Let's talk FAS (Foetal Alcohol Syndrome)

[Mother Duck]

Hello All

I was lucky enough to have worked with a leading expert on FAS while preggas with DD (at Cherbourg - Qld)

Of course she nagged me silly about absolutely NO alcohol when pregnant but it was very interesting talking to her about it all.

I am keen to know what the general thoughts and understanding of FAS is??

So fire away.

Warmest regards
Jessie

[RuthK]

Hi

I don't know that much about FAS, but I do know that many doctors recommend you do not touch alcohol in the first 13 weeks, but after that it's ok to have 1-2 units per week. My doctor in Ireland in fact believed that the occasional drink often had more benefits than not, especially if you were suffering with depression or anxiety about your pregnancy. Guinness in particular was recommended as it's so full of iron.

I found a glass of wine on a Friday night helped me to relax later on in the pregnancy, especially during that endless time whislt you're waiting for labour.

[kerrie]

Hi Jessie,

I've also worked in communities where the effects of FAS are evident. The last community I worked in as a midwife was on Mornington Is. where I saw, first hand, Babes with FAS and young women who were born with FAS now grown and starting their own families. The prob is epidemic on Mornington and there's much work to be done....Lots of great workshops happening in schools around FAS though, which is where the education has to start IMHO.

Personally I haven't touched alcohol in my pregnancy. It crosses the placenta and although it may be diluted I figure I wouldn't give my baby diluted alcohol in a bottle after it's born so I'm not going to do it while I'm pregnant.

I know the D&A people say that although they recomend no intake during pregnancy (because they don't know where the safe cut off is) they are aware that women who have a glass or two per week have babies who are born without probs..........but it's not for me, I love a wine as much as the next person but it's only a small thing to give up for my babe, and besides I don't miss it/ feel like it at all anyway............Now chocolate, thats a different story ;)

Kerrie :)

[WeThree]

I have seen the effects regular consumption of alcohol can do to babies. a friend of the family has had 3 children and drank regulary throughout all her pregnancies. all her chi;ldren suffer from physical and mental health problems. they have behavioural and learning difficulties and they look 'funny' to ( like there is something not quite right, i cant quite explain it) yet with this third one she just didnt seem to make the connection and continued to drink quite heavily, he was born 4 wks early, very small & had to spend a few weeks in neonatal unit. i dont understand some people, it is only a short period of time. :( having said that, though i chose not to, i dont think there is anything wrong with the odd wine or two, particulary in the later mths of pregnancy :)

[Mother Duck]

Hello all

Great to hear from you.

Ruth - with DD I also had (when out for dinner etc) a tiny bit of wine diluted with lemonade once I was past the first 3mths.

Who knows who is right and who is wrong - nothing here is meant as judging - however I personally think that Kerrie on the right track - I wouldn't give it to her in a bottle and so no to any for this pregnancy.

Erin - you have touched on a very interesting aspect of FAS - children that are born with FAS do have a very specific look. They are quite flat over the nose and lip area and their eyes seem very widely spaced and sort of googly.

Once you have seen this look it is impossible to miss.

I feel very sad for those that are not strong enough to hold back (I don't mean the glass here and there) - as alcohol can have such a strong grasp.

Kerrie - tell me more of what you have seen in Mornington etc.

Website for your interest - http://www.healthinsite.gov.au/topics/Foetal_Alcohol_Syndrome

Also from the net "Foetal alcohol syndrome (FAS) is a set of birth defects caused by heavy consumption of alcohol during pregnancy. Children with this condition typically have a misproportioned head, facial deformities, mental retardation, and behavioral problems. FAS is the leading known cause of mental retardation in the Western Hemisphere."
(http://uk.encarta.msn.com/media_701611557/Foetal_Alcohol_Syndrome.html)
A photo is available on this site

Bye for now
Jessie

[bubbalove]

I agree with Kerrie, no alcohol for me with either of my pregnancies. Another point I thought I could raise is the cinsumption of alcohol while breastfeeding - too many mums abstain during pregnancy, but go at it hammer and tongs once the bub is out! Which obviously isn't such an issue if bubs is on formula, but while breastfeeding??? It seems to be regarded as 'safer' for some silly reason.

[Mother Duck]

Hi there BubbaLove

How is your beautiful Jessamy?

And how are you going?

Yes - you raise an excellent point. It is just as important to watch the consumption when breastfeeding. There is nothing wrong with a good old let the hair down and get hammered - as long as you have HEAPS of expressed breastmilk available or as you say formula.

I think it is one standard drink = express milk and discard for four hours (please feel free to correct me if this sounds wrong)

However - it seems that Ruth's Irish Doc is in the know with this one. A glass of Guiness at an appropriate time (that fits around your feeding) - is very good for the breastmilk supply (apparently)


(another very comprehensive site - http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/text/rsrch/reports/r71/r71e_e.shtml)

Once again hope all is well for you, your new bubbie and all!

Jessie

[bubbalove]

Thanks Jessie
Little Jessamy (already getting called Jessie around here!) is good, won't settle for Mummy but loves Daddy... I posted more on that in the sleeping/settling thread... but otherwise is great :) Big brother Aidan is being so patient too, God love him!
Do you work in the medical field? Just wondering, what with these posts and all...I'm a nurse
Take care!

[Mother Duck]

Hi again BubbaLove

I am pleased that she is getting Jessie - I have always preferred it to my full name!

I am actually a Geologist but there is not much call for that here.

Sort of gave it up when I decided to get married and come here.

So now - yes I do work for Qld Health - I do admin mostly but also cultural awareness training which I love.

T'rah
Jessie

[kerrie]

Hi Jessie,
Mornington was FABULOUS. Lots of social probs (inc D&A/FAS, DV, Poverty etc,etc) and who knows what the long term answers are but once the culture shock passes it's much easier to see the beauty in Family, Community and Spirutiality.
I loved my job up there (Community midwife), but alas not much work for my man who's in hospitality ;) .....no need for resturants, when you can go fishing and get yourself some Dugong from mother ocean :p
So I returned to Bris and am now working in a AMS in a Women's Health Role...which is also lovely. I miss birth but dont miss being on call ....and besides, now I have balance in my life which has made space for us to make our baby (due in July) :) :)

Kerrie & Weeny Buba Xx

[Tannie]

Hey guys - I agree with abstaining from alcohol whilst preg & b/f. I too have seen FAS and take the same view as Kerrie - you wouldn't give it to bubs diluted in a bottle.........I've taken this view with any type of drug really.

Mind you - I think once bub is fully developed, and all being well they should have a fully functioning liver by birth.....then probably 1-2 units a week is not going to do any harm and if it makes you feel a bit better or enjoy an occasion & decreases your stress - then I wouldn't worry about it. Personally during my preg I had 1 glass wine at about week 20 & since bub born, I glass - just after I fed in the hope it would be gone by next feed!! Don't know if that makes any difference though?

I think if you can't give up alcohol whilst pregnant - then you'd have to think seriously that you may have a drinking problem........coming from a family of alcoholics.......that's something that I would get hope I'd get serious help for asap - if I realised I really couldn't stop drinking - at a time like pregnancy, if you can't stop drinking then..??? Then you probably never will IMO.

Also - cutting down drinking whilst a parent to a small child would also have to be on the "must do" list surely? I would find it hard to forgive myself if I was half drunk and something happened to my child and I either a) couldn't respond appropriately or b) couldn't get them to help quickly enough because I couldn't drive or whatever or c) injured my child because I was under the influence (have heard of a woman who did serious harm to her bub trying to change her after a night out & tripped & dropped her baby.......)

As a previous quite heavy drinker (I think I was well on the way to a serious alcohol problem) I think we all need to look very carefully at alcohol consumption OVERALL in society - I remember being taught at uni that 1 in 3 hospital visits can be related to alcohol consumption :eek: That's a frightening statistic and a huge cost / burden to our society. I am not anti-alcohol & enjoy a good drop ;) but our "drinking"culture needs a bit of a rethink I believe.

T

[WeThree]

I agree Tannie, there is no way you can properly parent your children if you are half(or fully) intoxicated. the only time i will ever have more than 1 drink is if i do not have to take care of my children for that night (or day) and seeing as i cant remember the last time that happened, i very rarely drink!(am also breastfeeding so that rules it out anyway) my husband is a non drinker so in the past if we are at a gathering i have been able to indulge in a couple of drinks if he offers t otake care of the kids :) but its like you said if a person cannot give up for that short period of time i would suspect that they have a problem and should seek help.
woman who drink/smoke/use drugs without even trying to reduce their intake during pregnancy make me so mad! they are directly responsible for if anything happens to this little person because of their actions yet they take it so lightly, caring for a child begins when they are in your womb(in some ways this is the most important bit of all) well i think i have raved on long enough, im glad there are so many mums NOT like this on this site :)

[Mother Duck]

Kerrie

Oh how special - your first bubba eh? Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.

Good for you that you got so much out of your experience on Mornington. There are two ways to look at it (as with everything) focus on the positive and possible solutions or focus on the negative and impossible problems! I personally love working at Cherbourg, likewise there are massive social issues that need to be addressed, but there are some amazing people that are trying to address them. It will take time for healing and health in some of the communities such as this but I am sure it will come about.

Tannie and Erin - Hi there, harsh words Tannie, very true though! - pulled a bit on my guilt strings (also from family of alco's and have struggled with it alot over time) - but this just makes me more proud of my resolve while I have been preggie and breastfeeding.

I did have one night when Mickayla first went to formula that I got totally smashed, with restauranters that are friends of ours, didn't mean to - great night out though, just the three of us drinking wine and singing songs! It was a good release for all that self-control prior. DH was the parent during that time though, and the next day, and half of the next day too! I was SSOOOO sick!

Truth be known, I just don't enjoy it like I did pre-mummy.

Warmest regards
Jessie

[Nan]

Hi everyone.
Does anyone else find it interesting that it is not advisable to drink whilst breastfeeding, but taking Neurofen is fine? On the Neurofen packet is says that they are okay for breastfeeding mums! Weird! (Especially given that they aren't okay for pregnant mums!)
Love,
Nan. xx

[Mother Duck]

Hello Nan

Very interesting. My first guess is 'probably because someone stands to make a buck out of it!' - I wonder what we can suss out about it. Any good web sites with refs out there??

[Jamily]

I don't think alcohol is a good idea throughout pregnancy at all - I really don't know much about FAS but the minute I found out I was pregnant (4 days after my period was due) I stopped drinking. However, I fell pregnant accidentally and therefore drank on at least 4 occasions while pregnant (3 - 4 glasses of wine) - I am naturally terrified that I have done damage already. I am now 34 weeks. Has anyone else had this experience? Some docs seem to think that the damage will be minimal because the embryo is not feeding off the mothers blood supply, but........

[BJelly]

Hi,

I just wanted to say that I drank socially when I was unknowingly pregnant - didn't find out until week 11 - I didn't get trashed, but there would have been several occasions I drank more than 3 glasses in a night. After I found out about my pregnancy I would just have a sip to taste when people were drinking wine. My daughter came out fine - she's a very healthy, alert, smiley baby.

I'm not saying it's ok to drink while pregnant, because I stopped as soon as I found out, but I'm worried that some people will feel guilty if they are like me, and didn't find out they were pregnant until some weeks in. Your child won't necessarily come out deformed if you had the odd drink.

[Mother Duck]

Hello there

Just a quick response to your point. The bubba is very well protected in this first stage, I think that you will find you have done no damage. But it is wonderful that you care so much about the little love in your belly as to worry!