because one parent has the luxury of staying at home. Now thats something to get angry about.

The other thing is, if there are people out there with benefits higher than your or partners wage - you should get a better paying job, not complain about the welfare. You can upskill too!
Kay - the childcare thing must really crap you off, but they are rorting the system because the cheaper childcare is supposed to be for these same parents to be studying, training, or working. It should be better policed but why doesn't the govt spend some of the speed-camera (oops sorry about the fine you shoudln't have got) money towards this?

* The average time a single parent spends on the pension is about 4 years.
** The most rorted benefit is actually the Age pension.

Food for thought........

[mumof2girls]

You right it is a debate and I don't find you unfriendly, if we all had the same opinion we would have a perfect world wouldn't we?

I am uping my skills with TAFE at the moment and going back to uni next year so I can get a better paying job. I'm not sitting on my butt doing nothing but I had to wait till we were able for me to go back to school financial wise!

I guess with you working within the system you see more than me by far and I'm not saying that everyone rorts the system and that it was just single mothers but that's what the interview was on. I have seen on current affair shows where people live in mansions and are on unemployment as well but your right the media will find the best people for the story to sensationalise it!

Kay

[WeThree]

I dont believe i mentioned abolishing the pension, in fact i was a single mum for 5 yrs so i know what a godsend it can be and believe me i also know that the majority of single mums are not deadbeats. i just dont think it should be used to live on forever. i was on a part pension for some of that time (and relied on it totally for the 1st 8mths of his life and it was no picnic, i couldnt even afford a washing machine!) and i know how hard it can be to find daycare and work etc etc, no one has to preach to me about that! i just find the people who dont even try so frustrating. i also find a system frustrating that does not make it easier for woman to return to the workforce and a system that either accomodates the very rich or very poor yet there seems to be nothing for your middle of the road family, one income because the children are small etc. oh great now im just frustrated about everything! ggrrr.... :) (who started me off, im not writing anything else about any of this anymore! :)

[mumof2girls]

Coopsntilly that would be my fault, I said I agreed with you that it should be abolished when I should have typed shouldn't be abolished but a stepping stone, it was a typo error that I made and I did apologise so SORRY!!!!! once again.

I didn't mean to get you upset it is a touchy subject with some people but I agree with not much help for the middle people. Oh well my children have a roof over their heads, plenty of food to eat , and toy & clothes & they are in private school getting a great education and that's good enough for me (at the moment).

I'm just happy with the payments that we have here, we spent a month in the US last year and their welfare system has something to complain about, I don't think we realise how lucky we are here in Australia! :)

Kay

[Graeme]

Hi all,

It is a tricky question. I certainly agree that the mass media often does not contribute to the debate in a constructive way and are likely to sensationalise it, and these sorts of discussions are probably more constuctive.

I'm torn between being concerned about people rorting the system and providing support to people when they need it. I probably don't think that starting with getting parents back to work is a real priority. One of my real worries about forcing parents back to work is what happens during school holidays. It is one thing to say parents should be at work when their kids are at school (although even then I would like to see parents be able to be involved in the school etc) but another thing to expect them to work during school holidays.

Society is also really concerned about "youth crime" and the "youth problem", maybe there wouldn't be so many problems if parents were encouraged to stay at home more and to be actively involved in their childrens lives.

Some people probably do rort the system, but I would like it there still to support people who need it.

I probably feel that encouraging people back to work by providing interesting jobs in family friendly environments or by providing other incentives is the way rather than forcing people back.

Catch you all later
Graeme

[Lucybelle]

I think we are really agreeing here anyway, with the return to work thing it goes like this - when your youngest child starts school you are asked if you would like help to find work, reskill etc, etc. When you eldest turns 13 you are asked participate in either, work, study, training for a certain period of time. This equates to 6 hours a week. Voluntary work is included.
This needed to be addressed as many parents would find themselves off benefits when their kids turned 16, and put on the dole. No work skills, or very old ones did not make this easier.
Now, I think you would agree, this isn't too hard. So it really annoys me (and the rest of the world) when you see someone whining about not doing it, when this is designed to HELP return to the workforce. There is also fantastic help for people who would like to start their own business.

I turn the telly off when this issue is dragged out again and again - like I suspect, it is merely to distract us from the REAL RORTERS!

I agree with you to Graeme, but there is a few people out there who feel the world owes them a living AND care of their children. YUK

[willsmum]

We have a business that earns over the threshold for us to receive benefits - never mind that we put money back into employing people rather than taking it as income - so we don't qualify for ANY benefits at all. I stopped my quite highly paid job (after 15 years in the same industry I worked hard for it and deserved it!!) after no 1 was born and went back to work part-time after 12 months of totally unpaid mat leave. I am now on a further 12 mo unpaid with no 2.

We chose to cut back on some things for ourselves so that we can give our kids what they needed - ie me at home.

The government supposedly wants us to have kids, but Mr Howard's $3k (whilst gratefully received) is a drop in the ocean when you consider what some of us forfeit (and not only wages but also super contributions, career progression - you can't tell me 2 years out of the workforce and part-time not full-time work hasn't hurt my promotional chances!!!).

So whilst those of us who can cope get by with nothing extra and raise functional, intelligent, contributing members of society, others with a welfare mentality sit on theur bums and get money for nothing. Yes, I have worked in a welfare related industry for years in a disadvantaged suburb.


Not knocking the genuine needy, but some people could use few reality checks. And once the kids are at school, surely you have a few hours a day to do something useful.

[WeThree]

hi i know i said i wouldnt write anything else here but i just wanted to tell kay that i didnt notice your typo till you pointed it out, i thought it said shouldnt, it was another post i was refering too. :)

[mumof2girls]

coopsntilly's mum just didn't want you mad at me, I don't mind admitting I was wrong but I thought you were referring to my reply but the other person could have read it wrong and thought that's what you had said! :)