when pat & shush loses effectiveness.

[miss_moe]

Background:
Up until about 7months we had fairly good results with a routine for bed. Book, lullaby, wrap (or part there of), rock to sleepy, then in cot for pat & shush.

Since she has been able to sit from laying down and stand in the cot this has become very difficult to get her to lay in the cot and we need rock her to basically asleep, otherwise she stands up... therein until we rock her to sleep.

Anyone got pointers to get her back on track ... she is now about 8.5months.

[Foxy]

Hi miss_moe,

Yes they do love to practice their new skills during the night!!

My DS also loves to play for ages before going to sleep, but I just leave him to it and eventually he just lies down and goes to sleep.

You don't mention if your little one cries if you leave the room with her still awake, but as you posted this in "No Cry" sleep solutions, I am assuming that she does.

You could try just sitting on the floor next to the cot, let her stand / sit or do whatever and just see if she does calm down by herself and get to sleep, she just might surprise you. You could then just move a bit further away from the cot each time until eg you are next to the door, and then leaving the room. It might take a while the first couple of nights but assuming your goal is for her to self-settle, it might be worth putting in the "hard yards" now.

Hope this works for you - good luck! :)

[Chickadee]

I patted and shushed as well (and am back to it again at 2 years old :rolleyes: ). From the very start at 3 months I would hold DD's shoulder lightly while patting. If she threw a cranky fit and wanted to thrash I would let her, but once she started to calm down I'd simply lay her back down on her side and hold her shoulder again. You could try doing this with your daughter. The idea is not to hold her down but more to encourage her to stay laying down and reassure her that you're still close. I always lay her facing away from me.

She got very good at self-settling and was happy in her cot, so at your daughters age I'd often just let her play with a toy or look at a few books on her own after I left the room. When she was ready she'd lay down and go to sleep without crying usually. You didn't say if your daughter was crying for you, but if she's not and is just standing and looking for you then I'd be tempted just to let her alone and see what happens.

[Crazy Monkey]

Dont really have any advice as I am going through the same thing with DS.. He use to have a bit of a play in his cot and then when he started crying I would go in wrap him and put some music on... This worked up until the time he started teething... NOW, I have to rock him to sleep.. Shushing and patting are just not working at the moment... I am hoping it is just a phase due to teething...

I still try the old routine every sleep time but it gets to a point where I know its not going to work and pick him up.. This is probably sending him mixed signals but I can stand to hear the screaming for too long.. The other night it was 45 minutes of constant screaming (and I mean screaming at the top of his lungs), with me in there trying to shush over the top of the screams....

Is it possible that your DD is teething???

I will be keeping an eye out for some tips too...

Good luck

[miss_moe]

thanks for your replies.

Shelbyville & MarthaM ... yes when she is tired & wanting to go to sleep she will cry if I leave. I am attempting to do a pick up / put down (when upset) and pat and shush while she is in the cot, helping her to lay down (at stay down), all with soothing words. We did this last night and I notice that she woke up upset a few times during the night so if it seems to have a negative effect I might leave it and reassess in a little. Anyway see how it goes. THanks

jacksmum05 ... yes we had teeth, hitting milestones (and the floor with learning to stand and cruise) stranger apprehension and two separate weeks away over the last 2months, so that is way I was ok with rocking her. These are now all settling down so I thought a good opportunity to try settling her back in the cot.

[Bronte'sMum]

We recently had a rough period of a few weeks after teeth, devt leaps , sicknbess and a holiday away all conincided. Shush and pat were so effective that it came as a bit of a shock. We tried the pick up/ put down method and I found myself often in there laying her back down about 23 times. Ughh. I actually found that she would then settle but the minute I started to leave the room she would start screaming in protest. It seemed that with this method she acatually quickly got worse and after a week or so she was waking about six times a night before she finally feel deeply asleep from exhaustion.

After Dh and I were both at the point of exhaustion I followed a friends advise and did a controlled comforting thing - God forbid- as I was so against ever letting her cry before. We would help her settle , then once settled go out, let cry for 1 min, then 2 mins next time etc. We never got beyond the two minute mark. Thank goodness as I hate the sound of her crying.

I know this is not for everyone but she is now sleeping like a dream again and her daytime sleep has improved.... and we're back to shush pat again which is lovely. I guess it was a controlled crying technique but with a few big differences - we would never let her cry uncontrollably for longer than the time designated , we always responded to her emotional cries ( versus her protest cries at us leaving).I think also as she is 12 mths old i felt better about doing it - would probably never do it with a baby under 6 months.

Don't know if this is right for you , and again I must say i really struggled with doing it at first as I was very anti any CC method but we are grateful to be sleeping again.


Good luck!

[Frances]

go to the website saveoursleep, you will find the link on bubhub, some of the material is free, some you have to pay for, I did it, it is legit, well worth you at least having a look, goodluck !

[miss_moe]

just popped in to update. Last night was the 3rd night of new technique and it took 10mins to put her to sleep - from 1hour the first night. First sleep this morning 12mins. It usually took 10-12min of rocking anyway.

Nights are better as she is next to our bed if she whimpers in her sleep I can shhhh or place my hand on her back and she settles.

The PU/PD method really resonated with me as someone who would not leave my child to cry (personal choice), it believes that leaving the room before a child sleeps (during the transition to a new technique) or when they are crying breaks their trust, especially for a baby under 12months, who hasn't gained full object permanence. (see below quote)

So I am pretty happy with the results. I think now I may begin to introduce a comforter (ole flanny nappy) so it will be easier when we are out-and-about or during the next few months when there will be 2 occassions where DP nor I will be here with her for her bedtime.


Bronte'sMum yes gosh knows how many times I have picked her up - my back and hamstrings say its more than a few.

Thanks Frances for the link, I have read a bit on Tizzies methods (in mags, her site and other forums) and while I was not comfortable with it I realise she has helped many people.

Thanks again for your replies

M




Q: Does this relate to the trust issue also, where you say, when you’re teaching sleep, never to leave your child for a minute?

T: Yes. Trust is broken when we leave our child, who is not fully capable of knowing where you have gone and you leave them alone to cry, even if it is for 5 minutes as suggested by some sleep books. And parents need to realize that all of this helps lay a foundation for the later months, say around 8 months when they start to experience separation anxiety.

Until around 12-18 months, a child does not have the mental capacity to realize that you will return. At around 8 months, they start to have enough memory recall to comprehend and trust that when you leave, you do return. So what you’re doing with pu/pd and being there to comfort your baby is building that trust, so when those later months come and you start to introduce words, saying “I’m going to the kitchen, you are safe, I will return,” and you keep your word, you can build on that trust.

[justinsmum]

I have read and used the "no-cry" solution when my son was 8 mths old. I can't handle CC. So, the "no-cry" solution helps me to wean him and sleep though the night before I went back to work. Now, he's 16 mths old, and he starts going to Child care. Then, he's at the stage being very clingy and need to pat to sleep. Last couple of night he wakes up as well. But I was able to pat him back to sleep. So, I guess I need to re-read the book and see if I can work up some solution.