Sunrise report on cloth v. disposible

[bekkyboo]

Its on at 8.15am this morning... They say there is new research in about what is better for the environment...



interesting...

[FourAngelKisses]

I'd be interested in seeing that, but I don't like my chances of getting the kids to turn Shrek 2 off for me, lol.

[Oscar's mum]

Hmmm why is it I think they are going to somehow make disposables sound better to justify themselves using disposables on their bubs.

[bekkyboo]

Thats what i was thinking.... And the fact they were sponsored by babylove....

[SilverStarfish]

Oh as soon as they mentioned it I was thinking... "Oh I can hear Bubhub heating up already!"

Nappies are one of those things that people are very polar about - either they are all for cloth (even Bubhub endorses the term "Cloth Nazi") or all for disposables. You don't find many people who are equally as passionate about both.

So it doesn't matter how accurate or scientific or well documented this "evidence" is going to be (or not). Half the population is never going to accept it, believe it, or change their ways because of it.

:)

[Pinkbug]

LOL I had already made two different posts about this! LOL Mods u can delete them if u wish! we can use this one as it has already started :D

[Tubbychook]

Considering that sunrise is asking us to reduce our green house emissions then they should be supporting the use of cloth nappies seeing the process involved in making disposables.

[Pinkbug]

Didn't really say much I expected more than that!

[SalTheGal]

I just watched most of it. And found it quite misinformed I thought- and yep rather biast towards disposables...........

I think we should all txt in this morning with interesting "cloth" facts!:)

[bekkyboo]

hehehe, i just emailed them the link to our MCN facts and other info!

[SalTheGal]

hehehe, i just emailed them the link to our MCN facts and other info!

Good work!!

[Pinkbug]

:yelclap:

[Snugglepot]

I knew there was a reason I did not watch sunrise, koche is an opinionated so and so!

[veve]

I knew there was a reason I did not watch sunrise, koche is an opinionated so and so!

yup .. and that is ok .. if you AGREE with his opinion .. :laughing:

I didn't watch it.. I'm over sunrise .. I used to love it! .. now I find it nauseating .. last year the clothies (lots of WAHMs) tried to inform sunrise of the options that were out there .. the ONLY cloth brand they showed .. was the EENIE brand .. which .. FUNNILY enough .. Koshie ALSO promoted on his business show (sigh) .. so obviously money and advertising was involved - not just news and actual information :( .. made me angry ..

and .. for all those cherubs kiss fans out there .. Lesley even made a SUNRISE nappy for them .. and sent it FREE .. and they ignored it .. no air time .. no response .. NOTHING ..

two words .. poo heads ... sigh ..

(who would ignore a FREE cloth nappy??? freaks)

xx
Jen

[becstar]

They talked about soaking....who soaks?!?! What a load of rubbish.

I think we all need to email them AGAIN i know its been done before and they didnt listen.....never do. they just want to justify their use of sposies once again with a study from the UK. They use dryers!!! We use the good old aussie sun!!! And what about the manfucaturing process of making sposies!?

oh and as for only 5% of the population using cloth? is that true? where do they get those stats from? I know heaps of people using cloth!!!

grrr

[Tinydancer]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22014238-5009760,00.html

Heres a link to probably the same thing. Cant watch sunrise here.... start work at 6.30am.

This article backs up with no facts/ figures or anything like that.

Hrmm... perhaps if someone on the news told me that a new study shows chocolate wouldnt make me fat id believe that too............ just because they said so.

ETA: GRRRR........

[our little treasures]

Considering that sunrise is asking us to reduce our green house emissions then they should be supporting the use of cloth nappies seeing the process involved in making disposables.

I actually heard this on the morning news driving hubby to work. No babylove sponsors for the radio news! Well it's in they say they are both the same in the damage done to the enviroment! So it doesn't matter if they are supporting the green house emissions because they are both as bad as each other:thumbsup:

[Billy]

and .. for all those cherubs kiss fans out there .. Lesley even made a SUNRISE nappy for them .. and sent it FREE .. and they ignored it .. no air time .. no response .. NOTHING ..

two words .. poo heads ... sigh ..

(who would ignore a FREE cloth nappy??? freaks)

xx
Jen


:eek: Oh. My. God. That is really bad. Now have lost any minuscule amount of respect I had for sunrise to begin with. HOW could they not at least even SHOW the nappy???? :confused: :thumbsdown:


I am glad I didn't see the report, because as usual it was obviously biased. *Where the hell is eye rolling man when you need him???*

[HoopDeeDoo]

:banghead:

Oh well won't they feel silly when they are late to the nappy party

[Tinydancer]

The radio station might not be sponsored by Babylove but the person that wrote the original report and released it to the public was!! The radio station was just reporting on what everyone else is reporting on.

:detective:

Marketing at its lowest......... :banghead: . So many people are going to take that information as gospel...... just because it was on the news.

Give me real facts and explain exactly how disposables are just as bad as cloth, then ill believe it.

Geeze bubs isnt even born yet and im already addicted to getting my fluffy mail :D. ha ha.

[becstar]

I actually heard this on the morning news driving hubby to work. No babylove sponsors for the radio news! Well it's in they say they are both the same in the damage done to the enviroment! So it doesn't matter if they are supporting the green house emissions because they are both as bad as each other:thumbsup:

But the report they used is based in the UK and doesnt say wether its based on terry flats or MCN...you dont use much water with MCN because you don't soak. In the UK they also use dryers where as most of us in Australia dry in the good old aussie sun.......

they also didnt mention the manufacturing process of sposies.

[3cherubs]

I heard on the radio a day or so ago that in a study that was done. That cloth is no better than disposables, due to having to wash them (water usage, power etc)..
Well forget about all the land fill produced by sposies :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

I have not watched Sunrise in ages beacause they think they are the tops and Mel never stops smiling...

[Billy]

they also didnt mention the manufacturing process of sposies.


YES!!! How is it that this gets ignored in every report??? :confused: How do people think sposies appear? Do they just grow somewhere using no chemicals or water in the process??? Grrrrr... LOL *Eye rolling man is sadly missed from my posts today* :D

[Pippi Longstocking]

YES!!! How is it that this gets ignored in every report??? :confused: How do people think sposies appear? Do they just grow somewhere using no chemicals or water in the process??? Grrrrr... LOL *Eye rolling man is sadly missed from my posts today* :D

They are just folded out of paper origami style donchaknow! *furious rolling of eyes*

*sigh* I resent cr@pola justification being presented as scientific "study". It insults my intelligence.

[HoopDeeDoo]

the sad part is how many mums out there who are believing this crapola

[Tinydancer]

Its an independant study.

So long as its not life threatening, an independant study can use any medium they choose to write a report. Its easy to make a report on cloth vs sposies sound good if your compeditors dont have the chance to defend themselves.

Grr again........

[Billy]

They are just folded out of paper origami style donchaknow! *furious rolling of eyes*

*sigh* I resent cr@pola justification being presented as scientific "study". It insults my intelligence.

Ohhh that's how it's done eh? :p


But you know if you think about it, 95% of people (according to the 'study') use disposables. That can be assumed around 95% of the people who do the research etc use sposies too. So I guess in all likeliness, clothies are never going to get a fair go. :thumbsdown:

(Unless we do our own study and build a multimillion dollar company to promote our report... *sigh*)

*insert you know who here* ;)

[Tubbychook]

The radio station might not be sponsored by Babylove but the person that wrote the original report and released it to the public was!! The radio station was just reporting on what everyone else is reporting on.

:detective:

Marketing at its lowest......... :banghead: . So many people are going to take that information as gospel...... just because it was on the news.

Give me real facts and explain exactly how disposables are just as bad as cloth, then ill believe it.

Geeze bubs isnt even born yet and im already addicted to getting my fluffy mail :D. ha ha.

My thoughts exactly. Cloth nappies would have about the same effect as everyday clothes. I really think these studies are done by people paid buy the disposable companies. I am ashamed to admit until 2 months ago i was a disposable user only because i foolishly thought that cloth nappies were flat nappies that needed soaking washing seperatly folding and were just as bad for the enviroment as sposies. I have seen the light.

[Lila]

emailed them too....

[Pippi Longstocking]

Can someone please PM me the email addy? I know I could just google but...well, I'm lazy. :D

[Lila]

i just went on sunrise 7 and then email-
they do have a fill in form for emailing....

[SilverStarfish]

Considering that sunrise is asking us to reduce our green house emissions then they should be supporting the use of cloth nappies seeing the process involved in making disposables.

Yes, that's certainly a valid argument. A lot of energy IS put into the production of disposibles.

But there is an environmental cost in making cloth nappies too. The cloth started out as a plant which needed irrigation - cotton farming, for example (and yes I know not all MCN are made of cotton) has an absolutely devastating impact on our environment.

The plants had to be harvested, transported and processed - each of these steps creating greenhouse gas emissions. Petrol/fuel for the machinery, electricity, lighting, heating.

After manufacturing the cloth needs to be transported again several times to different places and eventually made into the nappies themselves - all this takes energy as well.

And not all MCN are made from "natural" materials and fibres either. Think about the environmental costs in manufacturing the polyurethane that goes into your PUL or the petrochemicals that are used to make micorfibre.

Obviously this still isn't going to change the minds of all you 'cloth nazi' (meant in the most affectionate way :)) and that's not my intention at all.

Yuh, disposables are bad for the environment. That's a no brainer. So are most disposable things. But cloth nappies are not without a significant environmental cost either, and I think this is what that "research" on Sunrise was getting at this morning.

[Pippi Longstocking]

But there is an environmental cost in making cloth nappies too. The cloth started out as a plant which needed irrigation - cotton farming, for example (and yes I know not all MCN are made of cotton) has an absolutely devastating impact on our environment.

The plants had to be harvested, transported and processed - each of these steps creating greenhouse gas emissions. Petrol/fuel for the machinery, electricity, lighting, heating.

After manufacturing the cloth needs to be transported again several times to different places and eventually made into the nappies themselves - all this takes energy as well.



All of the above also needs to occur for the production of disposables only on a much larger scale because the nappies are thrown away after one use!!

[Billy]

All of the above also needs to occur for the production of disposables only on a much larger scale because the nappies are thrown away after one use!!

:yes:

[reAllytee]

Why does this not suprise me *sigh*

[ziggie]

Oh YIPPEEE!!!! :smiliedance: I missed it. Glad I did after reading this.
Just like every other 'factual, information and news providing' show on telly, it's all one sided.

Don't worry ladies, WE know that WE'RE doing the RIGHT thing for the environment, and that's all that matters.

We need to remember that our babies NEED nappies (unless you're trying out EC, of course) and no amount of arguing will show that sposies are better for the environment than cloth. The way they produce cloth compared to the way they produce sposies is the better of two evils, when it comes to environment.

All we need to do is keep trying to convert, and keep speaking the facts :D .

[KarniF00l]

Nicely put Sarah! :yelclap:


Grrr.. why doesn't this surprise me. Glad I didn't watch it, I would have been hooking things at the T.V. :laughing: What peevs me off more is that I'm now sure a lot of people would have fell for that and believed it.

[veve]

They are just folded out of paper origami style donchaknow! *furious rolling of eyes*

omg!! you mean .. they DONT grow on trees!!??? :eek: :laughing:


Obviously this still isn't going to change the minds of all you 'cloth nazi' (meant in the most affectionate way ) and that's not my intention at all.

oh hugs faeml

I'm happy with my bubhub title :D .. and no .. wont change MY mind .. because .. water use??? water runs in cycles .. yes we have a drought now .. the drought WILL pass ... LANDFILL on the otherhand??? is there for AT LEAST our lifetime .. I think I read that a standard sposie takes 400 FOUR HUNDRED years to break down .. that is a long time .. and every day more sposies are added to the pile ..

for me .. there is no question .. and no stinking bias report from sunrise will change my opinion :p

xx
Jen

[Tubbychook]

Ziggies Star is right our bubs do need nappies just like they need clothes, we also need clothes too (i think there are laws that make us wear them) the same process is used to make material to make clothes that is used to make the material used to make cloth nappies most nappies are made out of the same materials that our clothes are made out of.

[becstar]

And something that is re-used again and again and again and again and again etc (and then passed on to another baby to be used again and again....) instead of being used once and thrown away has got to be better for the environment. Even taken into consideration the manufacture of materials for MCN. You can dilute the environmental cost of manufacture of MCN materials by however many times they are used.......wheras you can't do that with a sposie only used once.

[Oscar's mum]

Well I emailed and perhaps I should have actually taken a moment to breathe and re read what I wrote as I accused them of being no better journalists than the ones that report in the celeb trash magazines:o

[TyBean]

gees why does it not surprise me!!... *rolly eyes man goes here*

[Billy]

Well I emailed and perhaps I should have actually taken a moment to breathe and re read what I wrote as I accused them of being no better journalists than the ones that report in the celeb trash magazines:o

I am so glad you did :yelclap: - because they have proven time and time again that this is the case :yes: ;)

[Lila]

Well I emailed and perhaps I should have actually taken a moment to breathe and re read what I wrote as I accused them of being no better journalists than the ones that report in the celeb trash magazines:o
LOVE It...:laughing:

well, you know sometimes i guess it´s true....
think aobut NELSON.....:laughing:

[Ana Gram]

Well I emailed and perhaps I should have actually taken a moment to breathe and re read what I wrote as I accused them of being no better journalists than the ones that report in the celeb trash magazines:o

I wouldn't worry about it too much. That isn't an accusation, it's true.

I personally can't believe that people actually watch that show.

[Can I?]

Well......let's do it. Let's get the facts and crunch the numbers ourselves yeah? Where shall we start?

Literature review:

We need past articles comparing cloth to disposables. Current production stats and processes for disposables (biodegradable and other). Forestry costs and inputs. Information on where our hemp and bamboo is produced as well as information on how it is grown. Processing of bamboo/hemp. We would have to have some information about transport. Covers? - what do most people use? We could do PUL and wool I guess.

Anyone want to join me? We are intelligent women, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has some background in science.....let's get into it.

[becstar]

Id help out but I have no idea where to start. lol......tell me what to do and I will do it.....:yes:

[mishlc]

Half the population is never going to accept it, believe it, or change their ways because of it.

:)

I actually read a thing in a local Child paper about the other alternative, using nothing. A lady had written in to say she used nothing. From birth! The first few days she held a cloth nappy around bub but once she knew how to read his "signs" of needing to go it was all good and she said she did for bub 2 aswell and by 14mths they were both toilet trained! Aparently your baby can give signals wqhen they need to go and she must have made it look easy enough because apparently she got all her friends onto it and it was a success.

Personally, I don't think I'd have the patience or time to watch my bub that much to be able to teach myself to distinguish the "look" but good luck to her, it is obviously the better choice.....?

[Susan Mac]

hmmm.... 95% use disposables. I think even that stat is a little skewiff.
What that figure is actually saying is that 5% of parents never use disposables at all. I use disposables, but only for when we go out - and that's about to change now that I've discovered MCNs!
I tend to not trust anything that comes through the media, especially not television. It is usually biased in favour of advertising and ratings - breakfast television and current affairs are the worst! I only watch them because DS is too big for reading a book while I feed him now, and tv is somewhat more interesting than the wall.

[kymmy]

I didn't watch Sunrise but read the article in the Herald Sun. Are they going by the new study? Based in the UK? Where is the study so I can read it?

[gremily]

I actually read a thing in a local Child paper about the other alternative, using nothing. A lady had written in to say she used nothing. From birth! The first few days she held a cloth nappy around bub but once she knew how to read his "signs" of needing to go it was all good and she said she did for bub 2 aswell and by 14mths they were both toilet trained! Aparently your baby can give signals wqhen they need to go and she must have made it look easy enough because apparently she got all her friends onto it and it was a success.

It's called Elimination Communication. If you have a look in the Natural Parenting section there are some fantastic threads on ECing.


hmmm.... 95% use disposables. I think even that stat is a little skewiff.
What that figure is actually saying is that 5% of parents never use disposables at all. I use disposables, but only for when we go out - and that's about to change now that I've discovered MCNs!

This is an article that was in Choice magazine:

Disposables the popular choice

The debate about cloth vs disposable nappies has been raging for years but it looks as though the decision is very firmly in the direction of disposable.

* Currently about 95% of parents in Australia use disposable nappies — up from 89% in 2001.
* The average baby using normal disposable nappies can create over 700 kg of solid waste.
* This waste will probably go into landfill and take up to 400 years to break down.

No clear environmental winner

Old-fashioned cloth nappies don’t necessarily hold all the solutions.
There’s plenty of issues around energy and water consumption when washing them.

A recent study conducted by the UK Government Environment Agency assessed the entire lifecycle of the environmental impacts of disposable nappies, home-laundered cloth nappies and commercial cloth
nappy services. This study found there were no significant differences between any of the environmental impacts, and that overall no system clearly had a better or worse environmental impact.

An independent Life Cycle Assessment of nappies under Brisbane conditions was conducted by the University of Queensland. This study found:

* Cloth nappies use more water.
* Disposables use more energy and create landfill.
* There’s so much variation in how nappies are used by parents that the environmental impact is almost impossible to determine.

With water shortages in Australia and different climates zones that may or may not be suitable for air-drying cloth nappies, it seems the jury is still out on the best way to go. It may be different in different areas.

[gremily]

OzCloth blog regarding the recent misrepresentation in the press:
http://ozclothnappies.wordpress.com/2007/07/04/heres-the-latest-news-on-the-cloth-vs-single-use-nappy-debate-again/

[Sheer Bliss]

I didn't watch Sunrise but read the article in the Herald Sun. Are they going by the new study? Based in the UK? Where is the study so I can read it?

ditto - why must they assume we are all stupid fools who beleive everything we read. If this report is so great - give us more info to make up our own minds about the accuracy of the study. IMO any study can prove everything - ie Everyone who ate carrots in the 1700's are now dead - therefore carrots are deadly. It just depends on the spin you put on it, that study proves that if you eat carrots you will die. Taken out of context it's a dangerous statement to make.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: to Koshie.

Also, i e-mailed choice after their article came out, asking to consider a study using MCN - they politely declined saying it doesn't generate enough interest to warrant their time. :no:

[tanni_83]

Why cant they do a study based in our own country?

What does the UK have to do with Australia's use of disposable nappies and the landfil here? Id like to see that study one day :rolleyes: If it has been done, can someone point me in the right direction :fingerscrossed:

[tanni_83]

ie Everyone who ate carrots in the 1700's are now dead - therefore carrots are deadly.

:laughing: :laughing: i know this is a serious thread, but that comment just cracked me up...maybe its pregnancy but i lmao!!!

[tanni_83]

Also, i e-mailed choice after their article came out, asking to consider a study using MCN - they politely declined saying it doesn't generate enough interest to warrant their time. :no:

OOOH, that is very sad :thumbsdown:

[kymmy]

Well I found the study online but it seems its only accessible by the UK Govt. via a password. :confused:

I agree its like someone says "Yeah its all right *passes Huggies some 'conclusion'* use disposables its just the same as using cloth environmentally"

[waawa]

Well I found the study online but it seems its only accessible by the UK Govt. via a password. :confused:

drop me an email, i have a copy.
lara at ozclothnappies dot org

[kymmy]

drop me an email, i have a copy.
lara at ozclothnappies dot org
Ta!