ABC learning Willoughby

[Sharon]

Hi. We're finally moving back to Sydney and need some advice.

Does anyone have any experience with the ABC learning centre in Tulloh st Willoughby? I have my youngest sons name down on the wait list and have been told it is highly likely he will get a spot when we move back.

I spoke with a few mums years ago when it was called Possum or Koala .... .... and they loved it. I am hoping it is still the same.

Apologies for asking annoying questions about Willoughby. I am just happy to be going back to Sydney close to our friends and family and moving into our new house.

Thanks
Sharon

[Wish_Bear]

Hi Sharon,

I have worked in childcare for nearly 8 years. Since moving to Syd 5 years ago I haven't heard anything good about ABC centres in general. I don't know personally but I was talking to a lady who worked at one and she was leaving due to the fact that it seems to be run for profit only.

Have you been in to check it out? I think you will know yourself when you go in whether you want to send your child there. Just ask loads of questions too.

Sorry I don't want to scare you or anything but just thought I'd let you know what I've heard.

Hope it helps and not hinders your plans.

[CrazyBeautiful]

That's interesting to know, as I too was looking at sending my DS to an ABC Learning Centre. I'll certainly do my research.

[Odessa]

Our company is building new corporate headquarters that we're moving to next year, there will be onsite child care provided by ABC...a lot of the mothers aren't impressed. What's up with ABC? Anyone have any experiences they can share?

[BecH]

I have worked in many of these centres and here is what I have found.

They are defintely run for profit. They hire young, or underqualified staff so they can pay the least. They use Certificates of Endorsement so that unqualified people can fill positions (these should be used in emergency to cover vacancies). They bring in equipment from there other centres when they are being accredited and as soon as they pass and open they ship all the equipment back and work on less than required. The rooms are generally under staffed with two many children, therefore the staff are often tired and crabby.

I could continue but I won't. I suggest you look into family day care. Or at least if you have to send them through ABC do spot visits at random times, check numbers of children in a room and see if you think there is enough equipment for all the children to get to use. Also ask staff about there qualifications and how the program is meeting your child's needs, after all it is what they promise.

Good luck

[ThomasMum]

Hiya, Sharon...

During our research and investigation finding the best CC for our Thomas, weve heard a so-so and sometimes not very good stories about the ABC centres (we live in North Sydney area), which is kinda sad because I am sure that there are good ABC centres out there. So I would investigate more if I were you...

There are many fantastic private Childcares around North Shore area btw (esp Mosman, Chatswood, North Sydney, Waverton area) so if you willing to pay money- and put your kids name there ASAP am sure you will find suitable CC for your kid/s in this area.
And dont forget to spend at least half a day at the centre like we did, so that you will learn/know the culture, the activity & most importantly the environment of the CC.

Btw Thomas goes to private CC and its one of the best in the North Shore area. I am not a childcare worker btw so I'm not trying to sell/promote anything. I am just a proud mum who has a healthy and happy son who goes to most wonderful CC (for 2 days/week at the moment) :)

Good luck!

T'sMum

[Odessa]

my old flatmate worked for a cc centre in Willoughby ( I believe) I can't recall the name of the place but I think it was run by an older European lady called Vanya? Anyway, my flatmate said the place was awful and she didn't stay there very long, she resigned in disgust due to the hygiene practices of the centre.

I guess parents should really investigate a cc centre before leaving their child there, but it's made difficult by the lack of available cc spots and parents seem to be forced to take what they're given.

[Chickadee]

Nearly all childcare centres are businesses and are run for profit. Not just ABC. Therefore at every daycare centre there is a chance that corners will be cut in the aim to increase profits.

ABC has a somewhat bad reputation. BUT, that is not to say that there aren't very good ABC centres out there. And there are other bad CC centres which aren't ABC. So you really do need to research each one individually and decide for yourself if it is suitable for your child and meets your standards.

As TM suggests spend at least a few hours to half a day at the centre to really check it out and see staff in action. This should usually be free and additional to any tour they give you. Spot checks are also good. The individual staff make a huge difference to the care your child will receive, and also reflect the overall running of the centre. If staff seem happy and interact well with the children it's a very good sign.

[CKmum]

I'm a teacher in the child care industry and am currently on mat leave with my first child. I'm also looking at placing my child into care when I return to work and the main thing I would look at is the staff. Regardless of the type of centre, whether its KU or ABC or any private or community centre (and I've worked in a KU, ABC & private centre), the thing that makes it a good centre are the staff that work there and look after the children. Look at how the staff interact with children and how the children respond to the staff. If the carers are warm and friendly and the children are reciprocating the feelig then it could be good centre. Always visit the centre and do a couple of orientation sessions to get a feel of the centre and make sure you and your child feel comfortable.

[perrywinkle]

Here's a link to an old thread.

http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=3469

[Sharon]

Ladies thank you for all of your replies.

I see there have been some good and some bad experiences with ABC learning where some have been totally scarred. On the safer side I will be checking two centres that we will most likely get into, one not being an ABC. I was totally against the chain, but I guess all centres should be based on an individual basis. Hopefully I can join the discussion next time some asks about ABC and add my own opinion after visiting the local centre.

Thanks again for the feedback.
Sharon

[coastalmum]

Hi Sharon,

This probably wont help you much, but anyway my daughter starts at an ABC centre in 2 weeks, but we live on the central coast. I had looked around at a few child care centres and found that the ABC was the best.

My husbands cousins fiance works at one on the central coast aswell and she said that they are really good aswell, and she knows what i'm like, very fussy, she wouldn't tell me that if it wasnt true.

Good luck with it all.

Coastalmum

[CrazyBeautiful]

That's great to get good, honest advice, thanks Jo. I am currently researching childcare options on the North Shore and ABC is definately off the list for sure now.

[ThomasMum]

The centre and staff are made to conform to a set of guidelines that sees a child's daily routine full of boredom and monotony with a mnimum of art and craft supplies and paper towels limited per room per month.

The ABC I worked in had two trainees which is standard but these trainees can't have any qualification as if they do the government doesn't give ABC $1700 to train them for the minimum qualification in childcare...the certificate 3.

A woman I knew wanted to extend herself and was already enrolled in The Diploma of Children's Services but was told either drop that goal at TAFE and join our own moneymaking training centre at ABC to qualify for a lesser goal. She wanted to be well into the Diploma but if people are past a certian tertiary level then they aren't hired not matter how good they are because you got it ABC doesn't get their fees plus the governments $1700 grant! Not illegal but highly immoral.

Also if you think your children are under great care think again. I don't want to generalise as there are some great teachers/carers out there but ABC is seen as all in it for the $$$ and the children are a way of getting it. Directors are told what to do and minor mistakes by staff lead to signing pieces of white paper.....bad girl sort of thing.
From what I saw there are two faces: The one you see when dropping kids off and the one you don't see when at work. All the fun is removed from children's lives and I would go anywhere else than an ABC Centre as with staff turnover very high you may not have the same people you liked when enrolling as little ABC clones are marched into the centre.

Really it is in general and my opinion a centre that complains about staff so much many good ones leave, leaving only the clones!
I can't say what I've seen happen in the centre I was at but I would NOT send my child there!! I'm not talking abuse, just poor care and boredom for kids who get told to STOP doing this and that. ABC don't say No but stop as No is negative yet kids learn YES and NO early on?

I wouldn't send a dog there, well only to eat food scraps perhaps and even then is custard for dessert 4/5 days good food? Even the meals are budget, everything including staff are cut to the bone so the centre makes money for which the director gets a nice little $2000 bonus and the staff this year a stuffed toy animal.

Look around for a cosy happy place where staff seem involved and children laugh! At ABC laughing is TOO LOUD therefore children cannot be children, however if you find a good ABC I'm not saying don't go......just be aware staff leave.

Take Care all,

Jo

Interesting post Jo. Thank God my son goes to privately run childcare. Do you mind to tell me which ABC centre are you talking about? Because seriously if this allegation is true, I would love to expose this centre to the media or even just to let people that I know not to send their kids there (I live in the North Shore-Waverton area btw).
Could you pls PM me the answer thanks Jo. Much appreciated. :)

[Sharon]

I guess it's the luck of the draw with ABC learning centres and as Jo said playing russian roulette with your children. I am very surprised that there is all this bad publicity - word of mouth is a very powerful advertising tool. I am amazed that the company continues to thrive with so much negativity. My son is too young at the moment to start at our local ABC, lucky for me. I am still keen to go and visit the centre for myself and stalk parents outside.

Thanks for all the replies.
Sharon

[bumpsmum]

I would just like to add my 2 pennith worth.

I have just withdrawn my son from ABC after 4 yrs . When we started it was an independant private day care. The fees were expensive but worth it.

2 years ago ABC took over and it was downhill from there. There has been no continuity of staff and 3 months ago we had our first progress report with a teacher who didn't have a clue about my son. We raised some concerns regarding lack of social skills but were assured that he was a popular little boy. 2 weeks ago we got called due to a problem ( I have discussed it in another thread regarding starting school so I won't go into the whole sorry tale. ) The interesting thing is that I mentioned to 3 teachers that Luke said his behavior was due to being bored and that he felt the teachers hated him and were always shouting at him. Not one of those teachers denied this claim:thumbsdown: When I spoke to the girl regarding withdrawing Luke due to these reasons the first thing she said was ok then lets see what you owe us!!!! Unfortunately for them they owed US money. Yet another example of their incompetence.

The food as mentioned above is monotonous and custard does indeed feature heavily. :barf:

I was unaware of the issue regarding qualifications but I am aware of a casual who had worked for the centre for some time under the old management who continued with ABC for a while but wasn't paid for a month so had to leave.

The children who don't sleep are expected to entertain themselves and we were made to feel like ogres for not allowing him a sleep despite the fact that he is nearly 5!!! I guess it interferes with staff lunches. It's nice to all go together and it's easier if kids are asleep.

On one day I counted 26 children in the garden with one carer. The others were inside setting up for the day but when questioned I was told because they were on site they were on duty?

The advert suggesting that ABC encourages individuality is nonsense. If they don't sleep when they want them to or dont want to do what is suggested they are considered trouble makers.

I'm not claiming my son is an angel, he's not but after 4 yrs in a centre you would expect a bit more support after one incident than we received. It was quite clear that the staff are inexperienced and wished to pass the buck squarely on our shoulders.

My biggest regret is not withdrawing my son 2 years ago when they took over. I wouldn't enrol my dog there let alone my newborn.

[bumpsmum]

I can't comment on this particular centre as I only have experience of the one in Kensington. The only thing I would say is that my son also attends family day care with a lady he has now known for 4 years. When the problems happened at the day care centre we contacted the co-ordinators to see if the problem extended there. When we told the scenario they replied " ABC ? Say no more. It would be unprofessional of us to comment further. " I think it was clear they had had previous experience.

I'm sure every day care centre should be judged individually. But the stories of ABC go on and on. Go along and see how you find it. Go without an appointment to get a proper view. Please don't do what we did and stick with it just because you think it's the only option. It's 2 weeks since my son left and he is still upset when we drive past as he thinks I am going to leave him there. Your childs happiness comes first.

[MikesMum]

All I have to say is: Community care is better